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Ballmer: Apple's Mac growth is a "rounding error"

Sam Symons   on 31 July 2009 - 22:51 · 105 comments & 11157 views

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Microsoft's CEO Steve Ballmer is a man who's not afraid to talk down his competitors. When Apple initially released the iPhone, he stated that it had no chance of gaining a significant market share. Now, when speaking to a group of market analysts, he has said that the growth that the Cupertino company is seeing with their Mac product range can be attributed to a rounding error.

Whilst he was at the 2009 Financial Analyst Meeting, Ballmer said, "Share versus Apple, you know, we think we may have ticked up a little tick, but when you get right down to it, it's a rounding error. Apple's share change, plus or minus from ours, they took a little share a couple quarters, we took share back a couple quarters." He then added, "Apple's share globally cost us nothing. Now, hopefully, we will take share back from Apple, but you know, Apple still only sells about 10 million PCs, so it is a limited opportunity." Ballmer noticed that, in the crowd of the meeting, there was a large proportion of Apple computers. He noted, "I can see the Apple logos versus the PC logos. So we have more work to do, more work to do. Our share is lower in this audience than the average audience. But don't hide it. I've already counted them. I have been doing that since we started talking."

He did note that Apple is known for their higher quality machines that PCs usually are, saying, "At least when Apple attacks us, the primary attack that comes from Apple is, 'Hey, at the end of the day, we have the coolest hardware.' When you see the hardware, the PC designs that will come out this Christmas with Windows 7, I think that conventional wisdom can begin to really change. There is some really amazing, amazing work. So it is possible to get great hardware innovation, even when hardware and software comes from separate companies."

Ballmer describes Windows as falling in between OS X and Linux to get what consumers want; a product that's not too cheap, and not too expensive. About Apple, in this regard, he said, "We do not, say, like Apple, believe in low volume, very high prices, very -- Apple is a great company, does a fine job. But their model says high margin, high quality, high price. That's kind of how they come to market. We say we want big market share. But with big market share, you take a lower price."

Lastly, AppleInsider added on Ballmer's thoughts about Microsoft's 'Laptop Hunters' advertisement range, saying, "And are the ads working? In an independent survey, we asked 18- to 24-year-olds—or they were asked, 'Who offers the best value, Apple or Microsoft?' You can kind of see Apple was comfortably ahead despite the fact they — well, despite whatever the facts are. Our ads started in April of '09. You can see kind of what the perception changes have been so far."

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(15 replies) #1 +AltecXP on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:07
I miss Bill Gates.....
#1.1 MistaT40 on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:12
So do I
#1.2 The Real Alex on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:24
Same here
#1.3 dagrimdialer619 on 01 Aug 2009 - 00:32
Ballmer's a nutball.

Last edited by dagrimdialer619 on 01 Aug 2009 - 00:45
#1.4 mindscape on 01 Aug 2009 - 02:06
Ballmer's like Jobs.
#1.5 REM2000 on 01 Aug 2009 - 14:27
mindscape said,
Ballmer's like Jobs.


Ballmer is nothing like jobs, jobs brought a company from nothing, ballmers driving microsoft to nothing. The sooner that nutjob is out of Microsoft, the sooner Microsoft pushes forward. They have excellent talent like steve from the windows and office team, yet this idiot keeps sticking his foot in his mouth, reminds me of prince phillip from the royal family in the uk. Everytime he goes out the royal family are scared he's gonna say something stupid.
#1.6 CarlosMiguel on 01 Aug 2009 - 14:29
mindscape said,
Ballmer's like Jobs.


Exactly! Both are BALD
#1.7 LoveThePenguin on 01 Aug 2009 - 14:39
AltecXP said,
I miss Bill Gates.....

I say keep balmer so he can destroy the whole company. What a day that will be when MS don't exist. Hmm, is that what we would call an utopia?
#1.8 LoveThePenguin on 01 Aug 2009 - 14:40
mindscape said,
Ballmer's like Jobs.

Except that he fails at everything he does.
#1.9 Ozood on 01 Aug 2009 - 15:26
LoveThePenguin said,
I say keep balmer so he can destroy the whole company. What a day that will be when MS don't exist. Hmm, is that what we would call an utopia?


That's so retarded. You really hate a company that damn much that you hope it doesn't exist? For what insane reason? That you just dont like their products?

