Microsoft may fight Windows 8 piracy by using the cloud

Microsoft is always looking to protect its investments from piracy. While some implementations of quality assurance can be cumbersome and annoying, it is a necessary evil for Microsoft to protect its intellectual property. 

It has been rumored that Microsoft is going to be integrating cloud based services into Window 8, so it only makes sense that they will also implement security features to thwart piracy that use cloud based services. Rumorpedia states that "Windows 8 will synchronize a couple of kernel files directly from Microsoft cloud servers, not only preventing privacy (at least temporary) but also allowing instant system updates for some of the components (no reboot required)."

The idea seems plausible as the vast majority of computers do connect to the Internet on a regular basis. There will also be a backup kernel file stored locally for instances where the computer can not contact Microsoft's servers. 

If Microsoft does implement this feature, depending on how regularly they update the kernel files on the servers, it could pose a serious blockade for would be pirates. While it may be possible to pirate Windows 8 for offline use, in the Internet era, that leaves a lot to be desired. 

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If you want Windows and think it's a good product (I do actually, I just choose not to use it), then why would you not pay the people responsible for creating it? Do you go to McDonalds and expect to get your food for free? If you don't want to spend money, then find a Linux operating system that suits your needs and use that. There are a lot of very good ones out there. I can't understand why people pirate Windows when there are so many good alternatives.

Hopefully this one doesn't annoy users, but we all know that won't happen. I'm tired of phoning in to activate Windows... it's annoying after 20+ times doing it.

Tha Bloo Monkee said,
Hopefully this one doesn't annoy users, but we all know that won't happen. I'm tired of phoning in to activate Windows... it's annoying after 20+ times doing it.

If you've reinstalled the same copy of Windows 20+ times mate, I'm sorry to tell you this, but the problem is on your end, not on Microsoft's.

Juust the idea of requiring "cloud" access for my operating system sounds wholey absurd to me. This makes me extremely uncomfortable on many levels. I don't believe cloud access should EVER be a requirement for an OS. I've personally witnessed WGA wreack havoc, even the "Activation" system alone. I would have to agree with C_Guy that the best way to combat is to give incentive to NOT pirate to begin with rather than go to extreme measures and "invade" my internet connection. I truly hope this does not come to pass and is entirely hogwash. But, it is Microsoft so I wouldn't put it past them.

I would immediatly opt in for this if it was an option, but it just the principle.

if ms were to do this then it would drive users back to windows 7 or xp or even move to linux or mac because not everyone has access to the net all the time and what if the net goes down even for a second then you would be locked out of what you paid for. also laptop/netbook users would be affected the most as they are not always connected to the net all the time. bad move ms if you plan to do this.

Windows 8 isn't even here yet, and yet some are getting angry over nothing but at this point rumors.
I have no problems with Windows and anti piracy, Microsoft spends millions on development and I pay for my copies of Windows.
I own Macs as well and Apple is more lenient on use of OSX, but then again the price of the very expensive hardware alone Makes Apple less critical about the Licenses.

Recently I have seen another hack for Adobe photoshop CS. Their previous activation was insert your serial key and Adobe will try to connect internet to activate your copy and the second option was if you dont have internet connection then they will ask you to phone and get activation code. Now there were so many keygens which generated the activation code which miserably failed adobe activation method. Now Adobe CS5 has implemented activation methode by online only. You put your serial and whenever your computer is online it will try to connect with adobe server to activate your copy. Now this has become more easier for activation. Now you got two options. 1. First, block all adobe connection for activation server by using any decent firewall. 2. Modify host file, if you dont have firewall, to 127.0.0.1. so all activation connection will never go to adbove server and your copy will be valid forever. As it will never connect to adobe server and your key will also never get checked.

Auditor said,
Recently I have seen another hack for Adobe photoshop CS. Their previous activation was insert your serial key and Adobe will try to connect internet to activate your copy and the second option was if you dont have internet connection then they will ask you to phone and get activation code. Now there were so many keygens which generated the activation code which miserably failed adobe activation method. Now Adobe CS5 has implemented activation methode by online only. You put your serial and whenever your computer is online it will try to connect with adobe server to activate your copy. Now this has become more easier for activation. Now you got two options. 1. First, block all adobe connection for activation server by using any decent firewall. 2. Modify host file, if you dont have firewall, to 127.0.0.1. so all activation connection will never go to adbove server and your copy will be valid forever. As it will never connect to adobe server and your key will also never get checked.

