Microsoft denies any Xbox 360 Blu-ray drive possibility

Three years ago at E3 2006, Bill Gates, former CEO of Microsoft, announced a Xbox 360 HD DVD player that was capable of playing HD-DVD's. After the bloody war between HD-DVDs and Blu-ray discs was over and HD-DVD's were no more, Microsoft decided to discontinue the HD DVD drive for the Xbox 360.

Since then there have been multiple rumours regarding a possible Blu-ray drive coming to the Xbox 360. While statistics from the Digital Entertainment Group clearly show a spike in Blu-ray movie sales (91% in the first half of this year), Microsoft once again denied that a Blu-ray player for the Xbox 360 was in the making. A Microsoft spokesperson had this to say:

"As we have stated before, we have no plans to introduce a Blu-ray drive for Xbox 360. We have a long-standing high definition strategy that runs across gaming and premium content, and it's a strategy that continues to pay off for us. Today, we offer the largest library of blockbuster games and offer a growing library of nearly 20,000 movies and TV episodes on Xbox LIVE Video Marketplace (more than 5,000 in HD). In addition, people have access to 12,000 films and TV episodes on Netflix Instant watch. And coming this fall, Xbox LIVE will launch digital movies with instant on 1080p HD streaming so you can experience the best video quality with no disc, no download and no delay. "

So with that in mind, it looks like those who enjoy their Xbox 360's will not be seeing a Blu-ray drive hitting the market anytime soon. However if Blu-ray were to become the top-selling format for hard copies of movies, one would assume Microsoft would change their mind.

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For now, I don't see it being too much of a problem but I can definitely see why much larger physical media would be needed in the next generation xbox. It's too bad that HD DVD wasn't included in the 360 because it would probably still be going as well as having improvements made to it that increase capacity and bandwidth.

To be honest, I don't see why you couldn't have streaming games - I know WoW uses it for trial accounts so the technology is there. I understand that a lot of people have download caps or don't have access to a fast connection but it's a plausible solution that can be used by people that do. Obviously, it would need to be coupled with physical media but it allows the consumer to make the choice.

It's not just a question of having a fast enough Internet connection.

"And coming this fall, Xbox LIVE will launch digital movies with instant on 1080p HD streaming so you can experience the best video quality with no disc, no download and no delay. "

AceyBongos said this on twitter some time ago: "1080p movies, instant HD streaming, all of Europe invited (except Portugal, sorry guys) - BOOM!"

Well, **** you Microsoft. It's all fun & games and the best for your costumers and all that bull**** but what about me? And people still wonder why physical media is still around, it's still around because of crap like this :).

Physical discs still sell because when people spend their hard earned money they like to get something more than air in return.

Paying 5 dollars to rent a movie, see it in theater or stream it is okay. Streaming might and probably will one day replace stores where you rent movies on physical discs.

But asking people to pay 20-30$ for a digital file is not a battle that is won. Specially with file size as huge as HD movies.

It's easier to convince people to buy digital music files because of portable media players and also the small size of such files. But for HD movies with huge files size it's not for tomorrow.

HD streaming right now is not the same quality as Blu-Ray. You can ask people 5$ to stream the movie once. But asking 30$ to buy it not sure. It's HD but more compressed than Blu-Ray. It's like HD cable. Most of the time it doesn't look better than a good quality DVD scaled to 1080p using a good scaler.

I live out where it is impossible for me to get an internet connection capable of enough bandwith to stream HD video. who knows when something like cable or fios will be out here, but it definately isnt anytime soon.

I read most of this, not all so if I missed this... oops. bu isnt the reason bluray made it was because this time they licensed the technology to other companies so that there was a far greater choice of players and support, whereas with beta, it was superior but only sony was making the players while VHS was licensed to everyone.

and isnt bluray better than HDDVD in transfer rate on top of the obvious storage advantage.

Hmm, would MS rather:

a) Control a format and distribution end-to-end

or

b) Be part of a consortium and an open market?

Hmm... tough one!

People were arguing that the BDA would make money from MS's blu-ray licenses, but MS chose not to be part of the BDA themselves, even though they could have.

MS's wet dream is to be a big tollbooth on a platform they control, and somehow get everyone to want to buy into that.

I wasn't very fond of it. It hung on to an older format's name. We went from CD-ROM to DVD-ROM, not DVD-CD-ROM. Keeping up with the pattern, I'd rather see BD-ROM than HD-DVD-ROM.

I see an argument of price etc ..

but my PS3 cost me £230 used, plays all my music, divx out of the box, BluRay out of the box etc ...

AND ... price of BR? Go to Tesco or Asda, or Blockbuster and you can get BluRay's for a tenner or less in some cases.

I do NOT understand why everyone's acting like BR is expensive. It's not. I'd rather have BR to be honest. HD-DVD is more limited, and since price is not a factor (as I just stated above), why would anyone want the lesser format? BR offers more future proofing.

