In May 2007, this 15-year Windows veteran replaced his old, beloved, XP-powered Vaio with a newer Vaio that came with Windows Vista Business installed. Practically overnight, he told me, his experience went from “awesome” to “awful.” The experience was so terrible, in fact, that after several months of struggling he finally surrendered, putting his $2500 Windows notebook in storage and replacing it with a MacBook last summer.
At first glance, Jeremy’s machine is Exhibit A in the case against Windows Vista. As Jeremy documented in a series of posts, this gorgeous machine was ugly in action: slow to start, sluggish when performing everyday tasks, crash-prone, and overloaded with annoying and unwanted software. But is it really a hopeless case, or was this system done in by the rush to market and a sloppy OEM integration?
At first glance, Jeremy’s machine is Exhibit A in the case against Windows Vista. As Jeremy documented in a series of posts, this gorgeous machine was ugly in action: slow to start, sluggish when performing everyday tasks, crash-prone, and overloaded with annoying and unwanted software. But is it really a hopeless case, or was this system done in by the rush to market and a sloppy OEM integration?
After he sent me his Vaio in early March, I blew away all traces of the old installation and set up a pristine copy of Windows Vista Business, with up-to-date drivers and zero crapware. This screen shot shows the blizzard of dialog boxes and icons that are part of the original, unpleasant experience. The initial results were eye-opening and impressive. After my makeover, this machine was every bit as fast as its specs said it should have been.
Vista doesn’t suck. But when you shovel Windows Vista and a mountain of poorly chosen drivers, utilities, and trial programs onto that beautiful hardware without thinking of the customer, the results can be downright ugly. That was certainly the case with the early-2007 vintage Vaio, and it’s still true today, with too much crapware and not enough attention to quality or the user experience.
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First thing which I did with both my laptop and desktop (both OEM) was to completely blatt them and install them without crapware.
Smarter to say: It's a shame most people CAN'T remove all the OEM crapware because they don't know how to, all laptop makers need to understand that they ruin their own business like that.
It's not "Vista" OEM software, it's Sony OEM software. And installing XP clean instead of Vista would accomplish nothing different. Both would be clean installations.
all the time i remember receiving dell laptops at work (xp days), and it would have 70 to 80 processes running. it was rediculous. it was faster to give it a clean wipe & install xp than it was to try and remove half of that ****. a clean xp install wasnt even 20 processes.
Well said, and exactly what's been happening all along with vista, bad publicity and B.S. OEM builds.
Yeah ok. So, for instance, the disk thrashing caused by Vista's built-in "features" is the fault of OEMs too? Why is it after you turn them off the disk thrashing stops?
Yeah ok. So, for instance, the disk thrashing caused by Vista's built-in "features" is the fault of OEMs too? Why is it after you turn them off the disk thrashing stops?
I can't say that I've ever had that issue. The search was built the first couple of days but other than that, no thrashing here.
Yeah ok. So, for instance, the disk thrashing caused by Vista's built-in "features" is the fault of OEMs too? Why is it after you turn them off the disk thrashing stops?
Toad, I have read many posts by yourself and usually they are very accurate, Please let me interject the "disk thrashing issue" you mentioned is done via the indexing feature in Vista. Some users with less powerful hardware and most importantly insufficient memory (physical) in their machines that causes it to seek longer is one of the major issues people find with Vista's indexing feature.
I currently have 3 GB of ram, yes and thats not even the top of the heap. I have run Vista on 2 GB of ram on an old P4 3.0 H/T and it ran nicely. Not blazingly fast, but respectable. My hard drive rarely is seeking for anything which is one of the features in Vista is to utilize memory so the OS can repsond faster. When working on a sufficiently powered system it will work. I'm not saying Vista is perfect, I am happy yes, but it still has work. I say Let me reap the rewards of progress, some blunders along the way, but better off.
Yeah ok. So, for instance, the disk thrashing caused by Vista's built-in "features" is the fault of OEMs too? Why is it after you turn them off the disk thrashing stops?
Define, trashing...your hardrive light being on all the time?
Well if you actually bothered going to the reliablity monitor in vista, you would see that the bandwidth is about 100kbps.
Unless you have some ancient 1rpm hardrive, 100kbps is NOTHING and is in absolutely no way considered trashing for even a 5400 rpm hardrive.