I've seen that the serials provided have already expired, what they do is the same as CS4, they patch the amitbdl.dll file.

Can people please RTFA. It will not REQUIRE an internet connection. There will be an offline mode. So it won't cost you your previous 45kb a month.

Regardz

Everyone is bashing at Windows "8" as if it was entirely cloud based. What if not? What if apps where the only one needed to be connected on the Internet?

Not everyone in the world have a download rate of 1 Mbps, where you could download anything in a fly. In my country a download rate of an Mbps costs around 150 US$ monthly (Excluding phone and TV). So if they are implementing that system as people in this news post think, I'll be staying with Windows 7, until my printer's cartridge isn't manufactured anymore.

someone may emulate the OS connecting to the servers and thus, bypass the whole genuine thing altogether. it'd be a process that has to run as the OS starts, i'd imagine. but i wonder what happens to computers that never touch the internet. the locally stored files are basically so people can use the OS offline only? but if they want to go online, it must authenticate permission to go online? internet company's are gonna scream anti-trust, won't they? well, i guess i used the wrong terminology, i just wanna sound big

Izlude said,
someone may emulate the OS connecting to the servers and thus, bypass the whole genuine thing altogether. it'd be a process that has to run as the OS starts, i'd imagine. but i wonder what happens to computers that never touch the internet. the locally stored files are basically so people can use the OS offline only? but if they want to go online, it must authenticate permission to go online? internet company's are gonna scream anti-trust, won't they? well, i guess i used the wrong terminology, i just wanna sound big

Yeah.... But it is not as easy as it sounds.

Unless they validate every key individually, this won't change much. We all know how long WGA on Windows Update took to crack.

amon91 said,
Unless they validate every key individually, this won't change much. We all know how long WGA on Windows Update took to crack.

yepp.

GS:mac

norseman said,
With bandwidth caps being what they currently are -- I don't see this happening anytime soon.

you think microsoft cares?

no worries, they will have a solution for those too *eyerolls*

GS:mac

Me no like teh cloud.
Cloud shall move on for me, move to parts of the tech country where people do not want a clear and proper sky.

I don't like cloud raining on my computer.

GS:mac

MafiotuL said,
So... MAC OS or Linux, Here I come!

+1

not much of a contribution to your arguments, my apologies but really MS enough.

Microsoft could do so much better. I think a better idea would be a complete remote session with only a dumb terminal. No need to buy anything besides a good monitor and an Atom box. The user would pay a monthly free for their desktop in the clouds and applications. It would help with those frustrated by the speed of Windows 7, and bring back the hour glass.

If you don't have internet access at the moment due network issues you could watch television (oh wait, IPTV), well you could call a friend (no, VOIP). Well you have your wireless phone. Oh, wait everyone will connect too and that 3g network will be really slow. Well, you could read a book or maybe bring out your grandfather's typewriter or something.

This is all just speculation, until we know more about Windows 8 (apart from it will make use of the cloud) nobody knows if things will pan out this way!

Partition 1: Win 7; 2: Win Xp; Virtualized Win98... Ubuntu installed "as a file" in the partition number 3.

I think I'm gonna remaind like this windows let me to use it offline completely, another interesting os will be Chrome Os... or the Android port that Intel was doing...

I just wanna know how many people that would gripe about this think Chrome OS is awesome. If there's one thing I've learned about the tech community, it's that it betches and moans whenever some new anti-piracy measure comes out, even if it's transparent and user-friendly. They dress it up as some sort of principle, or come up with scenarios where it might be inconvenient, even though those scenarios probably will never apply to them personally. They argue that this will just push people to other, more open OSes, such as Mac (or so their imagination tells them) and Linux, which has only ever been successful in the consumer space for very brief spurts of time before something more commercial comes along and stomps it, or when it has the backing of a huge commercial entity in the first place (hi, Android).

Personally, I like the idea of a cloud OS that's well made, but I'm not the sort of person who pretends to be offended by WGA (which is virtually transparent to legit users), either. I'm not going to sit here and make myself sound like a retard by saying Microsoft is neglecting businesses or laptop owners, as if those environments aren't part of the plan and being taken into consideration. I'm not going to sit here and make myself sound like a retard by believing there's something I've thought up in a tech blog comment post that's genius enough not to have been thought of during planning in Redmond.

