New Start menu leaks in Windows build 9788

Well, it looks like the leaks are starting to flow - or else someone has decided to spend an unhealthy amount of time building an elaborate Start menu replica. As you can see in the image above, the Start menu is there but it's not all that exciting as we have seen most of this before.

We do know that this is still an early build of next generation of Windows and we will have more to report on that tomorrow. So, don't get too caught up in the minor details as there will be other enhancements to the desktop before Threshold is released.

One item about the image that was throwing off users previously is that is says Win 8.1 Pro in the bottom corner. We have spoken to a source close to Microsoft who says that this image appears to be legitimate, and that these builds inside of Microsoft still use this branding, so this is not a big deal.

This build 9788 is said to be floating around the web but has not been properly leaked for all of us to enjoy. Considering that the images are starting to surface at various points across the web, the build will likely leak in the near future.

Source: My Digital Life

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Why does the start menu get so much traction? Please also consider Windows Explorer and the potential fusion with web-based information management such as SharePoint, Google Drive, Flickr.

This hybrid start menu is a much better idea than the start screen. I don't think I'll ever understand why anyone would prefer to be whisked away to a full screen menu of ugly blocks, completely obscuring all the other stuff you were previously viewing.

With the new hybrid menu, I can see those little tiles (ugly as they are!) being useful for providing status info and such like at a glance. The jump lists are also a welcome return.

I really hope they add other power user features from the W7 start menu, such as the ability to directly access items in Control Panel and Administrative Tools with cascade menus.

Well... that's YOUR opinion. There are lots of people out there who have no issues with the new start screen or Win8 in general. ;-)

no1 said,

I really hope they add other power user features from the W7 start menu, such as the ability to directly access items in Control Panel and Administrative Tools with cascade menus.

No. Cascade menus are evil.

I find it funny that people who read and post on a tech site complain so much about a start menu and the tile screen. While I will admit the tile screen app view is a bit jumbled you rarely have to use it. It's pretty simple to pin the programs you use a lot somewhere where they are quickly accessible.

I love it all the people going mental over a start menu article. Look outside the window, go for a walk and relax. The world doesn't revolve around a damn start menu lol :)

Why's the mail icon so huge? If anything, e-mail is what's taken the greatest hit among the apps I use for my computer / smartphone these days. Social networks have essentially replaced that need for me, besides purchase receipts. Newsletters? There's RSS for that. Pull > Push. If you mail me today, chances are I'll notice it only after 15 days. Tweet or PM me on Facebook and I'll reply within 5 minutes; faster than I ever did with mail.

Oh and the Metro icons mixed up with the desktop / Windows 7-style icons in that list look horrible. I'm unsure how Microsoft will fix that though. The downsides of using two completely different looks just because the form factor is different. Yes, I understand the need for contrast and surface areas part for tablets in sunlight and part for a touch-friendly interface, but why not just give the desktop counterpart the same look & feel as Metro? Sort of a "conservative Metro" where the icon style looks the same, just not that it's tile based, but icon based. It's like Microsoft went "OK, so now we made the title bars and superbar flat... meh.. F it... That'll do"

Edited by Northgrove, Jul 14 2014, 2:41pm :

at least the screen won't turn into a mess of colored blocks when I accidentally hit the windows key.

it's bad for the eyes on a 26" monitor...

can I turn off the right side of that menu?

If you dont like it dont use it. You could alwas try the new fritOS, doritOS or tostitOS. or use the tried and trued clasics like tacOS or burritOS

I don't want the infantile Fisher Price kiddie-tiles on my desktop or my Start Menu. I want glass and transparency back on my desktop machines that can handle it without worrying about battery problems, etc.

And I want an interface that was designed by an adult who knows that OUR data (words and pictures) is what's important, not big blocky clashing color backgrounds that don't complement or rest behind ANYTHING you could possibly be looking at.

That color scheme is what we use to teach 2 year olds about color, not what adults want to use for anything serious or not.

In that screenshot, the ONLY item of interest is the photograph and it is lost in a sea of fugly candy colors and the information about the picture is on a clashing red rectangle that takes away from the image entirely. Ugh.

Honestly, it's NOT about the cheesy background color blocks, designers. It's about OUR content, not yours...

Ah, another victim of the Microsoft Upgrade Militia. Just wait for them to pack-up their 'Hi-Lux of Piety' and then re-install Windows 7 again. Keep it quite tho! ;)

FYI - Microsoft don't do product announcements on Neowin - honest!

I can easily use any of the several Start Menu replacements - Start8 and Classic Shell both more than do the job.

Personally, the main reason I don't like W8 is the entire Metro look - it's plain, blockish, and it stands out like a sore thumb compared to the several years I've enjoy working in Aero and using all the different themes to make it the way I like.

I've seen a couple of the Aero lookalikes but it's not quite the same.

If they add Aero, I'd probably go out right now and buy W8...right now it looks like I'm even passing on W9.

T

Dot Matrix said,

Where?


I think he's referring to Microsoft backtracking the bold Metro push forward in Windows 8.0. Metro's only fair chance of becoming popular was by force and Microsoft knew it, so Windows 8.0 happened. That didn't work out, and now Microsoft get that too, so Windows 8.1 is about to happen.

It won't become more prominent from here. That road has already been left and the screenshot of it is seen above.

It won't "die" though. It'll stay relevant on Windows Phone.

Northgrove said,

I think he's referring to Microsoft backtracking the bold Metro push forward in Windows 8.0. Metro's only fair chance of becoming popular was by force and Microsoft knew it, so Windows 8.0 happened. That didn't work out, and now Microsoft get that too, so Windows 8.1 is about to happen.

It won't become more prominent from here. That road has already been left and the screenshot of it is seen above.

It won't "die" though. It'll stay relevant on Windows Phone.

It's more relevant than ever. Microsoft is pushing universal apps, which are all Metro

Indoobidubly said,
They also pushed the Start Screen and backtracked on that pretty quickly.

Face it, the Start MENU is BACK, and Metro on the desktop is DEAD.

