Mozilla VP: Flash is on the way out

The days of Adobe's Flash plug-in dominating large parts of the web are numbered, according to Mozilla VP of products Jay Sullivan.

Speaking to Fast Company, Mr Sullivan said a move away from Flash would be an escape from the ''plug-in prison.'' In the long run, a shift to HTML5 would necessitate a move away from Flash, he said.

''A lot of it has to do with HTML5. With Firefox 4, Internet Explorer 9, and Chrome, to the extent that we provide functionality in enough browsers, then the developers will switch over to HTML5, especially in mobile, where you can't have Flash popping up on every page just to do some little animation. The idea that you'd have to embed an entire instance of the Flash player just to play a 30 second audio clip? It's crazy,'' he said.

Mr Sullivan's opposition to Flash is hardly a secret; he last year told The Register that Mozilla ''really believed'' in HTML standards and the company would be focusing its efforts accordingly.

Fast Company pointed out Mozilla's moves to isolate Flash from the rest of Firefox after a review of crash data found Adobe's plug-in brought down the browser more often than any other. Ironically, ZDNet reported yesterday that users of Google's Chrome browser were experiencing constant crashing of the Flash plug-in - which is built into Chrome - after updating to version 10 of the browser.

In a lengthy forum thread, users have reported success after disabling the built-in plug-in and relying on a newer, external version used by other browsers including Firefox. In the same thread, Google employee ''Toni'' has assured users the search giant is looking into the issue. In the Register interview, Mr Sullivan said Mozilla had ruled out building Flash into Firefox for fear of stability issues.

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1st - This seems like a way to just get attention on the FF camp.
2nd - Everyone wants to hate on Flash yet HTML5 is not quite there yet. I mean you can do a lot of things rather than Flash it but you still need flash to do some other stuff and that does not change for a while.
3rd - So we escape plugin hell? Right so we still live in Webstandards Implementation hell, which is basically what Flash helped to stave off for media. And in a time where we have many browsers with HTML5 and doing their own versions... we will have Implementation hell back on with full force. I still see websites that don't look the same regarding layout cross-browser... it hurts... but flash looks like Flash every where and for the things it is appropriate for... well then...
Finally - Adobe will have tools for HTML5, so they are not sleeping on it... so I'm tired of hearing people hate on Flash. They are forgetting that flash helped get us this far...

eviltwigflipper said,
This coming from a guy who's product is on the way out, flash isn't going anywhere obviously he hasn't heard of scaleform before.

Probably Adobe is smarter than you, they see the future and are giving up on flash :

Adobe Gives In To Apple, Releases Flash-to-HTML Converter

Adobe has finally given in to the inevitable: a new tool will convert Flash files to HTML5 so they can run on Apple devices like the iPad and iPhone.
The tool will help advertisers and Web sites who have already made big investments in Flash, but it's not going to keep developers from defecting -- especially if they're making mobile apps.....So Adobe has created an end-around and released a tool called Wallaby that will let developers convert Flash to HTML5, which can run in the Safari browser used by Apple devices....

http://www.businessinsider.com...sh-to-html-converter-2011-3

alexalex said,

Probably Adobe is smarter than you, they see the future and are giving up on flash :

Adobe Gives In To Apple, Releases Flash-to-HTML Converter

They aren't giving up on flash, flash as a web based standard isn't going anywhere anytime soon and your basis for your statement is based on a tool that converts flash files to a format that doesn't even have finalized specs yet doesn't mean adobe is giving up on anything they are simply allowing developers that are experimenting with HTML5 to be able to use the Flash IDE to build there website, or completely switch over if they wanted too. Flash is very bulky and I agree the IDE needs a lot of work, but it works uniformally across every browser that supports it, HTML5 sites will suffer from the same problems most websites have today and thats uniformity across multiple browsers.

Now flash as a gaming standard will not go anywhere for some time, Scaleform 4.0 just came out and has support for AS 3.0, and just got bought out by Autodesk. Autodesk wouldn't have bought out Scaleform if they thought Flash was going to die out as a game based UI standard, and they are smarter than you and Apple combined .

I can't even imagine a Scaleform like middleware API that used HTML and JavaScript...that would just be painful .

Flash is not going anywhere, it is going to stay. Furthermore, if something is to happen, Adobe would develop something better:
Adoble HTML Player, or something like that....
Remember, Flash can be exported to HTML 5, and Adobe is not going to let one of their major programs (Adobe Flash and Flash Builder) go to crap, they may even change their name to: Adobe Animation or Animation Builder, so it can catch up with the standards.
Just saying/IMO.

zikalify said,
Seems FireFox ought to sort out its html5 support, if you run this browser you notice that on http://www.html5test.com its low compared to chrome.

http://www.rpm-productions.org...vschromevsfx_html5score.png
true, but going through the results... its a little biased tho.

Plus allot of HTML5 features arent even listed for IE9. but might have a reason. not sure. It does list Elements eventho it has 0/4.

haha just used in maxthon with the Trident renderer (which basically is IE9) and set user-agent to chrome, it just gets 32 points with no bonus points.....

Edited by ShadowMajestic, Mar 15 2011, 9:58pm :

Until the HTML5 browser market share rises up high enough, I can't see a reason for me to stop using Flash/Silverlight plugins for Video/Audio streams.