What about HD-DVD is more limiting? Obviously capacity, but in terms of features, speed etc. HD DVD is great. It's unfortunate it died.

ew2x4 said,
What about HD-DVD is more limiting? Obviously capacity, but in terms of features, speed etc. HD DVD is great. It's unfortunate it died.

BD 54Mbps > HD DVD 36Mbps total bandwidth. A big reason the vast majority of HD DVD titles were stuck with lossy audio and the majority of BDs are lossless.

Java is more difficult to program for than HDi, but it is also offers a lot more options.

Don't forget HD DVD hit their capacity wall in the first year, a title like King Kong was film only & lossy audio. The BD version has lossless audio and the Extended Cut seamlessly branched in.

I do not think that Digital Download will replace Physical media anytime in the next decade. However, I cant see any reason to keep fragile disks. Flash Media anyone??? Think about it... we have 256gb flash drives... and 128gb SD cards. Why not put games on those? Even USB ports have a transfer rate of 400Mbps more than enough to put HD movies or games on Flash media and run it off that... Plus Game consoles would become much smaller with out a disk drive...

Considering I just paid near $100 for a 32Gb Corsair memory stick..... I don't think it's quite feasible to sell games or movies with Flash device.

yes but that would soon change if everybody used it just a dvdr disc was expensive when they first debued and so now are BR discs but once they are in common use they'll come down in price and so will USB sticks 8Gig ones are now less than buying a DVD movie from a department store

TruckWEB said,
Considering I just paid near $100 for a 32Gb Corsair memory stick..... I don't think it's quite feasible to sell games or movies with Flash device.

so thats 10 bucks for the stick and 90 bucks for the ten yr waranty thats a good deal

Video kills the radio stars all over again.

People like to own physical things. mp3 files are small but people are still buying CDs. And the day people stop buying discs may never happen. I'm a tech guy who buy most of his things online guy and i still buy CDs. I buy my CDs online, rip them and store them in case my HD fail.

HD movies TAKE a truck load of space. Filling 1 TB with full HD movies is really really easy.

I have an HD-PVR with 500MB of disc space. I have 19 movies and TV shows recorded and my HD is almost full. You can put around 24 hours which is 12 movies at most. With 1TB it would be 24 movies. This is not a lot. And we are not even talking about lossless audio here.

Streaming is great. This is an old technology. Here in Quebec we can stream movies using Viewers Choice since the begnning of 1990 i think (not sure whenit started). Now you can stream movie from Viewers Choice in HD quality. You can substribe to The movie network on demand and what the movies when you want too.

But people will keep buying physical disc because they like to own movies and music.

Streaming might and will probably replace the way we rent movies one day or another but i don't see the day people will stop buying physical dis anyway definately not in the next decade.

That's good. I hope you are fine with changing out multiple discs partway through your games as well, because that "feature" is coming to the Xbox 360 very soon!!

roadwarrior said,
That's good. I hope you are fine with changing out multiple discs partway through your games as well, because that "feature" is coming to the Xbox 360 very soon!!

how many games uses more than 9gb ? (and not just filling with crap, i.e. quicktime events). May be a Final Fantasy 13 or 14 and nothing other more.

Outside of Forza 3 that has one disc you install to the dvd, and a 2nd you play with (thus no swaping), only RPGs, and even then, JRPGs, have 2 or more DVDs, and even then you only swap out once!

Though, playing Star Ocean 4, if I want to backtrack and dome some last minute sidequests (a very few of them) then I do have to swap back to disc 2 from 3. But who really cares? That's nitpicking something that's been around since the start of optical media in games consoles with FF7.

It's at the most a 10sec process. Games also find a good place to ask you to swap, it's not just at any random moment.

Magallanes said,
how many games uses more than 9gb ? (and not just filling with crap, i.e. quicktime events). May be a Final Fantasy 13 or 14 and nothing other more.


Right now? Few. In the coming year or two, probably quite a few. The simple fact is that Microsoft limited the maximum capacity of the Xbox 360 by only having a DVD drive and NOT having a hard drive available on all models. Developers have to cater to the lowest common denominator.

HD-DVD thing still going?

Anyway, I think the only platform for which pushing blu-ray doesnt make much sense would be the 360. After all, they've been pushing streaming services and such, in HD too I suppose. Blu-ray would complete the experience, but I guess xbox 360 owners can get their fix of HD stuff. At least those in US.

I'm more worried about macs still not having a bluray option, for example.

Sony owns blu-ray. They would never license the blu-ray to a competitor like microsoft it would equal less sales for them with the ps3. Toshiba bought the cell processor from sony for 800 million. Toshiba made hd-dvd and stopped making them when the sale took place. Now i can see microsoft using hd-dvd in the next 360 as for the size of the disc being larger than dvd. Microsoft made the software that ran the hd-dvd.

ufis said,
Sony owns blu-ray.

Sony does not own anything - Blu-ray is freely licensable technology to ANY business.

Stop spreading fud.

Wow. This is the board of directors for Blu-ray. Sony is on this board and am sure they would have to approve of licensing for blu-ray why would they license there tech to Microsoft? They would loose sales for the ps3.