So please....quit the FUD that has been disproved a billion times over? And no don't post that youtube video...because if actually look closely it shows the bandwidth being about 32kbps.
Maybe average Joe should learn the basic of computers and Windows and the world would be much better.
If you really can't do it, you probably know a wiz who will help you with your computer.
Reformatting your hard disk is hardly "basics of computers". Besides, this has nothing to do with how simple/difficult it is to reformat your hard drive. I/you/they paid for a computer with Microsoft Windows Vista installed, why should I/you/they then have to go out and purchase a fresh copy of Vista to remove the crapware?
Reformatting your hard disk is hardly "basics of computers". Besides, this has nothing to do with how simple/difficult it is to reformat your hard drive. I/you/they paid for a computer with Microsoft Windows Vista installed, why should I/you/they then have to go out and purchase a fresh copy of Vista to remove the crapware?
Agreed, it's total arrogance to think that just because it's easy and/or "basic" to us that it's basic or easy for the average person. The average Joe wouldn't be on this site writing comments.
The average Joe, especially if they're fairly new to computers probably knows little more than how to turn the machine on and off and run the few programs they run. Formatting a drive is more of a system admin job for a "techie", and the Average Joe isn't, nor are they likely to WANT to be a "techie". They just want to use the PC.
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I do agree though it's pretty ridiculous how much crapware OEMs install, the first time I used Vista was on a brand new Inspiron 1520 and it was a horrible experience from first boot - wireless took about 5 minutes to turn on, applications took forever to load and opening IE for the first time locked up the whole system (norton toolbar probably). After re-installing Vista minus crapware though it runs perfect, and has done ever since.
I'll probably have to switch to Vista at some point, but hopefully by then it's the sleek OS that we were promised (fingers crossed for SP2), and not the stumbling piece of crap it is today.
So the average Joe, unless he's willing to go out and buy a second copy of Vista, has no real way to GET that machine down to a crapware free clean install unless he's savvy and willing enough to grab a pirated copy of Vista off the net he can use his serial code with. And if he's THAT savvy, he's not quite your average Joe anymore.
At the computer store, where i work, we sell a lot of laptops, mainly Toshiba and HP.
I don't understand why the heck Toshiba and HP are fully loaded with bloatware that a normal person will never use.
Do i need a program to manage my wireless connections? Windows Vista manages that well enough, even Windows XP manages it well so why do i need that? I don't like vista, but still i use it because it will be the future. Thank god i bought a macbook pro. Every laptop i've opened and configured i feel like formating and installing it everything. It's a shame to the end user to get a 2000€ laptop with performance of a 1000€ laptop just because it has over 80 processes running and a Trial antivirus software that most people will never "activate" (it's ridiculous but true lol).I even received complainants about that from our costumers and i had to explain them why it happens. I've made some OEM installation kit to the machines we build and i feel that the machines response are far superior than the major trademarks out there.
But still... it's the end user who decides...
I don't want to start a flame war and i know it's "different" but a Windows installation on a Mac it's far superior than the regular machine we can buy out there. (i'm not talking about custom build machines).
Putting that aside, i don't think the average Joe will spend 2000€ or 2500€ on a laptop...
I don't understand why the heck Toshiba and HP are fully loaded with bloatware that a normal person will never use.
I have to disagree with you on the HP/Compaq remark my HP desktop and Compaq Laptop came with very little preinstalled software, the vast majority of icons on the desktop are links to websites
I don't understand why the heck Toshiba and HP are fully loaded with bloatware that a normal person will never use.
I have to disagree with you on the HP/Compaq remark my HP desktop and Compaq Laptop came with very little preinstalled software, the vast majority of icons on the desktop are links to websites
Yes, i know HP puts very little programs but still... there are some utilities that are just worthless and take up resources.
SUUUUUUURE!, so a 15 year old windows veteran will jump from vista to macbook cause a unstable system and in the same step, changing every software (and documents) that used in those 15 years.
I had my Dell E1505 (which is now 3 years old) about a week before I blew everything off and clean installed XP.
I'm running Vista on it, with SP1, which was a clean install, and it is just as fast as XP was. Of course, I had to install
an extra gig of ram to bring it to that point, but, still, a clean install is better than the bloatware that the OEM's throw
on you.
XP on XP Hardware = Great
Vista on XP hardware = Nightmare
Vista with Vista hardware is better than XP
Simple as that.
