Orange VP: Windows Phone future is up to Nokia

Next week, Nokia will officially show off its first smartphones that will use Microsoft's Windows Phone 7 operating system. It's a big risk for both companies. Today a vice president for the wireless carrier Orange (based in the Middle East, Europe and Africa) believes that the response to Nokia's WP7 devices will be important for Microsoft's future in this business.

News.com reports that Yves Maitre, the senior vice president of devices and mobile multimedia at Orange, confirms that smartphones that run Windows Phone 7 are the lowest selling for the carrier at the moment, behind Android, iOS and Blackberry-based phones. He said, "Honestly, it hasn't been as successful as we expected." Nokia is expected to launch the first Windows Phone 7 devices in unnamed select markets before the end of 2011. Maitre says, "If Nokia/Microsoft is not successful in Europe, then it will be tough in other countries."

Orange will also have to decide whether or not to keep selling Windows Phone 7-based phones at some point. Maitre says, "By Barcelona [the site of February's Mobile World Congress conference], we'll know for sure if Microsoft is in the game or not." However he adds that he is optimistic that Nokia and Microsoft can come up with smartphones that consumers will like, saying, "When you have a Nokia phone. it's like you're driving a Mercedes Benz." Time will tell if people will think the Nokia WP7-based devices are like driving a Benz or a Ford Pinto.

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Orange Battery said,
I hope Nokia don't stick to Windows Phone exclusively. They are one of the best phone manufactures and shouldn't be held back by one OS.

To date their own OS is what's held them back, that being Symbian. Why is it ok for other OEMs to mostly go with one OS by in Nokias case it'd be held back exactly?

GP007 said,

To date their own OS is what's held them back, that being Symbian. Why is it ok for other OEMs to mostly go with one OS by in Nokias case it'd be held back exactly?

When you have two OSes like Samsung, HTC etc. have you have the ability to shift the emphasis from one OS to the other. Nokia does not and this increase the risk.
Putting all your eggs in one, single basket is never a good idea......
Said that I am waiting to see what Nokia will announce: if they will offer a 4.3" , SIM free, device I could reconsider my decision to buy a Samsung Focus S.

Fritzly said,

When you have two OSes like Samsung, HTC etc. have you have the ability to shift the emphasis from one OS to the other. Nokia does not and this increase the risk.
Putting all your eggs in one, single basket is never a good idea......
Said that I am waiting to see what Nokia will announce: if they will offer a 4.3" , SIM free, device I could reconsider my decision to buy a Samsung Focus S.

Nokia has always had one OS though, Meego came and went and was only used on the N9. Nokia always used Symbian on it's phones and never had a 2nd OS. RIM also has one OS. HTC just makes hardware so they can do 2 OS's but before Android HTC only made Windows Mobile phones, again, one OS.

Trying to support more OS's just adds costs.

GP007 said,

Nokia has always had one OS though, Meego came and went and was only used on the N9. Nokia always used Symbian on it's phones and never had a 2nd OS. RIM also has one OS. HTC just makes hardware so they can do 2 OS's but before Android HTC only made Windows Mobile phones, again, one OS.

Trying to support more OS's just adds costs.

True, before Android HTC had no options but use MS OS, now that they have the option they use two OSes.

Yes Nokia had Symbian and did good with it; simply put Symbiam was developed before the smartphones era and is not a choice anymore. My point is that going solely with an OS like WP7 is a big gamble considering the actual penetration of the OS. Of course any of us know exactly all the details of the agreement between MS and Nokia but as it looks right now it is a big, risky bet.
It could turn in a great success or big flop for Nokia, nobody can know for sure. Personally I hope the former, I had Nokia devices many years ago and they were excellent. In fact I am waiting to see what Nokia will announce to decide if my next phone will be a WP7 Nokia or the Samsung Focus S

What is holding back current sales of WP7? Ask yourself what makes it better than the others.

Who has the best hardware? Apple or Android. The WP7 hardware is basically leftover parts from older phones. The screens on WP7 phones are at least a generation back (480x800 falls between the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4). The Processors are single core. The memory is about equal to the low end android phones. Storage memory? again, about even with low end Android phones, and no memory expansion slot for the most part either.

