Nintendo apologizes for excluding same-sex relationships from Tomodachi Life

Nintendo issued an apology over its decision to not include same-sex relationships in Tomodachi Life, a multi-player life simulator popular in Japan. Players of the online game personalize their avatars, called Mii's, with which they can visit virtual amusement parks, shop, go on dates and even marry friends. According to Nintendo, relationship options will continue to be restricted to Mii's of opposite sexes.

We apologize for disappointing many people by failing to include same-sex relationships in Tomodachi Life. Unfortunately, it is not possible for us to change this game's design, and such a significant development change can't be accomplished with a post-ship patch.... We pledge that if we create a next installment in the Tomodachi series, we will strive to design a game-play experience from the ground up that is more inclusive, and better represents all players.

Tomodachi Life was released in Japan in April and is set to appear in North American and European markets on June 6. Western fans of the series had hoped Nintendo would update the game to be LGBT-friendly, but Nintendo's statement appears to remove that option from the table. A spokesperson from Nintendo of America said he hoped that "all of our fans will see that Tomodachi Life was intended to be a whimsical and quirky game, and that we were absolutely not trying to provide social commentary."

LGBT advocacy group GLAAD rejected that appeal, noting that dozens of other games allow players to engage in same-sex relationships, including the highly acclaimed Sims series. According to GLAAD spokesperson Wilson Cruz, "In purposefully limiting players' relationship options, Nintendo is not only sending a hurtful message to many of its fans and consumers by excluding them, but also setting itself way behind the times."

Source: CNET | Image via polygon.com

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Open source is the solution.

Nintendo says it's not worth it to make the change - someone else could decide it is worth it and make the change themselves.

there's no money it for them. open source sucks for game makers. the only way a publisher puts a game on Linux is if they can release it pre-compiled/no-source.

seta-san said,
there's no money it for them. open source sucks for game makers. the only way a publisher puts a game on Linux is if they can release it pre-compiled/no-source.
You point out well the problem with capitalism.

Beaux said,
You point out well the problem with capitalism.

no. i point out the ultimate problem with communism. There would be no game industry in a communistic society.. at least no significant game industry. It takes the creative genius of hundreds of people as well as organization at the top. Communism has always sucked as an economic system because the best you're ever going to get is mediocre and if one person fails everyone fails. In capitalism if me or my business go bankrupt no one around me is going to give a damn because it doesn't really affect them.

seta-san said,

There would be no game industry in a communistic society..
Did you get that crystal ball you have through capitalism? lol

_Alexander said,
Capitalism plays a fair role in LGBT rights. You exclude a group from your product, you get less money which is bad.
Less money that what? and how is that bad? You're not even thinking about what you're talking about.
If you're the richest game company in the world, and you get a little "less money", and you're still the richest game company in the world, it's not bad.

Were these people really foolish enough to think a complete game was going to be reprogrammed just to please a small portion of the audience? People need to wake up and realize the world doesn't cater to them, especially if it would cost more to do so than it would actually be worth in the end.

Blackhearted said,
Were these people really foolish enough to think a complete game was going to be reprogrammed just to please a small portion of the audience? People need to wake up and realize the world doesn't cater to them, especially if it would cost more to do so than it would actually be worth in the end.

It's not about the fact that they weren't going to reprogram the game. It's about the fact that they purposefully omitted it from the game. That means someone made a conscious decision to leave it out.

Why don't they also support transgenders and otherkin and multiple systems and transethnics, and people who are transfat?

wixostrix said,
When your horse can consent to marriage then your option can be included. #logic

Consent by omission.

wixostrix said,
When your horse can consent to marriage then your option can be included. #logic
Bestiality has nothing to do with marriage. #readingcomprehension

Beaux said,
Bestiality has nothing to do with marriage. #readingcomprehension

The topping at hand is about relation and marriage, in which he brought bestiality into discussion.

J4rrod said,
I'm mad at Nintendo too! I prefer bestiality and that's not an option either! #bigots

Didn't King Koopa kidnap Princess Peach to marry her? Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK King Koopa is not human.

We could say Nintendo is certainly not foreign to bestiality.

In few years we cannot celebrate Mother's day or Father's day because it wont cater to the entire LGBT community. Get over it people; This is exactly why people either love or slam this kinda stuff. Lesbian's/Gay are not people with down syndrome; They do not need the extra attention or care. If you don't like a game buy another if it fits your purpose.

P.S I won't be responding to this post so you can waste your time commenting on it like I did.

There are already places where PC nuts have tried to ban Fathers Day because wah wah its not fair to the kids who don't have dads wah wah.

Mostly SJWs who think it glorifies an oppressive patriarchal society or whatever twisted reality they see the world as.

I don't understand a lot of the comments. Many in the LGBT community strive for the right to live the way they want, right to have their own beliefs, just want to be met with an understanding attitude. However, many of the more vocal in the LGBT community don't respect others. They meet people with opposing beliefs or viewpoints with the "I want you to respect my beliefs and have equal rights, but f**k yours" attitude. It's quite shocking. I guess there are extremists in ever social/religious/humanitarian/etc group though that tend to give others a bad representation.

Joswin said,
I am unsure how including gay relationships in this social program would 'f**k' none-gay peoples rights.

because it's a game for small ####ing children who shouldn't be exposed to this #### yet.

Javik said,
You're forgetting that a large portion of Neowin's readership comes from the United States of Homophobia.

This is what I mean. If someone doesn't agree with your viewpoint, insult them. When in practice, if someone doesn't agree with homosexuality, someone fighting for freedom and rights should be saying something along the lines of: "Although I don't agree with your viewpoint, I respect your right to think that way." Instead, people who either don't understand or don't believe in homosexuality, are often met with "ignorant", "homophobic", "bigot".

If people are to have equal rights across the board, that includes people who don't believe the same way you do. I am actually in favor of gay marriage and all the rights that come with it, but I definitely think people are entitled to think otherwise and don't think less of them for doing so.

seta-san said,

because it's a game for small ####ing children who shouldn't be exposed to this #### yet.


Oh god protect the children from that indecent uhm... what the worst that a game for kids can have? Cuddling? Blowing Kisses? Exchanging vows?

Javik said,
You're forgetting that a large portion of Neowin's readership comes from the United States of Homophobia.

You're not intelligent enough to actually contribute anything to a conversion aside from insults and attacks are you? Perhaps you should take a break from the internet until you grow up a bit and actually know how to have a proper conversation.

seta-san said,

because it's a game for small ####ing children who shouldn't be exposed to this #### yet.

You don't become gay. You are born this way. I could be wrong of course but i have yet to meet a gay who "became" gay by "choice" just for the fun of it.

So i don't see the problem with kids being aware it exists.

LaP said,

You don't become gay. You are born this way. I could be wrong of course but i have yet to meet a gay who "became" gay by "choice" just for the fun of it.

So i don't see the problem with kids being aware it exists.

there might a few of them who do it because they like the attention. being gay has been put in such a positive light in the media these days that I have no doubt that it's going to, at least, convince some kids to experiment... and in my opinion if you do it once your gay forever.

seta-san said,

there might a few of them who do it because they like the attention. being gay has been put in such a positive light in the media these days that I have no doubt that it's going to, at least, convince some kids to experiment... and in my opinion if you do it once your gay forever.