OEM crapware and their old hardware. Sure under XP the hardware would be fine but to put Vista on old hardware thats not good enough for Vista just to get rid of it is greedy.
Inexcusable.
Most do it - toshiba being especially bad.
But in all seriousness, it is insane how much crap these manufactures install on new computers. Whenever a friend gets a new computer I get to spend a good bit of time to remove all the crap and install cleanup programs and/or updates.
And yes, I believe that it tarnishes peoples perception of if Vista is better than XP. Think about it, a bloated Vista vs tweaked XP...humm
Clean XP vs Vista with some anti-spyshit software and stupid AV and there is no need to think about which one will win.
Making the PC by yourself, choosing every part, and choosing Vista Ultimate will give you the best experience. Only money will be the problem.
I've been using Vista Business 32-bit, and Vista Ultimate 64-bit for a year with no problems. But, last month I bought a Compaq to use for watching movies I rented or bought from iTune in the living room; it cam with Vista Home Premium. The machine was so loaded with crap, I promptly pulled out my 64-bit Vista disk (from my Ultimate package) and reinstalled it as Home Premium 64-bit, even removing the recovery partition Compaq left on the drive.
What ever happen to the days when OEMs like Gateway 2K and Dell would just give you a clean install and include the crapware on a separate CD... The crapware manufactures pay good money to get their snake oil on your computer today... big money.
This included new processor, new graphics card, mobo, HDD etc. As part of this process, i decided finally to invest in a copy of Vista Home Premium (OEM) version. This was installed by myself as a clean install.
I have to say that this went flawlessly. New 8600 Asus silent PCI-X, 2GB ram, 320 GB SATA HDD, AMD 64 X2 6000+, ASUS SLI-32 Deluxe Wireless MOBO. The whole system runs smmothly. No hang ups, no slowness, no errors, the only incompatible software was Nero 6 - but i was planning on upgrading this anyway.
On the Vista rating system (0-5.9) my system comes out as 5.4! What more can i say.
So far - i have no complaints about this OS - the only thing is - i got the wrong version - i should have gone for the Ultimate instead of Home Premium (changed fro XP-Pro) - Ooops!
I would completely agree with the original comments - Bloatware is the root of the problems and not Vista.
I ordered a Dell laptop last year. It came with Vista and a metric tonne of crapware that I didn't want or need.
After reformatting and putting on my software, it runs great.
When I talk to people who complain about how slow Vista seems it always seems to be the same people. Either people who installed Vista on top of XP, or those who bought a new machine from Dell/Gateway/etc.
Vista works much better on a clean install.
T
That aside, I think OEMs have gone too far with bundling crapware on machines. It's bad enough that stuff gets bundled at all, but to cause issues with the operating system itself is too much. Now, that's not to say that all of Windows Vista's criticism is from crapware, but surely it makes up a big chunk of it. That and driver issues.
I've had a few laptops with XP on and crapware, like an IBM 700Mhz, My current 1.5Ghz, hell my 500Mhz toshiba is running xp embedded and they all run super-fast even with the crapware (not the toshiba obvesly) whereas at college we have some HP pcs with pista business on them, they are dual core 2 pcs at 2.2Ghz, 2GB RAM and good specs, they have no crap-ware and have got to be the slowest piles of complete shat I have ever used, not even windows 3.11 compares, 3.11 actually beats is, going from windows 95 > pista is a downgrade and should be made illegal, what a joke OS it is
In college, eh? I find that hard to believe, when you obviously haven't mastered rudimentary spelling and grammar. If you’re of college age (I’d guess more like 15), you probably haven't even used Windows 3.1. You hardly seem qualified to make such an analysis. Oh, and calling it "pista" [sic] is neither clever nor functional.
Yeh and err noticed how we have an excess of 200-700Mhz PCs that are being sent to LEDCs because they are way to old and slow for us (not me, I still have all mine and use them ^_^) but yeh, you show me how you can call pista enviromentially friendly for old PCs or basically any PC in LEDCs, oh yeh wait it isn't which is a ****ing disgrace, XP would just about work on most of them, pista wont even install to any of them, corporate whores at MS have abandoned the world, which is why people are abandoning them
Not everybody has the time, inclination or knowledge to set up their own PC, so why bag on those that aren't as "cool" as you?
