Microsoft launches "Do the math" campaign aimed at Apple

Microsoft has launched a new Canadian-based online advertising campaign aimed at trying to convince consumers that they should once again choose a Windows PC over a Mac.

According to The Inquirer, the campaign is entitled “Do the math” and offers up a varying range of personal computers from Apple while showing alternative Windows PC machines from various vendors.

The list of comparison machines is long, with MacBook 13”, MacBook Air 11”, MacBook Air 13”, MacBook Pro 13”, MacBook Pro 15”, MacBook Pro 17” and both the iMac 21.5” and 27” put up against varying machines from Sony, HP amongst others.

The list points out pricing right at the top, in an attempt to show how much more expensive an Apple Mac is when compared to an equivalent Windows PC, it then lists screen size, hard drive capacity, RAM, processor, optical drive and then online storage as other important features to compare.

The main title of the Microsoft “Do the math” site suggests to users that they can either “Surf the web or surf Hawaii”, in other words, Microsoft is saying that the savings you can make on a Windows PC over a Mac will be enough to pay for you to go away on a fancy holiday.

The websites main promotion of a savings shows a MacBook Pro 17” retailing at $2,349 against an HP Pavilion DV7 retailing at $999, a saving of $1349. Though as the Inquirer points out, things don’t always go to plan, with an iMac 21.5” machine compared to a Sony Vaio J. The Sony model comes in more expensive and has a slower processor when compared to the iMac.

The “Do the math” site also offers a link to a Facebook page where users can win a Windows based PC.

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this Do the math thing its a crap. I just compared the 15 inches MBP and it says its 1849 but it is 1500. 1. they dont put screen resolution (where apple wins) 2. ilife comes with all macs, and its way better than windows live 3. online storage 20 gb 99US$ a year vs 25 gb free? are you kiddin me? first, I can use skydrive with macs also so I have 25 gb for free with macs also, and then, you pay for the mobileMe service that is a complete in the cloud solution..4. security protection.. macs: dont needed if you are a regular user (i dont have any antivirus installed on my mac and when i run online on demand antiviruses there is no viruses in my computer) and anyway, there are free options out there... the antivirus that comes with free with windows its a crap and you have to buy another one to be protected .. and then no talk abbout thuntherbird, magsafe adapter, huge multitouch trackpad and comfortable keyboard, no fan sound, very customizable OS.....

Religious zealots are moderate compared to PC-MAC fundamentalists.

[personal preference and economics: i rest my case]

PS people who buy a MBA probably go to Hawaii twice a year anyhow,
people who buy a $300 pc netbook will never see the island in their lifetime

I think we're all missing the point here, this article credits the source as "The Inquirer". C'mon Neowin... I thought you posted news... not gossip and rumors...

My MacBook that I bought had ****ty plastics. After three months, it started cracking. Apple at first refused to repair it, saying it was my fault and not the common problem due to ****ty design (or materials). Finally, they tell me that it will take probably two months to get my laptop back, unless I drive 150 miles to my nearest apple store to get it fixed (Its hard to do when I'm in the military). Well I decided just to sell it and I bought an HP. Haven't had any problems (except with the WD hard drive that was junk).

Sorry, my MacBook Pro 13" kills any comparable PC in build quality and usability, nice try MS but going with "we are cheap" isn't helping you right now.

bob_c_b said,
Sorry, my MacBook Pro 13" kills any comparable PC in build quality and usability, nice try MS but going with "we are cheap" isn't helping you right now.

Yeah the comparison page for the MBP 13" is just silly. My father has the Samsung QX and while it's not a bad computer by any means, it has the usual crappy trackpad, battery life is not as good as my MBP, display quality is not as good etc.

Overall this is pretty close to distracting marketing. They carefully forget things like the fact that the Macbook Air has a 64 GB SSD in it or that it's slimmer and faster than any of the netbooks. The iMac 27" comparison is just laughable.

I find the never ending debate of Apple vs PC/Microsoft humorous. When will it end? Comparing the two products is like comparing iPhone to Droid, Gasoline Cars to Hybrids, American Express Credit Cars to Capital One MasterCard and so on. It is a debate that has NO WINNER! Apple has hand selected all their hardware from what Steve Jobs defines at best built for Apple's OSX. He dedicates all his development to make a perfect match of software with hardware, he keeps Apple's standards high…He then take all of Apples side products such as iPhone, iPod, iPad and so on and used the same software code which further integrates all Apple products together for a more refined and stable and pure solution, etc….Apple slaps on a somewhat overpriced tag to their products and there are clear limitation as to what you can do with Apple products, but this is by design for Apple. When you buy Apple products you are agreeing to do things Steve Jobs way and whether you like the guy or not he has a good vision which shows in his popularity over Bill Gates/Steve Balmer and the Microsoft stock price which has been in free fall the past 2 years verses Apple Stock which….well…look at it. This is further validated by the iPhone still 5-6 years later being the number 1 smartphone after all the would be competitors.

Now that I am done hailing Apple. Lets talk PC/Microsoft. Some would argue MS has lost their way and is spread too thin, trying to get their hands in everything. They are too dependent on the hardware sector because Windows ability and stability is dependent on being compatible with everything, which is very hard to do. I know some will say MS has certified drivers and MS large partnerships with everyone, but what good had it done MS. Just about every side product MS has created in the past 5-6 years has FAILED…They are currently struggling with their Windows Phone and iPhone and Droid are dominant. Then to add misery to pain the government sues MS and restricts their ability to integrate all MS products into Windows (which is what Apple is being allow to do???)

If the price point is the argument for this article then I would ask this question. If iPhone is more expensive and locked down than a Droid, but the handoff for going with Droid is for cheaper and more freedom to do what you want, BUT has more hardware and software problems (faulty LCD screens, force close messages, waiting for video chat apps to be made for your specific Droid phone, waiting to have the latest Gingerbread 2.3 version just to find out your Droid is 11 months old and wont get it, etc)…Then why should you pay more for something that does less than the other, but for what it does it does better than anyone? Is Apple to reduce their standards and be more like MS and PC and cheaper so you can afford to go to Hawaii? Think not….If you by Honda Accord or Toyota Camry because its works, does that somehow make Prius and other Electric Hybrids too expensive? The Electrics and Hybrids don't do as much as your Accord or Camry and they are very expensive to own, but in the long run they wont give you any crap, save you time which can equal money saved. They have less moving parts which means lass that can break, less problems (except the gas pedal)

American Express had high standards; they refused to be like all the other credit lenders. They offered high credit limits, reasonable interest rates, first class customer service and they were immune to recessions which allowed them to continue their service without change. They did not offer rewards points, they didn't have 100 fancy actors in commercials, they didn't offer 100 different credit cards….But somewhere along the years AMEX got jealous of the other credit companies because millions of people where getting credit cards and willing to pay 18-24 percent interest rates, so AMEX reduced their standards and became like everyone else. They took on less credit worthy borrowers, wore themselves thin with rewards programs and other perks to offer, etc….But when it came down to the financial collapse they choked like all the others.