Y'all need to come down off your own pedestals. You're not that smart, you're not that special, and while the media does a great job at treating the common man like his common sense is superior to anything that would come out of a professional, it's not actually always the truth.

Sometimes the cloud makes sense -- other times it doesn't... more secure individual, biz, gov, military/defense installs come to mind. Making the cloud mandatory would mean they wouldn't upgrade to or use win8 -- something MS wouldn't be happy about at all, especially come bonus time. If it came to be seen as a built-in root-kit, wide-spread acceptance could be in a word: challenging. Far as every install/update not requiring a re-boot or log-off or whatever to reload, IMHO that would be a pretty radical departure for any OS, assuming it was indeed possible -- the only thing that comes to mind at the moment would be something along the lines of a VM hosting server loading a 2nd, updated VM & shutting down the original... it would still be a re-load, but the switch-over might be made to seem almost instantaneous.

Common sense [IMHO] would suggest either the cloud as an added feature the way touch etc. is optional to 7, or 7 becoming the new XP, living on years past its MS planned retirement.

It'll be hacked within days, if not before release to general public. Shame really. Windows has gotten better since Vista.

I like the old style anti-piracy measures where ownership was verified by enclosing something tangible in the box that you would need to start or use the software. You know like you would buy King's Quest IV and you had to have the manual handy so you could enter a keyword on startup. Or in Leisure Suit Larry 7 when you had to have the Cyber Sniff 2000 Scratch'n'Sniff card so you could identify a certain scent at some point in the game.

And like today's anti-piracy measures, these could be defeated with some effort. But the difference is, these measures required minimal effort and often enhanced gameplay. And the packages included little bonuses that made the purchase worthwhile. It was worth the money to have your own copy because you got your own disks, nicely printed manual and other materials, and bonus items. Sierra's older games shipped with maps, bar napkins, postcards, coupons, catalogs, sweepstakes entries, and other goodies.

Today, anti-piracy measures have had mixed results. Things like Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA) have surely prevented some software casual copying but it's also caused a problem with legit customers in some cases.

A determined pirate will always win over DRM or anti-piracy measures. I believe the best way to minimize piracy is by offering more incentive to make the purchase in the first place rather than trying to identify who should be punished. That's why I won't buy a Ubisoft game that requires me to be online. You don't need to check my game every time I play to be sure it's legit.

Well said!

Actually, if Ubisoft would have only made internet access mandatory during the start of the game, I would have bought it. Annoying yes, but tolerable. But they went too far by force closing your game session without even allowing you to save if you lost your connection midway!

C_Guy said,
I like the old style anti-piracy measures where ownership was verified by enclosing something tangible in the box that you would need to start or use the software. You know like you would buy King's Quest IV and you had to have the manual handy so you could enter a keyword on startup....

Yeah that was the way to do it. I remember that. In the manual on page 17 what is the 3rd word down in paragraph x.

C_Guy said,
I believe the best way to minimize piracy is by offering more incentive to make the purchase in the first place rather than trying to identify who should be punished.

I love the way you think.

Tha Bloo Monkee said,
Imagine if you had to call your car company everytime you wanted to drive your car...

Imagine if you spent tons of money to build a great car, and someone took that car, zapped it with a cloning gun, ripped out the car's key mechanism, and gave it away to anyone who wanted it, right across the street from your dealership?

This is the exact same thing I posted the first time you said this line.

The fact of the matter is that everyone is ok with using the Internet, with letting Google track their surfing habits, the ISPs tracking their IP history, with Facebook watching their every move on the internet, with Foursquare knowing their location, with cell carriers having the ability to track and record your movements, but no, ask if Microsoft can quietly and silently ping back their servers every once in a while for validity checks, and you've just started WWIII.

it's pathetic. People feel so entitled to bitch and whine about Microsoft and their anti-piracy methods but no one wants to step back and take a flipping look at how much worse they do every day on the internet.

Why would anyone normal pay for a new OS that cant be used without a connection and pay some more for the connection and on top of that hand all your data to a US company when you already have a working OS? I think even Microsoft isn't that stupid.

Sasa_RI said,
Why would anyone normal pay for a new OS that cant be used without a connection and pay some more for the connection and on top of that hand all your data to a US company when you already have a working OS? I think even Microsoft isn't that stupid.

