Dell: Fradulent Business?

Today in a New York State Supreme Court, Dell's financial services was deemed fraudulent on terms that Dell was failing to honor their promised no-interest or no-payment options.

Dell told Reuters it "disagrees" with the ruling. "We are confident that when the proceedings are finally completed, the court will determine that only a relatively small number of customers have been affected," according to the company's statement.

Future court dates will be held to decide on what the affected customers will receive.

Recently, Dell has been taking a lot of heat for unethical business practices, and issues within customer service. Has anyone run into problems regarding Dell's financial services? Let's hear your comments.


View: The Full Story @ news.com

Report a problem with article
Previous Story

MIDI Converter Studio 6.0

Next Story

Street Fighter IV confirmed for PC, Xbox 360 and PS3!

13 Comments

Commenting is disabled on this article.

I thing Dell employed all these crappy managers who were fired from companies they brought down. There is golden rule of business. You can cheat smart customer only once. In long run fair companies do better than companies which don't care about customers.

Problem 1: I live in UK and deals on Dell websites looked good except that memory prices was rip-off. So my first advice for customers was to buy PC from Dell with minimum amount of RAM and then buy extra memory from well known brand like Kingston for 1/3 of price.

Problem 2: Then s*** started. At some point it was not possible to buy Dell with nVidia GeForce 8800 GPU unless you want to splash £2,449 (~$4800) for "better" PC. Dell excuse was that you can't put NV8800 into cheap £800 PC because more expensive chip is required. This is complete b****, because PCI-E is available on all ranges of mainboards (Low-Hi End). Now all Dell's Home PC's are ATI only. We all know that Video card plays huge role in selecting PC. Today, for home PC, GPU is more important than CPU and nVidia is most recommended GPU card on the market. Most professionals have simple advice - If manufacturer won't sell card you need for affordable price then go to competitor. Manager who excluded nVidia card from Home PC computers (Dell UK Site) must be fired. Its same as to remove Aspirin from pharmacy shops.

Problem 3: Dell now offers these "premium" protections plans or "imaginary benefits" as I call them. Press is full of condemning articles about similar rip-off tactics used by other companies. You don't need to do much thinking in order to draw parallels between these companies and Dell. Hi-quality IT equipment must have guaranty of 5 years and require no more than 15% extra for repairs per guaranty period. It means that if you buy something for $100 with 3 year guaranty then you must pay no more than $15 per guaranty period for repairs. If you pay more than 15% then item is crap or service guy is ripping you off. And in fair practice that 15% is included in original price. So when I see 1 year guaranty - I see a crappy product, And when I see that customer is advised to pay 15% extra for each year - I see clear sign of rip-off.

But as I've said, maybe Dell employed all these fired crappy managers with no moral values who managed to make quick buck at expense of customers. Robber can gel loads of money in short period of time, but in real world robbers's career is a short adventure and companies fall fast as soon as customers realize that they were robbed.

Having bought Dell desktops and servers for the last 9 years, I have seen the standards of their service have it's ups and downs. Currently my experience is quite good. Dell servers are bargains compared with the same spec. for other manufacturers. I do think Dell lack technical understanding of their hardware (for example problems with TOE network cards) which can be frustrating, especially with first and second line support.

My experience of Dell products is very positive, the equipment has been reliable, though I had one server (recently dumped) that was flaky from the start, and was never reliable. I am still running some 10 year old servers!

Did they not just bring back Michael Dell as the CEO of Dell Inc. when Kevin Rollins left (or was fired)? I just ordered a Dell XPS M1530 and had absolutely no trouble going through the sales process, and I very much look forward to receiving my new notebook (specs are pretty good IMO.... C2D 2.6GHz/4GB RAM/320GB HDD/1920x1200 Screen/8600M GT 256MB/Windows Vista Ultimate).

betasp - unless you are related to Michael Dell or are one of those overpaid execs he mentioned (which I doubt) -- you shouldnt be so harsh about his microcosm of Dell's service. The part may or may not be indicitive of the whole, but when you see errors over and over and over again -- well.....everything is relative.

I am sure he realizes there are other aspects to Dell's overall business plan, but he is speaking in terms of tech support/cust. service and the abuse of their own...

anecdote ? maybe
effective ? certainly

youre right there is a point where crappy service negates any ROI, but there are other aspects considered when contracts / agreements are awarded - and you are simply stating the obvious and balking at his own personal observation (the definition of anecdote)

I am an independent contractor. I have a contract with a company called Installs Inc., who handles all of Dell's on-site services and installations. Out of all the companies that work for Installs Inc., we have the #1 contract with Dell in Southern California, and are usually assigned "cleanup crew" for cascade failures within Dell customer service.

This is not an exaggeration: 40-50% of Dell's on-site services and installations are screwed up, not even counting delivery failures(a much higher number). We are talking about Dell sending memory or hardware that doesn't fit their own computer, Dell sending hardware that is damaged from factory, Dell assigning the wrong work order to a customer, critical software errors that crash peoples computers, forgetting to send extra parts or peripherals, and the list goes on.

These are just the catastrophic failures from the departments who administrate the on-site service calls and work orders.

