Microsoft Ceases AutoPatcher Project

I had a call from Microsoft Legal this morning and they have told me that we are no longer allowed to endorse AutoPatcher on Neowin.

Microsoft will only allow updates to be downloaded from its own servers.

AutoPatcher started in 2003 and has been redistributed in some of the worlds best computer magazine cover CD/DVD's. I have no explanation for why Microsoft allowed it to continue unchecked for 4 years before making this decision.

I asked the representative if Windows Genuine Advantage had anything to do with it and he categorically told me this was not the case, he added that Windows Update for pre-Vista versions of Windows can now be accessed using Firefox and that the concern at Microsoft had more to do with the possible malicious code that could be redistributed with certified Microsoft updates.

We have no grounds to challenge the decision by Microsoft.

I'd like to thank the whole AutoPatcher team for their continued work, unfortunately none of the team is online, but they have been contacted via the AutoPatcher.com website by Microsoft Legal.

The AutoPatcher forums on Neowin have been disabled for guests and members.

Update: A Microsoft representative has told Neowin that he is looking into the matter and will try to get some answers. More to follow.

Link: Forum Announcement + Discussion
View: Announcement @ AutoPatcher.com

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Reasoning aside, AutoPatcher could well sidestep the legal roadblock by a simple but unproductive workaround. Microsoft argues updates should only be downloaded from the official Microsoft servers to prevent third-party modification, therefore AutoPatcher could instead of pre-bundling the updates, just fetch the updates from Microsoft’s own servers (HTTP downloads) to form a similar package on the user’s own computers at runtime. Might take a bit longer, but you can end up with the same package. As far as I know, you’re still allowed to archive Windows updates, thankfully.

http://www.istartedsomething.com/20070829/...wn-autopatcher/

Now if autopatcher still doesnt come back only the autopatcher team can be blamed. This is completely allowable by microsoft if you do it the way as quoted above. It would also save the autopatcher team significant bandwith.

End.

Wouldn't it be terrible if someone leave a burning brown paper bag stuffed with dog turd by the front door at Microsofts Redmond campus

This morning, i went to Neowin's AutoPatcher forum and i got an error. Then i saw the pinned news post. Microsoft has sent us a C&D order.
After reading all the news, i wondered: why were the forums closed and we didn't even got a email/PM? Wasn't enough just to remove all the download links? Why all the forum?

I want to say thanks to all of you who used AutoPatcher and are supporting us.

We didn't encourage nor support piracy. The programs that needed WGA weren't installed if the Windows version wasn't legitimate. Could people without legitimate Windows install all the hotfixes? Sure. And can anyone with a pirate copy of Windows grab a WGA crack and use Windows Update/Download Center and install all of the hotfixes + extras? Yes.

We were helping people with the trouble of updating computers in a automated way. We weren't doing this for money. All the time that we spent helping Windows users and didn't receive money. It was a freeware project.

I'm really sad and don't quite understand why Microsoft only now sent a C&D. We were (for some weeks) in conversations with Neowin for the possible move the forums to our own servers. And now this...

I've seen a lot of news coverage and while they do support AutoPatcher in theory and cover it in press their position is rather neutral.


Maybe now it's time for us to really move to our own forums.

Whilst I share many of the feelings that people have expressed here I can't understand why Neowin was so fast to close the forum section related to Autopatcher, unless the links within the threads would, of course, have compromised their position in regarding the notice given by Microsoft..? If that is part of the reason then, imo, in respect for both the creators and supporters of this invaluable tool then I would hope that Neowin would create an Autopatcher section again, where no links would be provided, but at least people would have somewhere to post their grievances on what has been done.
Under the constraints of what would be possible to post, and yet comply with Microsoft's order, it might seem a little pointless to create that forum section however it might just offer a symbolic gesture, until something else could be possible, to show recognition to all those involved in making Autopatcher the success that is has become.

Just a thought, or two.

I wonder if enough users revolted here about this decision, if neowin would take the same direction as digg?

As for the actual program, hopefully, Microsoft will take over it. Maybe build upon it and make it there own. Probably not though...

This is pretty sad. Myself and some other people (IT's in the Ontario gov.) use this piece of software to deliver patches to remote sites that cannot access LAN/WAN's and therefore don't have the speed capabilities to download updates. Microsoft has yet to offer a service such as Autopatcher, so we have been using it ever since I came across it. I will tell you one thing, I will be speaking to our Microsoft Canada contact in regards to this, that's for sure.

It is easy enough to search for the updates manually. Then you can add them into the code yourself. MS and their WGA can go stuff themselves.

I dont think that might worked on them, Nile.

But I m really sad to see autopatcher meeting its end. I like to used Autopatcher to get my customer PC done in no time by upgrading its patches faster. Window Update only causes a big problem only upgrading from fresh PC and totally dislike it when it comes to problem. Microsoft just want to make the customers looks bad by wasting their time on updating their crappy update and moreover not everyone in the world owned the faster broadband connections.

Shame of Microsoft and you piece of xxxxxxxxxkers!!! Autopatches should not end!

This has completely ruined my day.

As a network administrator this tool has proven to be a godsend on many occasions. This is especially true when no WSUS server is online and bandwidth is scarce. Autopatcher was always there to come to the rescue. I can't understand why MS would want this project pulled... I just don't understand it. Maybe MS is planning a similar project of their own?

I just sent this to MS, you can use it as a base message too if you'd like.

Dear Microsoft,

Recently your company decided to request that Autopatcher {see www.autopatcher.com} (A project ran/supported by Neowin) cease development, this is a terrible shame as the developers of this tool have contacted Microsoft themselves prior to this and asked if it was ok to develop such tools to which the reply was yes it is fine, and thus the potential stability, security and well being of windows XP system have stayed in prime condition for 4 years now whether having internet access or not. I am just one of the many hundreds of thousands of people who benefited greatly from Autopatcher, I was able to quickly and easily update many freshly (and I should mention legally) installed Windows XP systems even before they go online, thus thoroughly protecting the system from the offset. It would be a great shame to lose such a great administration tool when the best interests and whole concept are to protect users of your operating systems in a user friendly package. All I ask is that you please re-consider your decision and if necessary discuss with the autopatcher team on alternatives you would happily abide by.

Sincerely
Nile

I'm sure once this news hit Neowin that many e-mails similar to yours went out to Microsoft. Although I bet many of them won't sound as professional more like:

"OMGzors M$....are you people phreaking stupid or what???" followed by a bunch of words you can't say on Neowin

I'm not even going to try to think of how many legit Windows computers I've updated using Autopatcher. It just made it a lot easier.

lol this website is such a wuss. It's why I barely come here -- thanks to all the folks who helped me build my 1st PC in 2000' but man this place is in Tom's Hardware territory.

And what should Neowin have done? Do you have the bill to pay for lawyers? Do you even realize the relationship we have with Microsoft and how much both sides give and take? Have you also forgotten about us getting shut down in the past?

I guess it's easy to fight the man when you're not the one doing it.

bangbang023 said,
And what should Neowin have done? Do you have the bill to pay for lawyers? Do you even realize the relationship we have with Microsoft and how much both sides give and take? Have you also forgotten about us getting shut down in the past?

I guess it's easy to fight the man when you're not the one doing it. :rolleyes:

Wont's somebody PLEASE think of the children!

Gersson said,
Wont's somebody PLEASE think of the children!

The greatest sign of ignorance on the subject is when the OP replies with something sarcastic and void of any intelligence. My point is proven.

bangbang023 said,
Do you even realize the relationship we have with Microsoft and how much both sides give and take? Have you also forgotten about us getting shut down in the past?

Really? And what exactly is that relationship? Because from were I’m standing, it certainly looks very one sided.

You guys (at Neowin) have certainly given a lot. You help people a place to talk about and hype up a lot of Microsoft’s products. In my opinion, that’s free advertising, the kind that you can’t just go out and buy. You offer assistance on bugs and problems in THEIR software.