It is just like paying for a brand new Blu-Ray DVD player and having to connect it to the internet. Then paying the big price to buy a Blu-Ray movie and finding out you can't play it on your player because the studio had a fight with the distributor and they put a patch in your player that prevent you from playing that particular movie.

Don't laught, it really happened.

Captain555 said,

It is just like paying for a brand new Blu-Ray DVD player and having to connect it to the internet. Then paying the big price to buy a Blu-Ray movie and finding out you can't play it on your player because the studio had a fight with the distributor and they put a patch in your player that prevent you from playing that particular movie.

Don't laught, it really happened.

Bluray DVD player?

Sasa_RI said,
Why would anyone normal pay for a new OS that cant be used without a connection and pay some more for the connection and on top of that hand all your data to a US company when you already have a working OS? I think even Microsoft isn't that stupid.

Where exactly did it say that it "cant be used without a connection"? Need some goggles?

netsendjoe said,
Oh noes! SLIC 3.0 !

exactly. There will always be some sort of OEM offline activation because OEMs don't have time to activate a gillion copies of windows.

netsendjoe said,
Oh noes! SLIC 3.0 !

finally, I was shocked to see so little about this here. it doesn't matter whether validation sits in the cloud if the mechanism for OEMs is hardware based. Unless OEMs implement a "smart" bios or efi there will be just another slic bypass.

Seems like they will make the software so anti-piracy proof that people that have legit copies will end up with issues. What if someone was to come out with a virus that would render your entire operating system useless based on this cloud anti piracy technology? Seems like this would be very easy to do cause Microsoft is trying all kinds of ways to keep pirates at bay..but not thinking about the occasional user that could have all their data corrupted by someone that is able to manipulate the operating system on someone's computer.

It's like Microsoft is inventing all kinds of ways to lock the door..but not inventing ways to make sure there is a way to unlock the door when you can't open it again.

Xenomorph said,
This 100% "fool proof" anti-piracy feature will be cracked three months before Windows 8 hits store shelves.

I'D say 6 months.

Xenomorph said,
This 100% "fool proof" anti-piracy feature will be cracked three months before Windows 8 hits store shelves.

Please give me a single Windows 7 activator that WORKS and doesn't trash your system.

RealFduch said,
Please give me a single Windows 7 activator that WORKS and doesn't trash your system.

Can't really do that here. If you look at the right place, you'll find one.

RealFduch said,

Please give me a single Windows 7 activator that WORKS and doesn't trash your system.

That's pretty ignorant of you. For the sake of obeying the rules, I'm going to leave it at that, but if you don't think one exists, you haven't been on the internet.

If this or anything remotely like this ever happens i will seriously consider switching to another Operating System.

I value Microsoft's Software but it seems their methods are becoming more and more intrusive, potentially causing inconvenience to those who are quite happy to purchase their software because of pirates. Windows 7 was their best and fastest selling OS, that's because its sensible and works, stick to what you know MS, PLEASE!

The idea of having an Offline Mode doesn't work either because once you have that then the whole cloud based 'anti-piracy' system will be easily circumnavigated. Where there is a will, there is a way and as fast as new technologies are put in place, people are knocking out cracks left right and centre.

The 'cloud' doesn't really appeal to me that much anyway, i like to physically own my Software, My Games, My Computer. Once it becomes 'virtual' i lose that sense of ownership.

DKcomputers said,
If this or anything remotely like this ever happens i will seriously consider switching to another Operating System.

I value Microsoft's Software but it seems their methods are becoming more and more intrusive, potentially causing inconvenience to those who are quite happy to purchase their software because of pirates. Windows 7 was their best and fastest selling OS, that's because its sensible and works, stick to what you know MS, PLEASE!

The idea of having an Offline Mode doesn't work either because once you have that then the whole cloud based 'anti-piracy' system will be easily circumnavigated. Where there is a will, there is a way and as fast as new technologies are put in place, people are knocking out cracks left right and centre.

The 'cloud' doesn't really appeal to me that much anyway, i like to physically own my Software, My Games, My Computer. Once it becomes 'virtual' i lose that sense of ownership.

Please do tell, since it seems everyone is an expert on criticizing Microsoft for their anti-piracy efforts, what would you do?

