PC shipments worldwide had the the worst year on record in 2013, going down 10 percent

Lenovo was the biggest worldwide PC maker in 2013, and actually grew its business.

The launch of Windows 8.1 in 2013 did nothing to slow the decline of overall PC shipments worldwide, according to new reports from research firms Gartner and IDC. Today, both firms agreed that PC shipments went down 10 percent in 2013 compared to a year ago, which is the biggest yearly decline on record for the PC industry.

Both the Gartner and IDC reports stated that Lenovo was the single biggest worldwide PC maker in 2013, although HP and Dell continue to ship more units in the U.S. Both firms also agreed that Lenovo was the only PC maker in the top five that actually grew its business in the past year, increasing its shipments by 2.7 percent, according to IDC, or 2.1 percent if you go with Gartner's numbers.

PC shipments have now gone down for seven straight quarters, but there are signs that the industry might be at the bottom, at least in the U.S. Gartner stated:

A variety of new form factors, such as hybrid notebooks, drew holiday shoppers' attention, but the market size was very small at the time. Lowering the price point of thin and light products started encouraging the PC replacement and potentially some PC growth in 2014.

The shipment numbers will likely be a big factor in Microsoft's financial numbers. The company is expected to reveal its fourth quarter 2013 results on January 23rd.

Source: Gartner and IDC | Image via Lenovo

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As the variety of type of devices gets more diverse, the user population is more fragmented on what they think help them to reach their potential

Lets all just forget that the PC market was in decline before Win8 came out, and just use this post as yet another avenune to bash Windows 8.

SharpGreen said,

Opinion != Fact

A little bit of both. One of my brothers is the GM of two Best Buys here in Southern California. He often shares the discussions they have at Corporate. Windows 8 had been a big topic of discussion before it was even released in 2012.

With all the blame being thrown around between Windows 8, tablets and smart phones, people are missing one crucial detail... Joe Public. The Boom in PC sales several years back occurred when the general (IE not techie/enthusiast) public decided to buy computers. For them there is no incentive to upgrade unless a) the PC breaks or b) it can no longer do what they want it to. With most using their PCs to surf the net, write the odd letter/email, and play the old game they are happy to chug along with what they've got. Only us techies/enthusiasts get excited to upgrade all the time, just like with most other forms of technology the general public lag well behind. Just look at TVs. Here in the UK we've only just gone digital, and there are a lot of people who have just bought DigiBoxes for their old CRT based TVs! They aren't even HD. Of those that bought the new flat panel TVs there are many who only have half-HD (720), and 3D has failed to catch on to any degree except with the enthusiasts. Now Joe Public make up the vast majority of consumers, we enthusiasts are just a few percent, so it is clear that sales will slump. There will likely never be a boom in PC sales again unless something truly revolutionary comes along that the Joe Public wants...

The biggest reason is that people are using their desktops and laptops less, add that to the fact that hardware is at a point where its not needed to be upgraded as often. Think about it, the vast majority of people just use a computer for web browsing, video streaming, word docs, facebook etc. Any tablet or desktop/laptop from the past few years can do this. This isn't like the old days where the latest and greatest is needed every year. The biggest problem of all is that manufacuters relied for so many years planned obsolescence.

Worldwide shipments of Desktops and Laptops are down. Correct. However, it is not the worst year ever. Shipments in 2013 were similar to 2008 and greater than every year before 2008. Consumers are buying fewer new PC's. As one of many PC's die they use what still works, since many multiple PC families now get by with smartphones, tablets, and one or two PC's, instead of a PC for each person. The drop in PC sales will likely level off within a few years as people get used to newer form factors, and the rest of their old PC's die and a new one will be needed.

When our customer's come in to discuss replacing an old PC we learn how they use it and offer them what fits, either in a custom built machine or a Lenovo. 90% of our buyers now want Windows 8.1 PC's, since we set it up to boot to the desktop and optimize the Start screen so it's not overwhelming to them, by putting their programs on the left, the Desktop tile on the upper left corner and making less used tiles small. One app that everyone likes is Weather. All other live tiles are turned off. That is what consumers in our area like, and it's Windows 8.1 setup the way they want to use it.

My main workstation was built back when the i7 920 was JUST released (Oct 2008, I think). So it's 5 going on 6 years old.

i7 920
12 GB ram
4 Monitors (30,19,24,24)
4 Hard drives

Still runs great. The only down side if there was any, is that the motherboard doesn't have that many PCI Express 1x ports free. It also doesn't have Sata III or USB 3.

