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That was Matt and Olivia's budget. If their budget was higher, they'd get more money as seen in the other adds.

I thought they actually gave them money

They do give them money. Watch the ad again.

I thought the money amout was determined by microsoft and not them then, bah whatever, i got confused.

Matt and Olivia are *actors*, just like everyone else before in these MS laptop ads, and only get money for playing their role, nothing else.

No they are not actors, do your research.

The people tell the marketing group what they want to spend, they proceeded to shop for the best deal that meets their requirements. They believe up until the end that they are going to pay for the laptop (which is why they always try to go under their budget) at which time they are told of the real situation.

Lol.

lol +1

Yeah but that's what you want, Matt and Olivia wanted a big screen for less than what a MBP would cost.

Some people like big screens...

Exactly. And that's why this ads are kinda flawed.

Exactly. I do. I can't stand anything less than 17", because of size and resolution.

The point is that at ANY screen size the PC laptops are a FAR better value than the Mac laptops are...period.

I am sick of this Macbook Pro thing. They made the unibody Macbook Pro ( 15 - 17 ). They thought it is good so they made the unibody Macbook and burried themselves into serious brainstorming. "How could we refresh the Macbook line ? " "I know ! Do not pull the white Macbook out of the market, rename the 13" unibody Macbook to Macbook pro and we are done. Oh and give a plus port we removed and an SD card slot and we are done. And spread some rumours - SD means startup disk - .... "

This is stupid.

You're joking, right? Take a look at Apple's adds. There's NO comparison; the adds from MS are at least talking about what their company (and OEMs) has to offer.

Actually, the Laptop Hunters ads say absolutely nothing about what Microsoft has to offer (they never even mention Windows). They strategically pick people who's budget or preferences for a specific size laptop exclude a Mac model, and put those on TV.

he mentions Vista in the ad. and he says that they can view photos on it, because "it has Windows Photo Gallery"

Yes, they strategically pick people who represent the general population. You know, those who don't spend more than necessary on a PC.

These ads aren't all about Windows, they're about the whole platform. The PCs being talked about are Windows PCs, made by MS partners. Apple is a different PC platform - that's why they can be compared.

People know that PCs run Windows. This is common knowledge. Plus, they show the laptop and you can clearly see Windows on the screen.

And considering these people are actors, then your point about picking people is worthless. The point on the MS ads is you can get what you want in a computer...cheaper...if you buy a PC.

They are only going to make this offer to people who's budget or requirements specifically exclude a Mac.

Quite a lot of people, then?

If they want to pay $2500 to get a 17" then yes, they can.

They could keep the Mac if it fit the specifications and budget but for the same price the laptop hunters seem to find much more in the PC models. They give the Macs as much attention as they deserve.

There was on ad that was another brand, but so far most of them have been HPs. If anything, these ads say much more about HP's bewildering array of different models (which often simply change model numbers depending on which store they are sold at!) than they ever do about Windows itself.

HP is also sometimes a big supporter of Microsoft ads. For example, HP was the official sponsor of the Microsoft Student Partners program last year.

Yes because the average person knows how to run a hackintosh. Who do you think these people are?

They could have done a lot of things. They obviously wanted a laptop.

A mac mini isn't a hackintosh? wtf?

A mini isn't a laptop.

That's what my post was about! They wanted a laptop, but they didn't really need one. I give up; there's no point arguing with some people.

Barring a Mac Mini, there's also those small form PCs. Dell Minis come to mind. Acer Aspire One's another.

Let's face it too: mention the term "dual boot" to average people who use computers for simple stuff like sharing photos, and they'll just be asking... "why would I need to do that?"

You can hand a baby a lollipop, and for whatever reason, he might cry.

You can smack a baby over the head with an HP laptop, and for whatever reason, he might cry.

The message is that Macs are either too expensive or too small and netbooks are way too small.

