New MacBook Air ships without Adobe Flash

In a slight surprise to some users, although not to too many in the tech world, Apple taking is their mission of adding iPad features into the Macbook Air to the extreme by shipping it without Adobe Flash support pre-installed. This is unlike previous releases of both Mac hardware and the OS X software that had a tendency to come with Adobe Flash already installed as a plug-in for Safari. Apple has, in many peoples eyes, seen it fit to increase its war with the company by doing this. 

I went into the Apple store myself today to try out the new MacBook Air and can confirm that Adobe flash wasn't installed, but a helpful staff member went ahead and installed it for me straight away when I asked about it and played dumb. Nothing else has changed, though. You can still happily install the software yourself if you desire, but Apple has clearly decided to try and move away from the pre-installed route, probably to try and see if users will even bother installing it themselves.

It is currently unknown whether Apple will continue this trend when they release other new hardware (other than the obvious lack on the iPad and iPhone) and if it will also no longer ship Flash with OS X 10.7 Lion in its summer release next year.

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Most things like Flash and Java USUALLY need updating anyway when you first switch on a PC or Mac that you've bought, which is basically you downloading and installing a full version of it anyway... So, there's not really much that the user would have to alter behaviour-wise.

chadlachlanross said,
Why preinstall it anyway?

Be able to run stuff out of the box maybe? I don't know. I honestly like my OS without Java, Flash, etc by default.

SH3K0 said,
This is blown out of proportion. I don't recall Windows XP, Vista nor 7 with Flash preloaded.

I Do recall OSX previously shipping with it, marking a change, and a major one at that... not necessarily a bad change, but defiantly news worthy

GEIST said,
I am looking forward to reading this piece of relevant news every single day for weeks to come.

You're not required to click the reply button. There are other news articles.

rajputwarrior said,
you guys are reposting this FUD too? windows OEM computers don't come with flash either...

I don't think it's meant to be FUD, just news since it apparently came with OS X previously. And no versions of Windows come with Flash anymore.

From what I've seen in demos, HTML 5 and Canvas is making the need for Flash and other 3rd party plugins obsolete. Flash is crap anyway, right now my laptop is running at 38 celsius, if I were to bring up Hulu and watch a tv show for 10 minutes, I'd be topping 80-90.

CoMMo said,
From what I've seen in demos, HTML 5 and Canvas is making the need for Flash and other 3rd party plugins obsolete. Flash is crap anyway, right now my laptop is running at 38 celsius, if I were to bring up Hulu and watch a tv show for 10 minutes, I'd be topping 80-90.

Then get a better laptop. maybe one that allows hardware acceleration. Mine doesn't have that problem.

When are you guys going to learn. The reason Flash sucks on the Mac is Apple didn't allow Adobe to use hardware acceleration for the flash rendering. HA allows the code to us both the CPU and GPU to handle the code. Apple doesn't allow this and on macs the CPU has to do all the work. Flash doesn't suck on Windows bec, Microsoft gave Adobe the API's needed for HA.

Yes Flash isn't perfect, but then if you hamper its needs even further you simply make it worse. Its one thing to say flash sucks, but quite another when Apple is the main cause for YORU horrible experience. One reason I hate Macs.

TechieXP said,

Then get a better laptop. maybe one that allows hardware acceleration. Mine doesn't have that problem.

When are you guys going to learn. The reason Flash sucks on the Mac is Apple didn't allow Adobe to use hardware acceleration for the flash rendering. HA allows the code to us both the CPU and GPU to handle the code. Apple doesn't allow this and on macs the CPU has to do all the work. Flash doesn't suck on Windows bec, Microsoft gave Adobe the API's needed for HA.

Yes Flash isn't perfect, but then if you hamper its needs even further you simply make it worse. Its one thing to say flash sucks, but quite another when Apple is the main cause for YORU horrible experience. One reason I hate Macs.


One flaw with your argument: Flash uses hardware acceleration on OS X. Apple opened it up for them. And it still runs like crap.

TechieXP said,

Then get a better laptop. maybe one that allows hardware acceleration. Mine doesn't have that problem.

