MicroSD cards - Life after WP7

Windows Phone 7

A lot of attention after the recent launch of Windows Phone 7 by Microsoft has surrounded the issue of expandable storage, and the way microSD cards are used in the device. Today, Engadget came across the full story behind what happens to a memory card once formatted for the phone, and why it becomes unusable in other devices once removed.

In designing the WP7 platform, Microsoft never intended for OEMs to ship devices that expose removable storage to the end user. Many OEMs use memory cards, rather than soldered-on chips to allow them to easily and flexibly create a variety of SKUs with different levels of memory, the official line was that such cards should be glued into place. At some point in the process, this message was forgotten by a number of device makers, and handsets such as the Samsung Focus are being marketed with fully-accessible memory card ports. 

What many people forget is the fact that the "S" in "SD" stands for "Secure". Windows Phone 7 is one of a very small number of platforms which actually makes use of these features. The reason that a card, once formatted in a WP7 device, becomes unusable in other devices, is that after the format, a random password is generated, which is then required to read from and write to the card. This is stored on the internal memory of the phone, and not known to other devices. Without the password, the data stored on the card is unusable to other devices, and the only operation they can perform is a fresh format.

Engadget discovered that the Symbian platform is one of the few others which implement the additional security features used by WP7, and have successfully used a Nokia N8 to erase a microSD card that had been used in a WP7 device, and restore it to a workable condition. This means that placing a memory card into your new handset does not mark the end of it's usefulness outside of that device, as many reports have claimed, so long as you can get your hands on another device which supports the security features, and is able to perform an erase on the card.

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I do not really see that much of a problem with the security that they have placed on these devices being that with my phone I have NEVER taken the Sd card out of it and likely never will until i replace the device, and THAT is where i have a problem, if i want to move to a newer device or mine has become unusable or whatever i cannot take my data with me they have locked it to that device. and i will lose all that data if i want to keep the card.

I currently work at a cell phone kios at a walmart. Almost everyone who gets a new phone worry about there pictures and how they can keep them on there new phone. with the WP7 I have to try and explain to a 60 year old non techie how to try and Bluetooth them over , (DO you realize how hard that is???) its so much easier to just move there cards to new phones and not loose any of there data. And yes they all seem to buy smart phones. yesterday i sold 14 phones and 7 of them were smart phones. thank goodness all were androids.

social_eng_specialist said,
Just one more reason NOT to buy a WP7!

gee lemmee fix that for you too:

Just one more reason NOT to buy a Samsung based WP7!

social_eng_specialist said,

No! I said it right the first time!


So Microsoft implements Secure Digital cards properly, and now everyone comes out of the woodwork to complain that they are following secure standards?

schubb2003 said,

So Microsoft implements Secure Digital cards properly, and now everyone comes out of the woodwork to complain that they are following secure standards?

+1

I mean, come on, this is really a non-issue

So what I am going to say will apparently shock MS.

Why the hell is there no option in WinMo7 to revert these cards back?

I'm not sure if it's already been discussed but...

The "pooling" technique where the memory card becomes part of the phone's total memory, can you still remove the card and place another one? Say you are on a trip and want to tote along a few extra cards to hold music, or you take a lot of pictures/videos and don't have immediate access to download them...granted the cards can only be used with that phone, but can you swap them and still be usable?

PeterTHX said,
I'm not sure if it's already been discussed but...

The "pooling" technique where the memory card becomes part of the phone's total memory, can you still remove the card and place another one? Say you are on a trip and want to tote along a few extra cards to hold music, or you take a lot of pictures/videos and don't have immediate access to download them...granted the cards can only be used with that phone, but can you swap them and still be usable?

Right now when you swap in a new card in the phone for the OS to use it/format it you have to do a hard reset and then it'll work. The same has to be done each time you pop in a "new" unformated card. If you have a pair of already formated WP7 cards though, they should work fine between then without having to reset the phone, well, a soft reset anyways but that doesn't undo anything iirc.

I can't be 100% sure on this though but I'm thinking that as long as they've already been formated and used on the phone they'll work normally.

PeterTHX said,
I'm not sure if it's already been discussed but...

The "pooling" technique where the memory card becomes part of the phone's total memory, can you still remove the card and place another one? Say you are on a trip and want to tote along a few extra cards to hold music, or you take a lot of pictures/videos and don't have immediate access to download them...granted the cards can only be used with that phone, but can you swap them and still be usable?

Ya this wouldn't work so well. It would be far easier to offload them to a netbook or just have them automatically upload to your SkyDrive.

