Microsoft's Frank Shaw joins the Facebook Home bashing crowd

Thursday brought us the official reveal of Facebook Home, a series of upcoming Facebook overlays that will be made for Android-based smartphones. During the presentation, Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg and others said that Facebook Home was designed to center on putting people first.

It didn't take long for Microsoft's Windows Phone Twitter page to mention that the mobile phone OS already has a "people" centric theme. Today, Microsoft's Corporate Vice President of Corporate Communications Frank Shaw continued the Facebook Home bashing in a new post on the official Microsoft blog.

The post began by Shaw stating, "I tuned into the coverage of the Facebook Home event yesterday and actually had to check my calendar a few times. Not to see if it was still April Fools Day, but to see if it was somehow still 2011. Because the content of the presentation was remarkably similar to the launch event we did for Windows Phone two years ago."

The blog continued with Shaw mentioning a list of those Windows Phone "people first" features, including Live Tile notifications, putting all social networking connections in one People hub, pinning apps to the Start screen and more.

Shaw then added:

So, we understand why Facebook would want to find a way to bring similar functionality to a platform that is sadly lacking it. But as Android owners know, that platform is complicated enough without adding another skin built around another metaphor, on top of what is already a custom variant of the OS. So, while we applaud Facebook for working to give some Android owners a taste of what a “people-centric” phone can be like, we’d humbly like to suggest that you get the real thing, and simply upgrade to a Windows Phone.

This new war of words from Microsoft to Facebook is even more interesting considering that Microsoft has a small investment in Facebook and has teamed up with Facebook to offer integration with its Bing search service.

Source: Microsoft

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I wonder if Microsoft will do some more "bashing" on the CW network with their horrible product placements of their crappy products.

Are the shows on CW meant to be so bad with these crappy placements? Oh well. Maybe Vampire Diaries will bash Facebook for Microsoft.

Microsoft are bashing the competition again, this is not a good look and has become a trend for the company who are in some ways on a downward trajectory in many markets, they are doing it this time because they have now lost a once unique marketing strategy they had with windows phone.

Now people don't need to go out on a limb and buy a windows phone, they can get an Android phone like all of their friends have but still get a people centric experience. This is the best of both worlds for a consumer, the way it should be, and another nail in the coffin for beleaguered windows phone.

Edited by derekaw, Apr 6 2013, 12:41am : Typo

Android complicated? Really? There is nothing complicated about it. This is more a stab at Android than it is Facebook bashing.

neonspark said,
it's not complicated, it's a mess

Only for those who are not smart enough to use a SIMPLE phone/os...or people like who have little to no experience. Hell, my parents/grandparents have no problem using Android and my grandparents are in their 80s.

I am due for a phone upgrade soon and I would like to go WP. But I am not going to go any platform that does more bad mouthing than focusing on their own products. But that my personal preference.

techbeck said,
Android complicated? Really? There is nothing complicated about it.

And yet it's pretty much the only mobile OS platform with a significant number of desktop-esque system tools, such as memory managers, task killers, CPU _anything_, backup, pixie dust and voodoo battery enhancement crap, etc.

Android gets away with having a community that insists your average schmo can use it "just fine" out of the box while simultaneously looking down on them for not putting the effort into customization. It's very Linux like that.

/oh, you don't like android? no problem! just root it, flash a custom boot loader, wipe it, install a package from a stranger on a web forum, manually remove any apks you don't like, install a launcher, check out all these half-baked alternatives to any stock apps you might have liked, and welcome to being committed to regular updates because OF COURSE IT'S BUGGY WE'RE DOING THIS FOR FREE STOP COMPLAINING GOD.

Joshie said,

And yet it's pretty much the only mobile OS platform with a significant number of desktop-esque system tools, such as memory managers, task killers, CPU _anything_, backup, pixie dust and voodoo battery enhancement crap, etc.

Android gets away with having a community that insists your average schmo can use it "just fine" out of the box while simultaneously looking down on them for not putting the effort into customization. It's very Linux like that.