It's very likely that shop had a support desk. You probably couldn't see it, because the store was actually big, and had a lot to offer. Apple stores are more like EB/Gamestop: small, specialized hardware, wall of software, counter takes up 20% of the space. You don't exactly go to an Apple store to be wowed by selection. You also don't go to an Apple store to see how the competition is stacking up. You also don't go to an Apple store to see the latest technology.

Not to mention, odds are that store sells parts for people who want to build their own computers. But you know Apple. Teach a man to fish, he'll feed himself. Sell a man a fish, he's a customer.

Trolling???

"add Vista to that and id rather spend a few $100 more to get a mac, a bunch of decent software and better support."

"Microsoft are so dumb"

Nice to see that in your rant up there, you've completely overlooked one major point:

Why would regular users NEED to know how to build Hackintoshes? Why would they want to dual boot?

You're severely underestimating the software side of Windows PCs these days... this isn't 2001 anymore, wake up.

This was Best Buy, rather obviously given the layout. Their support desk is called Geek Squad and is anything but free. I've noticed BB has recently stocked their very own Windows guy. I'd say he was a response to the Geniuses but I didn't see him fixing anything for anyone.

My next laptop will be purchased with gnu/linux on it(from the web most likely since MS won't let anyone carry a real threat). It'll be cheaper and come with less crap on it. I'll run Windows only as a VM.

sniff sniff.. WHO Cares? lol

You mean they hired an ACTRESS for this ADVERTISEMENT? That's madness!

She's not a very hot model. Just sayin...

No, this is Sparta!!! lol

Jesus Christ The best editing (Video Audio Office and Imaging) are all either PC only or availible to both .

Grab yourself Adobe CS4 Master Collection , Procoder and Office 2010 It'll knock 9 kinds of crap out of apples rubbish bundled software .

Isnt single descent video editing application out there for Windows ?



Then Whats this ?

Nonsense

Last edited by bob21 on 09 Jul 2009 - 15:23

Apple machines are the best when it comes to video/photo editing

Great! So go load up Windows on an Apple machine and enjoy.

Premiere Pro CS4 is also on the Mac. Just saying...

That's why the other guy who said that Windows doesn't have any decent video editor was so wrong...

So basically what you're saying is, because Apple don't let other PCs run OSX, but Microsoft does, that makes an Apple PC more flexible?

This after also admitting you just buy a new PC rather than try to upgrade?


By your own justification, wouldn't that be a reason not to fight it? Or are you just interested in a bit of schadenfreude?


You're very confusing.

It's an argument they have already won. They won with Apple because now Macs can run Windows.

Heck, they even won you over.

If anything the flexibility is entirely in Apple's hardware, which isn't even Apple hardware. It's just had the Apple logo stamped onto it. The one part of the Apple experience that they actually develop--MacOS--is not flexible. It's limited to one platform that doesn't even have anything special about it.

Apple users insist that you can upgrade an Apple desktop with the same variety of hardware as any other PC desktop. If that's the case, they're admitting that there's nothing special or unique or superior about the hardware configuration of an Apple. The only thing unique is the motherboard. That's all. That's it. And a chipset is not so freakin' magical or challenging to work with that Apple should have any real reason to restrict its OS to just one.

People bring up durability, unibody this and that (and sweet lord would people stop bringing up unibody construction--we get it, it's apparently the ONLY feature a Macbook has anymore), and none of it has anything to do with OS stability. Lacking the uniqueness of hardware, Apple's OS is all they have to separate themselves from the pack. And if there's nothing unique enough about the hardware to warrant limiting their OS to one chipset, then it's hard to interpret as anything other than Apple being dead convinced they would go bankrupt if they tried to compete with Windows head-on.

Last edited by Joshie on 09 Jul 2009 - 18:50

What I am basically saying is that an Apple machine has any of the capabilities of a Windows computer because you can also put Windows on the Apple machine. That seem quite logical to me.