GP007 said,

Right now when you swap in a new card in the phone for the OS to use it/format it you have to do a hard reset and then it'll work. The same has to be done each time you pop in a "new" unformated card. If you have a pair of already formated WP7 cards though, they should work fine between then without having to reset the phone, well, a soft reset anyways but that doesn't undo anything iirc.

I can't be 100% sure on this though but I'm thinking that as long as they've already been formated and used on the phone they'll work normally.

I am not so sure; my understanding is that the phone uses the space of the card, toghether with the onboard one to write the files the OS needs to boot and operate; this is the reason that when you add a new card everything is reset, the OS go back to a "Factory status" and all your settings and information wiped out. In other words, and again this is just my understanding, each and every installation is "unique", and there is not a repetitive scheme for file placement.

Wonder if this "security" feature will work as good as the NT operating system, whereby you can
boot to a Linux CD boot disk, and access the hard drive files bypassing the NT passwords.

naap51stang said,
Wonder if this "security" feature will work as good as the NT operating system, whereby you can
boot to a Linux CD boot disk, and access the hard drive files bypassing the NT passwords.

An OS is not a file system, you're actually complaining about NTFS, not NT (which hasn't been sold in more than a decade).

Moreover, you seem to be confusing encryption with permissions. I can take a drive out of a linux desktop and bypass it's local passwords on another Linux machine. Only with encryption (regardless of OS) will I not be able to easily read the data if I have phsyical access to the drive.

rtk said,

An OS is not a file system, you're actually complaining about NTFS, not NT (which hasn't been sold in more than a decade).

Moreover, you seem to be confusing encryption with permissions. I can take a drive out of a linux desktop and bypass it's local passwords on another Linux machine. Only with encryption (regardless of OS) will I not be able to easily read the data if I have phsyical access to the drive.

Bit of nitpicking, but NT is still sold, I am writing this on an NT OS called Windows 7, you may have heard of it

//Windows 7 uses the NT 6.1 kernel

The rest is about right though, the SD card is using storage medium encryption (which was not designed by MS at any rate) not permission sets. I can enable BitLocker on my hard drives, and you wouldn't be able to get past that as it is AES drive encryption, akin to what the SD card is doing

Sraf said,

Bit of nitpicking, but NT is still sold, I am writing this on an NT OS called Windows 7, you may have heard of it

//Windows 7 uses the NT 6.1 kernel

The rest is about right though, the SD card is using storage medium encryption (which was not designed by MS at any rate) not permission sets. I can enable BitLocker on my hard drives, and you wouldn't be able to get past that as it is AES drive encryption, akin to what the SD card is doing

BitLocker is a type of partition/file system encryption, this feature of SD card is hardware based, more like when you password protect a hard drive in a laptop at the BIOS level. The SD card won't initialize or be viewable to software/the OS without the password. Problem with accessing these WP7 phone cards in Windows could be as simple as software being designed to access the security features of the SD card/host, and with the proper password, allow the card to be viewable in a computer. There's the possibility that some PC SD card readers might lack support for the feature, and it might even require BIOS and OS/driver support before it can be used.

I do know that Linux already has some utlities available for using this feature, but it's limited to specific brands and models of SD card readers. Wonder if anyone has tried using Linux to manage this feature yet...

naap51stang said,
Wonder if this "security" feature will work as good as the NT operating system, whereby you can
boot to a Linux CD boot disk, and access the hard drive files bypassing the NT passwords.

Or take a Linux drive, install the FS driver under NT and read the Linux drive without any passwords or accounts.

I think you are confusing things here. What you are talking about is simply bypassing the ACL of NTFS, which is not designed to be 'secure', just like virtually all *NIX FS are not secure in this regard either. This is why you can take an NTFS partition from another computer and take ownership of the content from within Windows rather easily.

However if you take an NTFS drive that the user has used the inherent 'encryption' those files will not be accessible, even bypassing the NTFS ACL. (Something most *NIX FS do not have.)

Additionally, if the user has used BitLocker on the volume (a version of the NTFS encryption but for the entire parition), you would not be able to access the information on the drive no matter how you tried to access it.

With both Bitlocker and NTFS's file level encyrption, if you don't have the corresponding keys, the data is highly encrypted at a level suitable for FBI and CIA use.

PS If you think your Linux partition is secure and safe, um, you might want to research FS encryption a bit. Also NT (Windows) has a vast support of installable FS technology, so adding native support for any FS is just a matter obtaining from the FS seller or finding the OS project and loading the driver.