/oh, you don't like android? no problem! just root it, flash a custom boot loader, wipe it, install a package from a stranger on a web forum, manually remove any apks you don't like, install a launcher, check out all these half-baked alternatives to any stock apps you might have liked, and welcome to being committed to regular updates because OF COURSE IT'S BUGGY WE'RE DOING THIS FOR FREE STOP COMPLAINING GOD.

Yea, all of this was needed on older phones with an older Android OS. On newer phones the past few years, none of that is needed. I dont know anyone who uses those apps now and they are pretty much dead. Do you seriously think anyone would use Android if all of this "crap" was still needed?

And people root because they like to change the way the phone looks/operates. Just like many people customize/mod Windows or any other OS as much as they can and as much as the OS allows. Granted several years back people rooted to do what you said...get rid of crap to improve performance. But again, that is not needed even with all the extra junk installed.

techbeck said,

Only for those who are not smart enough to use a SIMPLE phone/os...or people like who have little to no experience. Hell, my parents/grandparents have no problem using Android and my grandparents are in their 80s.

I am due for a phone upgrade soon and I would like to go WP. But I am not going to go any platform that does more bad mouthing than focusing on their own products. But that my personal preference.


Hmm, Google shows allot more hatred publicly against Microsoft, then Microsoft against Google.
Yet you pick Google with that horrible hypocritical argument? You're a joke dude.

techbeck said,

Yea, all of this was needed on older phones with an older Android OS. On newer phones the past few years, none of that is needed. I dont know anyone who uses those apps now and they are pretty much dead. Do you seriously think anyone would use Android if all of this "crap" was still needed?

And people root because they like to change the way the phone looks/operates. Just like many people customize/mod Windows or any other OS as much as they can and as much as the OS allows. Granted several years back people rooted to do what you said...get rid of crap to improve performance. But again, that is not needed even with all the extra junk installed.


People don't root because they like to change the way the phone works/looks.
They do it so they can install free apps that you usually have to pay for. The occasional individual will put a new ROM on it. But generally its for free sh*t, same as why people in general jailbreak an iPhone.

And again, you're left in the hands of complete strangers that might not have the best interest with you. I rather get something from a big company then from some random bloke in his basement.
And before you come that FOSS cr*p is more secure because people have access to the source and such, because that's one of the worst idioitic arguments ;d

Shadowzz said,

People don't root because they like to change the way the phone works/looks.
They do it so they can install free apps that you usually have to pay for. The occasional individual will put a new ROM on it. But generally its for free sh*t, same as why people in general jailbreak an iPhone.

Oh please, I have been rooting since the G1 came out on T-Mobile. I have bought every single app and never pirated anything. Same goes true for a hell of a lot of other people. Modding is the MAJOR thing on android and is why there are a ton of roms/mods posted for it. They also root to apply faster kernals/roms, which many times things can be not stable, they root to install programs like Titanium Backup so they and do full system backups, and just take more control over their device. The notion that people only root to pirate apps is ridiculous.

Shadowzz said,

Hmm, Google shows allot more hatred publicly against Microsoft, then Microsoft against Google.
Yet you pick Google with that horrible hypocritical argument? .

Oh please, it is the other way around. Get over it already.


You're a joke dude

Grow up and learn to have a mature conversation. Tho your comments do amuse me....

techbeck said,

Yea, all of this was needed on older phones with an older Android OS. On newer phones the past few years, none of that is needed. I dont know anyone who uses those apps now and they are pretty much dead. Do you seriously think anyone would use Android if all of this "crap" was still needed?

And people root because they like to change the way the phone looks/operates. Just like many people customize/mod Windows or any other OS as much as they can and as much as the OS allows. Granted several years back people rooted to do what you said...get rid of crap to improve performance. But again, that is not needed even with all the extra junk installed.


Your subjective perspective has no power over reality, I'm afraid, and if you think those apps were only used in the past, you're just making your disconnect from the Android userbase all the more visible.

You can go, right now, to the Play store on the web, look up the Tools category under apps, and see what's still _making money_, let alone the freebies, and backup apps, CPU modifiers, and task killers, are still right up top.

I'm sorry if reality isn't jiving with the narrative you've subscribed to.