And what have they given you. Nothing. They don’t give you anymore information or help then the rest of us.

Doesn’t seem very give and take to me.

Access to information before release and the ability to keep it online. Invites to various press events that only go out to select media outlets. Direct communication with various MS personnel that are mid way up the MS food chain. It goes on.

bangbang023 said,

The greatest sign of ignorance on the subject is when the OP replies with something sarcastic and void of any intelligence. My point is proven.

No, it's a sign that I don't care what you think of my opinion

Gersson said,

No, it's a sign that I don't care what you think of my opinion

If you're not willing to engage in a discussion, then please leave.

Maybe they should contact my ISP to make my download bandwith free now
and tell MS to shoo away my friends who come to my house everytime they need to reinstall windows - and now have to steal my bandwith just to grab hundreds of mb of update :@

Wow, Im totally totally horified and gutted that this has happened. The auto patcher program has helped me out from the start with regards to repairing many of my clients machines, all with genuine software. Microsoft are bunch of sh**s .. Im sure a load of other independant computer repair people will be thinking the same thing. You ethier love them or hate them but they have the clout eh!!!
My thoughts go out to the superb bunch of guys who have worked so hard on this great bit of software. Im sure the project will live on all be it underground. My trailing thoughts are I wish I had been more active. And my last thought is THE QUEEN IS DEAD>>>>>> LONG LIVE THE QUEEN hope you catch my drift
Regards
Scoop

For all those who keep insisting NeoWin should mount some kind of legal battle, that really isn't practical; MS has more lawyers in their cafeteria right this minute than the total number of real legal opinions in this thread. If you are really offended by MS actions, put your money where your mouth is and stop using their products. It really isn't that hard any longer, Linux has matured greatly and does not take nearly the effort it used to in order to get a very productive desktop going. And if that isn't your brand of vodka, buy a Mac. I find MS behavior and recent products to be sub-par, so I moved on and have no regrets. And if your only argument is gaming, there are plenty of ways to get that fix.

So put up or shut up, all the complaining in the world won't make MS responsive to customers, anyone who has been at this for a while knows that.

Will the AutoPatcher people continue their work and make AP available for download on another site?

This is a shame. I've been using AP for years. It's a real lifesaver for fresh installs. Thanks for the great work the AP team did.

I love AutoPatcher! I just downloaded the Vista version for my new laptop yesterday I'm truely going to miss such a great program.

Also why cant the autopatcher team work with microsoft and make this maybe part of wsus v3?

"A software development kit (SDK) is available to enable administrators and developers to work with the .NET-based API.

Administrators can create custom code to manage both Automatic Updates and WSUS servers. New APIs allow administrators to collect hardware and software inventories from managed devices, create approvals for installation via the Add or Remove Programs dialog box, and integrate WSUS management with that of other management tools, such as System Center Essentials.

Developers can create management applications to integrate with WSUS or to publish third-party updates using WSUS infrastructure.
"

Maybe they did, maybe it didn't work out. Maybe those 4 years were spent discussing with Microsoft to make it better. We won't know. It seems obvious that eventually someone will find a similar solution or force MS to add it in.

billyea said,
Maybe they did, maybe it didn't work out. Maybe those 4 years were spent discussing with Microsoft to make it better. We won't know. It seems obvious that eventually someone will find a similar solution or force MS to add it in.

I dont think they even tried otherwise they wouldnt be in this mess. I am thinking that they could talk with microsoft and work this out. the tools are freely available.

The thing is all the people bashing microsoft over this won't help. People dont realise they are hurting autopatchers chances.

You gotta be kidding me?! All of my systems are using AutoPatcher and I'd just made the decision to go with AutoPatcher Vista on my two-month-old laptop last night for some extra control over the scheduled Windows Update download.

While my post above clearly laid out my belief that Neowin can't fight MS on this, I really do hope that this windfall grows. The Autopatcher team not only worked their butts off on this, but they also brought something to Neowin that other communities didn't have.

The fact that MS is looking in to this may indicate this was the legal team acting on it's own accord, though, just like when they had the entire site taken offline a few years ago.

I can see why microsoft is having them stop. autopatcher allows other software to be downloaded onto peoples computers in the disguise of an update from microsoft.

"Q: What are the advantages of AutoPatcher over Windows Update?
A: The main advantage is that you just have to do one download in order to have all the patches and add-ons, such as Sun Java, MSN Messenger 7.x and Windows Media Player 10. If you have many computers or if you format your computer frequently, it saves both time and bandwidth. With AutoPatcher, you can install critical patches offline, eliminating the risk of getting infected while using Windows Update. You can also come in handy when updating a friends PC, if he/she can't access the Internet (or uses a narrowband connection).
"

also from whats included in autopatcher vista

"add-ons

Adobe Flash Player 9.0.47.0 for Internet Explorer
Adobe Flash Player 9.0.47.0 for Mozilla, Firefox, Opera and Netscape
Adobe Shockwave Player 10.2.0.22
Google Toolbar 4.0.1601.4978
Sun Java 1.6.0-02 32-bit
Sun Java 1.6.0-02 64-bit (only for Vista x64) "

I am sure if microsoft didnt have competing projects to the other companies stuff included they wouldnt have a problem"

I am guessing if the autopatcher team took out the competing companies software then they would be able to go on.

All that software is mainstream though, it's available in almost every OEM machine anyway.
No, I don't think that's the reason.

billyea said,
All that software is mainstream though, it's available in almost every OEM machine anyway.
No, I don't think that's the reason.

also autopatcher does nothing about trojans being installed with the patches and then rolled into autopatcher. thats a huge problem. Microsoft could be blammed for that .

Just look at all the people and countries getting onto the lets sue microsoft bandwagon. No matter how much you hate this happening yoou really cant blame microsoft.

majortom1981 said,

also autopatcher does nothing about trojans being installed with the patches and then rolled into autopatcher. thats a huge problem. Microsoft could be blammed for that .

Just look at all the people and countries getting onto the lets sue microsoft bandwagon. No matter how much you hate this happening yoou really cant blame microsoft.


"security" is an iffy point for me, and I don't think that's really the reason either. Microsoft uses "security" as a blanket term for everything that is in their interests: from legal issues to reducing support calls.

majortom1981 said,

also autopatcher does nothing about trojans being installed with the patches and then rolled into autopatcher. thats a huge problem. Microsoft could be blammed for that .

Just look at all the people and countries getting onto the lets sue microsoft bandwagon. No matter how much you hate this happening yoou really cant blame microsoft.


Oh yes we can.
The "OMGTROGANS!" argument is a lot of hot air. Viruses are not being secretly inserted into Autopatcher by evil hackers. It's just a scare tactic to make the sheeple afraid to use anything but Microsoft's own update services.

Croquant said,

Oh yes we can.
The "OMGTROGANS!" argument is a lot of hot air. Viruses are not being secretly inserted into Autopatcher by evil hackers. It's just a scare tactic to make the sheeple afraid to use anything but Microsoft's own update services.

Yeah and where do the updates they put come from ? what if one of their machines is infected when they download the patches from microsoft before putting them into the autopatcher program?

Dont go stating their machines are secure, you dont know .

majortom1981 said,
also autopatcher does nothing about trojans being installed with the patches and then rolled into autopatcher. thats a huge problem. Microsoft could be blammed for that .

Just look at all the people and countries getting onto the lets sue microsoft bandwagon. No matter how much you hate this happening yoou really cant blame microsoft.

majortom1981 said,
Yeah and where do the updates they put come from ? what if one of their machines is infected when they download the patches from microsoft before putting them into the autopatcher program?

Dont go stating their machines are secure, you dont know .


Any modules that aren't digitally signed by the AutoPatcher team cause the program to display "UNOFFICIAL VERSION" in bold, red type.
The actual update files are also digitally signed by MS. Both of these steps can assure users that nothing "iffy" is being placed into the update stream.

My next computer is still going to be an Apple.