Maybe the day Apple goes out of business will be the day all of their users drown themselves in the ocean, and we can all live in peace.
#1.10 mikefarinha on 01 Aug 2009 - 18:46
LoveThePenguin said,
Except that he fails at everything he does.


Its so fun to watch Linux users hate on Microsoft. Linux is like the fly on a cows butt looking for fresh droppings; and every time the cow wiggles it's tail the fly thinks some sort of seismic shift is occurring.

Run along now and start working on some OSS code. The freetards need you!
#1.11 toadeater on 01 Aug 2009 - 19:32
Ozood said,
Maybe the day Apple goes out of business will be the day all of their users drown themselves in the ocean, and we can all live in peace.


Maybe Linux will drive them both out of business, so there won't be any selfish monopolies misleading users and controlling development.
#1.12 sanke1 on 01 Aug 2009 - 20:02
The Real Alex said,
Same here


I like flamebait articles like this. Please continue to read the flamewar that follows
#1.13 +Smigit on 02 Aug 2009 - 02:54
Ballmers being the CEO for close to a decade now. Love him or hate him, MS is still doing fine and in many people's eyes are probably on a rise if anything.

Ballmer can't and won't kill MS...it'll take a lot more employees and mistakes by committee to see that happen.
#1.14 mmck on 03 Aug 2009 - 07:24
REM2000 said,
They have excellent talent like steve from the windows and office team, yet this idiot keeps sticking his foot in his mouth, reminds me of prince phillip from the royal family in the uk. Everytime he goes out the royal family are scared he's gonna say something stupid.


Everytime he goes out the royal family are scared the press will blow something out of proportion... maybe balmer, jobs, and philip are the same.

(Most things Phillip says are casual jokes that are thin to the line but nothing you wouldn't expect to hear daily in jokes and from comedians or anyone else, the only difference is people expect him to be a old git and have no fun. Calling the soviet union b*****ds for murdering half his family, joking about scottish boozing, and saying the problem with brazil is brazillians are all blown out of context and suggested he made press releases - when infact it was just mild conversation and 'banter'.
#1.15 Solid Knight on 04 Aug 2009 - 01:21
toadeater said,
Maybe Linux will drive them both out of business, so there won't be any selfish monopolies misleading users and controlling development.


Let's replace corporations with selfish developers who have no obligation or interest in working for the community. It's the Linux way.
(1 reply) #2 guruparan on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:16
So..should we expect something very nice from the manufactures like Dell,HP,Sony,Acer etc with the Cool Laptop/Desktops alike mac during this christmas season..Thats cool!!
#2.1 cakesy on 01 Aug 2009 - 07:08
We wish, they are just pumping out the cheapest crap, most of their laptops aren't even designed in the USA, they are designed in taiwan and china, and they all look the same. Dell came out with a decent looking laptop, and then charged the earth for it, more than a Macbook Air.
(1 reply) #3 tiagosilva29 on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:16
They need to use BigDecimal instead of float/double.
#3.1 Sam Symons on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:55
tiagosilva29 said,
They need to use BigDecimal instead of float/double.

:p
(21 replies) #4 cabron on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:17
Ballmer describes Windows as falling in between OS X and Linux to get what consumers want; a product that's not too cheap, and not too expensive.

Ballmer is talking bull****, Windows is the most expensive DESKTOP os, the next OS from Apple will be price at just $29 dollars, Microsoft could do the same, after Vista failure, they could give to the current Vista customers an incentive like that. Microsoft is going down like hell.
#4.1 Phemo on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:20
While most of what you say is true to some degree, this did amuse me:

cabron said,
Microsoft is going down like hell.


Not any time soon they're not.
#4.2 Ravemaster on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:23
Oh dear, the flames start again...
Btw, Apple's OS is not $29. You missed the point where Apple's OS requires you to buy their hardware. Windows lets you choose the hardware you put in it.
That's all I will input on this matter.
#4.3 The Real Alex on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:25
I thought it was only going to be 29 dollars if you have a Intel Mac and it came with leopard but if you have intel Mac with Tiger included don't you have to pay full price?
#4.4 cabron on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:28
The Real Alex said,
I thought it was only going to be 29 dollars if you have a Intel Mac and it came with leopard but if you have intel Mac with Tiger included don't you have to pay full price?


