Nokia sues Apple over the iPhone

News reported on the BBC news website states that Nokia, the world's giant in the manufacturing of mobile phone technology, is suing Apple for infringing patents on mobile phone technology used in the iPhone. Nokia added that this patent breach applies on all iPhones since its launch in 2007.

Nokia have said that this is due to a lack of compensation from Apple, who they are accusing of "trying to get a free ride on the back of Nokia's innovation". These alleged infringements, of which there are ten- involve wireless data, speech coding, security and encryption. Nokia have said that they hold agreements with roughly forty firms who use the technology which Nokia has worked hard to develop, including most mobile phone handset makers - allowing them to use the firm's technology. Apple however, have not signed any such agreement with Nokia and as such find themselves in this situation. During the last two decades, Nokia had invested approximately 40bn euros (£36.2bn; $60bn) on research and development. Recently, Nokia has seen its first quarterly loss in a decade amid falling sales. Analysts said that the poor results had come partly as customers turned from Nokia models to the iPhone and RIM's Blackberry. Apple's iPhone continues to remain a hugely profitable piece of technology for Apple.

In a public announcement; Ilkka Rahnasto, vice-president of legal and intellectual property at Nokia said the following:

"The basic principle in the mobile industry is that those companies who contribute in technology development to establish standards create intellectual property, which others then need to compensate for, Apple is also expected to follow this principle."

The BBC have spoken to an industry analyst who believes that Nokia may be suing Apple in order to extract royalty payments from Apple. Piper Jaffray analyst Gene Munster estimates that the Finnish company might be looking to force royalty payments of 1-2% on every iPhone sold. With more than 30 million sold, that would work out to $6 to $12 per phone sold, or as much as $400m, a very small amount in terms of Apple's complete income.

Gene Munster commented further saying: "Ultimately, the resolution is uncertain." An Apple spokesman told the BBC that the firm did not comment on pending litigation.

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Does anyone here actually know what patents Apple are being sued over?
If not why all the judgement?

It is clear that either Apple think the price is too high or that they do not violate the patent or maybe they paid by someo ther means.

There is no point in going to court if Apple don't have any case at all, so they must have some reason.

Also I a long term windows mobile 6.1 /6.5 user on htc and Moved to the iPhone. The iPhone is soo far ahead of the game it isnt funny. I'll move off apple when something better comes along. Android isn't in aus yet... Only time will tell how it goes in the market.

Re hacking, of course they have to stop u from doing it, they have obligations licenses etc which can be byasses /broken if the phone is hacked... Ie phone unlocking... Apple become liable.

I think the main point is that the other companies have respected the patents (Nokia invested in creating these things and patented them). For another company to come along use someone elses ground work and ignore the patents they may be using is really the main point here.

The whole reason that these things were patented was to make sure they get a return on there investment into finding new way and methods of doing things. If everyone came along and just copied and used other peoples patents without consequences, there would be no one who would invest time and resources into making them.

As someone else stated above the other main manufacturers have all recognised the fact Nokia owns these patents, they want to use them and then they paid to use them, they may not want to, but this is how things should work.

I really hope Apple is made an example of here, if the shoe was on the other foot, Apple would not have waited so long before taking them to court. It is not a case of who is innovative, or who has the better phones, this is about using research and development from another company that has protected there investment with a patent. Then another company coming along and using that patent for there own gains without paying the patent holder.

Apple really does take the biscuit when it come to stepping on other people toes, and I am sure this court case will drag on for many many years until eventually they pay up. I really do hope Nokia get something in return for apple using there patents (if this is the case). Using an excuse like it holds back innovation is a no brainer, if your going to use a patent to innovate from you need to pay the patent holder. Eventually the patent may not be applicable because your further innovation has changed it, but the initial innovation was of the back of someone elses patent which should be payed for.

The facts are Apple is quick to sue anyone they think even hints at using something they've patented, but they completely ignore their own use of patents held by others. Nokia has tried in good faith to negotiate license to Apple, repeatedly, but Apple refuses. Every other manufacturer has made license agreements with Nokia, but Apple refuses. Why?

Apple is just being an arrogant a**, and for that I hope they lose BILLIONS.

fuzi0719 said,
The facts are Apple is quick to sue anyone they think even hints at using something they've patented, but they completely ignore their own use of patents held by others. Nokia has tried in good faith to negotiate license to Apple, repeatedly, but Apple refuses. Every other manufacturer has made license agreements with Nokia, but Apple refuses. Why?