I just can't stand how Microsoft has been these last 5 years or so. I've had enough.

Microsoft is actually generating sales for Apple with all the BS it pulls. Good going MS.

Just out of interest- if you can't stand how Microsoft has been, how can you possibly stand how Apple has been? Their obnoxious ads aren't really that funny.

We have no grounds to challenge the decision by Microsoft.

That may be true, but I don't see why this should be Microsoft's decision to make. Have you considered just telling Microsoft something along the lines of "We don't care what you think, were are continuing the project anyway". If the code is freely available off of there website, I don't see how you could be successfully sued for copyright infringement. Sure, they might try to scare you off with a lawsuit, but I don't see them actually winning one.

billyea said,
You're imagining a world where Neowin has more legal power over Microsoft.

In a perfect system, Microsoft and Neowin should have the same legal powers. It should be the actual laws that determine guilt, not how big of a company you are and how many lawyers you have. Unfortunately, our system is actually so flawed that the big corporations often hire lobbyists to convince our country's corrupt politicians to pass laws that would never be passed if held up to a vote to the general public.

12Iceman said,

In a perfect system, Microsoft and Neowin should have the same legal powers. It should be the actual laws that determine guilt, not how big of a company you are and how many lawyers you have. Unfortunately, our system is severally flawed and allows things like this to happen.


Microsoft's side has it's point and counterpoints (point: Microsoft owns the updates and how they should be distributed, counterpoint: they waited 4 years to do it).

In the end, neowin will do nothing of that sort because it's really Microsoft's software that Autopatcher distributed all along. If it was Guild Wars patches or something then Neowin would certainly win (against Microsoft anyway, but I don't think they're that stupid).

All the kiddies need to stop complaining and start thinking about why Neowin did this.

Microsoft lawyers have billions at their disposal. Neowin has ad revenue. Geez, I wonder who would win?

Autopatcher was a great piece of software, but it was no secret that it was breaking some rules.

Online petitions aren't going to help anything so don't even bother.

A mix of genuine and pirated users used Autopatcher. I think it's safe to say that most of you on this page complaining that you can't use it anymore are using pirated copies of XP. I'm legit and used it mainly because I found it faster than going through Microsoft Update. I used it more often when updating friends or family computers that I had worked on.

Point is, Autopatcher wasn't exactly legal and Neowin was helping them distribute. If Neowin tried fighting this then I think it's safe to say Neowin might have been shut down for a small period. Neowin doesn't have the funds to go up against Microsoft, plain and simple. Any of you people whining and moaning would have done the same exact thing if you ran a site like Neowin.

All I'd like to know is why exactly Microsoft waited 4 years do say anything? I think it's obvious WGA is the biggest issue even if they're saying it's not. I wouldn't be surprised if Autopatcher was re-released as a version that has to install WGA first before using it and Microsoft didn't do anything.

I thought Microsoft once said they had no issues with Autopatcher? I know I've seen a couple people from the Autopatcher team talk about that and how Microsoft knew all about Autopatcher.

I see a couple things happeneing now:

Autopatcher turning into an underground type thing or some other little group of people will make their own software that's similar to Autopatcher.

If it turns underground, it simply won't be that visible anymore. It means more people miss out. In the end, Autopatcher is dead.
(underground movement would also make it warez and then we wouldn't be able to discuss it on neowin)

billyea said,
If it turns underground, it simply won't be that visible anymore. It means more people miss out. In the end, Autopatcher is dead.
(underground movement would also make it warez and then we wouldn't be able to discuss it on neowin)

I completely forgot to mention that if it went underground then that is what would happen. That was my point in bringing that up and I forgot to add that in But I can blame that on memory issues lately caused by a nerve condition. So I'm all good :P

I'm sure someone out there is already looking at the things being said about what Autopatcher may have done wrong to make this happen and they'll use that to make their own similar piece of software. Either it was because you could bypass WGA to install the updates or because of the competing products that came with it like Flash and the Google Toolbar. All of which were OPTIONS.

The more I think about it I honestly don't see what was illegal about it. Yes, you could install the updates and bypass WGA and it distributed Microsoft's updates, BUT you could also install WGA with it. If it were a tool built for pirates it wouldn't have anything at all to do with WGA and would have been more underground from the beginning.

Anyone on here knows how strict Neowin is when it comes to warez talk and if anyone on the staff ever felt this violated anything they wouldn't have supported it soo long.

They just keep taking away dont they.

Why in the hell can I not use autopatcher, BUT my Audio CD's can exploit the crap out of me?

Screw it. Im done with you Microsoft. Apple wheres that Leapord?!

iOMeGai said,
They just keep taking away dont they.

Why in the hell can I not use autopatcher, BUT my Audio CD's can exploit the crap out of me?

Screw it. Im done with you Microsoft. Apple wheres that Leapord?!

LOL.

Let's see how long it is before you STOP posting about XP. Because I'm sure you'll never switch, you'll just stay with Windows.

I can't see what the big deal is anyway to be honest.

Auto Patcher was a simply superb and was considered a standard peace of software
For the millions of MS supporters and there will be a everlasting scare left by its removal
And with the millions of trusted tech educated users of Auto Patcher any malicious code
Would be discovered quickly.
Unlike the root kits discovered and placed on the worlds computers by some of the worlds most trusted companies.

It's amazing to see how many people expect a member forum with little more than ad revenue to balk at the legal notices of the largest computer services and software company in the world, especially when they are blatantly and obviously within their legal rights. Without debating the validity of the AP project itself, I'd dare say that the vast majority of those complaining about the take down are indeed only complaining because they are using pirated versions of Windows. Of course the floods of "nuh-uh, I'm legit, I just used AP cuz my internet at home is slow" and other such excuses will amass but we all know that most of them are merely posturing and everyone, including Microsoft, are not so naive as to believe that a tool like this doesn't get used for illegal support of pirated version of Windows, bottom line.

Actualy, the pirates do use Windows Update. In case you hadn't noticed, the pirates pwned WGA a long time ago, and still do.

People used AutoPatcher because it was very convenient.
Ah, well, there's still Nlite.

It was great while it lasted for those who will miss it you can use Windows Server Update Services 3.0 - It's awesome!

I've never used AP, but I knew that this would happen sooner or later. I think it's easier to maintain a nLite/vLite copy of your OS anyways, in case you need to reinstall.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that AP now has Office versions. Up until very very recently (within a week or so I think?) AP only supported Windows updates. Now it includes Office, and now we see Microsoft getting sand in its panties. Coincidence? I don't know.

1. Autopatcher was a trustworthy source but I still virus-scanned any updates because that's just plain good common sense.

2. People will now rely on less reliable update packs by various authors out there.

3. Microsoft are probably going to release something similar.

Microsoft already has tools that meet the requirements of Autopatcher. The clear difference is that the updates you place on your own central server come from Microsoft Servers; Autopatcher cannot with 100% certainty claim that the patches that it provides are safe.

WSUS 3.0 and SMS 2003 and SCCM 2007

Steven said,
Microsoft already has tools that meet the requirements of Autopatcher. The clear difference is that the updates you place on your own central server come from Microsoft Servers; Autopatcher cannot with 100% certainty claim that the patches that it provides are safe.

WSUS 3.0 and SMS 2003 and SCCM 2007


Oh right, on top of that you don't mind investing "a bit of money" in Windows 2003 Server and Microsoft SQL server just to get WSUS 2003 running, right?

Jesus christ people - get some realism in what you're trying offer people as a substitute.

daPhoenix said,

Oh right, on top of that you don't mind investing "a bit of money" in Windows 2003 Server and Microsoft SQL server just to get WSUS 2003 running, right?

Jesus christ people - get some realism in what you're trying offer people as a substitute.

Just like everybody else you did not even respond to his secure comments. Autopatcher could be a great way to spread a trojan. If that ever happened microsoft would be blammed not the autopatcher team.

majortom1981 said,

Just like everybody else you did not even respond to his secure comments. Autopatcher could be a great way to spread a trojan. If that ever happened microsoft would be blammed not the autopatcher team.

