Microsoft Bans 1 Million Xbox Live Accounts

It's being reported today the Microsoft has banned up to 1 Million Xbox Live Accounts. Fresh on the heels of the Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 release Microsoft has stepped up their attack on piracy by banning a mass of Xbox Live users. According to a report in InformationWeek, Microsoft has banned as many as a million players from Xbox Live for altering or modifying their consoles in order to play pirated versions of Xbox video games.

Activision's new Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 was released earlier this week, and InformationWeek has speculated that because pirated versions of the game appeared on multiple file sharing websites in before the games public release date, Activision may have put pressure on Microsoft which resulted in the Xbox Live account bans.

Microsoft said its "commitment to combat piracy and support safer and more secure gameplay for the more than 20 million members of the Xbox Live community remains a top priority. All consumers should know that piracy is illegal and modifying their Xbox 360 console violates the Xbox Live terms of use, will void their warranty and result in a ban from Xbox Live. We can assure you that if an Xbox Live member follows the Xbox Live terms of use, purchased a retail copy of Modern Warfare 2 and played the game on an unmodified Xbox 360, no action will be taken."

Over at the Xbox support page, Xbox Live Director of Programming Larry Hryb, also known as Major Nelson, has addressed some of the circumstances that could lead to a player's Xbox Live account being banned.

"Players who find their Gamertags banned from Xbox Live have wound up in that situation due to violations of the Xbox Live Terms of Use," Major Nelson wrote.

"The Xbox Live team monitors players for not just cheating, but also for things like threats, racism, profanity, and just being an all around poor sport and ruining the game for others.

"When a Gamertag comes up as violating our policies for online behavior, the person who owns that Gamertag is punished by being banned from the service. Keep in mind, this isn't just a ban on a particular game. This is a ban on the Xbox Live service as a whole, so you won't be able to go online at all during your ban. Initially, you may be banned for a day, a week, or depending on severity, permanently! Kiss that $50 goodbye."

While Microsoft has always thwarted attempts at Xbox piracy by banning Xbox Live accounts this latest round of bans is a 5% reduction of the estimated 20,000,000 players who utilize the Microsoft services to compete with other players online. Even with the Xbox Live bans players will still be able to play games on their Xbox consoles, albeit without the ability to take their games online.

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some say the ps3 has not been hacked to the point where it can play blu-ray backups. This is based on the fact that nothing has gone public. Don't be quick to rule out hackers who keep secrets to themselves.

I was going to mod my 360 this weekend but got too bogged down with other stuff.
This news changes nothing. We never, ever use the 360 anymore, so modding it will see it getting used more often.
Live sucks monkey testicles anyway, who cares if you get the console banned.

M$ should just ban the console and gamertag as well since those piraters can just transfer there hdd to a new unmodded/modded console and still be doing the same thing again. The way M$ is doing the banning is just making the banned 360's appear on ebay/craigslist/used 360 stores. Soon you'll have a stockpile of not really needed modded 360's. Most of them piraters think they don't need XBL to play there backed up games. Personally I need XBL for DLC, game patch updates for fixing glitches or whatnot and playing with online friends. List goes on with what you CAN do with XBL but I guess the piraters just want to play there leaked games early. So M$ bascially forcing piraters to commit fraud now besides modding there own consoles. Oh don't forget to add stealing for early leaked games as well. When will M$ learn... sigh. I also find how those banned are cursing M$ for banning them when they already knew the risks. If you don't like the product/company. Don't buy from them. Simple and stop bitching I say. No one is forcing you to get a 360.

Weird. I thought MS banned the consoles as well using their serial numbers/MAC address; that's what my friend said happened to his brother. Have they stopped doing this so-called "IP ban" (although it doesn't involve IP addresses)? It doesn't seem effective to just ban them from Xbox Live. They can still play the games they want whenever they want, who cares about XBL in their case. They save $50+ a year.

Microsoft thinks that will stop modded 360 or at least teach some of them a lesson, Unfortunately they're dead wrong. Just buy a new 360, mod it, swap that case with the serial number with the one you got banned with, put the warranty seal back where it was intact and return the modded 360. Microsoft is all about the $ sign, and not about advancing the science of computing, they create licenses and 10,000 if statements for buying a license.

*shrug* The games cost more and theres potential online subscription fees but they do get offset by the cost of PC hardware. Not that I feel PC gaming is anywhere near as expensive as some people make out given there really is no need to upgrade every 18 months, but it still has a fairly high cost.

Realistically gaming isn't a cheap hobby be it on the PC or a Console. Console you pay more for games and things like a decent home theatre setup, PC you pay more to get an initial system set up and have to put up with the fact many publishers see it as a second class citizen in the realm of gaming now days.

Personally I'm happy to own all the consoles plus a PC and having the choice but not everyone is in that position.

I had to buy a new 360 (Jasper) two weeks ago as my second Xenon 360 died. :(

The arcade version can now be bought for the cost of 3 games; considering that most pirates have probably copied many more than 3 games, it is a small price to pay to get back online.

Microsoft is one of the biggest companies in the world, with many years of experience in their field. You would be naive in thinking that they couldn't talk to the companies that manufacture their DVD drives and tell them to make the drive with chips that store the firmware in a ROM instead of flash chips that can be erased and re-written with custom firmware.

People have been flashing their drives for years and this is the biggest ban wave yet, just before MW2 comes out (the biggest and best selling piece of entertainment to this date) and just before the Christmas period. Perfect timing for a hike in sales and forth quarter figures much?

