When Apple unveiled its latest Macbook and Macbook Pro the world rejoiced. Steve Jobs and his gang at Apple are excellent at product presentation and sales. One thing that was somewhat overlooked at the launch was the inclusion on of mini-DisplayPort.It sounds great but where did Apple get this DisplayPort mini idea from? It seems as if they came up with the idea to design, fabricate and now push the small form factor display port themselves. It's also astonishing because mini-DisplayPort is following in the foot trails of mini-VGA and mini-DVI which all were wildly adopted?
Now Apple does plan on applying the mini-DisplayPort onto all of its products which will bolster the adoption rate to, well, only Apple. Apple is trying to push the standard like it did with mini-DVI and mini-VGA but is offering it "fee free". It is Apple's hope that by offering the port technology fee free, remember there is no free lunch, that other manufacturers will adopt the idea so that Apple's computers will work with more devices natively. As it stands right now you need to carry around a dongle to make the connection ($30.00 to purchase, although now shipping free with new purchases, sorry early adopters). The fee free idea is clearly aimed at avoiding the slow adoption rate of FireWire with its steep licensing fees. If Apple truly wanted mass adoption why didn't they submit the mini-DisplayPort to VESA for standard adoption practices?
The real question is do we need another port? Was DisplayPort that large to begin with that we already needed to miniaturize it? That's the question that was left in the air and Apple decided it was necessary to create another type of port to confuse the consumer. Although, when was the last time Apple created anything without the idea of profit in mind, who knows if the fee free mini-DisplayPort will remain fee free
Did this post have a point??
Yes, it shows once again how Apple seeks to block competition and capitalize on doing something not just different but also wrong.
From wikipedia "Apple's decision to remove the DVI port from the MacBook Pro in favor of Mini-DisplayPort, and to offer Mini-DisplayPort as the only video connector for the new 24 inch Cinema Display, has raised compatibility concerns. While the DisplayPort signal is an open industry standard, it is currently unclear whether the connector used by Apple is part of the standard or proprietary. Even if it is an open standard, Apple as of yet seems to be the only vendor for adapter cables."
Last edited by Beastage on 02 Dec 2008 - 19:03
From wikipedia "Apple's decision to remove the DVI port from the MacBook Pro in favor of Mini-DisplayPort, and to offer Mini-DisplayPort as the only video connector for the new 24 inch Cinema Display, has raised compatibility concerns. While the DisplayPort signal is an open industry standard, it is currently unclear whether the connector used by Apple is part of the standard or proprietary. Even if it is an open standard, Apple as of yet seems to be the only vendor for adapter cables."
beat me to it but thanks!
From wikipedia "Apple's decision to remove the DVI port from the MacBook Pro in favor of Mini-DisplayPort, and to offer Mini-DisplayPort as the only video connector for the new 24 inch Cinema Display, has raised compatibility concerns. While the DisplayPort signal is an open industry standard, it is currently unclear whether the connector used by Apple is part of the standard or proprietary. Even if it is an open standard, Apple as of yet seems to be the only vendor for adapter cables."
Or if you read further, you'd realize that they opened up the specification and are licensing it for free.
From wikipedia "Apple's decision to remove the DVI port from the MacBook Pro in favor of Mini-DisplayPort, and to offer Mini-DisplayPort as the only video connector for the new 24 inch Cinema Display, has raised compatibility concerns. While the DisplayPort signal is an open industry standard, it is currently unclear whether the connector used by Apple is part of the standard or proprietary. Even if it is an open standard, Apple as of yet seems to be the only vendor for adapter cables."
Or if you read further, you'd realize that they opened up the specification and are licensing it for free.
Dude where are you?!
anyway I already addressed that in my second comment, display port is an open spec it self, opening a spec is just a bad excuse in this case.
There's too many "writers" trying to create too many posts so much of Neowin these days is just pointless. Quantity over quality.
Would of thought the newest macs would ship with the dongle included though.
Except it's NOT exclusive. Again, they're offering the technology fee free for open adoption.