Joshie said,

Your subjective perspective has no power over reality, I'm afraid, and if you think those apps were only used in the past, you're just making your disconnect from the Android userbase all the more visible.

You can go, right now, to the Play store on the web, look up the Tools category under apps, and see what's still _making money_, let alone the freebies, and backup apps, CPU modifiers, and task killers, are still right up top.

Apparently you fail to see where I said older phones and older OS. Do you relaize there ares still a lot of low end/cheap android devices that are being sold with the older OS? Do you realize there are still a lot of older devices in use with older OS versions that could benefit from these apps? Of course not and you would realize this if you were not so damn arrogant.


I'm sorry if reality isn't jiving with the narrative you've subscribed to.

Grow up

@+techbeck don't bother with the trolls. They know nothing. Most people who root their phones do it because they can. They like experimenting. The only thing they like to steal is bandwidth. They install a free tethering app to get around not paying for tethering. They don't root their phones to install a free app. You can do that by sideloading with a locked bootloader and no root.

But don't tell the trolls that. Their comments are priceless. Shows how people will push FUD until they're "BLUE" in the face.

Ignore them. Your points were on the money.

techbeck said,

Apparently you fail to see where I said older phones and older OS. Do you relaize there ares still a lot of low end/cheap android devices that are being sold with the older OS? Do you realize there are still a lot of older devices in use with older OS versions that could benefit from these apps? Of course not and you would realize this if you were not so damn arrogant.

Grow up

It's cool that you're sticking to the same tired, unproven argument you started with. At least now you're backing it up with solid...personal attacks. And hey, you even have a cheerleader who offers even less to the topic, but I'm sure you appreciate him all the same.

It's clear that you've convinced yourself of a reality you're comfortable with, and all the evidence in the world means nothing to you. I could point to the fact that Tasker is still selling today on thousands of 4.x Android handsets, and is actively maintained. I could point out that people are still putting SetCPU on the latest versions of Cyanogenmod. None of this matters to you, because you have your perspective, and if facts disagree with it, well they just aren't the RIGHT facts, right?

MS is right about the people centric jabs at FB. Even HTC took design cues from MS with Blinkfeed(I just ordered the HTC ONE). Their concept will catch on to many things going forward. It doesn't have to be a hit in order for them to jan at companies using their design cues. Many critics of MS have been positive about the WP8 UI.

They could simply have taken it as an opportunity to point out People hub without being quite so negative about Android. The danger with being so negative is that you actually insult your potential customer.

To be honest, I can understand MS's frustration. They've put out quite things that are great products, to which they get little to no recognition for, only to have someone else present the same idea later on and that company gets endless praise. Facebook Home/People Hub is just another example of that.

Not to say that everything MS does is great or that they always get it right, but there is a very obvious double standard against them.

singularity87 said,
They could simply have taken it as an opportunity to point out People hub without being quite so negative about Android. The danger with being so negative is that you actually insult your potential customer.

Or perhaps MS is tired of every other company be negative towards them, and just not going to sit back and take it any more. One company ran a series of ads for years accusing MS of doing the very things that company did, or completely distorted the truth. Companies that continuously attack Microsoft's products, or whine to governments over the smallest thing or things they themselves do, and the people cheer that.

But Microsoft is just being a big meanie to companies like Google, FB, Apple, and so on, (sniff) just leave them alone!

This is perfectly said. By no means is MS perfect, but they don't get enough credit when it's due, and they often catch more crap than any other company (Apple, Google) would in the same scenario. I honestly don't get the wholesale distaste of MS by some people, or any company for that matter. Is it people harboring resentment from MS in the 90s still? Can someone help me out?

I like and use a lot of MS products, but I also recognize, like, and use products that I feel warrant their use from Apple and Google as well.

singularity87 said,
They could simply have taken it as an opportunity to point out People hub without being quite so negative about Android. The danger with being so negative is that you actually insult your potential customer.

Microsoft has never been known to play nice with Android so I dont expect it from them now.

Stryker297 said,
This is perfectly said. By no means is MS perfect, but they don't get enough credit when it's due, and they often catch more crap than any other company (Apple, Google) would in the same scenario. I honestly don't get the wholesale distaste of MS by some people, or any company for that matter. Is it people harboring resentment from MS in the 90s still? Can someone help me out?

