Last week, a website named Semi Accurate reported that heated words were exchanged between the computer maker Apple and graphics chip producer NVIDIA, regarding their current agreement. It seems that NVIDIA was being "arrogant", according to Stuff.tv, and they may have been sent packing for the next three or four years.Only last year, Steve Jobs proudly unveiled the new MacBook Pro line that boasted NVIDIA 8600M GT graphics processors, but as mentioned, they may already have had their turn. AppleInsider have said that, "[the chips being dropped] would start with iMacs and MacBooks based on Intel's Nehalem processor architecture, the tipsters say, but would get progressively wider as time goes on." It hasn't been officially confirmed that this will happen or any other details about it but if this is true, expect some more information shortly.
It is speculated that this may have been due to the problems that Apple laptops have had with the aforementioned chip sets; they are known to have an anomaly which renders them useless over time, due to heat trouble -- Apple has had to replace all faulty devices with the issue, and cover them with an extra three years warranty, leading to massive costs. We wouldn't be surprised if this is all true, however; a while back, Apple dropped all usage of ATI (AMD) chips in their Power Mac G4 model when the company released their MacWorld plans a day early. Regardless, we'll see what happens soon.
(i know the story references the problamatic mobile chips... but Apple has a history of telling companies what to do then getting mad when they dont)
Hopefully this won't hurt them so much.
Hopefully this won't hurt them so much.
Intel already had a near monopoly on mobile GPUs. Not that you can call those barebones graphics chips that Intel makes a real GPU. Nehalem isn't very good at raster graphics, its strength is raytracing and no game engine uses raytracing. So once again Intel is screwing PC gaming because it wants to push its proprietary standards that no one else wants to use.
Microsoft & Intel, still up to the same old games, screwing over the rest of the industry and their customers! Well, not that Apple's minuscule marketshare is going to make any difference to PC gaming. But if PC laptops start packing Nehalems instead of real GPUs then it is going to make things worse.
from my experience Intel based computer with ATI graphics have there own problems, an example for Apple is the EFI update that came out a few weeks ago that corrected a problem with ATI GPU's.
If Apple decides to ditch Nvidia and go with ATI, they really should think about adding AMD processors as-well
from my experience Intel based computer with ATI graphics have there own problems, an example for Apple is the EFI update that came out a few weeks ago that corrected a problem with ATI GPU's.
If Apple decides to ditch Nvidia and go with ATI, they really should think about adding AMD processors as-well
I would love if that happens.. just to add some pressure to the intel freaks..
Does AMD offers anything that matches the the Core i7?
from my experience Intel based computer with ATI graphics have there own problems, an example for Apple is the EFI update that came out a few weeks ago that corrected a problem with ATI GPU's.
If Apple decides to ditch Nvidia and go with ATI, they really should think about adding AMD processors as-well
AMD are nearly done rebranding ATi into AMD, so when I said AMD I meant GPUs not CPUs.
And yet those same GPUs have NO such issues on properly engineered PC laptops...hmmm?
Yeah, exactly. Why is it that these issues are only being reported on Macs? Perhaps form over function?
They would be better off going back to ATi chips.
Fact of the matter is, any card, CPU, or whatever can get hot. The key idea is creating a design that not only looks pretty, but functions well. Sure, a laptop shouldn't be designed like a refrigerator just to keep the components cool, but you'd think that Apple who is SUPPOSED to be TESTING their designs would have actually SEEN issues with heat early on. I mean, we're not even talking extra months of testing here, but a simple week alone should be suffice in being able to tell whether a laptop can get hot under normal conditions.
Whether they choose ATi or nVidia doesn't matter. Not testing their products thoroughly will still lead to a sh---y experience for the general consumers.
Indeed.
Apple users are already always behind on the latest graphics options. I can't see this helping.
Apple users are already always behind on the latest graphics options. I can't see this helping.
but! but! but!!! Apple told me they have the best hardware and most up to date out there!!! darn them! Guess I'll just have to go back to my measley nVIDIA Geforce 295 x3 SLI setup then..... sigh....
NEVER.
Oh, no wait, ALWAYS.
Microsoft had a run in with nVidia over chips on the original Xbox, which was a contributing factor in ATI being chosen for 360 (along with intellectual property rights related to production and unification of ATI's designs with IBM, and IBM and ATI's respective services in chip design and ability to work together).
Maybe Apple will go with Intel? GMA FOR EVERYONE!
Sony went with nVidia if I'm not mistaken, but what all heat issues have they had? Also, it doesn't sound like a hurricane starting the machine. Fans only begin to get loud when the machine has been on for a long time for many people.
I'm not an nVidia "fanboy" or anything. I just feel design is much more important, whichever brand a company decides to go with. If they can't create a decent machine with the desired specs with one brand, perhaps they should try another or possibly consider changing their design?