Not news - the core of my own primary desktop dates back to Vista - not 7.
Motherboard - ASUS P5G41M-LX2/GB (That's right - Intel G41 consumer/corporate-stable chipset. Solid as cement, but also just as overclockable as cement - it isn't.)
CPU - Intel Q6600 (Kentsfield - the dual-dual Intel quad-core that AMD made scathing jokes about and Apple rejected for the original Mac Pro; instead, Apple chose the XEON version of the same CPU - the result was the Great Kentsfield Fire Sale.)
RAM - 4 GB DDR2-800 (2x2 GB) - the motherboard's ceiling
GPU - nVidia GTX550Ti - this factory-refurbished GPU was a former review piece that was refurbished by nVidia and sold to MicroCenter for resale; it replaced a VisionTek HD5450 iSilence for price-for-performance reasons.
Audio - Creative SoundBlaster Recon3D Fatality Champion (PCI Express x1) (refurbished) - another former review piece via MIcroCenter; replaced an X-Fi XtremeGamer in PCI - while this is at best a crossgrade, it is also futureproofing due to a known flaw in the card it replaced (address bug at the 4GB I/O point).

Note that none of the hardware is new, and all is plenty usable in even Windows 8.1 today. The only real issues are lack of RAM and lack of Hyper-V support in Windows 8.1 (which a CPU/motherboard swap will fix). Even better, I can swap CPU and motherboard and take everything (except the RAM) with me - and I have 8 GB of DDR3 waiting (which I bought at the depth of the Infamous DDR3 Glut).

Basically a few factors at work here:
1) The software, particularly the OSes, are way better these days at running on old hardware. I had a 7 year old PC that would have struggled with Vista but it could run 7 and 8 with no hassles. This means a lot of people aren't buying a new PC every 3 years but maybe every 5 or more.

2) Tablets are moping up a lot of people who used their PCs for really basic purposes.

No surprise here. The surprise is there is still people on site like Neowin in denial about the computer market partially shifting to tablets and mobile devices.

I love my tower desktop computer. In fact, I'm planning about a serious upgrade in the coming months. I've been using Windows 8/8.1 since the beginning and I love it, btw.

Lot of people love it. But lot of Joe Blow and Janette don't really need it and for their mail/facebook/internet needs a tablet does the job for less money.

Just last fall in was in a store and a woman came in asking the clerk about tablets. The clerk tried very very very hard to sell her a laptop. She went home with a tablet.

SPARTdAN said,
Does this mean PC gaming is dead?

Pretty sure a few months ago the word was that there was like 65 million active steam accounts...and that's just one gaming platform. Add in the other people on Origin and all the others and it's vibrant.

ExplodingKnees said,

Pretty sure a few months ago the word was that there was like 65 million active steam accounts...and that's just one gaming platform. Add in the other people on Origin and all the others and it's vibrant.

Even if you aggregate those figures together, I believe that still comes to <10% of the total PC install base (>1 billion Windows users worldwide alone).

Bad Man Duke said,
Even if you aggregate those figures together, I believe that still comes to <10% of the total PC install base (>1 billion Windows users worldwide alone).

Sure. A lot of PCs are in a business environment so little or no gaming there. But PC gaming is still an enormous industry.

I see no reason to replace my 4yo desktop computer:

Xeon W3520 2.4GHz @ 4.5GHz
12Gb Ram
4 x X25-M 80Go
2 x 1,5Tb WD Caviar
2 x Radeon 6950

Still runs games flawlessly in 1920x1200 / High quality.

Hardware stagnates. People keep their rigs.

Have you used Win8 on a desktop with a touch screen? My boss has an Vaio (19") all in one and it's a very good desktop with touch.

And yet, PC component sales are booming. I wonder why that is?

Something to do with the horrid, crappy pre-built systems on offer?

That's been the case since prior to XP - I remember the complaints about the Dell OptiPlex (the original one - in the hinged white non-tower case - with the Pentium Pro CPU inside) and that was one of the better enterprise desktops out there. What folks that got passed-down OptiPlexes forgot:

1. These were basic workstations - designed largely to run NT, not 9x; throw NT4 or later on them and they would be happy campers. (That Pentium Pro CPU.)
2. The graphics on them was also basic, basic, basic - the typical PCI graphics came from Cirrus Logic or S3. However, even in PCI, you could throw real graphics acceleration from any number of third parties (ATI, Diamond Multimedia, Number Nine, even 3dfx) into these Optiplexes.
3. Because of the CPU, when properly re-outfitted, the better OSes were Windows 2000 or XP; however, these Optiplexes were already long in the tooth - even in refurb form. It wa assumed (wrongly) that they were past their prime (even for home use).

Dot Matrix said,

Were they? No one can seem to agree. Not even on PC sales. http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/20...ose-in-4th-quarter-or-fell/

The only direction Apple can go is up. Worldwide they only have a 7.x marketshare. As more new people who don't own a PC buy one, the Mac may be an option. But you have to consider that the vast majority of Mac sales are to educational facilities and high end professionals, not typical consumers.

Also it is unfair to ever compare Mac sales to PC sales. Mac's are not Windows PC's nor is Apple a Windows OEM. The Mac is simply capable of running Windows. No one buys a Mac to run Windows, businesses surely don't. Many people will install Windows to get the compatibility they need hat OS X doesn't offer.

But comparing an OS that has very low market share to one that has the most doesn't work well. Mostly because the purpose of either is done differently. Like for example, businesses typical don't adopt Windows until after a major update and after t has been tested with apps. ere at our company IE11 breaks all the apps we use.

