Remember that major announcement that was planned for Windows 7 a while back? Well, it's finally here, revealed on Paul Thurrott's Windows SuperSite. So, what is it? It's a feature of Windows 7 called 'Windows XP Mode'. So, what exactly is this new mode? As you can probably tell from the name, it's a method to provide better compatibility in Windows 7, and to pull it off with as little trouble as possible. It's also dubbed XPM, or formerly Virtual XP. According to Thurrott, "XPM is built on the next generation Microsoft Virtual PC 7 product line, which requires processor-based virtualization support (Intel and AMD) to be present and enabled on the underlying PC, much like Hyper-V, Microsoft's server-side virtualization platform. However, XPM is not Hyper-V for the client. It is instead a host-based virtualization solution like Virtual PC; the hardware assistance requirement suggests this will be the logical conclusion of this product line from a technological standpoint. That is, we fully expect future client versions of Windows to include a Hyper-V-based hypervisor."
XP Mode will bring a Virtual PC-based environment, as well as a fully licensed version of Windows XP SP3, free for all owners of Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise and Ultimate editions. This is good from a commercial point of view. Earlier, Microsoft could happily say that Windows 7 was just as compatible with software as Windows Vista, but now they can add 100% compatibility with Windows XP, too. So, for you IE6 users, you're in luck. Do not expect this to run like a proper Virtual PC; that being, a separate operating system running within a window. XP Mode will integrate itself with the Windows 7 desktop, and so the older software will run just like a normal Windows 7 application. Essentially, this is two operating systems running under an updated desktop.
Thurrott expects to have screenshots up of it running shortly, and also look forward to seeing an in-depth guide of it on Within Windows very soon. Neowin will publish more information as it arrives. Thoughts?
I got it up as soon as I saw it. It's a matter of being approved for the front page.
The only news site i go to is neowin and i just saw this. I don't care if its a few hours old its new to me right now.
Yeah, Neowin shouldn't have put this article here then.... I... guess?
Some of us aren't scouring the internet for tech news constantly, so it's new to us
Yes; VMWare includes it; however, VMWare *charges* for it (in fact, they charge more than a Windows license (especially one under Software Assurance) costs on a per-seat basis). Remember how much Workstation 6.5 costs (either as an upgrade or standalone). In this case, if you are going to upgrade anyway (and you should from XP, just due to security issues alone), there's actually some *value-added* you can take away from the upgrade.
And as far as patches go for XPM, they can be pushed down to users with WSUS (enterprise users) or Windows/Microsoft Update (non-enterprise users); in short, the same way they get updates today.
Lastly, what features are lost due to the implementation of XPM? This is NOT meant to replace native Vista/Windows 7 application implementation (any more than Unity is). This is meant (instead) to *tide over* a company/enterprise waiting for a native implementation of their vertical-specialty application for Windows 7 as they migrate from XP *without* having to install another application (even Microsoft's own Virtual PC, let alone VMWare).
Are you being obtuse, sir (in fact, willfully and deliberately obtuse)?
But where's my nice alternate interface surprise?
At a guess it's targeted at business users, so like any previous versions of virtual PC, no hardware accelerated 3d.
But here's hoping I'm wrong
Though I'd want it for older things than punkbuster. punkbuster just needs to fix their £#^#£% #%^£# code.
Why would you need to? There are very very few games that work with XP and not Vista.
This would be for the really old games that may of never been updated for Vista. I'm sure they thought of everything on this. Keep in mind that XVM is based on Virtual-PC but isn't it. Afterall VPC doesn't support integrating to the desktop.
I believe that Mac OSX used emulation to support OS 9 apps. This uses virtualization and will be optimized for CPUs that support virtualization.
You can still run Classic Mode on PowerPC Macs running Mac OS X 10.4 or earlier. Only Intel Macs and PowerPC Macs running Leopard cannot run Classic.
This as has been said is virtualization and doesn't need any change to the older code of the app etc. Just have the right CPU support.
I thought the same!
But it doesn't handle it anymore, and it doesn't need to
IMO, it's a smart way to tackle the compatibility problem during a transition period.