Then you were never straight to begin with.

seta-san said,

because it's a game for small ####ing children who shouldn't be exposed to this #### yet.

That is like say that you shouldn't teach sexual health to pre-teens. And now we have tv shows like "16 and pregnant" if you teach kids in an appropriate way that being gay is ok, then maybe we won't have kids killing themselves because they are afraid to tell their parents that they might be gay.

watsxn said,

That is like say that you shouldn't teach sexual health to pre-teens. And now we have tv shows like "16 and pregnant" if you teach kids in an appropriate way that being gay is ok, then maybe we won't have kids killing themselves because they are afraid to tell their parents that they might be gay.

they don't kill themselves because of coming out. they kill themselves because they come out and not everyone drops what they are doing and applaud them for being the special little snowflake they think they are.

seta-san said,

they don't kill themselves because of coming out. they kill themselves because they come out and not everyone drops what they are doing and applaud them for being the special little snowflake they think they are.

Correct they don't kill themselves because they came out, they kill themselves because their parents disown them and are exiled from their families and friends. That is why, and how the hell would you know? did you have to go through that? no. So your comment isn't justifiable. That is like a man saying that a women shouldn't have an abortion because she was raped and doesn't want the baby. And that she needs to have that baby.

watsxn said,

Correct they don't kill themselves because they came out, they kill themselves because their parents disown them and are exiled from their families and friends. That is why, and how the hell would you know? did you have to go through that? no. So your comment isn't justifiable. That is like a man saying that a women shouldn't have an abortion because she was raped and doesn't want the baby. And that she needs to have that baby.

what would I care if a gay kid killed himself. at least he had and made his choice. the baby in the situation described did nothing wrong other than exist and has no say in his/her fate.

seta-san said,

what would I care if a gay kid killed himself. at least he had and made his choice. the baby in the situation described did nothing wrong other than exist and has no say in his/her fate.


If you were running for political office and posted "what would I care if a gay kid killed himself" online, you wouldn't be running anymore.

seta-san said,

what would I care if a gay kid killed himself. at least he had and made his choice. the baby in the situation described did nothing wrong other than exist and has no say in his/her fate.

So by that logic, the women wanted to be raped as well?

seta-san said,
..... because it's a game for small ####ing children who shouldn't be exposed to this #### yet.....

You do realize people are BORN gay?
I would much rather have my child know their blossoming feelings are tolerated in society.

I imagine a day when no one has to "come out" either way at any point in their life.

You are exactly right. The double standard for all this is mind boggling.

Yes, it's good that the world accepts gays and that children learn gays are tolerated.

What does this have to do with this game? Is this game the sole source of education for your child? People, COME ON! Parents control their child's learning experience, there are other modes of education than just games. And honestly I find it unbelievable that so many people are angry about this. I mean it's just a game, and I'm tired of seeing minority groups scapegoat stupid stuff like this as a reason to get angry and vocal and just further prove how intolerant they can be of differing views in society.

"You don't have gay relationships in your movie/game/book/whatever? You're against gays." <- that's all I get from the more unreasonable homosexual community. Tolerance does not mean they have to preach for or against it. It not being a feature doesn't point to either way. It's just simple... not in the game.

seta-san said,
and in my opinion if you do it once your gay forever.

It's not a disease...

Also not to be that guy, but its you're.

Hillary Clinton basically said the same thing regarding the Benghazi raid and still has a high likelihood of being president.

Nerd Rage said,

This is what I mean. If someone doesn't agree with your viewpoint, insult them. When in practice, if someone doesn't agree with homosexuality, someone fighting for freedom and rights should be saying something along the lines of: "Although I don't agree with your viewpoint, I respect your right to think that way." Instead, people who either don't understand or don't believe in homosexuality, are often met with "ignorant", "homophobic", "bigot".

If people are to have equal rights across the board, that includes people who don't believe the same way you do. I am actually in favor of gay marriage and all the rights that come with it, but I definitely think people are entitled to think otherwise and don't think less of them for doing so.

People with a distorted view of homosexuality is ignorant, those who are against giving homosexuals equal rights are bigots.
I wouldn't think you'd have any problem saying that anyone thinking of or treating some human race as inferior is a racist, and I don't see why it should be different with the homosexuality topic.

Everyone is free to believe whatever they want, but you aren't doing anyone any favor hiding from them what their beliefs turn them into.

Political correctness only gives bigots the idea that bigotry is and should be socially accepted, and tells ignorants that their ignorant arguments hold the same value as those from knowledge.

And if your skin is so thin that you can't stand being called upon your beliefs then maybe you could just keep them for yourself.

Edited by ichi, May 12 2014, 12:24pm :

ichi said,

I wouldn't think you'd have any problem saying that anyone thinking of or treating some human race as inferior is a racist, and I don't see why it should be different with the homosexuality topic.

Because racism and homosexuality are somewhat different topics. You can disagree with someone and not think them lesser for it. This isn't mutually exclusive and if you think anyone who disagrees with you is merely a bigot then you're just as bad as those you have a problem with.

Tolerance is about understanding that people are different. Skin, culture, sexual orientation, religious affiliation, etc and learning to live with that. Just because you're gay, or a minority group X doesn't give you the right to be loud about people not including you just because you are what you are. It's a game for heaven's sake.

Emn1ty said,

Because racism and homosexuality are somewhat different topics.

Why? Both involve rights acquired or denied based on characteristics you were born with.

Emn1ty said,
You can disagree with someone and not think them lesser for it. This isn't mutually exclusive and if you think anyone who disagrees with you is merely a bigot then you're just as bad as those you have a problem with.

That depends on what you are disagreeing about.

Being a bigot has nothing to with whether I'm in agreement or not, I could agree with homophobes or racists and they (or "we", in that case) would still be bigots.

Emn1ty said,
Tolerance is about understanding that people are different. Skin, culture, sexual orientation, religious affiliation, etc and learning to live with that. Just because you're gay, or a minority group X doesn't give you the right to be loud about people not including you just because you are what you are. It's a game for heaven's sake.

They are complaining, not suing and claiming they are legally entitled.

Heck, if people complained about the ending of Mass Effect why should these people not be able to complain too.

Edited by ichi, May 12 2014, 3:44pm :

ichi said,
Why? Both involve rights acquired or denied based on characteristics you were born with.

Race is something you cannot ever change. You cannot go to your genome and alter the fact you are of such and such ethnicity.

And no, you cannot alter your sexual orientation. BUT, you can control your own urges and desires. tendencies. Being unable to "control" ones behavior is not an excuse, nor justification for you to impose your beliefs on others. Humanity was born with a gift, a gift to choose what desires/instincts we want to follow and which not to. It's called judgement and self-awareness, logic and reason.

Many people like to say "well i'm just that way cause I was born that way." That's not an excuse for rapists or murders, people who just were "born" with the disposition to enjoy causing harm to others. People make the choice to fulfill those desires. Just like every person makes a choice to pursue others of whatever sex they prefer. You don't just let your body run wild with hormones. Being gay may not be a choice, but living a gay lifestyle an being imposing that lifestyle on others IS a choice.

ichi said,

That depends on what you are disagreeing about.