Nope, $29 dollars only, not upgrade, full price.
#4.5 Beastage on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:35
CNET already showed that only about 55% of Mac users are eligible for the osx snow leopard upgrade for 29usd and lets not forget the apple tax, since OSX is binded to an overpriced PC.

http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-quarterly-200803-200902 , look at OSX market share, it is a joke.

The only service that showed significant improvement for OSX are marketshare.hitslink.com and the message on their site for June is Site Note: Browser and O/S June stats under review We are investigating some significant variations in browser and operating system statistics. The reports will not be available until we complete our review. --- gee I wonder what variations.

I think Microsoft makes alot of money now selling windows and office to macs.
#4.6 ImWatchingYou on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:57
cabron said,
Nope, $29 dollars only, not upgrade, full price.


Um no, you're wrong. It's $29 ONLY for those upgrading from Leopard. Everyone else, such as Tiger users, will be paying full price, which I don't think has been formally announced. I've heard both $149 and $199 mentioned, we'll see near launch day.
#4.7 lordcanti86 on 01 Aug 2009 - 00:39
Snow Leopard: $29 Upgrade*

*some restrictions may apply
#4.8 .Neo on 01 Aug 2009 - 00:49
lordcanti86 said,
Snow Leopard: $29 Upgrade*

*some restrictions may apply

If you have Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard it will cost you $29. If you're still on Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger you'll have to play the full price. Apple explained this in their keynote and didn't make a secret out of it. Obviously you won't get the full OS + all of Leopard features for $29 if you're running Tiger.
#4.9 Lechio on 01 Aug 2009 - 08:19
It would be nice if people with Vista Ultimate (or whatever the "top" Vista version is) could upgrade for $29 to Windows 7. One good thing about MacOSX is that you get one OS, with Windows you get segregation.
#4.10 andrewbares on 01 Aug 2009 - 08:28
Lechio said,
It would be nice if people with Vista Ultimate (or whatever the "top" Vista version is) could upgrade for $29 to Windows 7. One good thing about MacOSX is that you get one OS, with Windows you get segregation.


But I don't wanna pay extra for features that I'll never use. Options are wayyy better than none.
#4.11 Lechio on 01 Aug 2009 - 08:34
andrewbares said,
But I don't wanna pay extra for features that I'll never use. Options are wayyy better than none.

If it's OK for you to run a mangled OS, then Windows "Starter Edition" is right for you.
#4.12 +Kirkburn on 01 Aug 2009 - 12:09
Lechio said,
If it's OK for you to run a mangled OS, then Windows "Starter Edition" is right for you.

By whose definition "mangled"? The features in Ultimate are completely pointless for 99% of users. The other 1% can get Ultimate, and pay more.
#4.13 Lechio on 01 Aug 2009 - 12:22
Kirkburn said,
By whose definition "mangled"? The features in Ultimate are completely pointless for 99% of users. The other 1% can get Ultimate, and pay more.

Depends on whose definition of "completely pointless" features.
So, going by your opinion, Ultimate versions of Windows are completely useless?

By the way, user management is not a pointless feature (a very important one as a matter a fact), yet some versions of Windows do not include such a feature... Mangled OS.
#4.14 LoveThePenguin on 01 Aug 2009 - 14:37
Phemo said,
Not any time soon they're not.

With balmer at the helm they're sinking like a boulder, and I'm enjoying every minute of it
#4.15 MioTheGreat on 01 Aug 2009 - 15:00
Lechio said,
Depends on whose definition of "completely pointless" features.
So, going by your opinion, Ultimate versions of Windows are completely useless?


What you just did is called a straw man.
#4.16 Ledgem on 01 Aug 2009 - 15:14
andrewbares said,
But I don't wanna pay extra for features that I'll never use. Options are wayyy better than none.

The biggest thing that bugs me about the decision to stratify Windows across so many different versions is that I don't really know whether I'll use some of those features or not. In many cases a feaure is completely new, and I can't get a good sense of just how useful it'd be from the description. You find out how useful it is to you by actually trying it out.

In all honesty, if I had to choose between spending tons of money on a version of Windows with all sorts of new technologies vs. spending on a version that I knew I'd use the feature set of, and Microsoft had been pulling stunts like this from way back when, then I'd probably be using a version of Windows with the Windows 95 feature set.