Actually the AP team can show that the patches are genuine - they're still digitally signed by MS!

daPhoenix said,

Oh right, on top of that you don't mind investing "a bit of money" in Windows 2003 Server and Microsoft SQL server just to get WSUS 2003 running, right?

Jesus christ people - get some realism in what you're trying offer people as a substitute.

WSUS 3.0 doesn't require SQL Server. It runs just fine with the "Windows Database" and if you really want to install it on XP you can by doing a little bit of tweaking..

wow, this is sad, I was an avid autopatcher user. ****** messed up man.

again Microsoft makes a bad decision. hopefuly something can be worked out. if not it just goes to show you how people who help the windows community and microsoft get the shaft. Neowin is a huge resource, what's next??

people with slow internet connections are the one to suffer. There will be lot more vulnerable systems using MS product line
IMHO
looser = user
biggest looser of all = MS

Wow, I also never actually used AutoPatcher, but I can't believe MS would put a stop to it like this.

Hopefully after some talks this can be straightened out, hopefully

I always wondered why the team spent so much of their time redistributing patches, MS should have been doing it all along. I hope you guys use the knowledge you have built up over all this time for something good, would be good if it was some way to make Linux easier for windows users to set up or something so one day we could move away from MS.

I know that Microsoft 'called' Neowin, but was that on the phone? I understand why the links were closed, but did Neowin ask for written confirmation? I am wondering if the whole thing is a hoax. :ponder:

M2Ys4U said,
I've received two DMCA take-down notices for the torrent tracker. I'm assuming at this point it's not a hoax.

What I don't get is how they can send a DMCA take-down notice for a collection of files that they themselves freely distribute. And it is certainly possible for third parties to send take-down notices without the knowledge or consent of the party they are supposedly representing, so it is still possible that it could be a hoax, however unlikely.

roadwarrior said,

What I don't get is how they can send a DMCA take-down notice for a collection of files that they themselves freely distribute.


Even though they freely distribute the patches, they retain the rights to say who can distribute the patches.
And it is certainly possible for third parties to send take-down notices without the knowledge or consent of the party they are supposedly representing, so it is still possible that it could be a hoax, however unlikely.

This is true, however I'm sure it wouldn't have progressed this far if it were a hoax.

Well, I never used it but can understand all the anger. What's going to happen now is two more versions of this will pop up in the underground community.

At least on Neowin it could be monitored for quality.

Just M$ pis...off that others where being so sucessfull off of something they could be making money from. I wouldnt be suprised to see them come out with a similar product but this time under the M$ brand with WGA hardwired in to it. :mad:

that's normal and ok
a lot of people with piracy Win were using it but if you got legal Windows you still can use Windows Update ...
but that was good for network admins though

as far as I think, AutoPatcher guys should contact Microsoft and include Genuine Check inside - then would be exacly the same as WU and portable and great tool for network administrator ... try to contact MS about this idea

...but if you got legal Windows you still can use Windows Update

No, I can't (and nor can a couple of people I know also with proper legit Windows) because of the 100% CPU fault that is still around. Admittedly I can use MBSA / Offline Update but they can't. Every month I'd pop by with the latest AP updates on my USB stick and bam! done in one run without having to even go online.

Considering NeoWin is a free legitimate news portal for Microsoft/related news, it only seems right they follow Microsoft's request. It creates future good will, and opens the doors for future friendly-leaks and/or first dibs on official press releases. Isn't that why we are all here?

From the sounds of what was discussed on the phone call, it was pretty low-key, one guy chatting to another guy. Certainly beats the **** out of all the low-quality 'stop it now' letters posted all over the net.

ms should have dealt with ap when it first started but they didnt so ap was born and helped millions,the reason they chose now is because more ppl are using xp than vista and they could not figure out a way to try to force vista on us so they do this,this wont force vista anymore on us,we will just bite them harder and stick to xp,without ap on fresh installs your vulnerable to viruses until you download ALL those 50+updates instead of like 10.the malware excuse is just an exxaxeration and thats all and they want firefox users to use ie.

The real reason I was using Autopatcher is to speed up the update process of new computers at work. You download once, you update all 20 computers. Now, I will have to update each one through Windows Update. Downloading 20 times the same thing.

FYI, No, I can't make a ghost image because not all computers have the same hardware, and they don't have the same software installed depending on who the computer is for.

This is a bad move. Final.

Why would you need to download all the updates twenty times? I would have thought somebody who works in IT would think "ahh never mind, i'll just download what updates I need and just make a small batch file which would take me all of two minutes". Failing that you could just keep an XP disc up to date using nlite with all the updates slipstreamed.

I understand why they asked for it to stop and im sad its ending, was a great piece of work. happy it made 4 years though!

All the Microsoft fanboys here defending Microsoft yet again. Yet they have no problem with Microsoft stealing actual money from customers in overpriced software.

These same people here act like the autopatcher program was so illegal.... yet that makes them out to be hypocrites then for even visiting this website. But then again, this world if full of hypocrites.

I've never even used this autopatcher program, but its just stupid Microsoft doing this. They always have been pure thugs.

TC17 said,
All the Microsoft fanboys here defending Microsoft yet again. Yet they have no problem with Microsoft stealing actual money from customers in overpriced software.

These same people here act like the autopatcher program was so illegal.... yet that makes them out to be hypocrites then for even visiting this website. But then again, this world if full of hypocrites.

I've never even used this autopatcher program, but its just stupid Microsoft doing this. They always have been pure thugs.

So you gonna pay the legal fees for neowin right? Btw this has nothing to do with ms stealing money from us and OEM version of Vista Home Premium is only $110 not bad I would say.

TC17 said,
All the Microsoft fanboys here defending Microsoft yet again. Yet they have no problem with Microsoft stealing actual money from customers in overpriced software.


If you don't like the price, don't buy the software. Last time I checked, there were no laws forcing people to buy Microsoft products.

I can't say I am surprised...in fact it was a matter of time before they got around to shutting down AutoPatcher.

I've switched to Ubuntu, so this is neither here nor there as far as my Operating System is concerned. I do find the "how do pirates stay up to date" comments hilarious, tho: you can stay up to date by buying the OS you are running, or going open source. Pirating an OS does not entitle you to any updates whatsoever.

I would like to thank the team for all the great work they did: AutoPatcher was a great product.

this is too bad, Autopatcher was a wicked little program, it's too bad that you guys can't make it comply with WGA or something along those lines.


At the same time i'm really sad that it's getting pulled, i do see where microsoft is coming from on this one. I know many a folk with pirated versions of windows who used autopatcher to update their "legit" versions of Windows. It's too bad for those folks like me with legit copies who just despise using Windows Update as much as i do.

El-Diablo said,
this is too bad, Autopatcher was a wicked little program, it's too bad that you guys can't make it comply with WGA or something along those lines.
If they did, they'd lose 90% of their "customers". Everyone knows the popularity of autopatcher was due to people using it to patch pirated copies.

Windows Update was and is the only safe, secure, easy and legal way to download patches for Windows. Anyone who says otherwise is just making excuses.

7Dash8 said,
If they did, they'd lose 90% of their "customers". Everyone knows the popularity of autopatcher was due to people using it to patch pirated copies.

Windows Update was and is the only safe, secure, easy and legal way to download patches for Windows. Anyone who says otherwise is just making excuses.

I know that, and i understand, all i'm saying is it would be nice if they could.

I realize that Microsoft has no choice but to stop them, however saying otherwise is not making excuses, windows update is a **** poor solution to patching windows, updating to SP2 via windows update VS downloading it seperately from a Microsoft site is FAR faster than using actual windows update to patch your OS.

Say what you will it's too bad this piece of software has been stopped.

7Dash8 said,
Windows Update was and is the only safe, secure, easy and legal way to download patches for Windows. Anyone who says otherwise is just making excuses.

