Microsoft not specifically after Windows Phone 7.8 suggestions

Earlier this week Microsoft excited many users in the Windows Phone camp by posting on their Windows Phone User Voice site asking what features users specifically want to come to Windows Phone 7.8. Originally only the improved Start Screen was named to come to legacy devices, but it seems Microsoft wanted to improve the experience by adding some additional features.

Despite in the original statement by a Windows Phone team member asking "SPECIFICALLY what features you would like to see on 7.8", the team now appears to have backtracked on this statement, offering a different explanation on their site at the moment.

We are truly floored over the excitement about future Windows Phone releases. Unfortunately our earlier response on this post was not well worded. We really do care about your feedback. This forum is intended to seek suggestions on future product features but it is not set up to take requests for specific product versions. We apologize for the confusion.

We would like to reinforce that for this forum to work optimally we would need users to create unique suggestions each with a single idea. This particular suggestion item has many varied ideas and because of that we aren’t able to infer what is the most important to this forum. Please reallocate your votes to other suggestions that have a single idea.

This is in response to a post with nearly 60,000 votes asking for Windows Phone 7.8 to include native screenshots, Internet Explorer 10, over-the-air updates, Office 2013, Skype VoIP, DataSmart, new languages and new dictation. Comments in this thread also list pretty much every other Windows Phone 8 feature planned for the main release to new devices; features Microsoft are clearly not going to add to legacy devices.

While the Windows Phone team has essentially stated that they will not be taking requests for Windows Phone 7.8 specifically, there is hope as they still ask for users to voice their ideas for features individually - although it has now been clarified to suggest that Microsoft are not specifically after Windows Phone 7.8 feature requests, but general requests like the User Voice service has been used for in the past.

So you can continue to submit your suggestions to User Voice for features you'd like to see in Windows Phone 7.8, although it doesn't look like Microsoft will be looking to specially integrate heavily requested features.

Source: User Voice via WMPowerUser

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Metro is our design language. It's fluid and modern and completely authentic. You're going to see Metro everywhere to describe all the cool new stuff in connection with Windows 8. Metro. Metro typography. Metro Apps.

Later:
Metro was simply a code name we used while Windows 8 was in Beta. Now that it's a finished product, we will not use Metro, but something else. Now we call it the bland "Modern".

See a pattern here with Microsoft?

devHead said,
Metro is our design language. It's fluid and modern and completely authentic. You're going to see Metro everywhere to describe all the cool new stuff in connection with Windows 8. Metro. Metro typography. Metro Apps.

Later:
Metro was simply a code name we used while Windows 8 was in Beta. Now that it's a finished product, we will not use Metro, but something else. Now we call it the bland "Modern".

See a pattern here with Microsoft?

Um...

Metro is our design language

Note the word DESIGN here?

Also re-read what you posted, and notice the references that graphic artists would relate and understand and would not imply it was a 'product' but a 'method of production'.

Metro exists, but it was NEVER a product, it was a DESIGN philosophy.

Get it?

thenetavenger said,

Um...


Note the word DESIGN here?

Also re-read what you posted, and notice the references that graphic artists would relate and understand and would not imply it was a 'product' but a 'method of production'.

Metro exists, but it was NEVER a product, it was a DESIGN philosophy.

Get it?

Not to mention all the early design docs that say 'Codename Metro' on them

thenetavenger said,

Um...


Note the word DESIGN here?

Also re-read what you posted, and notice the references that graphic artists would relate and understand and would not imply it was a 'product' but a 'method of production'.

Metro exists, but it was NEVER a product, it was a DESIGN philosophy.

Get it?

Um...

My post was practically a bit. Lighten up, just trying to inject a little humor, bro. You don't have to analyze every post like you're in a courtroom.

Get it?

devHead said,

Um...

My post was practically a bit. Lighten up, just trying to inject a little humor, bro. You don't have to analyze every post like you're in a courtroom.

Get it?

