Nokia: We are doing "more than enough" for Lumia owners

Windows Phone 8 was officially announced on Wednesday. However, Microsoft also confirmed long standing rumors that current generation Windows Phone devices won't be able to get the full Windows Phone 8 upgrade. Instead, those smartphones will receive an update to Windows Phone 7.8 that will add some new features, including a new Start Screen.

This presents a bit of an issue for Nokia, which launched its flagship Lumia 900 phone just two months ago in the US but now won't be able to get the Windows Phone 8 upgrade when it is released later this fall.

In a chat on The Verge, Nokia rep Kevin Shields tries to give their side on the Windows Phone 8 upgrade issue, saying that Nokia's efforts to support the Lumia phone line up are " ... more than enough. I think that ultimately your typical customer probably isn't all that aware of this upgrade thing." When asked if people should still buy a Lumia 900, Shields naturally says, "I feel really good about recommending the product."

To be fair, Nokia also has plans to release a number of new and updated Windows Phone 7 apps exclusively for Lumia products in the near future that will add a number of features to those devices. It remains to be seen if these app updates, plus the Windows Phone 7.8 upgrade, will be enough to keep people interested in buying the Lumia devices going forward until the company launches its first Windows Phone 8 products.

Source: The Verge

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That's not fair I thought when I bought the Lumia 800 that it was going to be upgraded to WP8 and now they say "NO". Well they better watch out in two years time when my telstra contract runs out. I was originally looking at the "Titan" from HTC. Nokia was the first windows phone on the Aussie market so I took it.

digitheatre said,
fragmentation?

fragmentation is multiple OS versions that are spread all over the place but continue to live on. wp7 is being terminated. it is more like upgrade or die.

Typycal MS s.h.i.t.
Several months ago, when it was the rumour that WP7 phones will not be upgradable to WP8 anyone was laughing and said of course it wasn't going to be true.
But now, really, I'm laughing my a$$ off at those MS fanboys, they deserve it. Me personally, I'll never buy their phones.

Mortis said,
Typycal MS s.h.i.t.
Several months ago, when it was the rumour that WP7 phones will not be upgradable to WP8 anyone was laughing and said of course it wasn't going to be true.
But now, really, I'm laughing my a$$ off at those MS fanboys, they deserve it. Me personally, I'll never buy their phones.

you android/apple crapboys must really loved getting ****ed in the ass with apple and google cause you never complain about how ****ty their os's actually are, are you ****ing robots or your brains are just numb from being smacked as a kid to many times

korupt_one said,

you android/apple crapboys must really loved getting ****ed in the ass with apple and google cause you never complain about how ****ty their os's actually are, are you ****ing robots or your brains are just numb from being smacked as a kid to many times


Of course, only WP is a good OS, the rest are all POS, right?
At least, those "crappy" phones using these OS-es are upgradable, unlike some other phones that use a shiny new "better" OS that came from Redmond.

Nokia can actually do quite a lot with 7.5 or the later 7.8, they can release updates to it if they feel it is needed by the phone, it will be a firmware update, so who really knows how more updates 7.5 could get, it could be one or it could be many. Android users look at htc x which has just been released, most tech sites are now saying that phone is pretty much obsolete now the Samsung s3 is nearly here. Sure it runs the most recent OS but the hardware is obsolete. and android crapboys should be the last ones complaining about how updates get put out. How many android phones released in the last 2 years have actually received an update, how many android handsets released a year ago have been given updates, the most recent handsets which is like 4 months in google terms are getting the ics update now which will probably make the phones that were made 2 months ago slower and buggier than they were before. and oh 4.1 jellybean is being released next week, I wonder how many handsets released in the last 4 months will receive that update. Andoid crapboys should make there own whinner forum somewhere.

Says the company rep whose company is really struggling to make thing move for itself. I am a Lumia 800 owner and couldn't be more happy with it but to say they are doing more than enough is a stretch...

Exactly -- my L900 is just a tad bit faster than my HD7. Upgraded so I'd have a chance at the new OS. When the L900 was launched 2 months ago, no one from Nokia or Microsoft spoke up clarifying the device would not get WP8. Only a carefully worded statement 'WP7/7.5 apps would be compatible with WP8 hardware'. Never thought they'd throw their preferred partner, Nokia, and all their new patrons under the bus... i actually felt sorry for the nokia guy during the presentation yesterday... must of felt like a real ******. "You guys get a shiny new start screen". Why did Nokia stock fall today by 4.8% and MS by 2.6%? Investors see what a bad deal this turned out to be for Nokia. I was betting on Nokia pulling through but after Monday's diss on the tablet front and yesterday's slap on the Lumia front... Firing 10,000 employees last week wasn't a solution, just another sign. Nokia's eulogy isn't far behind. Nice going Microsoft.

