Marshymellow: Neowin staff, 'just a bunch of fanboys'

"This site is bias towards [insert any company name here], you're all just a bunch of fanboys!"

We get this attack, and others like it, levied against us so often it's beginning to make my head hurt. It comes from any side that feels we've wronged them in some way, when we post any type of news they don't agree with or when our forum staff moderate a thread in a way they feel is against their particular view.

It's happened forever, and this editorial will in no way stop it. However, it may change a few minds and give people pause. Hopefully it will make a few realize that... we have no agenda, I promise, we're not out to get you.

Staff Poll
Recently I did a poll, in which nearly all of our staffers participated in. The results of the poll were of absolutely no surprise to me, but it proved what I've believed and expressed to others for a long time...

If we tried to have an agenda, we'd have a hard time agreeing on what it would be.

The polls were a couple simple questions about operating system preferences and from it I was able to come up with some interesting statistics. The first question I asked centered on what staffers considered to be their primary desktop operating system, given the option of Windows, Mac OS X and Linux/BSD.

Wait a second; I thought we were trying to prove we didn't have a bias? Stay with me for a second...

It's obvious from the first poll that Windows is the dominant primary operating system of choice for our staffers. This should come as a surprise to very few people, considering the name of the site is Neowin. It should also come as little surprise considering the overall market share that Microsoft enjoys compared to Apple.

But there is a second element to my polling, and it asked staffers to identify their secondary, or backup desktop operating system. Maybe it's their laptop they take with them when they're on the go or on the couch, a system they use from time to time, or that they dual boot with or run in a virtual machine.

Doh! There is that pesky blue section of the chart again rearing it's ugly head. So, from the original 31% who said they used Mac OS X as their primary OS, the overwhelming majority of them used Windows as well.

It would seem I'm doing a good job disproving my point. Except, that this result is typical of most Mac users, especially now that they've been running on Intel processors, virtualization has become common place and Boot Camp is easily available.

You also need to look at the other side of the coin. What did those Windows users say when asked to identify their other OS.

There's our good friend Linux at 50%. Half of the staffers, who responded that Windows was their primary OS, said Linux was their backup. In addition, another 17% said they also identified themselves as a Mac user. This only leaves 1/3 of those users that identified themselves as strictly Windows users on all their systems. But even those users commented that they have used Linux and Mac OS X in the past, but just are not currently using it.

Incase you were wondering, what was the most popular Linux/BSD distro among Neowin staffers was, I asked that too, just of those people.

What does this mean?
Take a look at all these colors, stats and charts. Remember what is the one thing that I want you to take away from all of it?

If we tried to have an agenda, we'd have a hard time agreeing on what it would be.

Very few members of our staff use one OS exclusively. If one day, we decided that we were going to cover and support only one operating system, technology platform, company, it would be impossible for us to come up with one to pick, even if it was Windows.


Actually, we would have a hard time especially if it was Windows. See that 22%? Tell me how that 22% could possibly take over and drive the direction of the rest of the site. Very few of our administrators, supervisors and my fellow editors fall into that 22%. I don't. On top of that, out of our development team NONE of them fall into that area. Actually, with the exception of one developer, they all identified themselves as primarily Mac OS X users. It would be pretty hard to run this site without the people who design and code it.

Staffers at Neowin have been, and forever will be, encouraged to explore multiple platforms. Why wouldn't they? Why wouldn't you? The world is too small to be locked in to one way of thinking or looking at software. That software must be proprietary, or open source, or from Microsoft, or from Apple. We don't make any demands of our staffers to use, or not to use, any platform or distribution and they can make those choice as they see fit.

There is no plot to sell more copies of Windows. There is no plot here to make Apple look bad. There is no plot to promote any specific distribution of Linux. There is no plot to do... anything. We're geeks, we're geeks who run a website and we have things that we like to write about. We find interesting things and we talk about them in the forums. We Twitter about our experiences with those technologies and we talk about them with others.

We report the news, and occasionally we make editorial comments about the news. We try and present a balanced view of all different operating system, software and hardware technologies. Sometimes, we cover some topics more than others... there is nothing intentional or underhanded about it, it's just what happens to be in the news and be of interest to our writers.

