Microsoft's faced with opposition in Korea over Nokia acquisition

Following Microsoft's acquisition of Nokia late last year, many companies and organizations have raised objections to the deal - including Samsung and Google, who expressed their concerns to the Chinese government over what they believe to be the potential for "patent abuse" by Microsoft. 

Further organizations are also raising their objections, including a few major players in Korea. According to reports, the Korea Electronics Association - an organization established by the government of South Korea to promote the IT and electronics industry - has submitted a petition to the FCC requesting that they provide oversight for the merger because of potential patent rights abuse that Microsoft may use to keep local manufacturers in check.

The Korean Electronics Association (or KEA) is headed by several major leaders in the electronics industry, including Samsung CEO Kwon Oh-Hyun, LG president Yeong Ha Lee, and NXP Semiconductors Korea chairman Shin Bark-jae. These leaders represent a driving force in Korea's electronics industry, and as such their objections may be handled with care by the FCC.

 KEA lawyer Hwang Eun-jeong provided a statement on the issue, saying: 

As a mobile phone maker, Nokia rarely exercised its patent rights because of its cross-licensing with Samsung Electronics, Apple and the like, but now it can launch patent lawsuits or demand an increase in royalties without any limitation.

At the same time, Microsoft can expand its mobile phone business while keeping Samsung and Apple at bay by utilizing Nokia as a sort of cannon fodder.

What American regulators do, if anything, is still up in the air. But with so many industry leaders raising concerns over the issue, they may be forced to act - despite Microsoft's best intentions.

Source: UberGizmoImage via Google

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72 Comments

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Ya, pretty unfair in my opinion. Google was allowed to buy Motorola, and all they used them for was patents, but now Microsoft can't?

techbeck said,
Google tried to use them, they failed. If MS tried to use certain patents in the same way, they will fail as well.

Patents are not part of Microsoft/Nokia deal. all they want Nokia for is their mobile hardware, technologies and services. what is wrong with this? plus who are we to decide what is good and what is not good for them. Korea doing this because samsung putting pressure on government.

So it is ok when Google bought Motorola, but it's not for Microsoft? ... Look like people are scared of Microsoft expanding their mobile market ...

Companies should be worried about competition. This is nothing new or nothing surprising. You have things like this where companies voice concerns about competing companies, and then you have companies who express their concern for the competition by trash marketing, bad mouthing others, and skewing the facts. One is not better than the other and the consumers are the ones that pay the price here.

Same old comments, same old paranoia here. The Nokia deal will go through. Just some questions that some want answered is all. I would be more concerned if companies didnt have questions or issues.

These comments are past ridiculous.

Unfortunately this is becoming one of the worst sites when it comes to fanboyism and it's making the comments unbearable lately.

There are real concerns here about what Nokia can do with their patents after the purchase and there will probably be something put in place to make sure they doesn't abuse the situation but that doesn't mean the deal won't go through.

Don't forget the blatant shilling, agenda pushing and "I'm right and everyone who disagrees with me is a fanboy or troll" mentality. Welcome to the Internet.

Max Norris said,
Don't forget the blatant shilling, agenda pushing and "I'm right and everyone who disagrees with me is a fanboy or troll" mentality. Welcome to the Internet.

I find those who toss out fanboy/troll are normally fanboys/trolls themselves. And many use these names to try and backup their point and discredit others. Sad really that people cannot have normal convos without the hate an spite.

contriver87 said,
Unfortunately this is becoming one of the worst sites when it comes to fanboyism and it's making the comments unbearable lately.

True, and the vibe here is that Google is evil and everyone else is golden. But when MS producing misleading competition bashing advertising, joins groups specifically to go after the competition, and hires people known for crap advertising...many of the same people are OK with that but Google is still evil.

No company is a saint. Whether it be now, the past, or something that will happen in the future. Buy what you like and what you find useful. What I do and I am happy with my MS/Google/and Apple products. Those who just shut themselves in on one platform never looking to see what else is out there really shouldnt be talking.

techbeck said,
True, and the vibe here is that Google is evil and everyone else is golden.

