Today Microsoft announced the pricing of Windows 7. As previously reported on Neowin, the EU will be getting a version that will not contain IE and because of this Microsoft will be offering no upgrade option in the EU.This harsh line comes as somewhat as a surprise that all EU users that wish to upgrade to Windows 7 must buy a full copy. There is a silver lining to this announcement and it's that the full price of Windows 7 will be at the equaliviant price to the upgrade option. But as history has shown us the prices in the EU are generally more expensive than of those in the States so the savings of picking up an EU copy may not be all that attractive to those who reside in the US.
However, as a result of not having a retail upgrade option, EU users will be unable to perform in-place upgrades of Windows Vista to Windows 7. Microsoft says they expect to have a dedicated Windows 7 E upgrade SKU available before December 31, 2009.
"Microsoft had three choices for the release of Windows 7 E: delay the whole release of Windows 7 to make sure everyone gets the release of Windows 7 at the same time and without any upgrade problems, delay the release of Windows 7 just in Europe and have this market wait till Windows 7 E passes all upgrade tests, or don't offer upgrade versions at all."
Microsoft still has not said if any browser will ship with Windows 7, at one point it was rumored that it may offer a browser selection screen at some point during the install to allow the user to choose a default program of choice. Regardless of what they do the install process just got a little longer in the EU because of their strong anti-trust governing body.
Seconded, awesome EU! Thanks for "representing" our interests.
Yeah, gotta agree with carmatic here, it means everyone gets a cheaper version of Windows 7.
Perhaps the EU should sue MS some more, so we can get Win7 even cheaper than that
But it's pretty good already.
Upgrade installations stink anyway, as they can cause all sorts of troubles.
It also means it would be a fresh install forcing people to back up data and other such, when it may not be in their own best interests!!! F***** EU I hate the fact that we are a member!!!
You should back up your stuff anyway, I see no problem there. Maybe this will even bring some people to start backing up? Anyway, Retail-version of W7 for 50,-? Awesome, thanks EU, I love living here!
Glad I live in the US. I'm sick of what EU and Opera are doing.
So you're also sick of getting the full version for the upgrade price?
Or were you just too dumb to read the entire article? (or at least the bold sentence)
Our prices for the full version: (in Yankee dollars)
Home Premium: $70
Professional: $140
Your prices for the full version:
Home Premium: $199
Professional: $299
Sure, be glad that you have to pay more than double the price.
Or were you just too dumb to read the entire article? (or at least the bold sentence)
Our prices for the full version: (in Yankee dollars)
Home Premium: $70
Professional: $140
Your prices for the full version:
Home Premium: $199
Professional: $299
Sure, be glad that you have to pay more than double the price.
Those aren't the upgrade prices you will be paying. The article states that you will probably be paying more than the normal upgrade cost. (Home Premium -$119.00) The only way to get the super low price is to preorder. After that, you will be paying the same, probably more.
I think it is great, great to see some country who isn't afraid of Microsoft. All the retailer needs to do is include a cd with each copy they sell, with a bunch of different browsers on it. That way we can get actual competition, and that is a good thing!
You can upgrade with the full versions too, if you haven't noticed.
I hate it, too. All that peace. No border wars in years.
And were is teh promised rose garden? I mean, EU, I beg
your pardon, but didn't you promise me a rose garden?
I also shall miss the option to nuke my system with a failed upgrade. :-)
Or were you just too dumb to read the entire article? (or at least the bold sentence)
Our prices for the full version: (in Yankee dollars)
Home Premium: $70
Professional: $140
Your prices for the full version:
Home Premium: $199
Professional: $299
Sure, be glad that you have to pay more than double the price.
"But as history has shown us the prices in the EU are generally more expensive than of those in the States so the savings of picking up an EU copy may not be all that attractive to those who reside in the US."
Im glad we get the option of retail and upgrade and the price difference isnt that much as stated on the news article.
It is almost frightenly funny how you see that way _private corporation_ threats their customers is somehow EU's fault.. Grow up..
