Apple has come clear on its return policy for the App Store; don't even think about it. Apple has stated that there will be no returning of an App purchased on the App Store If you want to try out one of the new navigation programs that can run upwards of $100.00 then you better be willing to part with your money even if you don't like the program. There is only one way to get a refund but don't expect or plan on this method to work. "According to paragraph 12B of Apple's App Store Terms and Conditions, you're entitled to your money back when, ‘On occasion, technical problems may delay or prevent delivery of your product.' Other than that, you're out of luck."
The most annoying part about spending a lot of money on an App is that, unlike a retail product that you could resell on eBay, there is no way to recover your investment if you dislike the App.
Apple claims that there is enough information in the App Store to give buyers a good indication of what to expect with the App they are about to purchase. Apple cites that "Customer Ratings and Reviews, App Store Essentials, Staff Favorites, New & Noteworthy section, Top 100 Free Charts, Top 100 Paid Charts, and Top 100 Grossing Charts" provides enough information to inform the consumer about their purchase.
While some companies do offer free "lite" versions of their applications it is not a given for every App. While other stores from Blackberry and Palm do offer the ability to give timed trials of an application, Apple has yet to allow this practice on its own store.
Thankfully most apps don't cost a lot.
Thankfully most apps don't cost a lot.
This type of policy is nothing new with digital downloads. When companies started doing digital downloads in general this was a universal policy. Get a digital copy then you can't get a refund. Now they are much more lenient but some companies still have loop holes. For example Acronis requires a signed letter of destruction that states you have destroyed all digital downloads and copies of the license key that you are aware of.
I can sign it but that doesn't mean I have distroyed it
My download copy of Vista had the same policy if I remember correctly.
Thankfully most apps don't cost a lot.
In that case then, the onus is on the developer to code his or her app properly.
If their app doesn't work, or is over hyped, then that exactly what they should be getting!
Apple probably don't pay their developers for months anyway, so I doubt it would be a problem.
I agree, is a downloadable software, why it need to be returned? It is not a retail boxed software.
@ dvb, some people want to return it because they found something better or changed their mind. Not because it didn't work as advertised. While I agree the developer should release quality software. I don't think they should have the right to return it, especially if its under $5. To me a digital download is like buying a meal out, if you already ate half your meal it's not exactly practical to demand a refund. In that scenario they more than likely give you a store credit than money back. Apple does this with music/videos if you aren't satisfied. However Apps fall back on the developer. Apple can't be responsible for giving iTunes credit when something they have little control over doesn't meet consumer demands.
If there was a solid way to ensure it was actually deleted or removed sure. But these days anyone smart enough can remove the drm. There's been apps I've bought and wished I didn't TomTom for one because its not really that great. But as a developer I still have to side with Apple on no returns as much as I may wish to return some apps myself.
The best idea would be to create a free, trial version that either expires or locks down the majority of features after a given period of time. Then users can 'rent' the app before they buy it. However few developers do this.
Wrong: Returns: You have 24 hours from the time of purchase (not download) to return any applications purchased from Android Market for a full refund of any applicable fees. You may only return a given application one time; if you subsequently purchase the same application again, you may not return it a second time. Where the option to return an application is available, it will be made available to you through the Android Market user interface. You may not return any Products other than applications.
No Apple’s policy on this one is just plain stupid, a sentiment well suited to many aspects of the Apple experience.
On a side note, this is an interesting article on consumer laws for people in the UK: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8253915.stm
This applies to all transactions carried out over a distance, not just to online transactions.
In a nutshell, you can get your refund. But there are some things you should be aware of.
"You do have to bear in mind who pays the postage."
And there are a range of things that are excluded: newspapers, magazines, personalised goods, flowers, food, software where the seal is broken, clothes that have been worn other than just to try them on, hotel bookings, and transport tickets.
Where it applies: The law applies across the UK, but has some differences as applied in Scotland and Northern Ireland.
So if you don't like that app, and it's within 7 days, take a bite out of Apple, because they CANNOT trump the UK's distance selling act, no matter how hard they try.
Apart from that you're spot on.
As far as I know, not even in the UK can you return a software product, unless it doesnt work like it is supposed to. I can't buy a copy of windows, decide I didnt like it, and return it to the store, can I?
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_...eral/oft698.pdf
Page 18:
no later than the time the goods are delivered, their cancellation
rights end seven working days after the day on which they
received the goods
@Lee: Fair enough, though most people would take delivered and received to be the same thing.
