Microsoft is planning on shipping a version of Windows 7 to Europe that will not include Internet Explorer. This is according to a confidential memo that was sent to PC makers and obtained by CNET. It is likely that Microsoft is reacting to the European Union concerns that by bundling Internet Explorer with Windows 7 it is being anti-competitive in the browser market.Microsoft's lawyers responded by saying "Our decision to only offer IE separately from Windows 7 in Europe cannot, of course, preclude the possibility of alternative approaches emerging through Commission processes. Other alternatives have been raised in the Commission proceedings, including possible inclusion in Windows 7 of alternative browsers or a 'ballot screen' that would prompt users to choose from a specific set of Web browsers."
A ballot screen may look very similar to the one that is prompted when you install IE 8 where you are given the choice for your default search provider. If Microsoft were to take this route it would be a huge win for Mozilla, Opera, Google and Apple too. Imagine if Apple was able to get its Safari browser onto this ballot list and followed it up with several of their popular "PC vs. Mac" advertisements. Apple could gain a large portion of the browser market due to its large cash reserves and clever advertisements.
Microsoft has said that this announcement will only impact Windows 7 and that it will not be removing Internet Explorer from any of its previous Windows products, including the Virtual XP package for Windows 7. In addition, Microsoft is developing plans to make Internet Explorer easily available to those in the European market who choose to use it.
Internet Explorer once dominated but in the recent years has faced stiff competition from Google, Mozilla and Apple and has faced declining market share each year, for at least the last five years.
they wont, they will have to buy a cd
Windows Update?
Why not d/l with Windows update ? why not have an api or on the setup giving a choice ?
Are you guys that young that cant remember simple tools we used to retrieve software without a browser ?
as stated on the news
simple solution , and yes i do not use IE in ages , no i dont hate it simply i prefer Firefox , easier for me and less clustered
The average user wants everything set up before they turn on the machine.
Simple. And as we all know so far, the N versions of Windows just don't sell at all.
They could still have the installation file on the media and just not have it installed by default.
It's hard because MS makes it hard. MS could easily add software repository support to Windows so that you don't need a browser to install software. You would also be protected from viruses since software in the repositories can be trusted (if you don't add some shady ones). There can be an official MS repository for the clueless lemmings, and a catalog of trusted third party repositories for those using third party software.
OEMs can still install IE if they want to.
I would tend to agree with and support that.
FTP in explorer anyone ?
That's what i'm thinking. Sneak it in AFTER it ships, but it's not directly on the CD.
+1
my 2 cent.
you forgot zilch
That is exactly what happened with the N Editions; apparently the EU didn't learn from that.
Remember, a bureaucracy is even slower and more ponderous than an elephant, and with a far smaller brain; therefore, it takes far greater pain to get its attention. (That is far from EU-specific; it's just that larger bureaucracies, like those of the EU, the US, and the PRC take longer to say "Ouch!" than those of, for example, Australia.)
And by the way, I am *not* Australian, but an American (and actually used to work in ours).
Why not d/l with Windows update ? why not have an api or on the setup giving a choice ?
Are you guys that young that cant remember simple tools we used to retrieve software without a browser ?
as stated on the news
simple solution , and yes i do not use IE in ages , no i dont hate it simply i prefer Firefox , easier for me and less clustered
Even though I agree with you opposition, I don't get which browsers will be selected to push on this ballot screen...
simple solution , and yes i do not use IE in ages , no i dont hate it simply i prefer Firefox , easier for me and less clustered
how would you know what IE is like if you haven't used it in ages?
IE8 is actually a very good browser, i actually like it.
I hope MS's decision to not ship ie in 7 ****es alot of people off, and leaves them "high and dry".
EU is like the whiney little brother, always crying and complaining that life isn't fair. it's not, deal with it or don't buy it.
I guess you'd have to install IE from the "Windows Features" and then use IE to download Firefox or Chrome....LAME LOL
And I thought nothing had been confirmed yet in terms of what Europe is getting/will get, just that Microsoft is planning for an eventuality of the EU's forthcoming decision. Which will have to include an easy method for users to get their browser of choice, if they do decide that IE should not be bundled. Perhaps the EU has learnt from Windows N, so maybe they won't allow Microsoft to release a version in Europe with IE.
