Microsoft knew Windows Phone 7 would have short life cycle

When Microsoft announced Windows Phone 8 two weeks ago, it did so with a notable caveat: the new mobile operating system wouldn't be coming to current Windows Phone devices. According to a new interview, the company knew early in the development of Windows Phone 7 that current Windows Phone devices would have short lifespans.

This was known as development for Windows Phone 8 was done in parallel with Windows Phone 7, since the company wanted to merge its mobile kernel with the Windows NT kernel but didn't have the necessary time. While Windows Phone 7 will be getting an overhauled start screen, it won't be compatible with applications developed for Windows Phone 8. Greg Sullivan, senior product manager for Windows Phone, told CNET UK that Microsoft knew from the beginning that Windows Phone 7 would eventually be abandoned and chose not to tell its customers.

Development for Windows Phone 8 even began before Windows Phone 7 was released in some ways, Sullivan said.

"The team that developed the 7.5 release actually was working in parallel with the core team that was already beginning [Windows Phone 8]," Sullivan told the technology site. "In fact some of that work was already initiated before Windows Phone 7 was even available – so this goes back a little bit."

Sullivan told CNET UK that unifying Microsoft's Windows kernel with its Windows Phone kernel was "always the plan" and called the lack of compatibility between Windows Phone 7 and Windows Phone 8 a "generational shift." He then went on to add that Microsoft doesn't expect a similar "generational shift" in the foreseeable future because of the design of the new architecture. Windows Phone 7 devices will continue to receive support and work with Microsoft's online services, such as SkyDrive and Xbox Live, even though they won't be as tightly integrated with Microsoft's upcoming Windows 8 operating system as Windows Phone 8 devices will be.

According to Sullivan, Microsoft chose to launch Windows Phone 7 knowing its limited timeframe because it had to compete against Android and iOS immediately. "It was important for us to establish this new approach in user experience and begin to build the developer ecosystem," Sullivan said. "Those are necessary but not sufficient steps to establish a new platform and we didn't want to wait until [we were able to launch Windows Phone 8] to begin that because we're maintaining those core characteristics of the platform."

Source: CNET UK

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This is normal.

I have an uncle who is now retired but he used to work on the DEC Alphas. He said that the ones coming out were already two generations behind. The replacement for the brand new one was already entering testing and the one replacing that was under design.

It only makes sense, try to cram in too many features you pull a Duke Nukem Forever and it takes 10 years to make the device and its outdated by the time it arrives. If you limit your scope you can come to market and push features into the next version of the software. Plus some things like NFC may not yet have the infrastructure in place yet to work.

Most Android phones are abondoned. Nobody seems to care.

Since WP 7.5 is getting bumped to 7.8, still getting updates and support ? How does that qualify as abandoned ?

Say what you want with android, but as of this writing, i can still download my paid apps i got back on my original g1, on my HTC ICS phone without a problem.
Windows phone? eh, not so much.

Rudie32 said,
Say what you want with android, but as of this writing, i can still download my paid apps i got back on my original g1, on my HTC ICS phone without a problem.
Windows phone? eh, not so much.

Actually, yes, you will be able to download, install, and run any WP7 app on WP8.

Ohhh stop complaining already it a phone and works great . what did you think extra you were gonna get with an upgrade teleportation capabilities ?? their all the same i have the note and 900 when i get the upgrade for the note what am i gonna get better eye candy same with iphone only apple has the sheeple masses fawinging over some dumb feature that android had years ago

Here's the thing. Microsoft wants to make money, let's say they told us the new start screen would be the only real new feature in 7.8 there would be a very low interest in the current WP7 devices. If they told us that there would be more WP8 features than the startscreen in 7.8 people would still be interested in the WP7 devices.

Now they're just giving us vague answers and promising the startscreen. For me that's just their way to still keep some interest in the current WP7 devices instead of just dropping the bomb that the startscreen will be the only feature and loose ALL interest.

This is what I think and sorry for my bad english (:


Greg Sullivan, senior product manager for Windows Phone, told CNET UK that Microsoft knew from the beginning that Windows Phone 7 would eventually be abandoned and chose not to tell its customers.

That's really underhanded, even for Microsoft.

I got what I paid for with my Windows Phones. They will continue to work for years after WP8 is out. I don't really see what all the crying is about here.

Enron said,
I don't really see what all the crying is about here.

The whole premise of Windows Phone and its strict hardware requirements was that devices would be compatible with software updates long in the future. Now we know, that was all smoke and mirrors to get people to jump onboard when Microsoft knew even before release that the WP7 platform was dead. That's a great way to treat your fans and early adopters isn't it?

Not allowing WP7 to run WP8 apps is probably the worst culprit though. Who's going to target WP7 when no more of them are going to be made?

Enron said,

They will continue to work for years after WP8 is out.

I have a ZX Spectrum that still works but that doesn't mean it's good for anything. It's obsolete, just like WP7 will be in a couple of months.

Enron said,

I got what I paid for with my Windows Phones.

I wonder if you would think that way had you just bought a Lumia 900 on a two year contract?

simplezz said,

The whole premise of Windows Phone and its strict hardware requirements was that devices would be compatible with software updates long in the future. Now we know, that was all smoke and mirrors to get people to jump onboard when Microsoft knew even before release that the WP7 platform was dead. That's a great way to treat your fans and early adopters isn't it?

I have a ZX Spectrum that still works but that doesn't mean it's good for anything. It's obsolete, just like WP7 will be in a couple of months.

I wonder if you would think that way had you just bought a Lumia 900 on a two year contract?

#1 I'll give you, but I don't think people are really that upset about it.
#2 I don't think it'll be any less obsolete than my iPhone 3G, which still works except for the battery. Just because it can't run the very latest software doesn't mean it's useless. But if you're going by the definition "replaced by something newer," there are a lot of obsolete phones on sale today.
#3 I bought a Lumia 900 and don't feel bad about it. It works great. It will continue to work great. I'll probably buy another Nokia later this year.

Wow...The abuse Microsoft fans take is enormous yet they still stand by their abusers, well all 2% of them anyway

I love my phone, I know going in it was a beta/fundraiser/hardware test... and I don't mind getting a new device for WP8 because it's needed anyways. 4G, Dual/Quadcores/Face Camera... Speed, ram... USB3, storage, touch reaction times.... New hardware is needed.

My only complaint and demand is they offer a great upgrade price(massive discount) from WM7 to WM8. Sounds like they are doing that for W8 Pro.

And there we have it. Confirmation of what we've assumed since the beginning of the year. But it doesn't matter. I'm happy with the phone I have, and by the time my contract expires in 1.5 years, there will be even better WP8 phones out from the ones that will be released in October.

3Cube said,
Now I understand the full meaning of this commercial. http://youtu.be/_elqLDSt36k

"Thanks for being cool with crappy pictures" - Luckily I have a Samsung Focus S instead of Lumia 900, I have an actual quality camera

"Thanks for your patience" with slow load speeds - Now that's a problem that affects all WP7's. Apps load terribly slow (compare them to any other platform, it's awful)

"You didn't think those other smartphones were real, did you?" - Some people thought the Lumia 900 was real and bought it unfortunately lol

And Guess what? They failed. They failed to give people first good impression and they failed to keep their promises. so It's time for competitors to go fishing

S3P€hR said,
And Guess what? They failed. They failed to give people first good impression and they failed to keep their promises. so It's time for competitors to go fishing

If you'd scroll up and read a bit you'll notice that people who actually own the thing will tell you otherwise.

S3P€hR said,
And Guess what? They failed. They failed to give people first good impression and they failed to keep their promises. so It's time for competitors to go fishing

You failed at thinking

S3P€hR said,
And Guess what? They failed. They failed to give people first good impression and they failed to keep their promises. so It's time for competitors to go fishing

It didn't fail. The after sales support failed.

recursive said,

Keep rubbin the wound, boy...

Keep on replying to all my posts. It's not creepy at all. I must have really touched your sensitive spot, you are really obsessed with me. Go compile your stupid kernel and leave me alone.

Microsoft knew Windows Phone 7 would be abandoned? Hahaha Microsoft ripped off all who buy the phone and it will be do it again .. you should get Android is way better and intelligent system,.

Gaara sama said,
Microsoft knew Windows Phone 7 would be abandoned? Hahaha Microsoft ripped off all who buy the phone and it will be do it again .. you should get Android is way better and intelligent system,.

You're a comedy genius! Oh.. you were serious..

Gaara sama said,
Microsoft knew Windows Phone 7 would be abandoned? Hahaha Microsoft ripped off all who buy the phone and it will be do it again .. you should get Android is way better and intelligent system,.