In light of Microsoft's efforts to make buying Windows as diverse as a fruit stand, Apple gets major credit in my book for having only two versions of their OS: desktop and server. It's very clear which version is aimed at who.
#4.17 mikefarinha on 01 Aug 2009 - 18:38
cabron said,
Nope, $29 dollars only, not upgrade, full price.


Hey buddy,

Until you can purchase an Apple Mac without OSX every retail copy of OSX is an upgrade since the initial OS install is already factored into the cost of the OS.
#4.18 Atlonite on 01 Aug 2009 - 23:43
um no the next service pack from apple wil be 29 bucks windows7 is an actual full OS not an update thankyou and MS don't charge for service packs
#4.19 +Smigit on 02 Aug 2009 - 04:12
ack. I don't use a Mac but it's far from a service pack
#4.20 dyn on 02 Aug 2009 - 14:32
Beastage said,
CNET already showed that only about 55% of Mac users are eligible for the osx snow leopard upgrade for 29usd and lets not forget the apple tax, since OSX is binded to an overpriced PC.

What Cnet showed in that article is that they do a very very poor job at getting their facts straight. There really isn't much in that article that is true. That both goes for the Windows and the OS X story. The biggest thing most people tend to forget are the OEM licenses Windows has and which are used by OEM's like HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc. Those licenses are nearly the same as the license Apple uses apart from the fact that Windows OEM is tied to a specific computer and the Apple is tied to any Apple computer. With an OEM machine you always pay for things as the hardware, the software, the service and the fact they put everything in a nice little package. What people also don't know are the prices of Lenovo and Sony computers, they are a bit higher than Apple computers. That and all of the mistakes regarding the upgrade to Windows 7 and MacOS X Snow Leopard make that Cnet article a big piece of garbage you really ought to ignore.

I think Microsoft makes alot of money now selling windows and office to macs.

Most people buy a Mac because of OS X, not because you can run Windows on it. Apart from that Microsoft has been selling Office for the Mac for years now. So all in all they won't be making a lot of money because of that. They might make a bit more money selling Windows to Mac people that need it but the question remains if those people wouldn't have done exactly the same if they had a Windows machine.

BTW: marketshare is something that is quite hard to measure. A small or a big marketshare does not mean it's a good or a bad thing. It is what it is and you need a lot more than that to draw any conclusions. Did you see the difference in marketshare between Vista and XP on that link?

lordcanti86 said,
Snow Leopard: $29 Upgrade*

*some restrictions may apply

Restrictions being it won't run on the old PowerPC architecture anymore. Leopard is the last of the OS X versions that did. The same way Windows NT 4.0 was the last Windows to run on the Alpha architecture.

mikefarinha said,
Hey buddy,

Until you can purchase an Apple Mac without OSX every retail copy of OSX is an upgrade since the initial OS install is already factored into the cost of the OS.

There's a difference between the license and what you can do technically. The license is an upgrade license but technically you have a full version so you can either upgrade the existing system or do a clean install. I think that's what he meant to say.
#4.21 GreyWolfSC on 03 Aug 2009 - 00:19
How is it the most expensive OS? OSX is $129 at Apple's online store. Windows Vista Home Premium upgrade at Microsoft's online store is... $129.

I list the upgrade version of Windows because it's essentially the same thing. The full version of OSX won't do you a lot of good without a Mac, and the upgrade version of Vista won't be too useful without a previous copy of Windows.
(4 replies) #5 Cyranthus on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:20
yeah, but mac's are the most expensive computers... so that balances out, right? lol

(meant to be a reply to cabron's post)
#5.1 LoveThePenguin on 01 Aug 2009 - 14:44
Cyranthus said,
yeah, but mac's are the most expensive computers... so that balances out, right? lol

Not if you include all the software you have to buy to equal the functionality of a mac right out of the box. Not only that but OEM PC components are usually junk. I'd rather build my own or buy a mac.
#5.2 Atlonite on 01 Aug 2009 - 23:46
erm we all know you get what you pay for when buying a pc but that rule seems not to apply to macs where you buy less and pay more
#5.3 +Smigit on 02 Aug 2009 - 04:14
LoveThePenguin said,
Not if you include all the software you have to buy to equal the functionality of a mac right out of the box.
Like what exactly? I'm pretty damn sure the freeware scene for windows is more than adequate to give you more or less or that functionality and where you can't get a freeware equivalent it probably means it's something the mass market doesn't really want to use anyway.
#5.4 GreyWolfSC on 03 Aug 2009 - 00:20
LoveThePenguin said,
Not if you include all the software you have to buy to equal the functionality of a mac right out of the box. Not only that but OEM PC components are usually junk. I'd rather build my own or buy a mac.