If you read the quote above from the BBC article you can return software but not if the seal has been broken. Thus if you ordered Windows and decided you didn't need it you could return it still in the original shrink wrap but the moment you opened the packaging in order to install it then your right to return ends.
In general, you are only entitled to refunds when the thing is defective, regardless of the type of the product. You're not entitled to refunds at all if the thing is okay. You can get store credit, etc, but actual refunds that's mostly a courtesy.
No you can't. Most retailers will not accept a return once any seal/shrink wrapping has been removed. Most High Street stores and Online Retailers do not offer refunds on PC Games/Software unless it is faulty, which is your statutory rights.
If you simple change your mind about a product you are not 'legally' entitled to a refund - this is known as a 'Goodwill' refund in retail.
If you simple change your mind about a product you are not 'legally' entitled to a refund - this is known as a 'Goodwill' refund in retail.
Actually, if you change your mind, you can exercise your right under (most) EULAs to return the product for a full refund. You can do this by simply not agreeing to the EULA.
There's always enough information on anything that you buy...doesn't mean that you won't like it, or that it was completely different to what you were looking for.
Apple has got to stop ripping off their customers.
Stupid Apple...again deciding what their consumers want and limiting their options.
Stupid Apple...again deciding what their consumers want and limiting their options.
Yup, love the Android Market
Sure it is. You must want and like the Apps they provide...why there is no refund.
I believe the choice is entirely in the hands of Apple. Other companies appear to show the use of timed trials, and the Android itself seems to allow a refund for apps you don't find pleasing. These are all good options. The only thing I would hope for though, is that the refund for Android apps is time limited. Meaning of course, you don't use an app for 6 months and then decide to refund it. Though, I'm pretty sure they would have that covered.
No sense in limiting customers like this.
Stupid Apple...again deciding what their consumers want and limiting their options.
You are kidding right? As a developer, I will have changed my mind and will not support any android phones. This is ridiculous. There must be some sort of limit on this.
Stupid Apple...again deciding what their consumers want and limiting their options.
You are kidding right? As a developer, I will have changed my mind and will not support any android phones. This is ridiculous. There must be some sort of limit on this.
Its not always a refund. The refund only applies within 24 hours of purchase. After that no refund is possible. Also if you got it refunded once and bought it again, you cannot get another refund.
Somewere in the fair trading act
Can you explain how this would be considered Monopolistic? I don't even understand how that even fits into this discussion.
Do you understand what a legal Monopoly is? How is market share have anything to do with anti-competitive practices... and how does that relate to not refunding for digital purchases?
Don't worry, nobody here understands what Monopoly actually means.
How is it not monopolistic? Where else are you going to buy apps for your iPhone? Where else are you going to sell the apps you develop for the iPhone (granted - devs do stand to make more money with a no-refund policy, but at the same time, have little leeway to influence how to market their apps AND are out of luck if Apple doesnt approve the app.)?
Install.ous FTW!!!
Any app/game over a few ÂŁ i try before i buy.
That's exactly what I do...
See Apple? With this type of policies you're actually encouraging piracy!
It's not circular logic. There is no law requiring them to refund consumer money. It's the same as if you buy an MP3 from Amazon; or if you open a DVD after purchasing it...you can not return it! It's media. Once it's accessed, it could be copied and distributed. Once you've paid for it; it's yours. You can return damanged, PHYSICAL media for an exchange of the same product; but you can not get a refund on it from most retailers. Digital media is even further in this vein. Once you have the file, there is no way for the seller, Apple, to know if you have copied or distribute it. There is no law. This is not circular logic. This is common sense.
That is so stupid. Apple sure as hell can rid you off that app if they wanted to, revoke the apps license, how the hell do other app stores, like Android for instance give you a 24h trial period and refunds and are also able to stop you from using the app?
I think you need to dial down the Apple love a bit and think logically. It's not that they can't give you a refund, it's that they DON'T WANT TO. They'd rather keep the money they suckered people into handing over.
All the online research you do won't change the simple fact that you yourself won't know if the app you are getting fits your needs IF YOU DON'T TRY IT OUT YOURSELF!
Having loads of people spill out there personal opinions for apps on reviews means crap in the end. We don't all share the same tastes and preferences. Start to use some common sense please.
...
Yes it is.