I support and pay for software that I know I will get my monies worth out of (I class that as at least 40hours of gameplay, £1 per hour seems fair in my personal opinion) and I paid £40 for Modern Warfare 1, £40 for Fifa 09, I paid £30 for the Orange Box on the Xbox and £25 for the Orange box on Steam! Thats how much I enjoy valve games. The list goes on.

Ultimately I can see why Microsoft are doing this, but I believe their intentions are selfish (to get people to buy another xbox and put money into their pockets) rather than to help the game developers. As I said Microsoft aren't stupid, they know people have been flashing their drives for years...

5% of all you people who commented here know what your talking about and have good points BUT the rest of yous, like 95%, are whistling Dixie !

For thoses 95% of yous, I have 2 questions for you,,,,,,

1. Are you really an XBOX LIVE player ?
and
2. If you were 1 among those 1 million that got banned, WHY THE HECK ARE YOU HERE TALKING ABOUT THE SO CALLED INJUSTICE THAT YOU SO DEARLY DESERVED !

I can only guess that anyone that got banned from the Xbox Live service and is here saying that MS is doing an injustice to you, Well, it serves you right, now doesn't it !

Consoles ARE being banned NOT accounts/gamertags. Yes, there is prolly a case here and there where someone who has alot of bad feedback, and reports for cheating and/or any number of the other reasons has been....suspended. But to say there is 1 Million Live Accounts banned is wrong.

Like +shinji257, I am also one to follow the Xbox Scene. Speaking of which, Microsoft Confirms 600k-1M Banned Consoles.

If it was truly 1M accounts being banned, it'd be alot bigger news then firmware flashed consoles getting banned.

Quick: I'm not defending anyone, just putting my opinion/info out there.

Here is some quick info:

*When your Xbox gets banned from LIVE, you are still free to move your HDD to a non-banned console without worrying about being banned again. You may need to recover your profile and format to get some game licenses working, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem.

*Microsoft always does ban waves around this time in November to do the obvious and to get the banned ones to guy buy new Xbox 360s (or ask for them for xmas). The ones banned, if they truly liked their online play (which a good 90% of them do, WILL go out and buy another Xbox 360. Also, the Gold subscription on LIVE accounts isn't affected from a console ban, so money will still be made and not all is lost.

*Pirates (not all), believe it or not still bought DLC and content on the marketplace. While yes it is illegal and wrong to just download a game and have your fun with it, they still were not completely screwing Microsoft or game companies over.

*When pirates say "This is our way of trying a full game out to see if we like it or not", that's just bull. The obvious, it's $6USD and some change to rent a game. Really...

*Someone has also mentioned some of the money earned also goes to security for protecting games. Well yeah prolly, but there was new security introduced recently...and it didn't last long. If you get passed what all the modders have done to the Xbox 360, Microsoft's security is great. But, when you have a substantial amount of people dedicated to breaking that...it's going to get broke. (This next is nothing bad on PS3, just an example) If there were as many people that had an interest to crack the security on the Xbox 360 (in all the different forms) on the PS3, the PS3 would be playing pirated games and have a whole mess load of crap on it too. (Again, PS3 owner too, just making an example)

So uh yeah...rambled on for a while didn't I? Meh, hopefully some where in there was a point lol.

They just need to serialize the games and require registration to play them online. This way your XBL account can only play games that are authorized to be played in the following ways:

On an xbox that is authorized to play that game
On a gamertag authorized to play that game (bring game to a friends house)
Offline with zero connection to the net. (no authorization, or registration)

This will end piracy for the online game world.

serial key>? are you joking me.. id go f***king mental if i had to enter a key everytime i bought a game on a console with a control pad! plus what would be the point in this when you have to pay for a live account to play the game online anyway?

nitroxhotshot - have you ever had to enter a key when using a game you bought off Steam? but you do have one. It's connected to your account automatically and you don't have to worry about it as long as you remember your username and password

In an ideal world, this would be the system.

yeh ive used steam before.. you still got to enter the serial from the game box though, which i would hate, even if it is once per new game.. steams a good ideal, but they should put some kind of unique layer on the disc which will assign to your gametag or something.. i duno, bloody games eh!

betax said,
They just need to serialize the games and require registration to play them online. This way your XBL account can only play games that are authorized to be played in the following ways:

On an xbox that is authorized to play that game
On a gamertag authorized to play that game (bring game to a friends house)
Offline with zero connection to the net. (no authorization, or registration)

This will end piracy for the online game world.


I see nothing wrong with that...be a great way to attempt to control the situation.

betax said,
They just need to serialize the games and require registration to play them online. This way your XBL account can only play games that are authorized to be played in the following ways:

On an xbox that is authorized to play that game
On a gamertag authorized to play that game (bring game to a friends house)
Offline with zero connection to the net. (no authorization, or registration)

This will end piracy for the online game world.

If it is made by man, it can be unmade by man.

From what I understand (as someone following the underground community) it is consoles that are being banned. Not the gamertags.

Yep, only modified consoles themselves are getting banned, not the gamertags.
They don't ban the gamertags, to encourage people to buy another xbox.

Guilty until proven innocent. This is like with Activation under Windows. It deactivates on legit users mostly for as minor a change as a driver update.

Foub said,
Guilty until proven innocent. This is like with Activation under Windows. It deactivates on legit users mostly for as minor a change as a driver update.



thats a damn lie and you know it. let's keep to the facts here shall we?

...Has there EVER been a case of someone's system being deactivated for driver changes?