Would that have happened if they kept their principles and stayed true to themselves despite being compared?

Would Apple be where they are if they got jealous of Windows sales, other hardware sales, etc….Should they become like everyone else?

Yes, they charge more, and electric cars are more expensive and getting an AMEX card is more difficult than Capital One…..But What you get is better, more refined, focused on the person who wants it and not what others have to say who have no intention or ability to get it. That $2,400 price you pay for MacBook Pro gives me a guarantee that when I bitch to Apple and tell them I want stability, coolness, performance and no BS from my computer…I get it….Because if I don't, I will go by a ThinkPad for $1200 that has fancy lights, the same CPU and RAM, made of plastic running Windows (need I say more) and find 2 times per year to spend 2 hours on the phone with IBM/LENOVO support because my laptop broke, just so they can try and convince me it's a problem with Windows and I need to call MS or the company who made my software.

I'm pretty disappointed with Microsoft. They should at least have compared the same specs products and they would still have a dominant hand. The only one I agree with them is the MacBook 13", though...

I'm on the verge of getting my first Apple laptop, and I gotta save a lot to get it ($2000 for a 13" macbook pro with 8gb RAM, 500gb HDD and AppleCare. And I think the difference is the ability to get AppleCare and not to worry about your computer hardware problems (so far, I heard awesome stories from people).

Then again, I spent about $850 on my desktop, $950 on my gaming laptop, and about $300 for my netbook. With that money, I could have bought an entry level 15" Macbook Pro. with AppleCare.

Yup. They shouldn't even compare it. They are just stating that macs are much better than PC in that point... Plus, doesn't iMacs with 27" come with a 2560 x 1440 res?

srprimeaux said,
I need a better reason for using Windows than "We're cheap!"

Just saying.

I need a better reason to use Apple than "We're cool!"

Just saying.

WickedScribbler said,

I need a better reason to use Apple than "We're cool!"

Just saying.


If you join the cult now, you'll get 72 virgins when you die....or something.

As a student I got the following for free,

Windows XP x86_64 Professional
Windows XP x86_32 Professional
Windows 7 x86_32 Professional
Windows 7 x86_64 Professional
Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Ultimate
..

Nothing from Apple though.

I love how MS compares normal HD with SSD. Compares old AMD processor with core i5 and i7.

A comparison between a MBA and some atom notebooks is ridiculous at best imo.

I don't own any Apple product save for an Ipod Touch (partially bought with a gift card). I build my computer myself and own a full legal retail boxed version of Windows 7 coming with support from MS (and not the OEM vendor). I would never buy any desktop computer made by HP and others.

XP before SP2 and SP3 was absolute crap. My original plan when I brought a HP desktop 5 years ago, was to reformat back to Win98. I ran Knoppix Live, I had no luck to install Linux until Ubuntu 9.

6 months ago, the HP died after five whole years of random and unexplainable shutdowns. I am scared of getting Dell, custom building all future desktops.

Macs do cost more than PCs, a barrier high enough to prevent me from getting another Mac. When it comes to a Windows based PC, if you are stupid, you will need to buy antivirus and MS Office. Ultimately if you did that, PCs and Mac is about the same price. But you have to put up with the bull**** of Windows and BSOD.

I have been a Windows user for about 19 years now. 5 years ago, I bought my first mac, and will not go back. I do still use Windows at work though, as I have no choice.

The argument about price obviously holds some water, but the whole experience really is much better with a Mac, and high quality build laptops/All-in-ones are not that much less (and in many cases cost more) than the Macbooks/iMacs.
The argument is actually more like the Windows Mobile adverts, do you want to spend your time sorting out your computer, or do you want to get on and do what you want to do?

There is a lot good about Windows7, but at its core, it still tries to maintain compatibility with all the older 8 & 16 bit apps, and is really bloated.
When I have set up Windows PCs, you have to wait for all the OS to install, register, copy the install image to the hard drive, etc. Even on first use, usually. Plug in an iMac, and you will be surfing in minutes. You wont need to install AV/Anti_spamware, etc.
You wont need to spend your time defragging, and performing all those other optimisations that Windows Power users need to do. A mac Power User, spends their time using their Mac, not keeping it free of malicious/poorly performing software.

Also, what about the Microsoft Tax? Buy a Pro Version of office for 320GBP (Yes you can get the home edition cheaper approx 80GBP but you can get keynote, pages and numbers from the app store at 30GBP), upgrade your OS (If you can decide which version) for 200GBP (I know OEM is cheaper, but isnt really legal in most cases.). Want good parental controls, then buy software which slows your PC down.

I'm typing this on a 5 year old iMac, and am only just feeling like maybe I should replace it. That feeling usually comes about 6-12 months after getting a Windows PC. The iMac is on almost constantly, and it has crashed twice (yes macs do crash sometimes, but far, far, less often).
It's more than the specs, its how you want to use your time, its how you feel when your PC boots, and takes minutes rather than seconds before you can use it. Its having a machine that has made you feel like doing more with your photos/videos/music/Websites rather than frustration at how the apps dont integrate properly. All without extra expense.

amithras said,

There is a lot good about Windows7, but at its core, it still tries to maintain compatibility with all the older 8 & 16 bit apps, and is really bloated.

Let me stop you right there, because you won't have much fun trying to run 8 and 16bit programs on W7 64. And seeing as the rest of your post is equally misinformed (bloated, defragging, performing optimizations? even blatant trolls don't touch these trite "arguments" anymore) I suspect you didn't really use Windows for 19 years and just added it to make you look more objective. Didn't work.

amithras said,
I have been a Windows user for about 19 years now. 5 years ago, I bought my first mac, and will not go back. I do still use Windows at work though, as I have no choice.

