Microsoft wants to lead PC gaming revolution

Having received much criticism over its lack of support for the PC and the Games for Windows Live service, Microsoft Games Studios' Dave Luehmann is now saying that the company should be putting more resources into the platform. Speaking in an interview with MCV, the General Manager said that it's Microsoft's responsibility to "lead the way" when it comes to PC gaming.

"There's been a fair bit of criticism aimed at Microsoft that we were spending a lot of our focus on console, and we need to be putting resources behind PC as well. Other companies should look to Microsoft for leadership, but I'm not sure they do. It is our job to lead the way on PC. And in some ways we are doing that and in other ways we are not. So we need to step up."

Microsoft plans to invest in the PC by bringing three large intellectual properties to the platform. Fable III, Age of Empires Online and Microsoft Flight will all use Games for Windows Live service, the PC equivalent of Xbox Live. However, Luehmann says the company isn't going to stop there. "I think it is the responsibility of first parties to push the business models in to new directions. We will test some ideas - some will work and some won't."

Luehmann's comments come only a week after another Microsoft employee stated that "hardly anyone" plays first-person shooters on the PC today, with console-only titles such as Halo: Reach.

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I never really understood why Microsoft entered the console wars , when they could have already had consoles beaten.

Desktop computers and many laptops on the market which are 90% Windows with DirectX is already the BEST gaming platform on the market. If MSFT had exploited it properly, there wouldnt be a need for a console.

Computers even with integrated or discreet solutions, will burn ANY console on the market. Including Microsoft's own Xbox 360. Today's GPU are 10x's better than those found in consoles. Games could easily be bigger as today's PC has far more storage capability vs consoles. PC's have equal or better sound capability. PC games can work cross-platform with consoles too.

Any of the games any dev makes for a console would work equal or BETTER on a PC. Here is the problem. In order for one platform to thrive, another has to be abandoned. When Microsoft first promised Windows Gaming, they promised the Windows desktop would be superior to consoles. Instead of developing games, some internal has-been decided MSFT should make a whole new gaming platform. if MSFT would have exploited the desktop, they wouldn't be takinh a hit on cost with Xbox. All MSFT would have had to concentarte on is making games/software titles for the PC and it would have been all profit with no overhead.

You need a frikkin Xbox. MSFT could have easily used Windows XP/Vista/7 and made a Xbox 360 software that could have ran as a Virtual Machine type application that used it own DVD's for games. In otherwords, Xbox 360 running inside Windows.

We got screwed. What is the point of directX 10 or 11 when we don't have desktop games to use it potential. As may as well be non-existant.

What I want out of GFWL is a Steam-like system (w/ great deals on older games, specials on holidays, free demos/weekends for different games, easy to download, etc) with integrated voice chat (with the features/power of Ventrilo), support for file transfer/organizing buddy lists, and customizable themes/skins. Add the ability for developers to create plugins/addons and you have a winner (just think if they had AIM/Yahoo/MSN protocol support through plugins).

Yes. Hurry up and put more money into more twitch games. Yay, twitch games. Hey look, another twitch game! Is that a twitch game? It's a twitch game.

I haven't been much of a gamer for years now, having grown up liking turn-based RPGs and point-and-click adventures. Both of those genres self-destructed during the great OMG3DROXX0rZ transition of the past 10 years, and the big studios don't even seem to realize it. They spent years 'adapting' the genres to what they were convinced were the new trends, were stunned that their new releases didn't sell as well as the old, and instead of thinking their changes weren't for the better, they somehow concluded gamers just *weren't interested* in the genres anymore.

Shooter games are tired. Strategy games are zzzzz... And puzzle games are for wasting time in a cubicle, not advancing an industry.

Wake me up when we have another Journeyman Project, Longest Journey, or even a solid city-building game (I'm curious about Cities XL, but the mixed reviews have me cautious).

