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Apple Threatens to Shut Down iTunes

Bezhou Feng   on 01 October 2008 - 16:54 · 83 comments & 14318 views

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This coming Thursday, the Copyright Royalty Board is expected to rule on a request by the National Music Publisher's Association to increase royalty rates paid to its members for online purchases as much as 66% (from 9 to 15 cents a track). Apple, however, stands adamantly opposed to the decision, as it neither wants to absorb the rate hike nor raise prices from 99 cents on its popular iTunes Music Store. Although it has made no official statement on the matter as of yet, past statements indicate that, should the hike go through, the company may shut down the store, rather than risk going into the red.

Fortune reports that in a statement submitted to the board last year, iTunes vice president Eddy Cue suggested simply closing down the music store, should no alternatives present themself. "If the [iTunes music store] was forced to absorb any increase in the ... royalty rate, the result would be to significantly increase the likelihood of the store operating at a financial loss - which is no alternative at all," Cue wrote. "Apple has repeatedly made it clear that it is in this business to make money, and most likely would not continue to operate [the iTunes music store] if it were no longer possible to do so profitably."

Although the exact figures are not certain, estimates on the digital music store's profitability range from 10% to 30%. Of every dollar it makes, Apple pays roughly 70 cents to the record companies, and, currently, the record companies pay 9 cents to the music publishers.

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(9 replies) #1 kazuyette on 01 Oct 2008 - 16:54
good news!
#1.1 webeagle12 on 01 Oct 2008 - 16:58
did you even think before you wrote this?
#1.2 MightyJordan on 01 Oct 2008 - 17:22
(webeagle12 said @ #1.1)
did you even think before you wrote this?

I think I have to say the same thing to you! It's great news!
#1.3 Faisal Islam on 01 Oct 2008 - 18:15
**** apple. Zune RULEZ!
#1.4 PiG_DoG on 01 Oct 2008 - 19:11
Yes - Put up the prices and shut the store - that really would be amazing. Ditch the ipod and use a cassette walkman! Retro rules!
#1.5 +Berserk87 on 01 Oct 2008 - 19:54
(PiG_DoG said @ #1.4)
Yes - Put up the prices and shut the store - that really would be amazing. Ditch the ipod and use a cassette walkman! Retro rules!


ya, cause the the thing close to an ipod is a cassette player, no other mp3 players exists, everything else is crap unless apple makes it and charges a ridiculous amount for it.
#1.6 MightyJordan on 01 Oct 2008 - 20:03
(Faisal Islam said @ #1.3)
**** apple. Zune RULEZ!

Agree with you there, but steady on there!
#1.7 joeydoo on 01 Oct 2008 - 20:15
itunes is practically the biggest music retailer in the US.... that's a LOT of money to lose. They won't raise the rates if it means they make less money.

Good work apple.
#1.8 Divide Overflow on 02 Oct 2008 - 03:03
I would love to see iTMS shut down. Of the two Steves, Woz is great. I'd love to shake the guy's hand. Jobs is another matter however; I wouldn't mind if he stepped in front of a bus. So long as Steve Jobs has anything to do with Apple I doubt I will ever buy an Apple product, unless they come up with something truly revolutionary. iPhone, Intel Mac, Apple TV, Mac Mini, iMac, iPod. . all evolutionary products, and not at all compelling. I haven't seen a single piece of Apple hardware that set the cash in my pocket on fire. Besides, it's been ten years. Isn't it time to give up the iNaming gimmick? This is like a marathon horse beating the likes of which the world has never seen.
#1.9 CounterStrikeSourceAddict on 02 Oct 2008 - 06:25
(PiG_DoG said @ #1.4)
Yes - Put up the prices and shut the store - that really would be amazing. Ditch the ipod and use a cassette walkman! Retro rules!


hell no..portable 8-track player is retro man
(5 replies) #2 Marshalus on 01 Oct 2008 - 16:57
I guess I'll just to continue not buying my music from iTunes.
#2.1 +GreyWolfSC on 01 Oct 2008 - 16:59
(Marshalus said @ #2)
I guess I'll just to continue not buying my music from iTunes.