Come on... it is, everyone else already agreed on the new standard, all the big players agreed on one universal port.
The specs are the same, the mini port has no benefits, the size difference is even too small to call it mini in my opinion.
Apple didn't suggest to miniature the displayport , it went and already announced products that use it, in a way working against the decision made to support the displayport itself.
And of course it is free because it goes against the standard already decided upon.
I'm surprised that all the other players didn't agree to block any modification to the standard by a single player without negotiation of some sort.
Last edited by Beastage on 02 Dec 2008 - 18:10
thats what apple wants you to think... buy their own dongles...
they could have used the real DisplayPort... but they decided not to.
they could have used the real DisplayPort... but they decided not to.
and since mini Display Port is open any 3rd party can create a dongle for it so you DON'T have to buy a dongle from Apple.
If Microsoft had taken a standard, miniaturized it and opened the standard every one would be applauding them for it.
Do you even know the size difference between the two?
Last edited by jason13524 on 02 Dec 2008 - 18:21
A picture is what this article is lacking.
thats not display port next to Mini DisplayPort...
Sssshhhhhh!! We're not supposed to ask questions like this!
Is there one thing that I hate on my MacBook is well the damn mDP.
It's useless and it was a pain to pay $40 to plug in my 1080P monitor...
Is there one thing that I hate on my MacBook is well the damn mDP.
It's useless and it was a pain to pay $40 to plug in my 1080P monitor...
And why didn't they adopt an already existing standard such as the standard DisplayPort, or even HDMI? Could it be because both are already in use on non-Apple hardware? (My ASUS P5N-EM has integrated graphics with three display-output options - DB-15, DVI-D, and HDMI; DB-15 is always active, with either DVI-D or HDMI jumper-selectable) HDMI on motherboards is not news (DisplayPort has also made appearances on motherboards; like HDMI, it shows up primarily in HTPC/SFF usages); what's more, HDMI-out is much more useful than DisplayPort (or even the previously-ubiquitous DB-15), because if you have *any* recent home theater components, you doubtless have at least one HDMI-HDMI cable in use or laying around, along with a device with HDMI inputs; such usually is not the case with DB-15 or DisplayPort. I have *three* TVs (two 32" and one 42") with at least one HDMI input (the 42" has two). While the 42" is a plasma TV, only one of the 32" is a FP display (the other is a CRT). Also, only the plasma has a DB-15 input (none have DisplayPort inputs). Just in terms of computer displays, if you have an input other than DB-15 or DVI, it's more like to be HDMI than anything else (including DisplayPort). Sounds like Apple is trying the same tactics they used to ensnare IEEE1394 (FireWire, to be all politically-correct and Apple about it).
Is there one thing that I hate on my MacBook is well the damn mDP.
It's useless and it was a pain to pay $40 to plug in my 1080P monitor...
And why didn't they adopt an already existing standard such as the standard DisplayPort, or even HDMI?
HDMI isn't a free standard; in fact it's one of the reasons Intel created the DisplayPort standard.
Yes, the reason Apple is pushing miniDisplayPort is quite simple: they can make a fsckload on cables. $30 for a miniDisplayPort to DVI and $99 for the dual link adapter? Give me a break. This editorial wasn't particularly well written but it's right on point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displayport
Is there one thing that I hate on my MacBook is well the damn mDP.
It's useless and it was a pain to pay $40 to plug in my 1080P monitor...
And why didn't they adopt an already existing standard such as the standard DisplayPort, or even HDMI?
HDMI isn't a free standard; in fact it's one of the reasons Intel created the DisplayPort standard.
Yes, the reason Apple is pushing miniDisplayPort is quite simple: they can make a fsckload on cables. $30 for a miniDisplayPort to DVI and $99 for the dual link adapter? Give me a break. This editorial wasn't particularly well written but it's right on point.
While that's true, since mini Display Port is open any 3rd party can create adapters so you don't have to buy them from Apple so the editorial is really just a load of crap.
The reason they created mini Display Port is so that the MacBook Air would be able to use it. Display Port would be hard to fit in that case.
