Microsoft ad: It costs $30,000 to fill a 120GB iPod

It seems the ad wars are starting to heat back up, folks. It's been relatively quiet lately, in context of advertisements Microsoft and Apple have been aiming at each other, but it seems that the Redmond software giant has just unleashed another video into the wild. The ad, which we'll call 'Financial Planner', features a man named Wes Moss, a 'certified financial planner', talking about the differences between iTunes and the Zune Pass.

Moss states that $30,000 is what it takes to fill a iPod with 120GB of storage, whereas the Zune Pass costs you a mere $15 because it's a subscription based service. Ars Technica has done the math on this, and has some pretty interesting statistics:

-- Since Zune Pass allows you to only keep 10 songs a month, it would take 250 years to get up to 30,000 songs for keeps, and that'd end up being $45,000.

-- It would take 166 years and 8 months to end up paying $30,000 going via the Zune Pass route.

As it's pointed out, if you don't mind paying for songs that you don't yet own (and there's nothing wrong with that), then the Zune Pass route is the key, otherwise any other à la carte based model (like iTunes) would be the more obvious choice. It's not exactly a $15 vs. $30,000 debate as the ad would lead you to believe; both paths have their pros and cons, and it's essentially down to the preference of the user. We've included the ad below for your enjoyment, so feel free to hit the comments after checking it out:

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I still prefer to buy CD and rip them to my mp3 player. This is still sadly the best way to do things.

LaP said,
I still prefer to buy CD and rip them to my mp3 player. This is still sadly the best way to do things.

How do you figure? You pay $10-$20 and these days only a couple tracks are even good. I much rather download the tracks I like and only pay for those.

My Roommate has the Zune pass. Unlimited DLs per month but you have to sync your Zune every now and then to renew the tracks. And you get to keep 10 tracks per month without having to sync it at all. So thats like one free album per month.

Yea, some people put videos on there iPod...but I never did. Who wants to watch a video on that small of a screen?

Something not mentioned is that Zune Pass also applies to 3 Zunes and 3 computers. I'm sharing a Zune pass with my brother and sister (who each have Zunes too), so it works out to $5/month for each of us.

The other nice thing about Zune, is that if your Zune is damaged/wiped, and you lose the music off your hard drive, you don't lose all your music. Reinstall Zune software and hit 1 button and its all back!

The assumption here is that people pay to fill their devices with songs, which at $30,000 or $45,000 is clearly untrue!

Since when am I forced to buy music from the iTMS to fill my iPod? I don't buy music online, I buy the CD and import to iTunes. I can listen anywhere, not bound by PlaysForSure or DRM.

I'd also like to know how many people fill a 120GB iPod with music only, and bought everything from the iTMS. I guess not that many.

For those few who actually need this much, a subscription based service may actually be the best option. Apart from that I just see this a MS picking on every little thing they can to get some sales.

Someone at Microsoft seemed to forget that the iPod classic can be filled with videos and photos as well. So it's not like music is the only medium you can use it with.

This, i would think is thin ice for microsoft to tred. OK it may cost £££ to fill an ipod but at least i don't have to worry about Apple deciding to format/drm every year.

If Microsoft brings the Zune software to Windows Mobile I might just subscribe to this service. Seems like a deal to me! (especially since I drive 30 hours minimum a month back and forth to work).

I'd be shocked if it's not all integrated as a single service by the time they ship WM7.

In fact I'd be surprised if in the not too distant future they announce their own handset also but thats a different topic.

DawnUnder2002 said,
I just hope this ad is the start of the marketing for the new Zune availability (and international!)

I'm pretty sure full ads for the new Zune start next month so fingers crossed. Let's just hope they are better than this one!

Certainly their worst ad by far - going after the iPod via the Zune in its current state is one of the worst things they can do. I guess the best thing the Zune can do is music which is why they forget lots of users fill up iPod's with Music, VIDEO, Photos, Apps, etc etc etc - but then again Microsoft took 3 years or so before they got that point to begin with! I've also been buying Blu-Ray titles and DVD titles that include the digital copy of the film in iTunes format - thats already 1.5GB of space used up! I hope they add a subscription plan to iTunes - but right now Apple haven't simply because it hasn't appealed enough to users so far no matter what Microsoft will tell you is the better deal.