Ah, so when I purchased the T-mobile G1, Google didn't inform me that it will not be upgraded to the next version of Android. Yeah, I got stuck in Version 1.8.

Also, how can you say that it is a better and intelligent system considering the fact Android just get slapped on devices without being properly optimized, hence the problem with dual cores (running sluggish) and defragmentation - yeah that is very intelligent.

As for Microsoft, they have a habit of bringing software out there just to get into a particular market, and they will eventually improve upon it once it is out there. This is nothing new other than the fact that Windows Phone 7 (7.5) is one of the best product that they came out with for its first run.

Gaara sama said,
Microsoft knew Windows Phone 7 would be abandoned? Hahaha Microsoft ripped off all who buy the phone and it will be do it again .. you should get Android is way better and intelligent system,.

Intelligent? When Carriers would advise their customers and at times even installed Task Manager to close out programs because their phones would lock up and had to be rebooted?

Better when only 1 in 10 devices are running ICS and the others can't be upgraded?

Keep on smoking that crack...

recursive said,

Ignroe PmRd he just missed his session with the therapist today.

Wow how old are you, 5? Go troll elsewhere. You seem to have an obsession with me. You keep replying to my posts. You probably need therapy for stalking or something.

recursive said,

Yes, except that google weren't developing 2.1 when they sold it to you. And it was supported for a lot longer than a mere 2 months.

Thank you recursive for that very insightful well though response.

Do you really think that Google was just going to stop at 1.8? Is it because you didn't see a news about it that you are lead to believe that Google wasn't further developing the OS? Look at the big picture as every company has a long term plan of updating their software or devices. You are so shortsighted.

RommelS said,

Thank you recursive for that very insightful well though response.

Do you really think that Google was just going to stop at 1.8? Is it because you didn't see a news about it that you are lead to believe that Google wasn't further developing the OS? Look at the big picture as every company has a long term plan of updating their software or devices. You are so shortsighted.

Don't bother with him he's so in love with Linux and Android that his logic is blinded. He probably thinks he's better than us because he has to do so many stupid things to get something working on his computer and phone.

recursive said,

Hey at least I don't have to pay for and run 15 anti-viruses and hope my computer doesn't get hacked or blue screens or I have to reboot it every other minute.


And neither do I! Thank goodness I stopped using Windows 95.

recursive said,

Hey at least I don't have to pay for and run 15 anti-viruses and hope my computer doesn't get hacked or blue screens or I have to reboot it every other minute.

Lol most ignorant comment ever. I suppose you would suggest Linux to every casual computer user.

PmRd said,

I suppose you would suggest Linux to every casual computer user.

Yes I would. In fact, it's even more critical for non-technical users due to the security risks (malware) involved with using Windows.

There are distros ranging from beginner to expert level.

PmRd said,

Lol most ignorant comment ever.

You are calling other people ignorant yet you yourself fail to provide a counter argument. That's classic argumentum ad hominem.

simplezz said,

Yes I would. In fact, it's even more critical for non-technical users due to the security risks (malware) involved with using Windows.

There are distros ranging from beginner to expert level.

Lol yeah right, good luck getting good tech-support for your super Linux distro.

PmRd said,

Lol yeah right, good luck getting good tech-support for your super Linux distro.

Or having the hardware you buy work lol. Linux is stupid.

simplezz said,

You are calling other people ignorant yet you yourself fail to provide a counter argument. That's classic argumentum ad hominem.

Wow, did you learn those words using Linux? A normal person would never be able to use Linux because

A) none of the software/hardware he would buy would work on it.
B) You don't have tech-support.
C) People already think Windows is complicated.

So yes thinking that Linux is better for the casual computer user is ignorant.

RommelS said,

Ah, so when I purchased the T-mobile G1, Google didn't inform me that it will not be upgraded to the next version of Android. Yeah, I got stuck in Version 1.8.

Also, how can you say that it is a better and intelligent system considering the fact Android just get slapped on devices without being properly optimized, hence the problem with dual cores (running sluggish) and defragmentation - yeah that is very intelligent.

As for Microsoft, they have a habit of bringing software out there just to get into a particular market, and they will eventually improve upon it once it is out there. This is nothing new other than the fact that Windows Phone 7 (7.5) is one of the best product that they came out with for its first run.


Windows Phone 7 (7.5) is one of the best product that they came out with for its first run.? oh really the battery don't even last 2 hours talking how come you call that better?

Gaara sama said,


Windows Phone 7 (7.5) is one of the best product that they came out with for its first run.? oh really the battery don't even last 2 hours talking how come you call that better?

You're mixing hardware and software...

simplezz said,

Yes I would. In fact, it's even more critical for non-technical users due to the security risks (malware) involved with using Windows.

There are distros ranging from beginner to expert level.

You are calling other people ignorant yet you yourself fail to provide a counter argument. That's classic argumentum ad hominem.


bwahaha, i've been using linux from around the time i was using Win95 aswell, and i still do like to use linux (preferably debian ofcourse). And also tried almost every distro i came across in the last 10-15 years (decent ones, there thousands, not gonna try them all ) and by far, debian is the best distro of all... ubuntu is just a Debian Sid running their BS desktop manager nowadays (altho the new gnome sucks just as bad)
But I particulary enjoy my time spend trying to setup graphics, intel, nvidia or AMD.. doesnt matter.
For the first time in years tho, Debian Sid actually grabbed the right setup and drivers. Took me a dist-upgrade to Sid to get them working. One flaw of Debian is their stable's are often very old but they are infact... stable as a rock.
But on other distro's, its always a whole quest to get them working,i got it figured out for my desktop setting tho, but on a new or different computer, with a different GfX card, its a whole new quest. Same for allot of apps, that are designed for 1 distro, claim to work on others, but dont work on yours because your distro does not have the right library and is nowhere to be found in the repositories. Good luck average user!
Okay now someone goes for support, best place to get such in linux world, is irc.freenode.org right? Funny how for several distro's, their support channel, you need to have a registered nick. Which is another hill for the average user to cross. and also time consuming. But thats step 1.
they finally are able to enter the support chat.
Few rules here(which most general people do not know)
do NOT mention your a noob, they will actually laugh at you.
do NOT mention your a windows user, they will actually laugh at you.
do NOT mention your running a kernel that is slighly modified, they will actually laugh at you.
do NOT mention in any way, you have a non-linux based device in, or around your household, they will actually laugh at you.
and theres a few more.
i've idled long enough in various support channels, to see this constantly happening.
IF people respond to support requests at all, most channels have vast periods of times where noone responds to any help request.

Now lets try the Microsoft Windows version of this story.

Program/driver installs, doesnt work... call 0800-microsoft, get answer (every windows license has a right to 2 free support calls and some max amount of minutes, 150 or something iirc)

oh wauw and you still wonder majesticly why people use windows over linux.

and if you manage the computers of those around you, dont they often wonder why they cant open certain documents? pdfs? why the latest flash isnt on their system, why they cant play a game of call of duty, wonder where solitaire is hidden, why they cant use outlook, why, why, why... lots more
must keep yourself real busy then

Gaara sama said,

your mixing the truth with liar .. you don't get it right?

You're mixing nonsense and bad spelling

Let me tell you a story about the Apple iPhone 3G.

One day, my company decided to get them for all of its employees. In an effort to save money, they got the 3G instead of the 3GS. 6 months later iOS 4 and the iPhone 4 came out. My iPhone 3G got an update to iOS 4, but basically all it added was a new feature to the home screen (folders) and much slower performance, while 3GS and 4 users got awesome new stuff like multitasking, home screen wallpapers, etc.

Was my iPhone 3G DOA? What about all the many, many Android phones that have never gotten any updates at all? Were they DOA?

People keep forgetting that WP7 has already gotten a VERY major update (WP7.5) and is still getting another update! How is that DOA?

JonathanMarston said,
Let me tell you a story about the Apple iPhone 3G.

One day, my company decided to get them for all of its employees. In an effort to save money, they got the 3G instead of the 3GS. 6 months later iOS 4 and the iPhone 4 came out. My iPhone 3G got an update to iOS 4, but basically all it added was a new feature to the home screen (folders) and much slower performance, while 3GS and 4 users got awesome new stuff like multitasking, home screen wallpapers, etc.

Was my iPhone 3G DOA? What about all the many, many Android phones that have never gotten any updates at all? Were they DOA?

People keep forgetting that WP7 has already gotten a VERY major update (WP7.5) and is still getting another update! How is that DOA?

You just said it yourself, your company got an older model phone knowing full well a newer model was out....Thats not comparable at all to people right now buying a Lumia that has no future

JonathanMarston said,
Let me tell you a story about the Apple iPhone 3G.