Macs parts are built by OEMs. same components. Only a few things like the case and motherboard are custom-designed and usually only to fit the form factor.
(8 replies) #6 bob_c_b on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:25
Ballmer is just sad now, good luck MS, you are going to need it with the monkey at the helm.
#6.1 Beastage on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:35
But he is right.
#6.2 .Neo on 01 Aug 2009 - 00:51
Beastage said,
But he is right.

Sure, just as right as when he said the iPhone has no chance of gaining a significant market share.
#6.3 bob_c_b on 01 Aug 2009 - 01:06
Beastage said,
But he is right.


About what? While MS lost sales last quarter and took their first major hit in growth, Apple had a record non-holiday quarter. If price is the main concern why is Apple making gains in a down economy?
#6.4 Beastage on 01 Aug 2009 - 08:41
Dude it doesnt matter how many Macs Apple sales if people install Windows on them.

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-...re.aspx?qprid=8

Look at that, they fixed their stats and osx are back below 5%
#6.5 +Kirkburn on 01 Aug 2009 - 12:10
bob_c_b said,
Ballmer is just sad now, good luck MS, you are going to need it with the monkey at the helm.

You know he's not new, right?
#6.6 LoveThePenguin on 01 Aug 2009 - 14:45
bob_c_b said,
Ballmer is just sad now, good luck MS, you are going to need it with the monkey at the helm.

But wasn't gates in charge when vista was developed? That kind of negates that point no?
#6.7 Edwin Allan on 01 Aug 2009 - 16:57
Beastage said,
Dude it doesnt matter how many Macs Apple sales if people install Windows on them.

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-...re.aspx?qprid=8

Look at that, they fixed their stats and osx are back below 5%


Yeah, well I'm not about to trust such an "windows looking" website!
#6.8 +Smigit on 02 Aug 2009 - 04:23
bob_c_b said,
Ballmer is just sad now, good luck MS, you are going to need it with the monkey at the helm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Ballmer#Microsoft_career
Because he only just joined MS yesterday...

And they may have taken a hit, pretty sure Apple has taken hits as a company or at least in some of it's markets this year also. Not forgetting both companies have major products around the corner too. MS is hardly sinking.
(1 reply) #7 Jugalator on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:49
The only reason he even cares to comment on this is that he feels a need for it, though, and that should be worth thinking about alone. Microsoft feel the pressure from Apple the more they keep gaining market share, and that's that. If they truly didn't care, they wouldn't even go out in press about these "pointless" matters.

Having said that, Jobs' truth bending is about as annoying as Ballmer's condescending attitude.

Finally...
When you see the hardware, the PC designs that will come out this Christmas with Windows 7, I think that conventional wisdom can begin to really change. There is some really amazing, amazing work.

I've heard this many times before, but it has rarely materialized. If true, they sure are keeping the hardware designs under wrap well. I hope I'm wrong though.
#7.1 Ozood on 01 Aug 2009 - 14:19
Uh Apple's market share has actually fallen, and they have been bumped out of, I think, the 4th place spot by a PC maker.



(3 replies) #8 PsychoDoughBoy on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:52
"speak bad"? That's the worst sentence I've read for weeks.
#8.1 ImWatchingYou on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:59
PsychoDoughBoy said,
"speak bad"? That's the worst sentence I've read for weeks.


Agreed
#8.2 Joshie on 01 Aug 2009 - 02:57
Ah, so you mentally block out YouTube comments, too, eh?
#8.3 LoveThePenguin on 01 Aug 2009 - 14:49
PsychoDoughBoy said,
"speak bad"? That's the worst sentence I've read for weeks.

Just implictly add a '-ly' inflection to 'bad' then you have grammaticality. And personally I've seen much worse.
(1 reply) #9 Pam14160 on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:55
I really didn't read anything bad in the article in fact it seemed at a couple of points Ballmer gave Apple some kudos. I guess it's just the way each reader ascertains what the author was attempting to part take to the audience. And, it depends on which way the individual reader is leaning, thus if you are a Mac users you see only bad things, and if you are a Windows user you see the opposite. Of course if you are a user of Linux you are setting back and laughing at the other two sides.