Weird, I can go into pretty much any news article having to do with Microsoft and see all sorts of evil MS comments too. Quite often it's a small number of people making the majority of posts in any given topic too.

techbeck said,
No company is a saint. Whether it be now, the past, or something that will happen in the future.

No arguments there, I use pretty much everything in my household, be it Windows, Unix or Linux, Android, etc. (Well except Apple products.. no bias, just not a fan.) I like to keep an open mind, and I usually don't even care what somebody else thinks, but what ticks me off is people pushing a blatant agenda (and half the time twisting the truth or ignoring their "champion" doing the exact same thing) to get their skewed points across. Yea, MS has done some shady things... and guess what, Google is no better (among others, just an example), and frankly getting worse as time goes on. Started "good" and quickly going down that slippery slope, but people like to focus on what Microsoft did ~20 years ago.

Max Norris said,

Weird, I can go into pretty much any news article having to do with Microsoft and see all sorts of evil MS comments too. Quite often it's a small number of people making the majority of posts in any given topic too.

True


No arguments there, I use pretty much everything in my household, be it Windows, Unix or Linux, Android, etc. (Well except Apple products.. no bias, just not a fan.) I like to keep an open mind, and I usually don't even care what somebody else thinks, but what ticks me off is people pushing a blatant agenda (and half the time twisting the truth or ignoring their "champion" doing the exact same thing) to get their skewed points across. Yea, MS has done some shady things... and guess what, Google is no better (among others, just an example), and frankly getting worse as time goes on. Started "good" and quickly going down that slippery slope, but people like to focus on what Microsoft did ~20 years ago.

Agreed. I am a fan of all/most tech. Some I find a use for, some I dont. And this focusing on what happend in the past....Google-dont be evil, Apple - Your holding it wrong, Microsoft - Win8 needs to go. Get over it. And companies like this do have a good image to start with, then they get big and do stupid things. Why there are laws/rules to knocked them down a few pegs if/when needed. MS had to go through it buy many here "forget" that. Its called growing pains and Google will have to pay their dues like everyone else.

despite Microsoft's best intentions.

I think the fear is that if Nokia is no longer producing phones, it will turn in to a full time patent troll. And it's not just Asia that's concerned. The EU has also warned Nokia about going down that path.

HTC is prime example of how Nokia, free from having to cross license, could hold the entire smartphone market to random over its patents. That would be very damaging to competition. I'd like to see some oversight to this acquisition too, if not a significant delay until authorities can be sure Nokia isn't going to be a patent troll attacking Microsoft's competitors while leaving MS alone.

So I fear that my neighbor who just lost his job is going to become a serial killer, so clearly he needs to be incarcerated immediately. How about they actually see if Nokia does turn into a patent troll and then let the courts deal with it with suitably harsh penalties that would no doubt wipe out whatever's left of the company? Let them issue a clear warning beforehand if needed, that's fine. But this entire "we fear they'll magically turn into patent trolls overnight" thing is just plain BS and FUD being spread around, nothing more.

Romero said,
So I fear that my neighbor who just lost his job is going to become a serial killer, so clearly he needs to be incarcerated immediately.

Reductio ad absurdum.

Romero said,

How about they actually see if Nokia does turn into a patent troll and then let the courts deal with it

As we've seen with Apple vs Samsung, and Nokia vs HTC. These lawsuits go worldwide and last for years. The potential damage to competition is what's at stake here. Microsoft is trying to make its own platform more attractive to OEM's than Android by litigation and patent trolling. Why not just make the better platform instead? If Microsoft put half as much effort into WP as it does into patent abuse, it might have a successful platform by now.

Romero said,

But this entire "we fear they'll magically turn into patent trolls overnight" thing is just plain BS and FUD being spread around, nothing more.