How so? Metro is very much alive on the desktop. Live Tiles are still there, and are coming to the taskbar as well. Metro applications in the form of universal apps are forming the backbone of the OS.

How is Metro alive on the desktop? Metro and the Start Screen went hand and hand and now the Start Screen is dead. The Live tiles are only "alive" in the new START MENU.

Metro apps are barely taking off. Get out of you fantasyland basement.

Indoobidubly said,
How is Metro alive on the desktop? Metro and the Start Screen went hand and hand and now the Start Screen is dead. The Live tiles are only "alive" in the new START MENU.

Metro apps are barely taking off. Get out of you fantasyland basement.

The Start Screen is far from dead. It exists on Xbox, Windows Phone, and on Windows Threshold tablets, as well as for those who enable it on the desktop. Metro apps are very much a part of Microsoft branding, and you're going to see more of them moving forward.

Metro live tiles are also coming to the taskbar, and possibly to the desktop as well in Threshold, which is reviving a "Metro" makeover.

So, no, metro is far from dead.

The Start Screen is dead on the desktop. The START MENU is back. Microsoft will push whatever is left of Metro and the apps, but it won't go anywhere.

Didn't you say for like a year that the Start Menu was NEVER coming back? Didn't you say the desktop was dead and the Start Screen was the future for laptop/desktop PCs?

You're opinion on anything is completely invalid.

Indoobidubly said,
The Start Screen is dead on the desktop. The START MENU is back. Microsoft will push whatever is left of Metro and the apps, but it won't go anywhere.

Didn't you say for like a year that the Start Menu was NEVER coming back? Didn't you say the desktop was dead and the Start Screen was the future for laptop/desktop PCs?

You're opinion on anything is completely invalid.


Why don't you cut Dot Matrix some slack? This article itself suggests that Metro is not dead. How can it possibly be when Microsoft is going to give it additional functionality?

Haven't you ever been wrong about something before? I suggest you think carefully if you decide to answer my question - an incorrect answer will make your opinion about any other subject completely invalid.

Edited by Ian William, Jul 18 2014, 7:12pm :

Microsoft is coming out with Windows 9 instead of releasing another Windows 8.x upgrade as Windows 8 as a brand was already trashed.

Beauty. I think the metro icons will come in the finalized version. They don't need to 'test' out the icons considering they didn't really test out the start screen. (jokes i love it)

coth said,
Desktop icons looks out of place on those tiles. They need an all new desktop metro iconset.

You are missing the point, desktop users don't want anything to do with metro, or its fugly CGA style.

I don't care whether start menu is back or not if MS make windows look simple and beautiful.

MS, where is all of your designers ? and Pls compare your windows with other competitors and then you will see how ugle windows is.

based on the squares so far , MS does not have designers. The new start menu is just a folder - stuck in thumbnails mode, stuck in full screen F11 mode...

It looks better then I expected, my only concern is that is doesn't appear we're likely going to be able to have things like the control panel opening into a menu on the right side of the start menu. That's a major time saver.

I was hoping they would allow the tiles to be pinned to the desktop like the old widgets instead of the start menu. Kind of disappointed.

Indeed. Like anyone wants to have fugly candy-colored blocks with almost no useful information clashing with our photos, icons, windows, etc.

I haven't seen such idiotic color combinations since preschool...

Yeah I saw that this was commented as fake. I mean we know its "real" but the build it refers to is fake so I've read. Sauce via MDL.

You can be fairly sure this screenshot was made up, build string likely legit could even have the start menu. But i doubt this screenshot is legit.

Why would the only shot of it be posted by a guy who is known to troll then get spread. Many leakers and insiders around who could / would likely post screenshots first.

If a random no one from a forum had the build one would expect others to have it also.

The whole thing stinks of fake.

Klownicle said,
Yeah I saw that this was commented as fake. I mean we know its "real" but the build it refers to is fake so I've read. Sauce via MDL.

How about doing some leg work on the above for sauce.

I always love when these early mock up builds leak. Really fun to watch the comments. Guys just give it time and let it evolve. There is a reason this isn't final yet.
At least on the desktop side Microsoft realized you can't use the traditional desktop as an "app".

The desktop on a tablet or phone should be the Start Screen
The desktop on on a traditional desktop should be the desktop. AND what Microsoft is finally doing is building a proper hybrid approach for desktop users. Something Apple has been yoying with also. This really is the perfect blend for the traditional desktop users and newer users

We'll just have to see just how committed MS is to the concept of a hybrid approach. Failing that, Windows-7 will be a major player until 2020 (or until a new OS and its UI fulfills the milieu in which Windows-7 excels). The "great divide" will continue.

I think the biggest question about "Threshold" is can we change the caption bar text color so we can do nice dark coloured themes?

Looking pretty good. I'll set it up to only have a Weather live tile as that seems to be the only useful app, then some big button for Computer and smaller ones for Documents, Music, Videos and Control Panel, With the height of 8 frequently used or pinned programs on the left it should not take up too much space when I open it.

I like the idea, but the mixture of Vista-era program icons and the more ModernUI icons for full screen apps looks really out of place. They really need to update the OS icons.

devHead said,
They really need to update the OS icons.

That they do, tired of doing it myself -- but *shrug* this is prototype work, get the functionality down, make it purty later, probably nowhere near the top of their to-do.

While the idea is not bad, the current UI is hideous. Here's to hoping it will look drastically better in the final version. For instance, this one doesn't seem to respect desktop color scheme (obviously that purple is a Start Screen color). I'm still worried that the Metro bits will remain scattered across the system like this (let's place bets if the Win+Space language menu retains its current appearance in the "metro-less" desktop Windows 9)

I'm soo over the start menu.

It seemed like a bad idea at first but i've adjusted to the start screen, now the start menu just looks rubbish.

UXGaurav said,
Sure looks like it's screaming for attention rather than continuing to build around the intuitive past design. :p

The old Menu was by no means "intuitive", merely familiar.