Let's separate the points and make them clearer:
1) First: one thing is the EU bullying, but besides that, MS has taken a decidedly bad decision for themselves. How are the average mamma and joe gonna browse the internet or get a browser after this when they get Windows 7? Oh gosh... problems ahead!
2) Now, the right way to think this matter is: "what would the 'most adequate' or 'less damaging' solution be?" This is a matter where probably no solution would be a perfect %100 convenient one that would please everyone. So, again, the point is MAKING THE USER CONSCIOUS OF CHOICE and GIVING HIM THE POSSIBILITY OF CHOICE. After choosing, he can disable IE if he likes.
-Couldn't MS then make a simple disclaimer telling the user that he is not enclosed to IE and free to choose among other alternatives if he decides he is not happy with IE?-
That's the point of it. Letting the user know that he's not enclosed to IE and he can choose any other thing if he pleases. This would also save MS from to getting in the muddy waters of making themselves a decision for what alteratives the user can get. It's simply up to the user to get into that matter if he minds to.
No one bought the N versions of XP or Vista in Europe.
Why would this be any different?
Why would this be any different?
Because there are no non-E versions available in Europe.
the versions sold in europe in the boxes are the E one even if the box doesnt say anything?
Anyway, most people dont buy windows, they buy the PCs it comes with. And those have IE, WMP, and everything. So this is no big deal
People choose to buy it?! No, it comes preloaded on their PCs! Choice would mean people could still choose XP. Where our choice to preload XP instead of Vista?
Choice means being able to choose other brands. Not old software from the same developer.
(e.g. choice doesn't mean being able to demand Toyota makes models from the 1990s)
I could tell you, but then I'd be on suspension.
Last edited by GreyWolfSC on 12 Jun 2009 - 13:34
lol
Microsoft "forces" computer companies to pay for Windows? By "force" do you mean if they want to sell it on their machines? Just like Intel "forces" them to pay for CPUs instead of getting them for free?
Or do you mean that Microsoft somehow "forces" companies to sell Windows computers? Last I checked, Microsoft wasn't forcing Apple to sell Windows on their PCs. Nobody is forced to do anything. OEMs sell Windows computers because that's what their customers want.
Well I have always chosen Windows and it has never come pre-loaded. You specify the OS that you want. Anyway what is wrong with Windows? It works, the world is still here, what do you want.....
Apparently is true but for earliest version.
Do you use FTP for that? If not, you've missed the point here.
When they have the monopoly position in the marketplace, and have been convicted of abusing that monopoly to push their own non-standard standards.
No, because Apple doesn't "own" a particular market. They compete with Microsoft in the same market.
In the European Union there are very strict rules for companies that have a large market share. They are subject to more restrictions than the rest
So MS is being punished for being successful? Once MS loses most of their market share then they'll be allowed to bundle IE back? so basically this is just a move to make MS lose market share? if company A makes a product that sells way better than company B's, should company A's product be downgraded it because they're doing good...
In the European Union there are very strict rules for companies that have a large market share. They are subject to more restrictions than the rest
Apple is not in competing with MS in the same market until I can go and buy a boxed copy of OSX and install it on hardware of *my* choosing without jumping through hoops or modifying anything.
Yup, that is how it works in the EU it seems. Quite retarted.
Key rule to success in the EU is: Don't get too successful; try to stay in the background and whine as much as possible on those obviosly more successful than yourself.
Just because you don't think the law is fair, or are to ignorant to try to understand it, doesn't change the fact that it is the law, in most countries around the world.
Just because it's law doesn't mean it's right either. It's illegal to do so many things that really shouldn't be.
MS has done nothing wrong. They hold a monopoly because no one else had the balls to attempt the things they did. When MS sees an opportunity it grasps it. The government didn't fine MS because they have a monopoly. The government fined MS because they saw a cash cow.
Wrong. They pressured OEMs to only install Windows on their machines, and also pressured them to NOT install other browsers and media players. Perhaps you should read up on the history of the case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Unio...ompetition_case
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_lit...on#Governmental
It's called socialism. Get used to it, the USA has voted in its first socialist president and he continues to move us in the same direction. Get ready EU here we come!
We are sorry we elected Bush, but his reign is over. He may have taken us closer to socialism by entangling government in so many private businesses, but his reign is over, just let it go.
Dictionary. You. Get together.