My next comment is towards desktop OEM PC's since I have no clue about laptops or other form factors.

OEM PC's suck, of course those sales are going down. They are often under powered (for the cash you need to pay) the cases they use are stuffed already so good luck adding anything or replacing something and many more reasons. Most desktop PC's are now built part-by-part a lot of individuals and there's no info about that which I'd actually like to see if those sales also have gone down 10%? I actually think they have since there actually is no need to upgrade so often anymore. Most upgrades are now done by enthusiasts from both sides (AMD/Intel/Nvidia) who want the latest and greatest but that's just a small % of people. Current hardware 5-15% upgrade from the last gen isn't just enough of an excuse anymore to upgrade your parts.

They're powerful enough for what most people want to do, maybe not power users but most people. Maybe some don't want to upgrade because of this. I think what would entice them is a better build quality, not some flimsy twisty clicky creaky plastic case full of seams and joints. Not more powerful hardware, but longer battery life, and less bloatware. If any software changes need to be done then it is customization geared towards ease of use out of the box. Have everything set up and ready to go without tons of popups in your face asking for confirmations and preferences. Just ask the user for sign in information for their favorite accounts and have the rest be automatic and ready to go.

Oh, sorry BTW I just realized you're talking about desktops and not laptops. But most of what I said regarding the software side could still be applied.

Everyone's getting a tablet and finding it adequate for most tasks. New PCs are now for power users and hard core gamers. Old PCs stick around and are useful for stuff the tablet can't do, people don't buy new ones as readily anymore.

It's pretty obvious when you think about it. More and more people are realizing that they do not need the power of a desktop or laptop, and that a tablet can easily manage their basic tasks.

Also, PCs are easily upgradable today and as a result, people don't have to buy a complete new system if the one they're using already just needs a little upgrading. I can't comment on laptops, but I think it's a bit harder to upgrade laptops now, seeing as major OEMs wanna' minimize the thickness, making it harder to swap out parts.

This has almost nothing to do with Windows, be it 8, 7 or god forbid XP.

You can walk into any PC shop and say you don't want any OS on the PC. At least that's the case in the EU.

alwaysonacoffebreak said,
This has almost nothing to do with Windows, be it 8, 7 or god forbid XP.

You can walk into any PC shop and say you don't want any OS on the PC. At least that's the case in the EU.

Far from the case in United States.

Nashy said,
Not sure if dropped because tablets or because Windows 8 sucks.

Tablets, since:
A) Windows 8 doesn't suck. Performance wise it's superior to Windows 7, but most people are like "START SCREEN WAHHHHH" and don't realize this, and
B) Mobile computing is the future, and in many ways, the present. Desktops and laptops are a dying breed IMO.

Kaze23 said
B) Mobile computing is the future, and in many ways, the present. Desktops and laptops are a dying breed IMO.

Desktops aren't dying. I don't know why it's so hard for a lot of geeks to understand something so simple. There are many people who use a computer or laptop for basic tasks that can easily be done on a tablet. More people like that are finding out now, that they could use a tablet instead, and are switching over.

That doesn't mean that the PC industry as a whole is dying, it's just that more people who use their PCs for basic tasks are waking up and getting tablets instead.

There are still plenty of uses for PCs and laptops, it's just that now we're seeing less people using them because they simply don't need that kind of power, when a tablet is more than capable of doing basic tasks such as web browsing, playing games, checking email, etc.

Kaze23 said,

Tablets, since:
A) Windows 8 doesn't suck. Performance wise it's superior to Windows 7, but most people are like "START SCREEN WAHHHHH" and don't realize this, and
B) Mobile computing is the future, and in many ways, the present. Desktops and laptops are a dying breed IMO.

A) I appreciate your opinion. The least you can do is appreciate mine. I'm not the only one, clearly.

B) That maybe so. But it still doesn't answer the question, given you're just giving me your opinion.

Funny how Neowin refuses to give the FULL story; Apple in terms of US sales GREW 25%, and Dell along with Lenovo also grew with their US sales. God forbid Neowin actually giving a full account of what the situation actually is.

To put the record straight: IDC stated sales are down 10%, Gartner 6.9% so, no there is no agreement on the percentage of decline.

Nope.both firms said worldwide PC shipments were down by 10 percent in 2013...Gartner said that shipment were down 6.9 percent in the fourth quarter.

People can TRY to blame Windows 8, and there is one argument where it works.
This: Microsoft releasing the upgrade so cheaply last year, hurt OEM sales.


Now if you step back and look at who sold what, it becomes a bit more interesting and supportive of Windows 8.

A majority of PC Makers/OEMs dropped in 2013 - including Apple, which doesn't sell Windows 8.

One of the few OEMs/PC Makers that 'grew' in 2013 is the one company that adopted the Windows 8 hardware models early on and offered a lot of touch options across their product line, and this was Lenovo.