You can use remote wipe feature. Once you associate your phone with LIVE ID, you can then login to admin console online and send the wipe instruction to the phone. Quite easy to do.

BTW the SD Cards can be reformatted by inserting them to Symbian based Nokia phones. Someone also mentioned about being able to reformat them using low level format utility many HDD provider.

[quote=wrack said,]You can use remote wipe feature. Once you associate your phone with LIVE ID, you can then login to admin console online and send the wipe instruction to the phone. Quite easy to do.
quote]
Yes But does it wipe the SD card. As the artical says the phones dont have a way to format the card.

Gothic_Rebel said,
Yes But does it wipe the SD card. As the artical says the phones dont have a way to format the card.

Yes, it does. Everyone needs to stop thinking of the SD card as an add-in to the phone. It was never meant to be. When the SD card is formatted it becomes "Part" of the phone. Think of it like a dynamic disk in Windows; extending the space you already have, but still looking like part of the same disk drive. You're protected by the card being encrypted and unrecognizable in other devices in the first place, and then also by remote wipe being able to wipe out whatever is stored on it.

Gothic_Rebel said,
What if my phone is stolen, and i wish to erase the data on the phone. Will this remove the data on the SD card ?

Two things, first, if you lock your phone, then the data is inaccessible unless the perp can figure out the password. Secondly, and more in line with your question, yes the Windows Live remote wipe function will erase the SD card (not format, but clear the data)

Angel Blue01 said,
Today's reason to avoid Windows Phone 7.

Here lemmee fix that for ya:

Today's reason to avoid Samsung phones based on Windows Phone 7

Its funny. After explaining this "problem" with people their knee-jerk reaction is "Thats STUPID! Why would anyone want that?"

Then I ask them how often they swap out MicroSD cards between various devices. You just don't do it. First of all they are so small that they would be hard to keep track of. Secondly, people just buy the amount of storage they need, install the thing and are done with it.

I like how MS has implemented the MicroSD card as one big storage pool with the integrated memory. This removes the need for the end user to manage two separate storage locations. i can feel the Android users rolling their eyes...but guess what? Not everyone wants to geek out on their phone.

Shadrack said,
Its funny. After explaining this "problem" with people their knee-jerk reaction is "Thats STUPID! Why would anyone want that?"

Then I ask them how often they swap out MicroSD cards between various devices. You just don't do it. First of all they are so small that they would be hard to keep track of. Secondly, people just buy the amount of storage they need, install the thing and are done with it.

I like how MS has implemented the MicroSD card as one big storage pool with the integrated memory. This removes the need for the end user to manage two separate storage locations. i can feel the Android users rolling their eyes...but guess what? Not everyone wants to geek out on their phone.

Yeah, you're right. It's a very easy thing to lose honestly. A friend of mine took hers out and promptly lost it, along with all of the pictures that were on it. So, maybe it's better to be in the phone...

Vice said,
Windows Phone 7 - Taking us back to before Smart Phones were Smart.

Ya how silly of Microsoft to actually use the Secure part of SD, so that if your phone is stolen people can't just offload all your information easily. They should be more like Android, where a stolen phone is not only easy to hack, but heck just remove the unsecure SD card and steal the user's data. Because being able to have your data easily stolen is 'smart'. Geesh.

thenetavenger said,

Ya how silly of Microsoft to actually use the Secure part of SD, so that if your phone is stolen people can't just offload all your information easily. They should be more like Android, where a stolen phone is not only easy to hack, but heck just remove the unsecure SD card and steal the user's data. Because being able to have your data easily stolen is 'smart'. Geesh.

Sure... an encrypted card for an unencrypted phone. .........

Please do not start with the story that the phone could be wiped out remotely. Besides the fact that there are plenty of ways to block the process if you have sensitive information Laptops, Phones, USB stickers and any other kind of devices must be encripted by the users.

Is this the way that you delete all the information on your cellphone from abroad? You just need your cellphone to delete the SD card password and you are in the clear because all your info wont be accessible.. Or does the cellphone actually do a full delete?

Lachlan said,
Is this the way that you delete all the information on your cellphone from abroad? You just need your cellphone to delete the SD card password and you are in the clear because all your info wont be accessible.. Or does the cellphone actually do a full delete?

That's interesting. I wonder if that's what it does... It would be much more instantaneous than getting the device to go through the file system deleting everything...

I don't get why MS doesn't just add an erase SD card option somewhere? Symbian did so it cant be hard o.0 If your gonna make use of the secure features, a utility to erase and reformat the card seems like a pretty obvious app.

