New Microsoft ads pit Surface Pro 3 against the Macbook Air

The Surface Pro 3 may be a very impressive device in and of itself, but that’s not to say it couldn’t use some marketing. Microsoft’s latest ads pit the Surface Pro 3 against Apple’s Macbook Air.

The new commercials are comparing the latest offering from Microsoft against its main rival company, Apple. When the Surface Pro 3 was launched, Microsoft insisted on comparing it to the Macbook Pro and iPad, and now these latest videos compare it to the Macbook Air.

It’s obvious the Surface Pro 3 comes out on top, these are Microsoft commercials after all. But what’s nice here, is that some of the Surface Pro 3’s best features are shown off, including its power; the fact that it’s essentially a laptop in a tablet, and the stylus which offers a unique writing experience.

Of course the videos poke fun at Apple’s offerings, and there are many people who believe Microsoft could do better if it just focused on its own product’s features, like they did in the first ad.

What do you think, should Microsoft continue to go after their competitors? Or simply show the best it has to offer?

Source: Surface (Youtube) via WPC 

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Surface is brilliant hardware-wise, but Apple fans know their OS X is superior, thus making their entire computing experience worthwhile. Of course, this is subject to opinion - if you like Windows then ANY computer makes more sense, just like the Surface does. However, price-wise, Apple wins here.

Man, i'm a fans of Surface Pro 3. The only drawback is that its only available either in US or Europe. Come on MS, bring the Surface to the Asian Market!

Comparing apples (laptop) to oranges (tablet). Think of the Surface as a tablet, with all of the limitations associated with tablets, and most of one's disappointments disappear. Thinking that one device will handle all of one's computer needs and requirements (both personal and business) is futile.

Yep. It is all about using the right tool for the job, and each person will have their own personal preferences. MS desperately wants their tablet to be a PC (or PC to be a tablet?). The risk is that it might not be good at either, and may never be adopted widely by either community of users. Sometimes market segmentation can be a good thing.

The only thing these ads do is enrage the fanboys.

TsarNikky said,
...

Funny,

After adding an additional boot option to my SP3 (with / without Hypervisor) it does handle all of my computer needs and requirements in one portable package.

I bought a SP3 and returned it after 20 days of testing. It is a great device but it doesn't replace an a proper laptop nor a tablet because it is NOT better than either of them. If you don't have a laptop or tablet than it would be a good choice.

As a tablet:
To big and slightly too heavy. Feels awkward and uncomfortable during extended use
Gets hot and loud under certain situations (playing games like Halo SA and browsing with Metro IE)
App store is lacking
To big to be used in portrait for and e-reader

As a laptop:
The keyboard and track pad are not great
Sketchy being used on your lap or in and environment where you don't have a large flat surface to rest it on.
I felt very nervous using it in a non-office environment for fear of it falling or slipping off the surface it was resting on (see above).
1 USB port is very limiting for a "laptop"
When using the usb port with a dongle (NIC, USB hub, etc) it is awkward because it hangs off the side of the screen rather than from the flat keyboard area where you would normally have it.

My goal was to replace my Ipad Air (for tablet duties) and my old heavy Lenovo (for laptop duty) with this one device. For ME it didn't come close to replacing the Ipad so I decided to go another route and just keep 2 devices. It currently feels like a Jack of all trades and master of none right now. Maybe next year they will hit the mark with the SP4.

The biggest advantage of the SP3, beyond being excellent hardware in a super thin and light package, is that it runs Windows 8, which is way more powerful with way more software and hardware support.

_Alexander said,
One fact that no Windows fan can counter is the lack of quality in the Windows Store. Just throwing it out there.

One fact that iOS fans can"t counter is that out of the so called "1 million apps" iOS has, 999,950 of those apps nobody knows or cares about. 1 million is marketing number, no more...no less.

SJTWD said,

One fact that iOS fans can"t counter is that out of the so called "1 million apps" iOS has, 999,950 of those apps nobody knows or cares about. 1 million is marketing number, no more...no less.

And the fact that the iPad can't run OSX programs, while the Surface Pro _can_ run Windows desktop programs.

Guys, I see a lot of back and forth here about what is SP3. SP3 is the best of both worlds - it was designed for productivity and play ...all in one device. It is simple as that. Can it be better on handing both worlds? Yes, it can get better.

The ads above is pretty much comparing itself to a MBA, but don't be surprise if MS pits SP3 with an iPad with a new set of ads. MS has the luxury to do this because they have a device that they can target both markets. However, I think MS should provide an ad or ads that will target both an iPad and MBA at the same time.

It is not the best of both worlds. It is a compromise between both worlds. Not the best as a laptop and not the best as a tablet.

SP3 cannot and will not replace any of my systems until there is more hard drives space. And by then, more models from different companies will be out and a SP may not even be something I consider then.

techbeck said,
SP3 cannot and will not replace any of my systems until there is more hard drives space. And by then, more models from different companies will be out and a SP may not even be something I consider then.

I had the same feeling until 512Gb was announced; with that I could live and an external (at least 1Tb) drive hoocked to the dock!

All the gestures I want out of a touch screen I get with a good trackpad. But, I'd love a Surface Pro 3 for using Photoshop with that pen.

A touchscreen isn't just about gestures... Once you realize how much more fluid your work flow can be by taping on a screen with a pen/finger, your speed will improve.

Imagine if you used a mouse on your iPad or iPhone?

I have an HP laptop with a touchscreen and an iPad. I've never liked interacting with the iPad and I've found the exact opposite when forcing myself to use the touchscreen over the mouse/trackpad.

So the biggest selling point of Microsofts tablet is that it's really a laptop?

Oh my, oh my! Microsoft you will never learn!

parisp said,
So the biggest selling point of Microsofts tablet is that it's really a laptop?
Oh my, oh my! Microsoft you will never learn!