What, is it like Microsoft is FORCING you to use their software? They actually finally built a good version of IE and now everybody gets all ****y about it being included in their own OS!!! I hate Opera with a passion, Firefox actually is one of the top three browsers, and Safari, well I wish Apple didn't release it for Windows
I do like the idea of having a cd at retailers with all the browsers they have, but it is a waste of money because it is already widely free on the internet. People that don't know how to get them probably aren't interested in a different browser.
But it's pretty good already.
Upgrade installations stink anyway, as they can cause all sorts of troubles.
I agree upgrades do not go as smoothly as one expects, better to have full version over and upgrade. I always do a fresh install when a new OS comes out. M$ is a major bully over this issue and they said that it was impossible to leave IE out of the OS. Now you see whom is telling lies or fables. Win7 has an option to turn off IE but not uninstall or remove it but instead to delete the .exe file from normal points of launching things. Bogus if you ask me.
RTFA
+1
They should send any tech support calls from EU to Opera. Make them deal with it, since Opera caused all of this.
First of all IT Department uses same machines. They will take test machine do clean install on it, put the software on it and then push the image to other computers. Profiles are part of domain and they are saved. That's how it's done at Business level, just for your information.
There could be multiple images. One image for let's say group of 20 programmers who uses Visual Studio app and settings needs to be same for all of them. One image perhaps for JAVA programmers with Web Sphere installed in it etc.
Nobody does upgrade for each PC (200 of them lets say), are you insane?
And if they are about to try upgrade that wont work, i can guarantee it.
There could be multiple images. One image for let's say group of 20 programmers who uses Visual Studio app and settings needs to be same for all of them. One image perhaps for JAVA programmers with Web Sphere installed in it etc.
Nobody does upgrade for each PC (200 of them lets say), are you insane?
And if they are about to try upgrade that wont work, i can guarantee it.
Not to mention that most businesses will not immediately adopt Windows 7 across their entire range, and the article does state that Microsoft aims to have an upgrade option for EU people by the end of the year.
There could be multiple images. One image for let's say group of 20 programmers who uses Visual Studio app and settings needs to be same for all of them. One image perhaps for JAVA programmers with Web Sphere installed in it etc.
Nobody does upgrade for each PC (200 of them lets say), are you insane?
And if they are about to try upgrade that wont work, i can guarantee it.
Once again, not every business fits into your mindset (200 or so PCs). What about the small business that has 20-25 employees? Is it worth the time and costs for the lone IT staffer to pay for all of the software and time in order to make the image? I've heard of small IT departments before just doing in-place upgrades over a long weekend for groups smaller than 50 people.
That's a horrible solution. I feel sorry for the IT department at your company. I would have quit the first day if I knew.
I have different machine types everywhere, too.
I just bite the bullet and build images. We only have four machine types, so four images. It's not that big of a deal.
Which tells me that your company did crappy job. I am very open minded infact i bet you can group those different machines and have couple images. If every machine in your company is different i can tell you right away...you work for a joke company and whoever came up with that idea is an idiot.
There could be multiple images. One image for let's say group of 20 programmers who uses Visual Studio app and settings needs to be same for all of them. One image perhaps for JAVA programmers with Web Sphere installed in it etc.
Nobody does upgrade for each PC (200 of them lets say), are you insane?
And if they are about to try upgrade that wont work, i can guarantee it.
Once again, not every business fits into your mindset (200 or so PCs). What about the small business that has 20-25 employees? Is it worth the time and costs for the lone IT staffer to pay for all of the software and time in order to make the image? I've heard of small IT departments before just doing in-place upgrades over a long weekend for groups smaller than 50 people.
So what? Make one image which you will need in the future in case you get more employees. It requires more time and effort and money to do upgrade of each machine. In order to make an image you need clean install add all software and then create image backup using Windows 7 Backup Utility and you're done. You can push that image to all stations.
If your IT department depends on or uses 'upgrades' instead of providing an 'image' to the client machines, your company has a serious problem and bad IT people that don't understand what they are doing.
Even in the 'small' business world (5-10 machines), the IT person or IT company that handles the account should have a simple image for all clients that is a base, and then installs the client specific drivers after the image installation is done. PERIOD.
As for people in here saying, we have too many different types of machines, bullcr*p... You are thinking in XP or even older technology terms and have NO IDEA how to deploy Vista or Win7 and why Microsoft redesigned the whole installation process.