The EU antitrust commissioner didn't think so. He publicly warned Nokia not to think of becoming a patent troll after selling its devices unit. Personally, I think more proactive action is necessary to prevent it occurring in the first place.

Others have spoken about your supposed patent abuse claims regarding MS already, so I won't get into that again.

simplezz said,
The EU antitrust commissioner didn't think so. He publicly warned Nokia not to think of becoming a patent troll after selling its devices unit.
Which is fine, but clearly he had sense enough not to cancel the deal itself or even delay it significantly like you are advocating. Innocent till proven guilty and all that, but clearly not according to you given how you're going on and on about Nokia becoming MS' patent attack troll, because clearly that's gonna happen 100% and the EU antitrust commissioner made a mistake in approving the deal.

Of course now that we're into Samsung's home territory I'm sure the regulator there won't be happy with a warning and/or undertaking and will do its best to cancel the deal.

Edited by Romero, Mar 11 2014, 2:21pm :

simplezz said,

I think the fear is that if Nokia is no longer producing phones, it will turn in to a full time patent troll. And it's not just Asia that's concerned. The EU has also warned Nokia about going down that path.

HTC is prime example of how Nokia, free from having to cross license, could hold the entire smartphone market to random over its patents. That would be very damaging to competition. I'd like to see some oversight to this acquisition too, if not a significant delay until authorities can be sure Nokia isn't going to be a patent troll attacking Microsoft's competitors while leaving MS alone.

HTC is a prime example of patent trolling? Out of all the companies making millions of phones Nokia is a patent troll for going after one of the ones who's doing worst? As far as I know, if they're going to patent troll why not attack the bigger fish? Samsung, LG, Lenovo? In the end didn't HTC and Nokia agree to a deal, another cross-licensing agreement, probably what Nokia wanted from the start but HTC didn't.

Either way, one example doesn't not a troll make, the HTC thing was hardly aggressive. But let's just spread fear around, that always works.

Microsoft should counter Google and Samsung, and talk about the anticompetitive nature of Android, and how drives down the price of software for millions of developers.

I don't want Microsoft and take over parts of Nokia.
Microsoft can already make phones themselves of they want to. They can make Surface and a mobile phone is not a long shot from there.
Also, Nokia needs to stand on its own legs. I'm more likely to buy Nokia products if they remain standing alone.
I don't like when big companies buy up other companies left and right.
I like both Microsoft and Nokia but I don't like what Microsoft wants to do here.

Good then that it's not up to you, isn't it? Nokia's and Microsoft's boards and shareholders have approved the deal and almost all regulators across the world have too other than China and now Korea making a fuss because Samsung and others as Google's proxies are belatedly trying to scuttle the deal.

I don't find it to be wrong in the same ways at Google and Samsung. It's just that I don't think it's a good idea for Nokia in the long run as it will take away some of the focus on Nokia and it will be more Microsoft-centered.

But there's nothing left for Nokia to do, is there? Keeping aside the past and whether they could have done things differently and whether it would have turned out better or worse (none of which anyone can really know), in future this deal is going to make them more focussed, not less so. The remaining part of Nokia can focus on its strengths after divesting itself of its mobile devices unit, and probably do a whole lot better for itself than going bankrupt which I think was a real possibility for them.

paulheu said,
Google and Samsung sh*tting their pants over this. they know there's a storm coming for them with this merger.

I don't think Google is too worried. They just don't want to give MS any chance, no matter how small, at gaining market share. When it comes to phones, Google is the new MS. And they're using all the ''evil'' tricks MS used in the 90's. It backfired on MS and I'm sure Google will see their day in court within the next decade. Time to see Larry Page breakdown in court and become a philanthropist.

pratnala said,
Wherever I stay, India i.e.

People just *love* Google here and really think that they "do no evil". I am effing serious

There are just as many Google haters/supporters as there are MS and Apple here. Look in to any thread about any platform and the trolls are rampant as well as the paranoia

pratnala said,
Wherever I stay, India i.e.