Same here... Don't care for iTunes or the store... eMusic and Amazon do it for me...
#2.2 Marshalus on 01 Oct 2008 - 17:12
(GreyWolfSC said @ #2.1)
(Marshalus said @ #2)
I guess I'll just to continue not buying my music from iTunes.


Same here... Don't care for iTunes or the store... eMusic and Amazon do it for me...


I agree, I either buy CDs or get my goods from Amazon.
#2.3 +Harlem39s Finest on 01 Oct 2008 - 20:09
+1

paying for poor quality music(when you can buy a CD quality for the same price) is not a good deal is it ?
#2.4 theyarecomingforyou on 01 Oct 2008 - 21:19
DRM. Low quality audio. No physical product. I will continue to buy CDs until a genuine alternative presents itself. With computer games I've already made the transition to digital thanks to Steam (where I buy virtually all my games), so it's not like I have an aversion to digital distribution. What is needed is a service like Steam where you don't have restrictive DRM and you can redownload purchases as often as you like.

I'd be glad to see iTunes go as it leaves space for better services.
#2.5 z0phi3l on 01 Oct 2008 - 23:19
(GreyWolfSC said @ #2.1)
(Marshalus said @ #2)
I guess I'll just to continue not buying my music from iTunes.


Same here... Don't care for iTunes or the store... eMusic and Amazon do it for me...



What are you going to do when THEIR rates go up?
#3 +shakey_snake on 01 Oct 2008 - 16:59
The day will come.

And when it comes, there's going to be a lot of ****ed off people.
#4 C++ on 01 Oct 2008 - 17:00
Apple is bad at bluffing.
(2 replies) #5 webeagle12 on 01 Oct 2008 - 17:01
This sucks especially when I bough lot's of music from iTunes. I bet that Retarded Industry American Association is behind this too.
#5.1 Lasker on 01 Oct 2008 - 17:06
you mean the RETARDED INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA, anyway I agree with you and BTW Apple store sucks!
#5.2 webeagle12 on 01 Oct 2008 - 17:08
(Lasker said @ #5.1)
you mean the RETARDED INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA, anyway I agree with you and BTW Apple store sucks!


I just made up a name on a fly

For me it's not about if iTunes will close, it's more about those scumbags getting our money
(5 replies) #6 n_K on 01 Oct 2008 - 17:16
9 cents goes to the artist!?
sue apple for being so **** imho
#6.1 Hell-In-A-Handbasket on 01 Oct 2008 - 17:57
lol, what makes you think its going to go to the artist.

(n_K said @ #6)
9 cents goes to the artist!?
sue apple for being so **** imho
#6.2 Dakkaroth on 01 Oct 2008 - 18:57
(Hell-In-A-Handbasket said @ #6.1)
lol, what makes you think its going to go to the artist.

(n_K said @ #6)
9 cents goes to the artist!?
sue apple for being so **** imho


lol exactly.
#6.3 hagjohn on 01 Oct 2008 - 20:19
You mean the writer, not the artist.
#6.4 AfroTrance on 03 Oct 2008 - 08:57
I pretty sure Apple doesn't decide how much money goes to the artist.
#6.5 Nose Nuggets on 06 Oct 2008 - 16:32
(hagjohn said @ #6.3)
You mean the writer, not the artist.


its neither.
#7 digitalsoft on 01 Oct 2008 - 17:19
Sorry but does this mean it would close the podcasts directory aswell?? I dont mind about the Store closing but not the podcast directory
#8 vetneufuse on 01 Oct 2008 - 17:20
and this is why online digital drm'ed (yes i know they sell non-drm'ed also) music sucks... if they shut the store down, eventually the DRM server will go too... just like yahoo, msn, and wal-mart did...
#9 jwjw1 on 01 Oct 2008 - 17:35
as if the 'artist' will really get the increase royalty...it will go right into the pockets of the RIAA Greedy CEO's and their Yachts....Apple should close it down and quit being hostage to the CEO's...something has to be done to let the 'artist' see this scam...if they go hungry long enough they will actually do something for 'themselves'
#10 Landlocked on 01 Oct 2008 - 17:36
Very bad bluff by Apple. Their stock is on the decline as iPod sales have already peaked. If they shut down their music store they are hosed and can't move what remaining iPods are already in the channel and certainly can't afford to shut down factories.
#11 Bhav on 01 Oct 2008 - 17:43
If you have 85% market share...you don't suddenly close down because of pricing pressures lol
(1 reply) #12 +ArtOfTheWire on 01 Oct 2008 - 17:52
Yet another reason to Rip my DRM and get a Zune
#12.1 bob_c_b on 01 Oct 2008 - 18:27
(ArtOfTheWire said @ #12)
Yet another reason to Rip my DRM and get a Zune