* Apple Inc.
* Dell Inc.
* Hewlett-Packard
* Hitachi, Ltd.
* Intel Corporation
* LG Electronics (Lucky GoldStar)
* Mitsubishi Electric
* Panasonic (Matsu****a Electric Industrial)
* Pioneer Corporation
* Royal Philips Electronics
* Samsung Electronics
* Sharp Corporation
* Sony Corporation
* Sun Microsystems
* TDK Corporation (Tokyo Denki Kagaku)
* Thomson SA
* 20th Century Fox
* Walt Disney Motion Pictures Group
* Warner Bros. Entertainment, Inc.

no, Sony doesn't own blu-ray but they are on the board of directors along with the rest of these company's. I'm sure there is some sort of application for licensing and what would any of these company's gain if Microsoft were approved. Think about it. I wasn't posting crap i was making a point.
Toshiba and microsoft don't hold any patents for tech used in Blu-ray or they would be listed as contributors and they are not.


Now what you posted was crap because you made no point.
You just wasted everyones time by making them read redundant post.
Stop wasting peoples time with what you think you know and read up on **** before you post about other people not knowing.
(snipped)

Why would MS release a BR player? They are already allowing 720p downloads, Netflix and soon 1080p.

BR is already an outdated format, if it out lives zip discs(about 8-10yrs) it will surprise me.

AltecXP said,
Why would MS release a BR player? They are already allowing 720p downloads, Netflix and soon 1080p.

Yes because you have 100Mbps connections everywhere, you can store hundreds of movies on your X360 and the net never fails. Also in case you want to take your movie to a friends place it's no pr.. oh wait.

lflashl said,
YEs and everyone doesnt have big download caps! BTW Netflix doesnt exist in NZ.....

BTW Caps don't really exist everywhere. New 1080p streaming on the 360 will require a 8Mbps connection.

artzm said,
BTW Caps don't really exist everywhere. New 1080p streaming on the 360 will require a 8Mbps connection.

oh yea ?

and that kind of connection gonna cost me a minimum of 180$/mo !

artzm said,
BTW Caps don't really exist everywhere. New 1080p streaming on the 360 will require a 8Mbps connection.

1080p and only 8Mbps connection? I'm getting all excited at the compression level that will be used and how NOT HD the movies will look. And with DTS-HD?

skynetXrules said,
oh yea ?

and that kind of connection gonna cost me a minimum of 180$/mo !


Oh, how wrong you are. If you live in *most* of the US (and have even U-verse, let alone Comcast, FIOS, Cox, or Optimum Online), such a connection is barely $50/month. 8 megabits per second isn't even a midrange residential fiber *or* cable broadband connection these days (the midrange of either is over twice that). The issue is those parts of the US (and elsewhere) limited to VDSL2 or older xDSL or slower (either ADSL/SDSL or even *yeccch* dial-up Internet) connections.

PGHammer said,

Oh, how wrong you are. If you live in *most* of the US [...]


You seem to have made the fatal assumption that he is from the USA.

skynetXrules said,
oh yea ?

and that kind of connection gonna cost me a minimum of 180$/mo !

I have Basic Cox (like $20 a month) and I have a 12 Mbps connection with a 6Mbps upstream...

bigfootabercrombie said,
I have Basic Cox (like $20 a month) and I have a 12 Mbps connection with a 6Mbps upstream...


Where do YOU live, because I want to move there. My 6Mbps down/512Kbps up connection costs me over twice that!

roadwarrior said,
Where do YOU live, because I want to move there. My 6Mbps down/512Kbps up connection costs me over twice that!

I can get 120Mb fiber for €60/month

Is the new streaming technology going to be based on the HD capabilities they introduced with Silverlight 3? They did a demo for advertisers a few weeks ago, but this seems like a much better use of the technology.

It does, it's all going to be silverlight 3 based for that 1080p streaming etc. Or all streaming actually, since the tech auto-changes to fit your connection speed. If you have enough for 1080p you get it, if you can only get like 720p you'll get that.

If Microsoft had released (or announced) and Blu-ray player for the 360 after HD-DVD went the way of the Dodo Bird and human decency, I wouldn't have brought a PS3.

And now I kind of play my PS3 a little more than my 360.

DannyCSC said,
I agree if 360 had a bluray player I wouldn't have bought a PS3



I can buy a standalone bluray player from Samsung (and others) here in my part of the EU for half the price of the PS3. So, if I really wanted to own bluray movies etc, I wouldn't be thinking of a PS3 anyways.

microsoft needs to think outside the US. not EVERYONE has broadband internet and it takes s*** load of time if we were to download blu-ray quality of movies.

Today, we offer the largest library of blockbuster games and offer a growing library of nearly 20,000 movies and TV episodes on Xbox LIVE Video Marketplace (more than 5,000 in HD). In addition, people have access to 12,000 films and TV episodes on Netflix Instant watch
.
That is c**p.... it all about the US, and maybe UK. but what about the rest of the world! here in nz we dont have access to that content.