People just *love* Google here and really think that they "do no evil". I am effing serious

Google provides a lot of ''free'' services. I imagine that is very attractive to a market like India. However I think there will come a point when the darkside of these free services is revealed.

Dear Microsoft, here is one plan that will actually work: MAKE WINDOWS PHONE AWESOME, even more awesome than it already is, and continue making it awesome after it becomes awesome. Guaranteed to keep Nokia making WP devices if the deal doesn't go through.

FalseAgent said,
Dear Microsoft, here is one plan that will actually work: MAKE WINDOWS PHONE AWESOME, even more awesome than it already is, and continue making it awesome after it becomes awesome. Guaranteed to keep Nokia making WP devices if the deal doesn't go through.

Define 'awesome'? I'm sure plenty of people consider Linux to be 'awesome' yet that hasn't helped them sell the OS to the masses. I like WP and I'm sure Nokia does too but without enough traction they still have to consider Android. They have mouths to feed and can't follow MS forever. Whereas MS can survive many Phone failures. So at this point in time MS needs to secure the longivity of their Phone efforts. They need this deal to go through.

This is just a cowardly move that is behind Samsung and Google. They know that Microsoft and Nokia can make a big difference and could potentially take market share of Google and Samsung.

macoman said,
This is just a cowardly move that is behind Samsung and Google. They know that Microsoft and Nokia can make a big difference and could potentially take market share of Google and Samsung.

Except that it's not just G & S. Many organisations are concerned about the very real possibility of Nokia becoming a full time patent troll, and rightly so if the lawsuits against HTC is anything to go by.

This is so a non-story. Nokia's patents are not part of the deal, so really, the KEA doesn't have a leg to stand on in that regard.

Even if they WERE, the selling of them would not negate pre-existing cross-licensing deals.

EvilAstroboy said,
I Smell Corruption
I smell Google's hand behind this, pushing its Android OEM pocket-dogs forward.

FloatingFatMan said,
This is so a non-story. Nokia's patents are not part of the deal, so really, the KEA doesn't have a leg to stand on in that regard.

It's better for Microsoft if Nokia keeps its patents and sues all the Android makers. That way Microsoft won't be accused of anti-competitive practices, and Nokia gets all the flak for being a patent troll. The fact that MS has an agreement to license Nokia's patents for a decade should throw up all kinds of warning flags to antitrust authorities. It means Nokia can sue everyone producing Android devices, but not WP. That's what you call anticompetitive.

FloatingFatMan said,

Even if they WERE, the selling of them would not negate pre-existing cross-licensing deals.

The problem is, without a phone unit, Nokia doesn't need to cross-license any more. It means it can become a full time patent troll on behalf of Microsoft attacking its competition without fear of counter-suits.

simplezz said,

The problem is, without a phone unit, Nokia doesn't need to cross-license any more. It means it can become a full time patent troll on behalf of Microsoft attacking its competition without fear of counter-suits.

Not to the companies where they have existing licensing deals they can't; also, why would they? Apart from the HTC case where it was pretty blatant, Nokia have never shown any interest in suing over patents...

FloatingFatMan said,

Not to the companies where they have existing licensing deals they can't;

Many of those deals were done some time ago. I imagine quite a few of them are coming up for renewal. And this time around Nokia are going to be looking to get much more favourable terms now that it doesn't need cross licensing.

FloatingFatMan said,

also, why would they? Apart from the HTC case where it was pretty blatant, Nokia have never shown any interest in suing over patents...

Are you forgetting that Nokia started the patent wars in smartphones? And now that it doesn't need to cross license you can bet they want their pound of flesh from every Android maker.

Nokia was attacking HTC very aggressively and globally, even for things like snapdragon chips, which they didn't even make. Yes HTC was an easy target, but I think Nokia was testing the waters so to speak. If it could force HTC into expensive licensing deals, it could very well do the same for all the other Android OEM's.