Remember with Zune Pass:

You cannot burn any of the songs from Zune Pass onto disc, to listen in a Car etc like I do with other music formats

Once you discontinue the monthly Zune Pass, you cannot listen to any of the downloaded music again. So quit for a month or so due to finacial issues and you lose your music.

Byron_Hinson said,
Remember with Zune Pass:

You cannot burn any of the songs from Zune Pass onto disc, to listen in a Car etc like I do with other music formats

Once you discontinue the monthly Zune Pass, you cannot listen to any of the downloaded music again. So quit for a month or so due to finacial issues and you lose your music.

nice point made! And where exactly Zune Pass is available? Never heard of it

Byron_Hinson said,
Remember with Zune Pass:

You cannot burn any of the songs from Zune Pass onto disc, to listen in a Car etc like I do with other music formats

Once you discontinue the monthly Zune Pass, you cannot listen to any of the downloaded music again. So quit for a month or so due to finacial issues and you lose your music.

Not having $15 is pretty bad financical state...
Regardless of that, you're lying. The music doesn't disappear if you don't pay those $15. It will reappear when you pay those $15 somewhere in the future.
The2 said,
And where exactly Zune Pass is available? Never heard of it

Did you hear that the Earth is round?

RealFduch, you do realize that saying it doesn't disappear when you stop paying because it reappears when you start paying again is idiotic, right?

RealFduch said,

Not having $15 is pretty bad financical state...
Regardless of that, you're lying. The music doesn't disappear if you don't pay those $15. It will reappear when you pay those $15 somewhere in the future.

Did you hear that the Earth is round?


So Mr contrdiction you call me a liar for stating that if you cancel your subscription the tracks disappear...yet you then tell us they reappear if you sign up at a later date. So what you mean is I was right, they disappear when you cancel! Well done for the loopy clarification.

Byron_Hinson said,
Once you discontinue the monthly Zune Pass, you cannot listen to any of the downloaded music again. So quit for a month or so due to finacial issues and you lose your music.

Yes, this is basically the definition of a subscription service.

Of course, if you can't pay for a $15 sub, I doubt you can pay for iTunes music either.

Kirkburn said,
Yes, this is basically the definition of a subscription service.

Of course, if you can't pay for a $15 sub, I doubt you can pay for iTunes music either.


Really never knew that. No wonder the Napster one failed!

Personally I buy a couple of albums a month, only ever buy artists I like and listen to a lot and paying $15 doesn't work out for me as some months I go without buying an as from my taste in music there isn't always something out there.

With the way MS have been about shutting down services etc - this is another reason I wouldn't put any trust in either an MS run or an Apple run subscription service - if it goes down the pan in 10 years time, I'll have none of the music that I subscribed to, compared to buying that music over those 10 years.

To me that makes little sense but that is just my opinion and I don't knock anyone using the service if it suits them, for me I like to copy the music I buy online to CD's to play in the car and around friends and this is something Zune Pass doesn't allow me to do in the way I want to control my music.

It's nice to see some factul ads undoing some of the false perceptions Apple inflicted on some people. Keep 'em coming.

C_Guy said,
It's nice to see some factul ads undoing some of the false perceptions Apple inflicted on some people. Keep 'em coming.

Yes because we all know you buy an ipod to only ever put music on it!

Byron_Hinson said,
Yes because we all know you buy an ipod to only ever put music on it!

And Zune users only buy a Zune to put music on it too?

Kirkburn, no one has suggested such. But Microsoft's argument is based on a flawed premise though. It's an argument that is not contraverted by saying, "It can also be said of..." because Apple (and no one else) IS saying it.

excalpius said,
That is an EXCELLENT point, btw. Though the ad is doing an apples to apples comparison, which is only fair.

Perfect point - my iPod holds loads of video, from video podcasts to films via the digital copies you get on blu-rays etc.

Kirkburn said,
And I'm sure people who get a Zune don't just use it for music, too.

i have videos on my zune.. zune pass is not allowed in canada (yet.) but I have a hard time filling my 8 GB zune with just music so...

hehe im luvin this back and forth thing they got going. thumbs up for thisss, nice to see windows with some gritt.

Zune Pass allows you to only keep 10 songs a month

This seems a bit misleading. Could lead someone to think you create like a play list which automatically dissapeares after a month. truth is all songs are kept for as much as possible it's only 10 DRM free do-whatever-you-want songs per month you get.

The YouTube comments for this video are scary. I know that the vast majority of people who post comments on YT are the sort of braindead scum-of-the-earth that make you worry for the future of mankind. And now I see that a large number of the comments are from Apple users. And I'm doing my best not to make a connection.