Raa said,
There was nothing unintuitive about a couple of clicks to launch a program from a menu.

There is nothing at all intuitive about drilling down folders to look for hidden applications. No other OS does this with installed software. The fact that user have been doing this since Windows 95, makes the process familiar, not intuitive. Add in the fact that the menu was quite often dis-organized, and easily abused by developers, and you have a system that is broken, and kludgy to use.

Case in point, at work I support an application that by default, installs directly to the startup folder. Took me forever to find it, because is that the first spot you would look for an application?

Applications shouldn't be hidden from the user. The whole point of the OS is to run software, and all the All Programs menu did was hide it.

Well that's your position and I'm taking mine.

Having worked with all ages in demonstrating computer basics for people, I can say which method works better overall.

If you're happy with the Start screen, good for you, I'm not going to knock you for it, and I suggest you follow the same tact. :)

My only concern is how All Apps will work, as the biggest problem with the Vista/Win7-era Start Menu was the way it was constrained to such a small area of the screen. Hopefully it will extend out to the full width of the Start Menu and not be limited to the column on the left, otherwise this is a step backwards.

If all it does is add Metro tiles to the Vista/Win7 Start Menu then colour me unimpressed.

I think this is a great start. The one thing I wish they would add (which I understand may eventually) would be for a way on the right side of the start menu to flip across the different start menu groups of apps. That way if you have a hybrid and you group apps you see them all from the start screen. If you are in desktop mode you can see the apps by flipping across different sections. I'm envisioning some type of button in the bottom right next to the Shut Down button.

There's already the whining "I want my start screen back".

Let's face it, there's going to be whiners regardless.

Absolutely - much, much the bigger deal. The desktop should be the all encompassing container for the 'full' experience on a full PC. 'Immersive' is great for a handheld or second monitor.

An acceptable compromise. It's high time Microsoft invests into new code, rather than dragging out old code. I really love Live Tiles, and the flat, colorful look is exactly what it needs. Now all Microsoft needs to do is invest in updating those awful Windows Vista era icons to something that'll better fit the Metro design.

Raphaël said,
It should make most people happy.

Don't forget where you are.. they could give you a hundred different alternatives and people will still cry about it. (Not me, rather like this one.)

Should be an acceptable compromise between Start menu fans and Start screen fans. If people are still clamoring for the ineffective Windows 7 Start menu after this, then they have no hope.

TsarNikky said,
"Ineffective start menu?" Maybe one's hardware and set of applications have something to do with is effective?

No, the previous Start Menu was very much ineffective, that' was a result of it being code that was dragged out, rather than updated over the years. The old menu suffered numerous issues, that Microsoft never addressed until now.

The only result that would make some people happy is if MS offers the exact same start menu as windows 7.

This 'next gen' start menu will only anger them more and we will hear all about it across the net.

So if MS wants to quite people a little, then they have to offer an option to use the exact same start menu as 7.

trooper11 said,
The only result that would make some people happy is if MS offers the exact same start menu as windows 7.

It's close enough.

I agree trooper11. Tweaking the original Start Menu is fine. However, changes such as the picture above is not what the public is asking for.

trooper11 said,
The only result that would make some people happy is if MS offers the exact same start menu as windows 7.

This 'next gen' start menu will only anger them more and we will hear all about it across the net.

So if MS wants to quite people a little, then they have to offer an option to use the exact same start menu as 7.

If you can't move on from that archaic menu by this point, then the OS isn't the issue. :rolleyes:

They should really offer a lot of options. I want it so when I boot, I get a command prompt and then when and ONLY when I want Windows, I type "win"

Then I want to choose from Program Manager, Windows Start Menu, Start Screen, or this new Hybrid thing. It's nice to have choices.

JHBrown said,
I agree trooper11. Tweaking the original Start Menu is fine. However, changes such as the picture above is not what the public is asking for.

The 'public' hasn't really expressed what they want, people online are interrupting slow sales in various ways. Of course, there is also anecdotal evidence floating around.

Basically, the public is swayed more by what the generally accepted idea is. So Win 8 was bad and then that filtered down to the public who then buy based on that word of mouth. 8.1 improved things, but that word was never filtered down to the public by the same people that warned them about 8, so 8.1 is also bad.

The online community, however, has made it clear what most want: Windows 7

So, the more MS builds in options to turn Windows 8/9 into Windows 7, hopefully those people online will start to spread the word and the general public will be open to use a newer version of windows.

trooper11 said,

The 'public' hasn't really expressed what they want, people online are interrupting slow sales in various ways. Of course, there is also anecdotal evidence floating around.

Basically, the public is swayed more by what the generally accepted idea is. So Win 8 was bad and then that filtered down to the public who then buy based on that word of mouth. 8.1 improved things, but that word was never filtered down to the public by the same people that warned them about 8, so 8.1 is also bad.

The online community, however, has made it clear what most want: Windows 7

So, the more MS builds in options to turn Windows 8/9 into Windows 7, hopefully those people online will start to spread the word and the general public will be open to use a newer version of windows.


trooper11 said,

The 'public' hasn't really expressed what they want, people online are interrupting slow sales in various ways. Of course, there is also anecdotal evidence floating around.

Basically, the public is swayed more by what the generally accepted idea is. So Win 8 was bad and then that filtered down to the public who then buy based on that word of mouth. 8.1 improved things, but that word was never filtered down to the public by the same people that warned them about 8, so 8.1 is also bad.

The online community, however, has made it clear what most want: Windows 7

So, the more MS builds in options to turn Windows 8/9 into Windows 7, hopefully those people online will start to spread the word and the general public will be open to use a newer version of windows.

But Windows 8 isn't Windows 7, and nor should it. Just like how Windows 7 wasn't Vista, and how Vista wasn't XP. Microsoft should be free to build new versions of Windows without requiring options to "turn everything off". If all you're going to do is that, then why are you upgrading in the first place?