DKcomputers said,

The 'cloud' doesn't really appeal to me that much anyway, i like to physically own my Software, My Games, My Computer. Once it becomes 'virtual' i lose that sense of ownership.

Technically, you are already not an owner of most of the commercial software you use, including Windows.

The current Windows 7 activation is annoying enough..

Its unfair for users who paid so much money to get original copy and still have to go through so much annoying process.

lomas said,
The current Windows 7 activation is annoying enough..

Its unfair for users who paid so much money to get original copy and still have to go through so much annoying process.

What exactly was so annoying about entering a key in Computer Properties and letting it phone home to the mothership quickly and then done?

ensiform said,
What exactly was so annoying about entering a key in Computer Properties and letting it phone home to the mothership quickly and then done?

I had 3 customers in the last few weeks that came back to the store with valid license of Win 7, and after a certain pacth that Windows did, their valid license were suddenly blacklisted.

Do you have any idea how many hoops I had to go thru before I got those problems resolved with those genius at MS. And nobody is paying for that time I'm wasting because those PCs were on warranty. They didn't even say "We're sorry".

ensiform said,

What exactly was so annoying about entering a key in Computer Properties and letting it phone home to the mothership quickly and then done?

What about a legit copy of Office 2007, fully activated, that while I was abroad stopped working at 9:00 AM and I had a very important appointment at 10:00 AM? I ended up rushing to buy a new copy of Office. Now, did MS and its faulty activation process refunded us? No they did not!

Fritzly said,

What about a legit copy of Office 2007, fully activated, that while I was abroad stopped working at 9:00 AM and I had a very important appointment at 10:00 AM? I ended up rushing to buy a new copy of Office. Now, did MS and its faulty activation process refunded us? No they did not!

Why buy a new one? Why not just call the activation center and rearm?

GreyWolf said,

Why buy a new one? Why not just call the activation center and rearm?

Because with one hour deadline I could not risk wasting time looking for a phone # to call in the Country I was and then spend time with a rep in some call center explaining that I was trying to reactivate a software bought in the US that suddendly stopped working and being at the mercy of the guy on the other side and risking to need to escalate the issue. Granted if I was in my office I would have done it but I was not.

Captain555 said,

I had 3 customers in the last few weeks that came back to the store with valid license of Win 7, and after a certain pacth that Windows did, their valid license were suddenly blacklisted.

Do you have any idea how many hoops I had to go thru before I got those problems resolved with those genius at MS. And nobody is paying for that time I'm wasting because those PCs were on warranty. They didn't even say "We're sorry".

Sadly yes I do know about those mysterious deactivations. Mainly from what I've understood is that when Microsoft pushes out a list of blacklisted keys they do a huge chunk even if legitimate keys happen to fall in to that category. (This happened with XP as well) Knowing that some people who aren't tech savvy enough or able to spend the time to call/fix it, they'll just buy a new PC and or copy of Windows thus more money for them.

Well if W8 will implemented such "Features" I will stick with W7 for a while and then look for something else.
I am not going to be at the mercy of an internet connection to use our computers.

Microsoft will also probably want to resurrect their plan of a subscription based OS as well with this. "You missed this month's payment? No, computer for you......!" I see popularity of Linux growing....

Huh? Sounds strange.

If MS can update their kernel files to restore tampered files without reboots, then so can also the cracks, in order to automatically restore the pre-restored files? Or do the OS treat software differently, and allow them to do different things? That would be a first. And a scary precedent.

DVSBSTD said,
So, Ubisoft's DRM Windows Edition?
And we all saw how quickly that was cracked...

In all reality, the only way to prevent piracy is to go cloud-based entirely, no local copy at all. But that will not happen (at least hopefully) with OSs until everyone has fast and cheap internet access with lots of bandwidth. Even then, all it takes is someone to create a server emulation to act as the "cloud" and you have that cracked (think World of Warcraft private servers), but that will take much more time and effort to bypass through emulation than standard DRM used today, and it won't realistically be used large-scale until everyone has easy access to the internet.

"Windows 8 will synchronize a couple of kernel files directly from Microsoft cloud servers, not only preventing privacy (at least temporary)

Well I'm not using it then, Privacy is kind of key really

Teebor said,

Well I'm not using it then, Privacy is kind of key really


Are you one of those trojan-ridden spam zombies that turn Windows Update off?