Getting charged for firmware on the Touch inspired me to do this and I coulnd't be happier. My 16GB Zune is just as easy to use, far lighter and compact and the Zune software is so far ahead of iTunes it's not funny. And it's not bloated, comes in 64 bit and doesn't install a bunch of garbage services on my system.

It took me a couple days to clean up my iTMS purchases, a few hours to fix some tags, etc... but a handful of CD-RWs made it cheap and fast to do. Now I only buy non-DRMd MP3s from the Zune store or Amazon.
(3 replies) #13 Hell-In-A-Handbasket on 01 Oct 2008 - 17:55
I think this is the RIAA's way of upping the price cause Apple wont, if iTunes goes south because of it, then ill go back to pirating, currently i buy exclusively from iTunes, i dont get hard media anymore
#13.1 +shakey_snake on 01 Oct 2008 - 18:00
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</spam>
#13.2 afusion on 01 Oct 2008 - 19:23
(shakey_snake said @ #13.1)
i g3tz viagra 4 cheap. You needz?

</spam>

Ever heard of Bit Torrent?
#13.3 Kirkburn on 01 Oct 2008 - 20:07
(afusion said @ #13.2)
(shakey_snake said @ #13.1)
i g3tz viagra 4 cheap. You needz?

</spam>

Ever heard of Bit Torrent?

And he was responding to the "hard media" comment.
#14 Webworldx on 01 Oct 2008 - 17:59
As others have said, a bad bluff by Apple. It's a "look, we disagree with this too, so it's not us doing the price hike" motive, soon to be followed by tracks prices going to $1.25. The rest of the industry will follow, as no-one will want to absorb the costs if Apple can't.. and we're back to normal.... Apple wins with a bit of publicity and consumer confidence....
#15 Don Matteo on 01 Oct 2008 - 18:20
All bs from apple. Without iTunes they wouldnt sell nearly as many ipods.
(4 replies) #16 bob_c_b on 01 Oct 2008 - 18:29
Good riddance, this would drive all the lables to Amazon MP3 and improve the selection, and increase the titles available at the Zune store.
#16.1 Binary on 01 Oct 2008 - 21:55
(bob_c_b said @ #16)
Good riddance, this would drive all the lables to Amazon MP3 and improve the selection, and increase the titles available at the Zune store.



LOL ...

AND allow the record labels and RIAA to charge whatever they damn well please, until your oh so favourite services are dead also.


The Apple bashers amuse me. iTunes closing would possibly serve to end all online distribution services, as in the long run, no one would be able to profit off of a song - and keep customers.
#16.2 bob_c_b on 01 Oct 2008 - 23:55
(Binary said @ #16.1)
(bob_c_b said @ #16)
Good riddance, this would drive all the lables to Amazon MP3 and improve the selection, and increase the titles available at the Zune store.



LOL ...

AND allow the record labels and RIAA to charge whatever they damn well please, until your oh so favourite services are dead also.


The Apple bashers amuse me. iTunes closing would possibly serve to end all online distribution services, as in the long run, no one would be able to profit off of a song - and keep customers.


LOL...

EVEN funnier are those who think Apple is the only way the music industry can continue to exist. Step away from the Look Aid.
#16.3 Binary on 01 Oct 2008 - 23:57
(bob_c_b said @ #16.2)
(Binary said @ #16.1)
(bob_c_b said @ #16)
Good riddance, this would drive all the lables to Amazon MP3 and improve the selection, and increase the titles available at the Zune store.



LOL ...