Maybe, MAYBE for firmware patches, but that's different... and "deactivated" dosn't equal banned. it means deactivated... which requires a 2 minute call to Microsoft to fix OMG END OF THE WORLD GODS HAVE MERCY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wouldn't all of the banned players be able to continue playing online using xlinkkai or whatever it's called. Can't say i've ever used it myself (then again i hardly ever used live when i had a gold membership lol) but i assume it would work. Surely thats the pirates problem solved?

Jhaedee said,
Wouldn't all of the banned players be able to continue playing online using xlinkkai or whatever it's called. Can't say i've ever used it myself (then again i hardly ever used live when i had a gold membership lol) but i assume it would work. Surely thats the pirates problem solved?


Nope as if your ping is over 30ms in a lan game you get booted on the Xbox 360. It workes fine on the Xbox 1 though.

Eeither way MS loses because they've lost the income of their Gold customers and the banned people aren't going to go ut and buy new consoles. They'll have more free time to play pirated games.

thealexweb said,
Eeither way MS loses because they've lost the income of their Gold customers and the banned people aren't going to go ut and buy new consoles. They'll have more free time to play pirated games.



Wanna Bet? thats a very dumb statement. a lot of people dont buy content on xlive, i know i haven't. most people that owned an xbox and played on live know that, an xbox without live is like having a console without tv to output to. its really that important. Most people would just go out and buy another console, hence, doubling microsoft revenue on consoles. and even if they didn't thats still 1 millions people's money they've collected money for a service no longer avaliabe which equates to less stress on their servers = less maintence =profit. so i dont think they loose in almost anyway

Actually a very high number will go out to buy a new console. They have in the past and they will continue to do so. Many of the pirates can justify the cost of a new console by the fact they saved so much on games.

Must be just me that sees all those banned consoles as a waste of useful hardware. This "just go buy another one" mentality boggles my mind.

But this is just my PC bias leaking through. :P

There was an article a while back that broke down where all $60.00 goes for a game. Not surprising is the fact most of the money goes to marketing and the companies overhead and roughly $15 was what a company makes on a game.

The cost to make high quality games such as Modern warfare 2 is in line with big budget Hollywood films. Piracy hurts the game developer. Now, with that being said not everyone who pirated a game was actually going to go out and buy it in the first place, but the assumption is that if you want to play a game you should go buy it and support the developer. If you're a console gamer and you're not quite sure you want to drop $60.00 for a game go and rent it from a video store, if you really, truly like it then support the developer so they will continue to make quality games.

Or even download the demo first and try that, totally free, no rent money spent either.

And you're right about the cost, people forget that it's not just the cost of making it, but marketing it, plus devs also pay $8 or so per copy to MS for licesnsing iirc. It's only natural that as games get harder to code and so on, costs go up, so prices will to.

The best thing to do is either wait for it to drop, like I do for most games, or rent it and play it that way. If you don't wanna pay $60 for it that is.

Kinda funny because for a game like this, you don't really need to advertise extensively. They already have a huge following and most of the people who enjoyed the first game will definitely go out and purchase this installment.
Or even what the 1st reply said, play the demo and see if you actually enjoy it. But most people who already know about the game know what its about and how it plays (more or less) and will go out and buy it due to loyalty.

THIS POST IS TOTALLY FLAWED!!!

MS ARE BANNING THE CONSOLE'S THEMSELF.. NOT THE GAMERTAG, NOR ACCESS TO YOUR XBOX LIVE ACCOUNT.

IF YOU XBOX IS MODDED AND YOU GET BANNED, THEN YOU CANNOT PLAY ONLINE WITH THAT XBOX EVER AGAIN, HOWEVER IF YOU BUY A NEW XBOX YOU CAN THEN RECOVER YOUR GAMERTAG TO THE NEW CONSOLE - SO YOU ARE NOT KISSING YOUr �40 GOODBYE FOR LIVE, AS LONG AS YOUR CONSOLE IS NOT MODIFIED IN ANYWAY,YOU CAN PLAY ON WITH YOUR LIVE ACCOUNT.

THIS WAS CONFIRMED BY XBOX.COM SUPPORT

nitroxhotshot said,
THIS POST IS TOTALLY FLAWED!!!

MS ARE BANNING THE CONSOLE'S THEMSELF.. NOT THE GAMERTAG, NOR ACCESS TO YOUR XBOX LIVE ACCOUNT.

IF YOU XBOX IS MODDED AND YOU GET BANNED, THEN YOU CANNOT PLAY ONLINE WITH THAT XBOX EVER AGAIN, HOWEVER IF YOU BUY A NEW XBOX YOU CAN THEN RECOVER YOUR GAMERTAG TO THE NEW CONSOLE - SO YOU ARE NOT KISSING YOUr �40 GOODBYE FOR LIVE, AS LONG AS YOUR CONSOLE IS NOT MODIFIED IN ANYWAY,YOU CAN PLAY ON WITH YOUR LIVE ACCOUNT.

THIS WAS CONFIRMED BY XBOX.COM SUPPORT

Enough with the caps already!!!!!

1) Turn off Caps

2) Microsoft is banning accounts as well as consoles. If you violate the code of conduct, your account can be banned. If you console is modded, both your console and account can be banned, although they usually just ban the console.

Chrono951 said,
1) Turn off Caps

2) Microsoft is banning accounts as well as consoles. If you violate the code of conduct, your account can be banned. If you console is modded, both your console and account can be banned, although they usually just ban the console.

Yes live accounts can be suspended etc if you use a rude gamertag for example.. but in the banning of the modified xbox's this is not the case.. they are not banning gamertags.. just the console itself, so ppl can go and buy a new one and use their existing gamertags.

nitroxhotshot said,

Yes live accounts can be suspended etc if you use a rude gamertag for example.. but in the banning of the modified xbox's this is not the case.. they are not banning gamertags.. just the console itself, so ppl can go and buy a new one and use their existing gamertags.