Apple is just being an arrogant a**, and for that I hope they lose BILLIONS.


I hope it puts an end to this whole thing. for good.

Seems to be the way every corporation goes nowadays...Oh, we show a loss, lets sue someone, it can't be our fault.
Granted there may be some validity in the case, only time will (May) tell.

Why the hate?
Are you completely oblivious to the changes Apple have made to the mobile phone industry? They raised the bar... for years mobile platforms have been ****ty, but now they're all touch screen, running native apps and what-not. Oh wait- that's a bad thing because of Apple's TV ads, I forgot, this is Neowin!

Huh? You think Apple created a touchscreen? Raised the bar for what? The only thing they've really done right is create hype that the phone does not deserve. Windows Mobile has had touch screens, keyboards, native apps etc for yonks now. Nokia has also had the same thing. The only thing that pushed this iPhone was its major advertising and people who don't know any better.

They may not have created the touchscreen, they may not have invented the 'native app' but (and for the record, I don't own an iPhone, but i have an iPod Touch) Apple did a fantastic job of it, afaik the iPhone is the first phone to have a multi-touch screen, the iTunes App-Store is very well implemented from my experience and I've found that it is, overall, very easy to use. As a side note, I have owned a few different Nokia phones, Windows Mobiles and various others and, if I had had the money when I bought my Touch, I believe I would have been very pleased if I had purchased an iPhone.

The iPhone is an amazing piece of equipment. Doesn't mean all other companies must take what is dished out because of that fact.. doesn't work for Microsoft.

hotdog963al said,
but now they're all touch screen


I had an LG Viewty YEARS before the iPhone was around and that was a touch screen...

I would almost say Apple jumped on the touchscreen band wagon.

I'm typing this on a DellXT2 with multitouch... but I'm sure if Apple ever release a tablet, they will be the first in the industry?

hotdog963al said,
Why the hate?
Are you completely oblivious to the changes Apple have made to the mobile phone industry? They raised the bar... for years mobile platforms have been ****ty, but now they're all touch screen, running native apps and what-not. Oh wait- that's a bad thing because of Apple's TV ads, I forgot, this is Neowin!

Apple hasn't made anything new or different to industry or phones in general. Nokia is still much further ahead of them with hardware and features.

Oh lets not forget Nokia gives you choice too not only with software but hardware too and don't lock you in. Play apples for apples, sure N95 alone alone more then likely has sold equal or more then iphone to date I imagine. Compare that + rest of Nokias lineups the iphones insignificance shows.

Dw though, this is neowin. Not neowakia.

DPorter said,
I had an LG Viewty YEARS before the iPhone was around and that was a touch screen...

I would almost say Apple jumped on the touchscreen band wagon.

I'm typing this on a DellXT2 with multitouch... but I'm sure if Apple ever release a tablet, they will be the first in the industry?

But it wasn't mainstream. If you had a touch screen or even a smart phone, you were in a limited arena. The average joe either didn't care or couldn't afford one. With the iPhone, all the other cell companies catered their versions and made them available to everyone.

DPorter said,
I had an LG Viewty YEARS before the iPhone was around and that was a touch screen...

I would almost say Apple jumped on the touchscreen band wagon.

I'm typing this on a DellXT2 with multitouch... but I'm sure if Apple ever release a tablet, they will be the first in the industry?


You mean the LG KU990 Viewty which was released in October 2007, AFTER the iPhone released in June 2007? Get your facts straight before you try to troll...

I wasn't saying they were the first to introduce the touch screen, obviously. I was saying that there has been a massive increase in mainstream handsets, since the iPhone's launch, that feature (multi) touch panels and widget like applications.
I'm not saying they're perfect, just that they've forced competitors to get a move on with developing their platforms!

Nokia's smart phone sales plummet. Couple weeks later they decide to sue Apple.

Coincidence? I think not.

So true. It's not like it would take longer than a couple weeks to come up with enough evidence to launch a lawsuit.

/s

The timing is not even near a coincidence. With global finances the way they are, the board would have demanded it's financial underlings to work out ways to increase profit or increase money coming in. I doubt this will be the only lawsuit Nokia files, just the largest.

ccoltmanm said,
What took them so long to say something?

technology evaluation, case building, compiling evidence and things you know which courts need to prove and justify things.