Unlike most news sites, we don't generally assign stories to writers. The editors here allow writers to come up with story ideas, present them for approval, and then we post them to the site. We don't reject stories based on the fact that "it's anti-Apple" or "it's anti-Microsoft" or anything of that sort. We don't get any kickbacks from Microsoft for reporting good news, and we don't have a secret Redmond phone line we can use to call them up for the latest information and directives.

Things you see reviewed on this website, they are almost always items we've purchased personally because we find them interesting. When we don't purchase the item, we have a strict policy of giving the product back or giving them away to our members in one of our many giveaways. The only thing we gain from it, is the ability to use the technology and share our experience with our visitors.

And that is exactly what we do, we put things out there that we find interesting and that we think our visitors will find interesting. We look for a lot of diversity in our staffing, but we've never used it as a basis for hiring or firing anyone. There is no requirement to use (or not use) Windows, or Mac OS X, or Linux.

I'd like to be able to tell you that we were far more organized, and that we had this "Vast Neo-wing Conspiracy" to promote or to take down something, but we don't. We're too busy playing with the latest technologies to really care.

"Marsh, Mellow" is a new column about life and technology by Neowin Managing Editor, Michael Stanclift (Marshalus)

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122 Comments

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I am utterly amazed at the number of negative comments in this thread...including mine!

Look at things this way:

- If you don't like what you're seeing on the news channel on TV that you're watching, you have the right to change channels.

- If you don't like the way your newspaper reports the news or the articles in it, you have the right to cancel your subscription and to not read that particular newspaper.

People that complain about the News sections of this site are absolutely out-of-touch with reality. The people who own, manage and operate this site have the ultimate right to post, edit, editorialize, report and throw up for discussion whatever they wish; IT'S THEIRS!. If you don't like how things are done here or how the site is run, then you, as shown in the two examples above, have the ultmate right to not come here; no one is forcing you to be here, no one has tied your hands or is threatening you to STAY. If you're here to try to "raise awareness" by complaining and whining, you're going to loose six ways to Sunday.

As for me: I applaud the staff here for being one of the top Tech sites on the Interwebs. +100,000,000

Just because this site uses Mac and Linux doesn't mean it's not biased. Ever since I got a nice graphics card (GeForce 8600GT, factory OC'd) I've been dual booting to Windows 7 quite often, for games, of course. But I am not very far from an Apple fanboy. I like everything Mac, I use an iPod, I'm going to get an iPhone as SOON as I have a steady job (Don't get me started on how sick I am of Verizon and their ****ty phones), and I just got a MobileMe account (though I admit it's because a friend got a Family Pack and so I'm not paying for it, but if I had a steady job I probably would be) My point is that you can be a Mac lover and still use Windows. And considering the likely age group of this site, (I'm guessing most members, especially staff, are in their late teens to mid-twenties) I betcha most of these Mac + Windows users are gamers. Really, most of the news I see here is either non-Windows bashing or just plain stupid (ZOMG!!1!!ONE TEENAGER USED A BAZILLION TEXTSSS, for instance)

I used to love Neowin, back when I first joined. Now I can't really say I do so much anymore... Don't get me wrong, I'm sure many, if not most, of the current Neowin members are still pretty cool, but the fact that the news was the main thing I used Neowin for means I rarely go here anymore, except when a friend of mine links me to news articles here (ugh)

If you have someone who hates Mac OS X posting OS X news, and someone who hates Windows posting Windows news then you can have bubbles of bias even if the whole story shows a multi-Hardware news team.

Quote:
Just because you have Black people working at your Business doesn't mean there are not racist people at your business.

To say that Neowin itself as a whole has a bias against anything is wrong but to say bias does not exsist is absurd, the news is posted by many different people and some of those either consciously or unconsciously are going to be biased one way or another which makes the news not only inconsistent but bias on some (not all) occasions.

I do have a Question of my own. Does Neowin have an editing body that is made to read and expect every news item that is to be posted before it is posted so they can edit it to make it unbiased before posting? - If you don't might I suggest creating one. And I do mean people who inspect and then allow things to be posted, not people who read and judge it after the fact.