Ain't Computing Fun!
#9.1 ImWatchingYou on 01 Aug 2009 - 00:00
Pam14160 said,
I really didn't read anything bad in the article in fact it seemed at a couple of points Ballmer gave Apple some kudos. I guess it's just the way each reader ascertains what the author was attempting to part take to the audience. And, it depends on which way the individual reader is leaning, thus if you are a Mac users you see only bad things, and if you are a Windows user you see the opposite. Of course if you are a user of Linux you are setting back and laughing at the other two sides.

Ain't Computing Fun!


I think it's the fact that he can't put together an intelligent, coherent sentence. I'm not saying his point is wrong, just that he sounds partially retarded.
(13 replies) #10 shockz on 31 Jul 2009 - 23:56
Ballmer makes me want to buy a mac.
#10.1 kazuyette on 01 Aug 2009 - 00:01
I miss Bill Gates but I'll never buy a Mac because of what Ballmer said.
#10.2 Ricmacas on 01 Aug 2009 - 00:27
kazuyette said,
I miss Bill Gates but I'll never buy a Mac because of what Ballmer said.


I have done so many things I had promiss myself I wouldnt do.

"This is the last time I'll talk to you!"
^^ Yeah, right!
#10.3 dagrimdialer619 on 01 Aug 2009 - 00:38
shockz said,
Ballmer makes me want to buy a mac.


+1. Wait... I'm sitting at one now . I guess the least this makes me want to do is restart the computer to use OS X instead of Windows.


edit: and as I was raised from both camps, in my honest opinion "Ballmer describes Windows as falling in between OS X and Linux" is incorrect. If anything OS X falls between Windows and Linux. Quite literally, OS X is based around linux.

Windows is something completely different, it is off the other end of the scale because it is useful for something. It does not fit in between OS X and Linux.

I want Uncle Bill back

Last edited by dagrimdialer619 on 01 Aug 2009 - 00:48
#10.4 PsychoDoughBoy on 01 Aug 2009 - 02:05
dagrimdialer619 said,
Quite literally, OS X is based around linux.


Except that it's not. It's based around Darwin, which was derived from BSD and NEXTSTEP.
#10.5 dagrimdialer619 on 01 Aug 2009 - 05:02
PsychoDoughBoy said,
Except that it's not. It's based around Darwin, which was derived from BSD and NEXTSTEP.


ok sorry, I got the wrong information.
#10.6 cakesy on 01 Aug 2009 - 07:12
dagrimdialer619 said,
ok sorry, I got the wrong information.


Don't let that stop you from speaking with absolute conviction. Don't let the facts get in the way now, that just slows down the thought processes :0 Either way, Linux or BSD are very robust OS, which just lack the ease of use of Windows or Mac.
#10.7 Lechio on 01 Aug 2009 - 08:27
cakesy said,
Either way, Linux or BSD are very robust OS, which just lack the ease of use of Windows or Mac.

I absolutely disagree. A Linux system can be just as easy (or even easier) to use as a Windows system or even a MacOSX system. It only needs to be setup correctly, from there it's just point and click.
#10.8 +Kirkburn on 01 Aug 2009 - 12:14
dagrimdialer619 said,
edit: and as I was raised from both camps, in my honest opinion "Ballmer describes Windows as falling in between OS X and Linux" is incorrect. If anything OS X falls between Windows and Linux. Quite literally, OS X is based around linux.

He wasn't talking about the codebase when he made that statement, anyway.
#10.9 powerade01 on 01 Aug 2009 - 12:57
PsychoDoughBoy said,
Except that it's not. It's based around Darwin, which was derived from BSD and NEXTSTEP.


And BSD is based on Unix
Linux is based on Unix.


Hmmm.....Do we see a connection?
#10.10 vetmarkjensen on 01 Aug 2009 - 13:34
powerade01 said,
And BSD is based on Unix
Linux is based on Unix.


Hmmm.....Do we see a connection?

Linux was based on Minix. Except it wasn't a microkernel, so even then it wasn't a copy, as that is a significant difference.

And none of that changes the ludicrous statement that OSX is based on Linux.