Dot Matrix said,

But Windows 8 isn't Windows 7, and nor should it. Just like how Windows 7 wasn't Vista, and how Vista wasn't XP. Microsoft should be free to build new versions of Windows without requiring options to "turn everything off". If all you're going to do is that, then why are you upgrading in the first place?

There is certainly truth in what you say, but MS has to do what it can to get positive buzz among the tech enthusiast online community.

That will then trickle down to the general users. So targeting the enthusiasts isn't a bad idea.

trooper11 said,

There is certainly truth in what you say, but MS has to do what it can to get positive buzz among the tech enthusiast online community.

That will then trickle down to the general users. So targeting the enthusiasts isn't a bad idea.

As you can see, there are many positive posts here, and elsewhere about this new feature.

trooper11 said,

There is certainly truth in what you say, but MS has to do what it can to get positive buzz among the tech enthusiast online community.

That will then trickle down to the general users. So targeting the enthusiasts isn't a bad idea.

Good luck. There are plenty of examples in these comments of people so limited in vision and unwilling to try something new, that we're being forced to go backwards to appease these people. When what they've been asking for is brought back, but it's been improved to continue to include some of the new, there's still whinging. For example, the idea of bringing back the stupid fly-out Start Menu design from Windows 9x, now that's an example of complete and utter stupidity.

Even when you can remove the modern elements and jump back to straight desktop-only scenarios, there's still whinging because modern is still there if you want it in the future. The problem is, these people (Who also tend to be the loudest bunch), seem to think Windows is designed specifically for them.
Too bad if there are others out there who are willing to learn and make some minor adjustments to better utilise what's on offer, too bad if what they're asking for would only serve to go backwards in progress and computing universality, too bad if it breaks new, more *ahem* modern approaches to computing across multiple devices and application models, the fact that it even dares to try something new is scary and must be removed.

Honestly, if you try the experience in the way Microsoft has designed it and envisaged it to work, it's absolutely fantastic, functional, and works well across all platforms Windows runs on. Unfortunately, you wouldn't know it if you only listen to those who see the desktop as the only environment, and only the desktop as a valid environment for Windows to be used on.

I use it on my desktop PCs, both at home and work, and have no issues with it at all. I use the modern stuff at home, but none of it at work. I also have a Surface Pro that I use both environments with, and it works seamlessly. The power of this should not be understated, because it's really something very special and completely blows away everything else out there. With universal apps now meaning I can use the same app on my Windows Phone and my Windows desktops and/or tablets, I don't have to compromise my experience and it just works fluidly. I don't have to use crappy touch screen file managers on my tablet when I have a keyboard plugged in, I can use Windows Explorer. I can connect my tablet to a domain and utilise domain resources from touch and keyboard friendly apps. I can use it for work and play, without having to swap devices or do some ridiculous "mode switch".

Yes, Windows 8 was a rough start, but it was a start. It had to get out there and it had to start from nothing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a blind supporter of Windows 8 and the app model (Personally, I'd like to be able to side-load apps without special keys, and Group Policy control over the Start Screen leaves a lot to be desired), but I can see progress being made, and the fruits of their vision ripening, it's just a bit too scary for some.

I agree largely you, I think the re-introduction of the Start Menu is a backwards step for innovation and could set back the advancement of Windows for some time to come. There's no doubt that the Start Screen can be further improved and refined for mouse and keyboard users but make no mistake, the desktop is not the future.

Obviously Microsoft don't want to have another Windows XP support extension nightmare on their hands, they've had to do something drastic to encourage the adoption of Windows 8.1 and beyond, especially since you can't even buy Windows 7 Pro retail anymore and mainstream support ends in January next year.

It already does! Parts of it at least. All the opened IE11 tabs sync to my Lumia 920, same with favorites, passwords, etc. Works pretty conveniently.

That was my first thought too. With enough universal apps it could be possible to have the same start screen on both phone and PC.

hungb.nguyen said,
but what if I want to put more tiles on the start menu?

It'll expand horizontally to fit those tiles. This isn't the old Start Menu, this is all completely new code.

Dot Matrix said,

It'll expand horizontally to fit those tiles. This isn't the old Start Menu, this is all completely new code.

I have to ask, how exactly do you know that this is all new code and nothing of the Windows 7 start menu code bought over? Especially given how it looks like the Win7 menu with just a bit of modern UI stuff glued on the side.

Dot Matrix said,

It'll expand horizontally to fit those tiles. This isn't the old Start Menu, this is all completely new code.

how do you know for sure it will expand horizontally?

personally, I believe the start menu is designed to save space and to acquire less space on the desktop than the start screen.

I think the start menu will show a vertical scroll-bar once there are more than a number of rows of tiles.

Chicane-UK said,

I have to ask, how exactly do you know that this is all new code and nothing of the Windows 7 start menu code bought over? Especially given how it looks like the Win7 menu with just a bit of modern UI stuff glued on the side.

There was a preview of it at Windows BUILD 2014. It really does expand.

B0mberman said,
as usual he's assuming a lot of things due to his 'love of metro'. This start menu looks hideous.

Or, or... and just go with me one this.. because it's common knowledge and has been widely known on the web for quite a while. It's time to get of your hater horse and feel the cold water of reality on your hater toes.

Chicane-UK said,

I have to ask, how exactly do you know that this is all new code and nothing of the Windows 7 start menu code bought over? Especially given how it looks like the Win7 menu with just a bit of modern UI stuff glued on the side.

The old Start Menu code was removed from the Windows codebase. This is an entirely new UX based on the Start Screen, according to sources with Paul Thurrott (as much as I don't like the man.)

hungb.nguyen said,

how do you know for sure it will expand horizontally?

personally, I believe the start menu is designed to save space and to acquire less space on the desktop than the start screen.

I think the start menu will show a vertical scroll-bar once there are more than a number of rows of tiles.

It was shown off at Build 2014. You can search YouTube for a video if you still don't believe me.