Joshie said,
The YouTube comments for this video are scary. I know that the vast majority of people who post comments on YT are the sort of braindead scum-of-the-earth that make you worry for the future of mankind. And now I see that a large number of the comments are from Apple users. And I'm doing my best not to make a connection.

Yeah, as far as internet comments go, I think YouTube has to be amongst the lowest of the lows.

Sam Symons said,
Yeah, as far as internet comments go, I think YouTube has to be amongst the lowest of the lows.


Digg is pretty bad. Liberal people who claim they are "forward thinking" and nothing else. And everyone is an atheist. Being agnostic or christian basically gets you flamed. Not that being liberal or an athiest makes one a bad person, but the way the digg community acts does.

Sam Symons said,
Yeah, as far as internet comments go, I think YouTube has to be amongst the lowest of the lows.

your totally right!

but then again anything that's SUPER POPULAR usually attracts a bunch of people who flame each other and start something. it's just the way it is, sadly

but i think alot of it usually boils down to 'age', as the younger the users are the more flaming that usually happens (and the general way i see it is 'most people' dont seem to get out of that really immature stuff til around 25+ years old, by that point you usually filter out the bulk of the really immature people) .... i usually try avoiding that sorta stuff myself and if someone try's to provoke me or anything of that sort i will usually just state my case with stuff to backup what i say and if they keep going off on me ill just usually ignore them, especially if they have pretty much NOTHING to backup what there saying with reason etc etc.

because at least on neowin , sometimes people get into debates but it usually don't come back to name calling or swearing at the other person etc etc... at least here 'most people' usually try to argue there side whatever that may be and Neowin seems to have a rather large community from what i can tell

ThaCrip said,
because at least on neowin , sometimes people get into debates but it usually don't come back to name calling

Well.... there are moderators... and they issued warnings to me for writing posts with screenshots that proof that some people just plain lie (the posts were deleted).

Nobody else has mentioned it, but in reality most iPods are filled for free lol was waiting for someone to mention this!

crashguy said,
Nobody else has mentioned it, but in reality most iPods are filled for free lol was waiting for someone to mention this!

;) I'll quote Matt Buchanan from Gizmodo on this: "the zune ad would make more sense if people actually cared about whether or not the way obtain music is perfectly legal. they don't."

Sam Symons said,
;) I'll quote Matt Buchanan from Gizmodo on this: "the zune ad would make more sense if people actually cared about whether or not the way obtain music is perfectly legal. they don't."


Not sure what to think about that. It is true, and I am not sure if it is all that bad.

yeah i dont see the fuzz because even though the US market is the biggest one is probably the only one where people actually buy music, the rest of the world specially latin america and Asia havent even heard about having to pay for the mp's3 on your ipod.

CrimsonRedMk said,
Bring Zune software to Mac OS X. That'll be something.

Yeah it would be, it would be deleted damn quick! I hope they do with the Zune HD though assuming it is actually good - the Zune right now is a pretty awful piece of hardware which could have been far better than it was right from the beginning if MS had listened to users about how they wanted the Wi-Fi to work but they didn't. They didn't update firmware quick enough, they told users features were coming that took over a year to appear etc.

To me that is one of many reasons why Zune failed and why I would never ever get another one.

Byron_Hinson said,
Yeah it would be, it would be deleted damn quick! I hope they do with the Zune HD though assuming it is actually good - the Zune right now is a pretty awful piece of hardware which could have been far better than it was right from the beginning if MS had listened to users about how they wanted the Wi-Fi to work but they didn't. They didn't update firmware quick enough, they told users features were coming that took over a year to appear etc.

To me that is one of many reasons why Zune failed and why I would never ever get another one.


(Accidentaly hit RETURN!)

Well, the name Zune has always sounded like an RPG to me.

Byron_Hinson said,
Yeah it would be, it would be deleted damn quick! I hope they do with the Zune HD though assuming it is actually good - the Zune right now is a pretty awful piece of hardware which could have been far better than it was right from the beginning if MS had listened to users about how they wanted the Wi-Fi to work but they didn't. They didn't update firmware quick enough, they told users features were coming that took over a year to appear etc.

To me that is one of many reasons why Zune failed and why I would never ever get another one.


Um, what? What exactly if wrong with the hardware at the moment, and how does that have any relevance to the software?