No it doesn't. I can for example dislike chocolate. Just because you like chocolate doesn't make me hate you for liking chocolate, no more than it makes the restaurant anti-chocolate if they didn't serve it. That simple.

ichi said,

Being a bigot has nothing to with whether I'm in agreement or not, I could agree with homophobes or racists and they (or "we", in that case) would still be bigots.

Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

You don't know what a bigot is. A bigot is someone who is so utterly devoted to their thoughts that they will at times go out of their way to impose those thoughts and beliefs on others with complete disregard for their own right to an opinion.

ichi said,

They are complaining, not suing and claiming they are legally entitled.

But words such as these: "Now days, it's down right discrimination to not accept our fellow human beings as being exactly that. Human beings." Is just uncalled for. It's a logical fallacy, even.

ichi said,

Heck, if people complained about the ending of Mass Effect why should these people not be able to complain too.

Cause this isn't really about a feature being left from the game, it's being turned into a civil rights issue instead of a game feature issue. That's the problem.

Emn1ty said,

Race is something you cannot ever change. You cannot go to your genome and alter the fact you are of such and such ethnicity.

And no, you cannot alter your sexual orientation. BUT, you can control your own urges and desires. tendencies. Being unable to "control" ones behavior is not an excuse, nor justification for you to impose your beliefs on others. Humanity was born with a gift, a gift to choose what desires/instincts we want to follow and which not to. It's called judgement and self-awareness, logic and reason.

Are you seriously advocating that gays and lesbians should refrain themselves from being with the persons they love?

Why exactly? Because it makes you feel uncomfortable? They don't deserve to be happy just because a complete stranger that has nothing to do with their lives feels uncomfortable?

Emn1ty said,

Many people like to say "well i'm just that way cause I was born that way." That's not an excuse for rapists or murders, people who just were "born" with the disposition to enjoy causing harm to others. People make the choice to fulfill those desires.

And now comparing homosexuals with rapists and murderers? Just wow.

Emn1ty said,

Just like every person makes a choice to pursue others of whatever sex they prefer. You don't just let your body run wild with hormones. Being gay may not be a choice, but living a gay lifestyle an being imposing that lifestyle on others IS a choice.

Imposing their gay lifestyle? Really?

WTF man, living with the partner you love is now imposing on others WHAT exactly?

Emn1ty said,

No it doesn't. I can for example dislike chocolate. Just because you like chocolate doesn't make me hate you for liking chocolate, no more than it makes the restaurant anti-chocolate if they didn't serve it. That simple.

Which is fine. You don't like chocolate, so don't have chocolate.

I like chocolate. Should I control my desires to have it so you don't feel I'm imposing my chocolate-eater lifestyle on you?

Emn1ty said,

Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

You don't know what a bigot is. A bigot is someone who is so utterly devoted to their thoughts that they will at times go out of their way to impose those thoughts and beliefs on others with complete disregard for their own right to an opinion.

Yeah, like doing all you can so gays and lesbians can't marry even though them being married doesn't affect your own life in the least bit.

That's bigotry.


Emn1ty said,

But words such as these: "Now days, it's down right discrimination to not accept our fellow human beings as being exactly that. Human beings." Is just uncalled for. It's a logical fallacy, even.

Well, maybe that's how they feel?

I'd guess you aren't gay. Do you feel threatened by them? Why does a petition for being able to take the way they live to a game that's precisely about virtually representing the way you live bother you so much?

Emn1ty said,

Cause this isn't really about a feature being left from the game, it's being turned into a civil rights issue instead of a game feature issue. That's the problem.

I haven't heard anything about civil rights regarding the game, although the message is obviously related.

Let's put it this way: what if we had a social game with virtual avatar where I couldn't choose to be black? Yeah, we are probably (I hope so) ahead enough of that for it to hit any nerve, but wouldn't that be a big WTF? Would it be so damn hard to add a couple more skins?
Did the devs forget that black people did exist when they were designing the game?

What if in the game woman characters couldn't choose technical professions for their avatars, but only cooks, gardeners and housewives? Wouldn't that give you the idea that, even if unintended, the game would be sending a message?

I would have believed anyway that your problem with all this was that it was being taken in a direction that goes beyong what should be just a complain about a game, but given your first lines on that post I'm now thinking that you'd just have a serious issue with gays and lesbians being allowed in the game, no matter how they went about requesting that.

Edited by ichi, May 12 2014, 10:34pm :

You are right now projecting an image of a person who doesn't exist. I have gay friends, my sister is a lesbian. I have zero problems with that. Yes, I am not gay.

The problem here, the real issue, is that gay rights "activists" believe that having an opinion differing from theirs is just as bad as actively participating in anti-gay activities.

The reality is that, we can all have whatever opinion or thoughts we want. If you think that I can't think or choose what I want to believe then you sir are the bigot. I won't stop you from accepting or practicing being gay. But when that act imposes itself on my way of life and what I am and am not allowed to think or believe (my freedoms as a human being) then that is when bigotry comes into play.

I am not saying that merely being gay and living a gay lifestyle is an imposition on me. I'm saying that those who go out of their way to tell others that their way of thinking is wrong and cannot be tolerated are the bigots. And that's true on both sides, pro or anti-homosexuality.

Your first mistake in this discussion is assuming I have a problem with gays. I don't. I have a problem with vocal minorities who do nothing but complain and constantly feel entitled to have others acknowledge and accept them for what they are, no matter what their personal beliefs may be. Aka, I hate actual bigots. The ones who can't tolerate me for being, well me.

I'm projecting? You said that gays and lesbians should be controlling their desires, and then compared them with rapists and murderers. How am I supposed to take that exactly?

You still didn't explain how exactly are homosexuals imposing their gay lifestyle on you.

And why do you feel that gays asking the acceptable what they are (which is the way they were born and has nothing to with beliefs) have anything to do at all with respecting you, specially if as you stated you have no problem with gays?

Edited by ichi, May 13 2014, 5:03am :

ichi said,
I'm projecting? You said that gays and lesbians should be controlling their desires, and then compared them with rapists and murderers. How am I supposed to take that exactly?

You still didn't explain how exactly are homosexuals imposing their gay lifestyle on you.

And why do you feel that gays asking to be accepted the way they are (which is the way they were born and has nothing to with beliefs) has anything to do at all with respecting and accepting you, specially if as you stated you have no problem with gays?

Ah crap, fleksy's autocorrector does weird things sometimes :(

ichi said,
I'm projecting? You said that gays and lesbians should be controlling their desires, and then compared them with rapists and murderers. How am I supposed to take that exactly?

Well, you're getting focused on the wrong part of the comparison. I'm not equating gays and lesbians to murderers and rapists. I'm saying, that "because I am that way" is not justification for anything. I said it several times.

ichi said,

You still didn't explain how exactly are homosexuals imposing their gay lifestyle on you.

They don't to me, directly. But like any group of people who feel they are owed something by society for whatever levels of discrimination they are/were put through I feel the loud and vocal ones tend to be far more unreasonable than necessary. Often times doing exactly what they seek to fight against. Bigotry.

ichi said,

And why do you feel that gays asking the acceptable what they are (which is the way they were born and has nothing to with beliefs) have anything to do at all with respecting you, specially if as you stated you have no problem with gays?