Dot Matrix said,

It was shown off at Build 2014. You can search YouTube for a video if you still don't believe me.

nvm, found the video, you were right

Chicane-UK said,

I have to ask, how exactly do you know that this is all new code and nothing of the Windows 7 start menu code bought over? Especially given how it looks like the Win7 menu with just a bit of modern UI stuff glued on the side.

the windows 7 start menu had it's code explicitly removed and it's gone forever. Paul from the winsupersite has said that this new start menu is actually based on....guess what....the start screen.

FalseAgent said,

so they kept the part of the start menu which enabled jumplists. Duh!


And the other stuff could have easily been reintegrated from an older source code revision - unless MS threw away their repository, no code is gone…

MFH said,

And the other stuff could have easily been reintegrated from an older source code revision - unless MS threw away their repository, no code is gone…

Why would they throw in old code? Windows needs new code, not decrepit old code that was never updated throughout the years. This is an entirely new feature, that needs to work with the new features, and expandability of Windows 8.

Dot Matrix said,

Why would they throw in old code? Windows needs new code, not decrepit old code that was never updated throughout the years. This is an entirely new feature, that needs to work with the new features, and expandability of Windows 8.

Quite a bit of the old code could still be entirely relevant. They wouldn't just throw it out.

MikeChipshop said,

Quite a bit of the old code could still be entirely relevant. They wouldn't just throw it out.

Maybe, but it wouldn't take long to just do over, and make sure it's fresh and working with the features of Windows 8.

Dot Matrix said,

Maybe, but it wouldn't take long to just do over, and make sure it's fresh and working with the features of Windows 8.


Rule in this industry: you never throw away time tested (aka bug free) code. Not that I expect you to understand/accept that…

Dot Matrix said,

Maybe, but it wouldn't take long to just do over, and make sure it's fresh and working with the features of Windows 8.

You simply don't do that. If the code works, is bug free and reliable, and is compatible, then why not use it?

MikeChipshop said,

You simply don't do that. If the code works, is bug free and reliable, and is compatible, then why not use it?

Q&A, you can't just simply copy and paste code in to a project. Just writing new code requires extensive Q&A to assure it's working correctly, doesn't introduce bugs or worse, security holes, and to ensure it's up to par with the rest of the project.

The Menu was originally removed because it didn't scale, and didn't work with new features of Windows 8. It would be impossible to paste back in.

Dot Matrix said,

Q&A, you can't just simply copy and paste code in to a project. Just writing new code requires extensive Q&A to assure it's working correctly, doesn't introduce bugs or worse, security holes, and to ensure it's up to par with the rest of the project.

The Menu was originally removed because it didn't scale, and didn't work with new features of Windows 8. It would be impossible to paste back in.

Everything you just described is a good reason to reuse old code. Old code != bad code.
The old menu may have been 80% code that worked and is fine to reuse and 20$ code that needed to be rewritten.

Personally i think MS are silly bringing it back at all but then that's a whole other discussion.

MikeChipshop said,
Old code != bad code.

Just give up, he's never going to accept the basic concepts of software engineering…

MFH said,

Just give up, he's never going to accept the basic concepts of software engineering…

Dot aint a bad guy, and i often agree with him, he just needs some guidance sometimes ;)

That really is something I hate about the Windows 8 UI, the flat solid colors and that terrible looking close button. The whole thing looks like something a high school student made in Windows Paint.

I don't want the startmenu back and woud love a way to completely get rid of the start button.
Right now im using a tool to remove the icon, but if i move my mouse in the edge of the screen, the button still appears and hides the other icon below...
Would be nice if there was a way to also remove this hover icon...

Makes me wonder if the computer interface will ever move forward. We've been looking at this same exact thing for 20 years. Surely, we won't be looking at this same thing in the next 20 years, right?

Wyn6 said,
Makes me wonder if the computer interface will ever move forward. We've been looking at this same exact thing for 20 years. Surely, we won't be looking at this same thing in the next 20 years, right?

Depends how long MS listens to the whiny little empty vessels.

MikeChipshop said,

Depends how long MS listens to the whiny little empty vessels.


Without commenting on the other adjectives you used my educated guess is that " little" must not be so little if MS took steps to address it.

Wyn6 said,
Makes me wonder if the computer interface will ever move forward.

"the computer interface" already has moved forward... the times of "windows everywhere" are long gone.

Adamodeus said,
Yes, let's all relearn the OS UI every time a new version comes out - that would be progress.

Yes, let's assume that every new OS version will have a UI so radically different that it will require "re-learning". For the sake of proving your reductio ad absurdum.

Cosmocronos said,

Without commenting on the other adjectives you used my educated guess is that " little" must not be so little if MS took steps to address it.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

CJEric said,

"the computer interface" already has moved forward... the times of "windows everywhere" are long gone.

Ah. Then explain to me how the "user interface" of a 20 year old OS (Windows 95) is vastly different than what we have and what we may be going to with Windows 9.

This is a sincere inquiry.

Yes the UI will gradually move forward, as hardware and software gradually evolve. Regrettably, the recent "one size fits all" type of default UI in Windows-8.x was and is not the proper route. Windows-9, if a true choice of UI is available, will be an excellent way for users to transition to a new UI as they replace hardware and as software is re-written.

A good UI is one you don't notice because you're infinitely comfortable with it - it takes you milliseconds to navigate it, because your hand does it for you. The first time I installed Windows 8 beta, I took 15 minutes racking my brains on how to turn the damn thing off, until I gave up and googled it. Around that time Chris "Lockergnome" published a video of his father trying the Windows 8 interface - he was utterly lost. You think it's good form to have people learn an interface by heart only to have it yanked away after 20 years because "change is progress"?

There is a vocal minority out there who thinks that any change is progress. SOME changes definitely are. Other changes are just changes for the sake of change. If a change makes things less convenient for me, I will not accept it. And clearly, I am not alone. I can probably learn to write with my left hand and I can learn to play pool with a baseball bat - but why would I try? Because some people say it's progress and I'm a Luddite for thinking it's not? If I try something and I don't like it, I don't "have to suck it up because it's progress".

