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Details surface on what data was stolen from the Pentagon

Brad Sams   on 22 April 2009 - 12:36 · 35 comments & 7623 views

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In a previous article on Neowin we reported on the data that was stolen from the Pentagon. Now, new details have surfaced about what information was taken. For the most part there is very little to worry about.

A spokesperson for Lockeed Martin explains that "They'll have very little information other than how you maintain the aircraft". Its comforting to know that the most sensitive of data is kept far away from the reaches of the internet and that only things such as manuals and other non sensitive data are kept on network accessible computers.

Cyber threats are growing and are consistently become one of the highest threats to any nation's national security. It's becoming harder and harder to track down hackers that are becoming quite effective at hiding their true locations; it could be a state sponsored hack or simply a group of individuals with a grudge, either way they are both a threat to be concerned about.

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(3 replies) #1 surrealvortex on 22 Apr 2009 - 12:48
Terabytes of information about how to maintain an aircraft! Mind boggling.
#1.1 signalpirate on 22 Apr 2009 - 19:10
it is mind boggling.. but you have to think like an american and you'll understand.
it's pretty easy to get the terabytes of data... how?

monkey see --> monkey do.. the terbytes is just a bunch of pictures hahaha
#1.2 Joshua Lee on 22 Apr 2009 - 22:07
Removed

Last edited by shockz on 23 Apr 2009 - 03:13
#1.3 eXtermia on 23 Apr 2009 - 14:05
signalpirate said,
it is mind boggling.. but you have to think like an american and you'll understand.
it's pretty easy to get the terabytes of data... how?

monkey see --> monkey do.. the terbytes is just a bunch of pictures hahaha

Considering that most U.S. Army manuals are written about at the 7th Grade level that might not be that far off ....
(4 replies) #2 Glendi on 22 Apr 2009 - 12:50
Terabytes of material on just how to mantain an aircraft? o.O
#2.1 Voteccow on 22 Apr 2009 - 12:52
Those aircraft are extremely complex
#2.2 GP007 on 22 Apr 2009 - 13:07
The F-35 is one of the most complex multipurpose jets out there thanks to it's new VTOL technology. Add to that they have 3 different models for the army, navy and air force. Each of which is a little different, the Air forces don't have VTOL iirc, while the navies does and so on.

#2.3 schwit on 22 Apr 2009 - 15:26
GP007 said,
The F-35 is one of the most complex multipurpose jets out there thanks to it's new VTOL technology. Add to that they have 3 different models for the army, navy and air force.


I think that's the Marines, not the Army.

I suspect the terabytes is also due to lots of pictures and videos.

Last edited by schwit on 22 Apr 2009 - 15:36
#2.4 eXtermia on 24 Apr 2009 - 09:35
schwit said,
I think that's the Marines, not the Army.

I suspect the terabytes is also due to lots of pictures and videos.


aww but the Marines are jsut part of the Dept Of Navy... (ducks thrown bottles and punches)... yeah yeah i know they only like the Navy Corps Man... and well perhaps the ship engineer for power requirement needs ..
(1 reply) #3 Vandalsquad on 22 Apr 2009 - 12:51
No doubt the most sensitive data isnt connected to a network, but do you belive there going to come out either way saying we lost valuable information that might pose a threat to this multi billion dollar plan? Nay.
#3.1 GP007 on 22 Apr 2009 - 13:08
On the flip side if they did, you'd know by them rushing to make changes so that whatever data was stolen is then rendered obsolete. You can't hind that sorta stuff since it'd again cost billions to change.
(2 replies) #4 Farchord on 22 Apr 2009 - 12:58
\\PENTAGON\Z$\Documents\> dir
The current drive label is PENTAGON.
The Serial number is SOMETHING-FAKE.

Aircraft Maintenance 101.doc 7 519 453 678 110 bytes

Wow, the pentagon still uses an old version of Word!?
#4.1 bradsday on 22 Apr 2009 - 13:06
Yes, as does the rest of the government. For the sake of national security, the government is very, very slow to adopting new technologies.
#4.2 mmck on 22 Apr 2009 - 13:13
They don't necessarily use an old version of word - just they use older filtypes for compatibility.

