Microsoft's CEO Steve Ballmer is a man who's not afraid to talk down his competitors. When Apple initially released the iPhone, he stated that it had no chance of gaining a significant market share. Now, when speaking to a group of market analysts, he has said that the growth that the Cupertino company is seeing with their Mac product range can be attributed to a rounding error.Whilst he was at the 2009 Financial Analyst Meeting, Ballmer said, "Share versus Apple, you know, we think we may have ticked up a little tick, but when you get right down to it, it's a rounding error. Apple's share change, plus or minus from ours, they took a little share a couple quarters, we took share back a couple quarters." He then added, "Apple's share globally cost us nothing. Now, hopefully, we will take share back from Apple, but you know, Apple still only sells about 10 million PCs, so it is a limited opportunity." Ballmer noticed that, in the crowd of the meeting, there was a large proportion of Apple computers. He noted, "I can see the Apple logos versus the PC logos. So we have more work to do, more work to do. Our share is lower in this audience than the average audience. But don't hide it. I've already counted them. I have been doing that since we started talking."
He did note that Apple is known for their higher quality machines that PCs usually are, saying, "At least when Apple attacks us, the primary attack that comes from Apple is, 'Hey, at the end of the day, we have the coolest hardware.' When you see the hardware, the PC designs that will come out this Christmas with Windows 7, I think that conventional wisdom can begin to really change. There is some really amazing, amazing work. So it is possible to get great hardware innovation, even when hardware and software comes from separate companies."
Ballmer describes Windows as falling in between OS X and Linux to get what consumers want; a product that's not too cheap, and not too expensive. About Apple, in this regard, he said, "We do not, say, like Apple, believe in low volume, very high prices, very -- Apple is a great company, does a fine job. But their model says high margin, high quality, high price. That's kind of how they come to market. We say we want big market share. But with big market share, you take a lower price."
Lastly, AppleInsider added on Ballmer's thoughts about Microsoft's 'Laptop Hunters' advertisement range, saying, "And are the ads working? In an independent survey, we asked 18- to 24-year-olds—or they were asked, 'Who offers the best value, Apple or Microsoft?' You can kind of see Apple was comfortably ahead despite the fact they — well, despite whatever the facts are. Our ads started in April of '09. You can see kind of what the perception changes have been so far."
















Last edited by dagrimdialer619 on 01 Aug 2009 - 00:45
Ballmer is nothing like jobs, jobs brought a company from nothing, ballmers driving microsoft to nothing. The sooner that nutjob is out of Microsoft, the sooner Microsoft pushes forward. They have excellent talent like steve from the windows and office team, yet this idiot keeps sticking his foot in his mouth, reminds me of prince phillip from the royal family in the uk. Everytime he goes out the royal family are scared he's gonna say something stupid.
Exactly! Both are BALD
I say keep balmer so he can destroy the whole company. What a day that will be when MS don't exist. Hmm, is that what we would call an utopia?
Except that he fails at everything he does.
That's so retarded. You really hate a company that damn much that you hope it doesn't exist? For what insane reason? That you just dont like their products?
Maybe the day Apple goes out of business will be the day all of their users drown themselves in the ocean, and we can all live in peace.
Its so fun to watch Linux users hate on Microsoft. Linux is like the fly on a cows butt looking for fresh droppings; and every time the cow wiggles it's tail the fly thinks some sort of seismic shift is occurring.
Run along now and start working on some OSS code. The freetards need you!
Maybe Linux will drive them both out of business, so there won't be any selfish monopolies misleading users and controlling development.
I like flamebait articles like this. Please continue to read the flamewar that follows
Ballmer can't and won't kill MS...it'll take a lot more employees and mistakes by committee to see that happen.
Everytime he goes out the royal family are scared the press will blow something out of proportion... maybe balmer, jobs, and philip are the same.