Interesting article as someone who has always been way to excited about technology and some sci-fi stuff (just like everyone els on this site). 802.11n bluetooth 3.0 SSD hd Wirless usb?? usb 3.x? (holographic display's) touch screen ipod touch. Blu-Ray! etc. :-) love the quality! moves look awesome in it! and all the really cool stuff thats going to come out!
I was wondering.???
does mac os have that activation? I noticed mac software uses serial # to install software just as the windows side does.
but what about its os? I reinstalled it once and it did not ask for a serial. so? if you buy the box (the os) from the store and install it
does it ask for a #? i think the mac os x server side ask for a serial but the consumer sides does not? (not sure) does it activate? im just curious as to how it works (from the technological stand point).. xp iv reinstalled over 400 times. iv got the process memorized (99.9% of the case it works well!).. but for mac im not sure.. anyone know? id really would like to know how its setup. linux was cool to install i liked its setup.. the gui was good and the setup was easy. not to many questions.
as far as xp iv used xp home, pro, server 2003. (nice os) really pushy on the hole "speed" idea.

as far as operating systems go there is no "better" they are all different.. and each bring something to the table just like there is no better car/house/person/pet//etc.. each item/thought/idea in this world has its pro and con.. "just depends on whats right for you"
here are my thoughts on each os. a very balanced and realistic view.. right? tell me if im wrong.. id like to know what im missing.
xp is very good at compatibility.. lots and lots of hardware to do some kick ass cool stuff! as well as software to! and lots of games! kind of a one size fits all. Imagine going to a clothing store and every product magically adjust its size to fit your body! cool eh? yes very! doesn't matter the quality (high or low) or price (high or low) it just fits! thats "xp" so in a sense xp is a one-size fits all kinda deal.. no looking or searching to see if its compatible.. thats not xp (Microsoft) style old or new 99.9% chance it will work.
and server 2003 runs fast to.. (as its designed that way from what iv noticed)
linux is more of a developer operating system using the terminal to build stuff great for engineers and do it your self'ers not like xp where one size fits all but its kinda like your at the construction size and your gona build your dream project! "very cool for engineers!" (not the best method for end users, unless you really want to mess with it) and to be honest i like linux but im not a developer so its just not something i'll use a lot. but i do like it. oh and the 3'rd viewpoint mac os.
mac os X is.. how do i put this.. geared toward the luxury market. its not a plastic computer its a solid block of allium...
thus its more expensive "aka apple tax" the inside components are "somewhat" higher end.. its a user friendly GUI like xp however it doesn't have the compatibility like xp its not a one size fits all due to its small market share it has some products and a lot of opensouce alternatives you can use to get to get the job done. gps software is a pain in the ass to find for mac for example!
its kinda a mix really between linux and xp.. its really linux with a consumer friendly approach. is really what it is. just like ubuntu but farther along "a bit". is it the perfect product? no.. worst product? no.. its just kinda their? with its high price tag "aka apple tax" it is geared toward the luxury market or the image of the ultimate computer... kinda funny actuly.. linux is free yet apple is expensive (go figure to extremes there) there software isn't to expensive on the mac side. linux + xp = mac? kinda i guess? so am i right? wrong?
so as you can see there is no Better product.. just different goals for different needs. one size fits all.. xp.. extremely smart engineer type.. "linux" creative type they say? (mac os x??)
my personal perference? I hones'tly really love the way xp handels folders managment.. and application switching.
mac i like the look and feel of the gui.. whats better? whats worse? neither one.. small cars are good for parking spots
big cars are better for going faster on the freeway.. there is no "better" only what am i trying to do and what product best fits my needs.. am i right? wrong? im trying to give a fair honest view on the 3.


Its a lot of the members who are fanboys and the biased ones. I don't enter some sections of the forums just because of the fanboys,

I added Neowin to my list of things to watch back in 2003 because the news writers seemed quite impartial. I even joined your news writer team because I wanted to contribute.

However, around about that time (2008) you had a few (a minority I know) vocal mac supporters on your writing team who were quite influential. Unfortunately, they often gave biased reports (generally in the form of no negative - many positive articles). Of course, it's their choice in what article they write and as a mac supporter, they mostly wrote positive articles for them.