It is circular logic. Some countries provide the consumer with a right to return goods under certain conditions. If the vendor is convinced that the customer copied the product before returning it, they need to bring legal action on the customer for copyright infringement. They cannot refuse to refund the consumer, because that is a right protected by law.
I bet the developers arn't too happy.
Wal-Mart probably will refund your money. They will take just about anything back w/o questions asked. But Apple should be willing to give refunds for crappy apps. They can "see" whats on your iPhone/iPod to verify that you aren't running an unlicensed copy. So, this is kind of different.
I can understand (to some extend) DLC like music, especially now that the majority of the market is DRM free.
When i buy digital contents online (XBox Live, Steam, Apple Apps Store) i don't expect to be able to get a refund.
Software that is purchased at a retail store will only get a refund if it is returned unopened. This means seal intact and everything. If you open it then you can only return it for an even exchange. This is a standard policy at all retail stores. Walmart is no exception to that at all.
Thats the other thing, Apple should enforce a demo policy. Just make all apps free to download for 24 hours, and then they expire (like their movie rentals). If people want to buy it after that 24 hour period then thats up to them. Might not be a good idea for all the 0.99 apps on there, but for the 99.00 apps it should be an option.
I bought a HTC Hero, oh boy - now that's a smart phone (multi tasking too, I can use sat nav & phone at the same time!
And, you automatically get refunded within 24 hours of the purchase, if you uninstall the App because you didn't like it, Apple should take note.
I bought a HTC Hero, oh boy - now that's a smart phone (multi tasking too, I can use sat nav & phone at the same time!
And, you automatically get refunded within 24 hours of the purchase, if you uninstall the App because you didn't like it, Apple should take note.
They mean the itunes app store
Oh oops, late night...I thought he meant apple refunded his iphone purchase...LOL
Presumeably they could argue the app has been customised as it is signed to your account?
What the F is Apple thinking? We absolutely cannot rely on consumer feedback as a reliable indication of how good and useful the application is. Let's look at an example of Windows 7 for this method of judging how good a software product is (or rather how useful it will be to the individual).
As we all know, Windows 7 looks great, better than XP but is it more useful than XP? If you go by all the reviews from non-techy and tech-savvy users you would think so. However, I have personally found the software to actually cripple me. As a disabled man, my needs are very different from others and there are some things (undocumented at this time) that I've found in my beta testing that make Win7 more inefficient to use over WinXP. As a result, I cannot rely on the average "5 Star" rating that Windows 7 would get. And this method of determining if an application is good is totally useless and totally unreliable.
If we take the Microsoft Windows 7 example again; Microsoft has allowed us to try the application for almost a year in beta, free of charge to determine if we like it or not. Why can't the Apple AppStore do this too?
I actually proposed the following to Apple a few months ago and they rejected the idea, just because they know they will lose revenue from dissatisfied customers.
I proposed that all applications are free of charge for the first 3 days or first 3 uses, which ever is the shortest. This gives the user a reasonable time to try out the app and see if it suits their needs. If the user deletes the app before 3 uses or 3 days, then the user isn't charged but anytime after that, the auto charge is applied.
Makes sense right? This is good for the customer as they'll get to know if the software is good for them or not.
One could argue that this method of selling isn't good for the developer or Apple. However, I beg to disagree. There are some very, VERY, VERY crappy apps out there. Most are hideous and totally useless. If the developer knew he would not get paid for making an ugly and useless app, he would then try to focus on making something better. This forces developers to be better software developers. As a result of this "survival of the fittest" method, Apple could profit greatly in terms of image and customer satisfaction.
Some argue that $0.99 isn't much. What BS!
I will not pay a single penny for something that is crap or for something that I have been misled in to buying after reading what are useless reviews. If you saw a crappy movie at a theater, did you know you are entitled to a refund? If you had a crappy meal in a restaurant, did you know you are entitled to a refund also? Why should this not be applied to the AppStore too?
Point in fact: I once downloaded the very first currency converter on the AppStore. There were no reviews and I was the first to get it. The product description made me think exactly what you're thinking about it right now.
Go on, pause for a moment and think about what that software could, should and would deliver. To remind you again, it's a Currency Converter, worth $0.99. After 1 minute continue reading...
After downloading the app, I discovered it only converted from USD to GBP and not vice versa or to any other currency. However, what made it really bad was that it did not update the exchange rate. IT WAS USING A FIXED RATE! W. T . F?????