Asking is fine. But there's a lot more than kindly asking for the feature in future installments or being disappointed at it's lack of inclusion. To me it seems like people want to downright paint Nintendo as anti-gay just because gay couples aren't in a game they made. That's my perception at least.

Emn1ty said,

Well, you're getting focused on the wrong part of the comparison. I'm not equating gays and lesbians to murderers and rapists. I'm saying, that "because I am that way" is not justification for anything. I said it several times.

No for everything certainly, but for living your life the way that makes you happy without hurting anyone?

It's not comparable in any way with rape and murder.


They don't to me, directly.

Indirectly then? How?

But like any group of people who feel they are owed something by society for whatever levels of discrimination they are/were put through I feel the loud and vocal ones tend to be far more unreasonable than necessary. Often times doing exactly what they seek to fight against. Bigotry.

Hmm as long as we are talking about equal rights then it's not a feeling of being owed, it's a fact.

Every movement I remember where a group was claiming equal rights has been loud and overly vocal to try to disrupt the status quo.

Happened against racism and happens with feminism... Actually I'd dare say the gay movement is so far quite quiet compared to those other two.


Asking is fine. But there's a lot more than kindly asking for the feature in future installments or being disappointed at it's lack of inclusion. To me it seems like people want to downright paint Nintendo as anti-gay just because gay couples aren't in a game they made. That's my perception at least.

Girl toys like Barbies have often been qualified as misogynistic. That doesn't mean that companies like Mattel and the like are misogynistic themselves, it's a representation of a cultural mindset where women are objectified. Object not as in "things" but as opposed to "subject", ie. supposed fit the role men think would be adequate for them regardless of what women want for themselves.

I see a similar thing here, where not including same sex marriage as an option is a reflection of the cultural mindset where same sex relationships should be repressed or kept hidden.

ichi said,

No for everything certainly, but for living your life the way that makes you happy without hurting anyone?

That's the idea of something being unethical. If it doesn't affect them it doesn't matter. But this is affecting a business' reputation, the developer's reputation. It's an effort at slander and an excuse to get mad about something insignificant in the scheme of gay rights.


Indirectly then? How?

You are trying really, really hard to find where my problem is with gays, as if I have one. I don't. Stop making this about me, cause that's not what this is about.


Hmm as long as we are talking about equal rights then it's not a feeling of being owed, it's a fact.

Every movement I remember where a group was claiming equal rights has been loud and overly vocal to try to disrupt the status quo.

Happened against racism and happens with feminism... Actually I'd dare say the gay movement is so far quite quiet compared to those other two.


And yet we feel the need to be so vocal and angered by a simple videogame? They are people as well, with every right to make the game they want to make. Just as you have the right to buy it or not, or be gay or not. The bigotry here is assuming that others have address your social norm in their product. Should we start making gay barbies and kens? How about trans barbies and kens? Or maybe... pansexual and polyamorous barbie(s) and ken(s)? Is a company really obligated to play to every single group of people in existence because that group feels entitled to that recognition?

I mean... it's not even an actual feature. It was supposedly a bug in the japanese version. Not to mention you can't even control your character in the game so I don't think you could control whether or not the character was gay or straight in the first place.


Girl toys like Barbies have often been qualified as misogynistic. That doesn't mean that companies like Mattel and the like are misogynistic themselves, it's a representation of a cultural mindset where women are objectified. Object not as in "things" but as opposed to "subject", ie. supposed fit the role men think would be adequate for them regardless of what women want for themselves.

And yet we have a Ken doll. I don't even understand how you can seriously believe that Barbie toys are there to establish a dominance over women by men. And with that mention i'll be done here because this conversation has left the realm of reality and traversed into that of paranoia.


I see a similar thing here, where not including same sex marriage as an option is a reflection of the cultural mindset where same sex relationships should be repressed or kept hidden.

Or perhaps homosexuality isn't a big topic in japan and it just wasn't something the developers thought about? I mean... seriously. It's a freaking game. If you don't like it. Just... don't... buy it.

Edited by Emn1ty, May 13 2014, 7:54am :

Emn1ty said,

That's the idea of something being unethical. If it doesn't affect them it doesn't matter. But this is affecting a business' reputation, the developer's reputation. It's an effort at slander and an excuse to get mad about something insignificant in the scheme of gay rights.

It'd be slander if they were accusing Nintendo of being homophobes, which afaik they aren't doing.


You are trying really, really hard to find where my problem is with gays, as if I have one. I don't. Stop making this about me, cause that's not what this is about.

When you argue with someone you can only work with what the other person gives in order to figure out that person's position.

If I read that gays should be repressing their instincts and a comparison between being gay and being a rapist or a murderer, I think it's understandable that I might get the impression that you might have a problem with that.

And yet we feel the need to be so vocal and angered by a simple videogame? They are people as well, with every right to make the game they want to make. Just as you have the right to buy it or not, or be gay or not. The bigotry here is assuming that others have address your social norm in their product.

They don't have to, as proven by the fact the they didn't.
That doesn't mean that gays can't request that feature, and also express their opinion about how it's unfortunate that recognition of same sex marriage is something that has to be requested.

Should we start making gay barbies and kens?

Barby and Ken can be perfectly homosexual the way they are now, there's nothing actually distinctively straight about them.

I mean... it's not even an actual feature. It was supposedly a bug in the japanese version. Not to mention you can't even control your character in the game so I don't think you could control whether or not the character was gay or straight in the first place.

It's not about controlling your character, just about gay marriage. Like if you where not allowed to set your relationship status on Facebook to being in a relationship with someone of your same sex.


And yet we have a Ken doll. I don't even understand how you can seriously believe that Barbie toys are there to establish a dominance over women by men.

I explicitly said that they are a reflection of a cultural mindset, not a tool for the establishment of such.
They just help to keep the stereotypes going.

Are you saying that girl toys haven't traditionaly been supportive of misogynistic role models? And not out of some hidden agendas, mind you, just because society as a whole was misogynistic itself.

Or perhaps homosexuality isn't a big topic in japan and it just wasn't something the developers thought about?

Maybe, although homosexuality is quite present in Japanese artwork.

I mean... seriously. It's a freaking game. If you don't like it. Just... don't... buy it.

Of course, but if you are interested in the game you can also request features you'd want.
It's not like feature requests were a novelty.

Kinda surprised by many of the comments here. I thought the community was more enlightened. People just want to be treated equally and fairly, and its a joke when people basically say 'I don't have a problem with gay people but stop forcing me to accept they exist'.

Edited by Haggis, May 11 2014, 7:54pm :

Joswin said,
Kinda surprised by many of the comments here. I thought the community was more enlightened. People just want to be treated equally and fairly, and its a joke when people basically say 'I don't have a problem with gay people but stop forcing me to accept they exist'.

we shouldn't even be discussing this. these games are for pre-teens. Small children. We really shouldn't be throwing the gay thing at them. If this was an option in a game rated for teens there would be far less objection. The other disturbing thing about it is how quickly after gay marriage received over 50% support from the American public how quickly they became bullies... But that's what I've always said about the social justice warrior crowd.. social justice is tool that the disenfranchised use to become the bullies they always wanted to be.