I am just saying that if this attack of emails about being a "bunch of fanboys" is only recent: perhaps there is a reason for that? Perhaps the site has become more biased now, due to a vocal minority. Maybe it would do some good to monitor what articles are being produced so that you don't censor valid news items that may be negative towards a certain company -- a company that your most active news writers support.

For instance, I am pro-linux but if there is a new event about linux that is important to the readership, I would not filter out the negative stories. There is absolutely no reason for that and it is biased.

And for what it's worth, I got removed for 'sharing information from a private forum' though I did no such thing in any way, shape or form. I simply mentioned that there were some mac supporters on the team but I also defended them -- it wasn't related to any forum posts.

We report the news, and occasionally we make editorial comments about the news. We try and present a balanced view of all different operating system, software and hardware technologies. Sometimes, we cover some topics more than others... there is nothing intentional or underhanded about it, it's just what happens to be in the news and be of interest to our writers.

Of course they are missing the point of the problem. The problem is how to show a news, or how is the difference between a news, a flamebait and a fud. And of course, the lack of real information (if it is not completely wrong).

While is hard to be 100% partial but it is possible to do it. For example, i have a dog and i love dogs, but i am not discarded to write a nice article about cats, and i don't need to do any comparison between a dog and a cat even when i personally prefer to own a dog.


Anyways, UAE Journalism Code of Ethics:

1. Respect the truth and the right of the public to have access to the true and accurate information.
2. While performing his duty, the journalist is demanded to commit himself at all times to the principles of freedom and integrity in gathering and publishing stories. He should also voice fair and neutral comments and criticism.
3. A journalist must only publish facts from sources known to him, and must not hide any basic and important information, forge facts of falsify documents.
4. He should use only legitimate means to obtain information, photos and documents from original sources.
5. Publishing news and information of pictures must be examined carefully for accuracy, and their true meaning must not be altered by editing, title or photo comment. All documents must be edited accurately, and any uncertified reports, rumours or speculations must be reported as such. If re-edited or reproduced material was used as a symbolic picture, it should be made clear through the comment that it is not a documentary picture.
6. Journalists undertake to rectify any published information that proved to be wrong and harmful to others.
7. There should be no compromise in credibility.
8. Respecting privacy is a main principle in the profession and journalists should respect the privacy of individuals and not expose it by publishing any thing without the consent of those individuals. If personal conduct over crosses with public interest, such conduct may be covered without violating the personal rights of uninvolved individuals.
9. In regards to the news source, the code and charter stress that Professionalism and confidentiality should be strictly observed if the source demands anonymity. The journalist has every right to present evidence or expose their source without the source's consent.
10. Journalists should not seek to provoke or inflame public feelings by any means or use means of excitement and deception or dishonest reporting. They should not use media organs for purpose of libel or slandering.
11. The edited publications should not be influenced by personal interests or businesses with a third party. Publishers and editors-in-chief must turn down any such attempts, and draw a clear line between reported stories and commercial articles or publications.
12. Journalists should be very vigilant to traps of discrimination and avoid involving themselves by any means in any stories hinting to discrimination of race, sex, language, faith or national and social backgrounds.
13. They must be aware that a suspect is innocent until proven guilty, thus names and photos of suspects should not be published until a final verdict is issued.
14. In crimes and issues dealing with children, names and photos should not be published.
15. Journalists must be very careful in their personal relationships with news sources so as these bonds can not impact the Partiality.
16. The media should refrain from publishing photos of brutal violence and respect the feeling of the public especially children.
17. Journalists are urged to avoid using offending and obscene language in their reports.
18. Islam is a basic and important component of UAE culture, values and traditions, and the respect of divine religions and traditions and values of nations takes centre stage at the mandatory code of ethics of the media and should not be offended or desecrated by any forms.
19. Human rights should also be respected and valued and should not be abused by the media under any pretext.
20. Plagiarism, ill-intention interpretation, libel, slandering, censure, defamation, allegation and accepting bribery to publish or hide information are all dangerous professional violations.
21. When using facts published by competitors, journalists must give credit to the competitor.
22. Competing for news, pictures and information is a right, provided practicing such competition is honest and clear and does not hinder the work of colleagues in competing publications.
23. A journalist has to do his best not to become part of a story, and to cover news not make them. While gathering information, a journalist may not present himself as anything other than a journalist.
24. Coverage of medical cases must not be sensational, as this can lead to spreading fear or unrealistic hope among readers. Publishing the first stage of results of researches and medical achievements must not be portrayed as final and undisputed.
25. Journalists must not acquire information or pictures through harassment, temptation or violence.
26. Accepting valuable cash and kind gifts may cause a journalist to be biased in his coverage and is considered breach of the code. This does not apply to souvenir gifts given to the public.