Last edited by QuarterSwede on 03 Dec 2008 - 23:53
It supports up to 2560x1600, the DisplayPort supports up to 4096×2160!
It doesn't support HDMI!
It doesn't support audio!
It doesn't support an auxiliary channel (USB or touch screen, for example, would have another cable).
They're the only ones manufacturing it, but there are no adapters available (to HDMI, S-Video, DisplayPort, etc).
No improvement in 3mm difference.
Will this suffice?
It supports up to 2560x1600, the DisplayPort supports up to 4096×2160!
It doesn't support HDMI!
It doesn't support audio!
It doesn't support an auxiliary channel (USB or touch screen, for example, would have another cable).
They're the only ones manufacturing it, but there are no adapters available (to HDMI, S-Video, DisplayPort, etc).
No improvement in 3mm difference.
Will this suffice?
Yes, that will. This is an excellent critique, why didn't the article state this? Thank you for the informed reply.
It supports up to 2560x1600, the DisplayPort supports up to 4096×2160!
It doesn't support HDMI!
It doesn't support audio!
It doesn't support an auxiliary channel (USB or touch screen, for example, would have another cable).
They're the only ones manufacturing it, but there are no adapters available (to HDMI, S-Video, DisplayPort, etc).
No improvement in 3mm difference.
Will this suffice?
How often do you need to drive a display larger than 2560x1600? How many companies even sell displays that go beyond 2560x1600?
It's a computer, not a set-top box. If you want to watch stuff on your TV with an Apple product, get an iPod or an AppleTV.
It's a DisplayPort, not an AudioPort, not an AVPort, not an AuxiliaryPort, and not an AllInOnePort. If you want audio, use the audio-out port. If you want to plug in other accessories, use USB or FireWire.
If Apple's licensing the port for free, that means other companies will be able to make adapters. Right now Apple's the only one using it, so it seems only right that they're the only one selling anything for it.
The people who will see the benefit of having a smaller port are the people who see the benefit of a thinner laptop, a smaller car, or a lighter bike. If you just don't care about that kind of stuff then why would you be complaining anyway?
It supports up to 2560x1600, the DisplayPort supports up to 4096×2160!
It doesn't support HDMI!
It doesn't support audio!
It doesn't support an auxiliary channel (USB or touch screen, for example, would have another cable).
They're the only ones manufacturing it, but there are no adapters available (to HDMI, S-Video, DisplayPort, etc).
No improvement in 3mm difference.
Will this suffice?
How often do you need to drive a display larger than 2560x1600? How many companies even sell displays that go beyond 2560x1600?
It's a computer, not a set-top box. If you want to watch stuff on your TV with an Apple product, get an iPod or an AppleTV.
It's a DisplayPort, not an AudioPort, not an AVPort, not an AuxiliaryPort, and not an AllInOnePort. If you want audio, use the audio-out port. If you want to plug in other accessories, use USB or FireWire.
If Apple's licensing the port for free, that means other companies will be able to make adapters. Right now Apple's the only one using it, so it seems only right that they're the only one selling anything for it.
The people who will see the benefit of having a smaller port are the people who see the benefit of a thinner laptop, a smaller car, or a lighter bike. If you just don't care about that kind of stuff then why would you be complaining anyway?
It looks like it is smaller by 1mm... so it really, it has no benefits and other companies are busy adopting the excellent new standard the displayport which Apple agreed on with a bunch of other companies.
The size difference is 1-3mm..do you even know how small that is?
Unless your laptop is like 5mm big the size difference in the port won't even make a difference in the overall size of the laptop.
Please...
Unless your laptop is like 5mm big the size difference in the port won't even make a difference in the overall size of the laptop.
Please...
Sorry, but the height difference is about 0.6mm but the width is over 8mm. Seeing how the MDP is only 8.3mm in width, that's pretty significant as it's over 50% reduction is width. So you have a port that is taking up 50% less area, seems like a good thing to me.
Also, as my laptop only has about 18mm of vertical working space, 1mm is a significant percentage of that space.