The argument about price obviously holds some water, but the whole experience really is much better with a Mac, and high quality build laptops/All-in-ones are not that much less (and in many cases cost more) than the Macbooks/iMacs.
The argument is actually more like the Windows Mobile adverts, do you want to spend your time sorting out your computer, or do you want to get on and do what you want to do?

There is a lot good about Windows7, but at its core, it still tries to maintain compatibility with all the older 8 & 16 bit apps, and is really bloated.
When I have set up Windows PCs, you have to wait for all the OS to install, register, copy the install image to the hard drive, etc. Even on first use, usually. Plug in an iMac, and you will be surfing in minutes. You wont need to install AV/Anti_spamware, etc.
You wont need to spend your time defragging, and performing all those other optimisations that Windows Power users need to do. A mac Power User, spends their time using their Mac, not keeping it free of malicious/poorly performing software.

Also, what about the Microsoft Tax? Buy a Pro Version of office for 320GBP (Yes you can get the home edition cheaper approx 80GBP but you can get keynote, pages and numbers from the app store at 30GBP), upgrade your OS (If you can decide which version) for 200GBP (I know OEM is cheaper, but isnt really legal in most cases.). Want good parental controls, then buy software which slows your PC down.

I'm typing this on a 5 year old iMac, and am only just feeling like maybe I should replace it. That feeling usually comes about 6-12 months after getting a Windows PC. The iMac is on almost constantly, and it has crashed twice (yes macs do crash sometimes, but far, far, less often).
It's more than the specs, its how you want to use your time, its how you feel when your PC boots, and takes minutes rather than seconds before you can use it. Its having a machine that has made you feel like doing more with your photos/videos/music/Websites rather than frustration at how the apps dont integrate properly. All without extra expense.

+1 finally someone who can make a good argument and simply isn't just trolling. I am exactly the same, used Windows for about 10 years now, brought a Macbook Pro 3 months ago and I wouldn't turn back again.

danielsmith89 said,
+1 finally someone who can make a good argument and simply isn't just trolling. I am exactly the same, used Windows for about 10 years now, brought a Macbook Pro 3 months ago and I wouldn't turn back again.

Except most of it isn't a good argument. The whole "8 and 16 bit" nonsense was touched above. Don't want to buy Office? Then fine, don't. Get Libre or whatever freebie instead. Buy parental controls? Win 7 has it built in, nothing to buy. Photos/video/etc with "poor integration? Are you kidding? Use the built in, or replace with stronger freebies, Microsoft or otherwise. (Lots of choices with Windows.) If you like a OSX, that's fine and all, more power to you, but at least be serious about the anti-Windows argument.

amithras said,
When I have set up Windows PCs, you have to wait for all the OS to install, register, copy the install image to the hard drive, etc. Even on first use, usually. Plug in an iMac, and you will be surfing in minutes. You wont need to install AV/Anti_spamware, etc.

So you just did a comparison on installing an Windows OS to turning on a iMac... You can buy a PC with Windows 7 already installed and you can be "surfing in minutes". I know you should know this because you said you were a Windows user for 19 years, hell even knowing computers for that long you should know you can buy a PC with Windows already installed.

Doli said,

So you just did a comparison on installing an Windows OS to turning on a iMac... You can buy a PC with Windows 7 already installed and you can be "surfing in minutes". I know you should know this because you said you were a Windows user for 19 years, hell even knowing computers for that long you should know you can buy a PC with Windows already installed.

No, you won't be "surfing in minutes". Have you bought a computer recently? First, there's the basic setup. Then, there's the OEM post setup that you have to wait through. Then on first start, there's a ton of BS loaded up on startup, such as the Norton trial, OEM visual mods, and you have to wait for that to finish. Then, you open up Internet Explorer, only to be given that stupid "first time use" dialog (which most of us have trained ourselves to automatically click "Ask me later" so that we can go get the setup file for the web browser we actually want).

Say what you will about Apple, they do a DAMN sight better of a job getting a user from off to going in almost no time.

so let's do the math
starting with a brand new laptop (PC/Mac)
how long does it take until you have a fully configured system without bloatware that could mount images, burn dvd's, read/create/modify pdf's, does backups, sorts pictures, plays music, has a working mail / browser combo and a running apache webserver?

Can't say for OSX, but for Windows? If it's a store bought system, ohh about 10 minutes. Most of that's already built in, the rest is gettable with free software.

Rather misleading, but I guess thats the point. They could at least specify the difference between an HDD and an SSD, or the difference in RAM speeds. Ah well

Xero said,
Rather misleading, but I guess thats the point. They could at least specify the difference between an HDD and an SSD, or the difference in RAM speeds. Ah well

Instead they just highlighted the spec's they wanted to highlight and even then they fail because they are comparing Atom processor machines to a Core 2 Duo machine....

But anyone who has spec'd out an SSD knows that it costs a LOT more than an HDD and that makes up a lot of the cost between the MBA and these netbooks. Nevermind the fact that the build quality is much better imo.

Shadrack said,

Instead they just highlighted the spec's they wanted to highlight and even then they fail because they are comparing Atom processor machines to a Core 2 Duo machine....

But anyone who has spec'd out an SSD knows that it costs a LOT more than an HDD and that makes up a lot of the cost between the MBA and these netbooks. Nevermind the fact that the build quality is much better imo.

a netbook is good enough for most people
Note that netbooks are much cheaper but can do pretty much everything.

Don't forget how horrible MAC OS is.

A case and point Adobe Flash. Flash offers the hardware accelerated video playback on Windows, hardware acceleration FOR SOME GPUS on MAC, and Null for Linux users (Linux has no support for hardware acceleration)

virtorio said,
You described how "horrible" the Flash plug-in is, nothing to do with OS X.
Got any more?

Nice Try.

Adobe Flash *cannot* support hardware accelerated video on certain MACs because of the OS = *censored*

Udedenkz said,
Don't forget how horrible MAC OS is.

A case and point Adobe Flash. Flash offers the hardware accelerated video playback on Windows, hardware acceleration FOR SOME GPUS on MAC, and Null for Linux users (Linux has no support for hardware acceleration)

How can it be horrible, MAC addresses aren't an operating system, DUH!

denisvj said,
I am a PC

Of course I use Ubuntu on my thinkpad , I don´t kiss Microsoft's ass !!!!