Edited by Haggis, May 11 2014, 7:02pm :

seta-san said,

we shouldn't even be discussing this. these games are for pre-teens. Small children.

Therefore they shouldn't have the option for relationships at all, let alone marriage; those are quite mature themes. Children are perfectly capable of understanding that people can love people even if they're the same sex.

seta-san said,

we shouldn't even be discussing this. these games are for pre-teens. Small children. We really shouldn't be throwing the gay thing at them. If this was an option in a game rated for teens there would be far less objection. The other disturbing thing about it is how quickly after gay marriage received over 50% support from the American public how quickly they became bullies... But that's what I've always said about the social justice warrior crowd.. social justice is tool that the disenfranchised use to become the bullies they always wanted to be.

You say bully I say finally get what is deserved. People, all people deserve the same rights that everyone else has.

seta-san said,
we shouldn't even be discussing this. these games are for pre-teens. Small children. We really shouldn't be throwing the gay thing at them.

What? Is it? Isn't it this for use by everyone young and old. Also are you really pulling the 'save the children' card? From what? The evil homosexual agenda ......

I think its better to teach children that its OK to be whoever they are from a young age. You don't catch homosexuality, nor is it a choice or lifestyle. It's who you are. You like men, women, both, neither. That's just how life is. The most un-natural part is how we as a species are so afraid of what's different, and how we react to it with hate and violence. Truly disturbing.

What's with this forced same-sex media prostitution nowadays? Feels like islamic extremism trying to force itself down people's throats. People's sexual orientation is fine, but pushing that crap all the time especially on known companies is disgusting.

There's no problem with being gay, but don't act like it's a majority, as it's not. far from it.

SiCKX said,
What's with this forced same-sex media prostitution nowadays? Feels like islamic extremism trying to force itself down people's throats. People's sexual orientation is fine, but pushing that crap all the time especially on known companies is disgusting.

There's no problem with being gay, but don't act like it's a majority, as it's not. far from it.

That is like say since black people aren't the majority They can't be in this game either. How the hell is that logical?

You show me at least a continent of homosexuals first, then apologize. How can you even compare? You know a huge land called Homosexualia? I sure as feck don't.

It's cool that Nintendo's paying attention, their wording of "not wanting to offer social commentary" was boneheaded... It's strong commentary when you choose to ignore a certain facet of reality.

There will always be people who want to hate those who are different from them, or at least not accept them. Trying to change them is futile and will only cause you misery trying to do so.

Just ignore the haters and embrace those who love you for who you are, of which there are plenty.

The funny thing is many Japanese versions of Nintendo games have many references to gay characters, characters who have undergone gender changes etc and it's fine.

Then Nintendo of America gets the censorship pen out and removes everything remotely offensive to anybody, including covering up scantily clad characters, removing references to alcohol, drugs and cigarettes.

Usually I'm behind Nintendo but this time they need to get with the times.
I think they'll come around eventually before the media s***storm hits them hard.

i'm more willing to bet that they just won't make international releases of games like this again... or maybe just avoid making this kind of game all together.

seta-san said,
i'm more willing to bet that they just won't make international releases of games like this again... or maybe just avoid making this kind of game all together.

Yeahhhhhhh, no.

why? making that game is only going to pee off someone. it's either going to pee off the pro-gay or anti-gay people. they have more to lose by pissing off the anti-gay people since they are more likely to have small children who play this game. The pro-gay people tend to be white and upper middle class and have fewer children.

seta-san said,
why? making that game is only going to pee off someone. it's either going to pee off the pro-gay or anti-gay people. they have more to lose by pissing off the anti-gay people since they are more likely to have small children who play this game. The pro-gay people tend to be white and upper middle class and have fewer children.

You're making the mistake of assuming that the rest of the world shares the same level of homophobic bigotry as your part of the world, and unfortunately for you it does not.

seta-san said,
why? making that game is only going to pee off someone. it's either going to pee off the pro-gay or anti-gay people. they have more to lose by pissing off the anti-gay people since they are more likely to have small children who play this game. The pro-gay people tend to be white and upper middle class and have fewer children.

Really? because not all gay peoeple are upper class or white. They are the ones that just tend to be more out spoke because they have a vehicle in which to do it. Tell that to all the people in south america.

They had NOTHING to apologize for. It wasn't an intentional slight and the gay community should learn to put on their big-boy pants for once and chill the heck out.

How about the straight community put on their big-boy pants and just accept the fact that we need to be represented too, and not just as a sassy talking prop for comic relief. We're wearing our big pants and have been every time we watch a romantic movie surrounded around the relationship of a man and a woman, hell, nearly all movies since most have a romantic component. We have our big-boy pants on when we can't be publicly affectionate with our lovers in fear of attack and ridiculed. We have our big-boy pants on when we find out that one of our fellow LGBT members takes their own life because it was too much for them to handle and they [felt] had no one to turn to.

It may have not been an intentional slight, but it's a clear lack of inclusion. You can say, "Oh well it's a kids game." To which I will reply, "Then why include mature themes such as relationships and marriage in the first place?"

Nogib said,
They had NOTHING to apologize for. It wasn't an intentional slight and the gay community should learn to put on their big-boy pants for once and chill the heck out.

We are not talking about Iran or Russia here. Understand that.
Here LGBT people can live and not get their heads chopped off or thrown in jail, so being represented is not much to ask for.

Not every culture and country on earth has to cater to you! There are many places on earth that don't cater to my lifestyle, eating habits or entertainment choices, its called life, get over it! God, its like dealing with a bratty toddler who throws a tantrum when you don't give everything his/her hands reach for.

It's a lot of double standards here and there. It really feeds the fire that reptiles run this world (which I'm a firm believer in, but not in the David Icke extremism).

Indeed you're right, the world does not (nor should it be forced to) cater to "ANYONE". Now I don't mind folks doing what they want with their lives, I'm not against "this" or "that"... But this is Intelectual Property we're talking about here. They don't have to buy it if they don't like it... Yeesh.

Here's two weirdo examples regarding this issue:

1 - It is the ULTIMATE taboo for anyone to TRY to tell Islamists to accept same sex.
2 - It is the ULTIMATE taboo for anyone NOT to advocate same sex in Christianity.

It is a reptillian agenda to divide and conquer us all!!!

There's no need to cater to less than 5% of the population... Especially when your brand is the 'family friendly' brand

seta-san said,
There's no need to cater to less than 5% of the population... Especially when your brand is the 'family friendly' brand

Agreed!

seta-san said,
There's no need to cater to less than 5% of the population... Especially when your brand is the 'family friendly' brand

5% of the population is still about 350 million people, more than the US, not to mention that estimate you're quoting is now viewed as a conservative, lower number, with most studies now agreeing the actual number being 8-14% now.

And knowing your posting history, I'm just feeding the troll, but last I checked I'm part of a family too... so your family friendly argument goes out the window... maybe your convoluted view of family, but certainly not mine nor the growing majority either.

shockz said,

5% of the population is still about 350 million people, more than the US, not to mention that estimate you're quoting is now viewed as a conservative, lower number, with most studies now agreeing the actual number being 8-14% now.