I like and use a lot of MS products, but I also recognize, like, and use products that I feel warrant their use from Apple and Google as well.

MS should fire the entire Image and PR team and hire better people; the company has money to do it.

techbeck said,

Microsoft has never been known to play nice with Android so I dont expect it from them now.


Maybe because parts of Android are stolen from Microsoft? It just might have something to do with it don't ya think?

Shadowzz said,

Maybe because parts of Android are stolen from Microsoft? It just might have something to do with it don't ya think?

And Microsoft never ever has stolen anything. And most of the lawsuits were not aimed at Google...they have been aimed at the OEMS.

Yes, I know Windows Phone 8 is next big thing since sliced bread according to some people on this site, but I really don't think Microsoft has a place to bash anyone. Their phones aren't exactly a "hit".

Nice. Facebook Home is really a joke. I'll stick with my Windows Phone, which aggregates ALL of the people I know and truly Puts People First, not a skin that puts a single social network first.

M_Lyons10 said,
Nice. Facebook Home is really a joke. I'll stick with my Windows Phone, which aggregates ALL of the people I know and truly Puts People First, not a skin that puts a single social network first.

Love them or hate them, Facebook has the most activity. It has your address book and people send messages through it instead of using email. This is the logical next step for Facebook. Microsoft is just sore about it.

Personally I will not install Facebook Home... permanently. I will try it out. But that's just me I like trying things before bashing it.

Just want android needs,more overhead and more crap piled on top. Well the latest comscore numbers show that Windows Phone and Iphone stole android users in the US. Looks like android people are fed up with the laggyness, crashing,malware with android.

Orange Battery said,
I wouldnt say that, Android itself is very good, it just opens itself too much.

Very good? It needs double the resources to even CHALLENGE Windows Phone in performance.
Android has improved significantly over time, but unless they write it from scratch, is a horrible designed OS.

vcfan said,
Just want android needs,more overhead and more crap piled on top. Well the latest comscore numbers show that Windows Phone and Iphone stole android users in the US. Looks like android people are fed up with the laggyness, crashing,malware with android.

LMAO. Let me enlighten you just a tiny bit. iPhone came out in September/October. Windows Phone 8 came out with new devices in September/October. Android came out with ... cherp cherp.

Comscore number are from Sept - Nov. What do you think will happen to these numbers fro outside those quarters? Windows will go down, iPhone will go down and Android will go back up. Now, look at the numbers eventually when it comes close to April and May 2013. Android will sore because of the Galaxy S4. What exciting thing will Apple and Microsoft put out? Well with Apple were looking at the iPhone 5S those numbers again will eventually go back up. How about Microsoft? Cherp cherp snooze.

I have no interest in FB Home but seriously think MS need to look at themselves before bashing others. The only people who are seeing these so called 'bashings' are tech enthusiasts and most will have something from MS. MS need to concentrate on getting themselves back in order before they start playing all these stupid games.

So a company uses the same idea that Microsoft has in their phone (I am not saying stealing the idea, but using the same idea), and then steals (yes, in this case steals) Microsoft's own tag line for that feature, and Microsoft should just sit back and not say a thing? If this were a certain other company we would have the fanboys racing to the internet demanding lawsuits be filed immediately to stop the grave injustice. But instead of suing, Microsoft just says "welcome to the party, we have had it for years, you should try ours" and that is bad?

SoylentG said,
So a company uses the same idea that Microsoft has in their phone (I am not saying stealing the idea, but using the same idea), and then steals (yes, in this case steals) Microsoft's own tag line for that feature, and Microsoft should just sit back and not say a thing? If this were a certain other company we would have the fanboys racing to the internet demanding lawsuits be filed immediately to stop the grave injustice. But instead of suing, Microsoft just says "welcome to the party, we have had it for years, you should try ours" and that is bad?

What you miss is such reactions are counterproductive and backfire...

Fritzly said,

What you miss is such reactions are counterproductive and backfire...