The guy is a troll.
Mozilla's Firefox cannot even play all the media formats Adobe Flash can.
They are flaming Adobe Flash but offer only inferior solutions themselves.

Udedenkz said,
The guy is a troll.
Mozilla's Firefox cannot even play all the media formats Adobe Flash can.
They are flaming Adobe Flash but offer only inferior solutions themselves.

This is not a quantity contests, its security and stability reasons. And why exactly you are comparing firefox with flash? they have nothing in common to compare

AKLP said,

why exactly you are comparing firefox with flash? they have nothing in common to compare

Thats what the article is about.

Udedenkz said,

Thats what the article is about.

Support may be less, but security and stability are ALLOT more.
either fix up flash to be a decent platform or get rid of it. for me it caused almost every crash on any browser i ever used >.>

Shadowzz said,

Support may be less, but security and stability are ALLOT more.
either fix up flash to be a decent platform or get rid of it. for me it caused almost every crash on any browser i ever used >.>

There are only two real issues with Adobe Flash,
- GPU is only utilized for video. Animation and Games are highly CPU dependent.
- Without an h264 supporting GPU, a highly inefficient CPU codec is used. 20x-30x worse than Haali Renderer + CoreAVC (which would allow 1080p youtube videos to run on 2.1 Ghz Single Core CPU).

I didn't have any stability issues with Adobe Flash. Additionally, security issues simply require updating from time to time. Neither is an issue.

The simple truth is, HTML5 is not equivalent in gaming to Adobe Flash, and -for media- FF4 does not support the most popular video and audio formats whereas Adobe Flash does.

I'm surfing the web with Chrome, really smooth, then i enter a page with some kind of video, and as soon i click on the play button, the CPU load start kickin', fans get noisy, and since Chrome 10, 2-3 times at week Flash crashes, but rarely Chrome go down.

Flash it's a good thing for WEB Design and games, but to play some seconds of video?

Flash will stay for games. But yep i agree for the other things it will enventually be phased out.

LaP said,
Flash will stay for games. But yep i agree for the other things it will enventually be phased out.

Nope, games are switching to HTML5 too

Alansonit said,
You gotta feel for Adobe though. Major part of their business become obsolete.

Adapt and evolve, like the rest of us. New business opportunities. Interactive media authoring tool for HTML5?

Northgrove said,

Adapt and evolve, like the rest of us. New business opportunities. Interactive media authoring tool for HTML5?

+1
There are already 3rd party applications that convert basic flash to html/javascript animations. If Adobe where to make a professional tool that did that but actually converted everything to HTML5, they would be able to be able to stay in the game until the next big thing atleast

Alansonit said,
You gotta feel for Adobe though. Major part of their business become obsolete.

Well, they can still continue making their horribly slow and insecure PDF reader

Alansonit said,
You gotta feel for Adobe though. Major part of their business become obsolete.

It's not going to happen overnight. Besides, they'll just rewrite their tools to work with HTML 5. That's where they make their money anyway.

Alansonit said,
You gotta feel for Adobe though. Major part of their business become obsolete.

Why? It's not like they haven't made their billions...

Leonick said,

Well, they can still continue making their horribly slow and insecure PDF reader
i think thats on its way out too, as safari and chrome have built in readers (yay! rip reader!)

NPGMBR said,
Sure gives Apple's reject of Flash a lot of credibility!

I think AnandTech's battery test of the new Macbook air did pretty well to add credibility to that, with flash installed the battery lasted 20% shorter than the same webbrowsing test without flash...

Macworld SE recently did a test with the Macbook Air versus the iPad, both were set on playing video from SVT play (swedish television online), the Macbook lasted 3 hours much less claimed battery life during normal use, the ipad lasted 11 hours, that's one hour more than claimed for normal use...

I've developed in Flash for over 9 years in one way or another. I can't wait for it to die off, or at least become insignificant.

njlouch said,
I've developed in Flash for over 9 years in one way or another. I can't wait for it to die off, or at least become insignificant.

Agreed. It's pretty crazy that many parts of the web today assume you use Flash, and in turn Flash is designed by someone else than who made your browser and knew how to best work with that. Canvas is a godsend in comparison. No more "black boxes" to the browser where performance and security holes are sent to (unless Flash is sandboxed, but only Chrome does that today).

As a web developer, I'd like to see the success of HTML5 in browsers over flash for stability if anything. I've delved into flash a bit, and honestly it's not for me. I would rather learn a little more HTML rather than sitting down and learning Actionscript3 (even though I realize I would benefit from knowing both).

Of course its on its way out, but it will still be around for a couple of years at least. Whilst HTML5 might be very good I think there is room for a similar product to flash with more mainstream appeal but less power hungry for mobile devices, which is going to be the main driver for changes

Teebor said,
Of course its on its way out, but it will still be around for a couple of years at least. Whilst HTML5 might be very good I think there is room for a similar product to flash with more mainstream appeal but less power hungry for mobile devices, which is going to be the main driver for changes

silverlight?

Shadowzz said,

silverlight?

If silverlight was cross-os then sure, but those of us who use any kind of Unix based OS are stuck with a sad excuse for a port called Moonlight which is way behind on support for newer Silverlight features and capabilities.