What can the WP7 phone do that the others can't? MS office. That's it.
Does the interface do anything amazing? Short of run smoothly, it has just squares of color for the most part. Some tiles are nice and show pictures like "People" and "The weather channel". I like the tiles, but think the plain colors should be able to be changed. I can see designer patterns being popular if only they would allow it. (Thinking about my wife's handbag designers, she would love seeing that stuff.)
So why buy WP7 over the others? No reason yet. I wish they would make high end phone similar in specs to iPhone 4s and the latest Android phones like the SGS2. As of now, hardware is probably the biggest limiter. If paying the same price, why not get an iPhone or Android phone with better hardware?
By the way, I own and love my LG Quantum, probably the lowest spec WP7 phone released.

Invizibleyez said,
What is holding back current sales of WP7? Ask yourself what makes it better than the others.

Who has the best hardware? Apple or Android. The WP7 hardware is basically leftover parts from older phones. The screens on WP7 phones are at least a generation back (480x800 falls between the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4). The Processors are single core. The memory is about equal to the low end android phones. Storage memory? again, about even with low end Android phones, and no memory expansion slot for the most part either.

What can the WP7 phone do that the others can't? MS office. That's it.
Does the interface do anything amazing? Short of run smoothly, it has just squares of color for the most part. Some tiles are nice and show pictures like "People" and "The weather channel". I like the tiles, but think the plain colors should be able to be changed. I can see designer patterns being popular if only they would allow it. (Thinking about my wife's handbag designers, she would love seeing that stuff.)
So why buy WP7 over the others? No reason yet. I wish they would make high end phone similar in specs to iPhone 4s and the latest Android phones like the SGS2. As of now, hardware is probably the biggest limiter. If paying the same price, why not get an iPhone or Android phone with better hardware?
By the way, I own and love my LG Quantum, probably the lowest spec WP7 phone released.

You do know that until the Galaxy Nexus every top end Android smartphone to date has a 480x800 screen res right? It's the defacto for this generation and going higher is something we'll see more and more in 2012 which is when MS will add support for it in WP as well.

People, at least the ones around here seem to take the techie/geek stance and this for some reason and always talk about hardware this hardware that. The vast majority of people who buy phones don't even care what the OS is, as long as it's smooth and does what they want, WP does both and it does it well. Single vs dual core cpu's are a check box in the grand scheme of things, the iPhone just added it now with the 4S yet the older ones sold very well with a single core, did people even bother to check this at all? I doubt it.

Regardless, you're IMO putting too much on what's inside when normal buyers look at external design and how well the software works, the only hardware they much care about is screen size and storage, even with bleeding end CPU/GPU inside you'll still see a 8GB and 16GB option I bet, and for many that's more than enough for their phone.

GP007 said,

You do know that until the Galaxy Nexus every top end Android smartphone to date has a 480x800 screen res right? Its the defacto for this generation and going higher is something we'll see more and more in 2012 which is when MS will add support for it in WP as well.

Motorola Droid X2 - 540x960
Motorola Atrix - 540x960
Motorola DROID Bionic - 540x960
HTC Sensation - 540x960
HTC EVO 3D - 540x960
iPhone 4 - 640x960
iPhone 4s - 640x960

Thats just a few phones with higher than 480x800 and some of them are from LAST YEAR

So much Windows Phone trolling in these comments, if you don't like Windows Phone then don't ****ing comment!!!

neo158 said,
So much Windows Phone trolling in these comments, if you don't like Windows Phone then don't ****ing comment!!!

but it's ok for you guys to bash android?

neo158 said,
So much Windows Phone trolling in these comments, if you don't like Windows Phone then don't ****ing comment!!!

Cleverest post of the day...........

dotf said,

Yes. because FOSS is worth bashing.