This would probably work perfectly for people like my sister considering flavour of the month pop is pretty much all she listens to with only maybe 25% surviving longer than that. Of course it would mean cutting off that current friendship with limewire.....

And also are those 10 songs a month completely stripped of DRM as people seem to have assumed or not.

Alot if it is available in DRM-free MP3. Microsoft has stated before that it's trying to get most, if not all of it, available in MP3 in the next year or so...

Man so glad to finally read an article about products from apple and microsoft that focus on the point without comments from crazy windows or apple supporters....of course now i'm the stupid one cause i didnt contribute to the discussion.=)

Ars technica's analysis is incorrect. Zune is not saying that the free tracks they give you a month make Zune cheaper, they say its the actual subscription service - the fact you can download as many tracks as you want for a flat monthly fee - that is more economical. Specifically, I can download as many songs as it takes to fill a Zune. On iPod the exact same transaction would cost me $30,000.00.

Now, going forward, paying $15.00/mo and downloading no more new songs (although the subscription model allows users to download more tracks than will fit on your device) it would take me 2,000 months (or about 160 years) before my $15/mo totalled $30,000.00. I do not plan on living that long. So, despite the technicalites, I bought the songs for my lifetime.

If you think about it, if you are having a party and want to get new music for it, it is cheaper to use the Zune software for one month, paying $15.00 then going and buying CDs for the party.

The fact is on the business model Zune wins. On hardware, its pretty clear people prefer the iPod. Point on this - The Zune model is the exact same business model as NetFlix. Zune is just more generous with the content they feed to you.

eth3l said,
If you think about it, if you are having a party and want to get new music for it, it is cheaper to use the Zune software for one month, paying $15.00 then going and buying CDs for the party.

Your bad grammar threw me there for a moment. I was trying to think why someone would take a out a Zune subscription, and then go out and buy CDs as well. Then it hit me - I assume you actually meant to say THAN. It never fails to amaze me how many people seem to use 'then' and 'than' as though they're the same word. Of course they're not, and using the wrong one always makes complete garbage of what they were actually meaning to say.

The Zune Pass is so much better than iTunes, especially being able to keep 10 songs DRM free now. I've used both extensively too, so I'm not saying anything blind here.

I'd also like to point out that the 250/166 year argument put forward here is kind of moot, and not an argument at all, considering the average lifespan is like 75. so the real math to fill a Zune and compare should be more like 75*12*15, which is going to be less than $30K ($13,500, now that I did the math), and it's as good as having all the songs for keeps because you'd have paid for the service your whole life based on that math.

-Spenser

It's actually a non-event. In April of 2007, Apple gleefully announced the sale of their 100 millionth iPod. At that same time, it was widely believed that Apple had sold a total of 2.5 billion songs.

The math is pretty simple. That averages out to 25 songs sold per iPod sold, or the equivalent of two albums per device.

Now think of it this way: you buy a $300 CD player back in the late-80's...and then you purchase only TWO ALBUMS for it. And everyone else does the exact same thing. Would the recording industry consider this to be a resounding success? No. The compact disc platform would have died a swift, horrible death. Now, perhaps sales have increased a bit with the introduction of DRM-free iTunes, but I still seldom meet anyone who pays money for compressed music.

And this ad conveniently omits the fact that it costs almost exactly as much to fill a 120G Zune player if you purchase instead of subscribe.

Slugbait said,
It's actually a non-event. In April of 2007, Apple gleefully announced the sale of their 100 millionth iPod. At that same time, it was widely believed that Apple had sold a total of 2.5 billion songs.

The math is pretty simple. That averages out to 25 songs sold per iPod sold, or the equivalent of two albums per device.

Now think of it this way: you buy a $300 CD player back in the late-80's...and then you purchase only TWO ALBUMS for it. And everyone else does the exact same thing. Would the recording industry consider this to be a resounding success? No. The compact disc platform would have died a swift, horrible death. Now, perhaps sales have increased a bit with the introduction of DRM-free iTunes, but I still seldom meet anyone who pays money for compressed music.

And this ad conveniently omits the fact that it costs almost exactly as much to fill a 120G Zune player if you purchase instead of subscribe.

Yeah they'll always omit the fact that it costs the same to fill a Zune via the method that most people use - purchasing music. But then again this is an advert, and we all know adverts like to twist the truth.