In summary...
A company that does not sell Windows 8, like Apple, dropped in 2013.

Lenovo, a company that championed Windows 8 hardware changes and adopted touch early on, not only didn't drop with the 'trend', but grew in 2013.

Mobius Enigma said,
People can TRY to blame Windows 8, and there is one argument where it works.
This: Microsoft releasing the upgrade so cheaply last year, hurt OEM sales.


Now if you step back and look at who sold what, it becomes a bit more interesting and supportive of Windows 8.

A majority of PC Makers/OEMs dropped in 2013 - including Apple, which doesn't sell Windows 8.

One of the few OEMs/PC Makers that 'grew' in 2013 is the one company that adopted the Windows 8 hardware models early on and offered a lot of touch options across their product line, and this was Lenovo.


In summary...
A company that does not sell Windows 8, like Apple, dropped in 2013.

Lenovo, a company that championed Windows 8 hardware changes and adopted touch early on, not only didn't drop with the 'trend', but grew in 2013.

Nice try. Google Lenovo and sales and one of the first results shows this:

Active support for Windows 7, sales of Windows-less PCs, and focus on growing Asia market have let Lenovo buck the trend.

But I'll give you credit for a nice try.

stevan said,

Nice try. Google Lenovo and sales and one of the first results shows this:

But I'll give you credit for a nice try.

You are quoting an opinion piece from April 2013, yes nice try indeed.

Another thing to note, is that Windows 8 tablets sales are NOT included in PC Sales numbers. So any non-standard form factor, and products like the Surface Pro that is more powerful than the average laptop is shown to be 'eating' the PC sales market. (Which is not completely accurate, as they are tablets and full PCs.)

Mobius Enigma said,

You are quoting an opinion piece from April 2013, yes nice try indeed.

Another thing to note, is that Windows 8 tablets sales are NOT included in PC Sales numbers. So any non-standard form factor, and products like the Surface Pro that is more powerful than the average laptop is shown to be 'eating' the PC sales market. (Which is not completely accurate, as they are tablets and full PCs.)

Precisely. Another thing to note here is the very first sentence on this article, claiming that the launch of 8.1 did nothing to slow down the decline. First, Windows 8.1 launched half October, which means 9 full months and two weeks have already been passed, furthermore the last quarter (which included sales of Windows 8.1 for the first time, sees a decline of under 6% which is lower than the yearly 10% decline and less than half of the 14% decline reported in the first quartet. This to me indicate that Windows 8.1 at the very least did lower the decline.

Nice point. Which is unfair because here are other company's who are allowed to count tablet sales as PC sales.

But I too would say Windows 8 is part of the problem. We don't need stripped down apps on the desktop. Those apps are perfect for smartphone and tablets. If a person has kids, then the start menu and smaller apps would be OK for AIO type PC's. But forcing the Metro/Modern UI on every computer was a bad move. It should have simply been an option for those who want it.

I don't think Windows users hate Windows 8, its simply not practical. Also Windows 7 is so good, you simply don't need Windows 8. What is happening though is the Windows 8 UI is causing other platforms to change UI features to something similar. This trend will simply push more to adopt Windows 8, because eventually almost everyone will be on the same page.

During 2013, well, both my iMac and PC are quite good and in no need to be replaced. But I did get the new Nexus 7 2013 and a Surface 2....

And seeing how tablets are all the craze right now... PC sale down, Tablet/Phone up....

Although I do think that people not liking the new START screen and Metro having a lot to do with low sales, personally I would think the biggest reason is more and more people especially kids, are doing their internet related stuff on their smartphones these days and relying less on computers for those purposes.
Think about it, before smartphones, what did kids do? They rushed home after school to get on their computers to chat with friends, etc. etc.
Now with smartphones, they are in constant connection with their friends and do everything else on the phones that they used to do on computers. Browse web, play games, etc. etc.
And it doesn't just apply to kids. Even I spend way less time on a computer and more time on my phone.
Just a thought.

I think Windows 8 hurt new PC sales more because it is so easy to install and breathes such new life into old hardware. The only thing I don't like about my old tower now is that it doesn't support HDMI (it's OLD), and it has no touchscreen, but it runs Windows 8.1 like a champ. Most people just don't NEED a new machine.

VeganPowers said,
I think Windows 8 hurt new PC sales more because it is so easy to install and breathes such new life into old hardware. The only thing I don't like about my old tower now is that it doesn't support HDMI (it's OLD), and it has no touchscreen, but it runs Windows 8.1 like a champ. Most people just don't NEED a new machine.

This along with the low cost Microsoft offered Windows 8 at launch did hurt OEM sales.

Now, as the price of Win8.1 is back up to normal, paying $100 for an upgrade or buying a new notebook or tablet for $200-300 is helping to push hardware sales.

(Even the low end Pentium and Atom based devices in this price range are faster than most older computers. The low end Pentium/Celeron based notebooks have fairly fast single thread/core speeds, besting a majority of AMD desktop CPUs.)