So I think this announcement sounds more exciting than it is. Though it is the nail in the coffin for XP and a lovely feature release win for Windows 7.
Please don't try to explain something to me that you have no idea about. Classic mode had nothing at all to do with fat binaries. Fat binaries allowed the same program to run on different processor architectures (back in the early 90's during the transition from the 68K to PPC architecture). Universal binaries are the more recent equivalent for the PPC to x86 transition. Neither has anything to do with the Classic Environment on OS X. That was a full version of Mac OS 9 running inside of OS X with similar seamless desktop integration that allowed non-OS X software to run on the OS X desktop. I'm well aware that Classic isn't true virtualization, but it isn't fully emulated either (it's somewhere in between, with some parts of the hardware emulated, but many CPU calls virtualized).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_Environment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_binary
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_binary
I guess the main point is that Windows doesn't have to provide legacy support so they can strip things down or even start from scratch which sounds possible with their talk of a cloud OS.
I guess the main point is that Windows doesn't have to provide legacy support so they can strip things down or even start from scratch which sounds possible with their talk of a cloud OS.
Yea. They needed to find an exit avenue so that they could get rid of alot of excess baggage. This is probably the best way to do it. I currently run a XP Virtual Machine inside of VMWare so this will likely save me the trouble of having to set it up again with Win7.
I was pretty much sold before, but now it's guaranteed! Microsoft, this was the smartest move you could have made!
Well done!
be great if its integrated in 7100
I wouldn't trust them not to be full of nasties.
If you want nero6 that pretty much means your after standard burning featues only, not video encode bloat.
So use imgburn instead, its free, and the most reliable disk burning app out there.
nero6's media info will be WAAAY out of date now.
If you want nero6 that pretty much means your after standard burning featues only, not video encode bloat.
So use imgburn instead, its free, and the most reliable disk burning app out there.
nero6's media info will be WAAAY out of date now.
updatepack.nl has real versions of Nero (Lite and Micro).
I use the micro version. You need a legit serial though.
If you want nero6 that pretty much means your after standard burning featues only, not video encode bloat.
So use imgburn instead, its free, and the most reliable disk burning app out there.
nero6's media info will be WAAAY out of date now.
VM uses a virtualized optical drive to link with the real one. Nero won't work, I've tried it.
If you want nero6 that pretty much means your after standard burning featues only, not video encode bloat.
So use imgburn instead, its free, and the most reliable disk burning app out there.
nero6's media info will be WAAAY out of date now.
VM uses a virtualized optical drive to link with the real one. Nero won't work, I've tried it.
Awww... no burning inside of XVM? Oh well. I'm sure there will be some breaks. I know it was hard to emulate burning capability inside of a VM. VirtualBox did it but it leaves a ghost drive that doesn't go anywhere. They do a direct pass-through for it.
If you want nero6 that pretty much means your after standard burning featues only, not video encode bloat.
So use imgburn instead, its free, and the most reliable disk burning app out there.
nero6's media info will be WAAAY out of date now.
Yes thats why everyone continues to use Nero Lite, because it's so totally full of spyware and viruses....
be great if its integrated in 7100
Try Ashampoo. It works perfectly on Win7 and is just like Nero used to be before it got bloated.
But I know this is important for business.
Last edited by rm20010 on 25 Apr 2009 - 21:02
Last edited by rm20010 on 25 Apr 2009 - 21:02
I heard a few people wish to run Windows as the main OS. And not Linux. :p
Please try and stay on topic. The point of XVM is to have a licensed setup of XP inside of a VM that is integrated to the desktop. This isn't the same as running VMware or Xen. VMware is slow to start in some cases. Xen is a PITA to get XP install within (although it can be done). Then you still have to have an XP license anyways.