Lovin' the remasterings of Monkey Island games, but eager for NEW content in the adventure genre that isn't obsessed with Thief-like gameplay. How did a genre that had zero combat for years and years suddenly make it mandatory anyway?


/and how did P&C get reduced to these disgusting Nancy Drew find-the-item crapfests?

Yeah of course. It's on my Dosbox. Right next to Epic Pinball, Raptor, and One Must Fall: 2097.

/the P&C stuff is all under Scumm, natch

Oh for the love of---

There is nothing wrong with the PC platform. The only reason PC gaming has tanked so badly is because the gaming studios that made it great aren't around anymore. If you want to revolutionalize the PC gaming industry hire better game designers that focus on a good STORY. There's no more room for the cookie-cutter FPS crap that's been shoved down our throats.

Don't let your investment in Lionhead go to waste.

Probably just promoting the new DirectX or Live! for PC or their game store app or something, I seriously doubt that they will lead a revolution with Fable III, Flight Sim, and AoE

Want to lead a revolution Microsoft? Lead a revolution to end the practice of ****ty console to pc ports. Look to Halo 2 for a prime example of what not to do.

anyone remember the great games ms owned studios used to make back in teh day? age of empires franchise, freelancer? RON? and so on? ofc they've killed the world servers for all of these games so even if you happen to own them and want to still play them online, you are screwed. these games were very high quality and fun to play, and had immense replay value.
if ms can go back to those days and start making great games again, but also support them in long run, and instead of pushing their ****ty gfwl service, or at least make it work properly and seemlessly, instead of having zero days bugs that break collectors edition DLCs and cause gamers to have to manually log into to 2 or more services everytime they want to play their games online or use those DLCs or reinstall those games and so on, they might have a leading role in the future of PC gaming.
PC gamers don't want XBL on their desktop. we already have steam which is much better as far as gaming goes, and does everything we might want that XBL does, but better, for both us as consumers and gamers, and for dev's both large and small. and for non gaming services such as netflix and youtube that xbl has, we already have that natively on our computers without a yearly sub just for xbl gold.
some might say that steam had issues when it first started up, but gfwl isn't competing with steam of 2004, it's competing with steam of 2010, a service that eclipses total numbers of xbox360, and in particular xbl gold subs, with total users that have bought games both on the service itself and in stores that integrate steamworks functionality for both DRM and things like friends lists and achievements and so on.
releasing new installments of old franchises such as flight sim, fable and aoe is a start, but MS has a lot more work to do if they want to get back to where they left off in teh PC game industry, and regain our trusts and dollars. and that doesn't include making more ****ty ports of halo games years later that run poorly on high end hardware, have weak patch cycles and online support is cut fairly quickly.
ms can start with bring out freelancer 2, new IPs, embracing steam and direct2drive, scrapping gfwl entirely as a pc version of xbl or DLC DRM protocol, keeping world servers for their games open for more than 2-5 years, releasing SDKs for their games to the mod community to add replayability to their games, and utilizing win vista and 7 fully, including hardware that supports their APIs like dx10 and 11, while optimizing their games to also be playable on lower end and older systems.
MS has the money and resources to be a leader int eh pc games industry again if they put the effort and time into it and don't do it half assed and ****poor like they have done over the last few years.
they also need to have a meeting about what their talking heads are spewing out in relation to games like fps genre being dead on the PC and so forth, within weeks of saying they want to lead a pc gaming revolution. and makea clear and conise internal strategy for supporting games on both the windows platform and their xbox platforms, instead of having an internal struggle between departments that results in consumer confusion and ultimately frustration.

What is with using that picture again? Seems to be mockery to me.

If MS is really serious they need to help show developers easier ways to create native titles so we don't keep getting crappy back-ports.