That said, seeing as the plan was originally SD cards would be glued in, it does go some way to explaining why the functionality missing. Imagine would be pretty easy to package in an update though?

Bag said,
I don't get why MS doesn't just add an erase SD card option somewhere? Symbian did so it cant be hard o.0 If your gonna make use of the secure features, a utility to erase and reformat the card seems like a pretty obvious app.

That said, seeing as the plan was originally SD cards would be glued in, it does go some way to explaining why the functionality missing. Imagine would be pretty easy to package in an update though?


Samsung went against what MSFT said and put the MicroSD slot in. This was never intended to be allowed.

Bag said,
I don't get why MS doesn't just add an erase SD card option somewhere? Symbian did so it cant be hard o.0 If your gonna make use of the secure features, a utility to erase and reformat the card seems like a pretty obvious app.

That said, seeing as the plan was originally SD cards would be glued in, it does go some way to explaining why the functionality missing. Imagine would be pretty easy to package in an update though?

They could add it now that this whole mess started BUT the original hardware spec made it (look at all the other WP7 phones) so that ONLY OEMS could access and use the card not end users. You have to break the phone apart to get at the card in many WP7 devices which is how it should have been. This wouldn't have been an issue if Samsung didn't get lazy and expose the Focus' microSD slot from the get go.

GP007 said,

They could add it now that this whole mess started BUT the original hardware spec made it (look at all the other WP7 phones) so that ONLY OEMS could access and use the card not end users. You have to break the phone apart to get at the card in many WP7 devices which is how it should have been. This wouldn't have been an issue if Samsung didn't get lazy and expose the Focus' microSD slot from the get go.

Considering that the Samsung Focus is the best selling WP7 device "smarter" seems more appropriate than "lazy"

Fritzly said,

Considering that the Samsung Focus is the best selling WP7 device "smarter" seems more appropriate than "lazy"

Yep, so smart that now people are blaming MS for their SD card not working....Genius!!!!

schubb2003 said,

Yep, so smart that now people are blaming MS for their SD card not working....Genius!!!!

Who is blaming MS about unreadable cards? People are blaming MS because of the lack of removable storage.
Besides the fact that the Samsung is the best selling one is a fact; I returned the HD7 and ordered a Focus.
Nice try though.

Fritzly said,

Who is blaming MS about unreadable cards? People are blaming MS because of the lack of removable storage.
Besides the fact that the Samsung is the best selling one is a fact; I returned the HD7 and ordered a Focus.
Nice try though.

Oooh ooooh, aren't the people always bashing Microsoft on here equating how best selling does not mean the best one?

They implemented a standard, and a security one at that and everyone starts complaining they adhered to the standard...pick a stance, the spec was simple, no removable storage.

Samsung broke that standard and now everyone is mad at Microsoft...they did nothing wrong, illegal, immoral, etc. They gave Samsung a spec, containing no removable storage, Samsung implemented it wrong, Samsung's fault. It is simple logic.

And yes people are complaining they can remove the card, put it in their PC and not use it, that is what the article is about, did you read it? Let me quote it for you:

"Today, Engadget came across the full story behind what happens to a memory card once formatted for the phone, and why it becomes unusable in other devices once removed."

schubb2003 said,

Oooh ooooh, aren't the people always bashing Microsoft on here equating how best selling does not mean the best one?

They implemented a standard, and a security one at that and everyone starts complaining they adhered to the standard...pick a stance, the spec was simple, no removable storage.

Samsung broke that standard and now everyone is mad at Microsoft...they did nothing wrong, illegal, immoral, etc. They gave Samsung a spec, containing no removable storage, Samsung implemented it wrong, Samsung's fault. It is simple logic.

And yes people are complaining they can remove the card, put it in their PC and not use it, that is what the article is about, did you read it? Let me quote it for you:

"Today, Engadget came across the full story behind what happens to a memory card once formatted for the phone, and why it becomes unusable in other devices once removed."

Security standard? A SD card that the legit owner cannot read.... and a phone without encryption? I am really impressed.....

Bag said,
I don't get why MS doesn't just add an erase SD card option somewhere? Symbian did so it cant be hard o.0 If your gonna make use of the secure features, a utility to erase and reformat the card seems like a pretty obvious app.

That said, seeing as the plan was originally SD cards would be glued in, it does go some way to explaining why the functionality missing. Imagine would be pretty easy to package in an update though?

Does the Symbian device use the microSD card as part of the storage area such as raid drives, or as a separate drive? If it is like a raid drive, it most copy what ever file parts that are on the phone flash that is on the microSD card to the device and other things before removal. That would take allot of time, or need a phone hard reset. Such as removing a raid drive from a raid set. At least one would think.