Even with XP image installs were the 'right' way to do things, and with Vista and Win7, it takes an IT person a couple of hours to create the install image that can be used again and again and again on ANY type of hardware, no matter if the user has a Netbook client or a super desktop.
This seems to be a major problem in the IT world, as they don't realize the options available, and how easy they can make their jobs.
As for EU and WIndows7 thing, the EU asked for it, and got it. This won't hurt businesses as they will be moving mainly from XP anyway, and the smart ones will be doing image based rollouts as I described above.
This will hurt the non-business/consumer Vista users, as they will have to a clean install instead of a quick upgrade.
As for people saying a clean install is always better, they don't know what they are talking about. Win7 technical does a clean install even when doing an upgrade and then re-applies the system settings to the installation. This is why XP was removed from the upgrade path, as there is too much that is 'legacy' that would make the install times insane as the system would have to do a Vista level upgrade, patch to SP1 and then do a Win7 level upgrade from there.
Oh, EU and XP users, the migration tools - transfer wizard stuff is pretty good, and will even move some software that it understands, so you aren't starting from scratch as you would have had to in the past. The migration tools were introduced after Vista shipped and have been improved on since then, and are far beyond the XP transfer tools that just basically migrate the User settings.
Most worksites should be backing up My Documents anyway, or what will happen when the hdd breaks?
I do thank the EU and Opera, maybe we can have some fair competition, and the worst browser will not win out just because it was installed on the computer. Hopefully now Microsoft wont take over the web, and force us to use active-x rubbish everywhere.
Yes, they jumped on the bandwagon of 1... Or maybe you have a list somewhere of any other country/region in the world that has stood up to Microsoft? Even the US was to scared.
This is a great decision, Windows has just been made a lot safer by removing ie. I bet you will see a huge drop in the number of EU botnets, once 7 becomes popular.
You can always get US copy and if you use other language then English, you can get that too and problems solved
No. RTFA.
Is no one reading the articles today before commenting?
What MS could have done is as simple as pre-installing IE in the EU version too, but hiding it until the user makes his/her own choice on which browser to use.
If they didn't go on this way it's probably for getting back some money they've lost because of EU (totally fine with it) and this counter-attack draws a nice line.
Also, as other users say, a clean installation is certainly better for the pc than upgrading it, and that's what I would have done anyway.
Are you kidding me, loads of people don't think Microsoft should tie IE to the OS, this has been discussed at length.
Hellooo? Read the article, people?
The important bit is even in bold!
Not a smart move if you ask me...
This was not the move that the EU asked for, in fact we haven't heard the end of it. Hopefully the EU will force Microsoft to install a decent browser with their OS, like firefox or opera.... hell, even safari would be an improvment... although ie8 has gotten better. Will never forgive Microsoft for ie6, and breaking so many web standards.
Calculator? Photo viewer? MS Paint?
Do Apple have to offer other browsers?
Do Apple have an monopoly of OS? No, then they don't. Microsoft are a convicted monopoly, or have you conveniently forgotten about that?
Last edited by CyberDragon777 on 25 Jun 2009 - 18:50
1. It actually made it *harder* not easier, for alternative browsers (especially Firefox and Opera) to gain marketshare on any computer that will see Windows 7 E, as they (Firefox and Opera) will have to go to ISPs and have the browser included with the bundle from the ISP (whereas with IE installed, they can simply go to the respective home pages and *download/install* them).
2. You've also massively screwed your own IT industry (all those companies that build and preload Windows for individuals and companies in the EU). While some of those customers *will* choose Linux (because you've tilted the playing field that way, and that was doubtless deliberate), some will *still* choose Windows 7 E, despite the higher price, and then, in a fit of pique, install IE 8 *anyway*.
The EU is about to relearn the same lesson it SHOULD have learned with the N Editions - cutting off your nose to spite your face (or, in this case, your own citizens) is never a smart idea.
2. If somebody in an IT industry can't download and install a browser, they are working in the wrong industry.
Sure, they could have just not sold Windows7 in the EU. You need to look up what the EU is requiring from MS and why removing IE was the only option that allowed them to ship Windows7 in the EU without violating previous EU rulings.