Not a fan of someone calling you out with facts I take it

MsftGaurav said,
Why did they buy WP7 in the first place, an incomplete OS which was only a stopgap till WP8 arrived?

They didn't buy it...they built it.

By this logic you would think companies should only ever create one version of the product, and then just sell that forever.

I see you're rocking a Windows 8 logo there. Why aren't you rocking a Windows 1.01 logo?

MsftGaurav said,
Why did they buy WP7 in the first place, an incomplete OS which was only a stopgap till WP8 arrived?

Windows Phone 7 OS pre-dates Windows 8, and Microsoft's 'Metro' idea was to have cross platform with the Phone, PC/laptop/tablet and xbox. For them to achive that, it was easier (both in cost and effort on their part) to just create a new Windows Phone 8 OS to run along side Windows 8.

The problem is, the life cycle is back again to 3 years for Windows. Unfortunatly, that also means the chances are that in 3 years time, when Windows 9 is released, new Windows Phones will also be released. While that does seem like Microsoft will drop support for Windows 8 devices, because Metro is now set in stone and will always be part of Windows on the desktop/tablet etc there is a very good chance that all phones from WP8 and onward will be backward compatible just newer hardware and features added.

Shane Nokes said,

They didn't buy it...they built it.

By this logic you would think companies should only ever create one version of the product, and then just sell that forever.

I see you're rocking a Windows 8 logo there. Why aren't you rocking a Windows 1.01 logo?

Nope. They should sell something only when it's fairly complete so that it doesn't fail and get stuck with low market share.

MsftGaurav said,
Why did they buy WP7 in the first place, an incomplete OS which was only a stopgap till WP8 arrived?

Incomplete OS?

It is functionally as complete as Android and iOS with a reduced functionality kernel and reduced feature frameworks.

With the NT kernel and the full set of Windows technologies available, WP8 is no longer incomplete, and a far leap from the limited Android/iOS device OSes.

With WP7, Microsoft went with the BEST MVVM development platform they had at the time, knowing it would easily evolve and seamless port. HTML5 and other WinRT technologies were NOT mature enough at the time, and HTML5 is still not as mature as it needs to be.

The 180 for Microsoft was when NT developers were able to get better performance out of the full NT kernel instead of the limited WinCE kernel on low end devices.

This was unexpected, and pushed up the NT across all platform strategy that has been planned for over 10 years.

I think Microsoft was planning on WinCE 7.x new multi-core features and security to take WP7 to WP8 and using the NT kernel as something that would be seen until WP9.

NT was faster than expected with the Windows 8 advances. The reduced RAM modes and demanding less resources than Windows 7 was just not expected to be as dramatic.

Windows 8 on 256mb of RAM and an early 1.xghz P4 runs faster than Windows XP on the same hardware. This also played out on the ARM platform, where 1ghz devices and 512mb of RAM is common, and even with a full NT and a full Windows pre 8 port was faster than Android and iOS, yet having 100 times the features available.

WP7 was progression. Microsoft was smart with the model, as the .NET basis and the MVVM used in developer code can easily be 'recompiled' on Microsoft servers to run completely native on WP8 using the new UI MVVM.


sanke1 said,
It may have 1-2 years life in it, but WP7 is a dead platform. Cold hard fact.

Yet the 'dead' platform Apps will still be running for years.

Even if they were killed off, it would STILL be a longer shelf life than Apps that were dumped with Android 1.x, 2.x, etc. (There are Android Apps that were dumped in less than six months of time between version updates.)

So your insightful point is what actually? Stop developing WP7 Apps because they will stop working in 10 years? Really?

thenetavenger said,

Yet the 'dead' platform Apps will still be running for years.

Even if they were killed off, it would STILL be a longer shelf life than Apps that were dumped with Android 1.x, 2.x, etc. (There are Android Apps that were dumped in less than six months of time between version updates.)

So your insightful point is what actually? Stop developing WP7 Apps because they will stop working in 10 years? Really?

No needs to check the neighbor backyard, check your own one: WM 6.XX and all its apps is dead, exactly as WP7 will be in one year or less.