I am not saying that any news-writer of Neowin is completely bad or wrong, but there are awful example of news that don't meet a qualification to be considered as readable, specially some news that are rebated/debunked by another staff (and sometimes during the same day).

I casually note that no actual numbers were present.

While I applaud the staff for trying to explain it, numbers would've made the case a bit more solid!

(I don't think you're biased btw) - Much :P jokes!

Sam Symons said,
Seriously though, whilst I'm glad to see this article up, it also saddens me at the same time because it has to be here.

But it didn't *have* to be here did it? It is here because, I suspect, the author thought that it would be great to show hundreds of other people that they are completely wrong, while the staff are completely right. It's that age old battle between staff and members again, just done with a little more polish.

Really, in a sense, he is doing what many other people on Neowin do - trying to get his point heard above all others - whether it be in comments or in the forums.

Nothing will change as a result of this article and I fail to see that it added anything productive, other than filling some space. Needed? Not at all.

Really though, this was a good read. Hopefully this will at least shut up some of the fanboys. I'll admit I'm somewhat of a MS fan, but I also use Linux and various open source software... and I don't go around spreading lies.

Why do you get attacked a lot? Quite simple, it's an equal distance from the extremes to the center as it is from the center to the extremes. To the radicals, you look like radicals.

Recon415 said,
Wut?? No Linux Mint user amongst the staffers??

No primary Linux users amongst the staffers!

Dang. I should have stayed on-staff. There would be one "Linux, and only Linux" staff member at least. :P

I have no problem with the rules, Magallanes. They're very reasonable and it's not like that went out and hired some Nazis to moderate the forums.

I do, however, take issue with the way the rules are enforced. Specificly, it's the arbitrary way that they're enforced that I have a problem with. You write something that one of the mods doesn't like, and suddenly your warning level goes up. No hearing, no appeal, no nothing. And don't try and argue with the mod: That'll just make things worse. Seriously: There needs to be more oversight exercised over the moderators.

[< snipped > - Calum. Please type in English only, thank you :)]
[Also, you may benefit from reading my reply below as it seems you are misunderstood :)]

Airlink said,
I do, however, take issue with the way the rules are enforced. Specificity, it's the arbitrary way that they're enforced that I have a problem with. You write something that one of the mods doesn't like, and suddenly your warning level goes up. No hearing, no appeal, no nothing. And don't try and argue with the mod: That'll just make things worse. Seriously: There needs to be more oversight exercised over the moderators.

[< snipped > - Calum]

Agreed.

Airlink said,
I have no problem with the rules, Magallanes. They're very reasonable and it's not like that went out and hired some Nazis to moderate the forums.

I do, however, take issue with the way the rules are enforced. Specificly, it's the arbitrary way that they're enforced that I have a problem with. You write something that one of the mods doesn't like, and suddenly your warning level goes up. No hearing, no appeal, no nothing. And don't try and argue with the mod: That'll just make things worse. Seriously: There needs to be more oversight exercised over the moderators.


Members are only warned if they break the rules. They are not warned if a moderator disagrees with their view. The only thing which makes things worse is attacking the moderator personally. Members are encouraged to discuss their warnings via personal message maturely if they disagree with it, but personal attacks on staff, just like personal attacks on members, will not be tolerated.

I see no unfairness in that

Calum said,
Members are only warned if they break the rules. They are not warned if a moderator disagrees with their view.

That's pretty much bull****.

And still the fanboys complain.

Neowin are fairly impartial in my opinion. The mods do a good job of been even handing when breaking up the squabbling groups of children, bickering about Microsoft or Apple in my opinion. Certainly I've never observed over-heavy moderation in terms of the attitude displayed when dealing with fanboyism towards one particular platform.