Part of the reason for doing allowing gamertags to continue, is because of what i experienced.. my mate had a modified console, which had my hard drive on it with my gamertag signed in.. the console then got banned, and i was worried that my tag would have been banned, i then phoned microsoft and they said not to worry as long as you have a non modified xbox you can recover the gamertag.. and thats what i have done. all good.

Chrono951 said,
If you cheat on live with either hardware or software expolits, your account can be banned.

Yes.. thats true, but this subject is referring to banned xboxes... so thats not the case

Even if they just ban your console, what was the point of modding? You can't get achievements from that console, you can't go on live, and you can't get DLC or patches for the pirated games. The only thing you can do with your pirated games is play singleplayer.

Chrono951 said,
Even if they just ban your console, what was the point of modding? You can't get achievements from that console, you can't go on live, and you can't get DLC or patches for the pirated games. The only thing you can do with your pirated games is play singleplayer.

The point I was making is the fact that the title of the post says '1 million xbox live accounts banned' - its not the accounts thats are being banned, its the consoles themself.. so if anyone has been banned then they can go buy a new xbox if they want to go legit and recover there tag. Lots of ppl only get their xbox modded by word of mouth because they think free games great.. but truth is many ppl dont mind paying for games, its just the fact ppl hear FREE and jump for it.

nitroxhotshot said,

Yes live accounts can be suspended etc if you use a rude gamertag for example.. but in the banning of the modified xbox's this is not the case.. they are not banning gamertags.. just the console itself, so ppl can go and buy a new one and use their existing gamertags.

I would not go out and buy a new console simply to play it online is Microsoft banned my console. It's much easier to follow the rules and play i thin their rules and guidelines. Plus it saves me from having to buy a new console.

Glendi said,
That's just your opinion. You just don't know the whole deal of pirates... on why they do it.

Then would you please be kind enough to educate me as to why pirates do what they do?

Smigit said,
You can't possibly be implying pirates have some sort of right to steal software or a right to use it?

It seems you don't realize it. Most don't pirate because of your so called 'rights'. We pirate because of necessity.

Glendi said,
It seems you don't realize it. Most don't pirate because of your so called 'rights'. We pirate because of necessity.

Where's the necessity to play a video game?

I acknowledge Europe's lower salaries and higher cost of living. At no point is that morally justifiable to pirate a game. IF I was 100% not going to buy the game I might pirate it also, but I wouldn't get upset after being banned from Live. I certainly wouldn't come on a forum and try to defend my behavior.

Glendi said,
It seems you don't realize it. Most don't pirate because of your so called 'rights'. We pirate because of necessity.

LOL. Food, shelter? Yeah. Games? Not a necessity.

struct said,
Where's the necessity to play a video game?

I acknowledge Europe's lower salaries and higher cost of living. At no point is that morally justifiable to pirate a game. IF I was 100% not going to buy the game I might pirate it also, but I wouldn't get upset after being banned from Live. I certainly wouldn't come on a forum and try to defend my behavior.

I'm not getting upset because of getting banned at all. Just replying to the guys who say don't pirate the game.

And yes, I want to play games too. Just because I live in a poor country doesn't mean I can't play games. I probably have the same job as you but because I live elsewhere I can't enjoy the same life as you. I need to remove my everyday needs to buy a game. Is that fair to you?

In fact, I think you got such an arrogant way of thinking for trying to teahc me about piracy and morals.

Ricardo Gil said,
LOL. Food, shelter? Yeah. Games? Not a necessity.

And we wonder where RIAA people come. We're surrounded by them. Close-minded thinking. So using your logic, I should just pay for food and shelter and live a worse life even if I got the same job as you? I didn't know Neowin had such greedy members.

Here's a lesson in economics.

If more people pay for the game then the company that makes it gets more revenue.

The more revenue they are able to generate, the more capacity they have to offer a lower price per game sold.

It's called supply and demand. Pirates keep the demand artifically low which makes the price honest customers pay artificially high.

C_Guy said,
Here's a lesson in economics.

If more people pay for the game then the company that makes it gets more revenue.

The more revenue they are able to generate, the more capacity they have to offer a lower price per game sold.

It's called supply and demand. Pirates keep the demand artifically low which makes the price honest customers pay artificially high.

+1000

Thats exactly what I was going to say, just couldn't find the right words.

Plus, companies have to pay more for anti-pirating tech, which adds to the price of the software.

Also, someone please delete the duplicates below.

So thats why activision rasied the RRP of modern warfare 2 by £5 to £54.99/$90 because of piracy they wouldn't sell many copies?
Yeah right!

C_Guy said,
Here's a lesson in economics.

If more people pay for the game then the company that makes it gets more revenue.

The more revenue they are able to generate, the more capacity they have to offer a lower price per game sold.

It's called supply and demand. Pirates keep the demand artifically low which makes the price honest customers pay artificially high.

I live in a country where a game costs 1/4 my salary. What do you expect me to do?

acnpt said,
So thats why activision rasied the RRP of modern warfare 2 by £5 to £54.99/$90 because of piracy they wouldn't sell many copies?
Yeah right!

Thats exactly why, and thats also why the special editions weren't released for the PC either.

acnpt is correct. If anything this game is begging for piracy as the price wasn't reasonable compared to other games and that is when pirates come in with full force.