You know, when laptops apeared were they laptops that could replace a desktop? No! just power did not compare! yet laptops were Devices that took over a great share! When samrtphones apeared, did they took over laptops & desktops? No! just power did not compare! yet smartphones were Devices that took over a most share! When tablets apeared, did they took over smartphones & laptops & desktops? No! just power did not compare! yet tablets were Devices that took over a lot ofshare! The common fact is all are 'Devices', so SP3 is a Device that can do most what others can and even more (Stylus!). So I could imagine someone may use an SP3 (if it had LT4) and a bluetooth earpiece for whatever reason! Smartphones are getting more power, laptops are getting lighter; SP3 is a great 'Device'!

VHMP01 said,

You know, when laptops apeared were they laptops that could replace a desktop? No! just power did not compare! yet laptops were Devices that took over a great share! When samrtphones apeared, did they took over laptops & desktops? No! just power did not compare! yet smartphones were Devices that took over a most share! When tablets apeared, did they took over smartphones & laptops & desktops? No! just power did not compare! yet tablets were Devices that took over a lot ofshare! The common fact is all are 'Devices', so SP3 is a Device that can do most what others can and even more (Stylus!). So I could imagine someone may use an SP3 (if it had LT4) and a bluetooth earpiece for whatever reason! Smartphones are getting more power, laptops are getting lighter; SP3 is a great 'Device'!

Tablets and desktop/laptops are based on different computing paradigms! It's mouse/keyboard vs touchscreen.

Most windows applications are build with the keyboard and mouse in mind , although you can run these on SP3 you get very poor usability and user satisfaction hence the poor surface tablet sales!

Most tablet applications are designed from ground up specifically for being used on a touch screen and hence the focus on minimal interface and simplicity while focusing on the task the app is meant to do!

I use both a tablet and a laptop, I rely on my tablet for Internet browsing, reading , watching video tutorials and even basic accounting and word processing like preparing proposals for my clients. Coding work I do as a web developer is done on a laptop by itself or attached to a 24 inch monitor.

I totally understand MS goal of trying to be both a tablet and a laptop but it's a poor exoerience both ways, this will surely satisfy some users but that's a 5%

Yes, look at all of those monitor manufacturers rushing to get touchscreen IPS and gaming monitors out the warehouse because the demand is so high. (mucho sarcasm)

Clamdigger63 said,
I'm tired of the Apple Fanbois telling us that no one needs a Touchscreen. Apple just doesn't have one so you are out of luck.

I am tired of the 3D TV fanboys telling us that no one needs non 3D TV. They don't have 3D TV so they are out of luck.

Clamdigger63 said,
I'm tired of the Apple Fanbois telling us that no one needs a Touchscreen. Apple just doesn't have one so you are out of luck.

Vertical touch screen is a no-go.

Also, excluding the Modern UI interface (that in my case - windows 8.1, it is collecting dust, thanks classic shell), i don't find that there are enough real windows programs that uses and requires a touch screen or stylus. In fact, the real windows is still not suitable for touch screen.

Edited by Brony, Aug 11 2014, 11:27am :

Brony said,
In fact, the real windows is still not suitable for touch screen.

Weird, I've been using real Windows on a touch screen for about 10 years now and it hasn't been an issue.

JHBrown said,
Yes, look at all of those monitor manufacturers rushing to get touchscreen IPS and gaming monitors out the warehouse because the demand is so high. (mucho sarcasm)

Just because you don't want one doen't mean nobody else does. Wait till Apple brings out one and you say "WOW".

Clamdigger63 said,

Just because you don't want one doen't mean nobody else does. Wait till Apple brings out one and you say "WOW".
Many people don't want one. I'm not only speaking for myself. Even on this website members have mentioned no interest in a touchscreen. If Apple released a touchscreen Macbook, I'd continue using my Samsung Ultrabook/MacBook "non-touchscreen". Stop reaching for something that's not there!

JHBrown said,
Even on this website members have mentioned no interest in a touchscreen.

On a desktop. Mayyyybe on a laptop. (On the fence myself about that one.) On a tablet? You obviously want it. May be referring to if Apple does a Surface-like device.. ultrabook without the attached keyboard. Then you'll probably want that touchscreen.

Max Norris said,

On a desktop. Mayyyybe on a laptop. (On the fence myself about that one.) On a tablet? You obviously want it. May be referring to if Apple does a Surface-like device.. ultrabook without the attached keyboard. Then you'll probably want that touchscreen.
Yes, on a tablet of course.

JHBrown said,
Yes, look at all of those monitor manufacturers rushing to get touchscreen IPS and gaming monitors out the warehouse because the demand is so high. (mucho sarcasm)

But tell me about touch on tablets? Do they fly off the shelves? (mucho sarcasmo)... The thing is this is a Device that does much more than most others!

VHMP01 said,

But tell me about touch on tablets? Do they fly off the shelves? (mucho sarcasmo)... The thing is this is a Device that does much more than most others!
Man, your posts are really all over the place. You should proof-read before you post. We are talking about laptops and desktops. Obviously touch is important on a tablet. SMH!

JHBrown said,
Many people don't want one. I'm not only speaking for myself. Even on this website members have mentioned no interest in a touchscreen. If Apple released a touchscreen Macbook, I'd continue using my Samsung Ultrabook/MacBook "non-touchscreen". Stop reaching for something that's not there!

Sorry but I can't stand when one person claims to know what "many people" want. It is so annoying. I want a touch screen and now "actual" people who enjoy using a touch screen. You do not speak for us. Please, only speak for yourself.

JHBrown said,
.... Stop reaching for something that's not there!

Exactly what I say when I am forced to use my wife's 8.1 desktop without touch.

Now, if only I could get a decent stand-alone 23" monitor to replace her current IPS display.