OK, if this is the case, than you try "choking" on Windows Updates from a ORIGINAL OEM copy of Windows XP SP1 fresh install, from a 56k modem connection. I bet you would yank your hair out, after the first day of downloads. That is just one of many examples. If the Autopatcher Team could compile all the updates into one .exe file every few months, or month, than you would certainly think that Microsoft has the same capability.

For those looking to mass download MS patches, you could always try Windows Update Downloader as well. Not packaged quite as nice as Autopatcher is/was, but it'll still get the updates downloaded to your computer. Here's a description right off their website:

So I'm pretty sure one of the first questions you're asking is What is the Windows Updates Downloader?

The Windows Updates Downloader was actually created through my long lasting addiction to the MSFN forums. Anyone who knows anything about MSFN knows that it's famous for being the number one source of information and help on the Internet for unattended Windows installations and Windows customizations. One of the great things about creating unattended Windows installations is that you can integrate all of the latest updates into the installation and avoid spending hours waiting for the updates to download and install themselves after a fresh installation. As time goes on since the last service pack was released, the list of Windows updates tends to grow to be quite lengthy.

Creating an unattended Windows installation solved the installation portion of the problem but all of the updates needed to be manually downloaded before they could be integrated into the installation source. With the quantity of updates quickly approaching triple digits, it was clear something was needed to speed things up. This is where WUD comes along.

WUD allows you to download all of the current Windows Updates using a simple interface. All of the updates are contained in Update Lists (ULs) which allows you to choose which updates you want for which version of Windows. Once WUD has complete it's downloads, you simply integrate them into your Windows source using one of the many popular tools such as nLite.

As time goes on the Windows Updates Downloader continues to evolve. ULs are available for software other then Windows and automatic installation of updates is available on supported versions of Windows. WUD aims to help power users, tweakers and system administrators speed up their unattended installs, network deployments and automatic updates.

Enjoy.

They will always find a way. This only inconveniences those of us (IT, sysadmins, etc.) who actually got some benefit from Autopatcher.

I'm gutted for the whole autopatcher team and 'us' .. It's a very sad today for the community.

Can we have an autopatcher Mac now?

Draje:

Such hostility. If this is a "breaking point" for you switch to Mac, Linux, or any other non-Microsoft operating system and calm down.

microsoft its not happy that we are not using its spyware and rootkit wga system and using this instead, a very sad day indeed.

This really sucks but nothing Neowin can do about it.
At least August 2007 Core was released and out there on the net.

This was a great way of updating a clean install without worry of vulnerabilities attacking you while trying to get the patches.

At least it will be a good hold me over (Aug 2007 Core) till SP3 comes out and still cut down downloading time via Windows Update.

I love how people tell us we should stand up to MS because they have no case. Does anyone realize they own the copyright to the code used in the updates and are, thus, allowed to determine who has the right to distribute that code? Stop being a bunch of tough kiddies, remove the ignorance blinders, and actually think for a second before posting. They own the copyright, so, according to the law, they have every legal right to tell us we need to stop. Simple as that.

Great post. Microsoft has more control than people care to admit, but that's the way it is. If you don't like their rules, feel free to use a different operating system. I've gotten too sick of arguing with people that think they own their copies of Windows XP software and can do anything on it they want because they shelled out 300 bucks for it. I'm not saying that argument applies in this specific thread, but the thinking before you speak methodology would be truly nice.

This is true but many people are angry that Microsoft was well aware of AutoPatcher for 4 years and suddenly wants to shut it off now. Clearly they have something similar planned themselves.

OK....Daddy Bill lol

*maybe some ambulance chasing attorney will see that for 4 years MS didn't mind you using your resources and money and should be compenstated*....Legal Consultation is free...just have to get dressed again and check.

to all the "you should have stood up and fought against M$" pfft thats brave of you considering its not actually YOU thats being threatened with Legal Action or your pet project of NW.net or autopatcher. Neowin made the right decision

their claim that it could lead to 3rd parties including "extras" into their legit patches is a valid one, if it borked a machine who would get the bad press & blame (yep thats right MS). Do you think any other retail software publisher would allow it? e.g. Adobe? NOPE, Apple? NOPE, need I go on?

If AP could be used to help OS pirates then way to go MS why should all us legit users pay for OS and pirates (read theives) get the perks that legit customers are entitled to?

Kudos for the AP team for their work over the years, they may even get work out of it


This is very inconvenient as using AP save huge amounts of time and bandwidth when setting up XP installations, before I hand them over to my customers.

At least I can still use the June release and then top them up on Windows Update.

Nice work Microbrains.

When WGA first came out Antonis spoke to somebody at MS who said that what was happening was fine and that WGA need not be implemented.

Today MS Legal has decided to shut the project down for whatever reason with no warning and seemingly no offer of compromise.

IANA Official Team Member, but having spoken with several people involved this is how it came down.

AutoPatcher never encouraged piracy - it simply bundled all updates into an easy to use and convenient package. If there are concerns about piracy then Microsoft should work with the team and come up with a solution (like forcing WGA to install, or whatever).

theyarecomingforyou said,
AutoPatcher never encouraged piracy - it simply bundled all updates into an easy to use and convenient package. If there are concerns about piracy then Microsoft should work with the team and come up with a solution (like forcing WGA to install, or whatever).
Microsoft does NOT have to deal with all patches redistributor. Microsoft already gives them for free to who ever goes to their Windows Update web site.

And YES, AP does encourage piracy by circumventing WGA wich is anti-piracy software method.

Like it or not, you must deal with it.

Pip'

Pippin666 said,
Microsoft does NOT have to deal with all patches redistributor. Microsoft already gives them for free to who ever goes to their Windows Update web site.

And YES, AP does encourage piracy by circumventing WGA wich is anti-piracy software method.

Like it or not, you must deal with it.

Pip'

AutoPatcher never encouraged piracy, in fact any requests for help with the tool using a pirated copy of Windows was replied with a message stating we couldn't help.

AutoPatcher is (was?) a legitimate tool to help Windows Users - it even included the option of installing WGA so I think you should STFU until you know what you're talking about.

Encourage piracy? maybe not. Help pirates? of course it does, you can't deny that. If AP had installed WGA before any updates were installed then no updates installed if WGA failed, then AP probably would have been allowed to continue, there only doing this now because they think it might get a few more Vista sales.

Pippin666 said,
And YES, AP does encourage piracy by circumventing WGA wich is anti-piracy software method.

It does NOT encourage piracy - it never has and never will. I'm sure what you mean is that it facilitates piracy - that is of course true but that is a very different point to the one you actually made. I don't know why you're so against the AP project and what reason you could have to be "glad" that it has been shutdown because it doesn't seem justified. You might oppose the way it can be used by pirates to get around WGA but surely it would be better for the AP project to change to accommodate that rather than shutting down altogether? AP is very useful to a LOT of people.

PS - I don't use it myself but I can see the merit to it.

M2Ys4U said,
AutoPatcher is (was?) a legitimate tool to help Windows Users - it even included the option of installing WGA so I think you should STFU until you know what you're talking about.
I see that some ppl are still angry when bad stuff are said about their precious software. That's so sad to read,... Well anyway, Ap is offering the option to install or not to install WGA? If they were in good faith, they would have made it a pre required installation.

Pip'

Pippin666 said,
I see that some ppl are still angry when bad stuff are said about their precious software. That's so sad to read,... Well anyway, Ap is offering the option to install or not to install WGA? If they were in good faith, they would have made it a pre required installation.

Pip'


I'm angered by the FUD you're spreading. AutoPatcher wasn't "You pirate Windows? Come use our tool!" as you're suggesting.

Yes WGA was optional, but Antonis contacted a Microsoft representative when WGA came out and was told this was perfectly acceptable. And I know that a non-trivial portion of the AP user base were probably pirates, but just because you can use a hammer to kill people instead of hammering in nails doesn't mean that hammers should be banned [/probably-worthless-analogy]

M2Ys4U said,
[/probably-worthless-analogy]
In fact it is. ... Neowin always been firdidding talks about warez download, piracy website, copyright infregment and such ...