So all this talk about, "WP devices don't need dual cores or better GPU's etc..."....Bet ya wish your shiny new Lumia's had modern hardware now eh?

Sonne said,
So all this talk about, "WP devices don't need dual cores or better GPU's etc..."....Bet ya wish your shiny new Lumia's had modern hardware now eh?

Not really, my lumia is just as fast and fluid as any dual core phone, even with my "non-modern" hardware.

Sonne said,
So all this talk about, "WP devices don't need dual cores or better GPU's etc..."....Bet ya wish your shiny new Lumia's had modern hardware now eh?

So true. Elop was saying multicore was redundant only a month or two ago, and now we have WP8 coming with dual and possibly quadcore. He looks like a right plonker.

Sonne said,
Bet ya wish your shiny new Lumia's had modern hardware now eh?

Did you really conclude that just because it supports dual core now?

What a debacle. WP is bombing and Nokia is losing tons of money on it. They should be doing everything possible to attract people to the platform. All this is going to do is make WP sales even worse, as people that were looking at getting one will just wait for the WP8 devices now, or even just go with something else altogether.

I do understand situation that Nokia is in, however they chose one of the worst ad campaign for the Lumia 900 about are you using a beta test phone, it's too soon.

Not saying the Lumia 900 is a bad phone either (prefer my galaxy nexus for different reasons)

I do agree, Nokia does more than enough. The Lumia phones are exceptionally well supported with updates and exclusive software.

Microsoft took a very delicate decision that was probably necessary to push the platform to new heights.

People can defend the update as much as they like, saying that the 7.8 update is pretty much akin to an apple update, the older phones never get all the features. This is ridiculous though. We are presented with the fact that a 2 month old phone will not get the update. People bought into Microsoft's philosophy that dual core was unneeded on a smart phone, and look now how they have turned on the consumer. I would be extremely annoyed if i had bought a top of the range windows phone and was being left behind.

Tk1917 said,
I would be extremely annoyed if i had bought a top of the range windows phone and was being left behind.

This happens all of the time. Buy a new LED TV and the next model come out. Burn. Buy a new laptop and the new model comes out. Burn. Buy a new DSLR camera, HD camera, phone, car, "insert your product here". Burn

It sucks but it happens. Plenty of people buy into technology everyday and shortly after the new device comes out. Do you think Apple stops selling the current iPhone or iPad a year before they release the next model so that their customers do not get upset? Ok, so maybe their current model has been out for a while before the next one comes out. But it happens.

I think the only way to never get burned is to always buy the previous generation or older and you will not get upset. You have an old product and you are happy with it.

Tk1917 said,
People can defend the update as much as they like, saying that the 7.8 update is pretty much akin to an apple update, the older phones never get all the features. This is ridiculous though. We are presented with the fact that a 2 month old phone will not get the update. People bought into Microsoft's philosophy that dual core was unneeded on a smart phone, and look now how they have turned on the consumer. I would be extremely annoyed if i had bought a top of the range windows phone and was being left behind.

I don't think it is a CPU issue. I would rather bet on a GPU one.

TheCyberKnight said,
Also, what about the original iPad being left in the cold with iOS6 when the iPhone 3GS is supported?

The original iPad started on iOS 3 and was supported by iOS 4 as well as iOS 5. That seems pretty reasonable to me.

TheCyberKnight said,
Also, what about the original iPad being left in the cold with iOS6 when the iPhone 3GS is supported?

No company takes similar decisions lightly.

Is the original iPad still sold at Apple stores? I do not think so........... Lumia is.........

"Unless it is due to the way the OS boots or hardware with UEFI."

bingo!

Just like windows 8 requires UEFI hardware to enable secure boot.

I don't see why Win 8 cannot run on the previous devices. Unless it is due to the way the OS boots or hardware with UEFI. Even though you think it's Microsoft and not Nokia allowing the upgrade. Maybe it's Nokia wanting to make new hardware sales. Or maybe it is the phone carriers wanted to sell new devices.