After a year or 2 and new software is out like a new OS or CS4 then yes once a machine start to feel slow I upgrade the machine. I work on the machines, its sensible I get the most out of them as time = money. A good machine costs a couple of thousand, it pays for its self in 1 job. Thats still flexible as you cant just upgrade a PC to get the most out of the latest technology. To use the latest fastest memory you need a new motherboard, the same with a new processor, the newest graphics card might be PCIE but your board was AGP or PCIX, you want SATA 2 speeds but your board goes at SATA 1 speeds. Sometimes the only original part left is the case.

Thats personal preferences I guess, I find a machine runs fine for a given time and then technology has passed a point where I could upgrade the machine so I get a new one.



Windows as a brand needs reinforcing, especially when there has been so much bad press, so yes, they need to keep fighting. Those machines in the ads have Vista on, there no escaping it. The "Im a PC" ads were much better, wide demographic featured, kids talking about things they have created, stars working on Windows etc... showcases what could be done in Windows. Its bargain basement advertising at the moment.

To which I merely say: and why is this?

Because Apple says so.

It's quite possible to run OSX on other hardware - but Apple doesn't let you. They sue people who do. Even then, it has nothing like the amount of hardware support Windows enjoys.

Basically, it's disingenuous to describe Apple PCs as more flexible in this aspect, when it's Apple itself that's forcing other PCs to lose that flexibility.


I'm still not really seeing how that is an issue. During a recession, this is the type of ad it's sensible to be running.

Its not about being disingenuous, a fact is a fact, and the discussion was about flexibility, not the business practices of certain companies.

They sue companies who distribute their operating system without their permission, just as any company would. I could fake a bunch of Microsoft logos and certificates and pass myself off as an authorised distributer but Microsoft would sue me.

Its an issue because they cant sell their OS on its features and benefits. But again going back to bargain basement, if the machine cost a little more maybe the different manufactures could have afforded to have released stable vista drivers and not have been a part of the problem. Cheapest does not equal best as these adverts are trying to get people to believe.

I'm sorry, but I had to respond to such a bull**** statement that "Apple computers are more flexible."

Coming from a technician who works across all three platforms, and is working on a MBP right now, Apple is by far the worst machine in terms of flexibility. Being able to run windows in Bootcamp is not a feature, it is a crutch to make up for the complete lack of drivers and mac-compatible software platforms on the open market. A person should not be forced to dual-boot operating systems just to open themselves to a larger software market. If you are trying to brand that as "flexibility" then you are a fool.

Not to mention, Apple has even worse hardware compatibility. What kind of memory does your Macbook use? Just check the model number on your macboo.. oh wait, macs don't have model numbers. They just secretly revise the hardware evey few months, and possibly change the clock specifications for various components.

Now you have to check the label on your existing memo.. oh wait, there isn't any label, because labels carry brands. We wouldn't want people to notice third party components in our Apple computers, now do we? Then what justification would we have for charging three times the price.

Now you either have to chase down a revision chart on the interwebs, and figure out what revision your computer is(and remember the month you bought it), or haggle with the guys at the genius bar who will insist that using buying computer components outside of Apple is a huge mistake. They will even insist you pay more money for a seagate hard drive that has an Apple logo on it.

Oh, and good luck replacing the hard drive in your MBP. It's not contained inside an easily-accessible drive bay like every other PC laptop on the world market. You have to detach the entire upper frame and *carefully* detach it from a micro-thin SATA flexcable. It's a big hassle, like every other non-modular part in the computer.

Don't even get me started on the lack of Mac compatible video cards or the exorbitantly expensive ECC memory they put into their desktop models.

Never, ever should the term "Apple" and flexibility be used in the same sentence. You have to damn-near reprogram an iPod just to use it with other music software, or jailbreak an iPhone just to get it working with competing software that is BANNED from the Apple store. Unless you are talking about the fruit, I never want to hear that comparison again. "It just works" is the reason I throw their white wall-wort Airport adapters in the trash and plug in a Linksys router instead, because those damn things actually work.