I understand how you feel but don't blame Microsoft, blame the movie studios. don't you think that MS would love to make it all world wide, it's just money to them, but the copyright and greedy studio's they'd have to appease is mind boggling.

wht a load of c##p. its MS and Movie Studios! if MS wanted to make it work around the world then they could! wht movie studio wouldnt love to have the market MS has with the 360 console! BTW the samething applys with iTunes, i cant download tvshows from them cause i live out the US! On top of that if not enough Americans watch a TV Show i like (or that matter the rest of the world) then it gets canceled!.... mmm i could go on! i think its time i put my tin foil hat back on before they find me!!!!!

Do you seriously believe that MS holds back content from you, content they could be making money on? Obviously Hulu is doing the same thing? It couldn't be the one thing that connects the 2 services like umm....say the studios?

Living in NZ yes! we had to wait till windows7 came out till we got the EPG guide on MCE! MS has a part to play jsut as much as the studios, and its not like we hear about MS pushing the studios to let content out to rest of the world!

Because MS can't push the studios? What makes you think anyone aside from governments can actually tell the studios what to do?

Sure MS could bend over and do whatever the studios wanted, thus giving you more content in NZ, BUT, it's a business, you have to look at the costs of doing whatever the deal put forth asks of you and see if it's worth it.

If the studios want a major chunk of the profits while not lifting a finger on server and bandwidth costs, thus leaving you with some change only, then it's not worth it! The profits you can make need to be enough to justify it all. At this point MS can't get a deal they like so you don't get anything in that part of the world.

In the US licnesing is simple, studio's own most of the TV stations as well, so you can get the content without any mess. Outside of the US, it's tricky. The studios licnesing out distro rights to other TV stations for that part of the world, thus they have the right to show that content in that area, if MS wants to show the same content in the same area, then you see how this turns into a mess? Not only do you have to deal with the studios but also foreign TV stations/broadcasters as well who have also paid for the right to show whatever it is.

There is also any music licensing as well, TV shows have music licensing as well, it's the big problem with Japanese stuff that has a mix of different music deals for the OP and ED music for their shows, that's why you see only a small % of their stuff in the US as well.

Copyrights are a mess, it takes time to work them out. MS is now starting to hit the EU, so just give it time.

I was reading the new RAGE game is going to take 3 DVD's to play on xbox. It only takes 1 Blu-Ray disk! I think Microsoft is going to have to bite the bullit and go the Blu Way!!!

DannyCSC said,
I was reading the new RAGE game is going to take 3 DVD's to play on xbox. It only takes 1 Blu-Ray disk! I think Microsoft is going to have to bite the bullit and go the Blu Way!!!


Just wait, Microsoft is building up to video games being available via downloads or even through streaming adn will one day be the most prefered method. The future of gaming will most likely not be on discs. Bluray is the last of its kind. Phyisical disks are beginning their decent.

DannyCSC said,
I was reading the new RAGE game is going to take 3 DVD's to play on xbox. It only takes 1 Blu-Ray disk! I think Microsoft is going to have to bite the bullit and go the Blu Way!!!

So then we would have to download 24 gigs per game?

apa1exakis said,
Just wait, Microsoft is building up to video games being available via downloads or even through streaming adn will one day be the most prefered method. The future of gaming will most likely not be on discs. Bluray is the last of its kind. Phyisical disks are beginning their decent.

Yeah, sure, but I don't look forward to having to download 24 gigs for one game, do you? How long is that going to take?

What happens when you run out of HDD space? Just delete the old games you paid for just to buy a new one? This downloading as you use crap isn't going to work either. Most people can't get a steady or a fast internet connection. Digital distribution wont be ready for another 10 years!

Yeah, because everybody, everywhere is plugged into high-speed broadband Internet.... Even those people in remote places, mountains, ....

Go Streaming!

bla bla bla !!!

unless everyone get access to 100Mb/s unlimited connection and have 1/2TB of HDD space at least.

it will never become the norm

skynetXrules said,
bla bla bla !!!

unless everyone get access to 100Mb/s unlimited connection and have 1/2TB of HDD space at least.

it will never become the norm



Yup, never.

And MS will never release a bluray drive for the 360, so that's that right?

MS should find some other media to use for games and keep movies online and stream them. If that's not enough, then I'm sure whoever wants to can get a standalone player. I personally don't care for bluray, and am not looking to buy one anytime soon. I'd also rather rent the vast majority of movies/games than actually buy them seeing how the vast majority aren't worth the price anyways.

So yes, GO STREAMING! If you have the speed, then great, if you're up in the mountains in some remote part of the world, do you even hae power or running water? I think a fast internet connection is the least of your worries.