They didn't back track... They simply couldn't dig through and prioritize a disorganized "catch all" suggestion discussion... lol

This was more a failure on the part of the community than anything. Microsoft probably thought they would get responses from people that understood a bit better what could go into this release and instead got a gazillian posts from fanboys wanting the moon...

NO. Just NO.

This is completely out of context!

A voting system was set up to vote on features for Windows Phone and a link was circulated to someone's generic vote for "more features for Windows Phone 7.8" and then everyone who replied seriously expected that all their suggestions would make it.

NO. That is not the point of a Voting system. The point is that you list each suggestion as a SEPARATE entry, and then everyone else VOTES on the ideas they like, and the ones with the most votes get more consideration.

This is how Uservoice works as well as Votebox works on Dropbox. The Microsoft moderation was just trying to explain how voting works in the context of a voting system.

Please. Do some fact checking. For the love of god, please. This article is just so completely wrong that it should be pulled.

Voting System:
http://windowsphone.uservoice..../101801-feature-suggestions

Particular suggestion taken out of context:
http://windowsphone.uservoice....-windows-phone-7-8-features-

How can everyone make individual vote suggestions if they are all just comments to the same master generic "MORE WINDOWS PHONE 7.8 FEATURES!!" suggestion??

Edited by Simon-, Sep 13 2012, 12:56pm :

Simon- said,
NO. Just NO.

This is completely out of context!

A voting system was set up to vote on features for Windows Phone and a link was circulated to someone's generic vote for "more features for Windows Phone 7.8" and then everyone who replied seriously expected that all their suggestions would make it.

NO. That is not the point of a Voting system. The point is that you list each suggestion as a SEPARATE entry, and then everyone else VOTES on the ideas they like, and the ones with the most votes get more consideration.

This is how Votebox works on Dropbox. The Microsoft moderation was just trying to explain how voting works in the context of a voting system.

Please. Do some fact checking. For the love of god, please.

Did you even read the article? They specifically asked for Windows Phone 7.8 suggestions earlier ("[we would] like to know SPECIFICALLY what features you would like to see on 7.8") in the week and now they are saying "This forum is intended to seek suggestions on future product features but it is not set up to take requests for specific product versions."

They also mentioned listing separate entities alongside saying they don't take requests for specific product versions

Edited by Scorpus, Sep 13 2012, 12:18pm :

No they did NOT. NEOWIN did.

http://www.neowin.net/news/mic...nt-most-in-windows-phone-78

They said this:
"[we] would like to know SPECIFICALLY what features you would like to see on 7.8 and vote INDIVIDUALLY for the one that you want most (vs. one large grab bag of features).”"

They are explaining to use the voting system properly. Put SPECIFIC features as a SPECIFIC voting item, not as comments to the one "MORE WP7.8 FEATURES" generic voting item. It's not hard to understand. It is Neowin causing headache for Microsoft by taking things out of context to create more headlines and advertising dollars.

Simon- said,
No they did NOT. NEOWIN ( http://www.neowin.net/news/mic...nt-most-in-windows-phone-78 ) did.

They said this:
"BUT we care deeply about our existing customers and would like to know SPECIFICALLY what features you would like to see on 7.8 and vote INDIVIDUALLY for the one that you want most (vs. one large grab bag of features).”"

They are explaining to use the voting system properly. Put SPECIFIC features as a SPECIFIC voting item, not as comments to the one "MORE WP7.8 FEATURES" generic voting item. It's not hard to understand. It is Neowin causing headache for Microsoft by taking things out of context to create more headlines and advertising dollars.

People took what they said to mean as "flood us with WP7.8 suggestions" and now they are saying "we don't take suggestions for specific WP versions, we prefer generic suggestions". They said that clearly in their statement, even if it was to tell people how to vote.

This article is still correct. They are not after Windows Phone 7.8-specific suggestions.