BillyJack said,
I don't see why Win 8 cannot run on the previous devices. Unless it is due to the way the OS boots or hardware with UEFI. Even though you think it's Microsoft and not Nokia allowing the upgrade. Maybe it's Nokia wanting to make new hardware sales. Or maybe it is the phone carriers wanted to sell new devices.

S4 hardware security.

I disagree. They knew its not up-gradable to new version at first place. so why they fooled customers and made "BETA TEST IS OVER" ad. which is exactly called as false advertisement. I lost my respect to Nokia.

recursive said,

Consumer? yes. Fanboys? no.

This! Everyone's making it seem like a non-issue, if and Google had done something like this with Android it would be slated eternally.

seebaran said,
The rep's wording is kinda insulting to a consumer's intelligence, no?

He's just hoping all of the Lumia buyers are ignorant and have short term memories, that way he can get them to shell out again for a new WP8 device in a few months.

You could view this as a rapid form of planned obsolescence I suppose

thealexweb said,

This! Everyone's making it seem like a non-issue, if and Google had done something like this with Android it would be slated eternally.

Android will be doing this soon too probably, they have pretty much run there course with the os in its current state, it is buggy, it is unstable, it has no optimisation for anything above single core processors, when a real dual core or quad core is released with wp8 in the fall you will see actually how bad your android handsets have been, Microsoft hasn't ****ed anyone over, just a bunch of whiners on certain tech sites who probably don't even use windows phone.

korupt_one said,

Android will be doing this soon too probably, they have pretty much run there course with the os in its current state, it is buggy, it is unstable, it has no optimisation for anything above single core processors, when a real dual core or quad core is released with wp8 in the fall you will see actually how bad your android handsets have been, Microsoft hasn't ****ed anyone over, just a bunch of whiners on certain tech sites who probably don't even use windows phone.

As an owner of two Windows Phones, I'm more excited about the prospects of WP8. This upgrade issue has been good ammunition for all the people who don't want to see Windows Phone succeed.

I was mad as hell when I first heard about the upgrade issue, but Ive settled since. I'm still gutted we wont get some of the new features (mainly VoiP for me as our company uses Lync for our phone system and it would have been a killer app) but I understand that there are real technical limitations in place here.

The new WP8 OS will require EFI and secure boot, will need the chipset to support the windows kernel and some other bits and bobs, from time to time we have a generational jump, everyone does and this is Windows phones 1st.

From now on though, things look a lot more solid - using the shared core 'should' mean less of a generational shift in the future.

duddit2 said,
I was mad as hell when I first heard about the upgrade issue, but Ive settled since. I'm still gutted we wont get some of the new features (mainly VoiP for me as our company uses Lync for our phone system and it would have been a killer app) but I understand that there are real technical limitations in place here.

The new WP8 OS will require EFI and secure boot, will need the chipset to support the windows kernel and some other bits and bobs, from time to time we have a generational jump, everyone does and this is Windows phones 1st.

From now on though, things look a lot more solid - using the shared core 'should' mean less of a generational shift in the future.

we dont know about voip, there are no technical reasons for not including it, because its been done on worse hardware before.

duddit2 said,
from time to time we have a generational jump, everyone does and this is Windows phones 1st.

This is the first big update for Windows Phone and Microsoft is already throwing their existing customers under the bus in a way reminiscent of Windows Mobile. I guess anyone who bought a WP7 device really was a beta tester after all.

duddit2 said,

From now on though, things look a lot more solid - using the shared core 'should' mean less of a generational shift in the future.

And we have who's word on that? Oh yes, the same Microsoft who just ****ed over their current customers. Way to go instilling confidence in future purchases.

simplezz said,
This is the first big update for Windows Phone and Microsoft is already throwing their existing customers under the bus in a way reminiscent of Windows Mobile. I guess anyone who bought a WP7 device really was a beta tester after all.

Well 7.5 was also a pretty big update as far as phone updates go, but keep in mind that WP8 is the foundation for many years to come. WP7 was a stopgap OS.. you can argue that maybe it wasn't a great strategy but I'd say it gave MS a lot of time to really get the Metro UI right and get an ecosystem started. I really don't see Microsoft going away from NT based operating systems any time soon, so I'd feel really comfortable with the support life of their phones going forward.

Oh, and the whole beta tester thing was a silly marketing idea.