Are you troubled by something? I'm not kissing anybodies ass while I use Windows. I swear.

denisvj said,
I am a PC

Of course I use Ubuntu on my thinkpad , I don´t kiss Microsoft's ass !!!!


Can you not reply to such threads until your magical Ubuntu can play high birtrate 1080p h264 with the CPU idling at 0-6%?
Thanks.

I love the "Online Storage" as the $99/year for MobileMe (and therefore iDisk) is available to Windows users just as SkyDrive works just fine on Mac.

Macs do cost more than PCs. For some people it is worth the little bit of extra cash. Whats funny is how tech nerds will spend hours debating the differences in hardware specs and why they think that extra $200 for the Mac isn't worth it. I seriously doubt they take the same approach to buying a car or even spend half as much time discussing it.

Shadrack said,
I love the "Online Storage" as the $99/year for MobileMe (and therefore iDisk) is available to Windows users just as SkyDrive works just fine on Mac.

Macs do cost more than PCs. For some people it is worth the little bit of extra cash. Whats funny is how tech nerds will spend hours debating the differences in hardware specs and why they think that extra $200 for the Mac isn't worth it. I seriously doubt they take the same approach to buying a car or even spend half as much time discussing it.

Little bit extra...uh...

Shadrack said,
I love the "Online Storage" as the $99/year for MobileMe (and therefore iDisk) is available to Windows users just as SkyDrive works just fine on Mac.

Macs do cost more than PCs. For some people it is worth the little bit of extra cash. Whats funny is how tech nerds will spend hours debating the differences in hardware specs and why they think that extra $200 for the Mac isn't worth it. I seriously doubt they take the same approach to buying a car or even spend half as much time discussing it.


litle extra? are you serious? its lmost double the price if not more.

Soldiers33 said,

litle extra? are you serious? its lmost double the price if not more.

It is only double If you buy into this propaganda MS is pushing. When you consider similarly spec'd laptops the Apple Tax is about $200.

Shadrack said,

It is only double If you buy into this propaganda MS is pushing. When you consider similarly spec'd laptops the Apple Tax is about $200.

Agreed, if you look into the specs properly, and to be honest, working in a laptop repair company, I would never, ever buy HP, they have more problems than any other brand.

Damn, I failed math!! If only I had passed I would have known better to buy a windows PC!! Sigh! Oh well, I suppose I am just going to have to contend with not having viruses and BSOD's, along with no freezing, always having supported drivers and never having my OS crashing. Sigh, its such a bummer!! If only I had passed math, I would have known better than to buy a Windows PC!

Kyle Lindeque said,
Damn, I failed math!! If only I had passed I would have known better to buy a windows PC!! Sigh! Oh well, I suppose I am just going to have to contend with not having viruses and BSOD's, along with no freezing, always having supported drivers and never having my OS crashing. Sigh, its such a bummer!! If only I had passed math, I would have known better than to buy a Windows PC!

Hope those old outdated arguments are still working for you Apple guys. They must have cancelled those commercials for a reason eh?

Kyle Lindeque said,
Damn, I failed math!! If only I had passed I would have known better to buy a windows PC!! Sigh! Oh well, I suppose I am just going to have to contend with not having viruses and BSOD's, along with no freezing, always having supported drivers and never having my OS crashing. Sigh, its such a bummer!! If only I had passed math, I would have known better than to buy a Windows PC!

Note sentence below this may be offensive.
This is the reason why I think that many Mac users are complete dolts.

Note the sentence below this may be very offensive,
I think this is what people like you think - "Omg I dum dum and dun kno ntn bout Winlows 7 - like from 2oo7? Old! No viruz thanx, MACS FTW"

EDIT:
Honestly. I run WITHOUT VIRUS PROTECTION, FIREWALL, AND UAC. No viruses, no nothing for YEARS. If you cannot manage to do this - I have no idea what you do with your computer....

I have been running the cheapest boxes and laptops I can find with the best specs i can find for my entire computing career which is extremely extensive. I have never been out of the game because of build quality. I do however remember being teased unmercifully for wearing "Keds" sneakers as a kid, instead of the "Puma's" that all my rich friends parents bought them.

I can still run and I can still walk, and I am typing this from my $600 Toshiba in a coffee shop in Honlulu, Hawaii. I'll be home next week, I've been here since January, how did I afford it?

jimmyfal said,
I can still run and I can still walk, and I am typing this from my $600 Toshiba in a coffee shop in Honlulu, Hawaii. I'll be home next week, I've been here since January, how did I afford it?
How'd you save enough money to take a 5 month vacation? Probably not by saving $30/year on shoes and $200/year for a cheaper computer. And it's probably not saving money that stops most people from moving to Hawaii for 5 months; it's having a job, school, family, or established living conditions.

I just bought a MBP 13 inch. Now I haven't gotten it yet, but personally I prefer OS X on a laptop, and windows 7 on a desktop. I am not really familiar with the quality of sony's products (not any other laptop maker), but I have tried my friends MBP several times and it is truly a great device. The only reason I bought it was because I got a good price, when you live in Denmark you do not wanna go and spend 50% more than in the US, which makes for a pretty ridiculous price. Love my windows desktop PC though

Danelander said,
I just bought a MBP 13 inch. Now I haven't gotten it yet, but personally I prefer OS X on a laptop, and windows 7 on a desktop. I am not really familiar with the quality of sony's products (not any other laptop maker), but I have tried my friends MBP several times and it is truly a great device. The only reason I bought it was because I got a good price, when you live in Denmark you do not wanna go and spend 50% more than in the US, which makes for a pretty ridiculous price. Love my windows desktop PC though

Well, my wife has a Sony Vaio SR and it is really good. It is well built and the monitor is excellent. The only thing I dislike in it is the keyboard (after years using a Thinkpad, nothing comes close to it), but it is very similar to the Macbook one.

What a biased comparison, Microsoft.

I've hesitated a lot before buying my iMac 27" in October 2009. After a lot of calculations, the iMacs 27" are on par with the competition really when it comes to the price. Microsoft doesn't even compare it with 27" screens to begin with, and they're comparing it with awful monitors. Sorry, but I don't need to see more of this.

Also, I'll put it simple, it's the best computer I've ever owned in my entire life and by far. I've never had a single problem with it and would never change it for a PC, unless you give me enough money to buy another Mac with it

PyX said,
What a biased comparison, Microsoft.