Unless your laptop is like 5mm big the size difference in the port won't even make a difference in the overall size of the laptop.
Please...
Lol...Excellent reply.
Unless your laptop is like 5mm big the size difference in the port won't even make a difference in the overall size of the laptop.
Please...
Sorry, but the height difference is about 0.6mm but the width is over 8mm. Seeing how the MDP is only 8.3mm in width, that's pretty significant as it's over 50% reduction is width. So you have a port that is taking up 50% less area, seems like a good thing to me.
Also, as my laptop only has about 18mm of vertical working space, 1mm is a significant percentage of that space.
0.6mm is about 3% of that space. Hardly significant.
As for the width: Completely irrelevant. There is more than enough room for it in that direction.
Also, as my laptop only has about 18mm of vertical working space, 1mm is a significant percentage of that space.
Oh really? Because the height of the port takes up the ENTIRE width of the macbook.....oh no wait it doesn't and theres empty space on top and below it. Making the port smaller by 0.6mm will not change the width of the laptop at all.
Point proved.
Also, as my laptop only has about 18mm of vertical working space, 1mm is a significant percentage of that space.
Oh really? Because the height of the port takes up the ENTIRE width of the macbook.....oh no wait it doesn't and theres empty space on top and below it. Making the port smaller by 0.6mm will not change the width of the laptop at all.
Point proved.
Try fitting DisplayPort into a MacBook Air. Width is an issue with that computer.
If that latch was put just a tiny (and by tiny i mean less than a mm) higher. A display port will fit in perfectly. There is enough space above the latch for it to be raised.
Unless your laptop is like 5mm big the size difference in the port won't even make a difference in the overall size of the laptop.
Please...
If you would've actually done your homework you'd realize the full-size DisplayPort is 4.8mm x 16.1mm (+/- some insignificant fraction of a millimetre), while Apple's Mini DisplayPort is 4.5mm x 7.4mm.
Apple's MDP is less than half the size of DP. It may not make much of a difference on some computers, where you have a few square feet for ports, but on smaller computers like netbooks and ultra-mobiles it could make enough room for some extra ports.
Also, as my laptop only has about 18mm of vertical working space, 1mm is a significant percentage of that space.
Oh really? Because the height of the port takes up the ENTIRE width of the macbook.....oh no wait it doesn't and theres empty space on top and below it. Making the port smaller by 0.6mm will not change the width of the laptop at all.
Point proved.
The height isn't the important dimension, it's the width that is significant here.
Unless your laptop is like 5mm big the size difference in the port won't even make a difference in the overall size of the laptop.
Please...
Sorry, but the height difference is about 0.6mm but the width is over 8mm. Seeing how the MDP is only 8.3mm in width, that's pretty significant as it's over 50% reduction is width. So you have a port that is taking up 50% less area, seems like a good thing to me.
Also, as my laptop only has about 18mm of vertical working space, 1mm is a significant percentage of that space.
0.6mm is about 3% of that space. Hardly significant.
As for the width: Completely irrelevant. There is more than enough room for it in that direction.
THe width is actually extremely relevant... take a look at the ports on the left of the MacBook, see where they line up. If you kept the standard DisplayPort, then you've had to get rid of one of the USB ports or make the laptop about 10~12mm bigger.
Here's a link for you to look at of the internals and how the width is extremely significant as it's the difference between 1 or 2 USB ports: http://www.macnn.com/articles/08/10/16/new.macbook.teardown/.
You really are ignorant, aren't you? Apple introduced the one button mouse with the Lisa in 1983, and a year later with the Macintosh. Back then, they were the only company shipping mice with their computers, and the OS only made use of one button. Only with OS X did the use of two button mice become common.
awsome, thanks!
The LED Cinema Display attaches to your new MacBook, MacBook Pro, or MacBook Air using the new industry-standard Mini DisplayPort connector. Other display connectors have you lining up pins or fumbling with screws. But the Mini DisplayPort connector is easy in, easy out.
LOL!? Industry-standard? Right...