I think MS should invest in future holo-disc media, 300GB-1tB per disc. Should be enough for square to stuff even more cut scenes in, cuz you know, we can't get enough of those right?

skynetXrules said,
bla bla bla !!!

unless everyone get access to 100Mb/s unlimited connection and have 1/2TB of HDD space at least.

it will never become the norm

You seem pretty short-sighted. It's not unthinkable (and even very likely) that in a couple of decades most people actually have unlimited 100Mb/s (or more) connections, with terabytes of disk space.

dismuter said,
You seem pretty short-sighted. It's not unthinkable (and even very likely) that in a couple of decades most people actually have unlimited 100Mb/s (or more) connections, with terabytes of disk space.


And that will help the Xbox 360 how?? Remember, that is what we are talking about here.

roadwarrior said,
And that will help the Xbox 360 how?? Remember, that is what we are talking about here.



It helps for the vast numbers of people who have a fast enough connection and don't get capped.

GP007 said,
It helps for the vast numbers of people who have a fast enough connection and don't get capped.


dismuter was talking about decades from now. Right now, "vast numbers of people" DON'T have fast enough connections without caps to support streaming 1080p movies and multi-GB game downloads.

roadwarrior
And that will help the Xbox 360 how?? Remember, that is what we are talking about here.


the fact is there ARE consumers NOW that have this ability. Proof of concept to the high end, which then filters down as data connections get cheaper and provide higher speeds and data plans for the mainstream.

GP007 said,


Yup, never.

And MS will never release a bluray drive for the 360, so that's that right?

MS should find some other media to use for games and keep movies online and stream them. If that's not enough, then I'm sure whoever wants to can get a standalone player. I personally don't care for bluray, and am not looking to buy one anytime soon. I'd also rather rent the vast majority of movies/games than actually buy them seeing how the vast majority aren't worth the price anyways.

So yes, GO STREAMING! If you have the speed, then great, if you're up in the mountains in some remote part of the world, do you even hae power or running water? I think a fast internet connection is the least of your worries.

I think MS should invest in future holo-disc media, 300GB-1tB per disc. Should be enough for square to stuff even more cut scenes in, cuz you know, we can't get enough of those right?

The console market is not the PC OS market.

It's a competitive market.

As Blu-Ray and HD-TV gets more and more popular MS will need to add a Blu-Ray drive. This will be done next generation you can quote me on that.

Gamecube lack of a DVD drive hurted Nnitendo A LOT.

Streaming of movies is a joke. Quality is not there and not even close to it. It's HD but resolution is not everything compression is as important if not more.

Microsoft denies any plans to introduce a Blu-Ray addon for Xbox360.

...

Microsoft releases Blu-Ray addon for Xbox360.

/it's the business pattern, they ALL do it, nobody seems to notice

MS don't see a reason to release a blu-ray addon for the 360 as it doesn't make sense for them to do so. Also, they'd have to pay licencing fees to Sony...something I'm sure they're not interested in doing ;-)

Microsoft is a business. If a fee to Sony nets the profits to offset it, that's all that matters. It's easy for consumers to talk about things like principles, but they aren't near as much of a reality in the business world as the average Joe seems to think. Much like in politics, principles are marketing tools.

The only question is whether or not Microsoft is trying to compete with Blu-Ray by focusing on digital content. I don't think they are. It wouldn't make sense for a proprietary platform (the Xbox) that only MS can distribute to compete with a standard (Blu-Ray) that anyone can market a player for.

This leaves us with whether or not Blu-Ray has gone mainstream enough to warrant MS's inclusion in an effort to make the Xbox360 a one-stop media center. If sales continue to improve, it's pretty much inevitable. It will either be a 360 addon, or part of the next generation.

The only thing that might give Microsoft pause is the cost of adding Blu-Ray. Consoles are expensive enough this generation, and they know full well that their relative affordability is a contributing factor in helping them compete with the PS3.

while i tend to agree with you Joshie, i also think that your argument about a proprietary platform is invalid, look at iTunes and Apple as an example. the more hardware you sell, the more "standard" it becomes. microsoft wants to get their hardware out there, see frequent price drops, so they can become a defacto standard. if the sales of the 360 improve, the more their push for digital distribution grows.

phunkymunky said,
sorry, if sales of the 360 continue to improve i meant...



And it seems they are, 360 along with the DS are the only systems that had sales go up year-over-year it seems. There's a thread in the GH forum, so you can read the details there.

All the other systems are down.

IMHO, physical media distribution will continue to shrink in size. Digital distribution is the way forward. Steam, XBLA, PSN, Impulse etc are all growing rapidly and making a ton of money at the same time. Blu-ray discs will become a niche market. You'll always have a market for those that enjoy a blue box and a bit of card board so you can keep as a library, but digital distribution will become the norm.

Personally the only reason I even have a blu-ray drive in my HTPC is due to the severe lack of online HD content available to download in Australia. If Netflix was available in AU, I wouldn't have bothered.

Digital distribution is going to cause a panic in the US. Networks here don't like to anticipate increased load. They wait for the increase, then scramble to improve capacity while customers continue to pay full price to suffer through the down time.