[quote=Kojio said,]I'm sorry, but I had to respond to such a bull**** statement that "Apple computers are more flexible."

Coming from a technician who works across all three platforms, and is working on a MBP right now, Apple is by far the worst machine in terms of flexibility. Being able to run windows in Bootcamp is not a feature, it is a crutch to make up for the complete lack of drivers and mac-compatible software platforms on the open market. A person should not be forced to dual-boot operating systems just to open themselves to a larger software market. If you are trying to brand that as "flexibility" then you are a fool.[/quote]

Coming from someone who also works across 3 platforms I would like to say you are the fool sir. Can you run Apple software on Windows, no, you cant run industry standard tools, such as FinalCut on Windows. I can run both Windows and Apple software on the mac. Sometimes I might need to dual boot but only if I want full access to the Graphics Card otherwise I get the Windows partition to boot into VMWare and everything runs in the 1 OS.

That way I can work on any software package, on any OS, on 1 machine. You cant do that on Windows. In the Industry I work in sometimes its better to use a mac and associated software, sometimes PCs are better. Again I can, on one machine, I can preview a CSS template in all relevant OS's (including iPhone, Internet Explorer 5.5 >8, Firefox 2&3, Chrome and Safari) including the slight differences between how something looks in Firefox on Windows and on Mac (due to slight differences in font handling). Thats flexibility...

[quote=Kojio said,]
Not to mention, Apple has even worse hardware compatibility. What kind of memory does your Macbook use? Just check the model number on your macboo.. oh wait, macs don't have model numbers. They just secretly revise the hardware evey few months, and possibly change the clock specifications for various components. [/quote]

About This Mac > More Info > Memory > 6GB 800Mhz DDR2 FB-DIMM

I cant believe you cant easily find what memory a mac needs and you call yourself a professional. My dad has upgraded his MacPro a number of times, more memory, SATA cards and drives, new ati card. Hes not an IT professional and he managed it, and didnt buy from Apple either, gets the memory from a local computer fair.

[quote=Kojio said,]
Now you have to check the label on your existing memo.. oh wait, there isn't any label, because labels carry brands. We wouldn't want people to notice third party components in our Apple computers, now do we? Then what justification would we have for charging three times the price.[/quote]

Wrong again, the memory carries the same stickers as the PC counterparts. It usually says something like Kingston followed by numbers and letters, these numbers and letters are a secret code known only to Steve Jobs, erm no wait, its what Kingston puts on all memory. Go to their website and it will even take you through a couple of easy steps to confirm the correct memory you need if YOU are still confused.[/quote]

[quote=Kojio said,]Now you either have to chase down a revision chart on the interwebs, and figure out what revision your computer is(and remember the month you bought it), or haggle with the guys at the genius bar who will insist that using buying computer components outside of Apple is a huge mistake. They will even insist you pay more money for a seagate hard drive that has an Apple logo on it.

[quote=Kojio said,]Oh, and good luck replacing the hard drive in your MBP. It's not contained inside an easily-accessible drive bay like every other PC laptop on the world market. You have to detach the entire upper frame and *carefully* detach it from a micro-thin SATA flexcable. It's a big hassle, like every other non-modular part in the computer.[quote]

Depends on which model, the MacBooks let you just slide the drive out, the new MacBook Pros easily give access to the drive through removing the bottom part of the case.

Saying that you are describing the old MacBookPro design, which you are right was harder. But wait, that kept the size and weight down and the laptop doesnt bend and flex like its plastic counterparts with lots of removable bays, which gives into structural instability.

I would rather have a solid laptop, nicely constructed and light as I may only need to replace the drive once in its life but I will be using it every day.

[quote=Kojio said,]Don't even get me started on the lack of Mac compatible video cards or the exorbitantly expensive ECC memory they put into their desktop models.[/quote]

Just buy the memory separate like everybody else does (call yourself an technician?). Theres usually a few options for cards, which work, Macs are not targeted at gamers and any professional can either choose from a few consumer grade cards or expensive dedicated cards costing into the thousands.