SJTWD said,

Sorry but I can't stand when one person claims to know what "many people" want. It is so annoying. I want a touch screen and now "actual" people who enjoy using a touch screen. You do not speak for us. Please, only speak for yourself.
Well since I don't speak for the majority, how about running down to your local Best Buy or Micro Center and picking up that awesome touch screen IPS/Gaming monitor. Oh wait, you can't. Manufacturers have an indication of what is in demand. If people where demanding touch screen, I can guarantee you that they would be pushing this new wave. Regardless of what Microsoft has instilled in you, touch screen on desktops and laptops is in the same category as 3D on televisions. It's cool to have for that one odd time, however, everyone forgets it's there after a few weeks. I can speak for the majority since the evidence is there. Disclaimer: touch screen on devices like the Surface is wonderful. I am talking about laptops and desktops.

deadonthefloor said,

Exactly what I say when I am forced to use my wife's 8.1 desktop without touch.

Now, if only I could get a decent stand-alone 23" monitor to replace her current IPS display.

In my defense, the member you quoted stated that I don't speak for the majority. Key word is majority. In your case you find it useful. However, many people find it pointless and not ergonomic.

JHBrown said,
Well since I don't speak for the majority, how about running down to your local Best Buy or Micro Center and picking up that awesome touch screen IPS/Gaming monitor. Oh wait, you can't. Manufacturers have an indication of what is in demand. If people where demanding touch screen, I can guarantee you that they would be pushing this new wave. Regardless of what Microsoft has instilled in you, touch screen on desktops and laptops is in the same category as 3D on televisions. It's cool to have for that one odd time, however, everyone forgets it's there after a few weeks. I can speak for the majority since the evidence is there. Disclaimer: touch screen on devices like the Surface is wonderful. I am talking about laptops and desktops.

If there is such a beast as an IPS gaming monitor and someone wishes to buy it, who are you to judge what someone else purchases? Just like who is someone to tell you not to purchase what you want to purchase? To me, it doesn't matter what you think someone should buy. That is up to the individual. If there is low demand for 3D, so be it. I have a 3D tv and do love that feature. Whether you like that feature or not is irrelevant to me because I do. Point being, please don't push your preferences onto others as they are not the same as "most people" as you seem to think is the case in your own mind. It comes off as pushy and perhaps even arrogant. You can't speak for the majority or the minority. You can ONLY speak for yourself.

SJTWD said,

If there is such a beast as an IPS gaming monitor and someone wishes to buy it, who are you to judge what someone else purchases? Just like who is someone to tell you not to purchase what you want to purchase? To me, it doesn't matter what you think someone should buy. That is up to the individual. If there is low demand for 3D, so be it. I have a 3D tv and do love that feature. Whether you like that feature or not is irrelevant to me because I do. Point being, please don't push your preferences onto others as they are not the same as "most people" as you seem to think is the case in your own mind. It comes off as pushy and perhaps even arrogant. You can't speak for the majority or the minority. You can ONLY speak for yourself.
The majority of consumers do not care about touch screen on a desktop computer or laptop. Reality proves this and until proven wrong, I stand by what I said.

JHBrown said,
....

Try standing over someone's shoulder offering guided support and tell me you don't just want to reach out and just touch it yourself.

This use case alone proves the need for touch screen.

I could help people learn a lot faster without waiting for them to comprehend the UI and then track the mouse to the eye position.

JHBrown said,
The majority of consumers do not care about touch screen on a desktop computer or laptop. Reality proves this and until proven wrong, I stand by what I said.

Because you are all knowing believing you are right and everyone else is wrong. Arrogance at its finest. This is what I do know, the majority of people find you arrogant. Until proven wrong, I stand by what I say.

SJTWD said,

Because you are all knowing believing you are right and everyone else is wrong. Arrogance at its finest. This is what I do know, the majority of people find you arrogant. Until proven wrong, I stand by what I say.
I don't think you understand that I really don't care who may think I'm arrogant. Anyone here pay my mortgage? I may have seen a couple of guys here in Iraq, but other than that, I carry on. It's the internet. I respect your view as you should mine. As stated before, touch on a laptop or desktop is not ready for primetime and the majority of consumers don't want it. The Surface Pro serves as a perfect balance for a powerful touch device.

JHBrown said,
I don't think you understand that I really don't care who may think I'm arrogant. Anyone here pay my mortgage? I may have seen a couple of guys here in Iraq, but other than that, I carry on. It's the internet. I respect your view as you should mine. As stated before, touch on a laptop or desktop is not ready for primetime and the majority of consumers don't want it. The Surface Pro serves as a perfect balance for a powerful touch device.

And you continue to prove my point.

i sooo want surface pro 3. but

(i5,256GB)
Macbook Air = $1400
Surface Pro 3 = $1700

sure surface 3's screen is better and also touch enabled. yes there is the pen as well. but $1700 is lot of money :(

guru said,
i sooo want surface pro 3. but

(i5,256GB)
Macbook Air = $1400
Surface Pro 3 = $1700

sure surface 3's screen is better and also touch enabled. yes there is the pen as well. but $1700 is lot of money :(

But still a sweet deal over $1400 Air.

guru said,
i sooo want surface pro 3. but

(i5,256GB)
Macbook Air = $1400
Surface Pro 3 = $1700

sure surface 3's screen is better and also touch enabled. yes there is the pen as well. but $1700 is lot of money :(

And for an extra $300, i can buy a fairly decent tablet with a TOUCH SCREEN.

Get your #'s straight.... http://tinyurl.com/numyqu6

(i5,256GB)
Macbook Air = $1299 8GB RAM
Surface Pro 3 = $1299 8GB RAM including touch screen, pen input, pen $50 item, ability to dock with multiple screens, 2 cameras.

I thought pen input would be an afterthought, it is now what I use most. I will NEVER buy another device that does not have pen input. Game changer for me.

Touch screen is a pretty good replacement for Apples track pad.

Edited by jimmyfal, Aug 11 2014, 4:36pm :

If people want a Mac then they will get a Mac. These adverts look a bit desperate. I think that MS would do better to show how good their machine is and to stop the comparisons. Its like MS has no faith in their machine standing alone and for itself.

derekaw said,
If people want a Mac then they will get a Mac. These adverts look a bit desperate. I think that MS would do better to show how good their machine is and to stop the comparisons. Its like MS has no faith in their machine standing alone and for itself.