So ya, MS made the decision, but the EU put them into a corner with no other way out, except to say FU EU and not give users there Windows7.
I think the EU is trying to unleash the grip IE has in the business market. IE6 is still pretty much the horrid standard right now because IE was deeply ingrained with Windows. Only way to free that is this tough route of separating IE from Windows which brings another point up.
IE should be a separate program but the trident engine is still tied somewhat with other parts of the OS. Should that not be rectified by Microsoft to make IE a truly stand alone program which would mean no issues with other Windows features.
From a home user point of view, I think it's a rather unfair on Microsoft but on the business side, I think it may be a good idea for everyone.
OEMs can choose to install any browser and set it to default instead of IE.
This is true for any Windows released anywhere in the world. Anything else would make the playing field unfair to Microsoft.
The United States are #1 in the world for one thing and that's making up the most absurd lawsuits. Compare a European manual with one for the US...
I do have to admit that the EU was wrong to sue Microsoft for the browser monopoly thing. But the reaction of Microsoft is really like a 6 year old. I can't do this, you won't be able to do that...
Microsoft was already losing some of the market share and I am pretty shure this won't help them. Or at least it will refrain users from upgrading from XP to Win7...
Have you seen just how much Microsoft pays to the EU due to these "problems"? More than you and your children will earn your entire life.
And yes, people will ditch XP and install 7. Because the new features are just too useful.
Sometimes, y'know, there aren't quick and simple solutions to everything. There's nothing wrong with complaining if you don't have a solution.
Right...
They are getting tired of this crap about being told they need to make it easy for Firefox/Opera to get their browser onto people's computers
I will admit that if I was Bill Gates, I would start phasing out support totally for the EU. Not worth the hassle and expense. Of course, that is why I will probably never be that rich.
This is not true!
Directly from the article on the BBC News site:
In the UK the upgrade version of the Home Premium edition of Windows 7, available to those with an existing Windows license, will be £79.99.
By contrast buying this in a shop, and which can be installed on more than one machine, will cost £149.99.
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8118749.stm
So the way I see it, there will stil be upgrade PRICING in the UK (and I presume the rest of the EU) but everyone will have to do a full install. Presumably those purchasing an upgrade will have to prove they've got a qualifying previous version.
"The essential point of our case is consumer choice," said the spokesman.
"We would want to look extremely closely at the terms under which Microsoft is making Internet Explorer available to computer manufacturers," he said.
"If the effect of the technical separation of Windows and Internet Explorer is neutralised by particular terms and conditions they offer to manufacturers to install Internet Explorer, they're no better off."
The preferred remedy for Europe, he said, was to offer users a screen when they first switch on Windows 7 that gives them a choice between IE, Chrome, Firefox, Safari or Opera.
"For them to claim that this is somehow imposed by the Commission or is going to resolve the problem with the Commission is far from clear," he said.
"It's certainly not because we've asked them to do it."
So now Microsoft are making it worse for themselves and they can't even blame the EU!!! Plus the fact the EU says that this does nothing to stem any investigation it all seems a pointless waste of time, effort and money.
Hardly. Preventative measures are better than having to deal with it afterwards.
Not everyone in the EU agree's with what the EU do, you know. In fact, many of us would like OUT of the bloody thing...
Apart from that theres not much else we really see and I don't think it's worth the hassle being in the EU brings.
Apart from that theres not much else we really see and I don't think it's worth the hassle being in the EU brings.
Then I suggest you and others read up? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union
If you are from UK then i can tell you that many of us on continent would also like you to leave. I mean whats the point? If you _really_ want to leave then go, just dont expect any free rides.
One more point I'd like to make is that sadly neowin news writers have for the past month or so been pretty slow to report news that has already either been reported by other neowin members or other forums days and sometimes weeks before it makes the front page here as is the case with this news article.
However, you can still install 7 over vista but you will have to reinstall applications and it gets a bit messy.
Also, it is only an upgrade license so you need to have an older OS license first. This is different to the identical but higher priced Full product as that can license up to 3 separate machines
Where did you read this sir? All I've seen is "full versions at upgrade prices"; nothing about the type of license.