Last edited by rm20010 on 25 Apr 2009 - 21:02
I hope they make it as seamless integration like vmware fusion or parallels desktop does on mac and remove every code needed for "compatibility" with older windows versions. the OS would be much faster, i think
Anyway, this is a wonderful but, how about performance vs commercial products? (vmware/parallels or even virtualbox that is free)
because this is different, its virtualized applications... you can run the app outside of the "host" os environment so its just like a windows 7 app but runs like windows xp and looks like win xp... it doesnt run inside a windowed host like vmware or vpc... you can launch an app from the win7 desktop in xp mode it pops up like a normal app.. no "os load" time... with integration directly into the OS like its a normal app
No. From everything I'm reading, this is nothing more than VirtualPC upgraded with an implementation of VMware's Unity mode. Notice that this includes a license for Windows XP because it is running XP in the background.
Now I really can't wait!
Now I really can't wait!
It's available in the Professional version too...
Boot from the VM? I don't see a reference to that although it would be nice none the less.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-ca/academic/default.aspx
Or is it only for the XP SP3 that comes with the more expenive versions of Windows 7?
Reminds me of Sonic 3 & Knuckles.
I don't see much of its use in the business world which have and hold their XP licenses.
I personally think it's a great addition to an already great OS.
I don't see much of its use in the business world which have and hold their XP licenses.
Because Windows 7 has lots of new features? What kind of strange question is this?
Windows 7 has the combined feature set of Windows Vista and Windows 7, what you get after a combined eight years of OS development time, haha.
The fear of businesses is compatibility on what they have. Now presented with this thing that they can actually run their old software through a virtual PC using seven on older platforms and will be using XP (virtually) so that their software/applications work is like saying they are complicating things which are made to be simple.
Plus in a test in our present condition. We have a software (can't name it here, due to restrictions) which eats 180-320MB RAM in XP, is doubled in Vista and Seven 390-740MB. We often run 2 to three instances of this. Instance in a sense that one instance is independent on the other. So in general if you have 3 instance of it, in XP you'll be using 540-960MB which is still good, in Vista eats 2GB actual test and makes your computer to a super crawl then locks up and down. In Seven it BSODs with no apparent reason at times in first instance. Though to be fair, I only tried it on the 7048 which I downloaded.
In this scenario considering Seven won't run it and running it virtually is somewhat... forget it.
Why not? Most businesses will have PCs that can run 7 since it requires less than Vista. This means they can upgrade, and get all the new security stability features management networking search and other features. And they don't need to worry if some of their old apps only work on XP because they'll still work.
I don't know about others but I've been running Vista since launch and am very used to it now, XP is REALLY hard to go back to. And going back from 7 beta to Vista is hard too once you are used to 7. When I go back to Vista I keep dragging my windows to the top and edge of the screen an nothing happens like in 7.
But reality is, many people don't like learning new things, I get that. And XP Pro still has support until 2014 I think for security patching so I guess there's not really any pressure to move if people really don't see the value.
I don't know about others but I've been running Vista since launch and am very used to it now, XP is REALLY hard to go back to. And going back from 7 beta to Vista is hard too once you are used to 7. When I go back to Vista I keep dragging my windows to the top and edge of the screen an nothing happens like in 7.
But reality is, many people don't like learning new things, I get that. And XP Pro still has support until 2014 I think for security patching so I guess there's not really any pressure to move if people really don't see the value.
Most maybe. My work though still uses older P4's with a gig of ram. They are Dell Optiplex GX620's just so you know. Nothing that can run Windows 7 comfortably with our applications though. On the upside I installed and ran Windows 7 on an old SX260 with a P4 2.66Ghz and 1 Gig of ram and I thought it did run pretty good but work is gonna want an upgrade before they deploy Windows 7.
But yeah, this "XP within 7" option makes a compelling case at hardware replacement time, especially since a new Windows 7 license will be MUCH cheaper when bundled with a new computer.
Still, a brillant move by Microsoft to help the said business bump their machines to Windows 7 from XP
what's with IE6 here? i thought xp sp3 has ie7 installed?
Windows XP SP3 still has IE6 installed on a default setup. Most machines that still come with XP preinstalled have already been updated to IE7 these days but if you go out and find a XP SP3 OEM cd you will get IE6 first. If you check out the screenshots you will see the old IE6 icon there on the desktop.