But when Apple did the MAC vs PC it was 'Magically' brilliant marketing right? What about Applets beginigs critizicing IBM, ironically Apple is now planning to team up with guess who; IBM. talk about looking desperate! Hahaha!

VHMP01 said,

But when Apple did the MAC vs PC it was 'Magically' brilliant marketing right? What about Applets beginigs critizicing IBM, ironically Apple is now planning to team up with guess who; IBM. talk about looking desperate! Hahaha!

Those old adverts have been and gone, that was a long time ago. If Microsofts new strategy is to copy Apples old strategy then its even worse, the point is that if Surface is worth anything to anyone then it should stand up for itself.

Apple and IBM teaming up has something to offer the corporate market, something that neither can do alone, something that Microsoft can't do itself with phones or tablets. Windows Phone is about 3% marketshare after about 4 years. For most smart companies who won't throw money away its already time to pack up.

To be fair to the Air, it's now a pretty old device and due an overhaul - lets see how they compare once this fabled 12" Air with Retina Display sees the light of day.

Of course it won't have a touch screen but I'm getting a bit bored of seeing 'touch screens' being used as some sort of crux against competing products. If Apple felt a touch screen was a good idea for the Air, they'd put one in. Personally I'm not even slightly convinced that a touch screen is a killer feature - it works in a tablet, but on laptop devices there is absolutely no point.

Chicane-UK said,
To be fair to the Air, it's now a pretty old device and due an overhaul - lets see how they compare once this fabled 12" Air with Retina Display sees the light of day.

Of course it won't have a touch screen but I'm getting a bit bored of seeing 'touch screens' being used as some sort of crux against competing products. If Apple felt a touch screen was a good idea for the Air, they'd put one in. Personally I'm not even slightly convinced that a touch screen is a killer feature - it works in a tablet, but on laptop devices there is absolutely no point.


Not when SP3 used for note taking and tablet usage.

minster11 said,

Not when SP3 used for note taking and tablet usage.

I'm not sure if I'm in the minority or not but I can type a lot faster than I can write, so find it easier to type notes rather than write them.. so 'note taking' on a tablet would be a backwards step for me.

" but I'm getting a bit bored of seeing 'touch screens' being used as some sort of crux against competing products. If Apple felt a touch screen was a good idea for the Air, they'd put one in. Personally I'm not even slightly convinced that a touch screen is a killer feature - it works in a tablet, but on laptop devices there is absolutely no point. [/quote]

LOL Good One. What you mean is that Tim hasn't told you that you need one yet.

minster11 said,

Not when SP3 used for note taking and tablet usage.
Well then it's a whole different comparison. In note taking mode and tablet mode the two should not be compared. The Surface is in a market that competes with other Windows tablets and laptops. Theses two devices are so different that comparing them is silly.

Clamdigger63 said,

LOL Good One. What you mean is that Tim hasn't told you that you need one yet.

Come on.. you've got to try a bit harder with your trolling. I'm a tech enthusiast as much as anyone else on this site, and though it maybe difficult for you to understand, there are plenty of customers who are quite capable of making purchasing decisions without needing Apple to dictate their requirements to them. There are plenty of folks who are slave to Apple products, but there are plenty of smart tech savvy folks who just prefer them - I know it's a concept you may struggle to understand though.

I simply don't find touch screens a big deal. I know I'm not alone. And arguably the majority of the market doesn't find it that big a deal as I don't see (beyond regular tablets) laptops with touchscreens or these cross over devices like Surface Pro flying off the shelves.

What else do you want me to say? I prefer the laptop form factor.

Chicane-UK said,

I'm not sure if I'm in the minority or not but I can type a lot faster than I can write, so find it easier to type notes rather than write them.. so 'note taking' on a tablet would be a backwards step for me.

It sort of depends on what sort of notes we're talking about here. For example, school notes, some math class equations and formulas... well I guess the SP3 would benefit with them with its pen rather than trying to find the correct symbol behind tons of menus

The only reason macbook pro/Air to have touch screen is the LCD Display should build in A8 logic board and run iOS 8 when you detach the screen. This is definitely the way to have best of both worlds without sacrificing anything.

Chicane-UK said,

And arguably the majority of the market doesn't find it that big a deal as I don't see (beyond regular tablets) laptops with touchscreens or these cross over devices like Surface Pro flying off the shelves. .

Last time I went to Best Buy (Saturday) the majority of laptops have touch screens. Which is strange if no one is buying them.

Clamdigger63 said,

Last time I went to Best Buy (Saturday) the majority of laptops have touch screens. Which is strange if no one is buying them.

As I see it, they're like 3D TV's.. the companies are making these things, to sell you new products - not because they're actually better or something you want. Ironically, in the same way that you mock Apple as telling their sheep customers which technology they think you need, it's exactly the same with this touch screen technology. Arguably 3D TV hasn't really taken off that much but plenty of people have the technology because in many cases it's all that's available or the price has been compelling enough when compared to the "old" technology.

Honestly - how many people do you know with a laptop that has a touch screen? I work in a corporate environment and have plenty of tech / geek friends.. I only know of one person with a touch screen on his recently purchased laptop but he only ended up going with that, because the non-touch version was back ordered. But he doesn't even have a touchscreen driver installed.

Clamdigger63 said,

Last time I went to Best Buy (Saturday) the majority of laptops have touch screens. Which is strange if no one is buying them.

What's also strange is that you cannot buy a decent SmartTV without 3D being included(3D another gimmick). Touchscreen on a laptop or desktop is just that, a gimmick. Now touchscreen on the Surface or any tablet is perfect. Seeing laptops at Best Buy with touch screens has nothing to do with demand. Nice try!

Master of Earth said,
The only reason macbook pro/Air to have touch screen is the LCD Display should build in A8 logic board and run iOS 8 when you detach the screen. This is definitely the way to have best of both worlds without sacrificing anything.