I've hesitated a lot before buying my iMac 27" in October 2009. After a lot of calculations, the iMacs 27" are on par with the competition really when it comes to the price. Microsoft doesn't even compare it with 27" screens to begin with, and they're comparing it with awful monitors. Sorry, but I don't need to see more of this.

Also, I'll put it simple, it's the best computer I've ever owned in my entire life and by far. I've never had a single problem with it and would never change it for a PC, unless you give me enough money to buy another Mac with it

Best part is when a new OS comes out, you pay $30 for the OS which can install on multiple machines without problems. Or every machine, as theres nothing limiting you. Its cheaper to buy new laptops every time MS releases another OS. Either that or spend $250 on the OS and another $250 on hardware to make it work as it should.

Ruciz said,

Best part is when a new OS comes out, you pay $30 for the OS which can install on multiple machines without problems. Or every machine, as theres nothing limiting you. Its cheaper to buy new laptops every time MS releases another OS. Either that or spend $250 on the OS and another $250 on hardware to make it work as it should.

You never had any problem with Windows OEM i guess. For one MS doesn't support OEM. To get support you have to deal with the manufacturer of the computer.

A lot of time computer (HP) coming with the OEM version of windows doesn't include the installation CD. To repair Windows you need to use a recovery partition. It the recovery partition fails to recover Windows then HP will ask you the send to whole computer for repair. Ms will just tell you to call HP.

It's more expensive the buy the full boxed version of Windows. But after dealing with HP once i think it worth all the money to buy a boxed version of Windows in store.

PyX said,
What a biased comparison, Microsoft.

Of course it's biased. IT'S A ****ING AD FOR MICROSOFT!!!!!!!!!!
That's the nature of advertising!!! It's ALL BIASED.

PyX said,
What a biased comparison, Microsoft.

I've hesitated a lot before buying my iMac 27" in October 2009. After a lot of calculations, the iMacs 27" are on par with the competition really when it comes to the price. Microsoft doesn't even compare it with 27" screens to begin with, and they're comparing it with awful monitors. Sorry, but I don't need to see more of this.

Also, I'll put it simple, it's the best computer I've ever owned in my entire life and by far. I've never had a single problem with it and would never change it for a PC, unless you give me enough money to buy another Mac with it

Did you complain with all those biased advertisements from Apple? You know, the ones where they were saying things like all Microsoft does is spend on advertising, but what is the Apple commercials to Microsoft commercials ratio? Or how about the commercials Apple saying Microsoft needs to use small print, but in an Apple commercial, there is nothing but small print describing the specific conditions you need to use Apple software/hardware to get the same effect in the commercial. Or all the commercials Appple made about viruses/trojans/malware, but never talk about how people lose data every day on Apple computers (and it does happen more than you think). Or Apple commercials about hardware made obsolete by Microsoft OSes, but hardware is made obsolete with every Apple phone or desktop OS. Or the Apple commercials about how Windows locks up, but ever since I upgraded my Mac Mini to Snow Leopard, I can't open Safari without a 5 minute spinning pinwheel (but look at the pretty colors). Or the commercials about how Microsoft does not play well with other devices, but then how they don't play well with DLNA, Blu-Ray, or many, many non-Apple devices is never talked about.

And on, and on, and on, and...

ahhell said,
That's the nature of advertising!!! It's ALL BIASED.

True, true.
The day advertising will become a science, we might finally be able to choose objectively. But it'll never happen. Advertising works because they play with our emotions, instincts, etc.

@nohone : There's a lot of points in your post that I could counter easily, but I don't really want to go in all of this. Mainly, you're right about the Mac vs PC ads. They were surely funny to watch, but not honorific for Apple as a competitor with Microsoft.

Ruciz said,

Best part is when a new OS comes out, you pay $30 for the OS which can install on multiple machines without problems. Or every machine, as theres nothing limiting you.

The last part sounds like piracy to me. And it's not always only $30, Apple wants money from you much more often and certain limitations apply (I'm not even talking about buying an Apple PC/Notebook or the change to Intel). You can get Windows very cheap too, $250, yeah right. Dishonest much? I'm sure overall I payed less for my Windows versions in the last 15 years then you for OSX.

An Apple is a professional design computer. It isn't and never has been intended to be cheap.

You're paying for ease of use and top-notch OS and software quality (yeah that's a bit of personal opinion, I know). In the end, it's made for design and productivity, not customizability and gaming ,which is the primary focus of most high end PC rigs.

Astra.Xtreme said,
An Apple is a professional design computer. It isn't and never has been intended to be cheap.

You're paying for ease of use and top-notch OS and software quality (yeah that's a bit of personal opinion, I know). In the end, it's made for design and productivity, not customizability and gaming ,which is the primary focus of most high end PC rigs.

+1

Astra.Xtreme said,
An Apple is a professional design computer. It isn't and never has been intended to be cheap.

You're paying for ease of use and top-notch OS and software quality (yeah that's a bit of personal opinion, I know). In the end, it's made for design and productivity, not customizability and gaming ,which is the primary focus of most high end PC rigs.

exactly, OSX/Macs are production machines. Netbook and windows computers were made for entertainment purposes. With the advance of console and handheld gaming, and the iPhone/iPad - the Mac world is quickly catching up in this tho.

Astra.Xtreme said,
An Apple is a professional design computer. It isn't and never has been intended to be cheap.

You're paying for ease of use and top-notch OS and software quality (yeah that's a bit of personal opinion, I know). In the end, it's made for design and productivity, not customizability and gaming ,which is the primary focus of most high end PC rigs.

Professional designing what? every software for mac is available for windows, and im a designer and i use windows and all designers "i know" use windows. so whats your point?

Astra.Xtreme said,
An Apple is a professional design computer. It isn't and never has been intended to be cheap.

You're paying for ease of use and top-notch OS and software quality (yeah that's a bit of personal opinion, I know). In the end, it's made for design and productivity, not customizability and gaming ,which is the primary focus of most high end PC rigs.

Wow... biased much?

But youre right... Apple never "intends" their products to be cheap...

simrat said,

Professional designing what? every software for mac is available for windows, and im a designer and i use windows and all designers "i know" use windows. so whats your point?


Not only software, but hardware. Adobe Premiere CS4+ laughed at MacBooks capabilities...

Of course, now is another story...

simrat said,

Professional designing what? every software for mac is available for windows, and im a designer and i use windows and all designers "i know" use windows. so whats your point?