The DisplayPort is really small, and I see no improvement in the miniDisplayPort 3mm difference... PLUS, compared to DisplayPort:
It supports up to 2560x1600, the DisplayPort supports up to 4096×2160!
It doesn't support HDMI!
It doesn't support audio!
It doesn't support an auxiliary channel (USB or touch screen, for example, would have another cable).
They're the only ones manufacturing it, but there are no adapters available (to HDMI, S-Video, DisplayPort, etc).
We already have the industry standards which are good (e.g. DVI, HDMI), there's really no need for the DisplayPort. Where does it stop? An Apple-created Ethernet port? Apple-created audio port (dubbed 'AudioPort'
In this day, computers manufactures should be adopting a more integrated and more compatible approach. This is a move in the opposite direction.
I've also been a Mac user for years, so I'm not anti-Apple.
Well reading about DisplayPort you understand that is really a strandard or try to be, Is the real competition to DB-15.
We know that DVI try this but not in the same way, DisplayPost should be standard in all new hardware and does not have the limitation of HDMI, also don't need the pay for new royalties.
But what is a Standard is what you have to ask yourself?.
A product that is open I can be use by everybody, a product which is release by a consoltium or something that is massive use it?.
Regards
Oh the horror of another Editorial that sounds like someone complaining. Why not write something on the lines of how Apple screwed over their faithful users by removing firewire and making target disk mode horrid for file transfer as you need a special USB cable or over wireless if you use a MacBook Air.
Got one at work a week or so and was like WTF?... the HDMI port mutated?
Apple's adapter prices are astronomical too, i hope someone smart starts using these tech schematics to make a uber cheap low maintenance miniDP->DP adapter
Unlike say the astronomically expensive DVI -> HDMI adapters.. but those are expensive cuase of licensing issues right? Right? right..
That's exactly what I was thinking. DP is just too big for that machine.
When Apple first came out with color Mac's in 1987 they used a D-sub/DA-15 connector for their video, instead of the then standard VGA connector. Apple's monitors were horribly expensive at the time, and a market of adapters quickly sprung up. I was doing desktop support at the time, and was plagued by this until finally moving into the back-office arena. It was a real huge pain in the ass. Not only that, but they changed the standard when the Quadra 700 came out, doing a sync-on-green or some such that caused a whole new type of adapter to come out.
So, 21 years later, they are still up to the same old crap. Customers suffer, IT curses them for being non-standard, and Apple wonders why they only have 8.9% of the market....They should have just stuck with DisplayPort. While annoying in its infancy, it is at least a recognized industry standard that is more likely to be adopted and cause less headache later on.
P.S.: Before one of you Apple Fanboys flames me for being a soulless spawn of Gates, realize that I first started using a Mac in February of 1984, have personally owned five. I just got sick and tired of the proprietary crap, especially after the Mac clone debacle, and switched to Windows/Intel-standard hardware where I have more of a choice and control over the system I use.
Mad respect for being old school.
Running for my life...................
Quick! Before the trolls find this!
It doesn't support HDMI!
It doesn't support audio!
It doesn't support an auxiliary channel (USB or touch screen, for example, would have another cable).
They're the only ones manufacturing it, but there are no adapters available (to HDMI, S-Video, DisplayPort, etc).
No improvement in 3mm difference.
Please Point me out if i am wrong, but.
1. No, DisplayPort 1.2 or 2.0 will support 4K resolution with computer refresh rate. Currently 1.1 only support up to 2560 x 1600.
2. What do you mean by supporting HDMI? UDI was compatible with HDMI, not DisplayPort.
3. Audio? It does support it by spec but no one is using it. Reason below.
4. Auxiliary channel, Again it is supported by spec but no one is using it.
Point 1, 2 , and 4 will properly be solved by 1.2 where it will have double the bandwidth. Or Later for Point 4 in version 2.0 when USB 2.0 controller to be integrated inside. Offering USB 2.0 bandwidth.