Their sales department? It goes beyond criminal.

I constantly see customers who have lot's of money and little sense when it comes to computers. I used to work in sales at a computer department store, so I know how vulnerable these people are to buying "beyond their needs." However, when it comes to Dell, they literally rape and bull**** the customer to nickel & dime them as much as possible.

Customers are routinely, flat out lied to, about what equipment they need for a wireless network, or a simple internet computer. I recently had a customer who was pushed into buying TWO gaming routers, and FOUR wireless receivers, when they were only buying two computers. Dell sales department lied to the customer and told him that all of this equipment was necessary. Not only that, but when the customer bought their computer that was advertised with a see-through case, Dell said the see-through panel was *optional* and that he had to pay more for them. Dell makes the advertised see-through panel optional, on a $3,000 gaming rig. Go figure.

Then after Dell pressures the customer into purchasing two on-site installations, they sneak in a data transfer onto the work order, without even telling the customer. Then, when you try to call back their customer care department to get something fixed or refunded, you are transferred straight to their India department where their call centers are instructed to "pass the buck" back and forth between the wrong departments, until you give up out of frustration. It literally took me two hours to get a simple refund for a work order. I called the correct department directly, and gave them all the inromation upfront and requested to speak with a supervisor immediately. They blatantly lied to me and transferred me around without my consent for two hours, despite the fact I was calling as a Dell certified technician.

And the worst part of all, they screw with me, the on-site technician. I'm the guy on their side, with high CE scores and great reputation, doing it all in the name of Dell. They screw with me the worst. Their billing department tries to change their policies without warning so they can find excuses for delaying my payments or refusing to pay me at all. Out of the 40%+ installation that Dell screws up, some of them require me to go back out and finish the installation on a second trip. Dell is *supposed* to pay for that out of their pocket, since they screwed up, but their billing department finds so many loopholes to refuse paying me for second trips. Dell constantly undersells work orders, or fails to note additional work that a customer wants done, hoping that I will be forced to do that additional work for free, without getting paid. Dell's sales department constantly lies to the customer about what work is included in the work order, and makes them believe we will do their extra work for free. Not to mention that gas prices are rising, and our paid installation rates are not. In fact, Dell is trying to *reduce* what they pay us per installation.

I read many different technology news sites, and I've seen few too many headlines about Dell's sinking ship. Their company is full of over-paid executives who do nothing but think over bull**** ideas and programs, that are designed to look good on paper, just so it looks like they are earning their salary. In reality, their ideas are cascade failures that fly in the face of all common sense, and us lowly technicians are forced to implement them, no matter how stupid and insane they are. Dell is getting sued left and right, they are shutting down their major factory in Texas, they are panicking to move their "worse than AOL" customer service back to the United States, and Sony is licking their chops to pass them up and become the #2 computer supplier, below Hewlett Packard.

However, I don't bend over and take it from them, because I'm an entrepreneur. I am very successful with turning their bull**** into sweet, sweet lemonade. I make very good monies for the time and effort I waste with them, one way or another.

This is not an exaggeration: 40-50% of Dell's on-site services and installations are screwed up, not even counting delivery failures(a much higher number). We are talking about Dell sending memory or hardware that doesn't fit their own computer, Dell sending hardware that is damaged from factory, Dell assigning the wrong work order to a customer, critical software errors that crash peoples computers, forgetting to send extra parts or peripherals, and the list goes on.

You do realize that if everything was correct, you would never be called. And despite your long dissertation, what YOU see is such a small percentage of Dell's business is would be statistically 0. If they were really that bad, they would not have the business or contracts that they do have. There is a point where poor service negates any ROI. Note: Look up the word anecdotal sometime.

(betasp said @ #3.1)
You do realize that if everything was correct, you would never be called.

I'm sorry, but it is you who doesn't realize. The screw-ups aren't noticed until the technician is on-site. When it comes to handling on-site services, they have absolutely no quality control. It's a bunch of guys from India behind phone desks running around and passing the buck to make their salary. That is why when the technician arrives, 50% of the time there is a mess to deal with. And unfortunately, we are not allowed to go "**** it, I'm leaving. Call me back when this is sorted out." We have to stay and sort the problem ourselves, or do the best we can and wish the customer good luck. Dell doesn't give a **** about follow-up with the customer, because they bill your credit card in advance. You really have no idea how it works. Do a search on Dell's history of charge backs with major credit holders, and you will see the truth.

And despite your long dissertation, what YOU see is such a small percentage of Dell's business is would be statistically 0. If they were really that bad, they would not have the business or contracts that they do have. There is a point where poor service negates any ROI. Note: Look up the word anecdotal sometime.

Bull****. Look at Dell's IPO. Look at their stocks. They are shutting down plants, restructuring major parts of their company. They are juggling the CEO chair, and they just canned their CFO for another one. They kept outsourcing and cutting labor costs on their direct-computer sales and custom building infrastructure, that it collapsed on itself. They have been rolling back on their direct-PC sales in favor for store shelves. They shut down their major build-to-order plant in Texas, are rumored to shut down even more, and at the same time pre-built Dell computers are rushing into Staples and Best Buy store locations. They got rid of Michael Dell, and now they are getting rid of the company's original business model. Why? Because they want to be more like Hewlett Packard, who is sitting atop the #1 position in computer maker/distributor.