Nobody ever mentioned that PC's can't do the same tasks that an Apple can...
So i don't know where you come off saying that. With the exception of Boot Camp, they can natively do the exact same thing and run the exact same software (for the most part). But again, that was completely away from the point I was making...

Ruciz said,

Netbook and windows computers were made for entertainment purposes.


really? are you sure about that? Think windows computers can be used for more than just "entertainment"...

ixne_hombre said,

really? are you sure about that? Think windows computers can be used for more than just "entertainment"...

Then you're clearly wrong, corporations all over the world have been buying Windows PCs for the last 25 years only so their employees can play Minsweeper during lunch breaks.

Astra.Xtreme said,
that was completely away from the point I was making...
He was asking you what your point was, stupid.

Beaux said,
He was asking you what your point was, stupid.

And I answered it... Grow up...
Name calling only makes you look more like an uneducated 5 year old.

if you use the car analogy then would you have the car you last bought or bought one for 1/3 less and had a holiday ? If you don't need all the bells and whistles then go with the cheaper option.

craybox said,
if you use the car analogy then would you have the car you last bought or bought one for 1/3 less and had a holiday ? If you don't need all the bells and whistles then go with the cheaper option.
Your just defeated your own argument because these 1/3-price laptops have more features. Extra RAM and a faster CPU make a big difference, and that's even before you get into the totally exclusive features like Blu-ray (and touch input if you care about that).

If I buy a fancy car its performance may well be equivalent to cheaper ones but I'm at least getting exclusive features the cheaper cars don't have--not the other way around.

Arkose said,
If I buy a fancy car its performance may well be equivalent to cheaper ones but I'm at least getting exclusive features the cheaper cars don't have--not the other way around.

I used to think that Macbook Pros were overpriced. And they are in some ways. But here's the deal: you are not paying for better specs. You pay for the little (big) things - like the gorgeous hi-res LED display, the thin frame, the unbelievable quietness with which they run, the superb battery life, the massive multitouch touchpad, adaptive display brightness, the unibody construction, the battery life indicator on the frame, the amazing microphone quality, etc. [I've opened up 3 laptops including an MBP, and the engineering quality of the MBP just blew me away - such low tolerances for one.] And most of all, the unmatched customer service experience. There was a fault with my 2011 MBPs RAM and they replaced the whole machine at my request - the customer service agents did not treat me like a child: once they recognized that I knew what I was talking about, they skimmed over the essentials and they sounded like they actually wanted to help me.

I had to sue HP to get my money back in a much worser situation that dragged out over 2 years. If you can afford it, Macs are a much better option. This is from someone who's had 5 laptops before my very first MBP this year. (I mostly use Windows on it, I use OS X only when I need the battery life). And I'm no Apple fanboy - I'm a Microsoft Student Partner and develop for Windows and the Windows Phone 7 commercially.

Sure money is important, but my time and peace of mind are far more important - I can make far more money in the time it takes me to deal with poor customer service.

Arkose said,
Your just defeated your own argument because these 1/3-price laptops have more features. Extra RAM and a faster CPU make a big difference, and that's even before you get into the totally exclusive features like Blu-ray (and touch input if you care about that).

If I buy a fancy car its performance may well be equivalent to cheaper ones but I'm at least getting exclusive features the cheaper cars don't have--not the other way around.

is not about the features, is about the high quality, you can buy a toyota with leather seats, with an ipod connection, with a good stereo sound, with a efficient engine, but with crappy tires, crappy design, crappy suspension, etc.. but then buy a bmw and you have it all (you can buy a 8 cylinder toyota a half of the price of a 1.8 bmw), its becouse the quality.. obviously if you dont have a mac you dont know what are you talking about

just think about it, i was a win boy since i got mi first MBP 2009 and with all the problems i got with this machine i still love it way more than the previous win machines (the last one could run crysis and had windows 7)... i still love win7, and for the price its a better option, but for a laptop i would prefer a solid aluminium, with no fan sound, with a huge battery life, with the best keyboard and trackpad i have ever used, the magsafe adapter, the small wall charger, and all the great out of the box apps it came with

somebody really should give microsoft a biscuit.

hasn't everybody known this for YEARS? you've only got to walk into your local PC World to realise that even the cheapest Apple laptop is more expensive than many of the Windows laptops they sell.

People don't buy Apple laptops because they want the most cutting edge tech to play the latest games... Microsoft have missed the point me thinks.

Mr Winkle said,
somebody really should give microsoft a biscuit.

hasn't everybody known this for YEARS? you've only got to walk into your local PC World to realise that even the cheapest Apple laptop is more expensive than many of the Windows laptops they sell.

People don't buy Apple laptops because they want the most cutting edge tech to play the latest games... Microsoft have missed the point me thinks.

When has MS ever hit the point?

Mr Winkle said,
somebody really should give microsoft a biscuit.

hasn't everybody known this for YEARS? you've only got to walk into your local PC World to realise that even the cheapest Apple laptop is more expensive than many of the Windows laptops they sell.
You guys don't get it. Microsoft makes software, OEM(Dell, Acer, Samsung,Hp,etc) produce the hardware. Apple made hardware and os. MS should implement minimum requirement Haredware specification, but that will be another story.
Anyway, if Dell,HP,Acer, Toshiba, Samsung want to make bad ass laptops/desktop...they could easily compete with Apple.
People don't buy Apple laptops because they want the most cutting edge tech to play the latest games... Microsoft have missed the point me thinks.


The comparison with the MBA and the others in the image above is not really fair. The MBA has a better processor and is not a netbook.

Tech Star said,
The comparison with the MBA and the others in the image above is not really fair. The MBA has a better processor and is not a netbook.

I noticed that straight away. Those two Atom laptops shouldn't really be there unless the user just wants a netbook.
That HP DM1, however, blows that Macbook Air out of the water. You can actually play games and watch 1080p videos on that HP DM1. The 640GB hard drive is worth about the same as the 64GB SSD and the 4GB RAM is a vast improvement. And the price? A third of the Air.
The HP DM1 loses out in weight (by a pound) and thinness.

The CPU and hard drive (solid state in this case) will always be misleading to those who don't understand the difference. Microsoft is likely hoping you see '64GB' and think it's 1/10th of the 640GB. Likewise hoping you think the CPUs are comparable.