Why do you dislike them so much? They stand for good things. Such as:
They believe that software should be free, and ugly as hell. And also, that Windows shouldn't exist, and Steve Jobs should have been gone a long time ago. Platforms should be open and insecure, like Android.

smooth3006 said,

but it's ok for you guys to bash android?

I haven't seen anyone directly bash or bring up android in a negative way in any of the posts here so far. Maybe you need to stop being so defensive?

Microsoft need to turn the advertising and presence up a notch. It doesn't help when WP7 on carriers is next to nothing at the moment. Customers probably don't even know it exists. All they see is iPhone and Android.

I looked on a few carrier websites to see if any new phones were up and you would be hard pressed to actually find Windows Phones on the website. They are either no longer selling them or stuck in some hard to find corner that nobody will ever find.

Hopefully they are just waiting for Mango because they are getting nowhere. More phones and bigger presence so it has a chance to compete because it actually deserves it.

oceanmotion said,
Microsoft need to turn the advertising and presence up a notch. It doesn't help when WP7 on carriers is next to nothing at the moment. Customers probably don't even know it exists. All they see is iPhone and Android.

I looked on a few carrier websites to see if any new phones were up and you would be hard pressed to actually find Windows Phones on the website. They are either no longer selling them or stuck in some hard to find corner that nobody will ever find.

Hopefully they are just waiting for Mango because they are getting nowhere. More phones and bigger presence so it has a chance to compete because it actually deserves it.

Couldn't agree more. It's not a case of whether it's good or not, it's a case of mind share, which WP7 has a very small chunk of. Having being in the market for a WP7 phone at the moment, it's a real eye opener at how bad the presence of Windows Phone is in store.

Orange guys seem to be the only guys who actually seem to know ANYTHING about Windows Phone. All others either have no idea and most of them don't even have any on display. It's crazy. I've never seen any advertising (well, I think maybe bar one TV advert, and I say maybe) either. If Microsoft want Windows Phone to succeed, they need to give Nokia all the help they need, a phone call to the advertising company who does the XBOX commercials (or, the "I'm a PC and Windows 7 was my idea" guys, they were good too) and finally get those sales representatives on the road and show the sales reps in the phones stores just how awesome Windows Phone is, all of the features, advantages, benefits, the works.

It's an incredibly hard mission but if anyone can do it, it's Microsoft.

I think there's two fundamental flaws about WP:

1. Little to no advertising.
People like cool stuff. People like to see other people using cool stuff. People like to be told their stuff is cool. Who wants to buy a new phone if Ashton Kutcher doesn't use it?

2. Windows is everywhere.
People are sick of Windows. They deal with it at work, they deal with it at home. They see it on TV, they see it on Facebook. They hear about it from their friends, they hear about it from their kids, and maybe even their kids' kids. Why would they want more of the same?

2a. They're BORING. The interface is as ugly as the phones themselves. Flat tiles colored like Tetris blocks, huge, childish fonts overlaying black or white canvas backgrounds, and flat, brick-like phones with no shape or contour whatsoever.

bjoswald said,
I think there's two fundamental flaws about WP:

1. Little to no advertising.
People like cool stuff. People like to see other people using cool stuff. People like to be told their stuff is cool. Who wants to buy a new phone if Ashton Kutcher doesn't use it?

2. Windows is everywhere.
People are sick of Windows. They deal with it at work, they deal with it at home. They see it on TV, they see it on Facebook. They hear about it from their friends, they hear about it from their kids, and maybe even their kids' kids. Why would they want more of the same?

2a. They're BORING. The interface is as ugly as the phones themselves. Flat tiles colored like Tetris blocks, huge, childish fonts overlaying black or white canvas backgrounds, and flat, brick-like phones with no shape or contour whatsoever.

agreed!

bjoswald said,
I think there's two fundamental flaws about WP:

2. Windows is everywhere.
People are sick of Windows. They deal with it at work, they deal with it at home. They see it on TV, they see it on Facebook. They hear about it from their friends, they hear about it from their kids, and maybe even their kids' kids. Why would they want more of the same?

Actually, Microsoft has done that, locally also. In Japan, at Toshiba's WP launch, according WPoweruser, one of the biggest Japnese actress, launched the device.