And a long as you actually look at the available options buying from Dell/HP/etc. you will know EXACTLY what's in a prebuilt too
impossible
but to the point. usually whenever a friend buys a new pc i'll help him/her put it together and make sure everything works. Then we turn on the pc, I point out how long it takes a brand new computer to bootup, update the bios and firmware and format/reinstall. people are absolutely amazed at the before and after. then we throw away the OEM disk and trial stuff
Someone that runs a bulldozer eight hours a day for fifteen years doesn't necessarily know how to repair one because he probably doesn't care to. The same is true with your typical computer operator, which is what the majority of computer users are, today. We on Neowin are in the minority that are truly passionate about their machines and computing in general. It's not just a tool to us!
Microsoft perhaps needs another program like the Vista capable sort of thing, say for an example "Vista premium hardware" or something like that. Microsoft would work VERY closely with third parties ensuring a exceptional experience by tightly intergrating designated hardware with their latest os (in this case vista). So sort of taking the apple method of controlling the hardware and software a little.
Now i know that the whole point of Microsoft Windows and DOS was that it could run on any IBM compatible PC. This they have done, but a market has now sprung up which has taken a negative advantage and is providing the end user with a negative experience. This is giving Microsoft a really bad image. Ive used vista and personally don't like it, however like XP there's nothing worse than purchasing a computer with so much **** on it that you have to reinstall the os, before even using it.
As for comments suggesting that end users should know how to do this, i disagree. The only thing i would want an end user to know how to do, is to restore the computer from restore disks after the computer perhaps gets mucked up. No user advanced or not should have to reinstall windows + drivers they scavange from the internet. I know that it only takes say half a day to reinstall the OS + Drivers, but this is insane. How many other items (quite expensive items to boot) do you buy knowing that in all probability that you will have to wipe it and reload it straight from the supplier, it's insane.
The other matter is that a lot of users usually have to purchase another licence to reinstall windows as the licence for the laptop only covers Manufacturer OEM media and not retail or newegg/dabs.com oem off the shelf media.
The argument for this **** software is that it lowers the cost of the equipment as these **** pieces of software are sponsoring a lower cost. However this is a stupid method of lowering the price. As it has been said above by other posters, this is giving microsoft a negative image and it's giving the manufacturers a negative image. How likely is a user gonna recommend Sony's when the last sony they brought was a slow piece of ****. All it's doing is messing up the brand image of sony and pushing those users to mac's.
Microsoft needs to gain control over how it's software is provided to it's customers, very quickly!!!
Microsoft used to control what OEMs did with Windows, but thanks to Microsoft's bitter competitors, the United States Department of Justice, and other governments worldwide, Microsoft was forced to remove those restrictions from OEM contracts.
Your tax dollars at work. You might as well send your paycheck directly to AOL's lawyers. In the end, that's basically where it all goes.
Microsoft perhaps needs another program like the Vista capable sort of thing, say for an example "Vista premium hardware" or something like that. Microsoft would work VERY closely with third parties ensuring a exceptional experience by tightly intergrating designated hardware with their latest os (in this case vista). So sort of taking the apple method of controlling the hardware and software a little.
Now i know that the whole point of Microsoft Windows and DOS was that it could run on any IBM compatible PC. This they have done, but a market has now sprung up which has taken a negative advantage and is providing the end user with a negative experience. This is giving Microsoft a really bad image. Ive used vista and personally don't like it, however like XP there's nothing worse than purchasing a computer with so much **** on it that you have to reinstall the os, before even using it.
As for comments suggesting that end users should know how to do this, i disagree. The only thing i would want an end user to know how to do, is to restore the computer from restore disks after the computer perhaps gets mucked up. No user advanced or not should have to reinstall windows + drivers they scavange from the internet. I know that it only takes say half a day to reinstall the OS + Drivers, but this is insane. How many other items (quite expensive items to boot) do you buy knowing that in all probability that you will have to wipe it and reload it straight from the supplier, it's insane.
The other matter is that a lot of users usually have to purchase another licence to reinstall windows as the licence for the laptop only covers Manufacturer OEM media and not retail or newegg/dabs.com oem off the shelf media.
The argument for this **** software is that it lowers the cost of the equipment as these **** pieces of software are sponsoring a lower cost. However this is a stupid method of lowering the price. As it has been said above by other posters, this is giving microsoft a negative image and it's giving the manufacturers a negative image. How likely is a user gonna recommend Sony's when the last sony they brought was a slow piece of ****. All it's doing is messing up the brand image of sony and pushing those users to mac's.