Exactly! You have the need of a full keyboard, get a bluetooth one, quite simple. You need external display, get one too. You need Tablet portability, use it as can be. To me this comparison still is not enough! Everything that you can do on a Mac (Pro or Air) and on an iPad, can be easily done with SP3, the thing is the whole lot more things too!

VHMP01 said,

Exactly! You have the need of a full keyboard, get a bluetooth one, quite simple. You need external display, get one too. You need Tablet portability, use it as can be. To me this comparison still is not enough! Everything that you can do on a Mac (Pro or Air) and on an iPad, can be easily done with SP3, the thing is the whole lot more things too!

The problem with SP3 is thickness and Macbook Air have the edge and unwilling to sacrifice thinness over performance. But it can easily fix it by fitting iOS logic board within the monitor and the intel cpu remain inside the keyboard. So it won't feel so much compromised like what the SP3 in order to have superb performance which quite frankly isn't anywhere close to mac pro or iMac.

Having two separate devices in one would add a lot of complexity. Complexity not really consistent with Apple's minimalist designs. There are other companies that offer that.

At the other extreme there are ASUS devices offering hybrid Windows-Android laptop/tablet/smartphones. Not a good mass market proposition in my view.

I can't help but feel that the constant mention of the touch screen makes it as though the main benefit is the touch screen with the other features being "oh, that's nice" rather than major game changers. The Surface 3 is a great device but maybe you (Microsoft) should spend time sorting out your operating system and competing against the OEM's that are doing a half baked job resulting in Windows getting a black eye.

Excellent point. I've always said that throwing in touch screen capabilities in marketing doesn't do a lot of good. Many people just don't want touch on a desktop or laptop.

JHBrown said,
Excellent point. I've always said that throwing in touch screen capabilities in marketing doesn't do a lot of good. Many people just don't want touch on a desktop or laptop.

Yes they do.

JHBrown said,
Many people just don't want touch on a desktop or laptop.

This isn't a desktop or a laptop though... it just acts like one at times. It's a tablet, touch is one of those things that are kind of required.

Clamdigger63 said,

Yes they do.

Are you seriously saying that the demand for touchscreen laptops and desktops is in high demand?

Max Norris said,

This isn't a desktop or a laptop though... it just acts like one at times. It's a tablet, touch is one of those things that are kind of required.
Max, the Surface is marketed as the laptop killer. It is a laptop and a tablet.

JHBrown said,
Max, the Surface is marketed as the laptop killer. It is a laptop and a tablet.

Keyboard isn't permanently attached. It's a tablet. That's like saying just because I plugged a keyboard into my Android tablet it's suddenly a laptop.. that's just silly. Laptop killer? Sure, I've messed with one, it's an excellent device that does the same thing in a much more convenient package. End of the day though it's still a tablet.. touch is required.

Max Norris said,

Keyboard isn't permanently attached. It's a tablet. That's like saying just because I plugged a keyboard into my Android tablet it's suddenly a laptop.. that's just silly. Laptop killer? Sure, I've messed with one, it's an excellent device that does the same thing in a much more convenient package. End of the day though it's still a tablet.. touch is required.
Max, I understand what you are saying, however, the Surface is marketed as both a laptop and tablet. Therefore labeling it as either is correct.

JHBrown said,
Max, I understand what you are saying, however, the Surface is marketed as both a laptop and tablet. Therefore labeling it as either is correct.

I don't buy into marketing, I go by what it is. Also, looking at the Microsoft Surface site right now, it doesn't say it's both. I see phrases like "The most productive tablets on the planet." "See how Surface Pro 3 can replace your laptop." "With a 12” display, Surface Pro 3 has the power of a laptop in a lightweight, versatile form." And so on... it never once says it's both. Besides, saying it's both is absurd. My desktop runs Android software and does the same thing as my tablet.. so this PC is a desktop and a tablet? Come on.

Max Norris said,

I don't buy into marketing, I go by what it is. Also, looking at the Microsoft Surface site right now, it doesn't say it's both. I see phrases like "The most productive tablets on the planet." "See how Surface Pro 3 can replace your laptop." "With a 12” display, Surface Pro 3 has the power of a laptop in a lightweight, versatile form." And so on... it never once says it's both. Besides, saying it's both is absurd. My desktop runs Android software and does the same thing as my tablet.. so this PC is a desktop and a tablet? Come on.
So if it's a tablet, wouldn't you agree that these comparison ads are quite silly?

JHBrown said,
So if it's a tablet, wouldn't you agree that these comparison ads are quite silly?

No, because it's designed to do the same job and do it better in a smaller package.. doesn't make it the same thing. Totally valid comparison.

Max Norris said,

No, because it's designed to do the same job.. doesn't make it the same thing. Totally valid comparison.
Well if it's designed to do a laptop's job, it's then a laptop. If it's designed to do a tablet's job, it's a tablet. Therefore it's both right? Just trying to make sense of this man. ;-)

JHBrown said,
Well if it's designed to do a laptop's job, it's then a laptop. If it's designed to do a tablet's job, it's a tablet. Therefore it's both right? Just trying to make sense of this man. ;-)

It's not rocket science man.. I can run desktop apps via RDP on my Android tablet/phone... doesn't make it a desktop and a tablet, it's still a just a tablet. I can run tablet apps on my desktop, doesn't make it a tablet either, still just a desktop. Surface runs tablet and desktop software.. it's still a tablet, it's form factor isn't changing, just what it does. Adding a touch screen to my desktop and then running Android stuff on it doesn't automatically make it a tablet either.. still a desktop.

Or, in other words, I can go outside and cut the grass with a pair of scissors. Just because it's doing the same thing as my lawn mower doesn't mean it is one.