1) your story doesn't even relate to what happened with Lumia 900's, so it's useless

2) Apps written for iOS 4 still worked on your 3G, whereas apps written for WP8 do NOT work on WP7 even if they don't use any new API's.

that unifying Microsoft's Windows kernel with its Windows Phone kernel was "always the plan"

This has been Microsoft's strategy since NT itself was designed, this is NOT new to the Windows Phone, nor something the world wasn't told about.

Read the statement, this is about Microsoft's intent to replace WinCE with NT, just as they did the Win9x kernel.

There was never any deception about this, and if you look up the article on Windows 8 WOA, it shows Windows 7 NT running on WP7 hardware. Microsoft didn't hide these pictures.

It has been known since NT was created, and can be tracked to 1995 when Microsoft saw NT 4.0 run 25% faster than Win9x with 32mb of RAM. This surprised even Microsoft as the complexity versus overhead barrier was coming faster than they anticipated. It also shoved the WinCE project as low end variation of NT as a placeholder until hardware caught up to the base overhead NT needs for its object based model.

When WinCE 7.x was in production, at the same time as WP7, Microsoft once again realized that NT was faster than WinCE in specific conditions, which is why WinCE 7.x's release was delayed and hardly mentioned, instead of being a fanfare launch.

WinCE was no longer able to produce any 'compact' advantages when running on Dual-Core devices with 256mb or more. Again, NT passed the current OS in the market, this time for devices, as was planned when WinCE was created, but happened a bit sooner than expected.

WinCE being replaced by NT is the real story, and the intention of Microsoft, but they did not know if it would happen with WP8 or WP9. This is the result of the Windows 8 (WOA) development surprising Microsoft's expectations and on dual-core ARM devices consistently outperformed WinCE.

The second aspect to this story is that NT, a rather robust, heavy, object based, complete OS technology is able to run faster than an optimized low level OS with procedural ties.


This is where the complexity of hardware and software are overcome by the object based OS model of NT, and the overhead of NT is negated by it inherently handing the complexity.

Which is a milestone for Microsoft and a demonstration of where hardware and software complexity are today.

It is also an indication that the industry needs to pay attention, because procedural based OS models like Linux are hitting exponentials with complexity, as their own compensation code is starting to crush them. (This is what killed Win9x and why WinME was heavy and crushed under its own reach for features as well.)


This is not news and is taking information known and twisting it to conflate Microsoft intent as some 'purposeful' deception. Which can be shown to be false rather easily.

If Microsoft KNEW WP8 was going to NT based, why would they devote time and resources creating the Silverlight OS platform model for WP7, instead they would have chosen a more closely aligned WinRT path that the NT based WP8 would fully be able to handle?

Does anyone think they would have purposely created more work for themselves if they KNEW WP8 would be NT based definately?

Would they have wasted time with a parallel development process for WP7's application framework and Windows 8 (WOA) framework, aka Metro/WinRT, when they could have just used a variation of WinRT all along?

Would they have created the WP7 app migration to WP8 that is making them put out a lot of resources to create and maintain the two different application bases, that includes the cloud based compiling/conversion technologies?

Call Microsoft what you want, but at the end of the day they would NEVER have wasted their own time and money on the WP7 Silverlight OS/Application Platform if they knew they would be able to abandon it in one generation.

Microsoft doesn't intentionally throw money away to purposely enrage customers and PO hardware MFRs. That is irrational and illogical...

thenetavenger said,

This has been Microsoft's strategy since NT itself was designed, this is NOT new to the Windows Phone, nor something the world wasn't told about.

Read the statement, this is about Microsoft's intent to replace WinCE with NT, just as they did the Win9x kernel.

There was never any deception about this, and if you look up the article on Windows 8 WOA, it shows Windows 7 NT running on WP7 hardware. Microsoft didn't hide these pictures.

It has been known since NT was created, and can be tracked to 1995 when Microsoft saw NT 4.0 run 25% faster than Win9x with 32mb of RAM. This surprised even Microsoft as the complexity versus overhead barrier was coming faster than they anticipated. It also shoved the WinCE project as low end variation of NT as a placeholder until hardware caught up to the base overhead NT needs for its object based model.

When WinCE 7.x was in production, at the same time as WP7, Microsoft once again realized that NT was faster than WinCE in specific conditions, which is why WinCE 7.x's release was delayed and hardly mentioned, instead of being a fanfare launch.

WinCE was no longer able to produce any 'compact' advantages when running on Dual-Core devices with 256mb or more. Again, NT passed the current OS in the market, this time for devices, as was planned when WinCE was created, but happened a bit sooner than expected.

WinCE being replaced by NT is the real story, and the intention of Microsoft, but they did not know if it would happen with WP8 or WP9. This is the result of the Windows 8 (WOA) development surprising Microsoft's expectations and on dual-core ARM devices consistently outperformed WinCE.

The second aspect to this story is that NT, a rather robust, heavy, object based, complete OS technology is able to run faster than an optimized low level OS with procedural ties.


This is where the complexity of hardware and software are overcome by the object based OS model of NT, and the overhead of NT is negated by it inherently handing the complexity.

Which is a milestone for Microsoft and a demonstration of where hardware and software complexity are today.

It is also an indication that the industry needs to pay attention, because procedural based OS models like Linux are hitting exponentials with complexity, as their own compensation code is starting to crush them. (This is what killed Win9x and why WinME was heavy and crushed under its own reach for features as well.)


This is not news and is taking information known and twisting it to conflate Microsoft intent as some 'purposeful' deception. Which can be shown to be false rather easily.

If Microsoft KNEW WP8 was going to NT based, why would they devote time and resources creating the Silverlight OS platform model for WP7, instead they would have chosen a more closely aligned WinRT path that the NT based WP8 would fully be able to handle?

Does anyone think they would have purposely created more work for themselves if they KNEW WP8 would be NT based definately?

Would they have wasted time with a parallel development process for WP7's application framework and Windows 8 (WOA) framework, aka Metro/WinRT, when they could have just used a variation of WinRT all along?

Would they have created the WP7 app migration to WP8 that is making them put out a lot of resources to create and maintain the two different application bases, that includes the cloud based compiling/conversion technologies?

Call Microsoft what you want, but at the end of the day they would NEVER have wasted their own time and money on the WP7 Silverlight OS/Application Platform if they knew they would be able to abandon it in one generation.

Microsoft doesn't intentionally throw money away to purposely enrage customers and PO hardware MFRs. That is irrational and illogical...

The Difference is you could still upgrade those old machines to Win NT but WP8 is not going to come to WP7 Devices at all. So it is something new specially for microsoft who is obsessed with backward compatibility. additionally wp8 and wp7 are similar platforms nevertheless.

S3P€hR said,

The Difference is you could still upgrade those old machines to Win NT but WP8 is not going to come to WP7 Devices at all. So it is something new specially for microsoft who is obsessed with backward compatibility. additionally wp8 and wp7 are similar platforms nevertheless.


Theres a major difference in hardware there bub. If WP8 wouldrun smooth on the WP7 devices, they would've released it so. netavenger even explained it. NT kernel is in comparison to other kernels (linux- and unix based kernels) a very heavy kernel. And WinCE was also as they called, a micro kernel. which works good on hardware which cant handle a heavier kernel. WP7 hardware will have some troubles running NT as its hardware made for a different kernel type.

NT was designed far for the future. It was outperformed at first by others, hardware is catching up recently, and already no other OS i've used recently (WinXP, Winvista, Win7, win8, ubuntu, debian,opensuse, fedora and a few more) is so fluid, fast at task switching and low on the resources as Win8.
Fedora, debian and ubuntu all ran well over 1GB ram with usually a few % CPU usage when just booted and idling. Ubuntu bakes the cake with 1.6GB of ram. Debian in desktop mode about 1.1, starting it up in CLI only resulted in less then 400mb, but CLI only sucks
Either way, back in WinNT vs Win9x days, the hardware was able to support both. Also because the NT kernel, was allot lighter back then. Altho they should be able to run WP8 if they would strip allot of the objects from the kernel degrading it to NT5 or something might work.

To those making the arguement that MS should have waited to release WP8 instead of 7.0/7.5 because they new eventually they would have to move on to WP8 then your logic would dictate that any company should never release anything new EVER! Since they are usually working on updates/new hardware in tandem with their current releases.

The IPAD1 was released April of 2010 and not 11 months later the IPAD2 was released in March of 2011. You think in that short of a time they decided to make a thinner IPAD with a camera and an updated OS and on top of all of that they were able to secure all the raw material and manufacturing partners to make millions of IPADs on release day?

