It seems the ad wars are starting to heat back up, folks. It's been relatively quiet lately, in context of advertisements Microsoft and Apple have been aiming at each other, but it seems that the Redmond software giant has just unleashed another video into the wild. The ad, which we'll call 'Financial Planner', features a man named Wes Moss, a 'certified financial planner', talking about the differences between iTunes and the Zune Pass.Moss states that $30,000 is what it takes to fill a iPod with 120GB of storage, whereas the Zune Pass costs you a mere $15 because it's a subscription based service. Ars Technica has done the math on this, and has some pretty interesting statistics:
-- Since Zune Pass allows you to only keep 10 songs a month, it would take 250 years to get up to 30,000 songs for keeps, and that'd end up being $45,000.
-- It would take 166 years and 8 months to end up paying $30,000 going via the Zune Pass route.
As it's pointed out, if you don't mind paying for songs that you don't yet own (and there's nothing wrong with that), then the Zune Pass route is the key, otherwise any other à la carte based model (like iTunes) would be the more obvious choice. It's not exactly a $15 vs. $30,000 debate as the ad would lead you to believe; both paths have their pros and cons, and it's essentially down to the preference of the user. We've included the ad below for your enjoyment, so feel free to hit the comments after checking it out:
** raises hand
** raises hand
How is it BS?
With Zunepass you can fill three players with songs to the brim. The 10 songs are just yours to keep so you can burn them to CD or do whatever!
Some people.
Last edited by a1ien on 12 May 2009 - 03:44
** raises hand
you mean your hand, right? you hand makes no sense. And it's not BS, it's just advertising.
** raises hand
you mean your hand, right? you hand makes no sense. And it's not BS, it's just advertising.
I'm usually not one to gramar Nazi, but it's never good to start a sentence with "and".
;-)
** raises hand
you mean your hand, right? you hand makes no sense. And it's not BS, it's just advertising.
I'm usually not one to gramar Nazi, but it's never good to start a sentence with "and".
;-)
Grammar
** raises hand
you mean your hand, right? you hand makes no sense. And it's not BS, it's just advertising.
Also, you should learn to capitalize the first letter of every sentence.
/grammar nazi
Webeagle12 - Try substantiating your statement with a proper argument. It seems like your post is bs.
any of us 'knowledgeable' people know exactly what you mean by "download"
We've all seen our fair share of DRM-laiden music services go down in flames, leaving their customers in an awkward situation. While Zune Pass may do very well, there is no guarantee. What people won't realize is that while you're only really licensed to listen to music you buy from iTunes, with Zune Pass this is a pay-per-month license. You really have no ownership over the music.
Also, you're restricted to the Zune as your MP3 player, and only the Zune (if I recall correctly). People who buy from iTunes can put their music on an iPod, a Zune, or anything they really want. They can move it between computers, and never have to worry that one day their music will disappear.
I'm on a fairly consistent "one CD a month" routine. Sometimes it's from a music store, sometimes it's from iTunes - regardless, I will always have the music. Even if I may have to convert the music to a different format, burn it to a CD, or whatever the case may be, the music is always there for me. So for $10 a month, my music collection is a reasonable size and I have no worries.
People who go through a lot of music a month... sure. A subscription model may be right for you. It is Microsoft we're talking about, so this service will probably be stable for years to come.
Not entirely correct. I have a Zune Pass and can put any subscription track on my Creative ZEN. In fact, Zune supports any MP3 player that is PlaysForSure capable. The only caveat is that you have to sync the music using WMP.
Also, non-DRM (MP3) tracks you buy from Zune can also be put on any MP3 player, so your argument that music purchased from iTunes can be put on any player is nullified. Zune just adds the dimension of subscription tracks, meaning you don't HAVE to buy the song (unless it's purchase-only).
I can dream, can't I?
I still prefer my way, though. It works for me, because I don't need unlimited access to music. There are months I wouldn't have the $15 to spare, and my music would disappear. And there are times I just want to buy a hard CD.
But Zune Pass is something I might have to start recommending... unfortunately, basically everyone I know has an iPod, and not a PlayForSure.
I can dream, can't I?
seriously? , because i think a great song is a great song... it will NEVER get old
I can dream, can't I?
I hope they will bring it to iTunes as an option - would stop this kind of advert making users think it is some kind of bargin. Personally I wouldn't ever use it as I like to own my music. Heck I still tend to buy CD's!