And PC games don't really follow that rule. They keep prices lower so that you will buy instead of pirating.

that, acnpt, and the fact that modern games are roughly a few hundred times more complex to code while still trying to fall into a price range that kids/teens/ young adults can afford. Price hikes on the biggest games only make sense, especially when there's a garenteed demand of a audience that has more spending capital.

Does it suck? Not for Activision, who made the AMAZING game and will be able to make more...so maybe not for you, the consumer, in the long run either. If the cost isn't worth it? Buy used...keeping in mind that buying used is most likely another very large contributing factor in driving up new-game costs, and is what's driving most developers to deliver DLC and digital downloads.

The costs are what developers need to charge, and are able to. It's not like companies walk around with boatloads of cash to just take baths in. Any profits they take? End up going out as paychecks for the people that DELIVER you those games or back into making new games for you to enjoy. Piracy? Contributes nothing and will, if let run rampant, kill an industry already starting to show itself as in trouble.

Glendi said,
I live in a country where a game costs 1/4 my salary. What do you expect me to do?


I would think that you have more things to worry about instead of buying games. Also, just because something is expensive for you doesnt mean you should steal it.

Thats like saying "A Lexus is very expensive for me, I'll just steal it".

Yet it sold the most copies on launch day of any other video game, and is expecting to sell 11.1 million copies before the end of the year earning $803 million.

I myself don't morally have a problem with anybody pirating games over £30/$49, if they can't afford it. However i'm not saying that MS shouldn't ban people.

C_Guy said,
Here's a lesson in economics.

If more people pay for the game then the company that makes it gets more revenue.

The more revenue they are able to generate, the more capacity they have to offer a lower price per game sold.

It's called supply and demand. Pirates keep the demand artifically low which makes the price honest customers pay artificially high.

ROLFMAO.

Adam Smith and the invisible hand failed because a very single concept :People are greedy.

C_Guy said,
Here's a lesson in economics.

If more people pay for the game then the company that makes it gets more revenue.

The more revenue they are able to generate, the more capacity they have to offer a lower price per game sold.

It's called supply and demand. Pirates keep the demand artifically low which makes the price honest customers pay artificially high.


Just because a company makes more revenue, doesn't mean that it is forced to lower the price of an item. We morally expect them to, but it's their call. If I make a lot of money then I'd want to continue making a lot of money. Reducing the price won't help me do that. Obviously, I'd want to keep the price as high as possible for as long as possible to make maximum profit.

Chrono951 said,
Thats like saying "A Lexus is very expensive for me, I'll just steal it".


However most people won't steal a Lexus, because they realise there is a victim, and much more effort is required, such as breaking into somebody's home to get the keys. Whereas piracy is seen as a victimless crime, or people just don't really care because they consider games companies to be greedy.

For the guy giving the lesson in economics: you are wrong. If pirates had an effect in the gaming industry (which they do), it would be keeping the price low. That is because they keep the demand low, and at an unlimited supply (the production cost of a copy of a game is relatively low compared to the selling price), the seller needs to keep the price low. If the demand increased, the seller would increase the price of the game. This is why when a game is old, they lower the price - because demand is no longer there.

Glendi said,
I live in a country where a game costs 1/4 my salary. What do you expect me to do?


If you cant afford a game then you cant play it, its as simple as that. Just because its there does not mean you have to and are entitled to play it.

exotoxic said,
If you cant afford a game then you cant play it, its as simple as that. Just because its there does not mean you have to and are entitled to play it.

I'm not saying I'm obsessed with playing games, but there are plenty who are. Salaries in USA are high compared to us, and on top of that games cost more here than in USA. It's a plain ripoff. I realize that by your morals, you shouldn't buy a game because you can't afford one... but if you really lived here and wanted to play a game badly (you tried it somewhere or saw videos), you'd never buy it.

I want to play it but I can't buy it. What's your solution?

Chrono951 said,
I would think that you have more things to worry about instead of buying games. Also, just because something is expensive for you doesnt mean you should steal it.

Thats like saying "A Lexus is very expensive for me, I'll just steal it".

Aside from the comment the other guy gave, your analogy is a bit wrong. There are cheaper cars than a Lexus... buying a Lexus would just satisfy your luxury hunger, because other cars do the same job. So if I needed a car, I'd just buy a cheap one that does the job.

Games don't work that way unfortunately... the ones that are entertaining are high, cheap games are crap and don't work (as in having fun playing them).

C_Guy said,
Here's a lesson in economics.

If more people pay for the game then the company that makes it gets more revenue.

The more revenue they are able to generate, the more capacity they have to offer a lower price per game sold.

It's called supply and demand. Pirates keep the demand artifically low which makes the price honest customers pay artificially high.

You should go back and take ECON101. Companies will charge what they can get away with--that has always been the case and will always be the case. It doesn't matter what the product is that is just the way it works.

that, acnpt, and the fact that modern games are roughly a few hundred times more complex to code while still trying to fall into a price range that kids/teens/ young adults can afford.

Are you kidding? Are you even a developer? Come back and let me know when MW2 has done something new and innovative that pushes the bounds of game game development and I will consider conceding that the development costs are 'roughly a few hundred times more complex to code'.

I'm not saying it isn't fun; it is, it's a great game, but from a game developers point of view there is nothing new here.

Glendi said,
I live in a country where a game costs 1/4 my salary. What do you expect me to do?

* Find a cheaper hobby

* Get a better job

* Emigrate to a better country

C_Guy said,
If more people pay for the game then the company that makes it gets more revenue.

The more revenue they are able to generate, the more capacity they have to offer a lower price per game sold.


Yes but they will put that revenue into their profits....consumers likely wont see it. Technically digital distribution should be considerably cheaper by removing the physical medium and retail outlets but time and time again we are shown that the lack of competition can lead to prices that are rather static.