Microsoft have for a long time neglected the PC as a major gaming platform even though better GFX cards and huge monitors are bought by PC owners, its really important that they continue to keep the PC platform at the forefront of gaming, we want to see games that use the latest and greatest GFX tech, at the moment so many games are awful ports of console games with dodgy textures and lame AI. The Games for Windows Client should just be renamed XBOX live and give PC users the same abilities to interact, hell it could even provide a front end exactly the same as the Xbox 360. Its sad to see that even today a game like Crysis is still one of the only games to really push a PC, promoting the use and benefits of using/subscribing to the Games for Windows client should be a no brainer, easy interaction with other gamers online and of course MS could even use it to clamp down of game theft/tampering etc. At the moment having a super GFX card on a desktop PC is becoming a waste of time, when are we going to see the games use all the resources available. Yes Microsoft, you have to step up your game!

The potential for a "PC gaming revolution" is there, but I don't think Microsoft should be leading it. All they're doing is bringing back old series like Fable, Age of Empires and Microsoft Flight. What they should be doing is introducing titles like Alan Wake (which was originally planned to be a PC exclusive), Gears of War 2 (and possible 3), Halo 3, and many more.

They should also be advertising Windows 7 as the operating system to have for gaming. Also, a Games for Windows Live revamp would really get the ball rolling.

For them to pave the way for anything, I want to see cross-platform multiplayer action. That's the only thing I can think of that they will be doing anything that benefits us gamers. Good luck with that by the way. Seriously, good luck because I want it.

I miss games like Quake 2 and Quake 3. Everything seems so overcomplicated now, not only with graphics but also with gameplay. These days developers are trying so hard to innovate that they tend to focus away from the main goal of a game: the fun... it's really sad.

I've been saying this for years...Indie Games for GFWL...then let people have one game on all platforms. PC, Phone, and Xbox. Have a marketplace for it...it's really that simple. App stores are the new "thing" and it would be smart to do it for GFWL...but oh well. My real dream though is let people have the ability to buy the game on one platform and have it available for them to play on all three platforms for one price (up to the discretion of the developer). 1 app to rule them all. lol. One day my dream will come true.

I knew when they came out with their own console that their PC titles would suffer. Sure enough, no Midtown Madness 3 for the PC, and the console exclusives continued. At this point Microsoft can go jump in a burning pit of fire as far as gaming is concerned.

oh, MS really need to do something about the mess of setting real refresh rates for opengl or d3d games, I couldn't believe after all the posts all over the place for people having problems setting refresh rates in Vista, after not having problems in winXP, that it was if anything , made HARDER in win7 not easier.
I'm talking setting 120hz for those that can, and want to, not just greater than 60hz that it so often defaults to.

Valve beat them to it. And it's not like it's only been since the Xbox 360 that Microsoft has mistreated PC gaming. For a company that runs the OS that has been pretty much the only choice for PC gaming for the longest time, they sure didn't do a whole lot to integrate gaming into their OS in the significant ways they should have.

Remember when Longhorn was supposed to ship with a dedicated gaming mode? That might not have been the best way to handle things (after all, you want to be able to run software in the background while you game), but it could have been a step in the right direction.

There's the games browser, which may or may not detect my games and possibly download information about them. There's no mandated icon format or anything to make it look presentable. The best solution for adding games to the thing yourself is third-party software that also isn't perfect.

They haven't taken steps towards unifying where game saves should be placed. It could be in Documents (a major headache if you actually want to use the documents folder for... documents), it could be in the Saved Games folder at the root of the user folder (but it never is), it could be in local or roaming appdata, or it could be in the program install directory itself.

The GFWL interface doesn't integrate into the operating system. Support has been terrible enough to have developers/publishers drop the system in favor of Steamworks support. About the only thing they have going for them there is the achievement system, because people are so attached to that number system and gamerscore, and I have to agree as arbitrary as the system is, it's nice to have an overall score.

To put my opinion succinctly, Microsoft has shown they don't know how to do it right, and I don't trust them when they say they want to try. Too little, too late.