Dot Matrix said,
"I feel really good about recommending the product."

Sure, I'll give you $0.50 for it.

That's 50 cents more than I paid for mine.

Enron said,

That's 50 cents more than I paid for mine.

You would have to pay ME to use a WP7 device and even then I would decline

Enron said,

That's 50 cents more than I paid for mine.

So you don't pay a monthly contract fee to your carrier then? You must work for Microsoft then...

simplezz said,

So you don't pay a monthly contract fee to your carrier then? You must work for Microsoft then...

I pay the same to the carrier whether I buy the phone outright or buy it subsidized. That's AT&T for you.

That's up for debate. What I wanna know is, if both Microsoft and Nokia KNEW at that point, that WP8 was going to require new hardware, and if so, why did they release the Lumia knowing damn well they were tossing customers under the bus? "Hey, thanks for the money, here's your brick!"

I feel bad for Lumia owners. 3 months after they bought their device, Microsoft declares it a brick. "I feel really good about recommending the product." my ass. I can tell you right now, I can't recommend my friends a WP7 device at all.

Edited by Dot Matrix, Jun 21 2012, 8:51pm :

Dot Matrix said,
That's up for debate. What I wanna know is, if both Microsoft and Nokia KNEW at that point, that WP8 was going to require new hardware, and if so, why did they release the Lumia knowing damn well they were tossing customers under the bus? "Hey, thanks for the money, here's your brick!"

I feel bad for Lumia owners. 3 months after they bought their device, Microsoft declares it a brick. "I feel really good about recommending the product." my ass. I can tell you right now, I can't recommend my friends a WP7 device at all.

It's impossible to have the latest of everything nowadays. Technology is advancing so fast that the moment you make a purchase your device is already irrelevant. If you keep waiting to have the latest of everything, you'll be stuck waiting forever. What do you expect Nokia to do?

Windows Phone 7.8 is coming with some of the new features that Windows Phone 8 will have...the Lumia is not a brick. They're doing the same thing that Apple does with iOS. Older iDevices are capable of running the latest software, but some features are not available. The Windows Phone team is actually being more honest and not fully calling "8".

Dot Matrix said,
I feel bad for Lumia owners. 3 months after they bought their device, Microsoft declares it a brick. "I feel really good about recommending the product." my ass. I can tell you right now, I can't recommend my friends a WP7 device at all.

Own two Lumias between myself and the wife, and don't regret buying it for a moment, and not exactly a brick as it's still getting an update. What do you expect them to do, have you send your phone in so they can add the new hardware? Got a couple Androids I can add to the brick pile myself. Next year I know I'll be buying a couple WP8 devices. Those two old Androids will still never be updated. I don't regret buying them either. At the time, they were great. Now they're antiquated crap. Stuff is pretty much obsolete as soon as you walk out the door, has been like that since forever. Buy it for what it does now, not what it may or may not do in the arbitrary future.

Daniel Tablas said,

It's impossible to have the latest of everything nowadays. Technology is advancing so fast that the moment you make a purchase your device is already irrelevant. If you keep waiting to have the latest of everything, you'll be stuck waiting forever. What do you expect Nokia to do?

Windows Phone 7.8 is coming with some of the new features that Windows Phone 8 will have...the Lumia is not a brick. They're doing the same thing that Apple does with iOS. Older iDevices are capable of running the latest software, but some features are not available. The Windows Phone team is actually being more honest and not fully calling "8".

the new start screen and background voip...if they cant deliver those two, then i'm out, and moving to android (maybe ill flash android on my lumia?).

Daniel Tablas said,
They're doing the same thing that Apple does with iOS.

Your comparison with Apple is lacking in one huge area: Third-party software support. Even though some new iOS features aren't included all third-party apps designed for the latest version will run just fine. The same can't be said of the situation Microsoft is creating: Windows Phone 7.8 won't run Windows Phone 8 apps.

I say again: Huge, huge difference.

Dot Matrix said,
That's up for debate. What I wanna know is, if both Microsoft and Nokia KNEW at that point, that WP8 was going to require new hardware, and if so, why did they release the Lumia knowing damn well they were tossing customers under the bus? "Hey, thanks for the money, here's your brick!"

I feel bad for Lumia owners. 3 months after they bought their device, Microsoft declares it a brick. "I feel really good about recommending the product." my ass. I can tell you right now, I can't recommend my friends a WP7 device at all.