Joshie said,
Digital distribution is going to cause a panic in the US. Networks here don't like to anticipate increased load. They wait for the increase, then scramble to improve capacity while customers continue to pay full price to suffer through the down time.


Not only in the US , there are several ( like 90% ) that still have stupid bandwith , their connection is being under Traffic shapping, Throttling and have a cap

digital dsitribution has its place beside physical, but it will never be a replacement. There are too many people who believe in actually owning a physical copy of something and as long as you're pulling something down from a server somewhere else you're beholden to whatever rules that set for it.

macrosslover said,
digital dsitribution has its place beside physical, but it will never be a replacement. There are too many people who believe in actually owning a physical copy of something and as long as you're pulling something down from a server somewhere else you're beholden to whatever rules that set for it.

+1, what if i want to get rid of some off my movies i dont watch, its not like i can sell to them pornshop or on ebay!

Uhhh, I think it's illegal to resell your movies anyways? So owning a physical copy doesn't change that.

I could be wrong though? Anyways, it's like what they're doing to used game sales, and trying to, or starting to, kill those off as well.

GP007 said,
Uhhh, I think it's illegal to resell your movies anyways? So owning a physical copy doesn't change that.

I could be wrong though? Anyways, it's like what they're doing to used game sales, and trying to, or starting to, kill those off as well.


Huh? Not sure where you got that idea, as there are plenty of places that buy used movies and games. FYE, Gamestop, and EBgames just to name a few.

There was news that, iirc, at least gamestop was trying to or going to stop reselling used games. It might have been PS3 related or something from the Nintendo side? I forget, it's been a year.

Joshie said,
Digital distribution is going to cause a panic in the US. Networks here don't like to anticipate increased load. They wait for the increase, then scramble to improve capacity while customers continue to pay full price to suffer through the down time.


Not just the US here in the UK it's the same there is proven records for on-demand hi-def services (VM Anytime, BBC iPlayer,, Netflix etc) the problem is the infrastructure can't cope with this.

It could have doen if investment had been made but it hasn't, what's happening in the states right now is exactly what happened 10 years+ (or so) ago with Long Distance Calls rates and the anti-competition laws enforced on Ma Bell and AT&T forcing them to lease their lines wholesale prices, allowing mergers with Comcast etc. The same thing is happening with broadband tech, the industry isn't ready for the consumer wants. They promised a service they can't provide, the only places ready are Japan and South Korea where FTH is readily available and government subsidised, of course that's pointless because they aren't allowed to view anything unless it's been appropriately censored but still they have the capability.

Digital distribution WILL I REPEAT WILL replace normal methods and they will be DRM crippled and all that will happen is they will be cracked and lines tapped and a whole new era of piracy will begin

seriously? let hd dvd die, that horse is long dead. I don't see how you can cast Sony as a villian in this. Blu-ray prices are jacked because studios are greedy plain and simple, that would have been the same if we had hd-dvd as well, greed transcends everything.

I agree. At the end of the day, sure blu-ray may cost a bit more to manufacture than hd-dvd as a medium, but if HD-DVD had won, they would have jacked the prices up.

And Sony can't be fairly cast as the villan here because it was ultimately the decision of several studios to switch/support Blu-ray exclusively. Sure Sony pushed for it hard and perhaps provided certain financial incentive to push them to make the switch, but it would be business naivety (sp?) to think that Toshiba and the HD DVD camp did not do the same.

MistaT40 said,
I agree. At the end of the day, sure blu-ray may cost a bit more to manufacture than hd-dvd as a medium, but if HD-DVD had won, they would have jacked the prices up.

And Sony can't be fairly cast as the villan here because it was ultimately the decision of several studios to switch/support Blu-ray exclusively. Sure Sony pushed for it hard and perhaps provided certain financial incentive to push them to make the switch, but it would be business naivety (sp?) to think that Toshiba and the HD DVD camp did not do the same.

It's naiveté for the Americans if anyone cares -- naivety is typically the British equivalent. :P

EDIT: I guess html_elements destroyed my accented e. Oh well -- nobody cares anyway :P

Because Sony singlehandedly shoved this thing through. Separating them from "the studios" is ridiculous. They're one of the largest holders of studios and video content on the planet, with 30% of the films by some reckonings. That's the reason that Blu was unbeatable, not the technology, the library that they controlled.

Blu is only now catching up with the features and quality that HD-DVD was delivering from day one. And thank god for that. Now if the prices will start dropping to the level of HD-DVD media, we can all rest soundly. There's a reason that there are still fewer stand-alone Blu players than there are HD-DVD players out there, and primarily it's because the videophiles know that today's Blu player probably won't play tomorrow's discs, which continues to give the edge to general purpose players like the PS3.

Dead_Monkey said,
Because Sony singlehandedly shoved this thing through. Separating them from "the studios" is ridiculous. They're one of the largest holders of studios and video content on the planet, with 30% of the films by some reckonings. That's the reason that Blu was unbeatable, not the technology, the library that they controlled.