We'll have to wait and see how Nokia acts, but I have a feeling that unless antitrust authorities add stipulations to this acquisition, the smartphone market could well face an onslaught of patent trolling.

Why would MS have any say in what Nokia does with it's patents? These are the same patents they agree to license as part of the deal anyways, MS doesn't buy them, Nokia keeps them. So far the only one Nokia has gone after with it's patents it's HTC and you'd have to wonder, if they were going to be patent trolling they would've started years ago not wait till now.

It seems like tossing around MS's name in this is just another way to attract headlines.

George P said,
Why would MS have any say in what Nokia does with it's patents?

Having a decade long patent licensing deal means Nokia can only attack Microsoft's competition. Why would MS want to own the patents themselves when it's just as easy to create a patent troll who can attack competitors on your behalf?

"despite Microsoft's best intentions"
Indeed, their best intentions of crushing the competition with the weight of patents they never invented.

Good to see other countries standing up and pointing out this potential threat to competition and making the FCC take notice.

recursive said,
"despite Microsoft's best intentions"
Indeed, their best intentions of crushing the competition with the weight of patents they never invented.Good to see other countries standing up and pointing out this potential threat to competition and making the FCC take notice.

After all the Negative post from you on Windows Phone news, you now finally admitted that Windows Phone is a threat to Google and Samsung

Also, What does MS got to do with Nokia patents ? "Nokia rarely exercised its patent rights because of its cross-licensing with Samsung Electronics, "

edit: Nokia patents are not ..repeat ...NOT part of the Nokia/MS deal , MS will still have to pay ( not 100% on this ) their own patents use to Nokia

Google and Samsung are just saying MS and so the deal cannot go through, MS have their own patent deals already with both these companies

Edited by EvilAstroboy, Mar 11 2014, 7:55am :

recursive said,
"despite Microsoft's best intentions"
Indeed, their best intentions of crushing the competition with the weight of patents they never invented.

Good to see other countries standing up and pointing out this potential threat to competition and making the FCC take notice.

Assuming you're not just trolling, if you take an objective look at what MS has done with their patents in the past, it's more than fair - remember, in order to keep a patent, you're obligated by law to protect it. MS could have been like Apple and sued the Android OEMs over violating their patents, forcing them to stop making Android phones, but instead agreed on a licensing deal - avoiding nasty lawsuits (for the most part) and allowing OEMs to continue to make Android phones. It's one of the more charitable options MS could have chosen in our less-than-best patent system today. There is no evidence they would change once they acquired Nokia.

recursive said,
"despite Microsoft's best intentions"
Indeed, their best intentions of crushing the competition with the weight of patents they never invented.

Good to see other countries standing up and pointing out this potential threat to competition and making the FCC take notice.


I agree unlike Samsung/Google abusing FRANDS. /s

EvilAstroboy said,

After all the Negative post from you on Windows Phone news, you now finally admitted that Windows Phone is a threat to Google and Samsung

My post never mentioned Windows phone, Google or Samsung.

recursive said,

My post never mentioned Windows phone, Google or Samsung.


*R
So its all about Xbox and PS, and PC's ?
We all knew what you are saying in the first post

NateB1 said,
Assuming you're not just trolling, if you take an objective look at what MS has done with their patents in the past, it's more than fair - remember, in order to keep a patent, you're obligated by law to protect it. MS could have been like Apple and sued the Android OEMs over violating their patents, forcing them to stop making Android phones, but instead agreed on a licensing deal - avoiding nasty lawsuits (for the most part) and allowing OEMs to continue to make Android phones.

Only on this forum could Microsoft forcing companies into multi-million/billion dollar licensing agreements be considered a positive attribute. Microsoft went out of its way to acquire those patents from other companies for the specific purpose of going after Google, spending billions of dollars on them (just look up the Nortel patents).

theyarecomingforyou said,

Only on this forum could Microsoft forcing companies into multi-million/billion dollar licensing agreements be considered a positive attribute. Microsoft went out of its way to acquire those patents from other companies for the specific purpose of going after Google, spending billions of dollars on them (just look up the Nortel patents).