Fritzly said,

Security standard? A SD card that the legit owner cannot read.... and a phone without encryption? I am really impressed.....

Yep, no one uses AES or SHA anymore to encrypt:

http://robtiffany.com/windows-...t-your-windows-phone-7-data

SD has the encryption built in, Microsoft uses it, don't blame them for sticking to the standard, if anything, you should be complaining about the standard. Write apps that support encryption, and your good. Unless you are talking about the email encryption, please be more specific, encryption is a very broad base.

Fritzly said,
Considering that the Samsung Focus is the best selling WP7 device "smarter" seems more appropriate than "lazy"
To be fair, AT&T is much bigger than T-Mobile in the US. Also, the LG Quantum wasn't even released in the same week, and the HTC Surround is definitely a niche device.

My Samsung Focus purchase had nothing to do with the SD card slot, and everything to do with the fact that the LG Quantum has a physical keyboard that I do not want (and a LOT of heft); the HTC Surround has a speaker that would do nothing for me except add unused weight and thickness. Not to mention the Focus has the nicest screen on AT&T.

Well that's neat

If I take a card and put it in my computer formatted Fat32 and then put pictures on it and put it back into my phone, will it not read it at all? Does it have to be formatted from the device before the device will be able to read it? if so, that sucks.

I just wish that they gave the tech enthusiast an option that was opt in which would allow for such a feature.

warwagon said,
Well that's neat

If I take a card and put it in my computer formatted Fat32 and then put pictures on it and put it back into my phone, will it not read it at all? Does it have to be formatted from the device before the device will be able to read it? if so, that sucks.

I just wish that they gave the tech enthusiast an option that was opt in which would allow for such a feature.


No, it doesn't allow for that. The phone won't understand it.

Owen W said,

No, it doesn't allow for that. The phone won't understand it.

Blah, a phone which doesn't allow me to view pictures from an SD card that were put on there from a computer, is dead to me.

warwagon said,
Blah, a phone which doesn't allow me to view pictures from an SD card that were put on there from a computer, is dead to me.
Why are you restricting yourself to that method of transfer in the first place?

Kirkburn said,
Why are you restricting yourself to that method of transfer in the first place?

Because then I can take the SD card out of my Camera and put it in my phone, if I choose.

warwagon said,

Blah, a phone which doesn't allow me to view pictures from an SD card that were put on there from a computer, is dead to me.


The cards were never meant to be hot swapable, hell, they weren't even meant to be accessible. At any rate, you can still email photos, sync via Zune or sync over SkyDrive/Mesh

warwagon said,
Because then I can take the SD card out of my Camera and put it in my phone, if I choose.
How many people do you seriously think will want (or need!) to do this. That mostly means you either have a non-working camera or a non-working phone.

warwagon said,

Blah, a phone which doesn't allow me to view pictures from an SD card that were put on there from a computer, is dead to me.

I don't know of many cameras that use microSD cards Pretty much all of them use SD...there's a difference

warwagon said,

Because then I can take the SD card out of my Camera and put it in my phone, if I choose.

I do not use flash drives, it's called THE INTERNET. Upload files to a server (even your own) and access them anywhere- you can do the same with your phone. Use the same magical networking technology to *wirelessly* transfer files/media without effort. Who actually plugs devices in computers now- that's for chumps.

ZenVenT said,

I do not use flash drives, it's called THE INTERNET. Upload files to a server (even your own) and access them anywhere- you can do the same with your phone. Use the same magical networking technology to *wirelessly* transfer files/media without effort. Who actually plugs devices in computers now- that's for chumps.

Well I have a crappy flip phone from 2005. But I carry around my Wifi iPod Touch 4th Gen

warwagon said,
Well that's neat

If I take a card and put it in my computer formatted Fat32 and then put pictures on it and put it back into my phone, will it not read it at all? Does it have to be formatted from the device before the device will be able to read it? if so, that sucks.

I just wish that they gave the tech enthusiast an option that was opt in which would allow for such a feature.

Windows Phone 7 doesn't use FAT32 - it's old and very limited. Internally, it uses TexFAT (Transactionalised exFAT), and it will format the card regardless. It's not designed to support removable media, only expandable media.

Kirkburn said,
Why are you restricting yourself to that method of transfer in the first place?

Actually is a further option; WP7 is the one allowing you to use only Zune.

