As part of our new direction, I am proud to announce that Shift Linux will be moving away from Ubuntu, and instead switching over to Arch Linux. There are many reasons for this, including a more customizable distribution for us as developers to work with, and a faster and more streamlined start point.In my letter to the community about our new direction, I said that Ubuntu would suit our needs fine, and when the time felt right, we would consider a move. Since then, the outpouring of support from the Neowin community has been unbelievable, and so we decided to take advantage of the moment. If our goal was to one day move away from Ubuntu, it seemed futile to continue down the same path.
Using the technologies already available and our own coding ability, I and the developers of the team feel we can get back to the point in development we were already at within a matter of months, or maybe even less. It will not be Ubuntu, mind you; we want something different. But it will have the same, or better, level of user friendliness.
After some research, we have also learned that we can still utilize "Wubi", which allows you to install Shift on the same partition as Windows, and even uninstall using your Windows control panel, without really risking your data. A few changes are all that is needed, which contributed a fair bit to this decision being made.
One big reason, that many people wouldn't really understand, is that Ubuntu is actually very difficult to develop for. Replacing packages is very difficult, as the Ubuntu developers have integrated everything so closely. Many things we wanted to change simply couldn't be done easily because of Ubuntu's use of "meta packages"; for example, if we wanted to remove Evolution, which is a mail and calendar application, we would not only end up removing half of Gnome, but many other applications would no longer be willing to install. It was a roadblock in our development, and Arch offers us a way around that. Package management even still exists through "pacman", rather than through APT, and there are loads of applications already packaged for use with Arch. This will benefit everyone, developers and users.
We hope this decision works out as we plan, but we need your help to reach our ambitious goal of really changing the way Linux is known. If you're a developer, a designer, a tester, or if you would like to be any of these, just let us know in our thread on the matter.
Never ever gave me problems. Have more problems with KDE and Kubuntu than Gnome and Ubuntu. 8.10 was much improved. See no reason to change yet. Not that I used Shift that much. I prefer ubuntu straight on.
I may have a reason to try Shift again!!
Although I first tried Linux using Ubuntu, it didn't take me long before I realised what a piece that was!!
I've used Arch since then, and it is a very sweet distro.
Why would you be proud to announce this??? What's to be proud of.....? I can understand practical reasons for the move, but a really poor choice of words!!
Why would you be proud to announce this??? What's to be proud of.....? I can understand practical reasons for the move, but a really poor choice of words!!
It's free.. get over it
We had a discussion in the forums about Ubuntu vs. Arch, and while Ubuntu 60% to 40% in that poll, the posts themselves and the real debate showed a definite winner, plus from the perspective of a developer it makes more sense.
Will you be going with Rolling releases like Arch does? or is there going to be full releases?
Not very familiar with Arch. May definitely give it a go judging from the comments here.
Not very familiar with Arch. May definitely give it a go judging from the comments here.
I agree. It amazes me how, Ubuntu seemed to start with a bang, and get progressively and steadily worse over time, and Fedora has slowly but surely gotten its act together and is coming into its own.
Pip'
Both are my fav distro...
Sweet!
Thank you to whoever seeding this...
Have a nice day
Last edited by Majesticmerc on 29 Nov 2008 - 13:03
it's insane and counter productive for linux development. the shift developers aren't the only ones that do this though, the vast majority of linux developers and users do it. it's the reason why there are dozens of different distros that all do the same thing and make the same claims, after a point it just gets annoying hearing about another distro being made. why even develop shift, what are you honestly adding that is so important that you need a new an entirely new distro? if windows was developed like this every time a new program or theme came out it would be an entirely new distro. How about when someone comes up with some great new feature or idea for linux instead of starting over or making your own distro just make it a separate program for all of linux to use, that way you are improving every distro and all of linux, instead of needlessly fragmenting an already fragmented user base.
it's insane and counter productive for linux development. the shift developers aren't the only ones that do this though, the vast majority of linux developers and users do it. it's the reason why there are dozens of different distros that all do the same thing and make the same claims, after a point it just gets annoying hearing about another distro being made. why even develop shift, what are you honestly adding that is so important that you need a new an entirely new distro? if windows was developed like this every time a new program or theme came out it would be an entirely new distro. How about when someone comes up with some great new feature or idea for linux instead of starting over or making your own distro just make it a separate program for all of linux to use, that way you are improving every distro and all of linux, instead of needlessly fragmenting an already fragmented user base.