Adamodeus said,
A good UI is one you don't notice because you're infinitely comfortable with it - it takes you milliseconds to navigate it, because your hand does it for you. The first time I installed Windows 8 beta, I took 15 minutes racking my brains on how to turn the damn thing off, until I gave up and googled it. Around that time Chris "Lockergnome" published a video of his father trying the Windows 8 interface - he was utterly lost. You think it's good form to have people learn an interface by heart only to have it yanked away after 20 years because "change is progress"?

There is a vocal minority out there who thinks that any change is progress. SOME changes definitely are. Other changes are just changes for the sake of change. If a change makes things less convenient for me, I will not accept it. And clearly, I am not alone. I can probably learn to write with my left hand and I can learn to play pool with a baseball bat - but why would I try? Because some people say it's progress and I'm a Luddite for thinking it's not? If I try something and I don't like it, I don't "have to suck it up because it's progress".

Got it. So, everything new people should know how to use right away. And, the infamous Lockergnome Windows 8 Dad video, where he intentionally only post PART of the video showing his dad being confused. But, he didn't post the remainder of it until later. That part showed his dad getting use to it and actually liking it within minutes.

Look. You're rehashing the same arguments from Windows 8 release. I'm not going to do that. Eventually, UIs, UX, and user input will change. If you want to continue using Windows 7 in the year 2030, be my guest. Everybody else will most likely be using something different by then.

MS caved and it appears the Start Menu will be getting a reboot at some point in the future. That's fine by me and it doesn't really affect me. Just like those who cried foul when MS dropped the Start Menu, were able to do, I'll still be able to use my computer to do the exact same things as before.

So, rejoice and ride this ride as long as you can. Because, whether we like change or not... it's coming.

What I would like to have is the ability to hide the section with the icons and have interactive tiles.
That would be, for me, perfect.

No thanks Microsoft. I don't want a Mini Metro/Start Screen in my Start Menu. Hopefully there's an option for the Classic Start Menu.

JHBrown said,
No thanks Microsoft. I don't want a Mini Metro/Start Screen in my Start Menu. Hopefully there's an option for the Classic Start Menu.

Seriously, WHY. Why is this such an abhorrent problem to people like you. I don't understand. You don't have to love it but why does it bother you so so SO much. You're not being forced to used it, it's just there. There will NOT be a classic start menu, it's dead, MS has mentioned this maaaaaaany times. You will be able to unpin all the modern stuff and just use that hybrid start menu as you did the classic one. The ONLY difference will be a) the new windows button and b) the start menu will be framed by your accent color.

WHAT is the big deal. Jeez. Maybe you'd like to go back to this - http://www.unlockwindows.com/w...0/Windows-95-Start-Menu.png

Edited by Xabier Granja, Jul 13 2014, 7:41pm :

Actually for me it is not a big deal. I'm fine with running Windows 7 for the next decade. I was just hoping for the option.

OK, agreed on that, you can use win7 for the next 6 years and be fully supported/secured by MS. Also, there's nothing wrong with somebody not liking the new hybrid menu, what bothers me - and I now know we're not talking about you specifically here - is all the people who mindlessly just plain reject it because it's not what they had years ago.

MS is catering to consumer complaints and creating something that mixes what they propose for the future and what consumers insist they want. This is so similar to the win7 menu and it's future proof with all the metro possibilities, yet the sad reality is that there are going to be many, many people whining because it's not the menu from win7 pixel for pixel and reject the OS. Those are the people I simply do not understand: it's comparable to racism or rejection of cultures different to one's own.

JHBrown said,
Hopefully there's an option for the Classic Start Menu.

Why would there be? There isn't one in Windows 7, why would there be one here?

JHBrown said,
Actually for me it is not a big deal. I'm fine with running Windows 7 for the next decade. I was just hoping for the option.

And again, someone else claiming the only reason they're not on Windows 8 is the lack of a Windows 7 style start menu. Given that you can have that right now if you want, for free, I call shenanigans.

zeke009 said,
Sadly, that is how many people use the Start Menu, like it is Win95 with the hunt and peck. If more had used pinned apps and SEARCH in the Win7 start menu, the transition to Win8 is should be quick and relatively easy. Same actions, different appearance.

That's just it though. Microsoft's own telemetry told them that's how most people used the old Windows 7 start menu... Start menu search and pinned apps. It's why they felt justified making the changes they did, as those mechanisms didn't change one iota in Windows 8 and functioned identically to Windows 7, right down to the key presses. Unfortunately,"most" people were drowned out by the extremely loud remainder.

Here's a reason why some people don't like Metro - it's just plain, squarish, bland, boring, and ugly. I get that this Metro thing was conceived as a reason to help offset the technologically weaker smartphones and tablets, that part I get, but why this crap on a modern PC? Why is MSFT trying so hard to push Metro into the desktop? Oh, I get it, it's so that they can cash-in from being a gatekeeper on their store, rather than innovating in any meaningful way to the consumer. What a brilliant plan. How well has it worked for Microsoft since its inception, seriously?

We are not doctors, so there is nothing wrong with us if we don't understand the Metro-Hybrid Start Menu haters. Al I can say is there seems to be a new personality disorder with brand name and feature hatred in the tech world.

Pluribus said,
Why is MSFT trying so hard to push Metro into the desktop? Oh, I get it, it's so that they can cash-in from being a gatekeeper on their store, rather than innovating in any meaningful way to the consumer. What a brilliant plan. How well has it worked for Microsoft since its inception, seriously?

God forbid Microsoft brings new technologies to the desktop for people to use.

Dot Matrix said,

God forbid Microsoft brings new technologies to the desktop for people to use.

So your idea of 'new' technology is a bunch of colored squares that that really brings no added value to the experience other than for Microsoft to fatten its wallet, which thankfully the consumers have largely rejected? My oh my, talk about blind zealotry.

Edited by Pluribus, Jul 14 2014, 1:35am :

Pluribus said,

So your idea of 'new' technology is a bunch of colored squares that that really brings no added value to the experience other than for Microsoft to fatten its wallet, which thankfully the consumers have largely rejected? My oh my, talk about blind zealotry.