But why in the hell did they let AP users the choice NOT to install WGA as it's CLEARLY the way out to pirate Microsfoft's WindowsXP operating system?

Pip'

Look folks. This enabled people to bypass Windows Update which is WGA'd to allow people to get hotfixes, however i do realise that a lot of hotfixes aren't WGA'd on the download.microsoft.com pages, this was possibly distributing ones that were. 2nd microsoft likes to push around the idea that you only download their stuff from them because of potential malware included.

move on people. There is nothing that can be done. Autopatcher saves me time going to download all the security patches one by one......... now it's back to square one..... I hope the next security bulletin will not have that much patches to patch.....

Well if Microsoft is going to do this they need to get off their lazy, greedy rear ends and release SP3 for XP so we can slipstream it into our install CDs. Downloading a million updates every time XP is installed is BS.

You can already make images with a Microsoft Product it's called WDS and RIS, couple this with a WSUS 3.0 or SMS 2003 or SCCM 2007 - Worrying about the time necessary to apply updates is a thing of the past.

dl0711 said,
Seems to me like Neowin is Microsofts B***.. and this has to stop.. I will donate $300.00 to the Neowin Legal fund..

Neowins ad revenue plus your $300.00 bonus Vs. Lawyers with billions at their disposal

Think about that

hey, i'm sad to see it go but as long as MS gives you a link to a gigantic file you can use to update your PC without being online, i'm all for a legit source.

Neowin dont have to listen to the Take Down Notice..
I think Neowin should leave it up since Neowin members & autopatcher.com users can donate money for neowin legal fees. and I'm sure if this gets the lights of the courts the courts wold faver on Neowins side since Microsoft did leave it for so long..

in order for Big Companies not to bully somone has to stand up to them.. and I think Neowin & autopatcher.com should stand up to Microsoft.. I'm also sute that worlds best computer magazines would also help out in the legal fees if need be..

:::::: NEOWIN & AUTOPATCHER.COM STAND UP TO MICROSOFT ::::::

It might help if there was case to be made first.

It should not be that difficult to see that providing patches for someone elses product is a legally dubious activity...

I 100% agree with you. Somebody needs to stick up to these big corporations and refuse to do what they say just because they are threatening a lawsuit. A lot of the time, I doubt they would even actually file the lawsuit to begin with. And even if they did, there are tons time of circumstances where they wouldn't even have a case.

This is a load of ****. I remember the last time they were in hot water the AP team said to MS legal "What do we need to do to keep this alive?" and it all had to do with WGA. As far as I know, you can't really patch illegal versions of Windows with it since a lot of the stuff that requires WGA still actually requires it!

This is really infuriating. Even though Neowin has dropped support for them, I hope that the AP team gives MS the finger and keeps chugging along. The AP was great... you let it run, check off the stuff you want, go out and do whatever, come back and your system is not only updated but tweaked with the various tweaks that are included in the AP. If it goes under water I'll be really disappointed.

i actually liked using this software it sucks when ur in aus and ur upgrading from an old version of windows to a new one... oh well any one say bit torrent

They gave you a take down notice for the autopatcher itself but would Neowin be willing to distribute the source code and or procedures used to create the autopatcher installer? Perhaps someone who cares less about Microsoft's legal department would like to continue in your footsteps. Even if not public, I'm sure some people want to continue updating autopatcher for their own systems.

Agreed.

I found Autopatcher to be a great way to get rare hotfixes/patches that I've never seen show up on WU (especially for XP!). I have a large render farm that I like to keep updated, and Autopatcher was very useful in keeping bandwidth to a minimum, yet keeping all of them running smoothly.

I hope someone else can pick this up in your place.

I never knew that Microsoft Update now works on Firefox. Although from testing...

Thank you for your interest in obtaining updates from our site.

To use this site, you must be running Microsoft Internet Explorer 5 or later.

it still doesn't?

SK[ said,#27]I never knew that Microsoft Update now works on Firefox. Although from testing...

Thank you for your interest in obtaining updates from our site.

To use this site, you must be running Microsoft Internet Explorer 5 or later.

it still doesn't?

They mean the WGA downloads - there's a genuine plugin that works for downloads from the download center in Firefox.

The IETab plugin is your best bet for actually using Windows/Microsoft Update webpages within Fx directly.

ckempo said,
They mean the WGA downloads - there's a genuine plugin that works for downloads from the download center in Firefox.

The IETab plugin is your best bet for actually using Windows/Microsoft Update webpages within Fx directly.

That's not what they said, even if it was what they meant.

he added that Windows Update for pre-Vista versions of Windows can now be accessed using Firefox

It was going to happen sooner or later 8)

Anyway... I understand what's the big deal about it and it was said in the article too.

Someone really really bad could open up the package, which is digitally signed by Microsoft and put some s*** into it.. repack and distribute it then.

So the Bad Guys could use those packages as a Trojan Horse basically :P If You get what I mean. No doubt the thing AutoPatcher team did, was all good, but there's plenty of morons who will take every oppurtunity to harm someones pc.

It's not like Microsoft servers are safest places on Earth, but it would be alot safer.
---
Don't punch me in the face, please :ponder:

So the Bad Guys could use those packages as a Trojan Horse basically

And those same Bad Guys who "could" would find their MD5 hashes don't match. So any torrenting wouldn't use their dodgy files. So noone would get it. So your tallking ********.

Oh, well, back to using the oh-so-secure windizupdate.com as WU gives me the 100% CPU crap on my XP installation.

AutoPatcher was a great product. I have been using it for the past four years. But Microsoft is right. AutoPatcher does violate its TOS. The AutoPatcher team checked with Microsoft. Microsoft has been aware of them and never took action. I wonder what Microsoft's reason is.

Anyway I wonder if AutoTweaker would be in the works???And what will happen to the Slip Streaming project??

Microsoft! get ready to see your servers in over flow!

This guys were helping you FOR FREE!! Distributing your updates ! Because you program like ****! And you don't even want free help!

Shame on you!

No, it allowed for illegal versions of Windows to be updated.

They don't care about bandwidth, it's not a problem.

Autopatcher was okay for ancient installs of XP on your parents computer, but mostly pointless with the amount of broadband about now.

The guys did good work, but it's not a huge loss.

Septimus said,
No, it allowed for illegal versions of Windows to be updated.

It just amazes me that some people always think in a negative aspect. I'm not saying you personally, but Autopatcher was a great tool for upgrading OFFICIAL copies of Windows. As many computers as I have built for people over the years, and in the area I live in where broadband is not highly available, a lot of these people still exist on a modem connection. This is where Autopatcher came into play, I could either put the whole Autopatcher update pack on a CD or portable HD, and update their machine entirely from a disk. I dare someone to log on to the Windows Update site and literally try to choke on all the updates from a OFFICIAL OEM SP1 Windows XP CD fresh install, from a dial-up modem. Of course you could slipstream updates onto the disk, but it was much easier to install from a fresh format, then execute the Autopatcher file onto the system. Sure & hell beats dealing with the Microsoft Update site on a 56K modem connection. Also, I am kinda wondering if this is yet another marketing tactic ploy from the Microsoft Marketing Team, to try to make people forget about Windows XP all together, and throw on that new operating system of their's.

This was to be expected over a matter of time. I would like to give a huge thanks to the personnel involved with Autopatcher. It really is ashame that Microsoft waited so long, just to take away all the hard work.

That sux... Well, it was too big for me to down anyways.

MS could at least come up with a program so one can actually backup there updates.

Just tried up the ms update through firefox and hey presto.....



Thank you for your interest in obtaining updates from our site.

To use this site, you must be running Microsoft Internet Explorer 5 or later.

To upgrade to the latest version of the browser, go to the Internet Explorer Downloads website.

Tantawi said,
I think they mean through the download center, not Windows Update!