Really? Because people Apple fans claimed that the Mac vs. PC ads were a hit, the series won a number of awards, analysts said it put Apple in the spotlight leading to their market position today. And yet, when Microsoft played nice, and put out the I'm A PC ads, they were slammed, you had people on the internet stalking the people in those ads - they had to publish the real name, address, and profession of Lauren. Search for Lauren i'm a pc and the first hit has the title "I'm Lauren, I'm A PC and I'm A Paid Actress!" on a web site called iPhoneSavior (no, Apple fanboys don't have a Apple is god complex).

Other companies are nasty and bash Microsoft at will, they succeed and are cheered for it. Microsoft plays nice, and they are bashed even more because of it. If you can't beat em, join em. Time for the gloves to come off.

SoylentG said,

Really? Because people Apple fans claimed that the Mac vs. PC ads were a hit, the series won a number of awards, analysts said it put Apple in the spotlight leading to their market position today. And yet, when Microsoft played nice, and put out the I'm A PC ads, they were slammed, you had people on the internet stalking the people in those ads - they had to publish the real name, address, and profession of Lauren. Search for Lauren i'm a pc and the first hit has the title "I'm Lauren, I'm A PC and I'm A Paid Actress!" on a web site called iPhoneSavior (no, Apple fanboys don't have a Apple is god complex).

First and foremost MS never worn gloves so there is nothing to take off.
As for your comments about Apple..... those ads were well made therefore effective.
These kind of twitter comments, either orchestrated or, even worse, compulsive are not effective.
I stated that "such reactions", intended solely as the comments themselves were counterproductive etc.
If MS wants to bash other companies they should hire people capable to deliver effective massages as part of a strategy, not letting loose whiners.
Simple as that.....

Fritzly said,

First and foremost MS never worn gloves so there is nothing to take off.


OK, I guess you do not get the concept of the metaphor...


As for your comments about Apple..... those ads were well made therefore effective.
These kind of twitter comments, either orchestrated or, even worse, compulsive are not effective.

So in other words, attacking is bad and should not be done unless if you are a company spending millions on an advertisement campaign attacking your competition for spending millions on advertising because those ads are good and you like seeing those types of attacks.



I stated that "such reactions", intended solely as the comments themselves were counterproductive etc.
If MS wants to bash other companies they should hire people capable to deliver effective massages as part of a strategy, not letting loose whiners.
Simple as that.....

Again, bashing your competition is bad, unless there is millions spent on the bashing, then it is perfectly fine. But a quick, one off comment that nobody would have seen (vs the millions that saw the Apple commercials) if it were not for the blogosphere having a fit because Microsoft said something that did not praise a company that is stealing a tagline of Microsoft's, is bad.

SoylentG said,

...

Its Microsoft, people are born with this hatred and otherwise spoonfed with it.
I was on the MS bashing side for quite a while too. Thinking they are the biggest *******s of the tech world. While actually they are not. They have their dirty tactics off course. But they have brought us more good things then Apple and Google together and are in general quite a friendly giant.

SoylentG said,

OK, I guess you do not get the concept of the metaphor...


So in other words, attacking is bad and should not be done unless if you are a company spending millions on an advertisement campaign attacking your competition for spending millions on advertising because those ads are good and you like seeing those types of attacks.

Again, bashing your competition is bad, unless there is millions spent on the bashing, then it is perfectly fine. But a quick, one off comment that nobody would have seen (vs the millions that saw the Apple commercials) if it were not for the blogosphere having a fit because Microsoft said something that did not praise a company that is stealing a tagline of Microsoft's, is bad.

Actuaslly the concept is simple if you want to do something do it right, otherwise is better and safer to abstain.......

I do not care if MS or Apple or whichever other company; I am not a zealot, I am agnostic and this is just a simple, basic rule that applies to business and personal life.

Shadowzz said,

Its Microsoft, people are born with this hatred and otherwise spoonfed with it.
I was on the MS bashing side for quite a while too. Thinking they are the biggest *******s of the tech world. While actually they are not. They have their dirty tactics off course. But they have brought us more good things then Apple and Google together and are in general quite a friendly giant.