Max Norris said,

It's not rocket science man.. I can run desktop apps via RDP on my Android tablet/phone... doesn't make it a desktop and a tablet, it's still a just a tablet. I can run tablet apps on my desktop, doesn't make it a tablet either, still just a desktop. Surface runs tablet and desktop software.. it's still a tablet, it's form factor isn't changing, just what it does. Adding a touch screen to my desktop and then running Android stuff on it doesn't automatically make it a tablet either.. still a desktop.

Or, in other words, I can go outside and cut the grass with a pair of scissors. Just because it's doing the same thing as my lawn mower doesn't mean it is one.

I guess we'll just disagree on the matter. ;-) I stand firm and believe that the Surface Pro and a MacBook are entirely two different systems and comparing the two in an ad is mindless.

JHBrown said,
Excellent point. I've always said that throwing in touch screen capabilities in marketing doesn't do a lot of good. Many people just don't want touch on a desktop or laptop.

Agreed - I've hung around big name retailers in NZ like Harvey Norman and sure, customers go up, touch the screen, have some fun but the big question is whether this a gimmick that gets people interested or whether it is a feature that people actually use on a regular basis once the product leaves the store. Friends and family I've known who have bought laptops with touch screens were at first impressed but months later they barely use the touch screen functionality in favour of falling back to the touch bad and keyboard instead.

JHBrown said,
Max, the Surface is marketed as the laptop killer. It is a laptop and a tablet.

Yes I Am. I'm just about to buy a new device. I'm deciding between Surface 3 and a Dell 13 Xps laptop. I looked at Apple but guess what, no touch so no buy.

Clamdigger63 said,

Yes I Am. I'm just about to buy a new device. I'm deciding between Surface 3 and a Dell 13 Xps laptop. I looked at Apple but guess what, no touch so no buy.

What?????????

Mr Nom Nom's said,
I can't help but feel that the constant mention of the touch screen makes it as though the main benefit is the touch screen with the other features being "oh, that's nice" rather than major game changers. The Surface 3 is a great device but maybe you (Microsoft) should spend time sorting out your operating system and competing against the OEM's that are doing a half baked job resulting in Windows getting a black eye.

True, the biggest short coming of MBA is Mac anf Surface is having Windows which is fairly superior OS available.

JHBrown said,
Max, I understand what you are saying, however, the Surface is marketed as both a laptop and tablet. Therefore labeling it as either is correct.

I really don't get the "is it a laptop or is it a tablet" argument. It functions superbly for both and the user simply chooses which option will best fit their specific task. All this "how is it being marketed" nonsense is irrelevant. It is both.

SJTWD said,
All this "how is it being marketed" nonsense is irrelevant. It is both.
Thats what we were debating! According to Max Norris, it is not both. Now you say it is both a laptop and desktop. I wish you all would make your mind up.

JHBrown said,
Thats what we were debating! According to Max Norris, it is not both. Now you say it is both a laptop and desktop. I wish you all would make your mind up.

Hey now don't pull me into your argument with somebody else.. I know it's a tablet. You guys can believe whatever you want.

Max Norris said,

Hey now don't pull me into your argument with somebody else.. I know it's a tablet. You guys can believe whatever you want.
LOL! See Max, this confusion is bigger than you think. I've heard many people call it a laptop. Anyway, you and I had a good debate about it last night and I'm pooped. Need a break. ;-)

JHBrown said,
LOL! See Max, this confusion is bigger than you think. I've heard many people call it a laptop. Anyway, you and I had a good debate about it last night and I'm pooped. Need a break. ;-)

Honestly, there is no confusion other than the confusion you choose to make of your own accord. Who cares if people think its a tablet or a laptop. What's important is that it fills a specific need, that is my point. JHBrown, IMO you seem to go out of your way to create the confusion where no confusion exists.

SJTWD said,

Honestly, there is no confusion other than the confusion you choose to make of your own accord. Who cares if people think its a tablet or a laptop. What's important is that it fills a specific need, that is my point. JHBrown, IMO you seem to go out of your way to create the confusion where no confusion exists.
Please go back and read the previous conversation Max and I had. He states that the Surface is "only" a tablet. You state it is a laptop. If anything you are confused on the specific usage of the device. Which is not surprising since the Surface has not caught on with consumers because of the way it is promoted in ads. No clear direction.

JHBrown said,
He states that the Surface is "only" a tablet. You state it is a laptop.

It is a tablet ;D If it were a laptop that keyboard would be permanently attached. It's not, so, tablet. I occasionally run desktop software on my tablet via RDP. I've even used a keyboard with it. It doesn't make it a desktop. I just occasionally use it like one. One of my dinosaur tablets came with XP Tablet Edition out of the box. Can attach a monitor, keyboard, mouse and runs 100% desktop software... but it's still a tablet. Surface is no different. It can possibly replace a laptop, doesn't make it one.

Max Norris said,

It is a tablet ;D If it were a laptop that keyboard would be permanently attached. It's not, so, tablet. I occasionally run desktop software on my tablet via RDP. I've even used a keyboard with it. It doesn't make it a desktop. I just occasionally use it like one. One of my dinosaur tablets came with XP Tablet Edition out of the box. Can attach a monitor, keyboard, mouse and runs 100% desktop software... but it's still a tablet. Surface is no different. It can possibly replace a laptop, doesn't make it one.
Thank you Max for chiming in. SJTWD is saying otherwise and I was only pointing him to the conversation we already had. He believes it can also be labeled a laptop which is a contradiction to what we debated last night.

JHBrown said,
Thank you Max for chiming in. SJTWD is saying otherwise and I was only pointing him to the conversation we already had.

Anytime, always happy to poke an argument to keep it going. ;)

JHBrown said,
Thank you Max for chiming in. SJTWD is saying otherwise and I was only pointing him to the conversation we already had. He believes it can also be labeled a laptop which is a contradiction to what we debated last night.

AGAIN!!! Who cares if it's a laptop, tablet, hybrid, etc.? Why JHBrown, why do you insist on beating this dead horse? I really can't figure out why this is such a critical issue for you? Are you so full of hate towards anything that isn't an Apple product that you are willing to concoct confusion? The confusion isn't with the product, the confusion is made purposely by you. If you ask me, the ads have a clear direction. Perhaps it is you that does not have a clear direction. Give it a rest already.