I would personally like to see Microsoft offer the Win8.1 at a low price again, but I can understand why it would keep hurting PC makers, and the bigger picture hurting available hardware in the upcoming years for us consumers.

_Alexander said,
I recently looked at the computers that were on sale. Trash. Absolute pathetic trash.

On sale... could you be more specific? On sale for $15?

Enron said,

On sale... could you be more specific? On sale for $15?


Point is; there should not be ANY cheap (and thus crappy) PC.

If people want something cheap, they probably don't do a lot of professional tasks so they can buy a tablet 299-499 range). If they really want a full-fledged PC they should be able to buy a DECENT PC. We're overwhelmed by a boatload of crappy PCs that are taking a turd on the already-bad reputation of Windows.

So anyone who wants a literal "laptop" with a real keyboard as a preference needs to be either a using it as part of their vocation or spending $1000 to do a little light browsing, banking & FB?

You Apple Inc., right?!

And let's look at the specs of the AMD E-series CPU (actually, this is an APU); it fits rather comfortably into the old Sempron/Turion low-end niche in terms of CPU power (except that it supports EPT/SLAT, and therefore, Hyper-V - which Sempron and Turion didn't; in fact, Phenom didn't, either), uses less power than Sempron or Turion, has better onboard graphics (E-3xx has an integrated graphics core from desktop HD6xxx - which means MODERN Catalyst Unified driver support in Windows 7 and later, or Linux, or even SteamOS, if that floats your boat), and costs less than either CeleronG or PentiumG. I'm not that much of a fanboy that I would ignore all that AMD E has to offer - I've seen and test-driven the hardware. Maybe part of the reason there's a hatred of AMD E is because of the list of OEMs that are building hardware based on it (Acer Group, HP, Toshiba, etc.) reads like a Worst of the Worst of PC OEMs?

increase popularity of ipads make the sale of PC go down... people are actively replacing laptops with ipads at least on my work place.. I think ipad is a waste of money

Personally I saw it begin late 2011/early 2012. People who bought ipads and galaxy tabs began spending less time in front of their desktops. I know of people who hadn't touched a pc in weeks because all they need they can do on a tablet/phone from the comfort of a couch or bed. They only touch a desktop pc when they need to do a word document or other work related matter. Banking, bill payments, shopping, all from the phone or tablet. Think of it, a flagship phone of today handles HD video better than a desktop built 10 years ago. Its just the way things are now.

Sadelwo said,
Personally I saw it begin late 2011/early 2012. People who bought ipads and galaxy tabs began spending less time in front of their desktops. I know of people who hadn't touched a pc in weeks because all they need they can do on a tablet/phone from the comfort of a couch or bed. They only touch a desktop pc when they need to do a word document or other work related matter. Banking, bill payments, shopping, all from the phone or tablet. Think of it, a flagship phone of today handles HD video better than a desktop built 10 years ago. Its just the way things are now.

I've tried to get used to a tablet and do often use one for very quick internet surfing or, more normally, watching Netflix. But when it comes to doing anything that involves typing more than a few words I always go for my laptop - tablet keyboards infuriate me to hell and I just can't using something without the tactile feedback that you get from a real keyboard.

Plus as is often the argument (and one I happen to agree with), you can't really do anything really productive on a tablet unless you're talking about something like a Surface Pro with a pen and a keyboard attached.

Sadelwo said,
Personally I saw it begin late 2011/early 2012. People who bought ipads and galaxy tabs began spending less time in front of their desktops. I know of people who hadn't touched a pc in weeks because all they need they can do on a tablet/phone from the comfort of a couch or bed. They only touch a desktop pc when they need to do a word document or other work related matter. Banking, bill payments, shopping, all from the phone or tablet. Think of it, a flagship phone of today handles HD video better than a desktop built 10 years ago. Its just the way things are now.

This exactly! I also know people who rarely touch their laptops anymore because they can do most of their stuff on a tablet or smartphone.

It wasn't too long ago that you HAD to use a computer to access the internet or do any computing task. That's all there was.

Nowadays there are more options. I know plenty of people who use their iPads for almost every internet task... and they only open their laptop for certain things like Quickbooks.

It kinda proves that there are a lot of people who didn't really need a computer at all.... but they bought them by default because that's all there was.

Times have changed!

...right... but this is Neowin, so how does widespread public adaptation of a new format of what is essentially still a Personal Computer, have any baring on Microsoft failing to stem this tide by not-not evolving the Windows UI? Hmmm, hmm?

Self-evident logic is no excuse for a FAIL to raise your flag in the Start Screen v. Start Menu bickerfest!

Chicane-UK said,

Plus as is often the argument (and one I happen to agree with), you can't really do anything really productive on a tablet unless you're talking about something like a Surface Pro with a pen and a keyboard attached.

That's why I said they use the pc for work purposes and everything else on the tablet. Remember we're talking about the regular consumer, not someone working in an IT related field. they sit at a desk infront of a pc all day, when they get home they don't want to sit at a desk again,Productivity is over, its time for fun. They want to kick back and relax. Or on the ride home something to pass time. Computing is no longer limited to a desk or where you can sit in the case of a laptop. And its the combination of those scenarios where the phone/tablet reigns supreme.