Most Android users go the HOSE when it comes to upgrades and updates. I moved away from them because over half of their crapastic software was abandoned upon release. Yes blame some of it to the OEM's and the Carriers but Android has a hand in it was well.

I support IOS and WP(x) and have dropped Android all together. They have not innovated in a long time. Even with high end dual core phones they still lag(hello bad optimization of the OS).

WP8 will be MS's time to shine and I think their future is bright. IOS 6 right now is pretty boring and very buggy(i know its beta but even their music app is so flawed and their first beta with the keyboard bug was unusual for Apple).

Glad MS released WP7 and showed how good an optimized OS can be with a single core processor and lower ram. With HD screens and Dual Cores coming out it should just fly.

ALL WP7 apps work on WP8 so why are you saying there defragmenting it? Sure WP8 apps wont work with WP7 but i bet theyll be hidden from WP7 users so we wont know the difference anyway.

If ppl want to drop there WP support go ahead, go back to your crapple devices where the next law suites will come in the form of another mobile using induction charging that apple created well lets be honest stole again, or your stupid android devices that still run 2.3. sure high ends get an upgrade to ICS but its always when then when 4.1 is released to other devices except nexus how long will that take before the carriers release it.

by the time i get a WP8 phone in 2014 itll be running 2nd gen hardware which will prolly destroy the competition. Lets see if your support stays dropped when it blows away an iphone 6 or galaxy 4 or 5.

see ya wheeenever

psionicinversion said,
ALL WP7 apps work on WP8 so why are you saying there defragmenting it? Sure WP8 apps wont work with WP7 but i bet theyll be hidden from WP7 users so we wont know the difference anyway.

If ppl want to drop there WP support go ahead, go back to your crapple devices where the next law suites will come in the form of another mobile using induction charging that apple created well lets be honest stole again, or your stupid android devices that still run 2.3. sure high ends get an upgrade to ICS but its always when then when 4.1 is released to other devices except nexus how long will that take before the carriers release it.

by the time i get a WP8 phone in 2014 itll be running 2nd gen hardware which will prolly destroy the competition. Lets see if your support stays dropped when it blows away an iphone 6 or galaxy 4 or 5.

see ya wheeenever

There are an awful lot of IF's that need to be met 2 years down the road for your statement to be true about blowing the competition away. I find it hard to believe WP8 2 years from now will blow either Droid or iOS away when Droid hasnt been able to beat iOS in 4 years,

psionicinversion said,
ALL WP7 apps work on WP8 so why are you saying there defragmenting it? Sure WP8 apps wont work with WP7 but i bet theyll be hidden from WP7 users so we wont know the difference anyway.

If ppl want to drop there WP support go ahead, go back to your crapple devices where the next law suites will come in the form of another mobile using induction charging that apple created well lets be honest stole again, or your stupid android devices that still run 2.3. sure high ends get an upgrade to ICS but its always when then when 4.1 is released to other devices except nexus how long will that take before the carriers release it.

by the time i get a WP8 phone in 2014 itll be running 2nd gen hardware which will prolly destroy the competition. Lets see if your support stays dropped when it blows away an iphone 6 or galaxy 4 or 5.

see ya wheeenever

regardless, any developer will target both unless they can't. makes no sense not to until the marketshare of wp8 surpases that of wp7 to make it financialy impossible to develop wp7 apps. as it stands, if you're a dev and want to make money, just write it for wp7 that it will work on 8.

neonspark said,

regardless, any developer will target both unless they can't. makes no sense not to until the marketshare of wp8 surpases that of wp7 to make it financialy impossible to develop wp7 apps.

Exactly. It's not like the day WP8 comes out there won't be any more WP7 apps. Unless it's an app that specifically requires the new features of WP8 (native code, VOIP integration, etc) it would be silly for a developer to lock out WP7 users.

JonathanMarston said,

Exactly. It's not like the day WP8 comes out there won't be any more WP7 apps. Unless it's an app that specifically requires the new features of WP8 (native code, VOIP integration, etc) it would be silly for a developer to lock out WP7 users.

Yeah but WP8 marketshare will simply surpass WP7 in a matter of months. The 4% marketshare that shows up in statistics inludes the WinMo platform, so WP7 handsets are not that many. Add to that, the cross combatability of WP8 specific apps with Windows8 RT platform and I 'll give a 6 month grace period before every developer starts coding for the WP8 core and not WP7

JonathanMarston said,

Android phones have 50% share, iPhone has 30%. Sounds like Android wins... http://www.bgr.com/2012/07/02/...share-us-smartphone-iphone/

I meant performance wise, try reading and following your own conversation please. There is no need to knee jerk and throw out the android pwn statistics. Its also widely known and accepted that MOST of those android phones that make up the 50% are either freebie giveaways or very low cost starter phones. The % of Android based phones that are comparable to the iPhone are much less % wise.

psionicinversion said,
ALL WP7 apps work on WP8 so why are you saying there defragmenting it? Sure WP8 apps wont work with WP7 but i bet theyll be hidden from WP7 users so we wont know the difference anyway.

You obviously know nothing about fragmentation. Android is EXACTLY like this.

Apps written for Android 2.3 work on Android 4.0, but apps written on 4.0 don't work for 2.3.

Just like apps written for WP7 work on WP8, but apps written for WP8 don't work for WP7.

However apps written for iOS 6 work on devices running iOS 6. Apple's method is a lot better. I hate Apple, but they've done a better job in that aspect.

andrewbares said,

You obviously know nothing about fragmentation. Android is EXACTLY like this.

Apps written for Android 2.3 work on Android 4.0, but apps written on 4.0 don't work for 2.3.

Just like apps written for WP7 work on WP8, but apps written for WP8 don't work for WP7.

However apps written for iOS 6 work on devices running iOS 6. Apple's method is a lot better. I hate Apple, but they've done a better job in that aspect.


haha, no they wont,allot of apps are phone specific. doesnt matter much what android version your running.

I think it would be simultaneously very exciting and very frustrating to be on the Zune team or the Windows Phone team. On the one hand, you know about tons of very cool features and really ground-breaking things that will be coming. On the other hand, you start out with a sub-par system that contains just enough hint of the great things to come that it actually becomes *more* frustrating to deal with. It's like you have the rocket engines from the space shuttle, but you're limited to flying below 3,000 feet.

Having said that, I'm very excited about WP8. Going to finally ditch the iPhone for this one, I think. Also, glad I didn't get a Lumia.

zeroomegazx said,
So is this ZUNE part 2? MS should not have gone this path and especially not admitted it. No longer a WP supporter.

microsoft never made a single windows phone device so how it is like their zune mp3 player? you speak nonsense.

zeroomegazx said,
So is this ZUNE part 2? MS should not have gone this path and especially not admitted it. No longer a WP supporter.

Your sense for business logic is located somewhere beneath sea-level.

recursive said,

No, they paid a certain company a billion dollars to make one instead.

No this is part 3. Part 2 was the Kin.

Or part 4, WinMo/Zune/Kin now WP

i knew it all along. that is why wp7 was based on ****in silverlight. they wanted to at least get omething out there so it looks like theyre trying so we dont get useless crappy articles everywhere saying something like microsoft submits to mobile markets,or microsoft cant compete.

all along theyve been developing wp8 and threw wp7 out there to at least get people familiar with the interface and this new concept.

theyve already gotten 100,000 apps and millions in a base, thats a good jumpstart to a new platform wp8.

people that are mad that they wont get an update to wp8 shouldnt be. if you bought your phone in the last 6 month, then you wouldve heard the rumors and should have held back. it your own fault. companies dont have to release upgrades according to when you bought your phone.

They needed to get something to market and WinPho 7 was the answer, it's established itself, let's home WinPho 8 can do better :-)

Antaris said,
They needed to get something to market and WinPho 7 was the answer, it's established itself, let's home WinPho 8 can do better :-)

..... and last longer....

So in 2009 Microsoft realized they had to completely revamp their mobile strategy, ditching Windows Mobile in favor of Windows Phone. However, Microsoft knew where they wanted to go but Windows 8 wasn't even close to being ready. Microsoft knew they couldn't wait 3 years to release a competitive product, not with Apple and Google gobbling up the market. So they focused on WP7. Good for Microsoft because it allowed them to build up strategic partnerships (Nokia), establish the third largest ecosystem (100K apps), and develop a relationship with the carriers (AT&T/T-Mobile). And they got to do it over the course of 3 years as opposed to starting with nothing had they waited until Windows 8 was ready. Now that's bad for users because the longevity of WP7 will rest in the hands of developers. And yeah, you can look at it from a glass half full or half empty perspective, but if all you want to do is rehash old arguments then just admit that you will never be happy and MOVE ON.