I'm not so sure about that:

he added that Windows Update for pre-Vista versions of Windows can now be accessed using Firefox

he added that Windows Update for pre-Vista versions of Windows can now be accessed using Firefox

At least from my end I cannot. I still get the same stupid error telling me that I need IE or to start automatic updates. M$ is full of B$.

acnpt said,
Err, yes....did you not see the Microsoft Legal part?
If they didn't, there may not be a neowin.

You know, I've yet to see an ignored cease and desist amount to anything. If the legal department had any real merit, then they would just go ahead with the lawsuit (lawyers get paid by the hour). Since they don't, they resort to these shady "threats" against individuals depending on fear to get what they want. There is no legal grounds for the concept of cease and desists.

Microsoft DOESN'T want to go to court, because most judges would either dismiss this or maybe even rule against Microsoft therefore setting a precedent. The reason being that Microsoft allowed it go on for 4 years. What's changed? Once AutoPatcher proves they don't profit and prove they've never distributed malicious code and prove they've done it for 4 years, then Microsoft is just saying "well maybe they will do something bad one day". Judges laugh at that sort of circumstantial speculative nonsense.

Look at The Consumerist or even The Pirate Bay, they get hit with cease and desists EVERY DAY and nothing ever happens because they call all these bluffs and the lawyers sometimes even send apology letters when they get called on their bluff (because they know cease and desists are full of crap, and some of them are classy enough to respect those who actually UNDERSTAND their rights).

Now what Neowin is really afraid of is losing Microsoft's "favor" and that's completely different. If you are beholden to an emperor...

stgeorge said,
You know, I've yet to see an ignored cease and desist amount to anything.
...
Neowin has been shut down before due to a C&D to their hosting provider. So I guess you can't claim that it doesn't happen.

stgeorge said,

You know, I've yet to see an ignored cease and desist amount to anything. If the legal department had any real merit, then they would just go ahead with the lawsuit (lawyers get paid by the hour). Since they don't, they resort to these shady "threats" against individuals depending on fear to get what they want. There is no legal grounds for the concept of cease and desists.

No lawsuit has ever succeeded where a warning was not first given.

If you have no idea how the legal system works, please keep your comments to yourself.

8-n-1 said,

No lawsuit has ever succeeded where a warning was not first given.

If you have no idea how the legal system works, please keep your comments to yourself.

So you're saying if you murder someone tomorrow, you only need to be warned first? And that if you comply with the warning, you get off scot-free? Sounds like you really know how this "legal system" works. No, if you have EVIDENCE, you can arrest or serve summons to someone. Without EVIDENCE, you can only THREATEN people and that works as long as people continue to cow to those threats. Again, I point out facts like The Pirate Bay and The Consumerist. They have NEVER cowed to any cease & desists (TPB actually posts all of them online) and has anything happened to them? NO!

I know you will now bring up the raid on TPB, and guess what - the raid turned out to be an unlawful political maneuver by an overzealous police chief (pressured by the USA's goons) and they were back online by the end of the week!

markjensen said,
Neowin has been shut down before due to a C&D to their hosting provider. So I guess you can't claim that it doesn't happen.

Sounds like the hosting provider COWED to a legal threat, with no legal basis. That is no different... now did the hosting provider get taken to the court of law and lost a legal case where a judge ruled that Neowin had to be shut down? No!

stgeorge said,

So you're saying if you murder someone tomorrow, you only need to be warned first? And that if you comply with the warning, you get off scot-free? Sounds like you really know how this "legal system" works. No, if you have EVIDENCE, you can arrest or serve summons to someone. Without EVIDENCE, you can only THREATEN people and that works as long as people continue to cow to those threats. Again, I point out facts like The Pirate Bay and The Consumerist. They have NEVER cowed to any cease & desists (TPB actually posts all of them online) and has anything happened to them? NO!

I know you will now bring up the raid on TPB, and guess what - the raid turned out to be an unlawful political maneuver by an overzealous police chief (pressured by the USA's goons) and they were back online by the end of the week!

The Pirate Bay doesn't actually host illegal content, only metafiles (.torrent files). That means that technically, they're not breaking the law. AutoPatcher hosts and distributes patches that is the intellectual property of Microsoft; therefore, Microsoft is within their right to enforce a cease-and-desist notice.

Never did like autopatcher and I also can't believe MS let it go this long.

You know the dude was lieing(?) through his teeth when he said it had nothing to do with wga.

Its a bit sad they waited all this time before stopping the project :(

I'd just like to say thanks to the AutoPatcher team -- you did a great job I know I used AP a lot when rebuilding machines.

AutoPatcher violates the TOS, that we were able to endorse the redistribution of the free updates via AutoPatcher for as long as 4 years without Microsoft intervention is a feat in itself.

We have no choice on the matter.

Neobond said,
AutoPatcher violates the TOS, that we were able to endorse the redistribution of the free updates via AutoPatcher for as long as 4 years without Microsoft intervention is a feat in itself.

We have no choice on the matter.

What, they were charging for the autopatcher? Would it "violate" the TOS if you switched over to Linux?

Neobond said,
AutoPatcher violates the TOS, that we were able to endorse the redistribution of the free updates via AutoPatcher for as long as 4 years without Microsoft intervention is a feat in itself.

We have no choice on the matter.

Oh horse ****. I would have politely said "Sure, right away." and then not have done what you guys did. Autopatcher makes no monetary gain, or any thing else, it's just like the tweaks, patches, and everything else out there for Windows. Only difference is it is MS updates being compiled by a little development team. Hoodaha.

I'm sorry but Neowin was just definitely served a big "Do what we say or else" by Microsoft. And no, I don't care about the TOS EULA or what have you those things become damn null and void on individual cases like this. Also, along with that this is will be hopefully a big mistake for Microsoft, and I hope that team fights them.

And it didn't cease any thing autopatcher will just go deeper and underground. Unfortunately this will just make it harder for people to aquire it.

I don't even ****ing use Autopatcher.

Epimetheus said,

Oh horse ****. I would have politely said "Sure, right away." and then not have done what you guys did. Autopatcher makes no monetary gain, or any thing else, it's just like the tweaks, patches, and everything else out there for Windows. Only difference is it is MS updates being compiled by a little development team. Hoodaha.

I'm sorry but Neowin was just definitely served a big "Do what we say or else" by Microsoft. And no, I don't care about the TOS EULA or what have you those things become damn null and void on individual cases like this. Also, along with that this is will be hopefully a big mistake for Microsoft, and I hope that team fights them.

And it didn't cease any thing autopatcher will just go deeper and underground. Unfortunately this will just make it harder for people to aquire it.

I don't even ****ing use Autopatcher.

Internet Tough Guy FTW!!

Oh horse ****. I would have politely said "Sure, right away." and then not have done what you guys did. Autopatcher makes no monetary gain, or any thing else, it's just like the tweaks, patches, and everything else out there for Windows. Only difference is it is MS updates being compiled by a little development team. Hoodaha.

I'm sorry but Neowin was just definitely served a big "Do what we say or else" by Microsoft. And no, I don't care about the TOS EULA or what have you those things become damn null and void on individual cases like this. Also, along with that this is will be hopefully a big mistake for Microsoft, and I hope that team fights them.

Are you volunteering to pay for the attorney fees?

Epimetheus said,
Oh horse ****. I would have politely said "Sure, right away." and then not have done what you guys did. Autopatcher makes no monetary gain, or any thing else, it's just like the tweaks, patches, and everything else out there for Windows. Only difference is it is MS updates being compiled by a little development team. Hoodaha.

I'm sorry but Neowin was just definitely served a big "Do what we say or else" by Microsoft. And no, I don't care about the TOS EULA or what have you those things become damn null and void on individual cases like this. Also, along with that this is will be hopefully a big mistake for Microsoft, and I hope that team fights them.

And it didn't cease any thing autopatcher will just go deeper and underground. Unfortunately this will just make it harder for people to aquire it.