Microsoft needs to gain control over how it's software is provided to it's customers, very quickly!!!
For me, the thing I hated the most from the Windows Vista world is the approach taken by HP and the likes, whom, rather than give a proper operating system installation cd to allow a fresh install, they force you to create a restoration CD where by you have absolutely no choice over what you can restore (and what you don't).
Now, don't get me wrong, I can understand including some *FULL VERSION* of applications to make life easier, but the stuff included is ****, plain ****. I don't want oberon media trial versions of crap I'll never purchase, I don't want Norton jumping up and down like a ****ing chawawa every 5 minutes over 'join up now', 'pay now', 'you need protection'.
With that being said, I'm on a MacBook, I love every inch of the machine. Now, looking at how things are in OpenSolaris, Linux and *BSD land; within 2-3 years, I might be back, but I won't be running Windows. Microsoft and their 'screw you' attitude to UNIX people like me, have driven people like me away from their platform. They've chosen to dumb it down so much that it makes a fisher price toy look like a friggin super computer. Eventually they are going to start ****ing off mainstream users as well with this project of dumbing down.
Wrong. Exactly who do you think the average user is? The mainstream users are the same fsckers we drive with on the road every day. You know- the ones that drive slow in the passing lane, never use their turn signals, talk on the cell phone while driving erratically. The mainstream user is the person who has a typical MySpace page- a clusterfsck of ahorrible color scheme, unreadable text because of an ugly background, annoying music blaring, animated GIFs everywhere, and a senseless stream of "HI!" and "Just saying hello!" messages from friends down the side.
Every time you think about who mainstream users are, think of these people. Dumbing it down won't turn them off!
Second mistake: was too stupid to do a HDD wipe and reinstall.
Third mistake: was born.
Fourth mistake: bought a Crapbook.
i've had friends of friends i have never met ship their dell's to my house
to pay me to wipe it out and put xp back on fresh.
i still think Vista sucks oem crapware or not
I could make a huuuuge list of complaints i have with Vista
as in problems that are replicatable or can be verified
but that really wouldnt make any diff now would it lol
We all know fanatical fanboys cling to their delusional fantasy world
They dont realise that by condoning poor releases they (fanboys)
will wind up beeing the major cause of MS's inevitable downfall
The microsoft mantra is obviously "just buy better hardware"
in what other industry is this attitude acceptable ?
i like to imagine what things would be like if MS made the decision
long ago to make the focus Performance rather than
ramming features/functions that they TELL me i want down my throat
MS is no better than the crapware installed on oem drives around the world
Now.. if you would like to cross my bridge i need you to answer three questions.
Every time i got a vista computer, i reformat using my unattended installations that install drivers, programs and other stuff. Every single time, the perception about vista changes significantly, no matter that personal preference about XP or Vista...
I agree, MS should make an effort to stop OEMs and the plague of trials/crapware they bundle with MS OS's, be it Vista now and XP earlier.
Taking personal taste aside, Vista would be much more accepted among the average users if this wasn't happening.
That is why I never buy Japanese computers - the big companies like SONY, NEC, are absolutely awful, especially here in Japan. I suppose it is because they are marketing towards the novice user majority, so they load up their products with multiple ISP sign-up wizards, crappy games, virus software trials, lite versions of various pointless utils, and gimmickware. And then sometimes they don't even give you a CD - instead, everything is stored on a recovery partition - and if they do, it is usually a recovery CD.
*Kisses Clevo*
Give me a Taiwanese, caca-ware free Laptop any day.
*Undoes fly...*
So here we are, consumers getting screwed because people were stupid enough to believe the OEMs that were already screwing their customers.
Also the OEM bundling deals with MS were the OEMs fault, not MS. All software companies from IBM to Wordperfect offered the same exclusive bundling options during the 90s timeframe. It was the OEMs that chose to sign the exclusivity deal to save about $5 a copy for Windows. A lot of OEM, like one I owned, never signed the exclusive deal and we paid $5 more per copy of Windows than Dell or HP at the time, but it was worth the ability to have a choice for our customers, even though the majority wanted Windows.