Mugwump00 said,
...right... but this is Neowin, so how does widespread public adaptation of a new format of what is essentially still a Personal Computer, have any baring on Microsoft failing to stem this tide by not-not evolving the Windows UI? Hmmm, hmm?

Self-evident logic is no excuse for a FAIL to raise your flag in the Start Screen v. Start Menu bickerfest!

But no-one is bickering about Windows or Microsoft in general in this particular fork of the discussion?! Maybe in the wider thread, yes...

Mugwump00 said,
... I was trying to steer you from the real underlying issues back to the raging irrelevances above! ;-9

Ah - yes - I get it

Increase popularity of Tablets, phablets, cell phones....

Source says devices like tablets are not included in the results.

I suspect we're at a point where what is meant by "a PC" will have to be defined a little more carefully for these statements. Either that, or fold desktop machines and towers into a bigger category. Surface blurs the lines, as do convertible notebooks, as will other devices.

smot said,
I suspect we're at a point where what is meant by "a PC" will have to be defined a little more carefully for these statements. Either that, or fold desktop machines and towers into a bigger category. Surface blurs the lines, as do convertible notebooks, as will other devices.

These reports are even worse than the physical definitions, some are based on channel sales, direct sales, and other variances that have nothing to do with the actual sales or numbers.

For example, ask Neowin where the correction article is for the "Chromebook 20% of Notebook Sales" - most of the other sites have admitted they screwed up because of the narrow definition used, and Chromebook was under 2% of 'notebook' sales.

recursive said,
Care to provide a link? I can't find any that retract their claims.

Virtually every site has an article on this... (Google/Bing are your friends)

Analysts blast crappy Chromebooks reporting, defend platform's potential
http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?...-B69F-E19B-024BC4137078E1F0

Here is a bonus article talking about the state of actual sales...
Chromebooks have a 1% market share -- and a tough road to the enterprise
http://www.computerworld.com/s...he_enterprise?taxonomyId=15

Mobius Enigma said,

Virtually every site has an article on this... (Google/Bing are your friends)

Analysts blast crappy Chromebooks reporting, defend platform's potential
http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?...-B69F-E19B-024BC4137078E1F0

Here is a bonus article talking about the state of actual sales...
Chromebooks have a 1% market share -- and a tough road to the enterprise
http://www.computerworld.com/s...he_enterprise?taxonomyId=15

Articles were never wrong. People just didn't read or understand what "commercial channels" actually means.

stevan said,

Articles were never wrong. People just didn't read or understand what "commercial channels" actually means.

Yes articles were wrong, and the summaries of the reporting were wrong.

If you look over articles on CNet, Neowin, Verge, etc - they all report it straight up that Chromebook was 20% of notebook sales, with their own opinion based on this. This happened even when some of them provided the actual text that stated how narrow of a definition it was.

So yes, the originating report was not wrong; however the articles reporting on it were WRONG.

There is a reason the title is: "Analysts blast crappy Chromebooks reporting, defend platform's potential." Crappy reporting does make the articles 'wrong' as they asserted a generalization that was NOT TRUE.

Go beyond the links I provided, if this is not enough information.

See, even when I provide links, everyone just ignores the facts. *smacks head*

stevan said,

Articles were never wrong. People just didn't read or understand what "commercial channels" actually means.

Exactly.

Maybe the original report was only supposed to be read by industry insiders... and not the general public. But it got out... people reposted it... and all hell broke loose.

I admit... I poured over the original report quite a bit... and I still had no clue what "US Commercial Channel" meant.

He finally cleared it up in his followup article:

US Commercial Channel is sales to commercial resellers and distributors... not consumers... and it also doesn't include sales to business directly from manufacturers like Dell or HP.

If the original report spelled it out like that in the first place... maybe all the hoopla could have been avoided.

Max Norris said,
But we just had a recent article saying that PC sales were up by 10% just a little over a week ago..

welcome to neowin

Max Norris said,
But we just had a recent article saying that PC sales were up by 10% just a little over a week ago..

I thought the article said TABLET sales were up?

Max Norris said,
But we just had a recent article saying that PC sales were up by 10% just a little over a week ago..

I think it was about holidays sales.

People will blame Windows 8. I personally think it's more of the fact that hardware is at a point you really don't need a new machine every year, and that tablets seem to cover the needs of a whole lot of people.

I just had this question a while back... Customer asking why he needed the newest stuff in every or so years.

If it works then why upgrade?

stuff like that.

virtorio said,
People will blame Windows 8. I personally think it's more of the fact that hardware is at a point you really don't need a new machine every year, and that tablets seem to cover the needs of a whole lot of people.

I think that the hardware has sort of reached a point where it's more than powerful is the key point.