They just seem to be trying to protect (failing?) european companies which cant compete. Opera wont gain out of this
Most OEM's will choose to have IE8 installed as its convienient for the customer, and they will probably (because they're OEM's) bundle other browser(s) preinstalled.
I say MS add this to the N versions they sell already that don't have WMP, and sell both. End of story.
Windows 7
Windows 7 N
windows 7 N 404 Special Edition
Windows 7 E (No Browser)
Windows 7 EN (No Browser or Media Player)
this way the sales from the EU version will be lower and will help prove a point.
So after you install windows is that it? you have everything you need or ever need? You don't need a development environment? You don't need and other software? You don't even need office?
Well, for the rest of us, non-liars, we already have to install a pile of software, so this is just one more
Unless the so called "ballot screen" will contain every single browser available out there. Good luck with that.
Unless the so called "ballot screen" will contain every single browser available out there. Good luck with that.
I hope that whoever (Microsoft?) gets to decide which browsers are on the ballot screen that Opera will be too insignificant to be on it.
Job done.
Why?
Unless the so called "ballot screen" will contain every single browser available out there. Good luck with that.
I hope that whoever (Microsoft?) gets to decide which browsers are on the ballot screen that Opera will be too insignificant to be on it.
Job done.
I'd say IE, Firefox, and Chrome.
Because all of this complaining about IE comes from Opera. There's a reason their market share is so low. But instead of doing their job to get more people using it, all they do is complain and say they can't compete. Make better software and more will use it.
opera is such a terrible browser to..dysfunctional on SO many sites, even on facebook ive seen it messing up..and the hacks theyve put into their code to make it work with google..definately not worth shipping with an OS
then theres chrome..rushed outta beta with no features
only IE and firefox are decent browsers, safari 4.0 is garbage its just as useless as chrome is atm
the EU really needs to back off and let MS ship its product as it wishes, if ppl want choices there linux and MacOS
Yes, the reason is that there is no fair market for browsers, because MS does bundling...oh, what does that mean? My head hurts?
yes MS bundles IE, Apple bundles Safari, and most linux distros bundle firefox, the only difference is the MS have a monoploy (which isnt their fault)
When you're using Windows, does anything stop you or prevent from downloading and using Chrome, FF, Safari, Opera, or the any other browser? I didn't think so.
If a company makes a good product, people will use it. If a company doesn't make a good product, people will not use it. The market share of Opera speaks volumes. When they charged for the browser, hardly anyone bought it. When they gave the browser away for FREE, again, hardly anyone bought it.
Companies these days don't want to spend money on R&D. They want to complain to the courts and have everything handed to them. Those types of companies (Opera,Symantec) need to be put of the misery of the computing public.
This was MS's choice, not the EU commission's.
Why give the other browsers the joy of adding in a ballot screen? Let them pay OEMs if they want their browser pre-installed on Windows.
The point of the EUs case is that the vast majority of people who buy a Windows PC are not going care what browser they use, they'll just use what's there and lets them go to ebay, facebook, pr0nking.com, etc. The majority of users will just continue happily using IE because it was there.
The fact that nearly all PCs sold to consumers come with Windows, gives Microsoft an unfair advantage in the Browser space over the other Browsers. Take IE out of the initial build and users then have to make a choice about which browser they want. Even if most of the users won't have a clue about which to pick, they'll end up picking randomly. This will give each browser an equal chance of getting onto that user's PC.
Well, probably it is a mistake to come up with a logical argument against a retarded union...that, probably, is why MS lost in the court!
Ahh, by the way, if there isn't any browser included how are you supposed to download the other browsers and install them in the first place?
Theres FTP, Windows Update or even a custom Browser Chooser app to name but a few.
Theres FTP, Windows Update or even a custom Browser Chooser app to name but a few.
Quite simple. What is this site? One for the tech savvy I imagine. Now I guess you would agree that quite a few people already is voicing their concern in the matter. Now imagine your average man or woman, who only wants a computer to browse the web and do a little word processing.
You could argue there is all these instructions on how to do install all the stuff, but it is still an annoyance. And the worst part of all, these people won't be able to tell a difference between IE and FF and Chrome other than it look slightly different.
The cnet article and the Microsoft on the Issues blog say that it won't be included in any version of Windows 7 in Europe.
But not (at least very explicitly) in this article.