AND allow the record labels and RIAA to charge whatever they damn well please, until your oh so favourite services are dead also.


The Apple bashers amuse me. iTunes closing would possibly serve to end all online distribution services, as in the long run, no one would be able to profit off of a song - and keep customers.


LOL...

EVEN funnier are those who think Apple is the only way the music industry can continue to exist. Step away from the Look Aid.


I didn't say that.

Look at the facts, Apple is the biggest online music retailer. If they can't manage to stop unfair pricing, or manage to even make a profit, how can anyone else once the labels start charging even more?
#16.4 bob_c_b on 02 Oct 2008 - 02:24
(Binary said @ #16.3)
(bob_c_b said @ #16.2)
(Binary said @ #16.1)
(bob_c_b said @ #16)
Good riddance, this would drive all the lables to Amazon MP3 and improve the selection, and increase the titles available at the Zune store.



LOL ...

AND allow the record labels and RIAA to charge whatever they damn well please, until your oh so favourite services are dead also.


The Apple bashers amuse me. iTunes closing would possibly serve to end all online distribution services, as in the long run, no one would be able to profit off of a song - and keep customers.


LOL...

EVEN funnier are those who think Apple is the only way the music industry can continue to exist. Step away from the Look Aid.


I didn't say that.

Look at the facts, Apple is the biggest online music retailer. If they can't manage to stop unfair pricing, or manage to even make a profit, how can anyone else once the labels start charging even more?


Do you really think you are only going to pay $.99 forever?
#17 PiG_DoG on 01 Oct 2008 - 19:13
DRM free 4life!
(2 replies) #18 craybox on 01 Oct 2008 - 19:14
Apple needs to stand up against these associations because it will be yours or my pocket that it affects.

This does seem like a bluff from Apple but I am a bit shocked so many people who have commented want Apple to fail.

If Apple goes downhill then Microsoft will sit on the fat wads of cash and go back to the innovation-less company that they were. We have at least got Apple to thank for igniting maybe just a small rocket up Microsoft's rear.

#18.1 C_Guy on 01 Oct 2008 - 19:28
Ha ha ha, that's funny. Apple has Microsoft to thank for increasing it's Mac sales, since two of their strongest selling points are "You can run Windows on a Mac!" and "You can run Office on a Mac!"

Sorry to break the news to you but Microsoft's innovations are not "ignited" by Apple. Give credit where it is DUE, not the other way around.
#18.2 craybox on 01 Oct 2008 - 20:59
lol you think those are it's strongest selling points !!

I'm sorry but 'Microsoft' and 'innovation' in the same sentence is not really acceptable
#19 C_Guy on 01 Oct 2008 - 19:24
"the result would be to significantly increase the likelihood of the store operating at a financial loss "

Wow, Apple sure thinks people are stupid. Of the 90 cents a song, only 9 cents is paid on royalties? Apple is making a lot of money from iTunes and increasing the royalty 6 cents will NOT be enough to make them operate at or below cost. They could still rake in a pile of money if they paid more royalties and maintained 99 cents a song.

The iPod/iTunes consumer lockdown is one of Jobs' greatest legacies. It put Apple back on the map. It won't be shut down unless it is forced to operate at a loss and a 6 cent raise in royalties won't come close to making that happen.

Apple sure has done a good job drawing attention to itself with this bluff and guess what that means? More iTunes revenue.
(6 replies) #20 ironsight2000 on 01 Oct 2008 - 19:28
9 cents for artests
60 cents for the RIAA
20 cents for server upkeep
10 cents profit
#20.1 +GreyWolfSC on 01 Oct 2008 - 19:32
(ironsight2000 said @ #20)
9 cents for artests
60 cents for the RIAA
20 cents for server upkeep
10 cents profit


I have a friend that sells his albums through iTunes... he says he gets about 60% of the track price.
#20.2 Kirkburn on 01 Oct 2008 - 20:09
(GreyWolfSC said @ #20.1)
(ironsight2000 said @ #20)
9 cents for artests
60 cents for the RIAA
20 cents for server upkeep
10 cents profit


I have a friend that sells his albums through iTunes... he says he gets about 60% of the track price.