Kirkburn said,
How many people do you seriously think will want (or need!) to do this. That mostly means you either have a non-working camera or a non-working phone.
Smartphones typically have much larger and better screens than most cameras, and it is quite logical to want to take pictures from your camera and import them directly into your phone to upload them to facebook, e-mail them, or use them in other ways.

roadwarrior said,
Smartphones typically have much larger and better screens than most cameras, and it is quite logical to want to take pictures from your camera and import them directly into your phone to upload them to facebook, e-mail them, or use them in other ways.
That has little relevance to physically moving the cards. All that requires is file transfer, which is a different discussion.

Kirkburn said,
That has little relevance to physically moving the cards. All that requires is file transfer, which is a different discussion.

I would say "A functionality that WP7 does not have at all", and this is absurd.

warwagon said,
Well that's neat

If I take a card and put it in my computer formatted Fat32 and then put pictures on it and put it back into my phone, will it not read it at all? Does it have to be formatted from the device before the device will be able to read it? if so, that sucks.

I just wish that they gave the tech enthusiast an option that was opt in which would allow for such a feature.

As earlier posted, it does not work like that. Think of it as a raid drive, where multiple drives are read as one. They all must co exist together, not apart. Remember, the microSD card is one with the storage, it is seen as just one, even though there are two. It is like that. Using the SD function is another way of making sure you don't screw it up with some other device. Not that someone can't if they know how.

warwagon said,
Blah, a phone which doesn't allow me to view pictures from an SD card that were put on there from a computer, is dead to me.
While I do think it was an unfortunate decision to block removable media, I do have to agree with the others. Who does that with a phone? I can honestly say that I have never once considered it.

With that said, it would be a neat feature: take some pictures on your camera? Plug them into your camera and upload them from there. I assume the reason this feature does not exist is because they would be forced to give users a file browser, and the idea is that the 5 MP camera in the phone should be good enough (I personally do not even own a camera because I used my iPhone, and now my WP7).

However, to get at the SD slot is a pretty big hassle on the Samsung Focus and other phones, which should suggest that it's internal only. It's identical to why internal hard drives are not swapped in and out regularly by most people [that know how].

rm20010 said,
That's the first time I've heard of passwords for SD cards. Interesting...

It was actually their intended purpose. The security features of SD are quite comprehensive.

The day Neowin reported on the original 'issue' it was also reported on Slashdot where the first 5 comments were "well, yeah, duh, it's just encrypting them". Neowin's comments are "HAHA MICROSOFT SUCK HAHAHA HATE HATE HATE" etc. I've never seen such a startling contrast.

ascendant123 said,

It was actually their intended purpose. The security features of SD are quite comprehensive.

The day Neowin reported on the original 'issue' it was also reported on Slashdot where the first 5 comments were "well, yeah, duh, it's just encrypting them". Neowin's comments are "HAHA MICROSOFT SUCK HAHAHA HATE HATE HATE" etc. I've never seen such a startling contrast.


And I've never heard of /. not automatically bashing MS for something of the sort. Heh

Sraf said,

And I've never heard of /. not automatically bashing MS for something of the sort. Heh

That's true but for the most part it's just technology enthusiasts so when something as glaring as this pops up, cooler heads prevail!

ascendant123 said,

That's true but for the most part it's just technology enthusiasts so when something as glaring as this pops up, cooler heads prevail!

Good to know, i might have to lift my self imposed ban on that site and test the waters again (as it were)

rm20010 said,
That's the first time I've heard of passwords for SD cards. Interesting...
Honestly, neither have I.

Though honestly, it didn't make me the least bit mad, as I always wondered why they were called "Secure" cards when they seemed to have nothing secure about them...

Calum said,
It's great to finally see this issue explained properly. I'm sick of the lies.
While it is nice, you do realize the lies will still be spread?

People who are out to hate on Microsoft won't believe this, even though it came from Microsoft >.>

Mr aldo said,
While it is nice, you do realize the lies will still be spread?

People who are out to hate on Microsoft won't believe this, even though it came from Microsoft >.>

Why not ? Just try... Besides this did not come from MS at all.

Ryoken said,
The "Secure" part should be an option, so that users who want to can still use their card across devices.

Why ? WP7 is designed to be easy to use. and people don't really move their SD cards between devices. this feature is mostly there to avoid people takignout the card inserting it in a compuers and screwing it up so it won't work on the phone anymore.

since the phone doesn't use it as a memory card, but rather includes it with the internal storage as a dynamic disk. making the card transparent, and avoiding the annoying android thing where you have internal storage and the memory card. which regular users don't understand anyway.