Figure 8 Dash said,
So in 2009 Microsoft realized they had to completely revamp their mobile strategy, ditching Windows Mobile in favor of Windows Phone. However, Microsoft knew where they wanted to go but Windows 8 wasn't even close to being ready. Microsoft knew they couldn't wait 3 years to release a competitive product, not with Apple and Google gobbling up the market. So they focused on WP7. Good for Microsoft because it allowed them to build up strategic partnerships (Nokia), establish the third largest ecosystem (100K apps), and develop a relationship with the carriers (AT&T/T-Mobile). And they got to do it over the course of 3 years as opposed to starting with nothing had they waited until Windows 8 was ready. Now that's bad for users because the longevity of WP7 will rest in the hands of developers. And yeah, you can look at it from a glass half full or half empty perspective, but if all you want to do is rehash old arguments then just admit that you will never be happy and MOVE ON.

yup. if they had waited, they'd have 120K apps less and 0 marketshare instead of 4%. windows phone 8 is getting a huge leap forward thanks to what was done with wp7. it was a brilliant strategy to make lemonade out of the lemons of being so late. Anything else would have been worse than where they are now.

off course they could have just not been late but then again google could have done facebook

neonspark said,
yup. if they had waited, they'd have 120K apps less and 0 marketshare instead of 4%. windows phone 8 is getting a huge leap forward thanks to what was done with wp7. it was a brilliant strategy to make lemonade out of the lemons of being so late. Anything else would have been worse than where they are now.

If they waited, they could have probably released WP8 6 months earlier with all the extra manpower from the WP7 team. The only thing they would have missed out on was an existing collection of apps.

It's not DOA... It's not going to get upgraded. It will be supported for the life of the phone. How is this DOA? Article title is misleading. "Knew it would be outdated" or "Knew it wouldn't be upgraded to 8" is better. Like the person above me, by that logic all kinds of things are DOA. I'm not shocked in any capacity about WP7 and WP8.

I still stand by my idea that current adopters (Lumia 900/800/710 and such) should be offered an upgrade discount based on when they purchased their devices and MS should eat the cost. Just sayin'. It's the right thing to do.

laserfloyd said,
It's not DOA... It's not going to get upgraded. It will be supported for the life of the phone. How is this DOA? Article title is misleading. "Knew it would be outdated" or "Knew it wouldn't be upgraded to 8" is better. Like the person above me, by that logic all kinds of things are DOA. I'm not shocked in any capacity about WP7 and WP8.

I don't agree with that.

Yes, technology evolves and eventually old hardware won't be able to run new software. But that's not the same as specifically going for a product that you'll intentionally bury regardless of the technology.

But if they knew all along why didn't they make the hardware capable of running WP8? If they did why don't they let people upgrade to WP8?

If the technology isn't capable, then it isn't capable, and i'm fine with that(And i'm quite impressed that they chose to backport a lot of the functionality, btw) but there's something fishy about not even the Lumia 900 taking into account Windows Phone 8.

I still stand by my idea that current adopters (Lumia 900/800/710 and such) should be offered an upgrade discount based on when they purchased their devices and MS should eat the cost. Just sayin'. It's the right thing to do.

Yeah, totally agree there.

FISKER_Q said,

I don't agree with that.

Yes, technology evolves and eventually old hardware won't be able to run new software. But that's not the same as specifically going for a product that you'll intentionally bury regardless of the technology.

But if they knew all along why didn't they make the hardware capable of running WP8? If they did why don't they let people upgrade to WP8?

If the technology isn't capable, then it isn't capable, and i'm fine with that(And i'm quite impressed that they chose to backport a lot of the functionality, btw) but there's something fishy about not even the Lumia 900 taking into account Windows Phone 8.

Yeah, totally agree there.

Because the new OS will require secure boot and an TPM, along with a few other features that are nothing to do with the TYPE of processor but EVERYTHING to do with the chipsets and the features they contain.

duddit2 said,

Because the new OS will require secure boot and an TPM, along with a few other features that are nothing to do with the TYPE of processor but EVERYTHING to do with the chipsets and the features they contain.

Ah, thanks for the heads up, didn't realize it was something simple like that

Still makes me wonder why they didn't atleast have the Lumia 900 developed with that in mind though.

FISKER_Q said,
Still makes me wonder why they didn't atleast have the Lumia 900 developed with that in mind though.

And makes me wonder why Nokia would release commericals saying that the beta test is over, when in fact WP7 was practically one beta test and we're just NOW going to be getting real Windows Phones.

I lol at the trolls. Everyone asks for the OS to support hardware changes like dual cpu's and larger screen sizes. Then when they announce the new OS will support hardware changes everyone starts complaining because their old hardware isn't fully supported. Your still getting software changes with at least one big update (WP7.8). They will never be happy.

Gaffney said,
I lol at the trolls. Everyone asks for the OS to support hardware changes like dual cpu's and larger screen sizes. Then when they announce the new OS will support hardware changes everyone starts complaining because their old hardware isn't fully supported. Your still getting software changes with at least one big update (WP7.8). They will never be happy.
^this. People are soooo trolling.
Also WP7 isn't abandoned, we still have at least one major update incoming.

Anthonyd said,
^this. People are soooo trolling.
Also WP7 isn't abandoned, we still have at least one major update incoming.

Yeah a new start screen. BIG update.

/sarcasm

r1ddl3r said,

Yeah a new start screen. BIG update.

/sarcasm

That's only what they have said for sure, there is more to be announced regarding the 7.8 update...

duddit2 said,

That's only what they have said for sure, there is more to be announced regarding the 7.8 update...

Do you REALLY believe that there will be anything else? Microsoft wants everyone and their mother to buy a WP8, not extend the WP7 devices lifespan.

r1ddl3r said,

Do you REALLY believe that there will be anything else? Microsoft wants everyone and their mother to buy a WP8, not extend the WP7 devices lifespan.

Then why are they releasing 7.8? WP7 has such low marketshare than it wouldn't prevent everyone and their mother from buying a WP8.

rfirth said,

Then why are they releasing 7.8? WP7 has such low marketshare than it wouldn't prevent everyone and their mother from buying a WP8.

Cause they don't wanna lose the average Lumia 900 buyer. Sugar coated pill for the average Joe.

r1ddl3r said,

Do you REALLY believe that there will be anything else?

Do you REALLY believe that there will NOT be anything else?

Gaffney said,
I lol at the trolls. Everyone asks for the OS to support hardware changes like dual cpu's and larger screen sizes. Then when they announce the new OS will support hardware changes everyone starts complaining because their old hardware isn't fully supported. Your still getting software changes with at least one big update (WP7.8). They will never be happy.

Most of the people complaining are iPhone and Android owners and I understand because they are the ones who are really being ****ed, so they will take any opportunity to take a stab at WP.

r1ddl3r said,

Cause they don't wanna lose the average Lumia 900 buyer. Sugar coated pill for the average Joe.


no they're updating an OS that they still support.
they're still updating WinXP, which is more like WinMO6 then WP7 is to WP8.
they give their older OS's still the latest and greatest their OS supports. It is what you will get with your WP7, dont worry. you'll get the goodies the OS can carry that is part of WP8. And what you wont get... your phone wont be able to use it anyways.. big whoop.

WP7 is a transition OS, just like Vista was. and what Win8 will be in the desktop/laptop market.

Usign this logic.. the first iPad and iPhone was dead on arrival. Older Android versions and devices were dead on arrival..

PmRd said,
Usign this logic.. the first iPad and iPhone was dead on arrival. Older Android versions and devices were dead on arrival..

Thats quite hilarious. The iPad 1 has had 2 full OS version updates as well as incremental updates in iOS5. Hardly DOA. I have all 3 models and still use my iPad1 daily for things at home. Its still a very capable and UP TO DATE (2+ years later) device.

zeroomegazx said,

Thats quite hilarious. The iPad 1 has had 2 full OS version updates as well as incremental updates in iOS5. Hardly DOA. I have all 3 models and still use my iPad1 daily for things at home. Its still a very capable and UP TO DATE (2+ years later) device.

The only thing hilarious is that you did not understand what I meant in my post. And I would harldy call the iOS updates "full OS updates"

zeroomegazx said,

Thats quite hilarious. The iPad 1 has had 2 full OS version updates as well as incremental updates in iOS5. Hardly DOA. I have all 3 models and still use my iPad1 daily for things at home. Its still a very capable and UP TO DATE (2+ years later) device.

categorically false for older apple devices don't support all features. you can't get siri on all. you can't get voice nav on all. you can't get everything on older devices. Apple may as well call iOS 5.6 for these devices instead of iOS6 because, well you're not really getting all!