Another plus for the Zune is its capability to move all its content to your PC should anything happen to the audio/video on the PC.
I think it's so much cheaper than with the iTunes.
I think it's so much cheaper than with the iTunes.
Well said. Basically $10 a month for 10 non drm songs you get to keep, and $5 a month for unlimited drm songs.
Well, at the same time, if you purchased through iTunes and somehow that service goes out, I could only hope that you backed up all your music because, otherwise, it's gone too. I'm sure that most casual people would certainly not bother backing stuff up either... at least, until it's too late and you're being asked to pull data off a possibly dead drive. :|
Now, let's see if I can get this big comment in before the "[company] sucks!" mob arrive...
Hah, yes, I'll get around to that soon.
But iTunes will also first attempt to convert your music to an Apple format, then prompt for an update which is actually just installing Bonjour and other stuff, maybe Safari, but then yes it is on your iPod. But don't rely on it as a backup of your music - as taking music back off your iPod can be even more fun.
Can on the Mac version just find - so I assume you can via Windows iTunes too.
It might retain mp3s now - when I had my 3rd gen iPod it did not, it started to change all my mp3s with default settings - so er noo thanks.
And yes although optional - they are not "updates" as they often miss labelled to trick installation (or again used to). Also automatically selecting it to install like it has been known is also deliberately installing it.
If I want iTunes and install iTunes why would I want anything else (infact I didn't even want iTunes to be honest I wanted to use my own player). On the other hand Apple are the first to cry wolf when other people force software on users.
Apple products are nice, I just have issues with their morals.
But iTunes will also first attempt to convert your music to an Apple format
...
It does?
I've used it since v4, it's never done that for me.
But iTunes will also first attempt to convert your music to an Apple format
...
It does?
I've used it since v4, it's never done that for me.
Yea doesn't ask me to do that either. The option to convert them is via right clicking not a mention on screen
The math is pretty simple. That averages out to 25 songs sold per iPod sold, or the equivalent of two albums per device.
Now think of it this way: you buy a $300 CD player back in the late-80's...and then you purchase only TWO ALBUMS for it. And everyone else does the exact same thing. Would the recording industry consider this to be a resounding success? No. The compact disc platform would have died a swift, horrible death. Now, perhaps sales have increased a bit with the introduction of DRM-free iTunes, but I still seldom meet anyone who pays money for compressed music.
And this ad conveniently omits the fact that it costs almost exactly as much to fill a 120G Zune player if you purchase instead of subscribe.
The math is pretty simple. That averages out to 25 songs sold per iPod sold, or the equivalent of two albums per device.
Now think of it this way: you buy a $300 CD player back in the late-80's...and then you purchase only TWO ALBUMS for it. And everyone else does the exact same thing. Would the recording industry consider this to be a resounding success? No. The compact disc platform would have died a swift, horrible death. Now, perhaps sales have increased a bit with the introduction of DRM-free iTunes, but I still seldom meet anyone who pays money for compressed music.
And this ad conveniently omits the fact that it costs almost exactly as much to fill a 120G Zune player if you purchase instead of subscribe.
Yeah they'll always omit the fact that it costs the same to fill a Zune via the method that most people use - purchasing music. But then again this is an advert, and we all know adverts like to twist the truth.
Examples?
All of the laptop hunter ads. Due to various falses in the advertising they probably wouldn't get shown here. The best ads for software on tv at the moment are the iPhone ones as they actually show their uses rather than bitch and moan ads like these. Same reason mac vs pc ads are not on tv here.
I'd also like to point out that the 250/166 year argument put forward here is kind of moot, and not an argument at all, considering the average lifespan is like 75. so the real math to fill a Zune and compare should be more like 75*12*15, which is going to be less than $30K ($13,500, now that I did the math), and it's as good as having all the songs for keeps because you'd have paid for the service your whole life based on that math.
-Spenser
Now, going forward, paying $15.00/mo and downloading no more new songs (although the subscription model allows users to download more tracks than will fit on your device) it would take me 2,000 months (or about 160 years) before my $15/mo totalled $30,000.00. I do not plan on living that long. So, despite the technicalites, I bought the songs for my lifetime.
If you think about it, if you are having a party and want to get new music for it, it is cheaper to use the Zune software for one month, paying $15.00 then going and buying CDs for the party.