Ryoken said,
The "Secure" part should be an option, so that users who want to can still use their card across devices.
I believe they kept it this way intentionally, so that media give them advertisement and business people realized it is more secure and jump on it. And if this is the case soon they will make "secure" from SD optional.

Shishant said,
I believe they kept it this way intentionally, so that media give them advertisement and business people realized it is more secure and jump on it. And if this is the case soon they will make "secure" from SD optional.

Well there's that, and the fact that the cards integrate into the phone.

HawkMan said,

Why ? WP7 is designed to be easy to use. and people don't really move their SD cards between devices. this feature is mostly there to avoid people takignout the card inserting it in a compuers and screwing it up so it won't work on the phone anymore.

since the phone doesn't use it as a memory card, but rather includes it with the internal storage as a dynamic disk. making the card transparent, and avoiding the annoying android thing where you have internal storage and the memory card. which regular users don't understand anyway.

Yes, this was one of the top complaints I heard about WinMo too. This should make it a lot easier for the general user. Though *I* like to take my card out and yank stuff off or add stuff to it, I'm not a general user, so I can just get used to using the Zune Desktop Software.

HawkMan said,
Why ? WP7 is designed to be easy to use. and people don't really move their SD cards between devices..
Speak for yourself. While I don't do that anymore now that I have an iPhone, I often did it between my old phone, MP3 Player, and Digital Camera.. It was nice to always have something on hand that works..

Owen W said,

Well there's that, and the fact that the cards integrate into the phone.

And that MS never wanted these cards to be end user accessible at all

At the end of the day, this OEM SNAFU will end up benefiting consumers, but for now it's a bit of a headache to MS

HawkMan said,

Why ? WP7 is designed to be easy to use. and people don't really move their SD cards between devices. this feature is mostly there to avoid people takignout the card inserting it in a compuers and screwing it up so it won't work on the phone anymore.

since the phone doesn't use it as a memory card, but rather includes it with the internal storage as a dynamic disk. making the card transparent, and avoiding the annoying android thing where you have internal storage and the memory card. which regular users don't understand anyway.

Would have been nice if instead they had an option for the OEM to include an external microSD card reader, by external I mean have it read as another drive or folder to get things off of, such as photos, music, documents from other sources, but data only. I don't mean outside the device. Just a thought.

Makes sense. It's good to have the option there for the phones as long as the user 100% understands that it will render there SD card useless in other devices.

I for one, if I got one with an accessible slot would slap in a 32gb card and forget about it. Who takes it out and switches it between devices anyway?

I personally like the fact that if someone manages to take the memory card out of the device, then they can't get at my personal information. Obviously, its probably more likely they would just take the device though...

dave164 said,
Makes sense. It's good to have the option there for the phones as long as the user 100% understands that it will render there SD card useless in other devices.

I for one, if I got one with an accessible slot would slap in a 32gb card and forget about it. Who takes it out and switches it between devices anyway?

The article states that you CAN use it in other devices that use the same security features such as the Symbian operating system.. So it doesn't render it useless with all other devices but it does not allow you to use it freely and access it in your computer.

I personally like the fact that you cannot access the files on the card. Think how stupid it would be if someone stole your phone and they could not get passed the WP7 password so they just popped out your card and tossed it in a computer to see what you had on there. The feature also makes business use a bit more secure.

dave164 said,
Who takes it out and switches it between devices anyway?

Hmm, lets think about that.

... Anyone that gets a new phone? What you're saying is that you'll never get another phone. If I bought a 32gb card, I want it to last at least 2 phones.
My current card has gone through 3 phones, and I intend to put it in my 4th next year.

Sorry, i'm not stumping up cash for a phone+card that will be useless to me in 1-2 years time. (Or forces me to buy/borrow another phone just so I can format it!)

What would be useful is someone brought out a program for PC that could reformat the card. Surely PC card readers have this ability...

Lachlan said,

The article states that you CAN use it in other devices that use the same security features such as the Symbian operating system.. So it doesn't render it useless with all other devices but it does not allow you to use it freely and access it in your computer.

I personally like the fact that you cannot access the files on the card. Think how stupid it would be if someone stole your phone and they could not get passed the WP7 password so they just popped out your card and tossed it in a computer to see what you had on there. The feature also makes business use a bit more secure.

You can use it in other devices but not view the data, just format the card.

Raa said,

Hmm, lets think about that.

... Anyone that gets a new phone? What you're saying is that you'll never get another phone. If I bought a 32gb card, I want it to last at least 2 phones.
My current card has gone through 3 phones, and I intend to put it in my 4th next year.