As well as the fact that Nokia have repeatedly seeked to find a amicable agreement to this. Nokia have spent two years trying to negotiate a deal, and Apple haven't listened, and this is the result.

it's because of large samsung growth (+5% annually in total market share). apple has nohting to do with it. and it's not by 7% of market share, but 7% growth to previous figure.

It seems that the tide is shifting, of course it's insignificant at the moment, but from the BBC articles:

"Earlier this month, Nokia posted its first quarterly loss in a decade amid falling sales.
Analysts said that the poor results had come partly as customers turned from Nokia models to the iPhone and RIM's Blackberry.
Meanwhile, Apple reported profits of $1.67bn (£1bn) in the three months to 26 September - partly due to a 7% growth in iPhone sales."


Get your facts right please. If you read a more reliable and detailed source you will find that the loss came due to write down of assets in the Networks Division which has nothing to do with the Handset division of Nokia. Even though there was a drop of profits in the handset division compared to last year, it has performed a lot better than the Q1/2 2009.

Fair enough. But it still doesn't change the facts, for a company who's core business is the mobile phone market they have been letting it slip, mainly due to the Symbian OS. And now Blackberry, Palm and Apple are cashing in on it

apple's monopoly? nokia is in a nosedive?

guys, what is the name of the planet you live on? nokia is largest phone/smartphone producer in the world holding over 1/3 of world market. apple hardly holds even a percent.

I grew up on the other side of the world.. They hate Siemens, Motorola, Apple, BlackBerry.. the only phone thats extremely popular is Nokia.. and then Sony Ericsson..

but now I own an iPhone.. you got to hand it to apple. I've owned all those brands.. but this is the first phone I have ever enjoyed using. Just cause of the amount of options it had largely due to its apps.

Nokia and everyone else should have thought of this before.. only now are phones starting to evolve into the way we want.... and honestly, its largely due to apple..

A good example is the iPod and how it changed the industry!..

Btw.. i am no apple fanboy. I use a PC and Love Windows 7.. I enjoy all tech, as long as I can use it!

I'm in the same position here in Australia. Nokia are the leading brand of mobile phones.. and like this guy, i love PC.

However, This seems like an attack from Nokia to try to make up for their loss of earnings. If Apple did in fact use patented technology and refused to pay for it? then perhaps they should pay.

And as people have mentioned, Apple enjoys filing patent lawsuits for multiple things (the use of the piece of fruit apple in Woolworth's logo for instance)

I don't think even the strongest of Apple fans can deny that Apple may look like hypocrites.

dimithrak said,
I grew up on the other side of the world.. They hate Siemens, Motorola, Apple, BlackBerry.. the only phone thats extremely popular is Nokia.. and then Sony Ericsson..

but now I own an iPhone.. you got to hand it to apple. I've owned all those brands.. but this is the first phone I have ever enjoyed using. Just cause of the amount of options it had largely due to its apps.

Nokia and everyone else should have thought of this before.. only now are phones starting to evolve into the way we want.... and honestly, its largely due to apple..

A good example is the iPod and how it changed the industry!..

Btw.. i am no apple fanboy. I use a PC and Love Windows 7.. I enjoy all tech, as long as I can use it!


Hello?!? I got an iPod touch, so I know what I'm talking about. Of course all the smooth effects play such a large role in this. It shows you haven't been using it that long yet - the app store is a disaster!!! they just recently came out with cut, copy & paste. And I'm supposed to for it, because I have an iPod touch, not an iPhone. What an insult. Wait. I had a palm Z22 a few years ago. copy cut & paste was not listed as a new feature, neither as a basic feature, nor as a feature at all. It was expected that it was on there. You got to hack it to get the best of it. and for hacking it you lose your warranty. Wait, what? Yes. The different types of hacks even have names for them, they're so necessary. And don't tell me apple doesn't mind hacking, and that they have to "try" to make it impossible so that AT&T or whoever is happy, that is a pile of garbage - look at Palm - their device got hacked easily. Did they care? no. there aren't any of these extremely important features available only through hacking on the Pre. They were actually friendly to the hacker community.

While I'm usually on Nokia's side, and I hate apple's monopoly. but I think this is a little over the line. Nokia's patent is killing a lot of innovations. Patent should be technology centered, not idea centered. you can't patent space pen idea because you spent millions of dollars creating a pin-ball pen that works in space, and then sue someone's ass off because they sell $1 pencils in space.