This post may be rife with ignorance:
I doubt that even Apple could strong arm Intel into letting them have an onboard ATI gpu, considering when amd bought ati intel revoked ati's licenses to use an intel mobo.
This can all be just me talking hot air if apple started off with osx86 with ati if not, they might have to ditch intel and go with amd. If amd does'nt allow that to happen then they would have to go with Via. But via and nvidia seem to be buddy-buddy. so thats the x86 line gone. unless cyrix is till around or they go back to the ppc or use Sony's CELL BE.
</rant>
Apple say it's Nvidia's fault... hmm I don't think so.. Nvidia cards are very robust, most manufacturers offer extended warranty by default with Nvidia graphics cards - can only imagine the problem lies with Apple hardware, and Apple are probably unwilling to admit this...
Go Nvidia, you guys are the best!
p.s. I find it funny that on the same page there is an ATi advert right below where I am typing... haha
Nvidia cards are rubbish!
Nvidia cards are rubbish!
Speak for yourself.
Cause that bug never existed.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Confirmed-N...ion-83748.shtml
Oh - wait.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Confirmed-N...ion-83748.shtml
Oh - wait.
I see a problem with overclocking, not with the fundamental design. Overclocking causes lots of problems as it requires many components to work at over their rated speed and/or temperature.
Under flaws.
nVidia tried to fix the data corruption issue with drivers but it never worked. For example the A8N-SLI (SE) models suffer from horrible data corruption under various circumstances, I was lucky enough to encounter this with a Stripe RAID setup which wiped out all the data on both drives.
nVidia forums have people with the old chips to this date with no remedy to the issue from nVidia apart from silence when you tell them the driver fix doesn't work.
Their cards have worked just fine, drivers included, and everything for me. Would I buy a motherboard with an nvidia chipset? Probably not. Just as I wouldn't buy a computer from Dell, but would certainly buy one of their monitors!
Different products, different story.
Also, he said cards, you said chips. I would ask why would you even bother to bring up a totally different product, but you troll the board so frequently, I don't honestly care.
Nvidia cards are rubbish!
Speak for yourself.
http://www.neowin.net/news/main/08/07/03/n...th-laptop-chips
Was a known problem with some of the chips they had problems where they died prematurely, I believe it was some of the Gforce GO 7 and 8 series chips.
Nvidia cards are rubbish!
Speak for yourself.
http://www.neowin.net/news/main/08/07/03/n...th-laptop-chips
Was a known problem with some of the chips they had problems where they died prematurely, I believe it was some of the Gforce GO 7 and 8 series chips.
Yup and my HP DV9 series laptop suffered from it! So did a few other graphics cards at work. I can tell you now nvidia stuff is crap, the quality in their laptop cards is shameful at best, same with their chipset stuff! I ahd to send in laptop around 6 times for graphics card issues, whereby it artifacts, cooks, melts, fuses, gets dam hot.
I should know i have a load of their version 6 chipsets and they refuse to build with ghost...... we had to get some plexus nic cards!
The overheating issue is with laptops and their integrated display adapters + chipsets as the original article states. Yes, even a laptop has a "card" - if you want to call it that.
Calling someone a troll was against the rules as I recall.
Their cards have worked just fine, drivers included, and everything for me. Would I buy a motherboard with an nvidia chipset? Probably not. Just as I wouldn't buy a computer from Dell, but would certainly buy one of their monitors!
Different products, different story.
Also, he said cards, you said chips. I would ask why would you even bother to bring up a totally different product, but you troll the board so frequently, I don't honestly care.
+1
Steve Jobs, showing that he's back at work...
Apple is probably mad that another company is hogging the arrogance spotlight from them and they feel threatened, like a caged animal LOL. Not like Apple has the world's supply of arrogance juice... Oh wait.
oh wait
No matter how much "better" Intel video gets, it's still crap compared to everything else.
However, NVidia doesn't like to play nice and have some 'grand' vision of themselves that they own the market.
Let's look at the recent past...
In 2000 when NVidia and Microsoft partnered for the Original XBox, NVidia got a deal on providing the GPUs for the XBox and in return Microsoft's engineering gave NVidia access to the next generation of GPU technologies.
It seemed like a win win for both companies; however, after NVidia took the technology they got from Microsoft and got their products to market, they decided MS could pay them more money and they both ended up in court.
NVidia wanted more money, but the thing that was 'less known' is that their FX or 5xxx generation and subsuquent 6xxx and 7xxx GPU technology was all based on technology they got from their parnership with Microsoft. (The Original XBxox GPU had both VS and PS technology.)
So NVidia got some really good technology that they used for their own products and technologies to rule the GPU world for a few years because of Microsoft, yet when they had this success starting, they basically told Microsoft to go pound sand.