In Australia, they hired Miss Australia and Isiah Mustafa( the old spice guy, youtube hit). In Australia, according to some early reports, WP has made some strong grounds. Isiah took the device with him everywhere and did several interviews to radio and tv regarding device. He did an excellent hands-on review. Did public demos too.
http://wmpoweruser.com/microso...ger-out-handsets-still-mia/


In USA, they paid, Paris Hilton, Rachel Leigh Cook, Daniel Gillies, Musician Brett Anderson and Cindy Crawford, and a few other stars to use Windows Phones.

http://www.wpcentral.com/paris...indows-phones-charity-event

And, I strongly disagree with your third/2a point. May be you should give it a try. Don't judge by looking it's pictures.

bjoswald said,
I think there's two fundamental flaws about WP:

1. Little to no advertising.
People like cool stuff. People like to see other people using cool stuff. People like to be told their stuff is cool. Who wants to buy a new phone if Ashton Kutcher doesn't use it?

2. Windows is everywhere.
People are sick of Windows. They deal with it at work, they deal with it at home. They see it on TV, they see it on Facebook. They hear about it from their friends, they hear about it from their kids, and maybe even their kids' kids. Why would they want more of the same?

2a. They're BORING. The interface is as ugly as the phones themselves. Flat tiles colored like Tetris blocks, huge, childish fonts overlaying black or white canvas backgrounds, and flat, brick-like phones with no shape or contour whatsoever.

1. Who the hell is ashton kutcher?
2. Ofcourse windows is everywhere.
3. You should consider yourself buying a wp7 .. Opinions change.. ^^

smooth3006 said,
so is nokia going to be the future/exclusive maker of wp7?

Doubtful, but the way the relationship with MS is looking, they might end up being the flagship OEM

"When you have a Nokia phone. it's like you're driving a Mercedes Benz."

That might have been the case when it was running Symbian, but now it's running Windows, and if it was like driving a benz, I doubt the sales numbers would be so small.

Joey S said,

That might have been the case when it was running Symbian, but now it's running Windows, and if it was like driving a benz, I doubt the sales numbers would be so small.
The number of Mercdes that sell are also very small, compared to the other cars!

FMH said,
The number of Mercdes that sell are also very small, compared to the other cars!

That's because a Benz is more expensive than most other cars. WP's are on par in terms of price, yet sell in much smaller volumes.

Joey S said,

That's because a Benz is more expensive than most other cars. WP's are on par in terms of price, yet sell in much smaller volumes.
Nope. Windows Phone, is infinitly more expensive than Android. Literally. You do the maths!

The OEMs make a fewer profit on Windows Phone. It's more expensive for them.

FMH said,
....

Neg.
Windows Phones are cheaper. OEMs pay for license rather than the hundreds of staff to customize Android in order to differentiate their devices from the pack.

Add on the Microsoft patent protection fees, and I'm sure the scale tips.

dotf said,

Neg.
Windows Phones are cheaper. OEMs pay for license rather than the hundreds of staff to customize Android in order to differentiate their devices from the pack.

Add on the Microsoft patent protection fees, and I'm sure the scale tips.

Touche. but they are certainly not obliged to do it. They can ship it, as it is.

FMH said,
The number of Mercdes that sell are also very small, compared to the other cars!

True, and Porsche sells even less cars than Mercedes Benz but....... both companies profit margins are higher than Ford for example.

Btw this is the difference between Apple and Android OEM as well.

, "When you have a Nokia phone. it's like you're driving a Mercedes Benz."

That's quite a compliment!

Well Microsoft seems to think these phones will sell based on telepathic communication to potential buyers, and so have decided to avoid advertising it at all costs. Carriers and OEM's are too busy advertising android and the iphone and counting the cash from their huge sales to bother, so Microsoft just has to keep concentrating hard and sending out those brain waves! I'm sure it will work in the end. /s

While I'm sure Nokia could help WP7 I wouldn't exactly say it pivots on their success. I actually favour some of Samsung and HTCs offerings in comparison to what we've currently seen leak from Nokia. Also, maybe it's just me but after years of seeing Nokia dominate the feature phone market I definitely don't associate them with a particularly high level of quality. Sturdy sure, but nothing that makes it any more high class than other manufacturers.