In most cases MS signs cross-licensing deals with other companies, and in the cases where it doesn't, I have yet to see where it charges multi-billion dollar deals to, you're exaggerating things, by a lot.

All you have to do is look at MS's earnings statement to see that their patent and licensing part of the business doesn't even reach the billion dollar mark, and you'd think with all the deals in place they'd be making billions just from them, but they're not.

You're example should be flipped, we all know why Google paid billions to by Motorola and then tried to extort MS for billions using it's weak patents, that are covered under FRAND to begin with.

The Nortel deal was because it was an auction, others were bidding iirc, that on it's own jacks up the price regardless.

theyarecomingforyou said,
just look up the Nortel patents
The Rockstar Consortium is made up of Apple, BlackBerry, Ericsson and Sony besides Microsoft, and Google was invited to be a part of it but refused, instead trying to act all cute by bidding Brun's constant billion, Meissel-Mertens billion and Pi billion dollars before having their *** handed to them.

recursive said,
"despite Microsoft's best intentions"
Indeed, their best intentions of crushing the competition with the weight of patents they never invented.

Good to see other countries standing up and pointing out this potential threat to competition and making the FCC take notice.

I am puzzle why trolls like yourself spent a great deal of time trashing anything MS related... learn the definition of patent troll and look up troll... you are one.

Boohoo, it's called competition. And Nokia's patents are not even part of this deal. Microsoft is acquiring the Nokia Mobile Division and will be licensing patents and here maps from Nokia.

theyarecomingforyou said,

Only on this forum could Microsoft forcing companies into multi-million/billion dollar licensing agreements be considered a positive attribute. Microsoft went out of its way to acquire those patents from other companies for the specific purpose of going after Google, spending billions of dollars on them (just look up the Nortel patents).


Yeah, it is better than abusing FRAND unlike google or trying to ban competitor products unlike Apple.

If a company owns a patent, it is their RESPONSIBILITY to protect it. They will have to answer to the board/shareholders if they do not.

EvilAstroboy said,

After all the Negative post from you on Windows Phone news, you now finally admitted that Windows Phone is a threat to Google and Samsung

Oh it's not Windows Phone that's a threat, it's the patents. Hence why all the complaints to regulators involve the risk of patent abuse.

Microsoft can't win the smartphone wars through its Windows OS, so it wants to use government granted monopolies (patents) to litigate the competition away. Dirty tactics, but this is Microsoft we're talking about here.

EvilAstroboy said,

Also, What does MS got to do with Nokia patents ? "Nokia rarely exercised its patent rights because of its cross-licensing with Samsung Electronics, "

And without a smartphone unit, it won't need to renew those cross licensing deals. Microsoft will be immune for 10 years while Nokia lays waste to all Microsoft's competitors. That's the fear about this deal, and I'm inclined to agree with them.

EvilAstroboy said,

edit: Nokia patents are not ..repeat ...NOT part of the Nokia/MS deal , MS will still have to pay ( not 100% on this ) their own patents use to Nokia

Yes they are part of the deal. Microsoft gets a free pass too use Nokia's patents for 10 years. Who do you think Nokia is going to squeeze during this time? Microsoft's competitors of course. Nokia just became MS' litigation attack dog against Android.

EvilAstroboy said,

Google and Samsung are just saying MS and so the deal cannot go through, MS have their own patent deals already with both these companies

It's not just those two companies that are concerned about Microsoft and Nokia's potential for patent abuse with this deal. The EU has publicly warned Nokia.

simplezz said,

It's not just those two companies that are concerned about Microsoft and Nokia's potential for patent abuse with this deal. The EU has publicly warned Nokia.