I know many many PC users and not one of them hasn't at least heard of Firefox, which still--even with their market share--is called a niche/geeks browser. If people want to use Firefox, they will, I've even recommended it to many people over the years.
No one who uses the internet hasn't heard of Firefox from somewhere/someone. It's up to them if they want to install it or not.
Brower
Anti-Malware
Anti-Virus
Firewall
Media Player
All the above are, and should be no matter what, integral components of an operating system in this day and age.
(posted using latest pre-release Firefox 3.5)
lol
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10262703...bj=BeyondBinary
Its not exactly complicated to click a shortcut on your desktop to install a browser.
How about those users who are on a connection that uses a browser based sign-on?
There definitely should not be any ballot screen. Do as their told and offer nothing. Put IE & WMP on disc and sell for an additional cost in store something equivalent to like $29US
There definitely should not be any ballot screen. Do as their told and offer nothing. Put IE & WMP on disc and sell for an additional cost in store something equivalent to like $29US
wtf, $29 for free software?
From Cnet:
Opera lashes out over Microsoft's browser removal
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10262913...ag=2547-1_3-0-5
From Cnet:
Opera lashes out over Microsoft's browser removal
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10262913...ag=2547-1_3-0-5
And they're right, how does removing the browsers help the end user? Choice is what everyone is after.
I wish MS would just do a nice fancy screen for selecting which browser you want and then release it to all regions.
It would be funny if there was a ballot screen and Opera's marketshare was too low to be considered. IE, Firefox, Safari, and Chrome perhaps? (Maybe not Safari because it's got that annoying auto-update that downloads other stuff you don't want.)
Thats what I see from Opera
Look, Yes Microsoft has a monopoly and its unfair, but that a freakin monopoly for ya. If Opera really wanted their stake in the browser market they would have made a push years ago when IE 6 had its problems or before. I really see no advantage at all for the end user to use Opera. The interface for IE is much easier. Opera needs to stop expecting Microsoft to kiss their ass and come up with a more innovative browser, something different that would make users want to switch. Im sorry but now it look like their whining.
This is Pathetic now, these companies need to grow up
I can see it now:
"Hey, where's the internet!?!?!?"
i sent them an email telling them to grow a set of balls and to quit expecting microsoft to peddle they're stupid browser for them.
they won't be happy till they're browser is the ONLY one bundled.
i sent them an email telling them to grow a set of balls and to quit expecting microsoft to peddle they're stupid browser for them.
they won't be happy till they're browser is the ONLY one bundled.
Then you should also send an email to Google and Mozilla, since they agree with Opera.
i sent them an email telling them to grow a set of balls and to quit expecting microsoft to peddle they're stupid browser for them.
they won't be happy till they're browser is the ONLY one bundled.
too late. opera gained leading positions in eastern europe - russia, belarus, ukraine, kazakhstan, abkhazia and south ossetia.
http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-RU-dail...080701-20090611
but what is important in there is that it shows there is almost no dependency of browser popularity to preinstallation.
lack of popularity of live in western europe also shows there is no dependency between preinstalled browser and popularity of webservices provided by the same company.
so i see no any reasons of removing preinstalled IE...
Have you read the article? It shows how.
No, it's not. For maybe 2% of Windows users. Now, how about the rest? You going to go to their homes and install a browser for them?
otherwise sell Win7 without IE or WE, make em download from another PC to install.
Opera Chief Technology Officer Hakon Wium Lie also objected to the fact Microsoft is only making the move in Europe.
"It's Europe only," he said. "We're looking for more than that. We want the whole world to have better access to better browsers." (quoted)
this guy is a joke... he want's microsoft to bundle HIS browser for ALL countries.
Its their product and they have every right to supply it with their product...
I have Windows XP and i use FF but i would still preffer to have IE there incase i need it.
Does this mean now MS can make an IE version for Macs then force it on ALL macs??
Its stupid IMO... If people dont like IE its simple... Download something you like then use that... No need making anything illigal or **** like that...
I hope also they don't by default install windows defender.
All Microsoft need to do is have windows defender and IE in another folder on the installation disk or a seperate disk.
Or you can select if you wish to install it via the operating system installation.
"Hi, I'm a PC."
"And I'm a Mac."
"And I'm Sandy! I just want a computer that I can turn on and surf the web."
"She's all yours, Mac."