Scorpus said,

People took what they said to mean as "flood us with WP7.8 suggestions" and now they are saying "we don't take suggestions for specific WP versions, we prefer generic suggestions". They said that clearly in their statement, even if it was to tell people how to vote.

This article is still correct. They are not after Windows Phone 7.8-specific suggestions.

No, it's not. THEY NEVER ASKED TO BE FLOODED WITH 7.8-SPECIFIC SUGGESTIONS. This was a USER generated suggestion. Microsoft did not ask for this, they asked for INDIVIDUAL suggestions.

Simon- said,

No, it's not. THEY NEVER ASKED TO BE FLOODED WITH 7.8-SPECIFIC SUGGESTIONS. This was a USER generated suggestion. Microsoft did not ask for this, they asked for INDIVIDUAL suggestions.

They asked for individual suggestions as well as saying the voting system is not intended "for specific product versions". If they don't want "specific product version" suggestions then you can infer that they are not after WP7.8-specific suggestions. Did you actually read the quote from the MS rep? At all?

Scorpus said,

Did you even read the article? They specifically asked for Windows Phone 7.8 suggestions earlier ("[we would] like to know SPECIFICALLY what features you would like to see on 7.8") in the week and now they are saying "This forum is intended to seek suggestions on future product features but it is not set up to take requests for specific product versions."

They also mentioned listing separate entities alongside saying they don't take requests for specific product versions

Um, I have to agree, you are really searching for something here, do not understand, or are just intellectually dishonest.

You need to read you own pull-quote... And then reference the Windows Phone Member post...

what features you would like to see on 7.8 and vote INDIVIDUALLY for the one that you want most (vs. one large grab bag of features).

Has changed to...

This forum is intended to seek suggestions on future product features but it is not set up to take requests for specific product versions. We apologize for the confusion.

We would like to reinforce that for this forum to work optimally we would need users to create unique suggestions each with a single idea. This particular suggestion item has many varied ideas and because of that we aren't able to infer what is the most important to this forum. Please reallocate your votes to other suggestions that have a single idea.

So instead of JUST 7.8, they are open for suggestions to all versions, and to stop replicating ideas or lumping ideas together.

Which is just a REWORDING of the original statement.

However, you make it sound like Microsoft is IGNORING requests?

So which is it, do you NOT understand or are you just dishonest?

thenetavenger said,
So which is it, do you NOT understand or are you just dishonest?

Since it has been long enough to fix the article, I'm going to suggest Tim is just being purposely dishonest, and his original intent was to be dishonest with the readers.

Good Job Neowin...

How can a company as large as MS be so dumb with wording? Don't they have writers who do this for a living to ensure clarity?

seebaran said,
How can a company as large as MS be so dumb with wording? Don't they have writers who do this for a living to ensure clarity?

How can a reader be so dumb to not read the actual pullquote response?

but it is not set up to take requests for specific product versions.

They are asking that people submit one idea per post, and that it is not just for Windows Phone 7.8.

Surely it would have been better just to let everyone send their suggestions and then ignore them, as least we'd be expecting that.

JamesWeb said,
Surely it would have been better just to let everyone send their suggestions and then ignore them, as least we'd be expecting that.

They are still taking the suggestions. The clarification is that the earlier statement that limited it to 7.8 specific feedback was incorrect.

They intend to read the feedback and use it in product planning, but they can't promise it for any specific version.

Shane Nokes said,

They are still taking the suggestions. The clarification is that the earlier statement that limited it to 7.8 specific feedback was incorrect.

They intend to read the feedback and use it in product planning, but they can't promise it for any specific version.

I think it's more likely something like my post below honestly.

ahhell said,
So all of MS is at fault because one guy jumped the gun?
Ok.

Not to mention they didn't say they weren't listening, they just clarified that they are asking for suggestions all around, not just for 7.8.

Shane Nokes said,

Not to mention they didn't say they weren't listening, they just clarified that they are asking for suggestions all around, not just for 7.8.

Do you really think that MS is still debating what to include in WP 7.8? I really hope not or it will be released by the time WP9 is announced.