Right, but according to some...Google is pulling the strings.

And why are people so angry? They are not trying to stop the buyout....they just want questions answered. Now, if the were trying to block the buyout, I would be angry with everyone else. But again, that is not the case.

Edited by techbeck, Mar 11 2014, 2:37pm :

techbeck said,
They are not trying to stop the buyout....they just want questions answered. Now, if the were trying to block the buyout, I would be angry with everyone else. But again, that is not the case.
So their questions weren't answered when all the other regulators including in America and the EU debated the deal? If anything I'd think that the EU was the toughest hurdle to cross, so what's this late charge for once again now that we've come to Samsung's own home ground? I definitely think just having "questions answered" is not their main purpose behind pulling this stunt.

Romero said,
So their questions weren't answered when all the other regulators including in America and the EU debated the deal? If anything I'd think that the EU was the toughest hurdle to cross, so what's this late charge for once again now that we've come to Samsung's own home ground? I definitely think just having "questions answered" is not their main purpose behind pulling this stunt.

Apparently Samsung's, and several others, concerns were not answered or else they wouldn't be going thru this. And the governments are hearing their concerns so apparently, there are more things to clear up and more questions to answer.

No one knows the specifics here and most of the comments here in this thread are speculation, guessing, or just plane hate towards certain companies.

And again, nothing is being blocked here and the sale will go thru. So not sure why all the anger and hate here except it being the competition that is raising the questions.

techbeck said,
And the governments are hearing their concerns so apparently
Yeah, South Korean government hearing the "concerns" of their own companies, what a surprise. Meanwhile the American (Microsoft) and European (Nokia) regulators didn't see a problem with approval, perhaps with a warning for Nokia chucked in for good measure but nothing more. Were Google, Samsung, LG and the S. Korean regulators sleeping all this while?

techbeck said,
And again, nothing is being blocked here and the sale will go thru.
You seem to be very sure of this somehow, not to mention the fact that the deal going through after a massive delay or significantly hobbled with onerous riders is going to be as good as being cancelled. Anyway, all we can do is see how this plays out.

Edited by Romero, Mar 11 2014, 3:22pm :

Romero said,
You seem to be very sure of this somehow, not to mention the fact that the deal going through after a massive delay or significantly hobbled with onerous riders is going to be as good as being cancelled. Anyway, all we can do is see how this plays out.

I am going by what is being reported on. Not assuming there is a bigger agenda or some kind of conspiracy. I can assume all I want but that gets no where when the facts and all the info have not even been stated or released.

Right now there is no indication that the sale is being blocked so it will probably go through. It may be delayed a little longer, but welcome to how things work. And again, I am going on what is being reported on. If Samsung was quoted as saying they were trying to block the sale...then I would be saying something different now.

techbeck said,
If Samsung was quoted as saying they were trying to block the sale...then I would be saying something different now.
Really? Do you honestly think they're going to come right out and say that? I hope the S. Korean regulators apply some common sense but if not things might get downright ugly and that's not going to benefit anyone.

Romero said,
Really? Do you honestly think they're going to come right out and say that? I hope the S. Korean regulators apply some common sense but if not things might get downright ugly and that's not going to benefit anyone.

If they were trying to block the sale, it would come out eventually what they are doing. Info gets leaked all the time and is the norm. I never said they would come out and say there were blocking the sale. Just said I didnt think so based on what is being reported.

techbeck said,
If they were trying to block the sale, it would come out eventually what they are doing. Info gets leaked all the time and is the norm.
Info about what they're going to do might be leaked but not necessarily what their real aim is (which only the top leadership team would know), however given enough evidence it shouldn't be difficult to figure out. Anyway, I agree with you that we're all just presenting our thoughts here and over the next few days/weeks it should be increasingly clear where this is heading. I'm sure Neowin will facilitate another discussion on this topic soon, hopefully with more details.

theyarecomingforyou said,

Only on this forum could Microsoft forcing companies into multi-million/billion dollar licensing agreements be considered a positive attribute. Microsoft went out of its way to acquire those patents from other companies for the specific purpose of going after Google, spending billions of dollars on them (just look up the Nortel patents).

theyarecomingforyou...I'm disappointed cause you are better than this. If you are resorting to exaggeration and spreading fud then I guess I can no longer value your opinion.