Edited by Sacha, May 5 2011, 7:02pm :

Sacha said,

I noticed that straight away. Those two Atom laptops shouldn't really be there unless the user just wants a netbook.
That HP DM1, however, blows that Macbook Air out of the water. You can actually play games and watch 1080p videos on that HP DM1. The 640GB hard drive is worth about the same as the 64GB SSD and the 4GB RAM is a vast improvement. And the price? A third of the Air.
The HP DM1 loses out in weight (by a pound) and thinness.

The CPU and hard drive (solid state in this case) will always be misleading to those who don't understand the difference. Microsoft is likely hoping you see '64GB' and think it's 1/10th of the 640GB. Likewise hoping you think the CPUs are comparable.

Honestly, I'd rather have a computer I don't have to worry about splitting in half by putting small amounts of pressure on it.

Examinus said,
MacBook Pro looking pretty sexy.

Id rather go to Hawaii and oggle at the hotties there than be the coolest nerd on the block with a macbook .

eviltwigflipper said,

Id rather go to Hawaii and oggle at the hotties there than be the coolest nerd on the block with a macbook .

oggle/perv, whatever... I'm with u bro

Exactly what I've been trying to tell people, you can always buy something with way better hardware thats running Windows. Technically OS X is a $700 operating system .

eviltwigflipper said,
Exactly what I've been trying to tell people, you can always buy something with way better hardware thats running Windows. Technically OS X is a $700 operating system .

Amen. The "Apple tax" is indeed very real and simply not worth it imho. Mac buyers are just like the hippies who shop Whole Foods: for some reason paying MORE for things makes them feel good???

Nogib said,

Amen. The "Apple tax" is indeed very real and simply not worth it imho. Mac buyers are just like the hippies who shop Whole Foods: for some reason paying MORE for things makes them feel good???

Man, after the wholefoods comment, you made me think of this video... You aint artsier than me because you shop at wholefoods in open toed shoes.... Here is the awesome vid and song to it...
[media] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCHV2I_Xog0 [/media] Aww, doesn't work on this section of neowin watch it anyway!

Specs Vs Well Built

Sorry, I've bought all brands/models for either myself or clients. There hasn't been a laptop that's come even close to the quality of my MBP.

To each his own

Tech Greek said,
Specs Vs Well Built

Sorry, I've bought all brands/models for either myself or clients. There hasn't been a laptop that's come even close to the quality of my MBP.

To each his own

Lenovo has top-class builds. So does Sony (especially their screens). This so called "quality builds" assiociated with Macs is just a myth to justify the crazy price.

What do you mean by well-built? An aluminium case costs 500$? Because the hardware parts are the same, no one builds better hardware just for Macs.

Tech Greek said,
Specs Vs Well Built

Sorry, I've bought all brands/models for either myself or clients. There hasn't been a laptop that's come even close to the quality of my MBP.

To each his own


Some of sony's laptop's are well build as well.

still1 said,

Some of sony's laptop's are well build as well.

I've had an Advent laptop for 4 years now, and has only just started breaking (i.e. plastic around the hinges warping, etc..).

dave164 said,

I've had an Advent laptop for 4 years now, and has only just started breaking (i.e. plastic around the hinges warping, etc..).

I had a MacBook Pro and after 2 years, the webcam stopped working and the superdrive stopped accepting any disks whatsoever.

Tech Greek said,
Specs Vs Well Built
Sorry, I've bought all brands/models for either myself or clients. There hasn't been a laptop that's come even close to the quality of my MBP.
To each his own

Lenovo laptops are used in space station. Haven't seen any macs there...
Macs have a polished look which people like. They don't include crap load of connectors like most previous regular laptops would however, that changed and majority of regular laptops have already caught up.

Tech Greek said,
Specs Vs Well Built

Sorry, I've bought all brands/models for either myself or clients. There hasn't been a laptop that's come even close to the quality of my MBP.

To each his own

Completely agree. The design of a MBP is defiantly rock solid all ways around and I don't think a single hardware vendor can say otherwise. The switch to x64 arch was a good move with the C2D+ chipsets.
Its rock solid likely because its not expandable, which is their biggest downfall... The OSX software has proven itself to be competitive, fast and reliable - which in itself is more than Microsoft can say.. After Windows Me, Win 2000, Win XP, windows Vista.. all had really rocky bumpy horrible starts and slow adaptation stages. Windows 7 was the first 'good' out of the box MS released. period. No problems like this on a Mac. everything works. MacOS wasn't the best OS but at least it didn't BSOD and randomly refuse to boot requiring a format/reinstall.

Ruciz said,

Windows 7 was the first 'good' out of the box MS released.

Umm, yea. You obviously dont know what you are talking about. I will give you ME and Vista...but 2k and XP were solid.

Specs Vs Well Built

Sorry, I've bought all brands/models for either myself or clients. There hasn't been a laptop that's come even close to the quality of my MBP.

To each his own

So you bought every single model of PC laptop and tried them all out? I find that hard to believe since there are hundreds. And if you did, they you would notice that the E series of Dell Laptops are solid with no issues. Hell, the LCD doesnt even flap around overtime like the D series of Dell laptops. And Lenovo rocks as well.

Tech Greek said,
Specs Vs Well Built

Sorry, I've bought all brands/models for either myself or clients. There hasn't been a laptop that's come even close to the quality of my MBP.

To each his own

never used a thinkpad i guess

Ruciz said,
After Windows Me, Win 2000, Win XP, windows Vista.. all had really rocky bumpy horrible starts and slow adaptation stages. Windows 7 was the first 'good' out of the box MS released. period. No problems like this on a Mac. everything works. MacOS wasn't the best OS but at least it didn't BSOD and randomly refuse to boot requiring a format/reinstall.

Maybe if you find the time you should read up on the first few OSX versions. "really rocky bumpy horrible start" would be a fitting description. And yeah, they crashed. A lot. Even after that every major release had some more or less serious issues that had to be patched shortly afterwards. But of course there aren't nearly as many users as with Windows so everything is on a much smaller scale.

techbeck said,

So you bought every single model of PC laptop and tried them all out? I find that hard to believe since there are hundreds. And if you did, they you would notice that the E series of Dell Laptops are solid with no issues. Hell, the LCD doesnt even flap around overtime like the D series of Dell laptops. And Lenovo rocks as well.


+1 the Dell Latitude E and Precision M laptops are imensly well built....so I'm not so keen on the new E6420 6410 was better design I think
Lenovo also make really solid builds.