My default save type for Office is the .doc (etc.) formats not the .docx formats - as generally there is no need to save them as the new types for me - a few benefits include slightly better compression but as I only write short pieces of text etc. in word that's little to no benefit - infact when I first installed it was just an inconvenience having to reopen files to save as another type before I could send to people who don't have the latest office or .docx add-on installed including a friend who used the latest mac versions of office at the time.

Edit:

It was also extremely irritating when I was testing Office before the 2007 public release when only those invited had the build, what must have been early 2006. I'm actually waiting for the beta for what will be office 2010 , c'mon Microsoft!

Last edited by mmck on 22 Apr 2009 - 13:20
(2 replies) #5 bradsday on 22 Apr 2009 - 13:01
The sensitive material related to this and other classified projects are kept on completely seperate classified network(s), which do not ever touch the Internet. As a matter of fact, by design, the network(s) can never physically touch one another. To breach this data would require multiple layers of access, in addition to access to a terminal; which are only kept in secure areas.

As to the volumes of technical data, it was just that, technical data. Not so much on the complexities of the aircraft, but rather training orders (TOs) that provide instruction to aircraft maintainers.

All the same, this should be a real wake up call to our national leadership that we need to be more proactive to securing our nation's digital infrastructure.
#5.1 Magallanes on 22 Apr 2009 - 13:20
The DMCA was a double edge sword, securing and prosecuting any bad act against any computer system was a good thing, but also they missed and destroyed a entire generation of hacker. Currently very few that are actives and currently are too afraid or to unwilling to help the national infrastructure.

So, it is not strange to see that USA is (not more) on the top on security, instead Romania,Ukrania, Russia, Germany (Deutchland) and in some minor degreed, China is topping the best places in security (and, at the same time, in hackers).

So, when you talk to secure the national (USA) infrastructure system, then you are taking or to contract local but barely qualified workforce or to contract a (for example) a Russian consultant company to protect against Russia ->

Last edited by Magallanes on 22 Apr 2009 - 13:25
#5.2 VIVIsectVI on 22 Apr 2009 - 20:36
Magallanes said,
The DMCA was a double edge sword, securing and prosecuting any bad act against any computer system was a good thing, but also they missed and destroyed a entire generation of hacker. Currently very few that are actives and currently are too afraid or to unwilling to help the national infrastructure.

So, it is not strange to see that USA is (not more) on the top on security, instead Romania,Ukrania, Russia, Germany (Deutchland) and in some minor degreed, China is topping the best places in security (and, at the same time, in hackers).

So, when you talk to secure the national (USA) infrastructure system, then you are taking or to contract local but barely qualified workforce or to contract a (for example) a Russian consultant company to protect against Russia ->


What the hell are you babbling about?
(1 reply) #6 barteh on 22 Apr 2009 - 13:35
I wouldnt believe everything you read.
If they had stole precious data, do you really think they would tell the public?

im going with no.
#6.1 Fox-HTV on 22 Apr 2009 - 16:11
I agree, it's probably (but not definitely) a lie, whether wholly or partially.
#7 1759 on 22 Apr 2009 - 14:29
It might not be sensitive data, but it's still a security breech. Perhaps they should give their friends over at the NSA, on how to secure their computers better.
(1 reply) #8 brink668 on 22 Apr 2009 - 14:59
Lockeed Martin just because you think it may be not that big of a deal it still really is.
#8.1 SirEvan on 23 Apr 2009 - 04:07
i work for lockheed...we were actually laughing about this today at work,...as messed up as that might sound, they were denying it had anything to do with our company and now look. haha.
#9 grik on 22 Apr 2009 - 16:54
Yeah right, like they would say, they stole us big important stuff.

PANIC

So now they see how vunerable they are. Dont blame the british guy for telling you that.
(1 reply) #10 splur on 22 Apr 2009 - 17:13
"We've investigated the problem and we've found among the informational obtained by the hackers were infrastructure, security access codes, missile storage/silo/defense locations and designs, nuclear power station lock-down codes, and citizen personal information. Not to spread panic, this is a minor issue."