When are you guys going to learn. The reason Flash sucks on the Mac is Apple didn't allow Adobe to use hardware acceleration for the flash rendering. HA allows the code to us both the CPU and GPU to handle the code. Apple doesn't allow this and on macs the CPU has to do all the work. Flash doesn't suck on Windows bec, Microsoft gave Adobe the API's needed for HA.

Yes Flash isn't perfect, but then if you hamper its needs even further you simply make it worse. Its one thing to say flash sucks, but quite another when Apple is the main cause for YORU horrible experience. One reason I hate Macs.

I don't use a MAC, I run Linux because I refuse to be tied down by a corporation that doesn't allow me to modify the operating system files to suit my needs. That's like selling me a car and then telling me I'm not allowed to change my own oil.

2.2 Ghz AMD Turion X2 64 processor

I should be able to watch videos on Hulu without my computer overheating, and Linux is open source, so EVERYBODY has access to anything they want to make their software run optimally. I'm even using the proprietary ATI drivers for my video card to get the performance I want. Flash just sucks on everything except Window$. Using Youtube's HTML5 pages in lieu of flash(http://www.youtube.com/html5), I can watch videos for hours and have no problems.

Edited by Gerowen, Oct 21 2010, 7:18pm :

CoMMo said,
From what I've seen in demos, HTML 5 and Canvas is making the need for Flash and other 3rd party plugins obsolete. Flash is crap anyway, right now my laptop is running at 38 celsius, if I were to bring up Hulu and watch a tv show for 10 minutes, I'd be topping 80-90.

is HTML five capable of producing the same basic effects of a flash app? yes and no...there are different things... however, Flash has a front-to-back devleopment environment thousands to hundreds of thousands of people are able to produce commercial level products with...while HTML 5 has... a bunch of proof of concept demos and maybe a basic dev envriomnt depending...

TechieXP said,

Then get a better laptop. maybe one that allows hardware acceleration. Mine doesn't have that problem.

When are you guys going to learn. The reason Flash sucks on the Mac is Apple didn't allow Adobe to use hardware acceleration for the flash rendering. HA allows the code to us both the CPU and GPU to handle the code. Apple doesn't allow this and on macs the CPU has to do all the work. Flash doesn't suck on Windows bec, Microsoft gave Adobe the API's needed for HA.

Yes Flash isn't perfect, but then if you hamper its needs even further you simply make it worse. Its one thing to say flash sucks, but quite another when Apple is the main cause for YORU horrible experience. One reason I hate Macs.

When are you going to learn. Flash sucks on everything except Windows.

AgentGray said,

is HTML five capable of producing the same basic effects of a flash app? yes and no...there are different things... however, Flash has a front-to-back devleopment environment thousands to hundreds of thousands of people are able to produce commercial level products with...while HTML 5 has... a bunch of proof of concept demos and maybe a basic dev envriomnt depending...

A valid point I can agree with. Maybe I can just continue to hope that Adobe will remedy the problem with CPU consumption on non-Windows machines until HTML5 becomes fully implemented and supported in all modern browsers and gets beyond this stage of introduction. On topic of the discussion, I'd like to see the statistic of how many people actually go manually download flash and how many don't bother after a few months of sale of these machines.

tomjol said,

When are you going to learn. Flash sucks on everything except Windows.


This.
Adobe Flash = Flawless 1080p h264 playback on a netbook.

It has no acceleration for anything else than h264 video.
Some flash video apps are created by braindead morons - i.e. VP6/8, obviously VP6/8 video will lagg like hell on anything but high end Core 2's and up.

Also, there is no acceleration for anything BUT h264 video. Flash doesn't even use the GPU for smooth edges of its vector graphics!

Sadly there is no better alternative for vector animations, games, etc.

[quote=CoMMo said,]I don't use a MAC, I run Linux because I refuse to be tied down by a corporation that doesn't allow me to modify the operating system files to suit my needs. That's like selling me a car and then telling me I'm not allowed to change my own oil.