They've said this before, yet they never seem to actually do anything. GFWL is a half-hearted attempt, and Xbox and WP7 get all the love while the PC gamers are left in the cold. If it wasn't for Steam PC gaming probably would be dead...

fable II was never released for the pc right?
how can you skip an entire game, and release the third without the second?!

i will never play the third properly untill i finish the second, and with that just not being on the pc, i cant!

daiv_ said,
fable II was never released for the pc right?
how can you skip an entire game, and release the third without the second?!

i will never play the third properly untill i finish the second, and with that just not being on the pc, i cant!


Don't worry, you aren't missing much lol. Fable II was quite a disappointment imo.

ccoltmanm said,
Microsoft should by Steam and incorporate it in windows 8.
why so they can screw it up like they did their entire pc games division?

Alan wake should of been on the pc, would of been great to add with crisis. But pc gaming would go well with the campaign of windows 7 ( which is still running strong on tv and internet ).

Valve beat you to it. Also, you dropped the ball when you turned your backs on Games for Windows Live. I also suggest to get a group of people together that actually game, know a few things about gaming and can keep up with the trends. As of right now, when I think of Microsoft's gaming division, I think of old people in young people's clothes trying to act cool.

burnsflipper said,
bringing Alan Wake to pc as was originally intended would be a good start.
Exactly. MS have probably done more harm to PC gaming over the last few years with their xbox-centric take on everything. Look at the amount of PC games coming out that are half-baked xbox ports with flaky controls, FPS caps and other consolitis. That's what MS have given gamers lately.

protocol7 said,
Look at the amount of PC games coming out that are half-baked xbox ports with flaky controls, FPS caps and other consolitis. That's what MS have given gamers lately.
Not really. Those ports are the fault of other publishers. MS's pretty much turned a blind eye completely so we didn't even get their games, flaky controls and all.

Smigit said,
Not really. Those ports are the fault of other publishers. MS's pretty much turned a blind eye completely so we didn't even get their games, flaky controls and all.
I disagree. They purposely harmed PC gaming. Alan Wake was intended to be a PC exclusive but Microsoft came in and made it an Xbox exclusive. As much as I hate to say this, the Xbox platform is a higher priority for Microsoft. Why? That's where the money is at. Oh, and control too.

burnsflipper said,
bringing Alan Wake to pc as was originally intended would be a good start.

This.

Until this and other ports happen this initiative is all smoke and mirrors.

burnsflipper said,
bringing Alan Wake to pc as was originally intended would be a good start.
Yep, Alan Wake is not an FPS and therefore it must be perfect for PC by MS's logic

Lead PC gaming, eh? Maybe they can start by sorting out GFWL (i.e. killing it) and then by maybe reigning in people like the guy who claims "nobody plays FPS on the PC" and stopping them from instigating rubbish platform vs platform flamewars.

Maybe then people would take them seriously.

Although to be honest, I think if MS wants to lead PC gaming - they need to urgently consolidate and fix what little they have before setting their sights on PC gaming as a whole.

There is examples out there on how to do it right, MS should have lots of notes and ideas. The community feedback should be staring them in the face too.

I've got the feeling Xbox Live for Windows will be the rebrand, like Xbox Live for Windows Phone 7. They need to scrap Games for Windows Live, start fresh and do it right with a new brand and client for the Windows platform. I doubt we will see anything until next year though. I guess they will want it out before a few big game releases.

Hmm come to think about it, Fallout 3 (ever heard of it? ) used Games for Windows Live...now guess what they're using for Fallout: New Vegas...something Steamy baby!

I believe they do, as I don't see Apple doing anything about gaming any time soon (Jobs no like it). Unless we get next year... Steve - "This is my new revolutionary idea!, a game on a mac ... The best thing since sliced bread!"

I wouldn't be surprised if Jobs sees iOS as the companies mainstream computing future in which case gaming is pretty well supported.

Smigit said,
I wouldn't be surprised if Jobs sees iOS as the companies mainstream computing future in which case gaming is pretty well supported.

gaming on a phone or an ipod is like gaming in facebook.