You do realize PCs dont have that many cards, its the same chips put on different cards by different end manufacturers. ATI and NVIDIA both produce the equivalent expansion cards for the Mac, its just other manufactures dont brand a card and sell it to the mac market.


[quote=Kojio said,]Never, ever should the term "Apple" and flexibility be used in the same sentence. You have to damn-near reprogram an iPod just to use it with other music software, or jailbreak an iPhone just to get it working with competing software that is BANNED from the Apple store. Unless you are talking about the fruit, I never want to hear that comparison again. "It just works" is the reason I throw their white wall-wort Airport adapters in the trash and plug in a Linksys router instead, because those damn things actually work.[/quote]

Why would I want to use an iPod with other music software, iTunes manages to copy music across just fine? What about the Zune, doesnt that need something similar. Other software wouldnt be able to update the firmware etc...

I used to jailbreak my iPhone but know the app store has 55,000+ apps I dont really see the need, theses nothing else I need. (dont need a snes emulator (obviously illegal) or the ability to run apache from my phone, or ssh or whatever...

Never had trouble with any Airport adaptor, maybe its you. At work, at home never an issue and we have XP, Vista and Macs at home and they all connect just peachy.


Seems to me the problem is you, you cant use an Airport router, you dont know how to find out what memory a mac is using, you think flexibility is just ignoring other OS's / Applications if it cant be done on windows, you think there are lots of different graphics cards out there for PCs rather than manufactures rebranding NVIDIA / ATi chipsets.

Usually I don't respond to Apple shills, but if you are going to lie and twist my words, at least learn how to use forum code correctly.

Having to buy a second operating system in order to run unsupported software is a crutch. You can cry VMware until your head turns blue, it's a hidden costs and is not a "feature." I know that's hard to understand as an apple fanboy, since you're always forced to pay for features anyhow.

I already know you don't believe "800mhz" is enough competent information to replace computer memory, so I won't call you an idiot. You are just a shill. I've yet to see pre-installed mac memory come with a sticker. I know there's a sticker under the battery that detailed the amount of memory, and that's about it. They don't even throw you a possible revision number. You *have* to hunt down the rest of the main board's specification's. It's stupid to try and gamble with incorrect parts otherwise.

I haven't seen a MBP model that opens the drive bay through the bottom; it's usually the top that comes off. It has nothing to do with sturdy design. MBP uses a thinly-cast aluminum shell that scratches easy, dents permanently, and is held together by razor-thin aluminum tabs that snap off in a heavy breeze. Plastics are flexible, and have higher durability. I've only seen shills compare the aluminum case against a cheap plastic one, and never a sturdy plastic design like the thinkpad. Even the Panasonic tough books are made out of plastic, and they withstand all kinds of ungodly punishment.

Oh, here's another shill statement from you "Buy separate memory like everyone else." Please find me 2GB of PC-2700 ECC memory rated for a G4, for $30. Don't worry, I'll wait.

Everything else out of your mouth is shill statements. Just google "apple airport widespread problems" if you feel like testing your Apple faith. Airports are notorious for being unreliable trash.

Besides, I can run OSX on my PC. It's called intel architecture, which Apple came crawling back to after their PowerPC exclusivity burned them. I choose not to run OSX because there's no point. Windows already has the same software as mac, and thousands of more choices to choose from. Unlike you, I don't have to dual-boot in order to enjoy such pleasures as Picasa, Gimp, Paint.Net, Audacity, Handbrake, Teamviewer, OpenVPN, Alcohol, Daemon Tools, Thunderbird, etcetera. There's an open-source solution for everything, and it all works within a "single" operating system. No extra costs for an additional license or dual-boot software.

iTunes is terrible. I like Winamp and Foobar better, and hacked my iPod with Rockbox and a custom orange LCD interface. iTunes can blow me.