(Most things Phillip says are casual jokes that are thin to the line but nothing you wouldn't expect to hear daily in jokes and from comedians or anyone else, the only difference is people expect him to be a old git and have no fun. Calling the soviet union b*****ds for murdering half his family, joking about scottish boozing, and saying the problem with brazil is brazillians are all blown out of context and suggested he made press releases - when infact it was just mild conversation and 'banter'.
Let's replace corporations with selfish developers who have no obligation or interest in working for the community. It's the Linux way.
:p
Ballmer is talking bull****, Windows is the most expensive DESKTOP os, the next OS from Apple will be price at just $29 dollars, Microsoft could do the same, after Vista failure, they could give to the current Vista customers an incentive like that. Microsoft is going down like hell.
Not any time soon they're not.
Btw, Apple's OS is not $29. You missed the point where Apple's OS requires you to buy their hardware. Windows lets you choose the hardware you put in it.
That's all I will input on this matter.
Nope, $29 dollars only, not upgrade, full price.
http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-quarterly-200803-200902 , look at OSX market share, it is a joke.
The only service that showed significant improvement for OSX are marketshare.hitslink.com and the message on their site for June is Site Note: Browser and O/S June stats under review We are investigating some significant variations in browser and operating system statistics. The reports will not be available until we complete our review. --- gee I wonder what variations.
I think Microsoft makes alot of money now selling windows and office to macs.
Um no, you're wrong. It's $29 ONLY for those upgrading from Leopard. Everyone else, such as Tiger users, will be paying full price, which I don't think has been formally announced. I've heard both $149 and $199 mentioned, we'll see near launch day.
*some restrictions may apply
*some restrictions may apply
If you have Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard it will cost you $29. If you're still on Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger you'll have to play the full price. Apple explained this in their keynote and didn't make a secret out of it. Obviously you won't get the full OS + all of Leopard features for $29 if you're running Tiger.
But I don't wanna pay extra for features that I'll never use. Options are wayyy better than none.
If it's OK for you to run a mangled OS, then Windows "Starter Edition" is right for you.
By whose definition "mangled"? The features in Ultimate are completely pointless for 99% of users. The other 1% can get Ultimate, and pay more.
Depends on whose definition of "completely pointless" features.
So, going by your opinion, Ultimate versions of Windows are completely useless?
By the way, user management is not a pointless feature (a very important one as a matter a fact), yet some versions of Windows do not include such a feature... Mangled OS.
With balmer at the helm they're sinking like a boulder, and I'm enjoying every minute of it
So, going by your opinion, Ultimate versions of Windows are completely useless?
What you just did is called a straw man.
The biggest thing that bugs me about the decision to stratify Windows across so many different versions is that I don't really know whether I'll use some of those features or not. In many cases a feaure is completely new, and I can't get a good sense of just how useful it'd be from the description. You find out how useful it is to you by actually trying it out.
In all honesty, if I had to choose between spending tons of money on a version of Windows with all sorts of new technologies vs. spending on a version that I knew I'd use the feature set of, and Microsoft had been pulling stunts like this from way back when, then I'd probably be using a version of Windows with the Windows 95 feature set.
In light of Microsoft's efforts to make buying Windows as diverse as a fruit stand, Apple gets major credit in my book for having only two versions of their OS: desktop and server. It's very clear which version is aimed at who.
Hey buddy,
Until you can purchase an Apple Mac without OSX every retail copy of OSX is an upgrade since the initial OS install is already factored into the cost of the OS.
What Cnet showed in that article is that they do a very very poor job at getting their facts straight. There really isn't much in that article that is true. That both goes for the Windows and the OS X story. The biggest thing most people tend to forget are the OEM licenses Windows has and which are used by OEM's like HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc. Those licenses are nearly the same as the license Apple uses apart from the fact that Windows OEM is tied to a specific computer and the Apple is tied to any Apple computer. With an OEM machine you always pay for things as the hardware, the software, the service and the fact they put everything in a nice little package. What people also don't know are the prices of Lenovo and Sony computers, they are a bit higher than Apple computers. That and all of the mistakes regarding the upgrade to Windows 7 and MacOS X Snow Leopard make that Cnet article a big piece of garbage you really ought to ignore.