Like this:
Euros are based on money.
US Dollars are based on money.
therefore, Euros are based on US Dollars! ?
#10.11 LoveThePenguin on 01 Aug 2009 - 15:03
Why would anyone trust this guy seriously? I'd rather buy a mac too. Both OS X and Ubuntu are infinitely superior to vista, doesn't everyone know this?
#10.12 dagrimdialer619 on 02 Aug 2009 - 02:45
powerade01 said,
And BSD is based on Unix


I was actually originally going to say Unix.

LoveThePenguin said,
Why would anyone trust this guy seriously? I'd rather buy a mac too. Both OS X and Ubuntu are infinitely superior to vista, doesn't everyone know this?


OS X most certainly is a far superior operating system to Windows in many regards. People just need to get their heads around how to do things.


One last word,

Ballmer is nuts. Microsoft needs a forward thinker with charisma.
#10.13 cerealfreak on 02 Aug 2009 - 15:40
markjensen said,
powerade01 said,
And BSD is based on Unix
Linux is based on Unix.


Hmmm.....Do we see a connection?

Linux was based on Minix. Except it wasn't a microkernel, so even then it wasn't a copy, as that is a significant difference.

And none of that changes the ludicrous statement that OSX is based on Linux.

Like this:
Euros are based on money.
US Dollars are based on money.
therefore, Euros are based on US Dollars! ?


PMSL hahaha except he's right BSD core, was based on *nix, it's all relative anyway, personal and professional choices are utilised when making your decision over any OS and system, notto mention cost. those of us who spend every single business hour locked into the monotiny (sp??) that is the major business world use Windows, but then we generally use *nix on the servers as opposed to Windows Server, and then our graphics/media teams use Macs.

I'm a PC either way, gee I make myself laugh hahahaha
#11 lordcanti86 on 01 Aug 2009 - 00:40
I generally like MS products, but Ballmer just tries to make himself look retarded. Thank god Ray Ozzie actually runs the company.
(1 reply) #12 +Nightwind Hawk on 01 Aug 2009 - 00:44
It's funny how Apple's success relies on their CEO yet Microsoft somehow survives with a guy like this in charge...
#12.1 bob_c_b on 01 Aug 2009 - 01:02
Nightwind Hawk said,
It's funny how Apple's success relies on their CEO yet Microsoft somehow survives with a guy like this in charge...


I think you over-rate Steve's importance to many. Yes, to active Apple supporters and some investors Steve is the voice/vision of the company, but I'll bet just as many don't have a clue.
(3 replies) #13 armanderli on 01 Aug 2009 - 00:45
The truth is with economy explosion Apple is not really gonna catch up in a near future.Some surveys show that 90% of people in France for example are usng a PC......so Microsoft should not even bother
#13.1 bob_c_b on 01 Aug 2009 - 01:04
armanderli said,
The truth is with economy explosion Apple is not really gonna catch up in a near future.Some surveys show that 90% of people in France for example are usng a PC......so Microsoft should not even bother


No one thinks Apple is going to take over the marketplace, but they are denting MS marketshare and that cost them money.
#13.2 +Kirkburn on 01 Aug 2009 - 12:16
armanderli said,
The truth is with economy explosion Apple is not really gonna catch up in a near future.Some surveys show that 90% of people in France for example are usng a PC......so Microsoft should not even bother

You know 90% is below the stats for the rest of the world? Your stat would need to be above 95% to mean something special.

(only 90% PC users would mean Apple is doing pretty damn well in France.)
#13.3 LoveThePenguin on 01 Aug 2009 - 15:07
armanderli said,
The truth is with economy explosion Apple is not really gonna catch up in a near future.Some surveys show that 90% of people in France for example are usng a PC......so Microsoft should not even bother

That doesn't mean 90% are using MS software. In fact recently most of france's government moved to GNU/Linux. And remember MS doesn't dominate in europe the way it does in the US.

Of course that all assumes you didn't make that 90% number up. What survey are you talking about exactly?
#14 +CrimsonRedMk on 01 Aug 2009 - 03:44
At least make up something smug like Apple, not a rounding error...
#15 StealthMode on 01 Aug 2009 - 03:48
LOL He's entertaining. Made some interesting points. Fun read, now what? I'm bored now...
(4 replies) #16 +warwagon on 01 Aug 2009 - 04:50
Well he's not totally wrong. I mean Apple does count all the iphone users as someone who uses OSX
#16.1 cakesy on 01 Aug 2009 - 07:14
warwagon said,
Well he's not totally wrong. I mean Apple does count all the iphone users as someone who uses OSX


What are you talking about, nowhere has Apple said this. Apple talks quite distinctly about how many Laptops they sell, and how many phones. They don't keep it secret like Microsoft does over how many Windows versions it sells, or how many people buy Vista and then upgrade to XP.
#16.2 powerade01 on 01 Aug 2009 - 12:59
warwagon said,
Well he's not totally wrong. I mean Apple does count all the iphone users as someone who uses OSX


Although it would not surprise me....