Hollow.Droid said,
While I'm sure Nokia could help WP7 I wouldn't exactly say it pivots on their success. I actually favour some of Samsung and HTCs offerings in comparison to what we've currently seen leak from Nokia. Also, maybe it's just me but after years of seeing Nokia dominate the feature phone market I definitely don't associate them with a particularly high level of quality. Sturdy sure, but nothing that makes it any more high class than other manufacturers.

Same could be said for Microsoft. Seeing them dominate the PDA market with Windows Mobile for so many years simply due to a lack of competitors, I definitely don't associate them with a particularly high level of quality.

Hollow.Droid said,
While I'm sure Nokia could help WP7 I wouldn't exactly say it pivots on their success. I actually favour some of Samsung and HTCs offerings in comparison to what we've currently seen leak from Nokia

Good point. Samsung hardware is popular, so if their phones don't sell well running Windows, it's likely Microsoft's new platform is doomed.

ShadowXhawk said,
Same could be said for Microsoft. Seeing them dominate the PDA market with Windows Mobile for so many years simply due to a lack of competitors, I definitely don't associate them with a particularly high level of quality.

EXACTLY!!!!!

Microsoft are the biggest roadblock to mass adoption of their new platform. The brand is plagued by people's memories of what things used to be like, and what drove them to iOS or Android (also OSX / Linux) in the first place.

Microsoft really need to reinvent their own brand within the consumer electronics space in order to get anyone to take the devices seriously.

I am a Micrososft fan, and I admit the stains on the MS brand are what's really hurting adoption.

ShadowXhawk said,

Same could be said for Microsoft. Seeing them dominate the PDA market with Windows Mobile for so many years simply due to a lack of competitors, I definitely don't associate them with a particularly high level of quality.

Well MS WM dethroned Palm which at the time was the king of PDAs, Smartphones did not exist as we know them now yet. Sadly after becoming the King MS made the same mistakes that doomed Palm: they stopped innovating and then the iPhone arrived.......

Bottom line: MS fought its way to the top; after that they messed up.

Muhammad Farrukh said,
"When you have a Nokia phone. it's like you're driving a Mercedes Benz."
True when in interior of Mercedes Benz you have Mangoes
You mean passengers, who are mangoes?

Muhammad Farrukh said,
"When you have a Nokia phone. it's like you're driving a Mercedes Benz."
True when in interior of Mercedes Benz you have Mangoes

your delusional, i can see why you troll every android thread now. and heres a news flash for you, the US barely has any nokia brand phones.

smooth3006 said,

your delusional, i can see why you troll every android thread now. and heres a news flash for you, the US barely has any nokia brand phones.

I might be wrong here but the world dont just revolve around US.
See? Now who's delusional?

smooth3006 said,

your delusional, i can see why you troll every android thread now. and heres a news flash for you, the US barely has any nokia brand phones.

I might be wrong here but the world dont just revolve around US.
See? Now who's delusional?

smooth3006 said,

your delusional, i can see why you troll every android thread now. and heres a news flash for you, the US barely has any nokia brand phones.


the world is not about US people around the world like nokia

FMH said,
That's a great way to raise post count, Farrukh!


(Mouse mal-functioning?)


When I click 'add comment' one time, nothing happens.
It adds the comments on second click

Edit:
It worked this time:D

smooth3006 said,

your delusional, i can see why you troll every android thread now. and heres a news flash for you, the US barely has any nokia brand phones.

It's been said, Nokia is big outside o fthe US and the US cellphone market is a joke compared to other places, this is just a fact.

Also Orange, ya, they're not a US carrier anyways, so any point you tried to make doesn't apply at all.

your delusional, i can see why you troll every android thread now. and heres a news flash for you, the US barely has any nokia brand phones.

My delusional what?