The screenshot didn't reveal this flaw in the app, the description didn't talk about this failing and there were no reviews to help me. I was out by $0.99 and this duchebag-2-bit-unsofisticated-developer was getting his pocket lined with Apples help after releasing a useless application. Apple refunded me after I complained but said this would be a one time thing. BTW: 2 years later, that duche has still not updated his app.
If my idea of the payment system were in place, that developer would never have seen a penny and would have thus been forced to develop a more sophisticated and visually attractive application.
Apple are to blame for giving stupid developers a gateway to profit from writing bad software and for leaving iPhone and iPod users unsatisfied with the AppStore.
More food for thought...
When I brought my MacBook Air, I asked Apple if they would refund me should I not be 100% satisfied with my $2000 purchase. They said they would be more than happy to do so if I was not 100% satisfied.
If we all protested, rather than be apathetic, Apple could change their money grabbing ways with the AppStore.
I think this "news" was just to add up to the other bad news regarding Apple this week. It could have been said at any time, but since things go really bad this week, let's just hit the nail once more.
That being said, if other companies offer the possibility to get a refund after say, 24 hours, I don't see why Apple can't. It has to be on the track somehow...
These things are hard to get a refund for, though with some fancy DRM Sony could've done it if they wanted as well. Tie the d/l to your PSN account+ your PS3 ID# and it'd be easy to give you your money back and stop you from using the media you downloaded. That's the thing with closed systems in general. The iPhone is no different.
The bottom line the way I see it is by offering no refunds or trial periods they're just greedily raking in the cash without a care in the world.
All the info and reviews of a app beforehand won't do you much good if at the end once you try it you don't like it for some personal reason of your own. Coming up with the excuse that "there's loads of info online about the apps" is a cheap one to me.
The big problem I feel here is that Apple has made a change in how they wish to do business. They've gone to a less consumer friendly alternative, that is probably the worst compared to other options offered by other companies.
First, I said that I don't see why Apple can't use Google's system. I didn't say Apple can't use it, I said I'd like it.
As for the PSN, yes I can buy media content like videos, themes, DLC, etc. but I can also buy a game... And as far as I know, a game is an application, it's just that it's meant to have fun with it. It should be refundable as well. This news doesn't apply just to Apple.
The thing that surprises me is, the App Store is like 2 years old I think, and it is today that we realize that they offer no refunds. :-
Software/Music cannot be returned unopened...
You cannot buy "Closed" apps from Apple.
If I hit buy, with 1 click purchases.
Apple has not only sold me a piece of software.
THEY have just opened it in such a way that I cannot return it.
I am able to return sealed, purchased software that has no value to me.
"Buyers Remorse" its called in Canada.
Now.. If I am not even delivered a sealed something from Apple, I have no ability to RETURN it sealed.
The system itself is set up to void the ability right from the point of purchase (who knows if it was on purpose or not!
The fact that a retailer seems to have no regular method to return "unopened", unwanted, product seems to be a large problem to me.
I understand the idea that digital media can be pirated AFTER use. Why is there no method for reverting sales BEFORE use.
They have the means to track who uses the apps....
To be honest, I would just deal with your credit card company, and not even bother with Apple from the looks of things.
That way not only will Apple be charged for the refund, I'm sure your CC company will charge a little extra for the service to the retailer.
Demo's work much better for developers, and still provide the consumer with a way to try the application. The problem with saying ZOMG REFUNDS is that a lot of people who have NO interest buying an application will buy it, then refund it or rip the application and post it all over the internet. The refund then costs the developer money for the distribution of the said application. So on a 30/70 split the developer will lose 30% of the product cost for a refund, which a demo would not introduce. This could result in dropping the number and quality of games in the app store, because people don't want to risk LOSING money. Especially indie developers doing it as a side job. I do believe weeding through all the crap is purely due to the huge revenue streams available for good apps. Opportunists always go straight to where the money is, especially if there is a remote chance of getting some of that money.
Whilst I do believe that some developers are wrongly making enormous amounts of money on the app store, if people are daft enough to purchase an app, knowing there is no refund mechanism, that is THEIR problem.
DEMOS > REFUNDS
The .ipa files contain DRM which is signed in that file to your iTunes account when downloaded. Therefore, in theory if they allowed refunds, anyone could just keep using said app and get their money back.
Which 100% guaranteed would happen.
I don't know how Android works, so I cannot comment on their system. Are the files DRM'd? Or are they actually activated server side?