Good lord, are you that thick? If you're not looking to buy software, then please, by all means, stop using computers. God forbid Microsoft bring something to the table for you to decide to purchase or not. It's not like many of the popular apps are free... You're in for an eye opener when you realize there's more to Windows 8 than live tiles.

Dot Matrix said,

Good lord, are you that thick? If you're not looking to buy software, then please, by all means, stop using computers. God forbid Microsoft bring something to the table for you to decide to purchase or not. It's not like many of the popular apps are free... You're in for an eye opener when you realize there's more to Windows 8 than live tiles.

Since when was the word monopoly synonymous with the word choice? It's so oxymoronic. I'm sure glad that won't be the case for much longer. You can keep your beloved metro while the world moves on from Windows.

Pluribus said,

Since when was the word monopoly synonymous with the word choice? It's so oxymoronic. I'm sure glad that won't be the case for much longer. You can keep your beloved metro while the world moves on from Windows.

Then good.

Pluribus said,

Since when was the word monopoly synonymous with the word choice? It's so oxymoronic. I'm sure glad that won't be the case for much longer. You can keep your beloved metro while the world moves on from Windows.

Moves to what? To Apples totally closed system/ monopoly? Why doesn't apples or googles AppStore bother you?

TCLN Ryster said,
That's just it though. Microsoft's own telemetry told them that's how most people used the old Windows 7 start menu...

Microsoft's own telemetry only works where people allow Microsoft to spy on them. Any technical user will say NO to that when Microsoft asks. Many corporates would have it turned off by default. The telemetry they were getting would have been biased and proven to be wrong by the fact that Windows 8 has been the failure that was predicted many times (if Sinofsky didn't fudge the figures to get what he wanted anyway)!

Not sure how I feel about the new Start Menu. It's gone back to my old gripe with the old start menu, can only use vertical space, not horizontal.

McKay said,
Not sure how I feel about the new Start Menu. It's gone back to my old gripe with the old start menu, can only use vertical space, not horizontal.

I think that the start menu with horizontal space is called the start screen. :p

McKay said,
Not sure how I feel about the new Start Menu. It's gone back to my old gripe with the old start menu, can only use vertical space, not horizontal.

It'll expand horizontally to fit more tiles.

greenwizard88 said,

I think that the start menu with horizontal space is called the start screen. :p

Which is a main reason why I prefer the start screen over the start menu.

McKay said,
Not sure how I feel about the new Start Menu. It's gone back to my old gripe with the old start menu, can only use vertical space, not horizontal.

From everything I've read recently (all rumors of course), you won't have to worry. If you like the start screen, you can use it. If you like the start menu, you can use it. There have even been rumors to the effect of you can customize this start screen/menu to be any size, really... small and narrow if you want it, or large and fat if you want it, or full screen all the way. That'd be cool if true.

McKay said,
Not sure how I feel about the new Start Menu. It's gone back to my old gripe with the old start menu, can only use vertical space, not horizontal.

You can probably still use the start screen. With the addition of this start menu they can make both groups happy, those that like the fullscreen start, and those that don't.

I was talking with Steve Ballmer yesterday and we came up with a great idea: get rid of the Start Menu and the Start Screen and force everyone to use Kinect for PC.

Do the Monster Mash to open the start menu, then jive to computer, double-thrust to open the context menu then do the splits to choose properties. Shamone!

I heard they were working on a Hokey Pokey version but it kept BSODing on the Shake it all about part... Never could get it right...

Cryton said,
Do the Monster Mash to open the start menu, then jive to computer, double-thrust to open the context menu then do the splits to choose properties. Shamone!

Microsoft's move to fight user obesity?

Like with xbox, they are probably ahead of their time trying to push to much. Not sure why, but the thought to have different interactions between desktop/laptop and smaller touch screen devices.

Though you have to admit, Windows 8 has gone a long way to push touch screen tech in larger form factors which personally I approve of.

Corey C said,
Like with xbox, they are probably ahead of their time trying to push to much. Not sure why, but the thought to have different interactions between desktop/laptop and smaller touch screen devices.

Though you have to admit, Windows 8 has gone a long way to push touch screen tech in larger form factors which personally I approve of.

hmmm.... i dont really know if thats the case. touch devices are hardly anyhting new. to me it seems ms lost the edge there and is trying to pushing their own stuff now by patching touchscreen stuff into their only product where they have a wide consumer reach.
also, ms lacks credibility in being ahead in things. if i had to name a company here that would be definitely apple, like em or not, but they found their way of doing things.

While your right touch is hardly new, what you can do with touch devices now is a lot more.

While it maybe similar to the old slates, MS is redefining (or trying to) what can be done on a true productivity touch device.

In regards to apple, I don't have anything against them, but I would say they are actually great at being just on time with things not necessarily ahead, and making what is currently available better then most companies can do it.

The main innovation they really had was how to provide Apps/Music/etc.. to mobile devices. There were smart phones before the Iphone (some better or others), heck I had a Windows CE phone way back in the day before iphones, but there wasn't really a good app market so you couldn't really do anything more on it then you could a palm (yes some stuff but not for consumers so much)

That being said, Apple in the past 7 years or so has been really good at doing what they do best.

elenarie said,
Meh.

Yes, that is what people say every time here when there is presentation and the presenter attempts to open the start menu to run some application and the cannot aim the 1x1 pixel "charm". It is like aim - fail, aim - fail, aim - charm appears - attempt to click it - its 0ms tolerance works and it is gone and the click goes to fail. Then the presenter words run out and silence begins and everyone looks at the screen and say to themselves that they will NEVER install windowns 8...

DaveBG said,

Yes, that is what people say every time here when there is presentation and the presenter attempts to open the start menu to run some application and the cannot aim the 1x1 pixel "charm". It is like aim - fail, aim - fail, aim - charm appears - attempt to click it - its 0ms tolerance works and it is gone and the click goes to fail. Then the presenter words run out and silence begins and everyone looks at the screen and say to themselves that they will NEVER install windowns 8...