Tech Greek said,
Specs Vs Well Built

Sorry, I've bought all brands/models for either myself or clients. There hasn't been a laptop that's come even close to the quality of my MBP.

To each his own

Hmm, my Macbook Pro 15" died after a year and two months, £700 to replace the logic board. After spending out £1200 on it, that was pretty gutting. Other than that it did still look nice....

Tech Greek said,
Specs Vs Well Built

Sorry, I've bought all brands/models for either myself or clients. There hasn't been a laptop that's come even close to the quality of my MBP.

To each his own


The people I know with Apple computers have the same, if not more hardware problems.

Tech Greek said,
Specs Vs Well Built

Sorry, I've bought all brands/models for either myself or clients. There hasn't been a laptop that's come even close to the quality of my MBP.

To each his own


The people I know with Apple computers have the same, if not more hardware problems. Although they

Tech Greek said,
Specs Vs Well Built

Sorry, I've bought all brands/models for either myself or clients. There hasn't been a laptop that's come even close to the quality of my MBP.

To each his own


I've owned laptops manufactured by Acer, HP, Gateway, Dell, and Toshiba. Not one has compared to the build quality of my mid-2008 MBP. And that's before they implemented the unibody design which I'd kill for. Don't get me wrong, I work on PCs with stellar specs for most of the work that I do, but I truly believe Apple knows how to make a rock solid laptop. You obviously pay a premium, but, for me, it's been worth every penny.

Tech Greek said,
To each his own

Each to his own?
I agree, Apple make nice stuff, they just price themselves out all the time.

McG said,

I've owned laptops manufactured by Acer, HP, Gateway, Dell, and Toshiba. Not one has compared to the build quality of my mid-2008 MBP. And that's before they implemented the unibody design which I'd kill for. Don't get me wrong, I work on PCs with stellar specs for most of the work that I do, but I truly believe Apple knows how to make a rock solid laptop. You obviously pay a premium, but, for me, it's been worth every penny.

Well duh. You need to do an apples to apples comparison here. The companies you listed all have wide varieties of PC builds. I don't see any mention of Sony, Asus, or Lenovo which would make a much better quality comparison. Statements like this are why many people are very disillusioned with the fact that no PC can compare or even surpass a general MBP, because obviously they've never tried the actual premium brands.

Tech Greek said,
Specs Vs Well Built

Sorry, I've bought all brands/models for either myself or clients. There hasn't been a laptop that's come even close to the quality of my MBP.

To each his own

Built in china like everything else, the build quality of apple products when down the drain when they started to get popular and had to pump the products out.

Tech Greek said,
Specs Vs Well Built

Sorry, I've bought all brands/models for either myself or clients. There hasn't been a laptop that's come even close to the quality of my MBP.

To each his own

Are you suggesting that Apple employees who assemble stuff in China or Singapore or whatever do more "well" than their cousins in the Sony plant down the street?

Tech Greek said,
Specs Vs Well Built

Sorry, I've bought all brands/models for either myself or clients. There hasn't been a laptop that's come even close to the quality of my MBP.

To each his own

If it didn't cost more than twice the price of a similarly spec'd laptop, I'd own a MacBook Pro with Windows 7 on it. Until then though, I'll stick with my ~$800 laptop that compares quite well.

Tech Greek said,
Specs Vs Well Built

Sorry, I've bought all brands/models for either myself or clients. There hasn't been a laptop that's come even close to the quality of my MBP.

To each his own

My Vaio lasted me ~4 years before I upgraded, and it still works fine. It just now happens to be in the care of my parents, still going along as it always did. Oh, and it matched/outdid all the specs of that Air in the picture.

techbeck said,

Umm, yea. You obviously dont know what you are talking about. I will give you ME and Vista...but 2k and XP were solid.


And I will give you OS9 and OS8. oh and that flashy Mac is great on the outside but not so good when it comes to the 10 year old GUI that Apple keeps adding Applications to just to make the GUI look more appealing. If you took all the Apps out of a MAC, you would not have much functionality because most everything is basically an "App" in a Mac. The Dock is even an App. There is not much embedded in a Mac except the narrow minded person attached to it.

Tech Greek said,
Specs Vs Well Built

Sorry, I've bought all brands/models for either myself or clients. There hasn't been a laptop that's come even close to the quality of my MBP.

To each his own


I've got two toshibas, one from 1997 and one from 1998, one was £20, the other was free (and had no screen). I got one in 2002 and the other in 2004.
Both are in excellent condition, the battery still works, and lasts a few hours (original batteries), none of the casing is or has broken, and they're brilliant.

So how many thousands did you pay for something of the same quality again...?

Tech Greek said,
Specs Vs Well Built

Sorry, I've bought all brands/models for either myself or clients. There hasn't been a laptop that's come even close to the quality of my MBP.

To each his own

Crapware vs. A Consistent UI across ALL products

I'm sorry, but I will never buy a "manufactured" laptop/desktop over a Mac anymore. With all the crapware that manufacturers put on their machines to offset the cost of the device itself, I wasted valuable time removing any traces of what was put on there. I think paying extra for hardware with a stable OS with no crapware just proves MS' "do the math" campaign as stupid.

styxrtp said,

Crapware vs. A Consistent UI across ALL products

I'm sorry, but I will never buy a "manufactured" laptop/desktop over a Mac anymore. With all the crapware that manufacturers put on their machines to offset the cost of the device itself, I wasted valuable time removing any traces of what was put on there. I think paying extra for hardware with a stable OS with no crapware just proves MS' "do the math" campaign as stupid.

Just reinstall Windows 7 when you buy it. And poof, crapware gone, fresh install, you can install whatever you want. And seriously, Mac is more stable than 7? How much has Jobs brainwashed you...

philcruicks said,

+1 the Dell Latitude E and Precision M laptops are imensly well built....so I'm not so keen on the new E6420 6410 was better design I think
Lenovo also make really solid builds.

agree proud owner of e6510 its build with a better quality than most current dells i can say that maybe match thinkpad quality

Anooxy said,

Lenovo has top-class builds. So does Sony (especially their screens). This so called "quality builds" assiociated with Macs is just a myth to justify the crazy price.

What do you mean by well-built? An aluminium case costs 500$? Because the hardware parts are the same, no one builds better hardware just for Macs.

Dude, don't waste your breath. You can't convince and idiot he's and idoit. You will have better success at getting a smoker not to smoke.