Blu is only now catching up with the features and quality that HD-DVD was delivering from day one. And thank god for that. Now if the prices will start dropping to the level of HD-DVD media, we can all rest soundly. There's a reason that there are still fewer stand-alone Blu players than there are HD-DVD players out there, and primarily it's because the videophiles know that today's Blu player probably won't play tomorrow's discs, which continues to give the edge to general purpose players like the PS3.



Exactly, I think that should be illegal! Content holders/providers SHOULDN'T have the ability to make/create and sell media formats like what sony does, and why it keeps coming up with all it's own formats and such. If you own enough studio's and enough of the content you can unfairly sell your other product as well, in this case bluray.

I guess we can't shout "monopoly" because Sony doesn't own a big enough chunk of the film producers or media market etc, but still, it's the only reason we have bluray at all.

If it was a fair fight between HD-DVD and Bluray from the start, HD-DVD would've won, it was cheaper to make from the get go, had better interactive features and so on. The only plus side is that bluray can go higher storage wise. Other than that, they bot used the same codecs and so on.

With enough time toshiba could've made a bigger, more dense, layer for HD-DVD and added on a 4th if sales had been good. They did manage to get the space up to 17GB from 15GB per layer and add in a 3rd iirc.

But in the end Sony had enough studio weight to get all the big players to support Bluray.

Sad to see the FUD continuing long after HD DVD was dead & buried and Toshiba is readying their BD player to market.

It's not a Sony format. Panasonic holds more IP & patents in it. Panasonic, Sony, Pioneer and Philips formed the core of the BD group to establish the format in 2001.

The 51GB TL disc never entered the marketplace and no 17GB per layer format ever existed outside the prototype lab.

Even with extended space, HD DVD didn't have the bandwidth (limit 36Mpbs total to BD's 54Mbps) to support high bitrate video, lossless audio and PiP function. Titles like Batman Begins were severely bandwidth limited, with real resolution measured far below 1080p (more like 720p).

For those who keep repeating the "cheaper" mantra: you get what you pay for. In the end, the better format won, despite Toshiba tactics like paying $150 million for Paramount/DreamWorks exclusives.

Honestly, I believe if we just supported Toshiba and the whole HD DVD thing.. HD movies would have been waaaay cheaper... Made more sense to the public.. and would have done well.. Same issue came up with beta max or whatever you call it and VHS. Thank god VHS won.

SONY.. sometimes the moves you make.. MAKE no sense.. all this bull shows with what a sad device the PS3 is.. Yes its got everything.. but why do you think Xbox out shun them in the run? I hope HD DVD makes a come back. Choice is always good...

dimithrak said,
Honestly, I believe if we just supported Toshiba and the whole HD DVD thing.. HD movies would have been waaaay cheaper... Made more sense to the public.. and would have done well.. Same issue came up with beta max or whatever you call it and VHS. Thank god VHS won.

SONY.. sometimes the moves you make.. MAKE no sense.. all this bull shows with what a sad device the PS3 is.. Yes its got everything.. but why do you think Xbox out shun them in the run? I hope HD DVD makes a come back. Choice is always good...

No.

You do know that BETAMAX was Better than VHS dont ya ? :P , you should know this if you were already born

this time they learned the lesson and went after BETAMAX ( BR ) instead of VHS ( HD DVD )

And no HD DVD is buried , even TOSHIBA is about to start selling their BR's

Its is like VHS and Betamax and again the worst format came better off...

It comes down to marketing and how they push the product...

HDDVD had a MASSIVE FAIL in marketing and BluRay brought the supplyers (being disney and sony to kick start it off)

Again history repeats it self... The worst format wins and the blame belongs to the companys which manage the good format...

Akaruz said,
You do know that BETAMAX was Better than VHS dont ya ? :P , you should know this if you were already born

this time they learned the lesson and went after BETAMAX ( BR ) instead of VHS ( HD DVD )

And no HD DVD is buried , even TOSHIBA is about to start selling their BR's

Betamax was NOT better than VHS. It was slightly better visually, (240 lines compared with 200 lines of VHS, your SD tv does 400 lines), but each tape could only hold 1hr, compared with over 2 hours for VHS. So every movie, you had to buy 2 beta tapes, compared with 1 VHS tape. IS THAT BETTER???

Nobody wanted that, nobody wanted to have to get up and change the tape half way through the movie, for an imperceptible improvement in the video. Plus it costs more for 2 tapes rather than one. By the time sony started making Beta tapes >1hr they had already lost. Everybody had bought a VHS machine, and they aren't going to go out and get two machines. On top of that you would have to replace their current library of tapes.

Can we please stop this mis-information coming out every time.

brent3000 said,
Its is like VHS and Betamax and again the worst format came better off...

It comes down to marketing and how they push the product...

HDDVD had a MASSIVE FAIL in marketing and BluRay brought the supplyers (being disney and sony to kick start it off)

Again history repeats it self... The worst format wins and the blame belongs to the companys which manage the good format...

Not so sure bluray is the worst format, it seems it can hold a lot more layers.