What?

DaveBG said,

Yes, that is what people say every time here when there is presentation and the presenter attempts to open the start menu to run some application and the cannot aim the 1x1 pixel "charm". It is like aim - fail, aim - fail, aim - charm appears - attempt to click it - its 0ms tolerance works and it is gone and the click goes to fail. Then the presenter words run out and silence begins and everyone looks at the screen and say to themselves that they will NEVER install windowns 8...

Why not just hit the start button on the KB? Also what you are describing is only in Windows 8 original, not 8.1 or 8.1 update 1

rsnn said,
Hell yeah!

The time to quit Windows 7 its coming

Microsoft will find a way to mess it up, don't worry. They probably have the great idea to put adverts in the Start menu for new 'recommended apps' to help promote modern apps... or something just as silly, crazy and ridiculous, such as mandatory live accounts to use the new start menu.

sagum said,

Microsoft will find a way to mess it up, don't worry. They probably have the great idea to put adverts in the Start menu for new 'recommended apps' to help promote modern apps... or something just as silly, crazy and ridiculous, such as mandatory live accounts to use the new start menu.

Uh, huh. Because Windows 8 has anything like that at all on the Start Screen.

I'm still hoping that pinned (to the Taskbar) Metro apps will have "Metro-style" jump lists. Meaning, if I right-click on the pinned Weather app, the local weather will pop-up in the jump list without me having to open the app. Same goes for the Finance app--if I right-click on the pinned app, the current stock price index up/down will pop-up (again, without having to open the full-blown app).

This would give Metro apps some useful functionality without leaving the desktop or the current app/program that you're working in.

rsnn said,
Hell yeah!

The time to quit Windows 7 its coming

So let me get this straight... the only reason you've not switched from 7 to 8 already is the lack of a start menu? Given that you can essentially add a start menu to Windows 8 for free right now, I find that hard to believe.

TCLN Ryster said,

So let me get this straight... the only reason you've not switched from 7 to 8 already is the lack of a start menu? Given that you can essentially add a start menu to Windows 8 for free right now, I find that hard to believe.

Some people don't like the options available. Big deal.

rsnn said,
Hell yeah!

The time to quit Windows 7 its coming

... Let's turn the tables? To an average Joe who does not visit tech sites why would he upgrade and throw out a perfectly good computer when it 'just like win 7' than why leave it?

We will see in 2020. But my guess is XP will still be around then probably in 10% market share with win 7 still around unless Ms makes it different than 7 with a reason to upgrade

sinetheo said,

... Let's turn the tables? To an average Joe who does not visit tech sites why would he upgrade and throw out a perfectly good computer when it 'just like win 7' than why leave it?

We will see in 2020. But my guess is XP will still be around then probably in 10% market share with win 7 still around unless Ms makes it different than 7 with a reason to upgrade

Lol. XP is at 13% market share now, and still dropping. It'll be WAY below 10% at that point.

rsnn said,
Hell yeah!

The time to quit Windows 7 its coming


Wait, we have not seen if the squares can be unpinned from there!

TCLN Ryster said,
he only reason you've not switched from 7 to 8 already is the lack of a start menu? Given that you can essentially add a start menu to Windows 8 for free right now, I find that hard to believe.

You know very well there were many issues with Windows 8 INCLUDING the start menu, and METRO being the default start screen. Once these are gone, and the keyboard and mouse can properly drive windows, I'm sure desktop and notebook users will start coming back, but it'll be a long and hard task for Microsoft to undo the harm and ill-will they have caused with Windows 8.

Many will NEVER touch Windows 8 in any form due to the damage Microsoft did. The sooner they fix the issues, and release Windows 9, the sooner Microsoft "may" start on the road to OS recovery.

dvb2000 said,

You know very well there were many issues with Windows 8 INCLUDING the start menu, and METRO being the default start screen. Once these are gone, and the keyboard and mouse can properly drive windows, I'm sure desktop and notebook users will start coming back, but it'll be a long and hard task for Microsoft to undo the harm and ill-will they have caused with Windows 8.

Many will NEVER touch Windows 8 in any form due to the damage Microsoft did. The sooner they fix the issues, and release Windows 9, the sooner Microsoft "may" start on the road to OS recovery.

Sounds like user error. I have no issues driving Windows 8 with a mouse or keyboard.

Dot Matrix said,
XP is at 13% market share now, and still dropping. It'll be WAY below 10% at that point.

According to Netmarketshare it's at about 25% currently ...

CJEric said,
According to Netmarketshare it's at about 25% currently ...

Eh depends who you listen to. W3 shows 7.1%, StatCounter at 13%, Steam says ~5%, etc. What they all have in common though is the downward trend. (Except Steam, XP x86 up 0.29%?)

sagum said,

Microsoft will find a way to mess it up, don't worry. They probably have the great idea to put adverts in the Start menu for new 'recommended apps' to help promote modern apps... or something just as silly, crazy and ridiculous, such as mandatory live accounts to use the new start menu.

What are you smoking? There is no mandatory live accounts unless you want to use services which the services themselves require it (OneDrive etc) but if you wish to simply have a local account and use all OS features of Windows 8 you are free to do so

cybersaurusrex said,
I'm still hoping that pinned (to the Taskbar) Metro apps will have "Metro-style" jump lists. Meaning, if I right-click on the pinned Weather app, the local weather will pop-up in the jump list without me having to open the app. Same goes for the Finance app--if I right-click on the pinned app, the current stock price index up/down will pop-up (again, without having to open the full-blown app).

This would give Metro apps some useful functionality without leaving the desktop or the current app/program that you're working in.

Would be a neat addition, but I don't really see it happening unfortunately. I was actually quite surprised to see that the Music app has pause, last, and next buttons when hovering over its icon in the taskbar. I know that Windows Media Player has this functionality, as does iTunes, but integrating it with the modern Music app somehow seemed far-fetched to me. Nevertheless, there it is! :)