Yes in the US ads Microsoft and Apple are like children, in the UK when one of the ads was aired it was later banned and Apple claimed no reasonable person believes what the adverts claim as a defence to misleading consumers. Many of the latest Microsoft ads do not make it here either - I'm guessing because the advertising standards do not allow them.

mmck said,
Many of the latest Microsoft ads do not make it here either - I'm guessing because the advertising standards do not allow them.

Examples?

Kirkburn said,
Examples?

All of the laptop hunter ads. Due to various falses in the advertising they probably wouldn't get shown here. The best ads for software on tv at the moment are the iPhone ones as they actually show their uses rather than bitch and moan ads like these. Same reason mac vs pc ads are not on tv here.

With iTunes you can import music from anywhere...

But iTunes will also first attempt to convert your music to an Apple format, then prompt for an update which is actually just installing Bonjour and other stuff, maybe Safari, but then yes it is on your iPod. But don't rely on it as a backup of your music - as taking music back off your iPod can be even more fun.

mmck, what? iTunes keeps MP3s as MP3s, but will convert WMAs to AAC just because it's not Windows Media. Bonjour is installed as an optional update as is Safari. yamiPod takes music off an iPod IIRC.

Unto Darkness said,
Wait, you can't import music which you have bought somewhere else into iTunes and sync it with the iPod?

Can on the Mac version just find - so I assume you can via Windows iTunes too.

CrimsonRedMk said,
mmck, what? iTunes keeps MP3s as MP3s, but will convert WMAs to AAC just because it's not Windows Media. Bonjour is installed as an optional update as is Safari. yamiPod takes music off an iPod IIRC.

It might retain mp3s now - when I had my 3rd gen iPod it did not, it started to change all my mp3s with default settings - so er noo thanks.

And yes although optional - they are not "updates" as they often miss labelled to trick installation (or again used to). Also automatically selecting it to install like it has been known is also deliberately installing it.

If I want iTunes and install iTunes why would I want anything else (infact I didn't even want iTunes to be honest I wanted to use my own player). On the other hand Apple are the first to cry wolf when other people force software on users.

Apple products are nice, I just have issues with their morals.

mmck said,
With iTunes you can import music from anywhere...

But iTunes will also first attempt to convert your music to an Apple format
...


It does?

I've used it since v4, it's never done that for me.

The_Decryptor said,

It does?

I've used it since v4, it's never done that for me.


Yea doesn't ask me to do that either. The option to convert them is via right clicking not a mention on screen

Yeah, it actually does make sense considering my aunt tells me she just gets on iTunes and ends up buying this and this and this... literally going crazy buying music that would go well over $15 a month. I mean, on one end, the music is yours. On the other, it's just a for now thing. What if the service goes out? What happens to all the money you payed?

Well, at the same time, if you purchased through iTunes and somehow that service goes out, I could only hope that you backed up all your music because, otherwise, it's gone too. I'm sure that most casual people would certainly not bother backing stuff up either... at least, until it's too late and you're being asked to pull data off a possibly dead drive. :|

Now, let's see if I can get this big comment in before the "[company] sucks!" mob arrive...

So, Zune Pass allows you to download unlimited songs with DRM for 3PC's. And 10 no DRM songs per month. And those unlimited songs will not play if you end your subscription. So for $10 yo get 10 songs, and for $5 you get unlimited songs with drm.

I think it's so much cheaper than with the iTunes.

Michael Jacob said,
So, Zune Pass allows you to download unlimited songs with DRM for 3PC's. And 10 no DRM songs per month. And those unlimited songs will not play if you end your subscription. So for $10 yo get 10 songs, and for $5 you get unlimited songs with drm.

I think it's so much cheaper than with the iTunes.


Well said. Basically $10 a month for 10 non drm songs you get to keep, and $5 a month for unlimited drm songs.

It depends on what school of thought you belong to. A lot of people will see this ad and jump for it, but a lot of them won't think it through.

We've all seen our fair share of DRM-laiden music services go down in flames, leaving their customers in an awkward situation. While Zune Pass may do very well, there is no guarantee. What people won't realize is that while you're only really licensed to listen to music you buy from iTunes, with Zune Pass this is a pay-per-month license. You really have no ownership over the music.

Also, you're restricted to the Zune as your MP3 player, and only the Zune (if I recall correctly). People who buy from iTunes can put their music on an iPod, a Zune, or anything they really want. They can move it between computers, and never have to worry that one day their music will disappear.