Edited by SJTWD, Aug 12 2014, 12:02am :

SJTWD said,

AGAIN!!! Who cares if it's a laptop, tablet, hybrid, etc.? Why JHBrown, why do you insist on beating this dead horse? I really can't figure out why this is such a critical issue for you? Are you so full of hate towards anything that isn't an Apple product that you are willing to concoct confusion? The confusion isn't with the product, the confusion is made purposely by you. If you ask me, the ads have a clear direction. Perhaps it is you that does not have a clear direction. Give it a rest already.
if you would have read this thread carefully you would have noticed not one person said anything about hating a specific product. You are confused, Max Norris has already pointed out that the Surface is not a laptop. It is strictly a tablet with additional capabilities. He also kindly pointed the facts from Microsofts website. You would love for me to spew hate on this topic, but it ain't happening. You walked in late to a debate between Max Norris and I, thought you were making some kind of point on a topic that had already been settled. In conclusion, it is you that is confused because the Surface is not a laptop. Please read Max Norris's post above if you need further clarification.

Edited by JHBrown, Aug 12 2014, 1:19am :

You just can't give it a rest can you? You really find it necessary to force feed your point home until someone gives in. No need for clarification, your arrogance is clear enough.

SJTWD said,
You just can't give it a rest can you? You really find it necessary to force feed your point home until someone gives in. No need for clarification, your arrogance is clear enough.
Perfect. I usually make sure I get my point across. Habit from 19 years in the Air Force as an NCO training knuckleheads as they enter.

I'd still rather have the MacBook just for the trackpad and keyboard alone! The Surface has its place, however, it is not a full fledge laptop killer. My Samsung Ultrabook and MacBook are still portable enough and powerful enough to get work done on the go.

JHBrown said,
I'd still rather have the MacBook just for the trackpad and keyboard alone! The Surface has its place, however, it is not a full fledge laptop killer.

Have you used the Pro 3's trackpad and keyboard? Panning is better than anything I've experienced on a Mac.

I have Brandon. The new keyboard and trackpad are much better on the new Surface. However, it still does not compare to the trackpad on a MacBook.

I also use the Surface with the touch cover and find the trackpad extremely useful and easy to work with. But just the fact that you don't need to use it and just use the touch screen makes the MacBook look pathetic in comparison. Surface has features the MacBook will never have.

Brandon Live said,

Have you used the Pro 3's trackpad and keyboard? Panning is better than anything I've experienced on a Mac.

I am (using the demo from the store) and it is a bit better than the first one (i am yet to test the second one) but it is still subpar in comparison with a real keyboard.

JHBrown said,
I'd still rather have the MacBook just for the trackpad and keyboard alone! The Surface has its place, however, it is not a full fledge laptop killer. My Samsung Ultrabook and MacBook are still portable enough and powerful enough to get work done on the go.

Blue tooth keyboard and mouse?

SJTWD said,
I also use the Surface with the touch cover and find the trackpad extremely useful and easy to work with. But just the fact that you don't need to use it and just use the touch screen makes the MacBook look pathetic in comparison. Surface has features the MacBook will never have.

Exactly! Can you imagine someone using a trackpad with iPad and still complain about the trackpad itself!

JHBrown said,
They serve different purposes. Of course it won't.

Of course it will, it already covered all the Mac Barbie Air's features plus a whole bunch more!

Brony said,
I am (using the demo from the store) and it is a bit better than the first one (i am yet to test the second one) but it is still subpar in comparison with a real keyboard.

Just get a real keyboard (Bluetooth)!

JHBrown said,
They serve different purposes. Of course it won't.

What purposes does it serve that are different from a Macbook air?

JHBrown said,
I have Brandon. The new keyboard and trackpad are much better on the new Surface. However, it still does not compare to the trackpad on a MacBook.

Why use a trackpad when you could use both a touch screen and/or the TP. It's not to bash, I'm actually curious.

JHBrown said,
I have Brandon. The new keyboard and trackpad are much better on the new Surface. However, it still does not compare to the trackpad on a MacBook.

However the touch-screen makes up for most of that... something no Mac has.

pmbAustin said,

However the touch-screen makes up for most of that... something no Mac has.

This is very debatable. It's personal preference. I find the excellent multi gestures better than a touch screen. I respect your preference.

Have the creators of the ads actually tried using a Surface on their laps (with keyboard cover attached)?

I might try this in-store tomorrow (to see how the sales assistant reacts).

The Air does have a fairly average display however.

68k said,
Have the creators of the ads actually tried using a Surface on their laps (with keyboard cover attached)?

A) A lot of people never use their laptops on their laps (mostly desks, coffee tables, etc).

B) The Pro 3 works great in such situations.

Very awkward with a laptop too, don't know anyone adult sized who actually uses a laptop in that position.. dunno about you but I'd rather just cross my leg and prop it up, or even better, find one of those new fangled table things.

Brandon Live said,

A) A lot of people never use their laptops on their laps (mostly desks, coffee tables, etc).

B) The Pro 3 works great in such situations.

A) At that size they do! I use it on the couch all the time.
B) No you need to have your legs together like a girl wearing a dress.

It's a tablet that's a tablet, great device, not made for laps

Does anyone at MS even know what they are doing anymore? They seriously cannot believe that something like a Surface Pro can be in the same class as a laptop.

Either build a tablet or proper laptop and stop with this bs noone need.

Edited by cetla, Aug 11 2014, 10:09am :

cetla said,
Does anyone at MS even know what they are doing anymore? They seriously cannot believe that something like a Surface Pro can be in the same class as a laptop.

Either build a tablet or proper laptop and stop with this bs noone need.