Not condoning piracy, but theres more at play than the above.

I live in a country where a game costs 1/4 my salary. What do you expect me to do?
Get a new hobby I guess? Besides, you're wrong about there not being good cheap games. You just aren't looking, trying or are trying to justify the theft. Games don't get worse as they get older....pick up an older title from somewhere if the new ones are over priced.

C_Guy said,
Here's a lesson in economics.

If more people pay for the game then the company that makes it gets more revenue.

The more revenue they are able to generate, the more capacity they have to offer a lower price per game sold.

It's called supply and demand. Pirates keep the demand artifically low which makes the price honest customers pay artificially high.

you seem to make a good point, 'in theory'.

but in reality... look at it this way, say piracy completely stopped right now and games on average sold 500,000 to a 1,000,000 more copies etc etc... do you REALLY think they would lower the prices? , i seriously doubt it.

so based on that i don't think your point is true.

Companies will charge what they can get away with--that has always been the case and will always be the case. It doesn't matter what the product is that is just the way it works.

ain't that the truth ... that's pretty much the bottom line regardless if piracy existed or not. they just raise the prices as high as they can before they get to a extreme to where almost no one could buy/afford it. because as long as they can sell 'enough' copies they probably rather keep the price high vs lower it.

so while i admit 60 dollars a game aint the end of the world for most people. it can be quite pricey for someone who ain't living a fairly good lifestyle. like the low middle class or poorer type people. especially if you want to play multiple games as 60 dollars a shot can get expensive really quick.

and it's like someone else said... Piracy is a victimless crime for the most part (especially with large companies) because there is no direct measurable loss since it's all digital. nothing physical is stolen so it's aint the same as stealing from a store although you could still say it's stealing in a way but it's not the same type of stealing that everyone considers bad like going to a store and physically stealing the game from the store shelves etc.

The more important argument is probably that the typical response (as seen here) is 'get a new hobby'. If that person gets a new hobby then they would not be contributing to the developers and publishers by buying the game at all; they would simply just not (as it would not be their hobby); that makes their piracy literally victimless since the only other option they have is to 'get another hobby'. Are you guys simply so vain and entitled that you would rather other people not have enjoyment in life simply because they can't afford it?

I don't see where the arrogance comes from here. Don't get me wrong--I buy every game I play but I just think the entitlement complex a lot of people have here is just a childish "I HAVE IT, IT'S MINE, YOU CAN'T HAVE IT" attitude.

Chrono951 said,
I would think that you have more things to worry about instead of buying games. Also, just because something is expensive for you doesnt mean you should steal it.

Thats like saying "A Lexus is very expensive for me, I'll just steal it".

Thats not what he ment.

What he ment is "Why can you buy a Honda for the the price of a Honda and I can only buy a Honda for the price of a Ferrari?"

And, he acutally is right.

Shiranui said,
* Find a cheaper hobby

* Get a better job

* Emigrate to a better country

1. Sure, that's convenient coming from some guy who probably can afford buying multiple PS3s. Can you arrogance go higher? It's because of people like you RIAA exists and sues even poor people from poor countries.

2. I'm studying from computer engineering, I have a dad who is a teacher and my mom is a singer. I'm still 17, but I have cousins who have great jobs but we aren't paid as much as you buddy. We might have the same job as you and get 1/10 of your salary.

3. That's easy for you, unfortunately we need to get a VISA to get abroad... and we're not even accepted as citizens in other countries. What I can do is illegally stay in a country (wouldn't that be worse than piracy itself?)... or do green card lotteries and hope. Even though all this fault is of my government I have done nothing wrong to live here. But still I have rich people coming from rich countries talking to me about piracy and morals. That's what gets me angrier.

Smigit said,
Get a new hobby I guess? Besides, you're wrong about there not being good cheap games. You just aren't looking, trying or are trying to justify the theft. Games don't get worse as they get older....pick up an older title from somewhere if the new ones are over priced.

Yeah, right, I never made theft in my entire life except piracy. You're the one trying to find a way to kill piracy, but being such an arrogant won't help.

Why should I get old games when people like you can enjoy the latest stuff? What have I done wrong to live in a poor country?

Higher game sales do not equal lower prices. In fact, the best selling games stay the most expensive for the longest amount of time. Look at how long CoD4 was full price. Look at every first party Nintendo game. They always remain full price. Twilight Princess, a Wii launch title, is still full price. Poor selling games go down in price...

Not excusing piracy in anyway, but that logic was flawed.

Glendi said,
I live in a country where a game costs 1/4 my salary. What do you expect me to do?

Buy it elsewhere or simply don't buy it. I bet a car over there costs a lot more than your salary, do you go around stealing cars?

Ricardo Gil said,
Buy it elsewhere or simply don't buy it. I bet a car over there costs a lot more than your salary, do you go around stealing cars?

If I could copy a car, I would. Also, try reading some comments above. I don't like answering the same question a million times.

Glendi said,
Yeah, right, I never made theft in my entire life except piracy. You're the one trying to find a way to kill piracy, but being such an arrogant won't help.

Why should I get old games when people like you can enjoy the latest stuff? What have I done wrong to live in a poor country?


Actually no it was you that stated:

"Games don't work that way unfortunately... the ones that are entertaining are high, cheap games are crap and don't work (as in having fun playing them)."

I made multiple statements in that you either werent looking or trying OR were justifying piracy. I didn't say you personally was actually pirating but. If you aren't then good for you, the point still stands however that there are plenty of fantastic games out there for all different platforms that are not expensive. I'd find it impossible to believe that in the country you live prices are set based on fun factor and that games don't get cheaper with age or that you have no way to get games online via digital means or ordered.