Well said! Neowin has a plethora of sycophants who at the first opportunity jump onto whatever bandwagon comes along! You have never heard any real discussion about Arch Linux, but suddenly everyone is an expert! GFG!
You must understand that not everyone feels the same.
That's simply not true. Ubuntu IS bloated, and it IS slow compared to other distribution. No, I don't have a slow PC, but I have seen better and faster distributions. Watching how slow and bloated Ubuntu is with all its useless crap gives me a head ache. It's meant for a novice/beginner. Neowin is a site for computer enthusiasts, not for a guy who can barely install his OS.
If you wanna use Ubuntu, no one's stopping you.
Again, you're wrong. It's the people who use Linux. Most will stop looking for new distribution as soon as they found one that does everything for them. Enthusiasts will try to find a more optimized distribution, a distribution where they can tweak more things, and where they got more control over their system. Ubuntu isn't that.
Arch will never reach the same level because Arch was never meant to be mainstream. It's meant as a sort of - easymode Gentoo, where user has a ton of power in deciding how everything works - yet doesn't need to spend a whole day compiling.
It's bloated compared to other distributions.
Open Source. Everyone wants it to work the way they want, and it's their right.
Because Linux users don't care about the user base. If they cared they wouldn't try it in the first place and would stick to their Windows OS.
it's insane and counter productive for linux development. the shift developers aren't the only ones that do this though, the vast majority of linux developers and users do it. it's the reason why there are dozens of different distros that all do the same thing and make the same claims, after a point it just gets annoying hearing about another distro being made. why even develop shift, what are you honestly adding that is so important that you need a new an entirely new distro? if windows was developed like this every time a new program or theme came out it would be an entirely new distro. How about when someone comes up with some great new feature or idea for linux instead of starting over or making your own distro just make it a separate program for all of linux to use, that way you are improving every distro and all of linux, instead of needlessly fragmenting an already fragmented user base.
You need to understand Linux, its history, and its intended role.
Linux developers have no intention of making it as mainstream as Windows or even OS X (which is itself based on *nix ), nor was that ever Linus Torvald's intention. Linux is an experiment - an ongoing experiment with Open Source. Linux is meant to be open, near-infinitely configurable, with a non-homogenous OS environment.
That's the whole point. Everyone can build and configure their own and then release it for others to enjoy. It doesn't have to "add" anything.
Last edited by LTD on 29 Nov 2008 - 18:17
Seeing this, I take it you've never tried Arch and don't know what the heck you're talking about.
There's progress and there's bloat. I do not want the latter.
Fixed.
There's progress and there's bloat. I do not want the latter.
ubuntu and bloat don't go in the same word as far as I understand bloat is. Makes no sense. Linspire is bloat maybe Kubuntu is bloat. ubuntu right in the middle. not too small not too big. And certainly not slow. 3d effects work great. and the tech support is second to none. Even tried Mandriva earlier. Would rather have Windows ME over that. ubuntu is the only that comes close to competing with Vista. No don't know Arch, I'm bound to check it out though. Have a spare hard drive. and Open Suse never worked right. I run ubuntu with my dell d820 with 3gb or ram in there. And the one guy is right. give linux a bit of chance on ubuntu. The next flavor might be stale to the mainstream. I like the flavor of ubuntu, the we it sounds, feels and looks. It's darker colors appeal to me.
Arch Linux is a rolling release distro.
is anyone else tired of listening to or reading about people complaining that such and such new OS is slow of their computer that has a PIII CPU and 256mb RAM. I mean seriously what do people expect?
Last edited by oliverprescott on 29 Nov 2008 - 05:16
Simplicity to Arch...Imagine, the two most powerful forces of Linux, as one.....LOL
Poor baby, scared you're gonna loose your GUI apps and actually have to learn how to use an OS? Not everyone wants their hand help by the OS, for them Windows and Ubuntu are fine, for the res of us, Arch is the way to go.
It's getting kind of sickening this elitist attitude that so many Linux user on this site have, you think that by installing a program by using the command line makes you better then someone just downloading it and installing it with a gui? I've never felt like someone was holding my hand when using ubuntu or windows, it is possible to be easy to use yet still have advanced features. hell if you want to you could use the terminal to configure and install everything in Ubuntu, is that better or faster? not really.it might shock you but just because someone doesn't like the convoluted nature of your prized Distro doesn't mean they are "noobs' and don't know what they are doing.
Last edited by oliverprescott on 01 Dec 2008 - 00:05
actually arch still uses prebuild binaries like ubuntu. so until you go to a real distro like gentoo your still getting your hand held.
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