The first iPad won't even be upgradable to iOS6... Apple are forcing people to buy new devices. Saying it's not powerful enough is pure bull**** because the 3GS is getting the update and it's less powerful than the iPad

PmRd said,
The first iPad won't even be upgradable to iOS6... Apple are forcing people to buy new devices. Saying it's not powerful enough is pure bull**** because the 3GS is getting the update and it's less powerful than the iPad

The iPad 1 is also over 2 years old, WP7 isn't even a year yet. Stop ignoring this fact. its been updated solid for 2 years. Even the iPod 3rd Gen is up to date. No they don't have Siri but they HAVE ALL gotten most of the important added features.

zeroomegazx said,

WP7 isn't even a year yet.
LOL!! Are your really that dumb? Check your facts.

WP7 came out 7 months after the first iPad. And like I said Apple has INTENTIONALY prevented the iPad from being updatable to iOS6

PmRd said,

The only thing hilarious is that you did not understand what I meant in my post. And I would harldy call the iOS updates "full OS updates"

Here's the difference: Even if it's not a "full OS upgrade", it'll still run apps developed for iOS 6. Unless the developer targets some special new API and locks it out, of course, but that's not very common.

On the other hand, anything developed for Windows Phone 8 will not run on Windows Phone 7.

lunarworks said,

Here's the difference: Even if it's not a "full OS upgrade", it'll still run apps developed for iOS 6. Unless the developer targets some special new API and locks it out, of course, but that's not very common.

On the other hand, anything developed for Windows Phone 8 will not run on Windows Phone 7.

Developers will keep on making apps targeting WP7 if the app does not need any of the WP8 features. So your argument is invalid

zeroomegazx said,

The iPad 1 is also over 2 years old, WP7 isn't even a year yet. Stop ignoring this fact

You do know that the iPad 1 is only a few months older than the first WP7 devices, right? Obviously not if you think WP7 is less than a year old. It's nearly 2 years old.

Dafuq with you people?!
Do you even realize that there are many changes between apps? It's not like an iOS 6 app will magically work with iOS5 and iOS4 if the code has changed.

PmRd said,
Usign this logic.. the first iPad and iPhone was dead on arrival. Older Android versions and devices were dead on arrival..

Yeah lets compare an entire line of phones (WP7) with a single tablet, lol...Microsoft let you down, its ok

Sonne said,

Yeah lets compare an entire line of phones (WP7) with a single tablet, lol...Microsoft let you down, its ok

What what and what? Learn to read and think before you post. Microsoft let me down? LOL.. Absolutely not.

It's threads like these that show how stupid and clueless some people are.

recursive said,

Absolutely. Trolls like you that is.

You again, still stalking me. You want my picture or something? Don't you have kernels to compile or something to root? Go away.

PmRd said,

Developers will keep on making apps targeting WP7 if the app does not need any of the WP8 features. So your argument is invalid

Not true. WP8 has native code, which many developers want. I bet you that 4 months after WP8 is released, your WP7 phone won't be getting many new apps (aside from the spam ones useless developers release like a different app for every music artist that simply shows their twitter feed.

andrewbares said,

Not true. WP8 has native code, which many developers want. I bet you that 4 months after WP8 is released, your WP7 phone won't be getting many new apps (aside from the spam ones useless developers release like a different app for every music artist that simply shows their twitter feed.

I can assure you that most developers don't care about native code.

andrewbares said,

Not true. WP8 has native code, which many developers want. I bet you that 4 months after WP8 is released, your WP7 phone won't be getting many new apps (aside from the spam ones useless developers release like a different app for every music artist that simply shows their twitter feed.

Haha most will not care about native code, they want the API's and framework! some apps will benefit and potentially need native but lets not assume its a widely feature. It will be mainly games, and yes it will be cool, and yes the apps that need it will benefit wildly, but these apps are not in massive numbers.

PmRd said,

I can assure you that most developers don't care about native code.


besides that, in visual studio, you can select the WP7 kernel instead of the WP8 kernel, and press compile to churn out a WP7 package for that application.

That's a pretty damning statement to make, and I don't see it filling potential future customers with a great deal of hope.

Javik said,
That's a pretty damning statement to make, and I don't see it filling potential future customers with a great deal of hope.

luckly for them, potential customers don't know a thing about this and never will. they got these things called...jobs and lives that keep them busy enough to pay attention to crap like this.

neonspark said,

Judging from your comment here and the one above it you are either saying that:
1. All WP users are dumber than a brick or
2. You are a hypocrite as you complain about Android yet back WP for the same problem.

recursive said,
Judging from your comment here and the one above it you are either saying that:
1. All WP users are dumber than a brick or
2. You are a hypocrite as you complain about Android yet back WP for the same problem.

Judging from your comment, you know very little about the target market WP is aiming at.

WP isn't for US, the techies - the nerds - the geeks.

WP is for the AVERAGE CONSUMER, a.k.a. your parents, the hot blonde chick in your class, the football star with a C in math class, etc.

Those people don't know or care about these stories. They buy what looks good and does cool stuff like plays Draw Something.

Good example, considering Draw Something isn't even an option for WP users at this point.

/s

andrewbares said,

Judging from your comment, you know very little about the target market WP is aiming at.

WP isn't for US, the techies - the nerds - the geeks.

WP is for the AVERAGE CONSUMER, a.k.a. your parents, the hot blonde chick in your class, the football star with a C in math class, etc.

Those people don't know or care about these stories. They buy what looks good and does cool stuff like plays Draw Something.

PR Pro Tip: If you're developing a product you know will be DOA on release, maybe you shouldn't be developing it, or you should be fixing it to make it sellable. Also, if you do release it, it's never wise to admit that you had no hope of it selling in the first place.

Dot Matrix said,
PR Pro Tip: If you're developing a product you know will be DOA on release, maybe you shouldn't be developing it, or you should be fixing it to make it sellable. Also, if you do release it, it's never wise to admit that you had no hope of it selling in the first place.

Actually, the reasoning behind developing Windows Phone 7 makes sense. They needed to get a new product out there, and they couldn't just cede the mobile market to iOS and Android. If there was no way to get Windows Phone 8 out the door sooner, then I don't think there's much else they could have done. There's no way they could have been even remotely competitive with Windows Mobile.

I mean, yes, it sucks for people who bought Windows Phone 7 devices, but at the same time that's the nature of technology.

Dot Matrix said,
PR Pro Tip: If you're developing a product you know will be DOA on release, maybe you shouldn't be developing it, or you should be fixing it to make it sellable. Also, if you do release it, it's never wise to admit that you had no hope of it selling in the first place.

stop giving out pro tips, your not a pro

Anthony Tosie said,

Actually, the reasoning behind developing Windows Phone 7 makes sense. They needed to get a new product out there, and they couldn't just cede the mobile market to iOS and Android. If there was no way to get Windows Phone 8 out the door sooner, then I don't think there's much else they could have done. There's no way they could have been even remotely competitive with Windows Mobile.

I mean, yes, it sucks for people who bought Windows Phone 7 devices, but at the same time that's the nature of technology.

Pro Tip, Don't Fragment your mobile OS devices... MS should have waited and not risked isolating all of the apps they wanted created to compete with iOS and Android to not be compatible with WP8+. This was a poor decision and I am dropping support for WP7+ from now on.

zeroomegazx said,

Pro Tip, Don't Fragment your mobile OS devices... MS should have waited and not risked isolating all of the apps they wanted created to compete with iOS and Android to not be compatible with WP8+. This was a poor decision and I am dropping support for WP7+ from now on.

Fragmentation would have been the opposite of what they've done here. The current apps/phones work well and will receive a final large update at the time when WP8 arrives, the apps will still work and its all good. At upgrade time you can then get a device running WP8 and get access to the new native code apps (mainly games). This is no different than apple allowing IOS on older devices with missing features, WP7.5 will get an upgrade, just not the full upgrade, and some apps that take advantage of the things that only WP8 has wont be available on the older devices - same thing.

zeroomegazx said,

Pro Tip, Don't Fragment your mobile OS devices... MS should have waited and not risked isolating all of the apps they wanted created to compete with iOS and Android to not be compatible with WP8+. This was a poor decision and I am dropping support for WP7+ from now on.

Apps aren't isolated. It's the users stuck on two year contracts who just bought WP7 devices that are.

duddit2 said,

Fragmentation would have been the opposite of what they've done here. The current apps/phones work well and will receive a final large update at the time when WP8 arrives, the apps will still work and its all good. At upgrade time you can then get a device running WP8 and get access to the new native code apps (mainly games). This is no different than apple allowing IOS on older devices with missing features, WP7.5 will get an upgrade, just not the full upgrade, and some apps that take advantage of the things that only WP8 has wont be available on the older devices - same thing.

right and fragmentation is what android has where they have different phones that don't work with all aps that don't work with all OSs that don't work with all phones. now that is android fragmentation.