~.~
Open my computer
put ftp://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/ into address bar.
proceed to download whichever release of firefox you like and done.
most likely though that OEM's will ship a choice option of which to install from major ones.
Well those components will be left in it as it's a crtitcal part of windows explorer. it's the web browser Internet explorer itself which won't be installed.
Open my computer
Or just select Firefox from the ballot screen presented.
It does, it's called FTP.exe but it's obviously a bit more lengthy process than wget. Obviously this is just a fictional account as you can't currently get IE from ftp.microsoft.com as far as I'm aware, but you get the point. This is all easily scriptable into a single "Get IE8!" file on the C drive that can even launch the msi after it's downloaded.
ftp ftp.microsoft.com
Username: Anonymous
Passwprd: email address
lcd c:downloads
get internet-explorer-8.msi
If theres NO IE shipped with Windows 7, and even IF there would be a Ballot-Screen the first time you connect to the Internet, whats with users without any internet-access?
Many Setup-CD's, Documentations,... use HTM/HTML Documents .
So theoretically, if no IE is included, theres nothing which would render these HTML files.
If theres NO IE shipped with Windows 7, and even IF there would be a Ballot-Screen the first time you connect to the Internet, whats with users without any internet-access?
Many Setup-CD's, Documentations,... use HTM/HTML Documents .
So theoretically, if no IE is included, theres nothing which would render these HTML files.
Same way as Adobe reader gets to those same people. People who wish to use such HTML guides will have to ship firefox or whatever with their product.
So that would be more funny to hear. lol
I hated IE until v8 which was somewhat trying to be equally good compared to his alternatives... but this is getting pathetic. MS can include whatever they want.. They give choice to whatever people can install and use, Its not like they forced you to use any components of their OS.
I wonder what happened to that concept.....
In the end it doesn't matter if they sell OEMs a IE-less/WMP-less version of their OS, they will get paid either way and the OEM is the one who will have to provide more options for the customer by installing either different browsers or by giving a disc with different browsers.
The whole issue is a bit of frustrating because MS are being asked to change something which is their perfect right to include. If average Joe doesn't know about other browsers (quite difficult these days really!
Without Windows, those browsers wouldn't even exist (of course there are other Operating Systems).
I think it's only fair, even if you have a so-called monopoly, that you can bundle your own software. I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to include your own products for your own OS.
What's next? Getting rid of Paint, Notepad, Wordpad, zip-compression,...
Without Windows, those browsers wouldn't even exist (of course there are other Operating Systems).
I think it's only fair, even if you have a so-called monopoly, that you can bundle your own software. I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to include your own products for your own OS.
What's next? Getting rid of Paint, Notepad, Wordpad, zip-compression,...
Believed me, the cyber space will be way better without iexplorer, not just because is a MS product but their insecurities, incompatibilities and several other problems.
If car companies were forced to install their competitors' parts and features in a new car, would you back that too?
Yea, tell that to the people who don't know (or care) what FTP or even Firefox is, who just want to turn on their computer and be able to surf the net.
Oh wait....
Im sorry but i now refuse to use Opera and refuse to recormend it.
*Walks off to run the purge script that removes it from 1000plus networked computers/laptops
Dear Opera,
I am quite frankly very disappointed in your company, to the point where I refuse to use, install and recommend Opera.
Why I hear you ask, well it has something to do with your little argument with IE. Quite frankly I have no respect for a company that runs of and complains to the EU like a little 5 year old on a playground who just had their teddy bear stolen.
Instead of trying to gain market share like those people at Mozilla or Apple or Google you instead resort to dirty tactics and get the EU to force them to push your POS browser.
Your company had a chance to gain market share a few years back when IE6 came out and was quite frankly worthless. That's when Firefox came out, they managed it, but it looks like your company screwed it and now whinges about it.
Heck even Google has managed to push their chrome browser out and even Netscape has managed it; they have a better market share than opera.
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=0
There's a little thing called choice and quite frankly I don't want your company forcing another company, in this case Microsoft to limit my choices. That's what you're doing, forcing another company to make changes to their operating system to either have no browser or a ballot screen. Both of these will not work, because you can't have fair choice if there's a ballot screen. As to have full fair choice you would need to include EVERY BROWSER.
And don't even think of asking Microsoft to include your browser in their default install, as I really don't want any more crap added to my installs.