And knowing your posting history, I'm just feeding the troll, but last I checked I'm part of a family too... so your family friendly argument goes out the window... maybe your convoluted view of family, but certainly not mine nor the growing majority either.

5% of 6.17 million consoles sold is only 308500.. and keep in mind that 5% is a high number. most stats have it lower but I'm going to go with 5% to compensate for closeted gays/under-reporting. Those aren't customers that you're alienating so much as not catering to on this one game. So that 5% who likely weren't going to get a crappy version of 2nd life to begin with.. still aren't. boohoo.

seta-san said,

5% of 6.17 million consoles sold is only 308500.. and keep in mind that 5% is a high number. most stats have it lower but I'm going to go with 5% to compensate for closeted gays/under-reporting. Those aren't customers that you're alienating so much as not catering to on this one game. So that 5% who likely weren't going to get a crappy version of 2nd life to begin with.. still aren't. boohoo.

So you're just pulling numbers out of your ass then...

seta-san said,
There's no need to cater to less than 5% of the population... Especially when your brand is the 'family friendly' brand

What is family unfriendly about love?

seta-san said,
There's no need to cater to less than 5% of the population... Especially when your brand is the 'family friendly' brand

Yes! and actually out of that 5% the amount of homosexuals that even care about marriage or any other special rights and privileges is less than 3% of all gays.

That means that around 97% of all homosexuals don't even care whatsoever about being granted special rights and privileges at all.

Now, can somebody show me proof of this so-called "gay gene"?
We can land man on the moon and even clone animals, where is this "gay gene" hiding and why can't we find proof of its existence?

seta-san said,
There's no need to cater to less than 5% of the population... Especially when your brand is the 'family friendly' brand

That is so incredibly offensive. How are gay people and gay couples not family friendly? I know tons of gay people that live normal RELIGIOUS life styles that don't seem like they are gay at all until you get introduced to their wife/husband. They have kids and heck some of them even have white picket fences. How family friendly is that for you?

Order_66 said,

Yes! and actually out of that 5% the amount of homosexuals that even care about marriage or any other special rights and privileges is less than 3% of all gays.

That means that around 97% of all homosexuals don't even care whatsoever about being granted special rights and privileges at all.

Now, can somebody show me proof of this so-called "gay gene"?
We can land man on the moon and even clone animals, where is this "gay gene" hiding and why can't we find proof of its existence?

It's not about special right or privileges it's about the rights that everyone else gets. Why can't homosexuals get them as well? Why are we do different? I bet 80% of you met a gay person that you didn't know was gay and you said some hate stuff about homosexuals. How would you feel if the scenario was reversed and They did know a specific detail about your life and they talked trash about it. I am sure you would voice your opinion about the matter.

Order_66 said,

Yes! and actually out of that 5% the amount of homosexuals that even care about marriage or any other special rights and privileges is less than 3% of all gays.

That means that around 97% of all homosexuals don't even care whatsoever about being granted special rights and privileges at all.

Now, can somebody show me proof of this so-called "gay gene"?
We can land man on the moon and even clone animals, where is this "gay gene" hiding and why can't we find proof of its existence?

They're still looking for it. They're also looking for the, "straight gene." I mean, they haven't found any gene that determines one's sexuality, yet.

Order_66 said,

That means that around 97% of all homosexuals don't even care whatsoever about being granted special rights and privileges at all.

Maybe because no one is talking about special rights and privileges but rather the same rights and privileges as everyone else.

A large percentage of straight individuals won't ever get married either, even if they live with their partners. Does that mean they don't care about having the same rights as everyone else even if for whatever circunstance they have currently no intention of taking advantage of them?

I wouldn't think so.

seta-san said,
There's no need to cater to less than 5% of the population... Especially when your brand is the 'family friendly' brand

Oh, so gays aren't family friendly? Do you strive to protect your children from the evil homosexuals of the world do you?

ichi said,

Maybe because no one is talking about special rights and privileges but rather the same rights and privileges as everyone else.

Homosexuals have the exact same rights and privileges that heterosexuals have, there's nothing stopping a gay male from falling in love with and marrying a gay or even a straight female, nothing at all.

Order_66 said,

Homosexuals have the exact same rights and privileges that heterosexuals have, there's nothing stopping a gay male from falling in love with and marrying a gay or even a straight female, nothing at all.

haha well problem solved then... I can see the conversations every gay person must be having across the US then.. "Sorry honey, I can't marry you, but somehow I can reprogram my brain to be straight and go fall in love with someone that I'll never really be attracted to. You should too."

Order_66 said,

Homosexuals have the exact same rights and privileges that heterosexuals have, there's nothing stopping a gay male from falling in love with and marrying a gay or even a straight female, nothing at all.

So they'd have to pretend being straight in order to get the same social benefits straights get from marriage with their partners?

That's cool, it reminds me of Spain a few centuries ago, when they told Jews that they had the same rights as everyone else in the country: they could become christians, or die, or get the #### out of Spain.

benthebear said,

They're still looking for it. They're also looking for the, "straight gene." I mean, they haven't found any gene that determines one's sexuality, yet.


Technically its a deviation. Which could be a malfunctioning gene. Because natural selection does not really let gay people reproduce.

And for whatever its worth for homohaters, you've probably ate bacon from a homosexual pig.

"also setting itself way behind the times."

Wow. What an argument. What's politically correct in your area may not be right for others. Some consider morality. It's just a game, people.

Justin Luna said,
"also setting itself way behind the times."

Wow. What an argument. What's politically correct in your area may not be right for others. Some consider morality. It's just a game, people.

the ridiculous thing about that quote is that even if they are behind the times.. they are at best only FIVE years behind seeing as that it was just five years ago that CALIFORNIA voted for prop 8...

seta-san said,

the ridiculous thing about that quote is that even if they are behind the times.. they are at best only FIVE years behind seeing as that it was just five years ago that CALIFORNIA voted for prop 8...


Right, because California is the benchmark for the entire World.... /S
I am sorry you were not in Saint Tropez in the 60s' you missed a lot of fun....

Basically video games are being ruined by political correctness and first world problems being pushed by tumblr social justice warriors. These people are worse than jack thompson

seta-san said,
Basically video games are being ruined by political correctness and first world problems being pushed by tumblr social justice warriors. These people are worse than jack thompson

Yep ruined just like Bioware games, oh wait, it didn't.

I really don't see how this particular video game is ruined by this.

The zombie COD nation is what is ruining video games right now if you ask me.

why do we make such a big deal over this stuff...

what next, we have to include gay relationships in Mario just because he's always going to save the princess? why not save a prince?... blah blah blah..... people making problems just to complain about everything

It's not a huge deal, but unlike most games where you have a script and predefined characters, this is a social game where you play as yourself. There's absolutely no reason to keep LGBT options out other than bigotry (or more likely, fear of the potential reaction of bigots).

I mean, it's just a game, but it's a game that sends the same old message about same sex marriage not being something normal (since it's not even existant in there).

ichi said,
It's not a huge deal, but unlike most games where you have a script and predefined characters, this is a social game where you play as yourself. There's absolutely no reason to keep LGBT options out other than bigotry (or more likely, fear of the potential reaction of bigots).