If MS really wants to do PC gaming a favor then they will start to support Steam and drop the crap that is Games for Windows Live

LaP said,
If MS really wants to do PC gaming a favor then they will start to support Steam and drop the crap that is Games for Windows Live
See above ^.^

Steam doesn't need MS's support. It'd be far better for the market for MS to innovate with their own solution as competition will help the market far more than just backing Steam would.

Smigit said,
Steam doesn't need MS's support. It'd be far better for the market for MS to innovate with their own solution as competition will help the market far more than just backing Steam would.

there is competition for steam that does well for themselves overall. MS tacking on a 3rd layer of online DRM that fails in pretty much every way is not healthy for the market, nor does it compete.
t's like saying ubisoft's ridiculous DRM that pauses your singleplayer game everytime you get lag to their DRM servers is good for the market.

There is more to gaming than First Person Shooters! Saying hardly anyone plays FPS games on PC is one thing, but does not mean hardly anyone plays games on the PC.

martinDTanderson said,
There is more to gaming than First Person Shooters! Saying hardly anyone plays FPS games on PC is one thing, but does not mean hardly anyone plays games on the PC.

Ya, I don't think that's what he meant anyways. The thing is the PC is now more or less home to MMOs, RTS's and so on. Of course people still play FPS on the PC, I do, but I'm sure if you break down the sales numbers for a big hit FPS game you'll see way more on the console than on the PC (of course that doesn't take pirating into account but w/e).

martinDTanderson said,
There is more to gaming than First Person Shooters! Saying hardly anyone plays FPS games on PC is one thing, but does not mean hardly anyone plays games on the PC.
Strategy is where it's at

Consoles just don't do strategy games well... Halo Wars showed us that. Would have loved for that to be a PC game.

Didn't Microsoft say they wouldn't do cross-platform (PC vs Xbox360) online games because PC gamers kept destroying console gamers?
Then Microsoft's Kudo Tsunoda (dude who always wears sunglasses...) said "Hardly anyone plays first person shooters on the PC anymore. It's all about the console."
I'm so confused as to what they're motives are...
I don't see myself caring about GFWL anytime soon.

Auroka said,
Didn't Microsoft say they wouldn't do cross-platform (PC vs Xbox360) online games because PC gamers kept destroying console gamers?

I've heard from reliable sources that during the development they brought together the best console gamers to play mediocre PC gamers at the same game… and guess what happened? They pitted console gamers with their “console” controller, against PC gamers with their keyboard and mouse.

The console players got destroyed every time. So much so that it would be embarrassing to the XBOX team in general had Microsoft launched this initiative.
http://www.geek.com/articles/g...-crossover-gaming-20100722/

it seems like ms needs to have some kind of meeting with it's mouth pieces and outline a coherent PR strategy when it comes to it's various games related divisions.
and if console players could play against pc gamers in fps games(or any other genre really) they wouldn't be able to talk about how 1337 they are or how much skill they have and console based leagues would die over night, and console gamers who truly want to feel skilled would migrate back to the PC and god forbid that happens as it would take sales away from teh 360 ecosphere.

Auroka said,
Didn't Microsoft say they wouldn't do cross-platform (PC vs Xbox360) online games because PC gamers kept destroying console gamers?
Then Microsoft's Kudo Tsunoda (dude who always wears sunglasses...) said "Hardly anyone plays first person shooters on the PC anymore. It's all about the console."
I'm so confused as to what they're motives are...


err what I play FPS on PC all the time and so do most of my friends aswell we love nothing better than hauling our rigs round to each others place for a day or so of lan fraggin
I don't see myself caring about GFWL anytime soon.