May 5th?
Running a VirtualBox guest XP and sucking up quite a lot of ram/cpu.
Or if it's something very new in 7 that makes it tightly integrated with the OS and the performance draining you'd usually see when running a Virtual OS in Vbox/VMware etc, unnoticeable.
Seriously, the industry needs to catch up and ditch Office/97/2000/XP/IE6. All this does is further allow companies to reside on unsupported/no longer updated/unpatched software, that is more of a security risk than anything
like Neobond said the industry needs to move on.
like Neobond said the industry needs to move on.
Actually I don't see that happening. This type of functionality is typically sandboxed. I'm sure MS has thought it out but it is no more exploitable than their current Virtual PC software or Innotek VirtualBox or VMware Workstation/Server.
all other screens: http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/xp_mode_pre_shots.asp
i guess they will at last support 64bit OS now in VPC aka WVPC ?
Why is this requiring processor-based virtualization technology if it's basically "just" a Virtual PC solution and not a Hyper-V client?
Last edited by Jugalator on 25 Apr 2009 - 10:58
Why is this requiring processor-based virtualization technology if it's basically "just" a Virtual PC solution and not a Hyper-V client?
it's because of how it runs, its not a VM environment, its a virtualized application layer (you can use a VM environment if you want to though) and to do this inside windows you need the virtualization features of your CPU... it's kind of like windows side by side (SxS) but its like Windows inside Windows WiW
Why is this requiring processor-based virtualization technology if it's basically "just" a Virtual PC solution and not a Hyper-V client?
it's because of how it runs, its not a VM environment, its a virtualized application layer (you can use a VM environment if you want to though) and to do this inside windows you need the virtualization features of your CPU... it's kind of like windows side by side (SxS) but its like Windows inside Windows WiW
This shouldn't be much of an issue though. Most computers within the past couple of years either has an AMD or Intel processor that supports the virtualization extensions. My laptop from almost 3 years ago did. My current laptop does.
how to setup this thing ??
Will the virtual XP PC only emulate a crappy video card or give virtual XP under Win7 full access to the real card/GPU and its features, to be fully recognized as such by XP 3D apps? That's my problem with the current Virtual PC 2007 under Win7: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details...;displaylang=en
You clearly don't understand the technology as this is the second incorrect comment you've made. It is Virtual PC. It is a second app. It is regular virtualisation. This is nothing new or even close to new.
It requires VX technology in the CPU because it is hardware assisted, as is most modern virtualisation - not exclusively HyperV.
For similar products (to back my nothing new claim) look at Parallels Workstation or VMWare Fusion for Mac. Both have this exact functionality (windows apps available on the mac dock running within a window that has an XP border and no other hint of windows) and are just virtual machines with an integration mode; nothing new.
Updated list and links 1/2 way down.
In short, many dual/quad core CPUs and ALL of the new i7 Core CPUs, which is likely to mean ANY machine you buy with Windows 7 will support this out of the box, since that is the CPU that Intel is pushing into all segments this summer/fall (when Windows 7 will reach store shelves on OEM machines).
http://www.grc.com/securable.htm
I hope M$ aren't pushing too much...
No, wait a minute! You pressed the wrong key! Keep practicing!
What is great about it is that this will hopefully create the opportunity to get rid of as much legacy stuff as possible in Windows and make it even more leaner. I haven't been as excited about a new Windows release since Windows2000, I feel it's a game changer
I think the purpose of running Office 2003, was just to show that it was stable and worked.
The only real purpose I can see for this is very dated legacy applications, setting up secure VMs or using data hardware (if possible, again VPC, not sure).
Right now, I either have to dual boot or install it in XP in virtual box with USB2 support enabled.
The picture series does show mass storage USB support... which might be a yes.
Last edited by jasondefaoite on 26 Apr 2009 - 01:05
Probably not. This just seems to be a packaged Virtual PC w/ Windows XP pre-installed. I don't think that a "guest" OS can use hardware that not compatible with the "host" OS. This is probably only useful for software compatibility (although I could be wrong).
However, will all XP drivers work ?
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