Don't be ridiculous. All your talk of buses and bricks makes you sound silly.

Nokia will continue to release exclusive apps for their phones and the phone will receive an update to a newer version of WP shortly. That's more than most Android users ever get and more than Apple offers its customers.

.Neo said,

Your comparison with Apple is lacking in one huge area: Third-party software support. Even though some new iOS features aren't included all third-party apps designed for the latest version will run just fine. The same can't be said of the situation Microsoft is creating: Windows Phone 7.8 won't run Windows Phone 8 apps.

I say again: Huge, huge difference.


AFAIK if iOS app is designed for iOS 6 and marked as such, it won't run on iOS 5. This is no different than what's happening with 7.8 and 8.

Dot Matrix said,
That's up for debate. What I wanna know is, if both Microsoft and Nokia KNEW at that point, that WP8 was going to require new hardware, and if so, why did they release the Lumia knowing damn well they were tossing customers under the bus? "Hey, thanks for the money, here's your brick!"

I feel bad for Lumia owners. 3 months after they bought their device, Microsoft declares it a brick. "I feel really good about recommending the product." my ass. I can tell you right now, I can't recommend my friends a WP7 device at all.

Damn! my phone won't be update it, now it's useless! my life it's over.../s

7.5 is a great OS and with 7.8 will make it even more, the phone still works..

BajiRav said,

AFAIK if iOS app is designed for iOS 6 and marked as such, it won't run on iOS 5. This is no different than what's happening with 7.8 and 8.

Yeah except all hardware currently being sold will in fact run iOS 6. Big difference right there.

.Neo said,

Yeah except all hardware currently being sold will in fact run iOS 6. Big difference right there.

And support for newer releases has generally been pretty good in the past. The original iPhone started on iOS 1 and supported iOS 2 as well as iOS 3. The iPhone 3G started on iOS 2, and supported iOS 3 as well as 4 (even though iOS 4 is a disaster on it, performance-wise). And iPhones 3GS, 4 and 4s all support the latest release of iOS as well as the upcoming iOS 6.

jorel009 said,

the new start screen and background voip...if they cant deliver those two, then i'm out, and moving to android (maybe ill flash android on my lumia?).

We're definitely getting the new start screen. I have a feeling that we're getting the background VoIP, but they haven't confirmed yet. That's certainly not connected to hardware.

When is the next Windows Phone dev conference? We need the 7.8 + 8 SDK!

.Neo said,

Yeah except all hardware currently being sold will in fact run iOS 6. Big difference right there.

They get "iOS 6" not iOS 6. Apple shoots out updates for older devices with subset of the features, just like what is happening here except Microsoft is being up front with you that you're getting a subset of the update and not claiming that the older phones get the new update when they are not.

pack34 said,

They get "iOS 6" not iOS 6. Apple shoots out updates for older devices with subset of the features, just like what is happening here except Microsoft is being up front with you that you're getting a subset of the update and not claiming that the older phones get the new update when they are not.


All currently sold iOS devices will be updated to iOS 6. They will run all future third-party apps designed for iOS 6 as well. Whether or not some new iOS 6 features are excluded from the oldest devices is irrelevant when it comes to third-party app support. Current-gen Windows Phones upgraded to 7.8 won't run Windows Phone 8 apps at all. That's the huge difference between Apple and Microsoft I've been pointing out. What are you people finding so hard to understand here?

Also, there's a complete list available which devices will get what iOS 6 features. Apple hasn't made a secret of that, so what the hell are you talking about?

Edited by .Neo, Jun 21 2012, 9:55pm :

.Neo said,

All currently sold iOS devices will be updated to iOS 6. They will run all future third-party apps designed for iOS 6 as well. Whether or not some new iOS 6 features are excluded from the oldest devices is irrelevant when it comes to third-party app support. Current-gen Windows Phones upgraded to 7.8 won't run Windows Phone 8 apps at all. That's the huge difference between Apple and Microsoft I've been pointing out. What are you people finding so hard to understand here?

Also, there's a complete list available which devices will get what iOS 6 features. Apple hasn't made a secret of that, so what the hell are you talking about?

So if you're getting an OS update in version number only, with half the features missing, how is that so different from if MS just called 7.8 "8.0" and rolled it out to all current devices. Can't run native 8.0 apps? Well my iPhone couldn't even start half of the newer apps because it crashed all the time. Besides, developers can still support 7.x devices. The true 8.x apps will most likely require hardware capabilities not present in the 7.x phones. No developer would intentionally exclude 7.x users if they can avoid it.