Thankfully George P has already set the record straight.

Zidane said,

theyarecomingforyou...I'm disappointed cause you are better than this. If you are resorting to exaggeration and spreading fud then I guess I can no longer value your opinion.

Well he's right. What Microsoft's doing is tantamount to widespread extortion. Yet on Neowin, it's perfectly acceptable.

Could you imagine the reaction if Google was forcing OEM's producing Windows Phones into expensive licensing agreements under duress? Everyone and their dog would be saying "Google is evil" etc. There's a clear bias here, that's all he's saying, and he's quite correct.

Zidane said,

Thankfully George P has already set the record straight.

Why am I not surprised you agree with George 8-)

recursive said,
"despite Microsoft's best intentions"
Indeed, their best intentions of crushing the competition with the weight of patents they never invented.

Good to see other countries standing up and pointing out this potential threat to competition and making the FCC take notice.


if there is one potential threat to competition that would be samsung and google, copying the best features and styles from everyone else and crushing everyone making smartphone with the exception of iphone.

simplezz said,

Well he's right. What Microsoft's doing is tantamount to widespread extortion. Yet on Neowin, it's perfectly acceptable.

Could you imagine the reaction if Google was forcing OEM's producing Windows Phones into expensive licensing agreements under duress? Everyone and their dog would be saying "Google is evil" etc. There's a clear bias here, that's all he's saying, and he's quite correct.


Why am I not surprised you agree with George 8-)

Still waiting on the sources to backup the multibillion dollar claims made above. I can easily look at Microsoft's earnings reports; can you point that out for me?

I'm also having a hard time finding where I claimed MS isn't extorting people. In reality, I find every company with patents doing so. Its the nature of the beast; a modern day gold rush. Again, I never refuted that; unless your reading comprehension is below high school level, I clearly refuted the multi-billion dollar amounts claimed.

This has nothing to do with your perceived biasness of Neowin.

Come back with proof of those dollar amounts or don't debate at all.

Zidane said,

Still waiting on the sources to backup the multibillion dollar claims made above. I can easily look at Microsoft's earnings reports; can you point that out for me?
Come back with proof of those dollar amounts or don't debate at all.

Although Microsoft conceals it well in order to negate Xbox and Windows Phone losses, some people have extrapolated the figures from the Entertainment and Devices group:
http://www.businessinsider.com...id-patent-royalties-2013-11

Zidane said,

In reality, I find every company with patents doing so.

Except that they're not. There are a few major patent extortioners like Microsoft and Nokia, then there are the PAE's (patent assertion entities), most of which are funded and given patents by the major extortioners in order to avoid double dipping.

I don't know of any other company who is extorting on the level of Microsoft though, whose web of litigation spreads right across the whole smartphone, tablet, and laptop markets. Even SCO's, who incidentally was funded by Microsoft, attack on Linux only covered one market. I've never before heard of this level of racketeering going on except perhaps under Al Capone and the Mafiaa.

Zidane said,

Its the nature of the beast; a modern day gold rush.

Hardly. Trading in the ownership of ideas is what it comes down to; some of which are so broad, vague, and obvious that it boggles the mind that they even get approved. And a lot of them are declared invalid upon closer inspection:
http://www.neowin.net/news/mic...ourt-invalidates-fat-patent

simplezz said,

Except that they're not. There are a few major patent extortioners like Microsoft and Nokia, then there are the PAE's (patent assertion entities), most of which are funded and given patents by the major extortioners in order to avoid double dipping.


TIL: Taking patent royalties has another name: Extortion.

Thanks man!