I'm on a fairly consistent "one CD a month" routine. Sometimes it's from a music store, sometimes it's from iTunes - regardless, I will always have the music. Even if I may have to convert the music to a different format, burn it to a CD, or whatever the case may be, the music is always there for me. So for $10 a month, my music collection is a reasonable size and I have no worries.

People who go through a lot of music a month... sure. A subscription model may be right for you. It is Microsoft we're talking about, so this service will probably be stable for years to come.

simon360 said,
Also, you're restricted to the Zune as your MP3 player, and only the Zune (if I recall correctly). People who buy from iTunes can put their music on an iPod, a Zune, or anything they really want.


Not entirely correct. I have a Zune Pass and can put any subscription track on my Creative ZEN. In fact, Zune supports any MP3 player that is PlaysForSure capable. The only caveat is that you have to sync the music using WMP.

Also, non-DRM (MP3) tracks you buy from Zune can also be put on any MP3 player, so your argument that music purchased from iTunes can be put on any player is nullified. Zune just adds the dimension of subscription tracks, meaning you don't HAVE to buy the song (unless it's purchase-only).

To be honest, I wish you could do this on Mac OS X. That's pretty much the only reason I don't use the ZunePass. Buying songs isn't for me because I end up listening to a song X amount of times and it gets old.

I can dream, can't I?

@AstareGod, ahh, upon further investigation I can see some of that. The 10 DRM-free tracks a month isn't a bad deal at all. I can see a bit more of a purpose to this ad now.

I still prefer my way, though. It works for me, because I don't need unlimited access to music. There are months I wouldn't have the $15 to spare, and my music would disappear. And there are times I just want to buy a hard CD.

But Zune Pass is something I might have to start recommending... unfortunately, basically everyone I know has an iPod, and not a PlayForSure.

CrimsonRedMk said,
To be honest, I wish you could do this on Mac OS X. That's pretty much the only reason I don't use the ZunePass. Buying songs isn't for me because I end up listening to a song X amount of times and it gets old.

I can dream, can't I?

seriously? , because i think a great song is a great song... it will NEVER get old (assuming your not young (i.e. teens/early 20's) and dont go through phases of music. lol)

CrimsonRedMk said,
To be honest, I wish you could do this on Mac OS X. That's pretty much the only reason I don't use the ZunePass. Buying songs isn't for me because I end up listening to a song X amount of times and it gets old.

I can dream, can't I?

I hope they will bring it to iTunes as an option - would stop this kind of advert making users think it is some kind of bargin. Personally I wouldn't ever use it as I like to own my music. Heck I still tend to buy CD's!

simon360 said,
Also, you're restricted to the Zune as your MP3 player, and only the Zune (if I recall correctly). People who buy from iTunes can put their music on an iPod, a Zune, or anything they really want. They can move it between computers, and never have to worry that one day their music will disappear.

Another plus for the Zune is its capability to move all its content to your PC should anything happen to the audio/video on the PC.

Its actually true. Most of us don't take this into consideration because we 'download' music.

Webeagle12 - Try substantiating your statement with a proper argument. It seems like your post is bs.

+1 , because that's pretty much the bottom line.

any of us 'knowledgeable' people know exactly what you mean by "download"

FIX YOUR BLOODY ARTICLE

With Zunepass you can fill three players with songs to the brim. The 10 songs are just yours to keep so you can burn them to CD or do whatever!

Some people.

it's not BS but the add is misleading. Honestly take pirates out of the picture. How many people that do buy their own cds are NOT going to rip them to their hard drive and put them on either player? I have a iTouch I've purchased Music from iTunes but I've also ripped my own personal cds that I spent money on to put songs on to it as well. Far from $30k to fill up anything period even without having to pirate the music or movies/videos

webeagle12 said,
Raise you hand if you think this is BS

** raises hand


you mean your hand, right? you hand makes no sense. And it's not BS, it's just advertising.

devHead said,

you mean your hand, right? you hand makes no sense. And it's not BS, it's just advertising.


I'm usually not one to gramar Nazi, but it's never good to start a sentence with "and".

;-)

RAID 0 said,


I'm usually not one to gramar Nazi, but it's never good to start a sentence with "and".

;-)


Grammar

devHead said,

you mean your hand, right? you hand makes no sense. And it's not BS, it's just advertising.

Also, you should learn to capitalize the first letter of every sentence. :P

/grammar nazi