Anyway, does anyone really care about these formats?? DVD is enough for me, and most people.

Yes it is, thats why many video houses use Beta tapes to this day. They are a higher quality video and when transfered to digital files for the computer you get a higher quality video.

I though the same thing as you, till I got schooled by a few multi-award winning video editors/producers.

AltecXP said,
Yes it is, thats why many video houses use Beta tapes to this day. They are a higher quality video and when transfered to digital files for the computer you get a higher quality video.

I though the same thing as you, till I got schooled by a few multi-award winning video editors/producers.

They are using super beta, or beta-8, not the same tapes that they were selling to the consumer. These are huge tapes, much bigger than VHS even. They are completely different to the old tapes we are talking about here.

cakesy said,
Betamax was NOT better than VHS. It was slightly better visually, (240 lines compared with 200 lines of VHS, your SD tv does 400 lines), but each tape could only hold 1hr, compared with over 2 hours for VHS. So every movie, you had to buy 2 beta tapes, compared with 1 VHS tape. IS THAT BETTER???

Depending on quality, Beta tapes where 1hrs, 2hrs and 4hrs. At the time Beta was used, most movies fitted on a single tape. Sony introduced the Beta II and Beta III mode (2hrs and 4hrs) to compete with VHS.

The picture quality of Beta was always better than VHS, no mater witch speed you selected for recording.

So please, stop with the mis-information.

cakesy said,
Not so sure bluray is the worst format, it seems it can hold a lot more layers.

Anyway, does anyone really care about these formats?? DVD is enough for me, and most people.

Ur missing the point to where the technology is at currently...

HDDVD is/was finished and ready to go when it hit the market...

When BD hit the market they were still developing its technology and it was no where near the standards of HDDVD... Best example is BD2.0, made every player that was not upgrable redundant as it could lead to new players not playing the movie..
HDDVD on the other side had online computability and firmware upgrades when it hit the shelf...

Just one of the examples...

brent3000 said,
Best example is BD2.0, made every player that was not upgrable redundant as it could lead to new players not playing the movie.


Wrong. They could still play the movie, they just might not be able to access some of the advanced playback features.

dimithrak said,
Honestly, I believe if we just supported Toshiba and the whole HD DVD thing.. HD movies would have been waaaay cheaper... Made more sense to the public.. and would have done well.. Same issue came up with beta max or whatever you call it and VHS. Thank god VHS won.

SONY.. sometimes the moves you make.. MAKE no sense.. all this bull shows with what a sad device the PS3 is.. Yes its got everything.. but why do you think Xbox out shun them in the run? I hope HD DVD makes a come back. Choice is always good...


I have to agree with you..from a pure comsumer standpoint HD DVD was the right way to go.

Akaruz said,
You do know that BETAMAX was Better than VHS dont ya ? :P , you should know this if you were already born

this time they learned the lesson and went after BETAMAX ( BR ) instead of VHS ( HD DVD )

And no HD DVD is buried , even TOSHIBA is about to start selling their BR's


very true. Betamax was far superior. There's also the very dead format C.E.D.'s were better than Laserdiscs. But work rather expensive to make. I hadn't even heard of them until someone sent one to me instead of an LD. CED disks will far out last laserdiscs even if the players don't. Just for once the better format won. The name HDDVD sucked period. And continue's to cause confusion because most people think they own an HDDVD when they just own DVD's. Yes our spelling is going out the window. It's not BlueRay it's Bluray. But there's always the compact disc. which really should be compact disk. Microsoft is going to hit a brick wall by continuing to insist on online movies. Technology isn't there. It's about 5 years off. By then they'll be left in the dust.

cakesy said,


Not so sure bluray is the worst format, it seems it can hold a lot more layers.

Anyway, does anyone really care about these formats?? DVD is enough for me, and most people.


if you stay on a CRT. even with upconverting some older dvd's really show. pixelation is really bad on lcd's. I've got an upconverting dvd player. quality sucks on dvds. I'll watch them, but have to turn the quality on the dvd way way down to even watch a dvd without a headache. Once you watch something in hi def, it's hard to go back. Same thing goes for people watching say football on HDTV. They can't watch it on standard def ever again.

cakesy said,

Betamax was NOT better than VHS. It was slightly better visually, (240 lines compared with 200 lines of VHS, your SD tv does 400 lines), but each tape could only hold 1hr, compared with over 2 hours for VHS. So every movie, you had to buy 2 beta tapes, compared with 1 VHS tape. IS THAT BETTER???

Nobody wanted that, nobody wanted to have to get up and change the tape half way through the movie, for an imperceptible improvement in the video. Plus it costs more for 2 tapes rather than one. By the time sony started making Beta tapes >1hr they had already lost. Everybody had bought a VHS machine, and they aren't going to go out and get two machines. On top of that you would have to replace their current library of tapes.

Can we please stop this mis-information coming out every time.


Yes it was better , but due to the porn industry it won the vhs :P

ps - and you even said "slightly better visually" , well on my book thats better even if its by .0000000000000001%