I mean, it's just a game, but it's a game that sends the same old message about same sex marriage not being something normal (since it's not even existant in there).

It isn't normal. It's less than 5% of the population. And don't argue with me that there is no such thing as normal because math/statistics would like to disagree with you

ichi said,
It's not a huge deal, but unlike most games where you have a script and predefined characters, this is a social game where you play as yourself. There's absolutely no reason to keep LGBT options out other than bigotry (or more likely, fear of the potential reaction of bigots).

I mean, it's just a game, but it's a game that sends the same old message about same sex marriage not being something normal (since it's not even existant in there).

Because Nintendo is a family brand I just don't think we'll see another release

seta-san said,

It isn't normal. It's less than 5% of the population. And don't argue with me that there is no such thing as normal because math/statistics would like to disagree with you

OK, my bad, let me rephrase: "I mean, it's just a game, but it's a game that sends the same old message about same sex marriage not being something perfectly correct (since it's not even existant in there)."

seta-san said,

It isn't normal. It's less than 5% of the population. And don't argue with me that there is no such thing as normal because math/statistics would like to disagree with you

In some places they kill you for being gay. You really think we're getting accurate numbers for that type of question. There are more LGBT people out there than you think.

Just make a game where whites can only marry whites. Screw political correctness, if a developer wants to be a bigot, let them. People will just opt not to buy their games and when their revenue is in the toilet, maybe then they'll figure out what they're doing wrong.

Heck, you can bypass the politics altogether by looking at this in a consumer/demand sort of way. With that being said, a business might consider excluding basic options might be more trouble than simply implementing the extra logic to accommodate gender preference.

This is the only real logic here, as a business who may not care about the gamer may still want to maximize the return on their investment.

seta-san said,

It isn't normal. It's less than 5% of the population. And don't argue with me that there is no such thing as normal because math/statistics would like to disagree with you


LOL more like 5% that are willing to admit is 1 in every 10 people are homosexual. how about math and statistics for you? and what is .1 multiplied by like 9 billion? 900 million people. STATISTICALLY are homosexual.

I don't mind the whole issue outside video games, but people complain too much over something that isn't forever. But why do I care..

JHBrown said,
Political correctness today is so annoying at times.

It's not political correctness anymore when this sort of thing isn't included in a game. This is normal now, it's about time the world realised that some human beings are attracted to the same sex. It's not different or against the norm.

Now days, it's down right discrimination to not accept our fellow human beings as being exactly that. Human beings.

Yep, granting people equality has a tendency to get under the skin of bigots. The characters in this game are avatars of their real life owners, and if people are gay in real life it simply makes sense to offer them the same relationship options as everyone else.

So if someone practices something in real life, that automatically means the game has a responsibility to account for it? I just want to make sure I'm understanding your point correctly. Why can't Nintendo just pick and choose what experience it wants its users to have?

Javik said,
Yep, granting people equality has a tendency to get under the skin of bigots.

How about all the anti-religious bigots on this site? I don't them pushing for any tolerance and equality for those who are religious

Nintendo can pick and choose, and they actually did.

When it comes to Tomodachi Life though, you aren't playing as some predefined character, you are using an avatar that represents yourself even in physical aspect.

Considering that the intention is socializing inside the game as a virtual representation of yourself it seems weird that only people of a certain sexual orientation are allowed to represent their relationships in-game.

The fact they choosed to keep same sex marriage out tells LGBT people that their way of life is dependant on the opinion of the majority, which is alienating.

If we are to move past bigotry then these options should be offered exactly the same as different sex marriage any time if fits the script (which in this case it clearly does) and not left out just to not hurt the sensibilities of bigots.

I don't always complain that my "way of life" isn't the norm, but when I do, I prefer to discuss it with people close to me, and not get some 'organization' to do it for me.

Stay thirsty, my friends.

ians18 said,

How about all the anti-religious bigots on this site? I don't them pushing for any tolerance and equality for those who are religious

People deserve respect, beliefs don't.

davidvkimball said,
So if someone practices something in real life, that automatically means the game has a responsibility to account for it? I just want to make sure I'm understanding your point correctly. Why can't Nintendo just pick and choose what experience it wants its users to have?

Quite simple: you, me and everybody else decide what we are; it is not a corporation the entity which dictate it.

ichi said,

People deserve respect, beliefs don't.

If you don't respect beliefs, then how do you respect people? You can't pick and choose.

JHBrown said,
If you don't respect beliefs, then how do you respect people? You can't pick and choose.

It's not picking and choosing, they are two completely separate things.

Just because I respect people doesn't mean I have to respect that someone might believe that 2+2=6 or that non-white races are inferior.

ians18 said,

How about all the anti-religious bigots on this site? I don't them pushing for any tolerance and equality for those who are religious

Show me where people are advocating that you cannot practice your religion as you choose. Show me where people are pushing through laws to restrict how you practice your religion. Last time I checked, there are laws that specifically protect your right to practice your religion, and nobody is threatening those laws. Unless you think that you have some special right to force other people to practice your religion?

Nashy said,

It's not political correctness anymore when this sort of thing isn't included in a game. This is normal now, it's about time the world realised that some human beings are attracted to the same sex. It's not different or against the norm.

Normal?? NORMAL?? I agree that people should not discriminate and should accept other human's sexual orientations. But No, there is nothing normal about homosexuality. Saying that it's normal goes against millions of years of evolution of animal life on this planet.

ians18 said,

How about all the anti-religious bigots on this site? I don't them pushing for any tolerance and equality for those who are religious

Religious equality doesn't mean granting religious people the freedom to discriminate against others. Religious people really seem completely unable to grasp the idea that religious freedom has never implied any right to impose their beliefs on others.

davidvkimball said,
So if someone practices something in real life, that automatically means the game has a responsibility to account for it? I just want to make sure I'm understanding your point correctly. Why can't Nintendo just pick and choose what experience it wants its users to have?

Living a gay-lifestyle is not a practice. I (we) don't choose to be gay, like a doctor or religious person chooses to practice medicine or religion, respectively. It is apart of life and love and we cannot control it. Nintendo set out to create a virtual world in which people can represent themselves, and failed to include a portion of society that is the most vocal in getting widespread acceptance for those suffering from something they cannot control and isn't physically harming anyone.

underthebridge said,

Normal?? NORMAL?? I agree that people should not discriminate and should accept other human's sexual orientations. But No, there is nothing normal about homosexuality. Saying that it's normal goes against millions of years of evolution of animal life on this planet.


Such arguments can be summarized by "Humans are animals, nothing more, and should mindlessly breed as animals"

wixostrix said,
Living a gay-lifestyle is not a practice. I (we) don't choose to be gay, like a doctor or religious person chooses to practice medicine or religion, respectively. It is apart of life and love and we cannot control it. Nintendo set out to create a virtual world in which people can represent themselves, and failed to include a portion of society that is the most vocal in getting widespread acceptance for those suffering from something they cannot control and isn't physically harming anyone.

Glad you picked up on that too. I didn't realize loving someone was a practice. Better watch out Nintendo! I just might practice loving a chocolate woman! :woot:

Why not? people pick and choose the "laws and rules" they want to abide by that are stated in the bible. No one follows the bible to 100% they CHOOSE to do somethings and not others.