It was noted in other sources of this story that every other manufacturer (like RIM, HTC, Motorola, Samsung, etc.) had long ago negotiated license deals with Nokia to cover these patents. However, Apple has repeatedly ignored requests from Nokia to even discuss licensing. So, perhaps Apple's arrogance is their own downfall.

noPCtoday said,
While I'm usually on Nokia's side, and I hate apple's monopoly. but I think this is a little over the line. Nokia's patent is killing a lot of innovations. Patent should be technology centered, not idea centered. you can't patent space pen idea because you spent millions of dollars creating a pin-ball pen that works in space, and then sue someone's ass off because they sell $1 pencils in space.

They are technology centered patents... :S

M2Ys4U said,
You can't use pencils in space anyway - bits of broken lead and shavings get into the equipment and break it.

Not to mention up your nose and breathing it in

Nokia spent over 40 Billion Euros over the last decade to come up with the technologies we take for granted today.
Apple should pay its fare share or stop making phones that use Nokia's patent; very simple.

zivan56 said,
Nokia spent over 40 Billion Euros over the last decade to come up with the technologies we take for granted today.
Apple should pay its fare share or stop making phones that use Nokia's patent; very simple.

What's your source for this?

Let's hope nokia makes a killing out of this.

Ideally so that apple can't afford to have those pathetic mac adverts advertised anywhere

Unlikely. Apple has enough cash to finance nearly any project of their choice.

Nokia on the other hand, is in a nosedive.

n_K said,
Let's hope nokia makes a killing out of this.

Ideally so that apple can't afford to have those pathetic mac adverts advertised anywhere

heh yeh, i actually just watched that overused garbage right before reading this :P

hotdog963al said,
Yeah let's hope so, I hate it when competitors raise the game with their innovative products!

Yeh fanboy #10343, suprisingly it's propeganda that you fall for.
The stuff in the adverts, is ****, and it's not true.

It's like me saying some restaurant is really good because they pass off dog meat as chicken and everyone loves the taste.

So you are denying that the iPhone raised the standards in mobile phones? I wonder why all of a sudden every phone manufacturer has started adding touch screens and widget-like applications to their handsets... hmmm... co-incidence?

hotdog963al said,
So you are denying that the iPhone raised the standards in mobile phones? I wonder why all of a sudden every phone manufacturer has started adding touch screens and widget-like applications to their handsets... hmmm... co-incidence?

Hehe i think the first Touch screen was HTC (who had succes) iphone had succes with 3G .. I have a iphone but i hate to have itunes

Go Nokia! :P

Talking about Apple contributing to the smartphone industry...let me think...oh yeah, revolutionary mms and cut & paste.

On a more serious note, if Apple has ignored calls from Nokia to pay and license the technology then it serves them right. Nokia is even bigger than Apple in terms of revenue and things could turn out ugly.

to be fair, the main innovation in iPhone is its design and user experience. Their hardwares are miles behind other companies, but user like them because of the smooth transition, browser (you gotta admit, it's got one of the best mobile browsers) and because people like to show off their "Apple Product". Most importantly, apple's marketing strategy is to create hype by giving user illusions that they are superior than the others.

Nokia make a loss in their last quarter, where as Apple sold the most iPhone's they ever have in any quarter.

I'm sure Apple won't be sweating over this much, as if it is around $400m as the article states. It's a drop in the ocean on Apple's ~$2bn cash reserves .

I'm curious as to what the patents are exactly.

noPCtoday said,
to be fair, the main innovation in iPhone is its design and user experience. Their hardwares are miles behind other companies, but user like them because of the smooth transition, browser (you gotta admit, it's got one of the best mobile browsers) and because people like to show off their "Apple Product". Most importantly, apple's marketing strategy is to create hype by giving user illusions that they are superior than the others.

I'd disagree only thing iphone has is different OS and marketing. Nokia's easily superior in general. Which once maemo 5 hits won't have any advantages over it besides itunes which we all know we can do without.

@ManosK : Yeah, Apple has contributed to the smartphone industry. Because you cite 2 things they haven't invented won't make this statement any more false. Good tentative though

Digix said,
I'd disagree only thing iphone has is different OS and marketing. Nokia's easily superior in general. Which once maemo 5 hits won't have any advantages over it besides itunes which we all know we can do without.

I think your forgetting about the appstore. A lot of people won't consider other devices until the apps catch up. Android is the second contender.