See the thing is with Windows 7 one can simply go into the control panel and remove internet explorer, again if I so wanted to I could download another browser.
Funny thing is whenever I go out and purchase any windows mobile phone, I am forced to use opera mobile browser which is set as my default browser, I have no direct choice there do I, sure IE is installed but I don't get a screen saying what browser do you want.
Just a quick thought:
Remember if Microsoft never invented Windows the chances are your company might have never of existed. Don't bite the hand that feeds you, even if it feeds you a small amount.
The way that MS is taking it is up to MS, not Opera. Opera didn't ask for remove all browser or to force to install Opera by default, Opera asked for a fair treat.
The way that MS is taking it is up to MS, not Opera. Opera didn't ask for remove all browser or to force to install Opera by default, Opera asked for a fair treat.
How is it legit? Now that there is a remedy Opera is admitting they can't even afford to distribute their browser via it.
I'm 100% sure you never intended to use Opera anyway.
MS is a company. It's there to make money and do business. It's not your daughter or anything like that.
The claim is 100% legit i'm sorry to dissapoint you.
The fact that IE by default is installed in Windows and can't be un-installed while competition softwares like Opera and Firefox needs to be downloaded and installed from the competitor web site is not fair at all. It's not a practice that any country should accept specially since MS share of the OS market is close to 90%.
And why do you actually care so much ????
Wow you will have to run windows update now to install IE after a fresh windows installation. OMG like if you did not run windows update already after a fresh installation anyway.
BTW companies will still be able to make images with IE already installed.
For god sake some people here love MS so much it's beyond any understandment.
Opera would rather run the the EU with tears streaming down their face because big bad Microsoft has somehow stopped their product from selling or being adopted.
But wait.
In the exact same marketplace, Mozilla, Google, and even Apple have been successful in gaining browser share on PC's. They all did it without complaining to the EU. They all did it even though Windows ships with Windows Internet Explorer.
So if they can do it, what is Opera's problem? It's certainly not an anti-competitive marketplace, otherwise Mozilla, Google, and Apple wouldn't have a significant portion of the browser market.
That's exactly the point.
We are not missing anything you actually are. As usual when it's about MS you are completely blind.
Opera just ask for fair competition. That's all.
MS doens't have to promote IE. It comes pre-installed with a link to the desktop. Opera and Firefox both start with 2 strikes, 2 outs no runner on the base.
Making IE an optional install after the installation process of the OS even the competition.
I really don't understand why ANYONE is against that. The laws are there for a reason. It's sad that our gourvernements in NA don't care about applying them.
Yes Firefox has made a dent in IE marketshare. But considering how much IE 6 sucked (and please don't ridiculize yourself by saying otherwise) it's less than what it could have been.
For god sake some people here love MS so much it's beyond any understandment.
From the sounds of it, you have so much MS hate it's, "beyond any understatement". What ever that means.
For god sake some people here love MS so much it's beyond any understandment.
From the sounds of it, you have so much MS hate it's, "beyond any understatement". What ever that means.
He actually said "beyond any understandment" not "beyond any understatement". Don't use quotation marks if you're not actually quoting him
what could be easer than going to windows update or the microsoft download site for IE or are they going to send a cd with IE8 on to every household in the European market ?
what could be easer than going to windows update or the microsoft download site for IE or are they going to send a cd with IE8 on to every household in the European market ?
"microsoft download site", how are they going to do that without a browser?
Will IE's dependent (bloat) DLL's etc still be there? If they gonna strip IE from the OS, they better strip all that junk too, not only the iexplore.exe file!
Will IE's dependent (bloat) DLL's etc still be there? If they gonna strip IE from the OS, they better strip all that junk too, not only the iexplore.exe file!
I'm more than happy for all of that to be left in, afterall I do want my programs to work.
Witch sites ???
I know 0 site that doesn't work under Firefox.
I know 0 site that doesn't work under Firefox.
Streaming programs.. like sopcast, TVU and certain flash files don't work on firefox..
here is an example - http://www.cric7.com/ipl/indexiplhai.php
I know 0 site that doesn't work under Firefox.
So? I know of more than 1. Here's an example.
http://www.rqap.gouv.qc.ca/services_en_lig..._dossier_en.asp
You just wont quit ...
They just have to make IE install by running Windows Update. If you want to install IE 7 over Windows XP that's what you have to do anyway.