Sorry, i'm not stumping up cash for a phone+card that will be useless to me in 1-2 years time. (Or forces me to buy/borrow another phone just so I can format it!)

What would be useful is someone brought out a program for PC that could reformat the card. Surely PC card readers have this ability...

I would agree. OR, Microsoft could build into the OS the ability to erase the card as is apparently available in Symbian... OR, the ability to somewhere in the OS get the code so that you could transfer this information to your next WP7 phone for example...

Lachlan said,

The article states that you CAN use it in other devices that use the same security features such as the Symbian operating system.. So it doesn't render it useless with all other devices but it does not allow you to use it freely and access it in your computer.

I personally like the fact that you cannot access the files on the card. Think how stupid it would be if someone stole your phone and they could not get passed the WP7 password so they just popped out your card and tossed it in a computer to see what you had on there. The feature also makes business use a bit more secure.

Yes, I agree. I think that this is probably going to be a big selling point for business users... Now just to expand on it a bit with VPN support and such to really make them happy. lol

M_Lyons10 said,

I would agree. OR, Microsoft could build into the OS the ability to erase the card as is apparently available in Symbian... OR, the ability to somewhere in the OS get the code so that you could transfer this information to your next WP7 phone for example...


That would certainly go a long way to making a lot of people happier!
In the end, the consumer should have a choice, not be locked in.

Raa said,

That would certainly go a long way to making a lot of people happier!
In the end, the consumer should have a choice, not be locked in.

They might end up writing a format option into the OS, but remember that they didn't to start because you were never supposed to be able to get at the cards at all in the first place

dave164 said,
Who takes it out and switches it between devices anyway?
It'd be nice if you could take it out, stick it in your DSLR (for example), take some photos, then stick it back in your phone and upload them.

DigitalE said,
It'd be nice if you could take it out, stick it in your DSLR (for example), take some photos, then stick it back in your phone and upload them.

Who has a DSLR camera but no extra flash cards && who would break their phone apart to take a picture somewhere- you're stupid. that's stupid.

ZenVenT said,

Who has a DSLR camera but no extra flash cards && who would break their phone apart to take a picture somewhere- you're stupid. that's stupid.


Plus, who has a DSLR that uses SD cards?

//Yes yes, adaptors exist, but DSLR users are more likely to want to bring the picture to a computer first for post proc

Raa said,

Hmm, lets think about that.

... Anyone that gets a new phone? What you're saying is that you'll never get another phone. If I bought a 32gb card, I want it to last at least 2 phones.


This is your view yes.
But my SD cards are all fairly small. The biggest I have is 4Gb which is used in my Camera exclusivly.

Yes, when I get a larger one, then maybe I will want to swap it out, but with people locked into 24 month contracts, in those 24 months, the 32Gb you have today will be peanuts compared with what 2 years technology would be able to bring.

dave164 said,
Who takes it out and switches it between devices anyway?

A memory card reader on your pc is 1000 times faster than a usb cord running to your phone.
On my ppc, I would always take out the flash card and transfer videos/songs to it blazingly fast using a card reader.

ZenVenT said,

Who has a DSLR camera but no extra flash cards && who would break their phone apart to take a picture somewhere- you're stupid. that's stupid.


You really should watch out with the personal insults.

ZenVenT said,

Who has a DSLR camera but no extra flash cards && who would break their phone apart to take a picture somewhere- you're stupid. that's stupid.

What if one wants to take photos with a real camera, with a real lens, and yet be able to post them online on a photo site, well good thing one has an Android phone with a standard microSD card reader, using Photoshop on the phone one can make edits, and post them to the site for others to view instantly without having to log a Laptop Around as well. Later when one return from a trip, one can if needed make further edits. Would that be nice if it were true, oh wait it is. Did one need to be a power user, nope, just a little research. Wisdom works wonders.

Lance-Z said,

What if one wants to take photos with a real camera, with a real lens, and yet be able to post them online on a photo site, well good thing one has an Android phone with a standard microSD card reader, using Photoshop on the phone one can make edits, and post them to the site for others to view instantly without having to log a Laptop Around as well. Later when one return from a trip, one can if needed make further edits. Would that be nice if it were true, oh wait it is. Did one need to be a power user, nope, just a little research. Wisdom works wonders.

Yeah, wisdom. Sometimes an elusive concept. One would simply plug their camera into their phone using the USB cable they carry around in their camera bag. Reports are that early humans used iPods as portable camera storage since it was the smallest way to carry around 20 gigs.