Honestly, one of my most fond gaming memories was buying Baldurs Gate 2 for PC something like 5 - 6 years after its release and playing that, long after other games had gone all 3D ect.

Omni1
-I buy every game I play but I just think the entitlement complex a lot of people have here is just a childish "I HAVE IT, IT'S MINE, YOU CAN'T HAVE IT" attitude.

People are merely stating they should do it in a legal way. Again, I think the problem here is that people that can't afford the games are probably looking only at newer releases or whatever and are overlooking those titles they may be able to afford (even if that means they are on the wrong platform and should be using a PC or something).

No one is saying they shouldn't enjoy gaming, people are just judging them because they use their economic conditions to justify the theft of something which is largely considered an entertainment or luxury item. As above, I find it hard to believe that there isn't titles that are considerably cheaper out there, especially the amount of games you see on something like steam or at bargain bins for 1/10th the cost of a new release.

I also feel that if you can justify the hardware cost then you can probbaly afford games for it, even if its only a couple a year.

Oh you got no idea... if you think I live in a medium Europe country, then maybe your statement would be right.

I'm still shocked at how you call me justifying piracy (my reply was directed at this, and you said it before).

As for hardware, there are certain shops which sell it cheap, they aren't legal either (the hardware they get is stolen).

And btw, explain me this. Microsoft tried to make a building here in my country (Albania), but the government refused to allow them because if MS came here they would start make us pay, which we can't afford. Even the government decided it, there's no other way.

Still, we got you all telling us the otherwise.

sexypeperodri said,
Being banned vs. playing free games?
Its not that tough of a choice.

Being banned vs. Not being banned?
Thats the real choice.

I know which one i'd choose!!!!!!

God forbid you, ya know, PAY FOR YOUR GAMES and SUPPORT A MEDIUM That gives you hundreds upon hundreds of hours of entertainment. Jesus entitlement is going to be the death of creative endeavors.

This, ladies and gentleman, is someone who GETS it. Glad I'm not the only one on Neowin that doesn't suffer from a warped entitlement complex.

Eddo89 said,
Some people play games for online purposes only.

Hell, that is like 90% of the reason to play Modern Warefare.

Not for me it isn't, the PC version of MW2 has no dedicated servers and is a 9 v 9 matchmaking multiplayer.

I only bought MW2 for two reasons:

1. For the Single Player
and
2. To show my support for the PC format to IW

AgentGray said,
God forbid you, ya know, PAY FOR YOUR GAMES and SUPPORT A MEDIUM That gives you hundreds upon hundreds of hours of entertainment. Jesus entitlement is going to be the death of creative endeavors.



Exactly, I pay for games I like, RPGs that I know I'll get a good chunk of time off of I will get right away, other games that don't last long I just buy later for $30 etc.

The whole excuse that you pirate to "try it out first" doesn't work anymore. We have DEMOS you can "try" for free and for legal now to see if you like a game before you buy it or not.

GP007 said,
Exactly, I pay for games I like, RPGs that I know I'll get a good chunk of time off of I will get right away, other games that don't last long I just buy later for $30 etc.

The whole excuse that you pirate to "try it out first" doesn't work anymore. We have DEMOS you can "try" for free and for legal now to see if you like a game before you buy it or not.

Not all games have demos, and not everyone is willing to splash out £30 for a game just to find out it's absolutely abysmal. I'm also pretty sure I've seen studies showing that people who pirate games on average own more games than those who don't. (Own as in have paid for).

(Having said that, that probably isn't causative, just a link. But it does show pirates are normally willing to pay for games they love, whether it be out of guilt or desire of a shiney new box/convenient steam download.)

I know my steam purchases list is a damn site larger than any of my friends, and I still nab the odd game off t'internets when I'm low on cash or sceptical of the games worth.

sexypeperodri said,
Being banned vs. playing free games?
Its not that tough of a choice.

being banned IS a problem if you play games on 2 discs like Forza 3 as it would completely disable the 2nd disc (i.e. extra tracks/cars etc) because once your banned it completely disables the copying game disc data to the XBox360's hard drive which is the ONLY way to be able to use the 2nd disc.

hence, i am avoiding live like the plague since Forza 3 (used to be Forza 2 but since 3 is just better because of graphics increase extra cars etc) is (pretty much) the only game i like a lot on the XBox360.

but for games that are only 1 disc. this ban wont be THAT BIG of a issue although it's still best to avoid getting banned solely because it puts much less wear and tear on the XBox360's DVD-ROM drive because the game data loads from the Hard Drive instead of from the disc. the disc still needs to be in the system for verification but other than that it's all played from Hard Drive.

SUPPORT A MEDIUM That gives you hundreds upon hundreds of hours of entertainment

to me most games ain't worth the price they want. some are but vast majority ain't worth 40 TOPS. simply because 'most games' are not worth playing and even the slightly better than average games ain't worth 60 and you SURELY don't get 'hundreds and hundreds of hours' out of vast majority of games especially single player wise. there is exceptions i am sure, but on average without 'multiplayer' i think it's safe to assume you won't get anywhere near 'hundreds' of hours out of most games out there.

and for me personally there "MIGHT" be a handful of games on the XBox360 that are worth the 60 dollar price tag. (especially single player wise)

"to me" "my opinion" what a load of entitlement-driven crap. Get over yourself. They charge too much for you? DON'T BUY IT. Copying/stealing/pirating/bootlegging WHATEVER the hell you want to call it so you can sleep at night is not a moral right or privilege because you don't agree with some company's pricing scheme, and it's starting to get a little sickening to hear so many people assume it is. If you NEED to play the game, pay the price they want for it, or else don't. Get a better, cheaper, hobby. I hear there are places that let you borrow books for free.