Most people buy a Mac because of OS X, not because you can run Windows on it. Apart from that Microsoft has been selling Office for the Mac for years now. So all in all they won't be making a lot of money because of that. They might make a bit more money selling Windows to Mac people that need it but the question remains if those people wouldn't have done exactly the same if they had a Windows machine.
BTW: marketshare is something that is quite hard to measure. A small or a big marketshare does not mean it's a good or a bad thing. It is what it is and you need a lot more than that to draw any conclusions. Did you see the difference in marketshare between Vista and XP on that link?
*some restrictions may apply
Restrictions being it won't run on the old PowerPC architecture anymore. Leopard is the last of the OS X versions that did. The same way Windows NT 4.0 was the last Windows to run on the Alpha architecture.
Until you can purchase an Apple Mac without OSX every retail copy of OSX is an upgrade since the initial OS install is already factored into the cost of the OS.
There's a difference between the license and what you can do technically. The license is an upgrade license but technically you have a full version so you can either upgrade the existing system or do a clean install. I think that's what he meant to say.
I list the upgrade version of Windows because it's essentially the same thing. The full version of OSX won't do you a lot of good without a Mac, and the upgrade version of Vista won't be too useful without a previous copy of Windows.
(meant to be a reply to cabron's post)
Not if you include all the software you have to buy to equal the functionality of a mac right out of the box. Not only that but OEM PC components are usually junk. I'd rather build my own or buy a mac.
Macs parts are built by OEMs. same components. Only a few things like the case and motherboard are custom-designed and usually only to fit the form factor.
Sure, just as right as when he said the iPhone has no chance of gaining a significant market share.
About what? While MS lost sales last quarter and took their first major hit in growth, Apple had a record non-holiday quarter. If price is the main concern why is Apple making gains in a down economy?
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-...re.aspx?qprid=8
Look at that, they fixed their stats and osx are back below 5%
You know he's not new, right?
But wasn't gates in charge when vista was developed? That kind of negates that point no?
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-...re.aspx?qprid=8
Look at that, they fixed their stats and osx are back below 5%
Yeah, well I'm not about to trust such an "windows looking" website!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Ballmer#Microsoft_career
Because he only just joined MS yesterday...
And they may have taken a hit, pretty sure Apple has taken hits as a company or at least in some of it's markets this year also. Not forgetting both companies have major products around the corner too. MS is hardly sinking.
Having said that, Jobs' truth bending is about as annoying as Ballmer's condescending attitude.
Finally...
I've heard this many times before, but it has rarely materialized. If true, they sure are keeping the hardware designs under wrap well. I hope I'm wrong though.
Agreed
Just implictly add a '-ly' inflection to 'bad' then you have grammaticality. And personally I've seen much worse.
Ain't Computing Fun!
Ain't Computing Fun!
I think it's the fact that he can't put together an intelligent, coherent sentence. I'm not saying his point is wrong, just that he sounds partially retarded.
I have done so many things I had promiss myself I wouldnt do.
"This is the last time I'll talk to you!"
^^ Yeah, right!
+1. Wait... I'm sitting at one now
edit: and as I was raised from both camps, in my honest opinion "Ballmer describes Windows as falling in between OS X and Linux" is incorrect. If anything OS X falls between Windows and Linux. Quite literally, OS X is based around linux.
Windows is something completely different, it is off the other end of the scale because it is useful for something. It does not fit in between OS X and Linux.
I want Uncle Bill back
Last edited by dagrimdialer619 on 01 Aug 2009 - 00:48
Except that it's not. It's based around Darwin, which was derived from BSD and NEXTSTEP.
ok sorry, I got the wrong information.