Shikaka said,
Pack34 needs to brush up on the ol trolling skills tbh

Windows Phone 7.8 is a subset of windows phone 8. "iOS 6" for the 4 is a subset of iOS 6 for the 4S.

Are you able to use apps that rely on hardware or software features unique to the 4S on the 4 or 3Gs? I bet they have to code them to take this into account. It's no different here. Plus porting between 7.8 and 8 is trivial.

jakem1 said,

That's more than most Android users ever get and more than Apple offers its customers.

The vast majority of current generation Android devices are getting/have received the ICS update, not some watered down half-assed inferior version. "More then most Android users ever get" I don't think so. You're just talking BS now to defect the very real middle finger Microsoft has just given to all current gen WP7 users.

At least with Android, the few devices which won't get an ICS upgrade can use roms like Cynogenmod. What option do WP7 users have? Absolutely none. If Microsoft had any respect for their customers, they would at the very least offer a free or heavily discounted WP7 -> WP8 exchange.

jakem1 said,

Don't be ridiculous. All your talk of buses and bricks makes you sound silly.

Your blind devotion to Microsoft makes you sound silly too. I bet you don't even own a WP7 device. If you did, I'm sure you'd be annoyed as well.

Edited by simplezz, Jun 21 2012, 10:31pm :

Enron said,
Can't run native 8.0 apps? Well my iPhone couldn't even start half of the newer apps because it crashed all the time. Besides, developers can still support 7.x devices. The true 8.x apps will most likely require hardware capabilities not present in the 7.x phones. No developer would intentionally exclude 7.x users if they can avoid it.

Your iPhone crashing could have had numerous reasons. Do you have proof it was directly related to your hardware being too old? You think that developers won't exclude Windows Phone 7 users is extremely optimistic.

pack34 said,
Windows Phone 7.8 is a subset of windows phone 8.

It's not. They're completely different.

simplezz said,

The vast majority of current generation Android devices are getting/have received the ICS update, not some watered down half-assed inferior version. "More then most Android users ever get" I don't think so. You're just talking BS now to defect the very real middle finger Microsoft has just given to all current gen WP7 users.

At least with Android, the few devices which won't get an ICS upgrade can use roms like Cynogenmod. What option do WP7 users have? Absolutely none. If Microsoft had any respect for their customers, they would at the very least offer a free or heavily discounted WP7 -> WP8 exchange.

Your blind devotion to Microsoft makes you sound silly too.

Yep you can force ICS on any android device, but it will run like crap!, WP7 will be getting only 7.8 but it will run as great as it always does..

.Neo said,

I bet you don't even own a WP7 device. If you did, I'm sure you'd be annoyed off as well..

I own a Samsung Focus and I'm not annoyed or mad, just a little bit disappointed but I'll be fine with 7.8 till I get a WP8 device

oliver182 said,

I own a Samsung Focus and I'm not annoyed or mad, just a little bit disappointed but I'll be fine with 7.8 till I get a WP8 device


I'm not the one who said that. Please quote using the correct name.

oliver182 said,

I own a Samsung Focus and I'm not annoyed or mad, just a little bit disappointed but I'll be fine with 7.8 till I get a WP8 device

.Neo didn't write that. I did, and It was directed at jakem1 not you.

simplezz said,

The vast majority of current generation Android devices are getting/have received the ICS update, not some watered down half-assed inferior version. "More then most Android users ever get" I don't think so. You're just talking BS now to defect the very real middle finger Microsoft has just given to all current gen WP7 users.

At least with Android, the few devices which won't get an ICS upgrade can use roms like Cynogenmod. What option do WP7 users have? Absolutely none. If Microsoft had any respect for their customers, they would at the very least offer a free or heavily discounted WP7 -> WP8 exchange.

Your blind devotion to Microsoft makes you sound silly too. I bet you don't even own a WP7 device. If you did, I'm sure you'd be annoyed as well.