That's surely a lot of trouble to run windows update to install IE after a fresh install of Windows specially since the first thing you actually do is run windows update anyway after a fresh install.
That will not change anything. People who want to install IE will install IE. People who want to install Firefox will install Firefox. Web developers like me who need to test on everything will install Opera (because let's be honest almost nobody use it except web developers for testing purpose).
The difference is everyone will need to install their favorite browser. IE wont come pre-installed with a link in the desktop.
That's what we call a fair competitive market. And i don't understamd why someone would be against it.
But i highly doubt it is going to help Opera getting more users.
IE 7 and IE 8 are far better than IE 6.
Back in the days of IE 6 it would have made a big difference but now IE stands up as a good browser.
Leave us, EU Commission in peace and take care of your RIAA, MPAA and "democracy". ;P
worms IMHO. If MS was to ship any of the popular browsers with windows then that would imply
that MS would be required to support those browsers.
Its not just a matter of bundling a browser with the OS. Doing so for a competitors product
opens up issues such as copyright, Support, Licensing Terms etc.
Look at it like this. Assume you get a new Ford car and that car has a stereo radio made by someone
else other than ford. Now after buying the car the stereo dies and no longer works. Do you take
your car to the manfacturer of the stereo radio to have it fixed or do you take it to your ford dealer ?
I think you get the point.
Thanx MaxMax
worms IMHO. If MS was to ship any of the popular browsers with windows then that would imply
that MS would be required to support those browsers.
Its not just a matter of bundling a browser with the OS. Doing so for a competitors product
opens up issues such as copyright, Support, Licensing Terms etc.
Look at it like this. Assume you get a new Ford car and that car has a stereo radio made by someone
else other than ford. Now after buying the car the stereo dies and no longer works. Do you take
your car to the manfacturer of the stereo radio to have it fixed or do you take it to your ford dealer ?
I think you get the point.
Thanx MaxMax
Perfect explanation
The Windows XP N initiative failed so hard because its basically selling you a stripdown OS and microsoft its trying to do it again, sell you at the same full price wont bring a difference, because in the end microsoft get money for IE from windows while the competition dont have that advantage.
things that must be done
1- Remove ie completely and not only the icons
2- Reduce the price of a unbundle version of windows
3- Charge or give ie for free for those who want ie later in those version of windows
The Windows XP N initiative failed so hard because its basically selling you a stripdown OS and microsoft its trying to do it again, sell you at the same full price wont bring a difference, because in the end microsoft get money for IE from windows while the competition dont have that advantage.
things that must be done
1- Remove ie completely and not only the icons
2- Reduce the price of a unbundle version of windows
3- Charge or give ie for free for those who want ie later in those version of windows
Why should Microsoft reduce the price of an unbundled version of Windows, if IE is ALREADY FREE, as well as Windows Media Player, etc. The EU is just bitching out of their asses, I bet if MS was a European company they could slip and slide around anything they did. Also, Anybody who gives a flying **** about what software is installed on their computers, go to the Uninstall Programs and remove it. I'm assuming the people that don't know how to uninstall programs are the only ones complaining.
Another thing, competition does not mean helping your competitors. If anybody knew anything about economics and running a business, then they would see this clearly. MS should not be FORCED to advertise for other software companies or companies at all in general. BTW IE Sucked up until IE8, and I used Firefox until then.
Another point: The EU isn't complaining about Apple bundling Safari with OS X. Why be biased? It could lead to this similar argument, but it doesn't.
Why should Apple FORCE users to use Safari? Its bundled with OS X, why not give Mac users a "choice" on what to use. Because its oh so hard to install software. (I use Firefox sometimes on my mac, because Safari crashes on some important website I use).
Before someone says "Microsoft update" - I ask this - does that mean that Microsoft should also now host 3rd party browsers on MS Update, out of the goodness of their heart? And then be responsible for also hosting updated versions?
Whatever; epic fail.
Internet Explorer is the best, always will be.
-Those people who doesn't want IE would know how to find other browsers anyway.
-The people who would be most affected is the ones who is oblivious to the fact there more than 1 browser anyway.
Opera has a point as MS essentially it is taking all the casual customers. But the point is, these people won't even see significant difference between opera and everything else anyway. Is a waste of time for every day people who wants to able to use their laptop soon as they bought it. As if selecting and installing other components isn't stressful enough.
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