Microsoft: Using Vista Loophole Is Cheating

Microsoft is denying a recent report that suggests it deliberately included a technical loophole in Windows Vista that lets users install the OS without paying for the full priced version. In an article that appeared earlier this week in the Windows Secrets newsletter, reporter Scott Dunn noted that the Service Pack 1 version of Windows Vista gives users the option of buying the 'upgrade edition' and installing it on any PC, which enables them to avoid paying for the more expensive 'full' edition. In the U.S., the list price of the upgrade edition is more than $100 cheaper than the full edition, according to Dunn.

According to Dunn, the same option was available to users when Vista was first released, and Microsoft's failure to close this loophole in Vista SP1 suggests that the vendor "approved the back door as a way to make the price of Vista more appealing to sophisticated buyers." But a Microsoft spokesperson disputed the notion that the vendor supports users taking advantage of the technical loophole in Vista.

News Source: Information Week

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like... is the original purpose of being able to 'upgrade' from vista to vista was for like, when your hard disk dies or whatever you wouldnt have to reinstall xp or 2000 just to install vista again...like it might never have been like that and you end up with 100 bucks more, but then again i only go for the oem copies because my computer is 'new' all the time anyway... which is quite true by the way, seeing that i would probably be upgrading stuff at the same time as going to vista , just give the case a good wipe down before i put all the panels back on and it will be as good as 'refurbished'

(erpster3 said @ #17)
Ok guys. Check out this April 10 Windows Secrets article written by Brian Livingston and Scott Dunn:
http://www.windowssecrets.com/2008/04/10/0...ttles-the-cages

Now it's Ed Bott's turn to defend himself and his recent opinions about the Vista upgrade trick.


the article
People who are selling things find creative ways to make the price look like a good deal. It's clear that Microsoft has done nothing to remove the clean-upgrade path from Vista. And its continued existence in SP1 proves that the trick is a useful marketing tactic.

well , if i were to sound mundane, i would rephrase it : "And its continued existence in SP1 proves that the trick is perceived as a useful marketing tactic."
nothing about it being there proves wether or not its actually helping sales

Windows 7 is due out till 2010 , so ya it could be a rewrite of the kernel.http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/07/windows-7-still-slated-for-2010-says-microsoft-bill-gates-just/

Charging outrageous prices is Stealing. (proven by many courts already in Amercia in lawsuits ruling against Microsoft).

This reminds me of Office 2008 for Mac - the upgrade version is happy with the 'trial' 2004 version that ships with all Macs

Here's my scenario:

My daughter's eMachine running the Vista upgrade DOWNLOAD (legal purchase from Windows Marketplace) crashes. I replace the mobo -- so my copy of XP is no longer working on my new ASUS mobo as it's an OEM license. I install Vista using the trick because I can't install XP and upgrade again to Vista. I even had to find a way to make a boot DVD from the download because MS was too #$#@ cheap to make it a bootable ISO.

I'm tired of being screwed over by licensing and WGA crap. I won't even detail my 3 hour call to India because my son's activation apparently became "not genuine" after months of working fine.'

I want paid for my time!

I install Vista this way, my friends have installed Vista this way, and even some of our family members have done it too. I feel no remorse for it, and neither should anyone else. Sorry for being so crass, Microsoft, but if you don't like this routine, then maybe you should have added another paragraph to your license agreement and disabled the "feature" when Vista shipped.

Why would people want to install Vista if they say it sucks?

It doesn't suck. I run Vista and it works fine for me. Don't you know, if you flame anything from Microsoft, you're cool. That's the reason they say it sucks. Otherwise you're labeled a 'fanboy', and nobody wants that moniker.


Hmmmm. Not much of a choice you set for folks, is it?:

Either be a "poser", or be a "fanboi".

Which would YOU rather be?
In my opinion, it is better to be a "fanboi", than a "poser".

Why live for the praise of others, or for their acceptance? Are they gonna feed
you when you get hungry? Are they gonna provide a place for you to lay down your
head? Once they find someone "cooler than you", they will drop you like a hot
potato. Will they be at your bedside as you lay dying? No way...