Microsoft hasn't given anyone the finger, they are rolling out an update for wp7.5 and nokia will continue supplying news apps and updates for current gen windows phones and absolutely nobody has said that there wont be any updates after 7.8, you apple and android crapboys should just stay and talk about your own amazing os's somewhere else. Just wait a little while apple boys, you will find ios will be going this way very soon and android doesn't really have anywhere to go, cause each release is based on the same crappy code that wasn't even developed for a mobile platform.

rfirth said,
I have a feeling that we're getting the background VoIP, but they haven't confirmed yet. That's certainly not connected to hardware.

No, We're not getting background voip. The multitasking in 8 is based on NT. CE can't and will never be able to multitask efficiently in that manner.

This is the crux of the matter. 1st Gen snapdragon would run the NT kernel poorly, hence no update. Even if the Lumia900 can run NT just fine, it would certainly confuse the market if 'some phones' got the update while the majority did not.

.Neo said,

Your iPhone crashing could have had numerous reasons. Do you have proof it was directly related to your hardware being too old? You think that developers won't exclude Windows Phone 7 users is extremely optimistic.

Well I'd be lying if I could say I could prove it. I don't have a testing lab or anything, but I did do everything I could to fix the problem. Basic apps worked, but anything that seemed to push the hardware even a little would crash.

As for developing for 7.x and 8.x, at least initially, as a developer I wouldn't want to exclude the majority of WP owners (potential revenue). If 8.x explodes in popularity then yeah I could see them dropping the old hardware, but then this whole issue becomes smaller if you've got maybe two times as many 8.x devices out there than 7.x ones.

Nick Sheldon said,
Nokia Drive is amazing app. Better than any gps I have ever owned or used before.

Its very simple and will do the job for you, but personally, I prefer iGO.

There is something to say about all the free bonus stuff you do get with a Lumia compared to one of the other WP7.x devices out there. They really have put a lot into exclusive nokia and 3rd party apps that owners get for free. I think that's as much an added value to the device as would be getting another update 6 months from now etc.

Nick Sheldon said,
I can't fault Nokia with their input into Windows Phone.

Great design, great apps, superb marketing.

Looking forward to 7.8

exactly, people seem to forget that 7.8 is coming. Yes, it isn't wp8, but like apple, the new generation supports things that the older cannot. At least Microsoft will be truthful to say that it isn't wp8, but 7.8

auziez said,

exactly, people seem to forget that 7.8 is coming. Yes, it isn't wp8, but like apple, the new generation supports things that the older cannot. At least Microsoft will be truthful to say that it isn't wp8, but 7.8

That's not the whole story though is it? The 3GS is getting iOS6 minus some features but the major difference is an app designed for Apple's modern devices will work on the older devices, with windows phone it won't work if they code in the new runtime, so the supply of new apps for windows phone 7.8 will dry up before long.

thealexweb said,

That's not the whole story though is it? The 3GS is getting iOS6 minus some features but the major difference is an app designed for Apple's modern devices will work on the older devices, with windows phone it won't work if they code in the new runtime, so the supply of new apps for windows phone 7.8 will dry up before long.

Developers don't have to use WP8 code if their product doesn't require it.
It'd be silly to build a game for WP8 if it used none of the features in it. Even then, some of the features of WP8 devices are things like multicore cpus, and while it might make games run smoother, they are not a feature that is added on a whim so it'd still be easier for WP7.8 code for the most part.

Remember wp8 can run wp7.5/8 apps just fine.

thealexweb said,

That's not the whole story though is it? The 3GS is getting iOS6 minus some features but the major difference is an app designed for Apple's modern devices will work on the older devices, with windows phone it won't work if they code in the new runtime, so the supply of new apps for windows phone 7.8 will dry up before long.

Nah, we'll be at least at 150,000 apps before WP8 is released and it might peter out at 200,000, but that's more than plenty.

While I think they can/should do more, I also have to remind myself that Nokia only has so much control over WP8 and thus there isn't much they can do besides make more exclusive apps for both 7.8 and 8.

Figure 8 Dash said,
While I think they can/should do more, I also have to remind myself that Nokia only has so much control over WP8 and thus there isn't much they can do besides make more exclusive apps for both 7.8 and 8.

Nokia was the first mobile manufacturer do customer firmware updates. The nokia 6680 was one of the first devices to get updates.

Regarding updates. My N8 and e7 have had.

Two minor updates to symbian^3
Symbian Anna
Symbian Belle..

That is the difference old nokia did compared to being an oem.

Kevin Shields, its bad deal and very very poor deal for those who brought devices from you under the lumia brand in the last 3 months.