Wouldn't that account for the "60 cents for the RIAA". I'm not au fait with exactly how it works, but you don't have to go via RIAA?
#20.3 ironsight2000 on 01 Oct 2008 - 20:52
(Kirkburn said @ #20.2)
(GreyWolfSC said @ #20.1)
(ironsight2000 said @ #20)
9 cents for artests
60 cents for the RIAA
20 cents for server upkeep
10 cents profit


I have a friend that sells his albums through iTunes... he says he gets about 60% of the track price.

Wouldn't that account for the "60 cents for the RIAA". I'm not au fait with exactly how it works, but you don't have to go via RIAA?


but 90% of the music on Itunes is RIAA
#20.4 +GreyWolfSC on 01 Oct 2008 - 21:47
(Kirkburn said @ #20.2)
(GreyWolfSC said @ #20.1)
(ironsight2000 said @ #20)
9 cents for artests
60 cents for the RIAA
20 cents for server upkeep
10 cents profit


I have a friend that sells his albums through iTunes... he says he gets about 60% of the track price.

Wouldn't that account for the "60 cents for the RIAA". I'm not au fait with exactly how it works, but you don't have to go via RIAA?


Absolutely not! The RIAA doesn't own the right to publish music. That 60% goes straight to his checking account.
#20.5 PsykX on 01 Oct 2008 - 23:48
60% revenue to the artist is a good price according to me. If you try to go with something like Warners or stuff like that, they just steal you, you get nearly nothing.
#20.6 Julius Caro on 02 Oct 2008 - 15:23
60% go to him because he's dealing directly with apple and he's the manager of his own distribution rights. But with the labels, artists leave the distribution part to the labels and the labels 'join forces' to defend those rights. Since it's the labels that deal with itunes, it's the labels that would get that 60%, and I guess the amount the artist gets depends on whatever arragement they have with every artist.
#21 ironsight2000 on 01 Oct 2008 - 19:35
is your friend a independent or apart of a label big difference
#22 +Shadrack on 01 Oct 2008 - 19:54
Zune Pass FTW.
(2 replies) #23 Kirkburn on 01 Oct 2008 - 20:10
Since it was left out of the news story, I'm going to bold this:

Apple made this comment 18 months ago.
#23.1 ironsight2000 on 01 Oct 2008 - 20:16
(Kirkburn said @ #23)
Since it was left out of the news story, I'm going to bold this:

Apple made this comment 18 months ago.



read the article It was just updated

By Devin Leonard, senior writer
Last Updated: September 30, 2008: 3:21 PM ET
#23.2 Kirkburn on 01 Oct 2008 - 20:27
(ironsight2000 said @ #23.1)
read the article It was just updated

By Devin Leonard, senior writer
Last Updated: September 30, 2008: 3:21 PM ET

I see no mention of "18 months ago" in the article here. I see a "last year", but it appears most of the people in this thread are skipping it over.

I saw the news here first: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7645537.stm ... it's in the lead paragraph, hence why I noticed the lack of it here. It's an important fact.
#24 magik on 01 Oct 2008 - 20:11
Haha, fat chance. All they'll do is pass on the increased price to the consumers.
#25 lylesback2 on 01 Oct 2008 - 20:19
these online royalty rates just screwed everyone from online radio to online sales.
#26 GEIST on 01 Oct 2008 - 22:01
As if Apple could afford to do that. What a steaming load of ****.
#27 Gabe3 on 01 Oct 2008 - 22:15
very good news. i hate the itunes store, the only reason ****ty itunes is on my PC is because of my iphone. amazon is a much better place to buy music from.
(1 reply) #28 Xeta on 01 Oct 2008 - 22:25
Sounds like an empty threat to me. Why would they close the store instead of upping the price by 6 cents?