"How about all the anti-religious bigots on this site? I don't them pushing for any tolerance and equality for those who are religious"

Why should they have to? Religion has to much power as it is. That is like say "how come black people can have a black history month and white people cannot have a white history month" it's because every day life is most area's of the world are dictated by religion. So how about you stop complaining, and get with the times.

underthebridge said,

Normal?? NORMAL?? I agree that people should not discriminate and should accept other human's sexual orientations. But No, there is nothing normal about homosexuality. Saying that it's normal goes against millions of years of evolution of animal life on this planet.

LOL please pass what you're smoking. homosexuality is present is 99.9 percent of the animal and human kingdoms, and homophobia is only present in 1. Homosexuality has been documented in all types of animal species, and humans have been doing it since our existence. The Greek used to have a saying "a women for procreation and a man for pleasure" So yeah homosexuality is "normal"

watsxn said,

LOL please pass what you're smoking. homosexuality is present is 99.9 percent of the animal and human kingdoms, and homophobia is only present in 1. Homosexuality has been documented in all types of animal species, and humans have been doing it since our existence. The Greek used to have a saying "a women for procreation and a man for pleasure" So yeah homosexuality is "normal"

This guy is using Greek history to back up his claim? This won't end well.

Edited by JHBrown, May 11 2014, 9:24pm :

JHBrown said,
This guy is using Greek history to back up his claim? This won't end well.
Who else would you like me to referance? the Romans. The Vikings? Ancient Egyptians? I have all day if you'd like. Oh and last time I checked they was more documented and proven history about those civilizations than there is about "Jesus Christ"

watsxn said,
Why not? people pick and choose the "laws and rules" they want to abide by that are stated in the bible. No one follows the bible to 100% they CHOOSE to do somethings and not others.

It's impossible to follow everything in the Bible to 100% God knew this which is why he sent his Son. Rules are not what Christianity is about. Christianity is not about rules and regulations, but about the Grace of God, since he has died and rose again, there is a way to get to Heaven, even though every single man and woman has broke at least one "rule".

And how is that even relevant to the discussion.

ians18 said,

It's impossible to follow everything in the Bible to 100% God knew this which is why he sent his Son. Rules are not what Christianity is about. Christianity is not about rules and regulations, but about the Grace of God, since he has died and rose again, there is a way to get to Heaven, even though every single man and woman has broke at least one "rule".

And how is that even relevant to the discussion.

Thank you for that because you proved my point, it's all open to interpretation. Example " Thou shall not lie with a man as one lies with a women" That could mean don't have sex with a man, as one would have sex with a women, or you should not tell a lie to a man like you would tell a lie to a women. Further more why does anything need to be restricted by religious beliefs? Why is there a game that is supposed to be targeted at a wide audience cater to only one specific way of thinking? is it because of the general conscientious? or is it out of fear that if said company doesn't do it this way they fear repercussion

watsxn said,

Thank you for that because you proved my point, it's all open to interpretation. Example " Thou shall not lie with a man as one lies with a women" That could mean don't have sex with a man, as one would have sex with a women, or you should not tell a lie to a man like you would tell a lie to a women. Further more why does anything need to be restricted by religious beliefs? Why is there a game that is supposed to be targeted at a wide audience cater to only one specific way of thinking? is it because of the general conscientious? or is it out of fear that if said company doesn't do it this way they fear repercussion


Of course the Bible is full of freedoms, if one lets say get circumcised that should not be rejected as a bad thing or mutilation, that is his personal decision, but the true meaning behind that is no longer necessary, as it was meant to sacrifice a part of yourself. Since Jesus came and took that sacrifice himself, it renders the practice not useless (as society may try to argue) , but not necessary to get to Heaven. As for homosexuality, that is pleasure, temptations, etc. Jesus did not take pleasure or temptations away, because He lets you have a choice. That is not cherry picking, but rather what truly is relevant and what is not. Some say it is now the "social norm" or "the way we do things now", but rather what you view as cherry picking, is what has relevance (by God's standards) not by social standards. At least if you are a true Christian, it shouldn't be because of Social Standards, remember Christians ARE humans and all humans make mistakes no matter what.

ians18 said,

Of course the Bible is full of freedoms, if one lets say get circumcised that should not be rejected as a bad thing or mutilation, that is his personal decision, but the true meaning behind that is no longer necessary, as it was meant to sacrifice a part of yourself. Since Jesus came and took that sacrifice himself, it renders the practice not useless (as society may try to argue) , but not necessary to get to Heaven. As for homosexuality, that is pleasure, temptations, etc. Jesus did not take pleasure or temptations away, because He lets you have a choice. That is not cherry picking, but rather what truly is relevant and what is not. Some say it is now the "social norm" or "the way we do things now", but rather what you view as cherry picking, is what has relevance (by God's standards) not by social standards. At least if you are a true Christian, it shouldn't be because of Social Standards, remember Christians ARE humans and all humans make mistakes no matter what.

I totally get that, but the problem is that the "true Christians" are out weight by "half-way Christians" And to your point about circumcision it was more home a health matter, and can't be attributed as a religious superstition. The Romans and Greeks, and Egyptians all practiced it, and have different gods.

ians18 said,

How about all the anti-religious bigots on this site? I don't them pushing for any tolerance and equality for those who are religious

Being anti religious-bigot sounds like a good thing to me...

Shiranui said,

Being anti religious-bigot sounds like a good thing to me...

Too bad I actually meant anti-religious bigot as I put.

ians18 said,

Too bad I actually meant anti-religious bigot as I put.


Blind acceptance of religious authority without question.
The need to protect comfort provided by an irrational belief, even with violence and discrimination.
Justification of actions without a rational basis.
Us versus them mentality.

Being anti-religious is simply realizing that religious is a sickness, an addiction of the common mind - a common mind that cannot justify its actions without faith and cannot fathom a material word governed by only laws of man and nature.

Being anti-religious is realizing that argument that verges on or is inspired by faith is an argument of a weak man that cannot accept harsh and unpleasant truths of a material world.

Edited by _Alexander, May 12 2014, 3:59am :

_Alexander said,

Blind acceptance of religious authority without question.
The need to protect comfort provided by an irrational belief, even with violence and discrimination.
Justification of actions without a rational basis.
Us versus them mentality.

Being anti-religious is simply realizing that religious is a sickness, an addiction of the common mind - a common mind that cannot justify its actions without faith and cannot fathom a material word governed by only laws of man and nature.

Being anti-religious is realizing that argument that verges on or is inspired by faith is an argument of a weak man that cannot accept harsh and unpleasant truths of a material world.


Now you're just personal, it is my decision to accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior, and hopefully one day it would be yours too. The Bible DOES state the material world is harsh and unpleasant. This is the last comment, I don't want to get into an argument, as this is a tech site not a religious trolling site.

ians18 said,

Now you're just personal, it is my decision to accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior, and hopefully one day it would be yours too. The Bible DOES state the material world is harsh and unpleasant. This is the last comment, I don't want to get into an argument, as this is a tech site not a religious trolling site.

I'd be interested to hear your views in a separate thread.