How is this a good thing?? I'm tired of using online services to play a game. I'm not a fan of digital downloads either and agree with MadDoggyca, I enjoyed it more when I purchased a disk with a CD-key to play then after I'm done I could sell it off to regain some sort of funds for the next purchase...but they don't want that!! They want everyone to buy a full copy of the game themselves. Same goes with this ranked/unranked stats servers and tracking crap!! I'm tired of seeing game makers kill off teamplay and the fun of the game by incorporating this type of junk into them. Look what happened to BF2 as it killed any chance for the mods to really take off cause players had to have that "Stat Fix". Desert Combat for BF1942 was and still better than BF2 will ever be.

sava700 said,
How is this a good thing?? I'm tired of using online services to play a game. I'm not a fan of digital downloads either and agree with MadDoggyca, I enjoyed it more when I purchased a disk with a CD-key to play then after I'm done I could sell it off to regain some sort of funds for the next purchase...but they don't want that!! They want everyone to buy a full copy of the game themselves. Same goes with this ranked/unranked stats servers and tracking crap!! I'm tired of seeing game makers kill off teamplay and the fun of the game by incorporating this type of junk into them. Look what happened to BF2 as it killed any chance for the mods to really take off cause players had to have that "Stat Fix". Desert Combat for BF1942 was and still better than BF2 will ever be.

i agree with some of your post such as about ranks and desert combat being better than bf2(by light years).
but i for one am glad i no longer have to swap discs out of my optical drive every time i want to load up a different game, or hope my no cd hack will work with new patches or not be detected as a cheat when i go online, for games i legitimately paid for and have a uniqiue cd key.
i have decent internet so games download faster from steam on demand than the installed from multiple cd's even 5 years ago(although dvd install from my sata optical drive is pretty fast and less annoying these days) and stay up to date so i don't have to keep up to date on patches on all of my games, and i can see whenever any of my friends are online and in game and jump right into the action with them easily.

Fulfil your promises of making a fully functional Live client for Windows including friends list, achievement viewing, messaging and of course gaming and we might just take you seriously. Instead, all you have currently is a games for windows live client that is nothing more than a storefront for games and add-ons with a picture of your avatar at the top.

TCLN Ryster said,
Fulfil your promises of making a fully functional Live client for Windows including friends list, achievement viewing, messaging and of course gaming and we might just take you seriously. Instead, all you have currently is a games for windows live client that is nothing more than a storefront for games and add-ons with a picture of your avatar at the top.

They made promices of making a fully functional live client for windows/friends/achivements/messaging? Fail ^.^ Steam has this pinned down.


Was anyone as disapointed as I was when they released Games For Windows Live on Demand? Pretty much the same client, same blank store page etc with games added

TCLN Ryster said,
Fulfil your promises of making a fully functional Live client for Windows including friends list, achievement viewing, messaging and of course gaming and we might just take you seriously. Instead, all you have currently is a games for windows live client that is nothing more than a storefront for games and add-ons with a picture of your avatar at the top.

Most of the things you mentioned are done in the game, as opposed to the client itself.

Sky Black said,

windows/friends/achivements/messaging? Fail ^.^ Steam has this pinned down.

From whatb i read GFWL client 3.0 is ment to be a major re-work of the current client.

Lets not forget how long it took steam to get their act together?

brent3000 said,

From whatb i read GFWL client 3.0 is ment to be a major re-work of the current client.

Lets not forget how long it took steam to get their act together?


The GFWL client is already at version 3.3

brent3000 said,

From whatb i read GFWL client 3.0 is ment to be a major re-work of the current client.

Lets not forget how long it took steam to get their act together?


like the old new mmo vs wow debate, this isn;'t 2004 and steam has had it's act together for years now.
if gfwl wants to be veiwed as something good it has to compete against steam as it is right now, not as it was at launch, although at launch despite some broken functionality on teh friends list and no achievements, it still worked a hell of a lot better than gfwl works currently.

PC gaming could be their bread and butter if they decide to make the proper investments and create excellent PC games. After all there are a lot of benefits if they decide to support pc gaming such as promotion for their windows 7 operating systems platform and a huge market for gamers. I m a PC gamer and as of right now I have very little interest in Microsoft PC games they are releasing now because many of the games they release have little replay value, attention to detail, entertaining gameplay, decent storyline, diverse gameplay, innovative gameplay, and the GFWL service is pretty horrible.