Dot Matrix said,

Apps aren't isolated. It's the users stuck on two year contracts who just bought WP7 devices that are.

Anyone that got tied into a 2 year contract knowing full well Windows Phone 8 would be dropping in the near future doesn't have a right to cry about it. What is with consumers buying products by what may come in the future. If the phone was right for you when you bought it, it'll still be right for you when the next version comes out. The only thing that will have changed is the "it's not the coolest, newest, flashiest phone on the market" attitude.

I got an Omnia 7 last year and have absolutely loved every minute of it. Am I bummed it won't get upgraded to 8? No. It's performed flawlessly since I picked it up and will continue to do so even after WP8 drops.

Anthony Tosie said,

Actually, the reasoning behind developing Windows Phone 7 makes sense. They needed to get a new product out there, and they couldn't just cede the mobile market to iOS and Android. If there was no way to get Windows Phone 8 out the door sooner, then I don't think there's much else they could have done. There's no way they could have been even remotely competitive with Windows Mobile.

I mean, yes, it sucks for people who bought Windows Phone 7 devices, but at the same time that's the nature of technology.

It sucks for people who bought the Lumia series at least, I've had my WP7 since release, so it's about time I would like a new phone anyway. I would be annoyed if I spent the money recently though, although I much prefer WP to android or iOS so the only reason I would move away from it is principle.

zeroomegazx said,

Pro Tip, Don't Fragment your mobile OS devices... MS should have waited and not risked isolating all of the apps they wanted created to compete with iOS and Android to not be compatible with WP8+. This was a poor decision and I am dropping support for WP7+ from now on.


If they waited until now, their mobile OS would have zero apps instead of 100,000. It would be DOA.

dagamer34 said,

If they waited until now, their mobile OS would have zero apps instead of 100,000. It would be DOA.

That's true about the apps.... that's the only valid reason for doing this though.

Otherwise if they just focused on WP8, they could have likely released it half a year sooner than what it is now.

Sranshaft said,

Anyone that got tied into a 2 year contract knowing full well Windows Phone 8 would be dropping in the near future doesn't have a right to cry about it.

Up until a few weeks ago, most people were under the (now mistaken) impression that WP7 phones would be upgradeable to WP8. If someone bought them before that announcement, then they have every right to be ****ed off.

andrewbares said,

That's true about the apps.... that's the only valid reason for doing this though.

Otherwise if they just focused on WP8, they could have likely released it half a year sooner than what it is now.

Which part of 'shared kernel with the unfinished windows 8' do you not get?

I'm glad they didn't wait to release something, and this is pretty obvious that Win 8 was the real OS, and the "we", the hardcore loyalists, were in fact, beta testers all this time. We should be rewarded for our loyalty, ALL OF US, by receiving new handsets this fall, at new Contract Prices. I'd like that.

jimmyfal said,
I'm glad they didn't wait to release something, and this is pretty obvious that Win 8 was the real OS, and the "we", the hardcore loyalists, were in fact, beta testers all this time. We should be rewarded for our loyalty, ALL OF US, by receiving new handsets this fall, at new Contract Prices. I'd like that.

I'd like free handset, but think about this. Beta testers? the phones we have will still work, the apps we have bought will still work and when we upgrade will simply install onto them. We are getting new features on our existing devices in 7.8 (and we don't know what will be included yet).

MS played the right hand here, they had to get involved with a new phone OS and the new UX needed to be seen and played with.

And the reason I think this statement was released via interview, they want to make the world know that WP8 is going to be the serious contender, sharing the same kernel as the main OS means we wont get the same generational shift simply because it will tie in hand in hand with the whole eco system of windows and not simply run parallel.

jimmyfal said,
I'm glad they didn't wait to release something, and this is pretty obvious that Win 8 was the real OS, and the "we", the hardcore loyalists, were in fact, beta testers all this time. We should be rewarded for our loyalty, ALL OF US, by receiving new handsets this fall, at new Contract Prices. I'd like that.

technically you're not a beta tester because you didn't get to beta test windows phone 8

neonspark said,

technically you're not a beta tester because you didn't get to beta test windows phone 8

Ok "beta testers" might be over stating it a bit, but I have gone from Pocket PC and being pretty frustrated about the total lack of finger functionality and pinch to zoom on websites, to then being steamrolled over by IPHONE, having to wait years for a "from the ground up" OS, living through v1 of WinPho7 till we got to Mango which was good enough but still lacked security features, apps, and "native code" for all the complaining game devs. Losing turn by turn navigation, voice functions, and Outlook desktop sync ( I know about cloud sync) that were available in v 6.5., and then finally getting to Lumia 900, which had the audacity to feature "carl zeiss" on the label but still had a less than Titan camera.

I'm just feeling like I have paid my dues as a WinPho fan. I'm ready for some serious payback. And yes, I said fan, because in the end it's just sports for me, it's not life and death, but I want to see MS succeed. I have my own reasons for that.

jimmyfal said,

Ok "beta testers" might be over stating it a bit, but I have gone from Pocket PC and being pretty frustrated about the total lack of finger functionality and pinch to zoom on websites, to then being steamrolled over by IPHONE, having to wait years for a "from the ground up" OS, living through v1 of WinPho7 till we got to Mango which was good enough but still lacked security features, apps, and "native code" for all the complaining game devs. Losing turn by turn navigation, voice functions, and Outlook desktop sync ( I know about cloud sync) that were available in v 6.5., and then finally getting to Lumia 900, which had the audacity to feature "carl zeiss" on the label but still had a less than Titan camera.

The Lumia 900 was one big beta test... terrible camera, the scrolling was choppy and not smooth like other WP devices, etc.

I always knew Nokia's "beta test" commercials were a terrible idea. Trashing the competition when your product is no better is a really bad move.

I agree, they need to figure out a bundle or upgrade discount for us early adopters that had faith in the platform (and still do). I'm not that worried about it though, my WP7 still rocks.

r1ddl3r said,
So many words to say "Yeah, we knew we were going to F everyone, that choose to support us from the start"

don't get an android phone then. getting 1 upgrade is rare. getting 3 like 1st gen windows phones do is completely unheard of. if that's Fing everybody, well then I guess you should own no phone.

r1ddl3r said,
So many words to say "Yeah, we knew we were going to F everyone, that choose to support us from the start"

Eh, I don't see it that way. My phone still functions and functions great. Now if they chose to release WP7 and not support it in any way shape or form but that hasn't been the case. There have been several updates and fixes.

neonspark said,

don't get an android phone then. getting 1 upgrade is rare. getting 3 like 1st gen windows phones do is completely unheard of. if that's Fing everybody, well then I guess you should own no phone.

I have a Samsung Focus S. I got 1 upgrade and I 'll get a new start screen. Lumia 900 users will get a new start screen and a phone that will get no new features than that start screen for the remaining 1.5year that they will be stuck with their ATT contract.

I call that a major screw up. Since the Lumia was advertized as "the beta is over" device. Beta? Noooo!!! Just a bonafide shaft up their arse

As for the android comment, Nexus S got 3 new upgrades (including the latest JellyBean), Galaxy Nexus will get JellyBean in a few days and Key Lime Pie @ Q1 2013 and 18 months (at least) of updates. So yeah, 18 months vs 12 or 6 months for the Lumia 900 folks, makes an easy choice. And I didn't even mentions the Apple 3GS-2years-updates=iOS6 thingy.

WindowsPhone8 is shapping to be a worthy competitor, but that's not an excuse for the WindpwsPhone 7 screw up.

All that from a consumer standpoint.

r1ddl3r said,
Lumia 900 users will get a new start screen and a phone that will get no new features than that start screen for the remaining 1.5year that they will be stuck with their ATT contract.

The start screen is the only new feature that has been confirmed officially. Not having any other new features is pure speculation.

r1ddl3r said,
As for the android comment, Nexus S got 3 new upgrades (including the latest JellyBean), Galaxy Nexus will get JellyBean in a few days and Key Lime Pie @ Q1 2013 and 18 months (at least) of updates. So yeah, 18 months vs 12 or 6 months for the Lumia 900 folks, makes an easy choice.

There's many more Androids out there besides those few models.. most of which have yet to see an update, and probably a good bet some never will. At least officially anyway, they'll have to rely on a third party hack.

Max Norris said,

The start screen is the only new feature that has been confirmed officially. Not having any other new features is pure speculation.