Was at work and missed my mistake, so obviously that makes you correct. Dont usually respond my arse, your the one who came into a friendly discussion and started calling people names, you've obviously got a chip on your shoulder.

Firstly its not up to Apple, Microsoft or any other OS maker to ensure that all necessary software is available on their OS and there are many examples where only one OS has the industry standard application, thats not always the case for sure. But when you work in an industry where files, video, music, graphics, vector and applications all come together from many different sources and platforms it it sensible to have a wide range of support and not just demand everything.

But still you dont seem to understand this, from your comment about using Gimp, Paint.net etc...

Gimp, can use on OSX, but why would I its not production ready. You try opening a layered PSD file, where every layer has effects, filters and masks applied. You cant, you need the right software for the job, which is my argument. Not which manufactured you love best, and its obvious you are a windows fan boy. I use both, you refuse to even learn how the other one works.

Picasa, its on OSX as well, but why would I want to use that, its very limited and not for business. I might as well use iPhoto, but wait, I use this for business and I need something a little more solid. Aperture works nice, Adobe provides similar tools and there are alot better professional options out there. Red eye removal and limited RAW support are the least of my worries.

Alcohol > Get toast on OSX or Burn

Open VPN > on OSX

Audacity > on OSX

Daemon Tools > Erm OSX or Toast will let you make disk images, its how the OS works and its a lot better integrated than Windows.

Thunderbird > On OSX

Many of these open source solutions are on a Mac and there are many on a mac, ported from unix / linux that you cant get on a PC. You living in a OSX hating bubble, your lack of knowledge shows you no not what you talk about. Heard of Unix, X11, open office, look on http://www.opensourcemac.org/ or http://www.macupdate.com/ to get an idea of your ignorance.

The airport issues were not necessarily caused by Apple as such, the routers were supporting an unofficial implementation of a standard which was yet to be finalized, many manufactures had similar problems. Firmware updates have fix that across the whole industry, not just for Apple so get off your high horse. Ive had similar trouble with netgear routers which they never fixed and they had to be flashed with opensouce firmware to get rid of the well documented problems.

There is a whole world out there and do you think everybody's airport doesn't work, how the hell am I on the internet now? Magic?

Where can you find 2GB of PC2700 ECC memory for $30, for any board, for any PC. now I know you are talking foolish talk, you are looking at over $100 for 2 x 1GB ECC memory.

Otherwise for a mac, if you are that incompetent, go to Crucial or Kingston like I said before, pic your machine from the list (it will walk you through) and confirm with the "about this mac" like I said earlier. Otherwise just buy the same memory as would would for a PC, its all the same if you buy decent quality memory as those manufactures also test their memory in Macs.

As your comments about mac memory and drives (from previous posts), come on, they for one dont print apple logos on the internal hardware. Open up a G4 and the drive will say Seagate and look exactly like a PC one (as it is). Memory has been the same in all the machines ive ever seen but the upgrade path is as easy as a PC. You just need to know what you are doing.

The Aluminum is a personal preferences I suppose and yes ive seen dints in those laptops and ive seen big plastic cracks in other manufactures machines. It takes quite a lot of force to do either. Yeah if you want a tough book buy a tough book but most people want something that feels nice to use and as far as im concerned the aluminum ones and especially the new models have been very nice to use. And they dont feel like cheep cr*p.

Anyway people were having a rational discussion, you came on here calling me a fool and a shill while demonstrating your own incompetence, ignorance and your windows fan boy attitude.

Like as said above I use both, the right tool for the right job.

You use gimp and thats how I see you.

I know, because most people don't want to save money and be able to see what they're doing.

Like if Apple had many versions of Mac OS to choose from.

Real people (like these actors on the ads) tend to choose whatever fits them, not whatever it is out there being offered. Microsoft is just taking real advantage of this, which is the reality...