I don't even ****ing use Autopatcher.


Let me guess... you've never even seen what it costs to hire an attorney, let alone take the case all the way to a hearing, right?

Epimetheus said,
I don't even ****ing use Autopatcher.

Then why are you 'fighting the fight' here in the comment space? It's pretty apparent Neowin isn't pleasing you, which is why you're so anxious to take a bite out of the staff and the way they do things, but why on a topic you shouldn't even care about?

You must be really, really bored.

This really isn't surprising. Microsoft doesn't want it's updates being distributed by a third party, unless its through WSUS on a corporate lan. If there was Autopatcher for Mac OS X, Apple would probably do the same thing....

Tekmaven said,
This really isn't surprising. Microsoft doesn't want it's updates being distributed by a third party, unless its through WSUS on a corporate lan. If there was Autopatcher for Mac OS X, Apple would probably do the same thing....

There is a flaw in that logic concerning Apple. Every few months Apple releases an all inclusive update to their OS so there is no need for an auto patcher. And even some of their minor security patches include all minor updates that have happened since the large update. Even Microsoft's Mac team is using this philosophy in their releases of Office. Their Office 11.3.5 update included SP1 (11.1.0), SP2 (11.2.0) and SP3 (11.3.0) and all minor updates came after them. My question is why doesn't the Windows team do this? it has been over 3 years since SP2 for XP came out. We need a new SP.

Like i said on the autopatcher.com website, all corporations should bill Microsoft for the waste of bandwidth that is being used for all PCs to be updated using auto updates. I work doing computer support for a satellite campus to a graduate university and our internet connection is bad on a good day, we have a 1.5Mbps connection but when all the students came in last night and tonight with all their laptops, the most recent MS updates just bogged down our network. There must have been more than 100 students each night and that I was getting a 32kbps download speed at times (that is worse than a 33.6kbps modem). You are talking 15kbps per laptop of shared bandwidth for each laptop if they were downloading MS updates. Maybe if Microsoft starts to see bills for use of bandwidth from a lot of companies, we might just see some changes around there concerning all inclusive updates.

Has anyone seen Microsoft's excuse for an "auto patcher? It is a 2.8GB iso file that only covered August 14th's security patches and includes patches for Vista, Vista x64, XP, XP x64, 2003, 2003 x64, 2003 iTanium, and all variants of Win 2000 in up to 36 different languages. It does not include any previous updates and does not include any of the Office security patches released that same day. I don't know about you, but at my work, we only support XP and speak only one language so why would we want to download this all inclusive patch for more than 10 variants of windows we do not use and in 35 languages we do not speak? Like I said, waste of bandwidth.

So everyone start calculating how much it costs to waste bandwidth updating windows their way and send your bills to Microsoft today.

I'm actually surprised MS let it go on for as long as it did.
Although it doesn't affect me in any way I can understand how that won't be the case for a lot of people.

DKAngel said,
ahh well they are right, welp sad day for all

Why do you believe they are right? How is it illegal to maintain a local copy of updates? Does this mean every corporation that does the same is now also required to download updates solely from Microsoft each time they reinstall or add a new system? Does it mean that slipstreamed copies of Windows are illegal?

Microsoft should have released SP3 long ago, so users wouldn't have to make their own slipstreamed CDs or use tools like autopatcher.

toadeater said,

Why do you believe they are right? How is it illegal to maintain a local copy of updates? Does this mean every corporation that does the same is now also required to download updates solely from Microsoft each time they reinstall or add a new system? Does it mean that slipstreamed copies of Windows are illegal?

Microsoft should have released SP3 long ago, so users wouldn't have to make their own slipstreamed CDs or use tools like autopatcher.

actually go do some research man eaheaheah, u can slipstream a cd using all the tools available from microsoft and there is nothing wrong with that, i just belive they are right cause it would be so easy for autopatcher to contain malicious code added from someone as it is mirrored in so many places it just isnt funny and u can still get updates just mean u have to get them from windows update doesnt stop u from keeping a copy of them

toadeater said,

Why do you believe they are right? How is it illegal to maintain a local copy of updates? Does this mean every corporation that does the same is now also required to download updates solely from Microsoft each time they reinstall or add a new system? Does it mean that slipstreamed copies of Windows are illegal?

Microsoft should have released SP3 long ago, so users wouldn't have to make their own slipstreamed CDs or use tools like autopatcher.

read MS licensing restrictions i am sure you will find all the answers you want, but the truth is even if MS give somethign away for free it does not mean everyone else can, it's like if MS installed the free copy of acrobat in windows, they'd get their asses sued

You are not the only one who hates it when large companies abuse their power.

A message to the Neowin Administrators:
Microsoft doesn't own you. Stop acting like it does.

12Iceman said,
You are not the only one who hates it when large companies abuse their power.

A message to the Neowin Administrators:
Microsoft doesn't own you. Stop acting like it does.


You're absolutely right, they don't. Microsoft owns the updates.
If AutoPatcher didn't distribute updates maybe we wouldn't be here wondering about this problem, but it does, and apparently some idiot in MS has a problem with it. Whether it's right or wrong is debatable, but it's MS' patches, it's MS' decision.

billyea said,

You're absolutely right, they don't. Microsoft owns the updates.
If AutoPatcher didn't distribute updates maybe we wouldn't be here wondering about this problem, but it does, and apparently some idiot in MS has a problem with it. Whether it's right or wrong is debatable, but it's MS' patches, it's MS' decision.


no its not their decision. they can not force the project to end. neowin should look at itself in disgust that they allowed microsoft to bully them.

the project should continue without Microsoft seal of aproval.

werejag said,


no its not their decision. they can not force the project to end. neowin should look at itself in disgust that they allowed microsoft to bully them.

the project should continue without Microsoft seal of aproval.


Okay werejag, you can pay the legal fees once neowin gets sued.

billyea said,

You're absolutely right, they don't. Microsoft owns the updates.
If AutoPatcher didn't distribute updates maybe we wouldn't be here wondering about this problem, but it does, and apparently some idiot in MS has a problem with it. Whether it's right or wrong is debatable, but it's MS' patches, it's MS' decision.

IT'S NOT REALLY DEBATEABLE oops sorry caps, legally MS can do as they want, they OWN the updates and can do what they want with them.

werejag said,


no its not their decision. they can not force the project to end. neowin should look at itself in disgust that they allowed microsoft to bully them.

the project should continue without Microsoft seal of aproval.

LMAO they can quite easily stop the project they own all the updates, if it is kept going they can be sued by MS and have to close the site down, all i can say is don't even try do battle with MS legal, noone ever seems to win especially in this case as autopatcher has absolutley no case

12Iceman said,
You are not the only one who hates it when large companies abuse their power.

A message to the Neowin Administrators:
Microsoft doesn't own you. Stop acting like it does.

I agree! I think we should rally against Microsoft and be strong. Don't let the big boys bully us little boys.

Neowin, I'm sorry, but I'm disgusted at the way you handled this. Shutting down the Autopatcher forums immediately, and shutting down the project. How do you think the people who were in charge of the project felt? All their hard work has been put to rest. The least you could do is stand strong and tell Microsoft, "we're sorry, but we won't let you bully us." At least keep the forums.

Together, we can come up with a solution to this. This isn't the end of the world. We're NOT going to let stingy Microsoft stop this terrific project!

*nods, determined*

Andy13 said,
I agree! I think we should rally against Microsoft and be strong. Don't let the big boys bully us little boys.

Neowin, I'm sorry, but I'm disgusted at the way you handled this. Shutting down the Autopatcher forums immediately, and shutting down the project. How do you think the people who were in charge of the project felt? All their hard work has been put to rest. The least you could do is stand strong and tell Microsoft, "we're sorry, but we won't let you bully us." At least keep the forums.

Together, we can come up with a solution to this. This isn't the end of the world. We're NOT going to let stingy Microsoft stop this terrific project!

*nods, determined*

Let us know when you've finished your cape.