The fact is on the business model Zune wins. On hardware, its pretty clear people prefer the iPod. Point on this - The Zune model is the exact same business model as NetFlix. Zune is just more generous with the content they feed to you.
Your bad grammar threw me there for a moment. I was trying to think why someone would take a out a Zune subscription, and then go out and buy CDs as well. Then it hit me - I assume you actually meant to say THAN. It never fails to amaze me how many people seem to use 'then' and 'than' as though they're the same word. Of course they're not, and using the wrong one always makes complete garbage of what they were actually meaning to say.
And also are those 10 songs a month completely stripped of DRM as people seem to have assumed or not.
Yeah it would be, it would be deleted damn quick! I hope they do with the Zune HD though assuming it is actually good - the Zune right now is a pretty awful piece of hardware which could have been far better than it was right from the beginning if MS had listened to users about how they wanted the Wi-Fi to work but they didn't. They didn't update firmware quick enough, they told users features were coming that took over a year to appear etc.
To me that is one of many reasons why Zune failed and why I would never ever get another one.
To me that is one of many reasons why Zune failed and why I would never ever get another one.
(Accidentaly hit RETURN!)
Well, the name Zune has always sounded like an RPG to me.
To me that is one of many reasons why Zune failed and why I would never ever get another one.
Um, what? What exactly if wrong with the hardware at the moment, and how does that have any relevance to the software?
Not sure what to think about that. It is true, and I am not sure if it is all that bad.
Yeah, as far as internet comments go, I think YouTube has to be amongst the lowest of the lows.
Digg is pretty bad. Liberal people who claim they are "forward thinking" and nothing else. And everyone is an atheist. Being agnostic or christian basically gets you flamed. Not that being liberal or an athiest makes one a bad person, but the way the digg community acts does.
your totally right!
but then again anything that's SUPER POPULAR usually attracts a bunch of people who flame each other and start something. it's just the way it is, sadly
but i think alot of it usually boils down to 'age', as the younger the users are the more flaming that usually happens (and the general way i see it is 'most people' dont seem to get out of that really immature stuff til around 25+ years old, by that point you usually filter out the bulk of the really immature people) .... i usually try avoiding that sorta stuff myself and if someone try's to provoke me or anything of that sort i will usually just state my case with stuff to backup what i say and if they keep going off on me ill just usually ignore them, especially if they have pretty much NOTHING to backup what there saying with reason etc etc.
because at least on neowin , sometimes people get into debates but it usually don't come back to name calling or swearing at the other person etc etc... at least here 'most people' usually try to argue there side whatever that may be and Neowin seems to have a rather large community from what i can tell
Last edited by ThaCrip on 12 May 2009 - 06:46
Well.... there are moderators... and they issued warnings to me for writing posts with screenshots that proof that some people just plain lie (the posts were deleted).
This seems a bit misleading. Could lead someone to think you create like a play list which automatically dissapeares after a month. truth is all songs are kept for as much as possible it's only 10 DRM free do-whatever-you-want songs per month you get.
Perfect point - my iPod holds loads of video, from video podcasts to films via the digital copies you get on blu-rays etc.
i have videos on my zune.. zune pass is not allowed in canada (yet.) but I have a hard time filling my 8 GB zune with just music so...
the way i see it is.... RIAA etc organizations get most of the money when you buy CD's and everyone knows there shady. so why support them?
supporting the Artist usually means going to there concerts etc etc... they make very little from CD sales from what i heard.
I've seen quite a few arguments for piracy that were direct replies to comments that you have made that were nearly exactly like this.
Let me try to figure out how your mind works. First you make your own opinion, then you go online and spray it in the face of morons until someone more intellectual than yourself makes a counterargument, and then you just ignore the counterargument and move on keeping your same ****ing opinion and continuing to say the same thing over and over again.
I believe I speak for myself when I ask you to shut the **** up or think of something else to say. To even use the words "right" or "wrong" when you have no knowledge of what a premise or logical argument is is insulting. You don't offer evidence, you don't prove points, you don't offer examples, you simply say your opinion is morally right and anyone who disagrees somehow crosses the boundaries that make humans good or evil.
supporting the Artist usually means going to there concerts etc etc... they make very little from CD sales from what i heard.
Correct, major record labels only off-hand about 2-5¢ for each CD album to the artist why they are bs.
Yes because we all know you buy an ipod to only ever put music on it!