2.2 Ghz AMD Turion X2 64 processor

I should be able to watch videos on Hulu without my computer overheating, and Linux is open source, so EVERYBODY has access to anything they want to make their software run optimally. I'm even using the proprietary ATI drivers for my video card to get the performance I want. Flash just sucks on everything except Window$. Using Youtube's HTML5 pages in lieu of flash(http://www.youtube.com/html5), I can watch videos for hours and have no problems./quote]

How pathetic, "look at me! I'm raging against the machine! I'm such a rebel!" I've never had a problem with Flash 'overheating' my computer - right now my iMac is sitting at a cool 36 Degrees Celsius with a couple of Flash objects running. Sorry, it has nothing to do with Flash and everything to do with you.

premedios said,
So what if it doesn't ship with Adobe Flash!? What's this obsession with Adobe Flash!?!
Apparently some folk can't use their computers *without* it :-|

premedios said,
So what if it doesn't ship with Adobe Flash!? What's this obsession with Adobe Flash!?!

no more "hacked in seconds" news

W7 ships without Flash and no one even notices, MBA ships without Flash and suddenly Jobs' bloodlust is unquenchable... amazing.

I think the author of the article hit the nail on the head, though. I suspect Apple is going to see how many users even bother to install Flash (or notice it's missing at all). I don't use Flash sites often, and the heat on my MBP is usually the tip-off that a Flash-enabled site is running.

vince.macintyre said,
W7 ships without Flash and no one even notices, MBA ships without Flash and suddenly Jobs' bloodlust is unquenchable... amazing.

I think the author of the article hit the nail on the head, though. I suspect Apple is going to see how many users even bother to install Flash (or notice it's missing at all). I don't use Flash sites often, and the heat on my MBP is usually the tip-off that a Flash-enabled site is running.


bloodlsut? i've seen one negative post, and they correctly pointed ut the lack of thrid party software in windows isn't microssoft's choice.

vince.macintyre said,
W7 ships without Flash and no one even notices, MBA ships without Flash and suddenly Jobs' bloodlust is unquenchable... amazing.

I think the author of the article hit the nail on the head, though. I suspect Apple is going to see how many users even bother to install Flash (or notice it's missing at all). I don't use Flash sites often, and the heat on my MBP is usually the tip-off that a Flash-enabled site is running.


Drama queen much? There's no mention of Jobs having blood lust. Maybe some comments by a few (wrong) people but no blood lust in the article or anything close.

Oh no, however will users get Flash now. Oh yeah, quite easily.
I don't think operating systems should come with Flash (or Java) anyway. It should be the users responsibility to install it when they want it.

virtorio said,
Oh no, however will users get Flash now. Oh yeah, quite easily.
I don't think operating systems should come with Flash (or Java) anyway. It should be the users responsibility to install it when they want it.

Or need it...

Honestly I think it's a good thing. It encourages the user to download the current version, not to carry on using the bundled one which could contain security holes.

protocol7 said,
Honestly I think it's a good thing. It encourages the user to download the current version, not to carry on using the bundled one which could contain security holes.

Yep agreed - best way in my view too

protocol7 said,
Honestly I think it's a good thing. It encourages the user to download the current version, not to carry on using the bundled one which could contain security holes.

Exactly. Apple ships Flash with unknown security holes (to them) and unable to patch them as it is no their software isn't very smart to begin with. User should know how to install this software and keep it up-to-date. There is a certain amount of hand holding that is bad for the user.

protocol7 said,
Honestly I think it's a good thing. It encourages the user to download the current version, not to carry on using the bundled one which could contain security holes.

Yup. Flash should die. True web experience must not involve reliance on 3rd party plugins. This applies equally to silverlight and quicktime.

protocol7 said,
Honestly I think it's a good thing. It encourages the user to download the current version, not to carry on using the bundled one which could contain security holes.

This is a flawed argument. Technically then, the new computer is almost always going to ship without the latest OS X updates, so therefore they are just as exposed, if not even more.

This is clearly Apple's way of trying to push Adobe out.

Shadrack said,
Exactly. Apple ships Flash with unknown security holes (to them) and unable to patch them as it is no their software isn't very smart to begin with. User should know how to install this software and keep it up-to-date. There is a certain amount of hand holding that is bad for the user.