"In Europe, the full version will be priced as if it were an upgrade version if bought by an existing Windows licence holder.
In the UK the upgrade version of the Home Premium edition of Windows 7, available to those with an existing Windows license, will be £79.99.
By contrast buying this in a shop, and which can be installed on more than one machine, will cost £149.99.
WINDOWS 7 UK UPGRADE PRICES
Home Premium - £79.99
Professional - £189.99
Ultimate - £199.99
"In Europe, the full version will be priced as if it were an upgrade version if bought by an existing Windows licence holder.
In the UK the upgrade version of the Home Premium edition of Windows 7, available to those with an existing Windows license, will be £79.99.
By contrast buying this in a shop, and which can be installed on more than one machine, will cost £149.99.
WINDOWS 7 UK UPGRADE PRICES
Home Premium - £79.99
Professional - £189.99
Ultimate - £199.99
These prices are for limited time only after which they go up. Check out the article on PC Pro.
Yeah you're right. I probably shouldn't read/think/reply whilst eating dinner and sending a bunch of text messages.
(I'm having fish fingers tonight for anyone interested)
I'm off down the pub now, bye ... love you ...bye ... no you hang up first ...
This is only MS trying to offer a crappy solution that they think will make everything OK again.
Every country and every bloc has always had regulations what can be sold to people and what can not, why should the dominating operation system be different? It actualyl confuses me that how can these kids pick a side of microsoft, private corporation thats only reason for existence is make money over EU who just tries to make sure that no unfair practices take place.
Yeah, this is sooo horrible...
Not having crappy IE8 by default AND cheaper? Awful.
The EU arw throwing their toys out of the pram and MS responded by taking those toys away.
I'm also glad that MS chose to do this rather than delay the launch.
Thankfully i always buy a full OEM copy anyway.
Obviously this wasn't Microsoft's fault - it's what they had to do. Whether it is the EU's fault, as well, I'm still deciding - I have no idea whether they are right or wrong with their case.
You know, this is actually good - less friggin' boxes at the store.
Wow, how a few months and a couple of elections can change the world...
So much for the EU ever becoming a credible political or economic body outside of the EU, they are shoving themselves down a hole of intolerance and conservative protectionism that is making even people in the USA cringe.
The US moves away from right wing nuts and the EU runs to them. Weird...
Anyway I noticed on amazon.co.uk that they have full versions on an alert basis and are Windows 7 Home Premium E (PC) E I guess means Europe.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_w_h_?u...words=windows+7
Why is it that every anti-EU person is from the UK?
Yeah, we know you "had an empire" - it fell apart, get over it. You're just a little island now and part of the rest of the team.
Yeah, we know you "had an empire" - it fell apart, get over it. You're just a little island now and part of the rest of the team.
Because UK people are one of the most uneducated people in europe when it comes to EU. And dumb US-led media of them throws gasoline on fire. Simple question to ask ask people such as leesmithg is "who are these un-elected leaders of EU?" I mean people who use power in EU are the parlamnet and the goverments of the nations.. and they both have good democratic backing for their power.
Butthurt much?
As a british person, I must protest. You claim we are the most uneducated people in europe, yet we have some of the best universities in the world, mostly filled with british people. We have the mother of all democracies, who now seems to like giving our sovreign rights as a nation to the EU.
I meant that when it comes to EU-subject. And your post confirms that by claiming that your country gives its right away without realizing that there is no eu over its memberstates. Sometimes i'd hope that UK eurosceptics would read at least wikipedia article about this subject before opening their mouth. Would that be too much to ask?
When the day comes that someone produces software that will trump what Windows can do on a PC level for the majority of the user base, let's just hope they don't see dollar signs and sell out like other companies have done. These smaller companies have allowed companies like MS to grow by selling out to them when they have something unique. Sucks, because we all know MS could really jack those companies around with their "power" and money but in all reality we all have kinda allowed this to happen, directly and indirectly.
How much does the MS pay you to post such bs to these news? EU does not do this for money, those fines are just drop in the ocean. EU Budget in this year is over 130 billion wich is just a percent of the whole GDP.
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