There will always be enthusiasts who want the most powerful hardware, but they will always be the exception. I even consider myself an enthusiast but up until recently my PC was only a lower spec Core i5, 8GB RAM, a 128GB SSD and a 1TB data drive. Not exactly mind blowing specs but it still ran everything just fine apart from the very latest games. If your computer works with everything just fine, why would you upgrade?

virtorio said,
People will blame Windows 8. I personally think it's more of the fact that hardware is at a point you really don't need a new machine every year, and that tablets seem to cover the needs of a whole lot of people.

QFT. Besides heavy-duty apps such as Photoshop that average users don't use, there's nothing except games that drive the need for ever more powerful hardware. The very fact that so many are able to fulfil their daily computing needs using less powerful tablet hardware is really telling.

Fahim S. said,
Cue negative Start Screen and Modern UI comments....

Well since you mentioned it, the whole windows 8.x thing is a colossal failure at retail, probably the biggest failure/disaster in the entire OS history of microsoft, it only showed minuscule growth 3 months last year with windows 7 showing more growth than 8.x did during the other months.

The metro garbage is mostly to blame, people don't like it, people don't want it, plain and simple.

wingliston said,
I want it. Its amazing on my Windows tablet.

Actually I completely love WP8, received my new Lumia 1520 in the mail yesterday, that thing is a monster but I love it, the real failure is on the desktop where windows 8.x simply does not belong.

Ah, someone else who realizes that Windows-8.x does not belong on the desktop (and also on laptops). When is Microsoft going to acknowledge this basic truth?

TsarNikky said,
Ah, someone else who realizes that Windows-8.x does not belong on the desktop (and also on laptops). When is Microsoft going to acknowledge this basic truth?

Right, because PC sales were the result of the Start Menu...

Order_66 said,

the real failure is on the desktop where windows 8.x simply does not belong.

wake up. developers of casual games and services aren't even targeting windows 7 anymore, which makes your argument about something not belonging seem silly. since when did windows users start refusing software support? that's laughable. without software, the OS will rot and die,and windows will become a niche product. how does one go about playing temple run on windows 7 for example? you mean they have to buy an ipad? oh there goes that windows sale,but at least it made you happy that the desktop remains pure.

Or, another idea... Maybe there are reasons people don't think they need to buy a new PC.. The one they have had has been upgraded or will still fast enough fro them... Maybe a SSD, a new version of Windows installed as it easily is run on hardware that came with Windows 7.

Order_66 said
the whole windows 8.x thing is a colossal failure at retail, probably the biggest failure/disaster in the entire OS history of microsoft, it only showed minuscule growth 3 months last year with windows 7 showing more growth than 8.x did during the other months.

Obviously, they failed. But, it's one thing to understand *why* they failed.

When Microsoft changed the UI of Windows with the release of 95, they had made the transition easy for people. They haven't done that with 8 though. Instead, they pretty much threw people under the bus with Windows 8. Now, whether people hate or like the Start Screen, it has made improvements that the Start Menu hasn't. For example, you can pin as many items to the Start Screen as you want. You can arrange a bunch of tiles into separate groups (Games, utils, etc.). You can also make the tiles smaller, so that also helps in terms of saving space. I personally use Start8, but I ocasionally use the Start Screen. I don't dislike it, but I do like both methods equally.

Order_66 said
The metro garbage is mostly to blame, people don't like it, people don't want it, plain and simple

Well that's purely subjective. Also, you have to remember that first impressions mean a lot, especially to the non tech savvy users. Now like I said, Microsoft did not do much to help people migrate from previous versions of Windows. In fact, all Microsoft really did as a form of help was provide some half-assed tutorial video that plays after the setup is finished. That video lacks so much that it makes me wonder how they even let that go or thought that it was sufficient for people.

Regardless, if people had the proper tutorial and walk-through (like in 8.1), then their first-impression of Windows 8 would've been a lot better because they would have known how to operate it.

Order_66 said,

Well since you mentioned it, the whole windows 8.x thing is a colossal failure at retail, probably the biggest failure/disaster in the entire OS history of microsoft, it only showed minuscule growth 3 months last year with windows 7 showing more growth than 8.x did during the other months.

The metro garbage is mostly to blame, people don't like it, people don't want it, plain and simple.

Quoted for truth.

dtourond said,

Obviously, they failed. But, it's one thing to understand *why* they failed.

When Microsoft changed the UI of Windows with the release of 95, they had made the transition easy for people. They haven't done that with 8 though. Instead, they pretty much threw people under the bus with Windows 8. Now, whether people hate or like the Start Screen, it has made improvements that the Start Menu hasn't. For example, you can pin as many items to the Start Screen as you want. You can arrange a bunch of tiles into separate groups (Games, utils, etc.). You can also make the tiles smaller, so that also helps in terms of saving space. I personally use Start8, but I ocasionally use the Start Screen. I don't dislike it, but I do like both methods equally.