Source?
#16.3 Mav Phoenix on 01 Aug 2009 - 13:09
I think in the latest keynote, they define the iPhone/iPod Touch OS as OS X, then show a chart of active OS X users.
#16.4 dhan on 01 Aug 2009 - 14:26
cakesy said,
What are you talking about, nowhere has Apple said this. Apple talks quite distinctly about how many Laptops they sell, and how many phones. They don't keep it secret like Microsoft does over how many Windows versions it sells, or how many people buy Vista and then upgrade to XP.

Phil Schiller counter OSX = Mac + iPhone (without splitting numbers) during MW'09...so you are wrong.
(1 reply) #17 ricknl on 01 Aug 2009 - 13:10
During that speech Ballmer says, "Don't hide your Apple computers, as long as you have Microsoft Office installed on them"
#17.1 dagrimdialer619 on 02 Aug 2009 - 02:53
what?
#18 Binary on 01 Aug 2009 - 13:45
Does he always babble incoherently?

My head almost exploded reading this article.
(2 replies) #19 Ozood on 01 Aug 2009 - 14:24
Ballmer noticed that, in the crowd of the meeting, there was a large proportion of Apple computers
. He noted, "I can see the Apple logos versus the PC logos. So we have more work to do, more work to do. Our share is lower in this audience than the average audience."

Yes, amongst the blogger, Tech journalist community, they have a real problem. It's impossible to get people that are using OSX to write anything about you that isn't completely slanted and biased.

How many times have Apple reps trashed competitors only to have the same blogging community that rips everything Ballmer says, completely ignore, or downplay their words? And what Ballmer said isnt in the same league of putting "Snow Leopard" on a screen and crossing out snow, and saying it's the same thing.

You know like Apple did just a few weeks ago.

And when is the last time Apple praised anything from their competitors?
#19.1 LoveThePenguin on 01 Aug 2009 - 15:11
Ozood said,
Yes, amongst the blogger, Tech journalist community, they have a real problem. It's impossible to get people that are using OSX to write anything about you that isn't completely slanted and biased.

Kettle, pot, and black comes to mind. A prime example would be most of the users of this site; unless you think they are not prejudiced against anything that isn't made by MS?
#19.2 Ozood on 01 Aug 2009 - 15:30
Well, when these people show up to an Apple presentation and rip on the many obnoxious things Apple officials say in blog posts, then you will have a point.
(1 reply) #20 LoveThePenguin on 01 Aug 2009 - 14:33
How can one man be wrong about so many things? hehe.
#20.1 Mega Goatlord on 02 Aug 2009 - 23:49
LoveThePenguin said,
How can one man be wrong about so many things? hehe.


I wonder the same thing each time I see one of your posts...
#21 CyberDragon777 on 01 Aug 2009 - 19:51
"I can see the Apple logos versus the PC logos. So we have more work to do, more work to do. Our share is lower in this audience than the average audience. But don't hide it. I've already counted them. I have been doing that since we started talking."
("Mental note: This room needs more chairs!"
(1 reply) #22 HalcyonX12 on 02 Aug 2009 - 17:23
Well, if consumers aren't buying into what you have to say about your own products, you might as well try and damage the appearance of your competitors, right? It's like the old bully tactic, if you've got a lot of issues, make other people feel worse than you do, that way you feel better, right? Well, in a bully's mind it works anyway! Good luck, Ballmer!
#22.1 wakers01 on 02 Aug 2009 - 21:16
So, what is it when Apple runs a multi-million dolloar, multi-year ad campaign attempting to "damage the apperance" of their biggest competitor, Microsoft?
#23 LaP on 03 Aug 2009 - 01:31
People are still listening to Ballmer?
#24 hotdog963al on 03 Aug 2009 - 08:30
I agree with what he says about Windows there...
but... "There is some really amazing, amazing work." - I've heard stuff like this time and time again and nothing 'amazing' ever shows up

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