RealFduch said,

Are you one of those trojan-ridden spam zombies that turn Windows Update off?

I believe he was pointing out a possibly typo. If the article is about piracy, why would privacy suddenly appear? And besides... think about it "preventing privacy," sounds pretty funky huh?

RealFduch said,

Are you one of those trojan-ridden spam zombies that turn Windows Update off?

Reading skills FTW! it says Privacy and should have said Piracy

Therefore if you have no privacy on your computer by using this why would you want to use it?

Actually, Google exists to sell advertising. But go ahead and put all your eggs in the Google basket oh wise one.

Microsoft is basically going to turn windows piracy protection into the way multiplayer games work. Sure, you can download a game and play single player, but once you try to "connect", it's a different ball game. If Microsoft does this, then basically you would be able to pirate it for "offline" use, but once you connect to the internet, you're stuck.

RealFduch said,

Any proof? Show me some keygen for Windows Vista/7.

No keygen for Windows, since I own a legit copy of it...

But the biggest example of nothing being "uncrackable" for me is the PS3... Nuff said?

RealFduch said,

Any proof? Show me some keygen for Windows Vista/7.

?? Are you living under a rock?

Windows 7 was (sadly) cracked BEFORE it released to the public! Hint: Hazar
Windows Vista was also cracked in no time! Hint: PARADOX

I say sadly because I don't support piracy at all, it is plain as day stealing. But news of these cracks spread like wildfire on the internet when they were released! It would have most probably been mentioned in newspapers also at the time.

phantasia said,

No keygen for Windows, since I own a legit copy of it...

But the biggest example of nothing being "uncrackable" for me is the PS3... Nuff said?


Wrong. PS3 is even faster and better to crack than xbox 360. Games do not have region, and you just don't need to update the latest firmware. That aside, generally downloading more than 10 GB can be a pain in the ass. Other than that it IS crackable. (Almost as same as the PSP)

Microsoft focus has always been targeting those who sell pirated copies of their products. If I'm not mistaken, on xp it will only nag you to death about your copy not being original, and you will be locked out of some updates. On vista/7 I have no idea. but they could easily take the 'disabling the pirated copy' way and they've never done it. Because it is those people that could inadvertently increase the user base of open source alternatives.

Julius Caro said,
but they could easily take the 'disabling the pirated copy' way and they've never done it.
And they never will. There's too much liability in disabling an operating system. They could inadvertently shut down an entire company or a university with a simple mistake. And Microsoft's activation clearinghouse has been far from perfect.

boogerjones said,
And they never will. There's too much liability in disabling an operating system. They could inadvertently shut down an entire company or a university with a simple mistake. And Microsoft's activation clearinghouse has been far from perfect.

But what's described in this news doesn't sound that much different. And I'm actually surprised people discuss windows 8 like it was a few months away. Of this so called new feature, we know less than what we knew about WinFS

Whose twitter account is this, whose website is Neowin? What does it matter, we know microsoft is going to build the cloud into the OS so it only makes sense to use cloud based auth.

They see you troll'n...

Tom W said,

My point was less of a question and more of a statement I guess. These guys are unknown

Some people might say the same about your new website, but everyone has to start somewhere.

JMann said,

Some people might say the same about your new website, but everyone has to start somewhere.

Sure but I've been covering Microsoft for over 10 years so I think I'm somewhat more known in that area. This is simply a random site that's cropped up out of the middle of nowhere from what I can tell.

Tom W said,

Sure but I've been covering Microsoft for over 10 years so I think I'm somewhat more known in that area. This is simply a random site that's cropped up out of the middle of nowhere from what I can tell.

Maybe they had a lot of posts about Microsoft on a forum before they started a site too.

Tom W said,

My point was less of a question and more of a statement I guess. These guys are unknown

Everyone starts from somewhere, Just because you don't know them doesn't mean what they are saying is irrelevant. You are unknown to alot of people should they disregard your site?

Leroy Jethro Gibbs said,
Guys chill he's (Tom W) not on trial !

I would hope a person on a trial would get the same treatment as someone that has been here a while, If not why not?

Ominous said,
Tighter cloud integration, more vulnerable to effects of loss of internet connectivity.

Depends on the implementation. It should gracefully degrade to an offline OS.

lookup address host file or a adaptation of this will prevent it.

Cloud only computing can be protected to an extent (hacking their servers being the only other way) but having local files will just cause people to route check against a local file.