You think even if it was sensitive data they'd tell you? lol. Oh ya, and I did make that quote for dramatic effect if it wasn't obvious enough for you.
#10.1 darkpuma on 22 Apr 2009 - 20:39
splur said,
"We've investigated the problem and we've found among the informational obtained by the hackers were infrastructure, security access codes, missile storage/silo/defense locations and designs, nuclear power station lock-down codes, and citizen personal information. Not to spread panic, this is a minor issue."

You think even if it was sensitive data they'd tell you? lol. Oh ya, and I did make that quote for dramatic effect if it wasn't obvious enough for you.
I was hoping someone would say this to save me the typing. I'm sure it was sensitive data, and probably not just 'how to maintain an aircraft'. I work on maintenance manuals for regional jets, and they are not anywhere near 'terabytes'. Sure, F-35 is complex, but not THAT complex...
#11 drumkill on 22 Apr 2009 - 18:03
This topic is now officially Classified.
#12 stephen_0002 on 22 Apr 2009 - 18:15
I'm an aircraft mechanic for the f-18's up in cold lake ..... the f-18 are pushing close to 30 years old... an the online manuals for maintenence are well into the terabytes .... In fact it has nothing to do with how sophisticated the aircraft might be... if it was made in the past 50 years, and has an online manual for maintenance for the military. You can bet it is Very big. Hence the reason to put the manual online, so we as aircraft techs can free up some room, because there used to Huge libraries of these books as well
#13 Digix on 22 Apr 2009 - 18:41
I doubt much will come out of this. F-35 is an export market plane anyway so no doubt there'll be the occasional plane go astray once they're up and running. That'll pose more of a risk then stealing plans/blueprints/manuals etc. Russians have proven time and time again they can reverse engineer aircraft then re-produce them quite quickly so I would see that as more of a threat then anything you can steal over the internet.
#14 theslam08 on 22 Apr 2009 - 19:15
A bit odd few days prior they were asking for 'hackers' to join them to help fight this. Then something happens. Maybe this was a setup? To show they need the help, and hopefully they get it.
(1 reply) #15 badblood on 22 Apr 2009 - 19:39
How the hell did they manage to get "several TB"?! It takes me a couple of hours, my connection going at full chat, to get a DVD size file. How long did they manage to stay hacking to get the data before they were spotted?!
#15.1 Unplugged on 23 Apr 2009 - 10:50
I would imagine the pentagon and whoever was doing the hacking was using something with more bandwidth than a SOHO ADSL/Home ADSL line.

The links to and from these places onto the internet is normally dedicated fiber allowing speeds in the GBPS. Someone in a major pop would have no problem pulling off say a 7TB file at 100meg in less than a day.

If they had a gigabit link they could pull that down in a magnitude of hours. Why it wasn't noticed however is the key. But then if the building regually transfers huge qtys of data ( understandable given it's nature ) then its not unusual that it got overlooked.
(3 replies) #16 Solid Knight on 23 Apr 2009 - 01:00
Lol at people who have no idea how detailed you have to be in maintenance instructions.
#16.1 stephen_0002 on 23 Apr 2009 - 14:08
thats what i was trying to say, several TB's of aircraft maintenance is quite normal. I just hope they find out who hacked the system. Makes you wonder why wasn't is picked up by someone. I mean, it's the pentagon!! it's supposed to be one of the most secure places. **Flash backs of Transformers** LOL Anyway, The whole russian reverse engeneering thing, is a very interesting thing to look at. What if they did take the info, and made there own jet equal to the F-35. it might be just like the F-86 Sabre vs. MiG-15 (very equal planes, both had some memerable battles)
#16.2 Solid Knight on 24 Apr 2009 - 00:17
You'd need more than maintenance instructions to reverse engineer an aircraft.
#16.3 stephen_0002 on 24 Apr 2009 - 01:50
Very true, it was just a thought

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