OH NOES! The music is going to cost $1.05 now!
#28.1 Skulltrail on 01 Oct 2008 - 23:00
+1
#29 z0phi3l on 01 Oct 2008 - 23:26
All you idiots happy about the fact that the iTunes store could close just don't get it. Do you think Amazon and eMusic prices won't go up too? Or do you actually like paying more than a track is actually worth? What hurts Apple when it comes to music, hurts the Consumer (you and me) in the whole deal because we are the ones stuck with the bill.
(4 replies) #30 PsykX on 01 Oct 2008 - 23:47
They threatened to close the iTunes store, knowing it would make other people react and say "no, the iTunes store is way too important, we gotta do something"

The iTunes store is so big, it'll just never close. It can change a little bit, but not close.

All of you idiots who want it to close have no idea of what the iTunes store is, seriously. Use it and come tell me it sucks, but most importantly, tell me what's wrong with it.

Admit it, it's a great service
#30.1 Matthew™ on 02 Oct 2008 - 00:19
(PsykX said @ #30)
They threatened to close the iTunes store, knowing it would make other people react and say "no, the iTunes store is way too important, we gotta do something"

The iTunes store is so big, it'll just never close. It can change a little bit, but not close.

All of you idiots who want it to close have no idea of what the iTunes store is, seriously. Use it and come tell me it sucks, but most importantly, tell me what's wrong with it.

Admit it, it's a great service


I admit that it is a great service, and that I think the Podcast Directory is amazing.

*BUT*

I think that it is just plain wrong to pay for firmware updates, I had to pay to update my iPod Touch to 2.0. That is the problem that I myself have with iTunes.
#30.2 PsykX on 02 Oct 2008 - 02:56
Yeah, that I really have to agree with.

I mean, I have an iPod Touch myself and never wanted to pay for these (quite necessary) updates. The thing though is, to be legal, Apple has to charge you for the update on the iPod Touch, because it adds features and you didn't pay for them when you bought it. It's a 1 fee purchase and you don't have any contract for the product, thus you need to pay. It's really annoying, I don't really understand this law, because we don't even know where all this money goes... it's a free 10 bucks for Apple, and it's probably going right into their pockets, but it's the law.

But this is not really related to the iTunes Store itself. I know what you mean, but I think it has to do with podcasts, movies, music and whatnot. Not firmware updates.
#30.3 Sacha on 02 Oct 2008 - 10:06
(PsykX said @ #30.2)
I mean, I have an iPod Touch myself and never wanted to pay for these (quite necessary) updates. The thing though is, to be legal, Apple has to charge you for the update on the iPod Touch, because it adds features and you didn't pay for them when you bought it. It's a 1 fee purchase and you don't have any contract for the product, thus you need to pay. It's really annoying, I don't really understand this law, because we don't even know where all this money goes... it's a free 10 bucks for Apple, and it's probably going right into their pockets, but it's the law.


Wait, Apple writes the law now?

I don't own any Apple devices and I have never had to pay for any firmware updates that add features -- they are all absolutely free. Think: Windows Mobile 6.1 on an old Windows Mobile 6.0 device.

If the company left something out of the firmware, I believe it's their responsibility to fix/add the feature. Otherwise they will get bad reviews about not updating software or responding to customers not to mention the feature that was missing/broken.

If any other company charged for firmware, no one would buy it.
#30.4 +Harlem39s Finest on 02 Oct 2008 - 11:02
oh its sooo great !

its just that some people prefer CD quality to whatever crap itunes are offering, especially when it costs the same(which means you're getting ripped off, or you could argue people buying cd's are getting ripped off too but that would mean using itunes is even more costly when you compare the quality to the price)

#31 GenBlood on 02 Oct 2008 - 02:17
Apple can complain all they want ... bottom line is
the iTunes store will not CLOSE ...

The fallout of them doing something that stupid would
cause people to drop the iPhone and go to others ..
Hey .. they might even start buying CDs from stories
again ...

I like using iTunes for buying some songs, but I still
prefer the CD.
(1 reply) #32 HalcyonX12 on 02 Oct 2008 - 02:56
currently, the record companies pay 9 cents to the music publishers.

Of course!! The record companies have to package and distribute all that music! Oh wait... Apple does all that on iTunes... and even promotes certain releases/bands in their commercials and on the iTMS start page... what are the record companies doing in this case again?
#32.1 +Smigit on 02 Oct 2008 - 05:14
paying employees, costs to produce and promote the album initially and likely paying the band.
(3 replies)