Will only stop updates for a small period of time until people make a work-a-round for that.

"There will also be a backup kernel file stored locally for instances where the computer can not contact Microsoft's servers. "

That part alone makes it sound as though it'd be easily defeated.

tele-fragd said,
"There will also be a backup kernel file stored locally for instances where the computer can not contact Microsoft's servers. "

That part alone makes it sound as though it'd be easily defeated.


But everytime you turn on your PC, using a cloud based OS, it has to connect to the server.
If you dont connect, you cant access anything

aftas said,

But everytime you turn on your PC, using a cloud based OS, it has to connect to the server.
If you dont connect, you cant access anything

obviously you will have a local copy incase your not connected, i actually am liking the idea of a cloud based OS though

aftas said,

But everytime you turn on your PC, using a cloud based OS, it has to connect to the server.
If you dont connect, you cant access anything

Exactly. Once setup this way, "anything" connected to a "valid" MS software would broadcast it. Once MS makes it a per-user or per-location validation, it's over. At some point the cloud will do the executions and play video "or whatever data" back, so there will be no playing with anything, not much different than trying to hack a TV station via your TV.

aftas said,

But everytime you turn on your PC, using a cloud based OS, it has to connect to the server.
If you dont connect, you cant access anything

So lets say I own a business and a Desktop yet I move to a new city and wont have an ISP for 2 months. So your saying Im out of a PC for 2 months that has my entire Quick Books and documents on my company just because Microsoft requires us to be connect to their cloud server in order to use their OS which renders my computer and basically my business useless?

I dont see them doing this. As another commentor said it would just increases the popularity of open source operating systems or better yet.. I'm A Mac..

The Protagonist said,

obviously you will have a local copy incase your not connected, i actually am liking the idea of a cloud based OS though

I am not liking the idea of wasting bandwidth on something that can be done offline. I know this will cause some major problems in countries like Germany where the majority of users are on plans where they only pay for what they use.

ILikeTobacco said,

I am not liking the idea of wasting bandwidth on something that can be done offline. I know this will cause some major problems in countries like Germany where the majority of users are on plans where they only pay for what they use.


+1 and what about companies with thousands of PCs? Usually they download patches once and send them locally but now every computer would download part of the kernel all the time? Sounds like a huge waste

Morphine-X said,

So lets say I own a business and a Desktop yet I move to a new city and wont have an ISP for 2 months. So your saying Im out of a PC for 2 months that has my entire Quick Books and documents on my company just because Microsoft requires us to be connect to their cloud server in order to use their OS which renders my computer and basically my business useless?

I dont see them doing this. As another commentor said it would just increases the popularity of open source operating systems or better yet.. I'm A Mac..


Why would you have to wait 2 months for an ISP? Completely unrealisictic scenario.

Rudy said,

+1 and what about companies with thousands of PCs? Usually they download patches once and send them locally but now every computer would download part of the kernel all the time? Sounds like a huge waste

It would still be local servers serving the kernel file. The article also states that it is part of the kernel that is downloaded, and the Win7 kernel (after a quick Google search) is about 25MB, so these components of the kernel would be much less than that

If your corporate infrastructure cannot handle that (and lets face it, there are few times where every computer is going to be booted at the same time, as fat client desktops are often left on for overnight updating, and thin clients take up more bandwidth anyways) you have a problem

bob_c_b said,

Why would you have to wait 2 months for an ISP? Completely unrealisictic scenario.

because sometimes you live in places not like US where you have to wait more than one month for an internet conection :-)

Sraf said,

It would still be local servers serving the kernel file. The article also states that it is part of the kernel that is downloaded, and the Win7 kernel (after a quick Google search) is about 25MB, so these components of the kernel would be much less than that

If your corporate infrastructure cannot handle that (and lets face it, there are few times where every computer is going to be booted at the same time, as fat client desktops are often left on for overnight updating, and thin clients take up more bandwidth anyways) you have a problem

Ok this is speculation anyway, but for company environments it would be different - I'd guess at some kind of WSUS type scenario but with validation techniques built in - so the central server would get the updated Kernel and clients get it from the central server, but there would be some kind of auth that goes with it.

npierri said,

because sometimes you live in places not like US where you have to wait more than one month for an internet conection :-)

Thus the reason for an offline mode.

aftas said,

But everytime you turn on your PC, using a cloud based OS, it has to connect to the server.
If you dont connect, you cant access anything

Sounds like quite a weakness for those using their laptops when not on a WiFi. Like on an airplane. Or an airport, and when you don't want to pay expensive tickets to use the airport WiFi. Or when on a café, and also don't want overpriced WiFi connectivity.