It hurts though. I've said it before but it hurts having to see the fine folks who run Neowin having to somehow prove that they're impartial where possible yet whilst trying to retain their own identity and express PREFERENCES without being lynched by the baying (and usually grossly misinformed) mob.

It seems to be getting worse but I hope one day we finally manage to shoo the fanboys and have a somewhat more easy going and FACTS BASED forum where people can talk about differences between products objectively without getting emotionally involved.

Chicane-UK said,
It seems to be getting worse but I hope one day we finally manage to shoo the fanboys and have a somewhat more easy going and FACTS BASED forum where people can talk about differences between products objectively without getting emotionally involved.

While we're at it, can I have a pony? :D

Seriously now, I can agree that the tantrums 'n' tiaras can get tiresome especially on the selfsame kinds of thread that attract the "fanboy" accusations; but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Disciplined, measured discussion firmly grounded in fact, and a complete absence of baseless rhetoric or overwrought tit-for-tat driven purely by emotional over-attachment (or booze)? Doesn't sound like my kinda party, to be honest.

Seconded. Very well written, and I'm glad to see most of the guys 'n' gals in the comments agreeing. Guess you can't call bias when it's an article on how we have no agenda, though. I'm sure soon enough we'll need another one of these...

Michael failed at using readable font on pie chart ... but they are cute ;)

Hell I am a Gentoo Linux, XP, Android, Windows7, Vista, BeOS fanboy... can I get slice of pie ?

Hm.. wait a minute... pie charts.... pie.... most common ingredient in pie is apples... apple pie is yummy....

OMG!!!!!! I see the agenda now!

Need to find the nearest Apple store for some pie^M^Mapple products ...

Thanks for opening my eyes to this evil plan

The staff really aren't biased, I'll give them that. That doesn't mean they aren't entitled to their own opinions though. The real difference is that they BASE THEIR OPINIONS ON EXPERIENCE OR FACTS as opposed to many of the jackasses who bash companies and products they've NEVER bothered to try, much less look at.

I simply can't stand these people that bash companies or products for no reason. They eat up whatever their favorite company dishes out, believing all of it to be truth. They have NO opinion of their own, except that [X] company rocks, and everything else sucks. They sit there with their dumb coffee mug that perhaps has "Genius At Work" written on it, laughing at all the so called "inferior trash" and posting nothing but flamebait begging to start an unnecessary/pointless argument. Even worse yet, they'll never take anything you say seriously, much less apply any real logic to anything they have to say.

I suppose I could share my thoughts on what should be done with these people, but I'll leave that to everyone else's imagination.

dead.cell said,
The staff really aren't biased, I'll give them that. That doesn't mean they aren't entitled to their own opinions though. The real difference is that they BASE THEIR OPINIONS ON EXPERIENCE OR FACTS as opposed to many of the jackasses who bash companies and products they've NEVER bothered to try, much less look at.

I simply can't stand these people that bash companies or products for no reason. They eat up whatever their favorite company dishes out, believing all of it to be truth. They have NO opinion of their own, except that [X] company rocks, and everything else sucks. They sit there with their dumb coffee mug that perhaps has "Genius At Work" written on it, laughing at all the so called "inferior trash" and posting nothing but flamebait begging to start an unnecessary/pointless argument. Even worse yet, they'll never take anything you say seriously, much less apply any real logic to anything they have to say.

I suppose I could share my thoughts on what should be done with these people, but I'll leave that to everyone else's imagination. :)


If I had a theme song, these would be the damned lyrics I tell you.

Marshalus said,
Not true, if you look around you'll see line and bar graphs as well. We're equal opportunity graphers. ;)

I retract my statement then.

But, I have a new one!

This site is bias towards charts and graphs, you're all just a bunch of fanboys!

I win.

This site has never really been bias. Thats why i paid for membership. This site is also my home page. Now i can name some other popular tech sites that have bias .

I think you should be more worried if you don't get fanboy accusations -- if they ever stop, you'll know you have become so bland as to have lost any reason why people would visit your service over others.