And Zune users only buy a Zune to put music on it too?
Remember with Zune Pass:
You cannot burn any of the songs from Zune Pass onto disc, to listen in a Car etc like I do with other music formats
Once you discontinue the monthly Zune Pass, you cannot listen to any of the downloaded music again. So quit for a month or so due to finacial issues and you lose your music.
Last edited by Byron_Hinson on 12 May 2009 - 06:31
You cannot burn any of the songs from Zune Pass onto disc, to listen in a Car etc like I do with other music formats
Once you discontinue the monthly Zune Pass, you cannot listen to any of the downloaded music again. So quit for a month or so due to finacial issues and you lose your music.
nice point made! And where exactly Zune Pass is available? Never heard of it
You cannot burn any of the songs from Zune Pass onto disc, to listen in a Car etc like I do with other music formats
Once you discontinue the monthly Zune Pass, you cannot listen to any of the downloaded music again. So quit for a month or so due to finacial issues and you lose your music.
Not having $15 is pretty bad financical state...
Regardless of that, you're lying. The music doesn't disappear if you don't pay those $15. It will reappear when you pay those $15 somewhere in the future.
Did you hear that the Earth is round?
You cannot burn any of the songs from Zune Pass onto disc, to listen in a Car etc like I do with other music formats
Once you discontinue the monthly Zune Pass, you cannot listen to any of the downloaded music again. So quit for a month or so due to finacial issues and you lose your music.
Not having $15 is pretty bad financical state...
Regardless of that, you're lying. The music doesn't disappear if you don't pay those $15. It will reappear when you pay those $15 somewhere in the future.
Did you hear that the Earth is round?
So Mr contrdiction you call me a liar for stating that if you cancel your subscription the tracks disappear...yet you then tell us they reappear if you sign up at a later date. So what you mean is I was right, they disappear when you cancel! Well done for the loopy clarification.
Yes, this is basically the definition of a subscription service.
Of course, if you can't pay for a $15 sub, I doubt you can pay for iTunes music either.
Of course, if you can't pay for a $15 sub, I doubt you can pay for iTunes music either.
Really never knew that. No wonder the Napster one failed!
Personally I buy a couple of albums a month, only ever buy artists I like and listen to a lot and paying $15 doesn't work out for me as some months I go without buying an as from my taste in music there isn't always something out there.
With the way MS have been about shutting down services etc - this is another reason I wouldn't put any trust in either an MS run or an Apple run subscription service - if it goes down the pan in 10 years time, I'll have none of the music that I subscribed to, compared to buying that music over those 10 years.
To me that makes little sense but that is just my opinion and I don't knock anyone using the service if it suits them, for me I like to copy the music I buy online to CD's to play in the car and around friends and this is something Zune Pass doesn't allow me to do in the way I want to control my music.
I'm pretty sure full ads for the new Zune start next month so fingers crossed. Let's just hope they are better than this one!
In fact I'd be surprised if in the not too distant future they announce their own handset also but thats a different topic.
To me, Microsoft shouldn't put out ads like this when their own subscription kinda sucks. Essentially their service works out at $1.50 per song, and the argument that you can listen to as many as you want doesn't wash with me because you can stream music from plenty of other applications totally free. Oh and Zune still doesn't even have an international release yet (although the devices are awesome)
Wrong. Give me $15 and I'll fill your 120Gb or zillion-Gb Zune in an instant. Can you do this with iTunes?
RealFduch, In an instant? I'd like to see you do it in less than 5 hours... Hell, I'll give you a week... with music I ACTUALLY want to listen to and I don't already own.
If you already own the music, then there's no point comparing iTunes or Zune - you don't need either.
The question is: can RealFduch fill an iPod for me in an instant.
I'd also like to know how many people fill a 120GB iPod with music only, and bought everything from the iTMS. I guess not that many.
For those few who actually need this much, a subscription based service may actually be the best option. Apart from that I just see this a MS picking on every little thing they can to get some sales.
The other nice thing about Zune, is that if your Zune is damaged/wiped, and you lose the music off your hard drive, you don't lose all your music. Reinstall Zune software and hit 1 button and its all back!
Yea, some people put videos on there iPod...but I never did. Who wants to watch a video on that small of a screen?
How do you figure? You pay $10-$20 and these days only a couple tracks are even good. I much rather download the tracks I like and only pay for those.
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