(PS Wordperfect had a big exclusive OEM deal with many companies in the 90s, that is why most machines came with a copy of Wordperfect during this timeframe, when MS didn't even offer any exclusive deals for Office, like they did Windows. So for people to argue that it was the bundling deals that MADE Windows or MADE Office successful, they don't know what they are talking about, because if it was based on bundling, then Wordperfect Office would be the dominate Suite right now. However, it sucked and people still went out and bought MS Office.)
OEMs are the ones that locked themselves into the exclusive contract with MS, it wasn't forced, and OEMs got nothing out of the deal but cheaper Windows. We didn't sign any exclusive deal and had full access to the OEM program from Microsoft and could get assitance, help, support, questions answered, anything that HP or Dell could get from Microsoft.
So when consumers started bitching about not being able to buy a computer without an OS or without Windows, the OEMs played stupid and shoved the blame to Microsoft because they didn't want to look like they were the idiots screwing their customers.
Again, everyone believed the idiot OEMs, Microsoft got slapped around, and the consumers got screwed in the long run, as Microsoft can't control anything about the OEM installations of Windows.
It is so bad, that Norton and McAfee pressed the US and EU to get Microsoft to open up Vista instead of using the new Virus/Spyware APIs designed by Microsoft. This was so they could install low level system hooks in Vista, that monitor and screw with parts of the OS they have no business touching. This is why Norton sucks on XP and sucks on Vista, it drops in low level HD monitoring services/drivers, network stack monitoring, even process hooks, and then when it crashes or goes nuts, the system either crashes or becomes so slow it acts retarded.
So now when you think about the Microsoft Monopoly, remember it is this that keeps MS from controlling the OEM experience, and controlling what crap is installed or not installed, even when MS knows the software is buggy as hell like Norton, they can't prevent an OEM from pre-installing it on every system, because the OEMs now have exclusive bundling deals with Norton and other companies, but MS isn't allowed to offer them anymore. Brilliant aye?
*Recommendation* If you are not a tech person, or your grandma just bought a computer and don't have the tools or resources to install a clean version of Vista, then at least go through the Add/Remove programs in the control panel and rip out everything that isn't a driver. (Uninstall Drivers if you have access to download the drivers, as often the OEM driver installs put crap on the computer). - Then install only what you need.
PS - Stay away from Norton and McAfee, use AVG or something else, and don't install 'real-time' monitoring, even for the most careless users you know. Vista is good about protecting them, and a daily scan will ensure that even if they get crap downloaded, it will be cleaned off.
Additional Note for Mac person saying that Macs are better because of this... Um, no you don't get it. A clean Vista install on a Mac is no different than a clean Vista install on any other PC. In fact, the whole bootcamp process doesn't always provide the right drivers or the most current drivers for your hardware and Vista, because Apple tries to control this. There is no advantage to Mac hardware, PERIOD. In fact, there are many things to be argued against Mac hardware, like low quality Video cards, low quality displays, not offering high resolution laptops, etc. (I'm typing this on a laptop from 2005, with a 1920x1200 17" screen and a Geforce 7950 Video card that is faster than most desktops still, and you can't even get close to this resolution or performance with a Mac Laptop.)
You mean crapware like Netscape right. MS never limited "trial" software, only software that competed with their offerings.
Source please. MS offered discounts to OEMs that included copies of MS Word, which at the time was more valuable to the consumer than an office suite. Office was originally included in the anti-trust suit against MS, but that was eventually merged with the OS suit. Here is a small source from a month ago.
I bought a Toshiba laptop with Vista on it. I uninstalled all the bloatware I could, but it still had terrible performance.
I thought, "I know this hardware is better than this. It must be Vista." So I installed XP and sure enough, it had a lot better performance.
But many of the drivers I found for XP were unstable. (Toshiba doesn't make any effort to make good XP drivers for their Vista machines.)
So I tried installing a new Vista and It was a lot better than the Vista that came installed.
Even after getting rid of all the OEM bloatware I could find on it, it still didn't help performance. I had to format and install a clean OS.
Anyway, the least the manufacturer can do is supply a restore disk that separates the OS from the applications when you choose to restore. They should be obligated to provide a mechanism to custom restore your computer.
Last edited by Solid Knight on 23 Apr 2008 - 23:08
Everything has been totally smooth since. I didn't even have to go to HP's site to get any drivers - Vista's Windows Update found everything automatically. The OEMs really need to stop ruining their customer's computers with all the crapware...
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