I personally don't visit neowin on the assumption that you will be blindly exactly even in your reporting. I visit you because what you do report is well written, and because I think that even the opinions that don't jive with my own are well stated. Keep doing that and I'll keep subscribing, regardless of what you do/don't cover, and regardless of the stance you take on it.

I still like the pretty pie charts though

I was supposed to make really pretty pie charts in iWork, but Marshy denied me :(

Stupid Windows bias on this site, I guess >.>

the thing that ****s me off about this site the most is that it goes crazy of the latest build number of a beta operating system, but new things that get released such as silverlight 3 beta, visual studio 2010 ctp etc don't even get a look in..

the staffing is amazing, the community is awesome... they just need to grow up a little. I mean, c# 4 got announced and it didnt even get a thread... i would gladly pay for subscriber status in a heartbeat if there was some intelligent conversation on topics such as this

only reason i come to neowin these days is for some technology 'entertainment'

it's quite tragic. this is supposed to be a 'technology' forum?

Tom W, you missed my point.. I appreciate they get posted on the news section... but I just get the impression that the community doesn't give a crap and/or isn't interested in them...

its all SONY Vs Microsoft, or oh wow the 9999 build of windows 7 is out.. hence the bajillion page thread on said subject

it just seems, a little... immature?

maybe I am alone

BGM said,
Tom W, you missed my point.. I appreciate they get posted on the news section... but I just get the impression that the community doesn't give a crap and/or isn't interested in them...

its all SONY Vs Microsoft, or oh wow the 9999 build of windows 7 is out.. hence the bajillion page thread on said subject

it just seems, a little... immature?

maybe I am alone :(


Welcome to the beta days... this happens every single time Windows is updated. We are a tech site... what better place to discuss even the smallest changes in the OS.

I don't understand why thats immature...

Yeah it's that time of the year, we focus on Windows 7 as the majority of visitors are interested in the developments during the beta period. Once it's done with we are back to regular programming

shockz said,
Welcome to the beta days... this happens every single time Windows is updated. We are a tech site... what better place to discuss even the smallest changes in the OS.

I don't understand why thats immature...


because you and i both know that it's mostly (not all, but mostly) just people downloading it because they can for the bragging rights.. and that i certainly don't understand.

nvm, i'm in a bad mood, soz

The thing about a forum is that if you don't see a thread, you can make one ;)

Additionally, our news posts offer a similar discussion style to forum posts. Generally we don't encourage having a discussion in more than one place, so if there's something on the front page, it's talked about on the front page. Hence no forum thread.

shockz said,

Welcome to the beta days... this happens every single time Windows is updated. We are a tech site... what better place to discuss even the smallest changes in the OS.

I don't understand why thats immature...

Yeah, I've noticed that when I first visited Neowin because of Windows XP beta, then codenamed as Whistler after that I got hooked to Neowin.

Neowin's still the best, biased or not

As long as i remember it is a neowin tradition to follow windows beta's closely. I came to neowin for the first time just to follow latest windows xp beta news. back then there was no other news here other than windows ones(as much as i know). as a primary Linux user i only liked neowin more as it grew out of that to a full tech site.

BGM said,
I appreciate they get posted on the news section... but I just get the impression that the community doesn't give a crap and/or isn't interested in them...

What do those reasons have to do with Neowin's news? Or Neowin's 'bias'? You're mad at the community, not the site. This article was about the site.

It's pretty silly to think that Neowin on the whole is biased one way or the other. On an individual level, every staff member has their preference (and some appear to be heavily biased) but when you put them all together it would be hard to say that Neowin has an agenda. In fact, it makes for a nice balance and draws in such a diverse crowd that you can find information and opinions on almost anything tech. Further, most of the news articles are written from a neutral standpoint, encouraging comments and discussion from all angles.

KavazovAngel said,
Why so serious? :)

I'm sorry to hear that this thing is still happening. Some people should take things more easily.


I'm sorry, but this really requires an image as a response:


On-topic: decent article. Interesting to hear so many Neowin staff is dualbooting (or triplebooting).

I think there are other ways to be biased too. It is rather obvious in some cases. I have yet to see a post on the front page if it is negative to Google for example. Major outages are about the only thing that makes it.