I'm need it and I'm getting it. It's not "bs" at all. I'm going to use it as a dev machine.

cetla said,
Does anyone at MS even know what they are doing anymore? They seriously cannot believe that something like a Surface Pro can be in the same class as a laptop.

Either build a tablet or proper laptop and stop with this bs noone need.


A device which has a fully fledged keyboard, hardware, and OS on it is not a laptop because you can remove the keyboard?

What?

I wish I could pick up a Pro 3 and use it as my dedicated work device, It'd be absolutely glorious.

Has one tried to walk a tight rope while baking cookies?! MADNESS! Everyone does this, therefore the Surface Pro 3 is a failure. [/sarcasm].

*is a Surface Pro 3 owner and has no problems using it on said lap.

Xabier Granja said,
Yes, they have, and it works quite fine in your lap.
I'll give it a try tomorrow, sitting 'ergonomically'.

68k said,
Have the creators of the ads actually tried using a Surface on their laps (with keyboard cover attached)?

Why do you need Keyboard when you're using it on laps ? Use it like an iPad which a so called necessity for people and use it like a laptop when you're using it on a desk or a hard surface. It's surprising that people criticizing ovee this so called issue.

cetla said,
Does anyone at MS even know what they are doing anymore? They seriously cannot believe that something like a Surface Pro can be in the same class as a laptop.

Either build a tablet or proper laptop and stop with this bs noone need.

The original BS Surface Pro has served me well for more than a year. And this is something I take to work everyday and even while I travel abroad. I'm always getting comments and questions about it, and I never have anything bad to say about it (other than that 3rd iteration looking really cool).

68k said,
Have the creators of the ads actually tried using a Surface on their laps (with keyboard cover attached)?
With the SP2 and SP3, it is an absolutely miserable experience to have the device on your lap with keyboard. It is a firm stand, but the device is not steady. I would much rather use a laptop on my lap than a Surface Pro 2/3.

68k said,
Have the creators of the ads actually tried using a Surface on their laps (with keyboard cover attached)?

I have used it on my lap and works just fine. Anyone starting otherwise are just going by the people who do like MS. Have you ever used a laptop on your lap?? The great drives you crazy and usually start looking for a lap table with a fan. I am not saying the SP3 is perfect but its close very close.

offroadaaron said,

A) At that size they do! I use it on the couch all the time.
B) No you need to have your legs together like a girl wearing a dress.

It's a tablet that's a tablet, great device, not made for laps

I user it with my legs crossed all the time. Your response to A) the couch you made his point. Must don't put it on their lap. Be honest, do you own one?

Klownicle said,
Has one tried to walk a tight rope while baking cookies?! MADNESS! Everyone does this, therefore the Surface Pro 3 is a failure. [/sarcasm].

*is a Surface Pro 3 owner and has no problems using it on said lap.

Wait it doesn't bake cookies... SP3 sucks!!!!! I want a machine that gives me lap dances and cookies... Hahaha!!! I love mine as well and for people that cry that the OS confusing. My 16 month daughter uses it better than adults and I didn't teach her, all self taught.

68k said,
Have the creators of the ads actually tried using a Surface on their laps (with keyboard cover attached)?

if you carry a laptop bag with you and it happens to have that hard protection (even without it) you can put the bag on your lap and the mac or windows laptop on top

68k said,
Have the creators of the ads actually tried using a Surface on their laps (with keyboard cover attached)?

I'd never use a laptop on my lap. At least with the pro 3, you can just detach the keyboard and use the pro as a tablet comfortably on your lap.

68k said,
Have the creators of the ads actually tried using a Surface on their laps (with keyboard cover attached)?

This one has way better lapability! Thats what they said anyways =).

offroadaaron said,

A) At that size they do! I use it on the couch all the time.
B) No you need to have your legs together like a girl wearing a dress.

It's a tablet that's a tablet, great device, not made for laps

Computers go on tables, where you can place them stably and have good airflow for cooling.

Laps are for cats, small dogs and girlfriends. Just not all at the same time. :-)

Brandon Live said,

A) A lot of people never use their laptops on their laps (mostly desks, coffee tables, etc).

B) The Pro 3 works great in such situations.

Yeah, but that's the only straw they have left to draw from.

duk3togo said,

I user it with my legs crossed all the time. Your response to A) the couch you made his point. Must don't put it on their lap. Be honest, do you own one?

What? Most of that made no sense. No I don't own one, I really want one but I use my laptop in bed and the couch all the time and it just wouldn't suit. Also no LTE and GPS is a put off unfortunately.

Saying that I've used one extensively and it just didn't work for me.

offroadaaron said,

What? Most of that made no sense. No I don't own one, I really want one but I use my laptop in bed and the couch all the time and it just wouldn't suit. Also no LTE and GPS is a put off unfortunately.

Saying that I've used one extensively and it just didn't work for me.

I use my Surface Pro 3 on the couch and in bed all the time. It works better than my laptop in fact, because with the laptop, the HOT part is on my legs... ugh. The SP3 is perfectly usable on the couch and in bed. Tethering to my phone makes more sense than paying for a separate LTE data plan (which is only rarely needed in my usage... Wi-Fi is almost everywhere). The lack of a GPS is literally the only ding against this great device.

Tethering is annoying and I can get shared SIM's which cost me no extra per month. If my phone dies due to battery then I have no way of tethering.

I don't have a problem with heat, the MacBook Air is a hotbox. As I said I've tested and as much as I like the SP I just can't use it the way I want to unfortunately.

offroadaaron said,

What? Most of that made no sense. No I don't own one, I really want one but I use my laptop in bed and the couch all the time and it just wouldn't suit. Also no LTE and GPS is a put off unfortunately.

Saying that I've used one extensively and it just didn't work for me.


On the bed or couch works perfectly, I know because I actually play WOW on it on the couch. You are right no lte nor GPS I don't use my tablet as a GPS but I use WiFi or Bluetooth through my my phone to get online. In the subway it's worthless to have any of it so its not priority to me. It might be for you but I am telling you the reviewers are nit picking.