Interesting: scanning the posts on Neowin I see a lot of Apple and Google haters as well.
Personally all kinds of zealots and whiners make me smile therefore I hope people will not stop blindly incensing a company and, blindly as well, bashing others...

Fritzly said,

Actuaslly the concept is simple if you want to do something do it right, otherwise is better and safer to abstain.......

I do not care if MS or Apple or whichever other company; I am not a zealot, I am agnostic and this is just a simple, basic rule that applies to business and personal life.

You claim it, but yet you seem to approve of negative commercials from one company, but condemn one tweet that is negative. Could it be because you are susceptible to marketing material that is glitzy, highly produced, funded by millions of dollars, and portrayed by d-class "celebrities" telling you what to do rather than thinking on your own?

Remember, think different.

SoylentG said,

Really? Because people Apple fans claimed that the Mac vs. PC ads were a hit, the series won a number of awards, analysts said it put Apple in the spotlight leading to their market position today.

...of less than 10% of the personal computer market?

technikal said,

...of less than 10% of the personal computer market?

Those commercials were not just about PCs. It was mostly about "slamming" (btw, surprised nobody noticed yet that John switched from slam to bash as the word of choice) the competition without really talking about products. Earlier in this thread I mentioned a commercial about spending millions on marketing, and there is another article on the front page about Apple marketing. That commercial (the one where PC was counting out money, putting a little bit aside for fixing problems with a lot going to marketing) was a highly polished, highly produced commercial attacking Microsoft for marketing their products. And yet, Apple is primarily a marketing company that has a side business of selling computers and phones. If it were for those commercials, giving Apple exposure through their negativeness, would iPhone be such a success? Their computers did climb in marketshare, but not much because Windows was too entrenched. But how many people did you see carrying Mac laptops before those commercials started, and how many did you see when they ended?

SoylentG said,

You claim it, but yet you seem to approve of negative commercials from one company, but condemn one tweet that is negative. Could it be because you are susceptible to marketing material that is glitzy, highly produced, funded by millions of dollars, and portrayed by d-class "celebrities" telling you what to do rather than thinking on your own?

Remember, think different.

You are entitled and free to speculate as much as you wish, I am sure you know that sophism is an ancient art, but.... you have to do it based on what I said, not your extrapolations.
So I reiterate to you that my point is not focused on the legitimacy or the correctness of certain actions or behaviours; my simple, primordial if you want, statement is:
If you decide to take a course of action, plan and execute it in the right way.
Again this apply to individuals, corporations etc. etc.
As for the concept of negative commercials I do know that they do not affect me personally in the way they are intended, actually quite the opposite, but, at the same time, I am aware of their effectiveness on a quite large segment of the population therefore the reason for their existence and companies using them.
Again the crucial point is to hire people able to engineer a successful strategy: having some executives twitting some statements is, IMO, not a successful one.
And this regardless of which companies such executives work for.

SoylentG said,
So a company uses the same idea that Microsoft has in their phone (I am not saying stealing the idea, but using the same idea), and then steals (yes, in this case steals) Microsoft's own tag line for that feature, and Microsoft should just sit back and not say a thing? If this were a certain other company we would have the fanboys racing to the internet demanding lawsuits be filed immediately to stop the grave injustice. But instead of suing, Microsoft just says "welcome to the party, we have had it for years, you should try ours" and that is bad?

Love them or hate them, Facebook does it better. Does Microsoft have a trademark on that line? Do they own that slogan?

As much as I think the Facebook Skin is retarded....

Shouldn't people at Microsoft kind of support this since MS and FB are somewhat partners ?

ShareShiz said,
As much as I think the Facebook Skin is retarded....

Shouldn't people at Microsoft kind of support this since MS and FB are somewhat partners ?


seeing how FB has pretty much ignored Microsoft's and Nokia's plea to bring Instagram and a official Facebook app to Windows Phone/8/RT...
...nah.

ShareShiz said,
As much as I think the Facebook Skin is retarded....

Shouldn't people at Microsoft kind of support this since MS and FB are somewhat partners ?


Microsoft has tried to help/support Facebook numerous times. Facebook constantly basically says "F you MS"..
Then they basically copy-paste features from Windows Phone and shout its a whole new thing, innovate etc.