ThaCrip said,
being banned IS a problem if you play games on 2 discs like Forza 3 as it would completely disable the 2nd disc (i.e. extra tracks/cars etc) because once your banned it completely disables the copying game disc data to the XBox360's hard drive which is the ONLY way to be able to use the 2nd disc.

If only you knew what you're talking about...

Forza 3's 2nd disc is DLC that gets installed when booting the game for the first time, it's not a disc you install to the HDD.

I love the "Piracy is okay because if you're on the fence then you need to pirate otherwise you risk losing money". Please, you take risks of not being satisfied with your purchase all the friggin' time but when it comes to games or movies or music suddenly its unacceptable. Here's a thought, play the demo, if the demo isn't available play somebody else's legally obtained copy, rent the game, watch some videos and read some reviews. If you're still unsure and you don't want to risk buying an abysmal game and are too cheap to rent then just don't buy it. Is it that friggin' hard?

As Section 16 of the Xbox Live Terms of use state:

You agree that you are using only authorized software and hardware to access the Service, that your software and hardware have not been modified in any unauthorized way (e.g., through unauthorized repairs, unauthorized upgrades, or unauthorized downloads), and that we have the right to send data, applications or other content to any software or hardware that you are using to access the Service for the express purpose of detecting an unauthorized modification.

and

Any attempt to disassemble, decompile, create derivative works of, reverse engineer, modify, further sublicense, distribute, or use for other purposes the Service, any game, application, or other content available or accessible through the Service, or any hardware or software associated with the Service or with an original Xbox or Xbox 360 console is strictly prohibited and may result in cancellation of your account and/or your ability to access the Service, and the pursuit of other legal remedies by Microsoft.

You have to agree to these terms of use when you sign up.

So, if you modify your 360 then you deserve to get banned.

neo158 said,
As Section 16 of the Xbox Live Terms of use state:

and

You have to agree to these terms of use when you sign up.

So, if you modify your 360 then you deserve to get banned.

+1

Xero said,
Thats a good way to treat your customers. /hugs PS3.

That's a nice way for the customers to treat Live.

Xero said,
Thats a good way to treat your customers. /hugs PS3.

You're damn right it is, I appreciate them removing cheaters and pirates from my game time. Stick to your PS3 please, thanks.

Xero said,
Thats a good way to treat your customers. /hugs PS3.

It is really. Play the pirate version to test it out but if you want support and live play then expect to pay for the real thing.

GP007 said,
I find it funny if you think Sony wouldn't treat you worse if the PS3 was getting pirated.

Yep you can bet they would do the exact same thing and so they should!

Don't want to buy your games ? Don't play then!

They bought the console. Pirating games affects the game developers not Microsoft. While I agree they shouldn't be pirating them in the first place, they should ban them from the game not the entire service.

And Sony doesn't do that, plenty of people playing pirated games just fine. Just not as widespread as few have enough space to hold the average PS3 game.

Xero said,
They bought the console. Pirating games affects the game developers not Microsoft. While I agree they shouldn't be pirating them in the first place, they should ban them from the game not the entire service.

And Sony doesn't do that, plenty of people playing pirated games just fine. Just not as widespread as few have enough space to hold the average PS3 game.

Good for Sony. Maybe the RIAA should take that approach..ban people from listening to certain bands they pirate music from.

/end S

Xero said,
Thats a good way to treat your customers. /hugs PS3.

Huh? How is it more fun to play with a company allowing cheaters? Explain.

The ps3 has not been hacked to be able to play iso's yet so pirated games havent been an issue so far. The ps3's os hypervisorhas done a good job in not letting unsigned apps run. What the future brings i dont know.

Xero said,
They bought the console. Pirating games affects the game developers not Microsoft.
Microsoft would be making money off the games being sold too likely not to mention if the XBox becomes a platform for pirates they run the risk of losing games to Sony. They could even lose retailer support if it got bad enough or they may at least try and sell Sony consoles before they do Microsoft ones since it'll be better for repeat business (EB games in Australia has refused to stock the psp go since they wont sell any software so I wouldn't say its completely far fetched for them to favor consoles where they are guaranteed software sales).

I'm sure a good deal of those pirates will run out and buy a new XBox anyway. In the end it doesn't really hurt MS to band them and may benefit them actually since they now need new consoles and subscriptions.

C_Guy said,
No, it's not. But it's a perfectly suitable way to treat criminals. You definitely deserve your PS3, bravo!

HAHAHAHAHA

Xero said,
They bought the console. Pirating games affects the game developers not Microsoft. While I agree they shouldn't be pirating them in the first place, they should ban them from the game not the entire service.

And Sony doesn't do that, plenty of people playing pirated games just fine. Just not as widespread as few have enough space to hold the average PS3 game.

Violating the tos gives Microsoft every right to ban them from Live, for one thing how likely is it that any of their games are going to be paid for if they have a chipped box?

Not to mention the fact that chipping it results in cheating being feasible, on an unmodified xbox that wouldn't be an issue at all. (In my opinion pretty much the only way in which console gaming is superior to PC gaming online)

And as you said, Sony don't do that because it isn't as widespread. Nowhere near as widespread in fact, so Sony don't have developers pestering them for a solution, do they?

nice i like what ms is doing we write games and apps to death the somo ahole comes cracks it and we are left in the air begging for some cash