Server side would be a mess in my mind, in case of lost backups, corruption, or just plain loss of connection.
In any case, from what I've read, if you've had serious problems with an app, the developer, or Apple can and will refund you.
Apple: "we can't give refunds."
consumer: "why not?"
apple: "because the system won't let us ensure you don't have the product anymore"
consumer: "didn't you design the system?"
apple: "yes"
that's why there is a difference between reasons and excuses.
Apple: "we can't give refunds."
consumer: "why not?"
apple: "because the system won't let us ensure you don't have the product anymore"
consumer: "didn't you design the system?"
apple: "yes"
that's why there is a difference between reasons and excuses.
Sure they could have, but I doubt they could have and still had adequate DRM to protect the devs.
That is their problem; their inability to protect their developers does not absolve them of the need for them to comply with local laws.
There's an app for that!
Huh? Was there a new statement, a controversy? No. Neowin just caught up to what was already clear more than a year ago. You guys are slowly getting quicker.
So there is no way to take the app you've purchased and save it off of the iphone? Is it locked to your phone or is there just no way to do it.
I'm just thinking that someone could make an app to save an app so it could be resold...
So there is no way to take the app you've purchased and save it off of the iphone? Is it locked to your phone or is there just no way to do it.
I'm just thinking that someone could make an app to save an app so it could be resold...
The DRM is locked to an iTunes account, you can activate up to 5 iphones/ipod touches per account I believe.
So you could allow someone to 're-purchase' off you if you wanted them tied to your account I suppose.
I wouldn't say it's that at all... Returns on software is one thing, but trials are VERY common... That should have been thought of when originally planning the App Store.
Whether or not to offer a "lite" or trial of an app on the store is up to the developer, just as it is everywhere else in the software world. Some do, some don't, just as it is everywhere else in the software world.
Yes, but the mechanism isn't there. For the Microsoft XBox Arcade Games, you can easily download a trial before purchasing. This is 2009... This sort of option should be planned and built into ANY digital distribution channel... There's no excuse to not have something like this built in...
What are you talking about? Have you ever used the App Store? Lots of developers do offer trial versions (called "lite" usually) of games and apps. If you don't know what the hell you are talking about, I suggest you stay the hell out of the discussion.
The best solution would be to refund say 90% of the money if the user deletes the application within an hour or two of purchasing (and installing) the app. This would let people try it out and make sure they want to fork over the whole amount.
On the other hand what about an app that is designed to be run a single time to perform a task. Why should the user have the option to get 90% of the money back after using the app?
I'm happy for Devs to have the option to release Lite versions.
Digital media law is MUCH different to normal law so XerXis you are wrong. To prove this go buy a cd, open it and try to return it because you don't like it. You wont get a refund.
Anybody that has an issue with this will be forever tarnished with my scamming brush.
Digital media law is MUCH different to normal law so XerXis you are wrong. To prove this go buy a cd, open it and try to return it because you don't like it. You wont get a refund.
Anybody that has an issue with this will be forever tarnished with my scamming brush.
no because in that case you have unsealed the cd, which is one of the exceptions:
â– for the supply of audio or video recordings or computer software which were unsealed by the consumer;
However the law says nothing about digital downloads as exception (read it if you don't believe me). Therefore apple would have to convince a judge that installing a digital download would be the same as unsealing. Which is doubtful as their has been cases of ebooks returned which had to be fully refunded.
As a consumer I think there should be a trail on all digital software. It is not fair to the consumer to be stuck with a piece of crap software that some developer put together just to make money.
The comments and ratings can be falsified, however.
Steam do refunds in Russia.
As for itunes, i can only speak for myself when i say this but i know what I want and they do have the 30 sec preview of songs which I use a lot to make sure I get what I want.
Apple should have a for all its apps demo's, and not restricted but full working for say 7-14 days, that way people and use it and if they like it buy it if not then they dont.
They will only allow an excahnge for the exact same software, unless they don't have anymore. And the they don't give you cash back, instead you get insrore credit that can be used to make a different piurchase.
I think when a programs for phones especially being available as electronic downloads only, they should make it mandatory that a scaled down or trial version be avail for free. The reason Apple is not allowing return, bec many would abuuse it. They wouldn't be reteuning it bec they don't like it. They would first be using it and then returning it. Unless Apple allows a return if it is done within 24 hours. That would be fair. After a day...its yours.
But i think the no return policy is fair. If you not sure...better not buy it.
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