Who do these "cool" people think they are, anyway?
Just more liars and hypocrites.

In my younger days, "cool" meant something very different than it does today.
If someone was "cool", he was trustworthy, loyal, and above all, true to himself and others.
That is why he was called "cool"; such a man was not moved by outward appearances,
but by inward principle.

He didn't follow the fashion of the moment, nor was he swept away by the crowd.
He was EVERYTHING our modern "cool kids" are not.

Donald L McDaniel

Probly because they only say vista sucks to sound cool, because "everyone else" does it.... to be honest, i think it makes them sound like idiots..... Its like these people are being beaten by an operating system.... Very sad So ya, people often say one thing and do another thing. Thats the beauty of hypocrasy :-p

(ispamforfood said @ #7.1)
Probly because they only say vista sucks to sound cool, because "everyone else" does it

I'm pretty sure they say it sucks because it does suck. Suck... is a relative term... it's disappointing. It's got issues. Vista is not what Windows users were looking for. They wanted something lean, stable, secure, and fast, something significantly better than XP, OS X or Linux. Instead they got a big, fat sack of **** that has gone back to square one where XP was six years ago--bugs, lack of drivers, bloat--without adding any significant benefits. There will ofcourse be some who cannot resist buying the latest thing solely because it's "new" but those people are the minority. They're the people who ran out and bought Vista without really considering it's pros and cons, and the future.

Why do you even defend Vista? Windows 7 beta is NEXT YEAR, Vista is dead already! If you think anything about Vista is going to change between now and then, you're very mistaken. Vista is Win ME II. It's an interim OS released because MS needed some extra $$$. MS will sell Vista now, and even force it on users through OEM preloads, and by 2010 it will replace it with Windows 7 and you will have to pay for that too.

I think the rest of us can hold out until then with XP. Vista is not worth the trouble.

(toadeater said @ #7.2)

I'm pretty sure they say it sucks because it does suck. Suck... is a relative term... it's disappointing. It's got issues. Vista is not what Windows users were looking for. They wanted something lean, stable, secure, and fast, something significantly better than XP, OS X or Linux. Instead they got a big, fat sack of **** that has gone back to square one where XP was six years ago--bugs, lack of drivers, bloat--without adding any significant benefits. There will ofcourse be some who cannot resist buying the latest thing solely because it's "new" but those people are the minority. They're the people who ran out and bought Vista without really considering it's pros and cons, and the future.

Why do you even defend Vista? Windows 7 beta is NEXT YEAR, Vista is dead already! If you think anything about Vista is going to change between now and then, you're very mistaken. Vista is Win ME II. It's an interim OS released because MS needed some extra $$$. MS will sell Vista now, and even force it on users through OEM preloads, and by 2010 it will replace it with Windows 7 and you will have to pay for that too.

I think the rest of us can hold out until then with XP. Vista is not worth the trouble.

u do realize that Windows 7 is pretty much gonna be Windows Vista R2, right? ;-)
It may be a full version # above vista, but it will still be Vista at its core. You think MS can manage a total Kernel rewrite in a year (which is when they say the next version of windows may be released)??? NO way... they're not going to ditch Vista, but they are going to hammer down all the rough edges that made vista so detestable to the vocal minority and made it sound like windows Me 2 to the gullible majority.

Face it man, Windows Vista is here to stay.

Why would anyone who wants to do a full install of Vista even buy the upgrade version? Just get the OEM version at around 100€ and no need for install trickery.

(ir0nw0lf said @ #6.1)
Well, DUH, not everyone in the universe knows that there are OEM versions out there...

Huh? And why would they know of the upgrade editions?

If I visit a random online store here that offer update editions, they have the OEM editions too.

You speak of those editions like they're some sort of secret/rare product, but they actually advertise them in the open.