There are many times you like to do work on your computer but don't need (or have) Internet connectivity. Even today. Such as when you do photo post-processing, composing music, writing documents, or playing games.

I'm sure Win8 will have offline support, but then we're back again at the obvious piracy weakness here. Will MS force users to go online every month?

Somebody will find a way around it. Either that or Win 7 will become the next Win XP, it will survive for years and years, because nobody will want to touch Win 8. Then Win 9 will come along, if MS still exist, and it will be something else.

How does that song goes ? "Wheels in the sky, keep turming ..."

bob_c_b said,

Why would you have to wait 2 months for an ISP? Completely unrealisictic scenario.

Do you think so? Kudos if you have an ISP that is at least half decent... Few days ago I had an argument over the phone with one of my ISP attendants that I could really live without... Having to threat suing them and go to another company to get a "discount" that is just the regular price nowadays (I have an old contract) is just something we should not be subjected to... Their response to my suggestion to terminate the old contract and make new one was that it could then not be available in my area (wtf?). So yes, some ISPs out there will leave us on our own if given the chance...

bob_c_b said,

Why would you have to wait 2 months for an ISP? Completely unrealisictic scenario.

How unrealistic is it to not live in the USA?

bob_c_b said,

Why would you have to wait 2 months for an ISP? Completely unrealisictic scenario.

parts of New Zealand you have to wait from 1-9 mnths for internet connection, thats if your lucky

Rudy said,

+1 and what about companies with thousands of PCs? Usually they download patches once and send them locally but now every computer would download part of the kernel all the time? Sounds like a huge waste

For companies like that, they're probably running on a Windows Server. In Server 2003/2008/7, there's software called "WSUS" (Windows Server Update Services). It downloads all updates to the server and just pushes it over the local network to the client machines.

Northgrove said,

Sounds like quite a weakness for those using their laptops when not on a WiFi. Like on an airplane. Or an airport, and when you don't want to pay expensive tickets to use the airport WiFi. Or when on a café, and also don't want overpriced WiFi connectivity.

There are many times you like to do work on your computer but don't need (or have) Internet connectivity. Even today. Such as when you do photo post-processing, composing music, writing documents, or playing games.

I'm sure Win8 will have offline support, but then we're back again at the obvious piracy weakness here. Will MS force users to go online every month?

According to the article, you should be able to use it offline, though, once you connect to the internet, synchronization of the kernel will occur:

There will also be a backup kernel file stored locally for instances where the computer can not contact Microsoft's servers.

Jack Musick said,

For companies like that, they're probably running on a Windows Server. In Server 2003/2008/7, there's software called "WSUS" (Windows Server Update Services). It downloads all updates to the server and just pushes it over the local network to the client machines.

If that were the case, you just told everyone how to get around the whole thing. Run a vm with the server software and point your machine to it. Wouldn't be a very good solution to stopping piracy if it were really that easy to get around.

bob_c_b said,

Why would you have to wait 2 months for an ISP? Completely unrealisictic scenario.
Because some ISPs are so backed up they can't get a guy out to your location for at least 3-5 weeks depending on the time of season, location of the city, and current demand. Not to mention the fact that some area's aren't yet covered in certain pipelines. It's a very realistic scenario as I've had to wait 2 months to get a guy out here from Comcast. Lets look at another scenario than, what if I owe a bill that I refuse to pay because they charged me double for no reason, am I being forced to not be able to use my PC now because I don't have internet?

If they correct this by allowing a local copy of the kernel of some sort than it defeats the concept of using the cloud server to beat piracy lol.. All in all they're wasting money and may possibly be venturing down the DRM road of OSes which has failed for the gaming industry time and time again.

If they offer an offline mode tha that right there just beat them at their own game. Even if the moment you connect to the internet you would have to connect to their could server. The only question is... WHere within the OS is it set/configured to connect to the cloud server. That is the weakness that will thwart their idea of beating piracy.

Edited by Morphine-X, Dec 2 2010, 3:48am :