Mini DisplayPort was on the roadmap in DisplayPort. I dont know why Displayport group never release it. There were also a Micro DisplayPort in the work as well. And the Dongle work much like Mini / Micro USB. So it should be fairly cheap to manufacture compare to Mini DVI.
To be honest i dont see what is all the fuss about it.
Try:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_DisplayPort
It seems to disagree.
Try:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_DisplayPort
It seems to disagree.
And if you could point out which part of Wiki point out my info was wrong?
Try:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_DisplayPort
It seems to disagree.
And if you could point out which part of Wiki point out my info was wrong?
You are not wrong, the other guy is. The mini displayport and the full-sized display port support the exact same wiring, the wiring locations are just different.
The difference between the two is still significant though. It is less that 1mm less in height, but it's just about 50% of the width.
The worst of all seems to be the Dual-Link DVI adapter, which Apple has recently pulled for some reason so people with 30" screens just can't connect them to their new Macbooks. But what makes the Dual-Link DVI crazy is that it requires a USB port for power or something. Considering the computers have only two USB ports this is pretty annoying.
The size benefits over regular DP are small enough that IMO it would have made no difference if the full size port was used. The regular DP connector isn't significantly larger than a USB port.
The worst of all seems to be the Dual-Link DVI adapter, which Apple has recently pulled for some reason so people with 30" screens just can't connect them to their new Macbooks. But what makes the Dual-Link DVI crazy is that it requires a USB port for power or something. Considering the computers have only two USB ports this is pretty annoying.
The size benefits over regular DP are small enough that IMO it would have made no difference if the full size port was used. The regular DP connector isn't significantly larger than a USB port.
Yet DisplayPorts width prevents it from fitting in the MacBook Air. Also, any 3rd party can manufacture adapters without paying Apple a dime.
I agree, there really isn't anything to gripe about this time. Mini DisplayPort simply isn't a closed standard like MiniDVI was/is.
Digix I expected more of you
Apple is not using the DisplayPort, but their own version of it.
Most of us already used to HDMI, the rest of companies are playing a fairer game and slowly introducing displayport so we don't need adapters and what not nightmare.
Apple learned that their customers are suckers, so they going for the kill.
Complainning about the Mini Display Port only Apple uses fine. Acting like only Apple is doing **** like this not so much.
If you want to be taken seriously stick to realistic, rational and UN-biased journalism. Otherwise your credibility is very hard to maintain.
Anyway, Apple can do whatever they want. Who cares? Ultimately the consumer controls the market with their wallet. If you don't like laptops with "mini" ports, don't buy them. It really is that simple. As already mentioned, this is hardly a new concept at Apple. Take it or leave it. Or buy the adapter. This is not a difficult situation.
If you want to be taken seriously stick to realistic, rational and UN-biased journalism. Otherwise your credibility is very hard to maintain.
Anyway, Apple can do whatever they want. Who cares? Ultimately the consumer controls the market with their wallet. If you don't like laptops with "mini" ports, don't buy them. It really is that simple. As already mentioned, this is hardly a new concept at Apple. Take it or leave it. Or buy the adapter. This is not a difficult situation.
Again, agreed.
People must be building igloos in hell.
People actually buy the macbook air? And btw there is enough space to fit the full display port in the macbook air.
Great research there too.
Great research there too.
I don't see any research from either of you. Any proof on either side? My bet is that DisplayPort won't fit in the pull down latch. There isn't much room there.
My ****ty late 2007 MBP was the first and last thing I bought from Apple.
My ****ty late 2007 MBP was the first and last thing I bought from Apple.
What is not overpriced in the computer world ?
Apple makes perfectly fine products. I would buy an Apple laptop way before one sold by Toshiba.
Adobe products are overpriced.
Microsoft computer products are overpriced.
Logitech gamer products are way overpriced
All computer products targeting gamers are WAY overpriced.
All software made by big companies are overpriced to death.
iPod and Zune are both overpriced but very good mp3 players. BOTH.
Last time i owned an Apple laptop was something like 10 years ago. I was entirely satisfied with it.
Overpriced ? yes. Crap ? not from my own experience.
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