I don't know how the rest of you guys view Games For Windows Live but I'll be unhappy if I find more games using it.

If Microsoft want to lead the PC gaming revolution they should partner up with Steam all the way. Valve have probably done more for the gaming industry recently than Microsoft. Just look at Modern Warfare 2 and Civilization 5 partnering with them.

I'm aware many feel the same way about Steam as they do GFWL =]

I agree, I would love to see some of the IPs that MGS has locked up come to PC, but I have no interest in giving Microsoft more power over PC gaming, and that's all they are after. They want all PC games to have their logo on them and use their online service so they can collect their cut on DLC and downloadable games.

Sky Black said,
I don't know how the rest of you guys view Games For Windows Live but I'll be unhappy if I find more games using it.

If Microsoft want to lead the PC gaming revolution they should partner up with Steam all the way. Valve have probably done more for the gaming industry recently than Microsoft. Just look at Modern Warfare 2 and Civilization 5 partnering with them.

I'm aware many feel the same way about Steam as they do GFWL =]

I was going to say the same thing, work with Valve and Steam it already has a lot of respect in the marketplace and is the best DRM implementation i have used.

Kitty Karloso said,
I agree, I would love to see some of the IPs that MGS has locked up come to PC, but I have no interest in giving Microsoft more power over PC gaming, and that's all they are after. They want all PC games to have their logo on them and use their online service so they can collect their cut on DLC and downloadable games.

As apposed to Valve wanting their cut through steam on consoles? If it wasn't for MS PC gaming wouldn't be where it is today, or the PC industry in general.

REM2000 said,

I was going to say the same thing, work with Valve and Steam it already has a lot of respect in the marketplace and is the best DRM implementation i have used.

So wait, the ONLY thing MS has done for PC gaming is GoWL? Seriously?

Valve doesn't wanna work with anyone you know, they don't have a reason to.

GP007 said,

As apposed to Valve wanting their cut through steam on consoles? If it wasn't for MS PC gaming wouldn't be where it is today, or the PC industry in general.


Steamworks is available a la carte, GFW isn't. Get the facts for once before posting.

Kitty Karloso said,

Steamworks is available a la carte, GFW isn't. Get the facts for once before posting.

Like GP007 said, GFW isn't the only thing MS has done for PC gaming...

/- Razorfold said,

Like GP007 said, GFW isn't the only thing MS has done for PC gaming...

Yes they've also provided us with such wonders as a Windows exclusive 3D API that they rarely backport to support older versions of Windows, games artificially restricted to operating systems, and delaying a game so they can launch it with tray and play a technology so mediocre not a single game has used it since.

Kitty Karloso said,

Yes they've also provided us with such wonders as a Windows exclusive 3D API that they rarely backport to support older versions of Windows, games artificially restricted to operating systems, and delaying a game so they can launch it with tray and play a technology so mediocre not a single game has used it since.

Excuse me? If you mean DirectX, most games use it.

If you mean Directx10 or 11 there are a lot of games that make use of it.

It's not a problem of developer's not using it, it's a problem that it's only available on Microsoft's OS and only more recent versions at that. XP is still the most used windows variant but only OpenGL is available on it at the latest version.

Kitty Karloso said,
It's not a problem of developer's not using it, it's a problem that it's only available on Microsoft's OS and only more recent versions at that. XP is still the most used windows variant but only OpenGL is available on it at the latest version.

And why should MS support newer technologies on an OS that is 2 generations old? And also, why can't MS code a technology that is only available on their OS?

It's not like MS is forcing devs to use DirectX, if they wanted to use OpenGL they can. But very few devs use it, for w/e reason that may be. At one point of time OpenGL was better than DX, but recently DX is taking that crown and pushing forward. Not to mention 90% of the worlds computers running on Windows and I'm willing to bet 90% of games available for those computers use DirectX. So its not like nobody uses it.