Don't let that stop you from speaking with absolute conviction. Don't let the facts get in the way now, that just slows down the thought processes :0 Either way, Linux or BSD are very robust OS, which just lack the ease of use of Windows or Mac.
I absolutely disagree. A Linux system can be just as easy (or even easier) to use as a Windows system or even a MacOSX system. It only needs to be setup correctly, from there it's just point and click.
He wasn't talking about the codebase when he made that statement, anyway.
And BSD is based on Unix
Linux is based on Unix.
Hmmm.....Do we see a connection?
Linux is based on Unix.
Hmmm.....Do we see a connection?
Linux was based on Minix. Except it wasn't a microkernel, so even then it wasn't a copy, as that is a significant difference.
And none of that changes the ludicrous statement that OSX is based on Linux.
Like this:
Euros are based on money.
US Dollars are based on money.
therefore, Euros are based on US Dollars! ?
I was actually originally going to say Unix.
OS X most certainly is a far superior operating system to Windows in many regards. People just need to get their heads around how to do things.
One last word,
Ballmer is nuts. Microsoft needs a forward thinker with charisma.
Linux is based on Unix.
Hmmm.....Do we see a connection?
Linux was based on Minix. Except it wasn't a microkernel, so even then it wasn't a copy, as that is a significant difference.
And none of that changes the ludicrous statement that OSX is based on Linux.
Like this:
Euros are based on money.
US Dollars are based on money.
therefore, Euros are based on US Dollars! ?
PMSL hahaha except he's right BSD core, was based on *nix, it's all relative anyway, personal and professional choices are utilised when making your decision over any OS and system, notto mention cost. those of us who spend every single business hour locked into the monotiny (sp??) that is the major business world use Windows, but then we generally use *nix on the servers as opposed to Windows Server, and then our graphics/media teams use Macs.
I'm a PC either way, gee I make myself laugh hahahaha
I think you over-rate Steve's importance to many. Yes, to active Apple supporters and some investors Steve is the voice/vision of the company, but I'll bet just as many don't have a clue.
No one thinks Apple is going to take over the marketplace, but they are denting MS marketshare and that cost them money.
You know 90% is below the stats for the rest of the world? Your stat would need to be above 95% to mean something special.
(only 90% PC users would mean Apple is doing pretty damn well in France.)
That doesn't mean 90% are using MS software. In fact recently most of france's government moved to GNU/Linux. And remember MS doesn't dominate in europe the way it does in the US.
Of course that all assumes you didn't make that 90% number up. What survey are you talking about exactly?
What are you talking about, nowhere has Apple said this. Apple talks quite distinctly about how many Laptops they sell, and how many phones. They don't keep it secret like Microsoft does over how many Windows versions it sells, or how many people buy Vista and then upgrade to XP.
Although it would not surprise me....
Source?
Phil Schiller counter OSX = Mac + iPhone (without splitting numbers) during MW'09...so you are wrong.
My head almost exploded reading this article.
. He noted, "I can see the Apple logos versus the PC logos. So we have more work to do, more work to do. Our share is lower in this audience than the average audience."
Yes, amongst the blogger, Tech journalist community, they have a real problem. It's impossible to get people that are using OSX to write anything about you that isn't completely slanted and biased.
How many times have Apple reps trashed competitors only to have the same blogging community that rips everything Ballmer says, completely ignore, or downplay their words? And what Ballmer said isnt in the same league of putting "Snow Leopard" on a screen and crossing out snow, and saying it's the same thing.
You know like Apple did just a few weeks ago.
And when is the last time Apple praised anything from their competitors?
Kettle, pot, and black comes to mind. A prime example would be most of the users of this site; unless you think they are not prejudiced against anything that isn't made by MS?
I wonder the same thing each time I see one of your posts...
("Mental note: This room needs more chairs!"
but... "There is some really amazing, amazing work." - I've heard stuff like this time and time again and nothing 'amazing' ever shows up
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