Is this new anyway? I remember that Office 2000 premium upgrade (that monster cost like 400 dollar), when it asked you to insert a CD of a previous version of office, that same CD would work. I always installed it that way, although I did have office 95 somewhere.
So it's been happening for quite a long time!

this just proves MS should lower price of ALL editions by exactly 100 USD ... that would solve the issue with sales, piracy and unhappy customers about price from 90%

(Dwarden said @ #4)
this just proves MS should lower price of ALL editions by exactly 100 USD ... that would solve the issue with sales, piracy and unhappy customers about price from 90% :)

I agree there should be a major price cut.. but this will not stop pirating microsoft operating systems (better yet why would people pay for it if its on the net?), even if there was a price cut most people cant afford vista.

(Dwarden said @ #4)
this just proves MS should lower price of ALL editions by exactly 100 USD ... that would solve the issue with sales, piracy and unhappy customers about price from 90% :)


You're joking right? MS are one of the hugest proponents of software as a service: "Ten years out, in terms of actual hardware costs you can almost think of hardware as being free - I'm not saying it will be absolutely free - but in terms of the power of the servers, the power of the network will not be a limiting factor," - Bill Gates

Obviously they don't plan on any price cuts, and in fact will probably seek perpetual subscription fees as well as probably an initial OS cost. If they don't provide shareholders some guarantee of money coming in (plus the promise of more so that they can increase the value of their investment) then shareholders won't be interested in owning MS stock.

"most people cant afford vista."

Yes they can they just choose not to. Apparently, Microsoft programmers don't have children to feed, they all volunteer their time.

(C_Guy said @ #4.3)
"most people cant afford vista."

Yes they can they just choose not to. Apparently, Microsoft programmers don't have children to feed, they all volunteer their time.

Oh realy well maybe you'd like to move to new zealand and see how much the rest of the world pays to be shafted by M$
as of today price's for windoze vista home premium $401.59nzd and ultimate $870.00nzd or if you'd like to go the server os on a workstation Server 2008 $1097.00nzd so where you get off saying people just dont want to stump up the readies for a crap O.S i dont know about you but i dont get paid nearly enough a week for me to be able to afford to upgrade to a newer os so im patiently waiting for sp3 for winxp pro

Microsoft's EULA for Vista states: "To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that is eligible for the upgrade."

But by design, they've made the Vista Upgrade DVD one of the products that qualify and is eligible for the upgrade! So, to allow that, to design it that way, and then say that people who do it are breaking the EULA is kind of ridiculous. It's not like you have to hack some file or something. It's designed that way by Microsoft!

One of the drawbacks of having the most widely used operating system is that virtually anybody possesses a valid license of a previous edition of windows. If you are upgrading a computer that came with XP OEM installed then you already have a license, and you can do a clean install if you wish. If you are installing it on a new computer, chances are that you are eligible to purchase the OEM version of the thing which is even cheaper.

From the Article:

The licensing states that upgrades require a fully licensed version of Windows to be eligible to use an Upgrade license," the spokesperson said in an email to ChannelWeb.

That's true, but everyone knows (at least, a lot of people) that you can use the actual Vista Upgrade DVD as one of the eligible installations to upgrade! Paul Thurrott on his WinSite showed how this could be done. Really, Microsoft did this to themselves by not allowing a Vista Upgrade DVD to be installed cleanly and activated as/is, once someone proves they had an older disc of Windows XP (like in the old days).

So, if the loophole isn't fixed with SP1, even though Microsoft knows that it exists, they must not really [i]have a problem with it.

There is no such thing as a "Vista upgrade DVD", all Vista DVDs are the same regardless of what is printed on them. There is only one difference, 32-bit and 64-bit. What bits to install and how you install them are dictated by the license key not the media itself.

Also there is another "loop hole" that allows you to do a clean install with an upgrade license and the 64-bit editions do a clean install regardless of your license key type (full/upgrade).

Anyway back to the topic, I don't know why people are complaining! people complain Vista costs way too much for what you get and then they find out there is a way to get it cheaper and what they do? complain! *arg!*