Well that's purely subjective. Also, you have to remember that first impressions mean a lot, especially to the non tech savvy users. Now like I said, Microsoft did not do much to help people migrate from previous versions of Windows. In fact, all Microsoft really did as a form of help was provide some half-assed tutorial video that plays after the setup is finished. That video lacks so much that it makes me wonder how they even let that go or thought that it was sufficient for people.

Regardless, if people had the proper tutorial and walk-through (like in 8.1), then their first-impression of Windows 8 would've been a lot better because they would have known how to operate it.

They haven't failed. Not by a long shot. What Microsoft did wasn't easy, and to me they've been quite successful. They're coming off a successful upgrade cycle with Windows 7, and now they've succeeded in unifying their services and OS, both on the back end and front ed which is something no one else has accomplished yet. Don't take Order's posts has truth. He like's to blow things out of proportion.

I'm sure that Modern UI does have something to do with it. The thought that Microsoft doesn't know precisely what the market feels about it is utterly absurd.

Windows 8 is about where Microsoft is going and not what will please most people at the current point in time.

bilemke said,
Or, another idea... Maybe there are reasons people don't think they need to buy a new PC.. The one they have had has been upgraded or will still fast enough fro them... Maybe a SSD, a new version of Windows installed as it easily is run on hardware that came with Windows 7.

this exactly. there hasn't been a reason to upgrade to a new computer for anyone but serious gamers, and even then (from my experience) build their own computers. the old cpu, small hd and ram, etc... is still fine for browsing the web and using word

Order_66 said,

Well since you mentioned it, the whole windows 8.x thing is a colossal failure at retail, probably the biggest failure/disaster in the entire OS history of microsoft, it only showed minuscule growth 3 months last year with windows 7 showing more growth than 8.x did during the other months.

The metro garbage is mostly to blame, people don't like it, people don't want it, plain and simple.

Except if you look at the trends, especially in the gaming community, Windows 8 will be at least level pegging with Windows 7 by the end of the year.

It's not that Windows 8 is a failure (clearly it isn't). Simply, Windows 7 was one of the finest OSes ever produced so it will inevitably hold popularity.

Other products based on the Windows 8 OS are starting to gain traction. Despite the Xbox One being behind the PS4 it's still selling millions. WP8 is growing well.

Wait and see

Pretty much exactly - for that matter, did hardware requirements increase with either Windows 8 OR 8.1? That answer to that, of course, is a big fat NO - hardware requirements are UNCHANGED from Windows 7. Therefore, unless you have really old (XP-era) hardware, you need to upgrade the whole PC *why*?

Hardware-wise, I'm typical of the target for all those new Windows 8 and 8.1 PCs -I have desktop hardware from the Vista/7 era. However, how many upgrades have I done since just the release of Windows 8.1? Hardware-wise, it's been a mere two - and neither (that's right - neither) was OS-driven. Most folks in that same target category only upgrade the hardware when their software demands it (and more often than not, it's not the OS pushing hardware upgrades, let alone OS upgrades) - it's usually Application X or Game Y; otherwise, the user stays put - that is home PC users, mind you. Such is even more the case of business users (in or out of the enterprise) - while the GAME category won't be a driver in enterprises, line-of-business software certainly is, and how much is new in line-of-business software that is driving upgrades merely to Windows 7, let alone 8 or 8.1? What's driving enterprise upgrades is the expiration of support for XP - not necessarily ANY changes in terms of line-of-business software. Throw in that (in publicly-held companies) there is monstrous pressure to not only increase dividends, but to increase dividends paid to shareholders (because yields on Treasuries are at all-time lows), and businesses are being Scroogish, and in every way possible.

Dot Matrix said
They haven't failed. Not by a long shot. What Microsoft did wasn't easy, and to me they've been quite successful.
Well let me ask you this. If you were in charge of the execution of Windows 8, would you have thrown your user-base under the bus by not giving them the proper tools to help the migration process. Let me try and simplify that some more. Whenever a company like Microsoft does somewhat radical changes to something that's been part of the Windows UX since 1995, the right thing to do (at least, I think it's the right thing to do) would be to document the changes, tell the user what's new and how to make use of said changes.

As I previously said, Microsoft *only* provided a video that lacked a lot of information on how to use Windows 8. I personally tested this out on some of my friends who aren't tech savvy and most of them were confused.

If Microsoft had made proper documentation on how to use Windows 8, there wouldn't be so many people who are frustrated with it because they don't know how to operate it.

First impressions mean a lot, and Microsoft failed with Windows 8, because they did not make it easy for people to make that jump. I'm not saying the OS itself is bad, but if a company like them are going to change the way users operate it, I would think that the logical thing to do would be to give the users some form of tutorials to help ease the transistion.

Dot Matrix said
They're coming off a successful upgrade cycle with Windows 7, and now they've succeeded in unifying their services and OS, both on the back end and front ed which is something no one else has accomplished yet.
Oh, that's nice and all, but as for making the switch, they haven't mastered that part. That's for sure.

Dot Matrix said
Don't take Order's posts has truth. He like's to blow things out of proportion.
Everything I'm saying is based off of myself.