But don't believe me, look at Dell's stock prices for the past year.
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=DELL#ch...ource=undefined

Is that what you call statistically zero? Last April they had their lowest downturn in the last 5 years. They are only recently gaining stock price because of people spending their tax credits and stimulus checks. Before you tell me to look up words, why don't you actually look up FACTS. Why don't you try searching tech headlines about Dell for the past 6 months? Oh, and look up the word RESEARCH sometime.

You are picking and choosing our research. The fact that they are looking to close plants is not indicative of their customer service. Many, many companies are doing the same. Dow Chemicals is raising prices 20% and laying off. Ford Motors is doing the same. Tyson is closing poultry plants (are people unhappy with the service of their chicken).

Go ahead and exclude Apple, then redo your stock research using the top 5 PC manufacturers. Notice a similarity. All of them have dropped since the PC has become a commodity.


When it comes to handling on-site services, they have absolutely no quality control. It's a bunch of guys from India behind phone desks running around and passing the buck to make their salary.

How is someone in India screwing up on-site service? That seems like a long flight to swap a CD Drive. Are you saying that they could be doing more phone support? I am having a hard time making since on the above quote and subsequent paragraph.

(betasp said @ #3.3)
You are picking and choosing our research. The fact that they are looking to close plants is not indicative of their customer service. Many, many companies are doing the same. Dow Chemicals is raising prices 20% and laying off. Ford Motors is doing the same. Tyson is closing poultry plants (are people unhappy with the service of their chicken).

Go ahead and exclude Apple, then redo your stock research using the top 5 PC manufacturers. Notice a similarity. All of them have dropped since the PC has become a commodity.


How is someone in India screwing up on-site service? That seems like a long flight to swap a CD Drive. Are you saying that they could be doing more phone support? I am having a hard time making since on the above quote and subsequent paragraph.

He said handling on-site services which could mean how they interact with the customer concerning the on-site services, not actually visiting the customer to fix a broken monitor or replace a faulty printer. It's obvious by the context of his post that he is referring to the lack of accountability that is "rampant" among the indian call centers. I don't know how true this is but there must be some validity if they are moving the call centers back to the states or to other countries.

(betasp said @ #3.3)
You are picking and choosing our research. The fact that they are looking to close plants is not indicative of their customer service. Go ahead and exclude Apple, then redo your stock research using the top 5 PC manufacturers. Notice a similarity. All of them have dropped since the PC has become a commodity.

Since you would rather make blind accusations than do any research yourself, let me do some of the work for you.

HP (#1) trades for double than what Dell is worth. Acer (#3) trades for triple. Lenovo (#4) is brand new to the PC division since 2005, yet is is on an upturn to reach Dell's position. Toshiba (#5) and Sony can't be counted, because they span across the entire range of consumer electronics, and therefore their market prices are affected by too many sectors.

All four companies dropped off after the Christmas holiday, but only three of them picked up after the January slump. Guess which one has been on a constant downturn since Christmas? That's right, Dell.

Excluding the newcomer Lenovo, only two of the three companies have seen healthy growth over the past 5 years. Guess which company has been sinking instead? Yeah, that would be Dell.

Soon, Acer is going to take the #2 spot. And if Dell keeps on their path of failure cascade, newcomer Lenovo is going to surpass them as well. Then Dell will be #4, only being a cut above the general consumer electronics corporations Toshiba and Sony.

So according to the facts, your statements are completely baseless, you are entirely incorrect, and Apple isn't even close to the 'Top 5' in PC manufacturing. Please stop embarrassing yourself and do the research next time.

How is someone in India screwing up on-site service? That seems like a long flight to swap a CD Drive.

I hope you are pretending to be stupid in a poor attempt to be naive. Cue my original post:

"We are talking about Dell sending memory or hardware that doesn't fit their own computer, Dell sending hardware that is damaged from factory, Dell assigning the wrong work order to a customer, critical software errors that crash peoples computers, forgetting to send extra parts or peripherals, and the list goes on."

Seriously, if you are going to debate the other side of the issue, for no other reason than to argue, at least do the research. In case you haven't noticed while biting your own tongue, lazy people are not very good at counter arguments.

Do your homework next time.

LOL the intrest rate for such an account are pretty reasonable to the market. Just look at the best buy credit card. 24+% locked apr with a promo for WELL qualies getting 1 year no intrest(and yes thats if you doo have 800+ beacon). Apple is the same way and so are the other mfgs. BIG deal. It is about there problems not the rates. I think it is IT's fault. Get on the ball and make sure the code WORKS!!! LOL Plus its the customers fault for knowing there credit sucks and taking advantage of the situation if they do Get approved. OH well. Capitalism lives on. :-) Its late I am not sure what I said.

Sarcasm is .... :sleeping: zzzzzzzz

Hmm . I use dell financial. They have a very very high interest rate so if you can pay with another credit card then i suggest you do. They are pretty good about late payments as long as its not past 5 days or so .

They should really do something about their rates though.