Will Adobe eventually include a service running in the background to check for updated plugins? it would be nice if Safari included a feature that checked for new versions of the plugin in the same way that extensions are checked for. Doing that would definitely improve the security by ensuring people are always running the most stable and secure version of Flash available.

Gabe3 said,
I don't think windows 7 comes with flash either

It doesn't. As far as I recall Windows doesn't include any third-party applications or frameworks. It doesn't even come with mail or chat clients anymore.

GreyWolf said,

It doesn't. As far as I recall Windows doesn't include any third-party applications or frameworks. It doesn't even come with mail or chat clients anymore.

So you're saying, that when Appel images a Macbook Air drive to use in production, they can't easily include the most recent secure version of Flash with it?

If so, then you guys are really lame in saying this is a good thing.

TechieXP said,

So you're saying, that when Appel images a Macbook Air drive to use in production, they can't easily include the most recent secure version of Flash with it?

If so, then you guys are really lame in saying this is a good thing.

I don't see that anywhere in my post. Besides, OEM images are not made when you get the computer home and turn it on. They're done at the factory and often sit on the drive for some time before the computer is even sold. At the rate Adobe screws up Flash that MacBook Air's Flash would be out of date and vulnerable. AFAIK all web browsers will prompt you to download Flash if you don't have it and browse a site that uses it.

And yes, it's a good thing that Microsoft and Apple don't include potentially unnecessary software in their distributions.

GreyWolf said,
It doesn't even come with mail or chat clients anymore.
You can thank the EU for this. The Windows Live bundle has to be downloaded so they don't get their asses sued off again like they did with WMP.

GreyWolf said,

I don't see that anywhere in my post. Besides, OEM images are not made when you get the computer home and turn it on. They're done at the factory and often sit on the drive for some time before the computer is even sold. At the rate Adobe screws up Flash that MacBook Air's Flash would be out of date and vulnerable. AFAIK all web browsers will prompt you to download Flash if you don't have it and browse a site that uses it.

And yes, it's a good thing that Microsoft and Apple don't include potentially unnecessary software in their distributions.

Absolutely, I agree with this 100%.

GreyWolf said,

I don't see that anywhere in my post. Besides, OEM images are not made when you get the computer home and turn it on. They're done at the factory and often sit on the drive for some time before the computer is even sold. At the rate Adobe screws up Flash that MacBook Air's Flash would be out of date and vulnerable. AFAIK all web browsers will prompt you to download Flash if you don't have it and browse a site that uses it.

And yes, it's a good thing that Microsoft and Apple don't include potentially unnecessary software in their distributions.

+10

Gabe3 said,
I don't think windows 7 comes with flash either

Windows is having issues pre installing its own software let alone third party/non-oem software...

brent3000 said,

Windows is having issues pre installing its own software let alone third party/non-oem software...

really? never heard of that...

And so boohoo go to adobe.com and click on the flash icon..

GreyWolf said,

I don't see that anywhere in my post. Besides, OEM images are not made when you get the computer home and turn it on. They're done at the factory and often sit on the drive for some time before the computer is even sold. At the rate Adobe screws up Flash that MacBook Air's Flash would be out of date and vulnerable. AFAIK all web browsers will prompt you to download Flash if you don't have it and browse a site that uses it.

And yes, it's a good thing that Microsoft and Apple don't include potentially unnecessary software in their distributions.


This is a flawed argument. Technically then, the new computer is almost always going to ship without the latest OS X updates, so therefore they are just as exposed, if not even more.

This is clearly Apple's way of trying to push Adobe out.

TechieXP said,
So you're saying, that when Apple images a Macbook Air drive to use in production, they can't easily include the most recent secure version of Flash with it?

If so, then you guys are really lame in saying this is a good thing.

Because these images if the were provided would be out of date by the time they reach the end user; the image you receive is going to be at least 1-2 months out of date by the time it appears on the computer. You really think that every computer that ships is fresh from the factory with a fresh most up to date installation of Flash? Come on mate, use your brain!