BigBoy said,
I think there are other ways to be biased too. It is rather obvious in some cases. I have yet to see a post on the front page if it is negative to Google for example. Major outages are about the only thing that makes it.


The article isn't just about Operating Systems... its stating that no matter what the subject matter is... the diverstity of the staff tends to cancel out the other when it comes to bias.

Google, XBOX, Windows, etc...

BigBoy said,
I think there are other ways to be biased too. It is rather obvious in some cases. I have yet to see a post on the front page if it is negative to Google for example. Major outages are about the only thing that makes it.

Google? I think you meant to say Stardock.

We don't have a Stardock agenda, either. Just look at that 'bang on' from a few months ago.

Obviously we are grateful to Stardock for all they've done for us, and continue to do. But it's like MSNBC. They criticized Vista, but guess what that MS stands for.

You're preaching to the choir, man. I use 3 (going on 4) different versions of windows at home. After everything is set up, I'll be running OSX and a Linux Distro, also. I never assumed you guys were biased because you never come off that way. If anything, it's everyone else here (users) that are biased or "fan boys".

haha thanks man, i didnt know I could get in there more. I mean, it's true though. Have you ever seen any of these guys make a biased comment? I haven't. If you have I'll gladly get my face out of ther

I've got you beat: Win98, Win2k, Win2kAS, (2) XP, WinServ2003, WinServ2003R2, Vista, Win7, (3) OS X 10.4, Ubuntu 8.10, Sun Solaris 9, Sun Solaris 10. I am as OS agnostic, as you can plainly see, but overwhelmingly Windows. As far as NeoWin; some people just don't get it. If you don't like it and want to do nothing but complain, go away and start NeoMac.com. Windows FTW!!!

Great article. To the point in many many levels.

This site caters to everyone, from young to old, geek to non-geek. There is a reason why it has hundreds of thousands of members, and that is because it has a great community. We may not agree with each other (take that piratebay comments for example), but we come back and have many friends on here.

To you Michael, great job on your article. +1 internetz to you!

Just wanted to point out too: "Neowin, where unprofessional journalism looks better"

Haven't read it but WTF is this anyway? It's Neo WIN.

W
I
N

WIIIIIIINNNN

Get over it and never mention again.

And as for news, what do you expect? Win is the biggest player in town = more news about ms, etc... Apple is small player, less products, yadda yadda yadda = less news

FoxieFoxie said,
Haven't read it but WTF is this anyway? It's Neo WIN.

W
I
N

WIIIIIIINNNN

Get over it and never mention again.

And as for news, what do you expect? Win is the biggest player in town = more news about ms, etc... Apple is small player, less products, yadda yadda yadda = less news


Reading it first would have made more sense than posting blind just did. You'd look better, too.

And Apple doesn't have 'less' products than Microsoft; it has 'fewer' products than Microsoft.

Still, quality over quantity.

Ooh, grammar nazi-ism and fanboy-ism in one post. I'm being really mean today!.

FoxieFoxie said,
But I kinda guessed it right anyway, right?

Anyway, it's neowing = win news, not neocrap = apple news

Wouldn't it be Neopple? Or maybe it should be NeApple? Appwin?

FoxieFoxie said,
But I kinda guessed it right anyway, right?

Anyway, it's neowing = win news, not neocrap = apple news


Actually, not even close. You missed the point by so much, it's not even funny.

toadeater said,

I heard Neowin is changing its name to Kumo.

When Microsoft thought of the name kumo - they realise that kumo is a tyre company?

Breach said,
Of course you are biased -- how come you never cover my favorite OS -- OS/2?!

because OS/2 is discontinued? *LOL* why dont you add in BeOS while you are at it or VMS....

Breach said,
Of course you are biased -- how come you never cover my favorite OS -- OS/2?!

**** me, i think it was sarcasm guys... jesus

lol @ the VMS reference, I still use that, no joke!

@sys$system:shutdown is all it would take to bring the UK stock market to a nasty halt, but that would be silly really seeing as I get paid for keeping these systems up!

VMS is cool, but the GUI for it is terrible. Fantastic command line OS though.

Mild irony was all... nah Neowin's just guilty of trendy mainstreamism. Then again I doubt it would have been that popular if they focused, on say, Logo, Modula II and AS/400...