That all sounds great for Microsoft but I fail to see how any of that is good for gamers. Your argument is that MS has done more than just GFWL for Gaming but haven't provided any examples.

Not used much but Shadowrun allowed PC gamers and 360 Gamers to play together across one game. I think thats a good future

Dedicated server hosting on PC's for 360 games

Kitty Karloso said,
That all sounds great for Microsoft but I fail to see how any of that is good for gamers. Your argument is that MS has done more than just GFWL for Gaming but haven't provided any examples.

DirectX was a perfect example. Just because you are crying about how they only make it available for about 90% of the computer market doesn't remove it as an example. If you don't want to upgrade to a better os like windows 7 from windows xp then that's fine you don't have to be able to run directx 10 or 11 it's your call. Microsoft shouldn't have to keep supporting an os that is 2 generations old.
Microsoft also has created the platform that most pc gaming is run off of. Without windows most people would probably be using a really locked down platform that apple has in its firm grasp.

brent3000 said,
Not used much but Shadowrun allowed PC gamers and 360 Gamers to play together across one game. I think thats a good future

Dedicated server hosting on PC's for 360 games

Thats actually a horrible idea. For most games that require dedicated server hosting, PC controls are better, so much so that it has been tested and proven that PC users in such a scenario will generally dominate console users (its not because PC gamers are better, but the controls are better).

The only way to fix that, would be to force (or at the very least allow) keyboard and mouse controls on the console version of the game, OR limit the PC users in such a way that the controls do not offer any advantage.

I can understand hosting dedicated servers for console players from a PC, but NOT putting PC and consolers together in the same arena until the control issue is solved.

EDIT: Here we go (link found in a later comment): http://www.rahulsood.com/2010/...-get-killed-against-pc.html

Sky Black said,
I don't know how the rest of you guys view Games For Windows Live but I'll be unhappy if I find more games using it.

If Microsoft want to lead the PC gaming revolution they should partner up with Steam all the way. Valve have probably done more for the gaming industry recently than Microsoft. Just look at Modern Warfare 2 and Civilization 5 partnering with them.

I'm aware many feel the same way about Steam as they do GFWL =]


+1 steam is what gfwl tries hard to be and fails miserably.
ms has done a lot of good for PC gaming overall with DX for example and other improvements to windows over the years that has helped pc gaming, but ms needs to take a step back on gfwl that will never be on the same level as xbla, as if pc gamers want anything resembling that in the first place, steam is better for gaming itself(we can get non gaming services xbla offers natively on our pc's anyway)

treemonster said,
ms has done a lot of good for PC gaming overall with DX for example and other improvements to windows over the years that has helped pc gaming

Everyone keeps saying that, but I strongly disagree. What improvements or features have they come up with that no one else could have?

Had Linux, Mac or any other operating system been dominant in Window's place I do not see it as being very likely a Direct X equivalent would fail to exist. Might even be an open source equivalent, which would be interesting if backed by large corporations.

That would make releasing games for multiple operating systems a lot easier too.

Beastage said,
how about Gears of War 2 and 3 for PC and halo 3?

Yeah! That would definitely help the PC. Bringing IPs like Age of Empires and Microsoft Flight isn't anything special because they were already PC IPs.

Beastage said,
how about Gears of War 2 and 3 for PC and halo 3?

Epic already said they won't release Gears of War 2 on PC, I think the original got pirated to the point that they didn't make much money off of it.

Pc_Madness said,
Epic already said they won't release Gears of War 2 on PC, I think the original got pirated to the point that they didn't make much money off of it.

That's a nice way of saying Gears of War sucked on the PC. It was an INCREDIBLY poorly done console-port. I bought it and it was honestly one of the worst games I've played in quite some time.

Blaming it on piracy is BS.