Now lets look further at NVidia...
Next generation Graphics were the buzz around 2004/2005 with the XBox 360 that was based on a DX11 GPU technology from Microsoft/ATI. Like the previous deal with NVidia, MS went to ATI and helped them build the next generation of GPU technology. Hence the introduction of the unified shader GPU and multi-tasking GPU technologies.
The features of DX11 were to be in Vista at the time, and then it was still called DX10, thus bringing the PC platform up to the same level as the XBox 360.
NVidia threw a fit over the intial DX10 requirements, as their upcoming 8xxx series GPUs would NOT have qualified to be DX10 as they didn't implement the full DX10 technologies original introduced.
So after a major take my toys and go home moment, Microsoft pulled back the DX10 specifications so that the 8xxx series GPUs from NVidia would be able to be certified as DX10. Microsoft then shoved the removed technologies into the DX11 project.
Even the DX10.1 specification NVidia fought, as their 9xxx series AGAIN wasn't anything new, and wouldn't support the 10.1 set.
Now with DX11 and Windows7, where Microsoft is shoving DX11 to the original specifications they wanted DX10 to fully be with a few new technologies, you will find NVidia throwing another fit, as they can't compete with the ATI chips on a 'tecnical' level for these features, even though they can produce current or past generation chips that are faster than most of ATI's offerings.
If you look at the ATI line of GPUs that came out since the XBox 360, you can see the simple, but powerful features of the XBox 360 inspired technology. As most of ATI's cards were already 10.1 and even partially DX11 compliant going back to 2006.
With Windows7, Microsoft wants the WDDM 1.1 technologies to be fully implemented, but have given NVidia a pass on producing them for the 7xxx and older cards, even though the 7xxx cards, even though Microsoft insists the 7xxx series cards are capable of doing this.
WDM/WDDM 1.1 technology gives over more of the locking and scheduling at the driver level to the OS. It is basically the next step in making GPU application agnostic for full pre-emptive multi-tasking from applications. Vista and WDM 1.0 already does a good job, but there are circumstances where the driver can still lock the OS to process calls from an API set set like DirectX or OpenGL. And when you are moving to a world with multiple 3D applications running on the screen at the same time, it is important for the OS to have the final say on the scheduling of these applications. (Think of it like the scheduler in the 386 that allowed full 32bit pre-emptive multi-tasking OSes to not be a slave to applications controlling the hardware and locking out the OS and other applications. It is a big thing in the upcoming years.)
Even now NVidia is dragging their feet on DX11 technology, and poorly implemented DX10 technology in their products (not even doing an optimal pass on the GPU physics and calculations requirements of DX10 because they offer PhysX instead.)
And ATI cards are already DX10.1 ready and some will probably be adapted to DX11 fairly easily. As developers finally give the finger to XP with Windows7 coming out, you will see DX10 and DX11 games FINALLY that are built from the ground up for the technology instead of a DX9 engine with DX10 textures added on to make it look a bit more pretty and killing performance. If the engine and design starts with DX10 or DX11 as the 'basis', the same games will run faster than DX9 games, because of all the lower level optimizations that just are NOT IN the current DX10 offerings because developers don't want to alienate XP users YET.
----
NVidia and Apple have a rocky partnership and it is easy to understand, as NVidia thinks they are Intel and the best GPU company all rolled into one, and try to tell Microsoft, and IBM and now Apple what to do, yet not realizing that when consumer demands for DX11 and other WDM technologies that Windows7 supports are not offered or done as well by NVidia as they are ATI, Nvidia may find themselves as a mobile GPU company licking their wounds. They also have problems as technology is no longer being shared with them from IBM or AMD or Microsoft because of the crap they have pulled with these companies already. Whoops...
As for Apple, they are mean to all their hardware suppliers and want them to jump through big hoops. One example that specifically pertains to NVidia is the Hybrid 9400 GPU, where Apple wanted NVidia to help them make it possible for OS X to flip modes on the fly (instead of the current log out and reboot the GUI). A) This was not NVidia's problem B) OS X does not have the architecture/driver system to do this, so it was like asking NVidia to re-engineer OS X's driver model for Apple. C) This got worse as NVidia delivered drivers for Vista and Win7 that does allow the drivers to flip modes without the user even noticing, let alone rebooting the GUI, and this really angered some of the 'less informed' people at Apple, as they thought it was a slap in their face, when in reality it was because Vista's WDDM driver model was designed to do things like this ease, and not something NVidia had to invent or re-engineer for Microsoft.
Maybe you should submit it to Neowin as an editorial/article. It's as good or better than a lot of the content I've been seeing on the site lately.
Seriously though my eyes are burning
Just buy a PC.
Why would he spread such misinformation? Did nVidia strip him of his manhood?
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