As much speculation that there will be other features. Judging by their past actions, I 'd say new start screen and that's it.

Max Norris said,
There's many more Androids out there besides those few models.. most of which have yet to see an update, and probably a good bet some never will. At least officially anyway, they'll have to rely on a third party hack.

Yet to see an update? Well there are some, but that's due to the freedom given to the OEM's to put whatever SoC they could make a deal, not enough RAM etc. Microsoft had their chassis specs so tightly controlled in order to roll out updates more efficiently and effortlessly. And at the end of the day, I you are gonna screw me, give me the option to try to fix it myself like Android ROM flashing does.

But NO!

neonspark said,

don't get an android phone then. getting 1 upgrade is rare. getting 3 like 1st gen windows phones do is completely unheard of. if that's Fing everybody, well then I guess you should own no phone.


You shouldn't measure a device by how many upgrades it gets. Sure if you got a 1st gen Windows Phone you got 3 updates, because you started out so far behind everyone else in features you needed them just to close the gap. Heck you still can't do basic things like have Skype (now a MS product) running in the background so you can actually receive calls. Now I'm not saying WP doesn't have it's perks. It has a beautiful UI is fast (especially considering the now dated hardware) and I believe people should use whatever they feel more comfortable with but saying an OS is good or bad because of the number of updates it gets is just silly.

neonspark said,

don't get an android phone then. getting 1 upgrade is rare.

That's a complete lie and you know it. Many devices are getting the ICS update or have received it already, unlike WP7 devices which will never get WP8, even ones that sold just this month.

And remember Microsoft has a history of abandoning mobile platforms. KIN, Zune, WinMob, and now WP7. Who in their right mind would risk buying into a Microsoft platform at this point?

Whatever happened to the promise that Microsoft would never abandon WP7? Yeah that didn't last long..

simplezz said,
Many devices are getting the ICS update or have received it already, unlike WP7 devices which will never get WP8, even ones that sold just this month.

Latest reported at 10%. Not exactly a majority.

simplezz said,
Whatever happened to the promise that Microsoft would never abandon WP7? Yeah that didn't last long..

WP7 is still getting updates.. hardly abandoned.

Lets turn this around. I have an Android tablet that a friend dumped on me. It was purely designed to be as cheap as possible. He was going to either give it to me or throw it away. It's forever stuck at Android 1.5, not even Cyanogenmod will save it. The reason it can't be updated? The hardware won't handle it. And yet Android moves on with new things. If I actually spent money on the thing I'd be saying the exact same thing.. Android abandoned me, stabbed me in the back, what happened to updates, and all that good stuff. It's ok for Android manufacturers to do the exact same thing but it's so wrong when Microsoft does it?

simplezz said,

That's a complete lie and you know it. Many devices are getting the ICS update or have received it already, unlike WP7 devices which will never get WP8, even ones that sold just this month.

And remember Microsoft has a history of abandoning mobile platforms. KIN, Zune, WinMob, and now WP7. Who in their right mind would risk buying into a Microsoft platform at this point?

Whatever happened to the promise that Microsoft would never abandon WP7? Yeah that didn't last long..


howcome 2.3 is still the most used android version? tons and tons of phones never even gotten a single update, let alone a full upgrade. its a small % of androids who get updates or upgrades, and mostly only the flagship phones.

Geranium_Z__NL said,
it wasnt dead in my eyes? I liked the OS on my phone? it worked great the time I had it

It's a very good OS. I'm definitely looking forward to upgrading with WP8.

M_Lyons10 said,
It's a very good OS. I'm definitely looking forward to upgrading with WP8.

Same -- I'm quite happy with mine, got bored with the "yet another Android" market (and my old ones are still grossly out of date for updates), and iOS just didn't do it for me.

M_Lyons10 said,

It's a very good OS. I'm definitely looking forward to upgrading with WP8.

If they follow suit with their desktop OS then Windows Phone 7 was good, phone 8 will suck. Might as well wait for Phone 9
Of course I'm joking, I'm expecting much from Windows 8 all versions

I probably wouldn't have admitted to that At least they are making concessions by adding in WP8 features for the 7.8 update!

Neobond said,
I probably wouldn't have admitted to that At least they are making concessions by adding in WP8 features for the 7.8 update!

Considering Windows 8 has been running off of ARM chips since January 2010 before Windows Phone 7 was announced, you really only needs to put 2 + 2 together to see this was how it was all along.

Perhaps the only wish they might have had was Qualcomm releasing their S4 chips early enough to be in the Lumia 900 so it could have gotten the upgrade, but it's too late now.

dagamer34 said,
.....

Pretty sure ARM wasn't ready for TPM&Secureboot weren't ready when WP7 was under development.
Plus NT kernel on ARM was not ready for prime time.

M_Lyons10 said,
What's with the title? That's hardly the intent of the statement OR the article you ripped this from...

It's hardly ripped. Anthony has rightly attributed the article. See "Source" at the end.

M_Lyons10 said,
What's with the title? That's hardly the intent of the statement OR the article you ripped this from...

How did I rip anything off? I gave CNET UK credit in both the story and at the end in the source link. He admitted numerous times in CNET UK's article that they knew Windows Phone 7 was going to be abandoned, so I'm not sure what you think his "intent" was.

Anthony Tosie said,

How did I rip anything off? I gave CNET UK credit in both the story and at the end in the source link. He admitted numerous times in CNET UK's article that they knew Windows Phone 7 was going to be abandoned, so I'm not sure what you think his "intent" was.

It's not ripped off from a legal point of view. But there is zero added value compared to the original article. More like paraphrasing.

Aethec said,

It's not ripped off from a legal point of view. But there is zero added value compared to the original article. More like paraphrasing.

So you reckon that this story should have stayed on Cnet and nowhere else? lol Go tell that to the other hundred or so sites that reported the same thing (and sometimes don't even credit the source).

M_Lyons10 said,
[. . .] OR the article you ripped this from...

"Ripped?" I mean the following in the most polite way, and with all due respect: Do you understand how journalism works? If not, I can inform you.

M_Lyons10 said,
What's with the title? That's hardly the intent of the statement OR the article you ripped this from...

Naaaa... You're just butt hurt that your favourite company stabbed you in the back. Waaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Then how about you guys start quoting them as newspapers that repost have done for ages. How about also 'not' changing the title of the original.

Instead, its far too hard to tell what is copy and what is paraphrased around here, its quite childish.

Dashel said,
Then how about you guys start quoting them as newspapers that repost have done for ages. How about also 'not' changing the title of the original.

Instead, its far too hard to tell what is copy and what is paraphrased around here, its quite childish.


I work at a newspaper for my full-time job. That's not how it works unless you're referring to wire services such as AP and Reuters, which is a vastly different topic than what we're discussing now. There's nothing "childish" about citing the key information from another article while giving them the full and proper credit for their work.

Neobond said,
So you reckon that this story should have stayed on Cnet and nowhere else? lol Go tell that to the other hundred or so sites that reported the same thing (and sometimes don't even credit the source).

I like Neowin. So it's rather sad to see your only excuse is "others do it too".
Neowin shouldn't be a news aggregator, but a website with original content. If you're going to quote some news, quote it entirely, and then analyze it.

Aethec said,

I like Neowin. So it's rather sad to see your only excuse is "others do it too".
Neowin shouldn't be a news aggregator, but a website with original content. If you're going to quote some news, quote it entirely, and then analyze it.

We feature both original content and information from articles that originated elsewhere. If we didn't do that, hardly anyone would want to visit us, because they wouldn't be getting all their news. As far as quoting something entirely: no. We will never republish another site's article or full quotes because that's not appropriate and never will be, since they worked hard to come up with that information; we'll give our members the information we think is the most important and direct them to the original article.

We routinely reach out to Microsoft and other companies for comments on articles and news such as this, but generally they won't comment on what's already been stated (or they'll provide a canned response). It's impossible to create entirely new articles when companies are unwilling to go beyond what's already been stated in other outlets. We try our best, but sometimes it's simply not feasible, and if we wait the news cycle will have passed us by.

Also, there's a difference between news articles and editorials. We routinely post our analysis of news in our editorials; with news articles we're simply providing the information. This is how the majority of news outlets operate. I'm not sure where else you're getting your technology news from, but I can't think of many websites that operate in a manner different than this.

Aethec said,

I like Neowin. So it's rather sad to see your only excuse is "others do it too".
Neowin shouldn't be a news aggregator, but a website with original content. If you're going to quote some news, quote it entirely, and then analyze it.

That comment doesn't seem to make sense to me. Pretty much all news websites pick up stories from other news websites and source the original. It's how journalism works. Someone breaks the story, others report on it.