Editorial

Perception is killing Internet Explorer

Even though a new version was just released back in March, Internet Explorer is still bleeding market share. The growth that IE9 has gotten is mostly just cannibalization of older versions of IE, and overall it recently fell below 50% of market share. IE6, released in 2001, controls as much of the market as the latest version.

Microsoft has been trying very hard, especially with IE9, to breathe new life into it's browser. Arguably, they got it right this time. But it's not helping. Some people think that it's Microsoft's lack of a major presence in mobile that's hurting them. Other people will tell you that it's the lack of extensions and updates. But what's really behind the long, painful demise of Internet Explorer? It really began picking up steam with IE3 in 1996, very quickly becoming the #1 browser. They must have been doing something right. Somewhere along the line, though, something went horribly wrong.

It began in 2002. At that point, IE had 95% of the browser market. Netscape couldn't touch it, and there wasn't another real competitor on the horizon. Microsoft was king, so they could rest and enjoy the fruits of their labor, right? Wrong.

 

Phoenix came, quite appropriately, out of the ashes of Netscape, and by the time it became known as Mozilla Firefox in 2004, IE's cracks were starting to show. Compared to Firefox, it was clunky, slow, and boring. IE was a dog. It sucked. Microsoft's answer was to do nothing. It wasn't until October 2006, more than five years after the launch of IE6, that Microsoft released IE7. For the first time, IE had tabbed browsing, something that Firefox already had in 2002. IE7 was an improvement, but it was too late. The damage had been done; IE was the browser you used to download a better browser.

By the time IE8 was released in 2009 there was a new kid on the block: Google Chrome. It was fast, sleek, extendable, with all of Google's marketing power behind it. IE8 wasn't a dog, but it was hardly impressive enough to win any new fans, either.

Image courtesy of shoze.blogspot.com

Microsoft realized that they had to do something truly radical if they wanted to regain some of their lost market share. Rewriting large portions of the code from the ground up, they overhauled the entire interface of the browser. From the first time it was shown off, IE9 was well received.

It was released in March of 2011. Firefox 4.0 came out a few days later, and Google Chrome was already in it's 10th incarnation. Testing found that IE9 easily matched the speeds of its competitors, and it boasted a cleaner interface that allowed more room for the web. By all accounts, it was a worthy competitor to the best of them, though it still lacked strong support for extensions.

Even with all the praise it has received, IE9 is still getting the short end of the stick. Firefox's growth is more or less stagnant at this point, but Chrome continues to gobble up market share at an ever faster rate, much of it taken out of IE.

The real problem is the reputation that Internet Explorer 'earned' through the botched releases of yore. It doesn't matter how good of a product Microsoft releases, Internet Explorer has too much baggage behind it.

If Microsoft ran something similar to the Mojave Experiment like they did with Vista, demonstrating IE as a different product, I believe that it would be much more well received. Face it: the vast majority of consumers couldn't care less what browser they are using. They just want to get online and do what they want. They just want the browser to stay the hell out of their way (something IE is good at). Most of the criticism directed at IE comes from people like you and I. We like to think of ourselves as being 'in the know.'

 

How Internet Explorer is perceived (courtesy of verydemotivational.com

How Internet Explorer is perceived (courtesy of verydemotivational.com)

We are the people who fix our elderly neighbor's computers. We are enthusiasts. Some of us do this for a living. Many of you hate IE because of what it used to be, not because of what it is. If it was left up to a large portion of users, they would never move beyond it. Not because they hate it and they're being forced to use it, but because it works perfectly well enough for them. Like me, I bet that a lot of you are guilty of installing Firefox or Chrome on other people's computers. You couldn't leave IE on their computer in good conscience, not when it was the mess that it used to be.

It's not something I want to see happen, but from a business standpoint, I think that it's the best solution. Microsoft needs to drop the IE name. It might be lamented by the likes of us, an old friend going away, but I think that it would be best for Microsoft. They could hold on to the technology that they have built, but get rid of all the excess baggage that comes with the name Internet Explorer. It would be starting from a clean slate, and it would cost brand recognition. But is the recognition that comes from Internet Explorer really the kind of recognition that Microsoft wants?

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Regardless of the level of user base it drops to IE will never die. I see several reasons for it.

The pges designed by all those fly by night web designers who use FrontPage for the purpose will not render properly, links won't work, text will be displayed over graphics etc. For those pages one will HAVE to use IE.

Here in India, in past few months I have seen that a lot of big time banking software developers have shifted to web interfaces which are limited to IE. These simply won't work with any other browser.

Many on-line service providers - for instance Amedeus (International airline ticketing service for IATA members) use IE API. These too can't be accessed in other than IE.

Google is slick and FAST but there are some areas where they need to make drastic changes. Trying to download multiple links from the page using a download manager is a nightmare. The feature of highlighting of JUST the links simply does not work. It highlights a whole lot more garbage. I have to revert to FF (which is slowly becoming slow and clunky) just for this. Loading of FF is slow but so is the shutting down. Too often it remains active in the background and the only way to start it again is to kill the process using either task manager or the really old time and much more reliable IBProcMan.

Once again Bill Gates proves you don't need brains to be a billionaire. Of course he lost maket share when he decided to leave XP users in the dust. That had to be 50% of the IE users. I hate Windows 7 and I intent to use XP for as long as possible, so bye bye IE.

I use XP Pro on my main computer. IE8 is the last IE to be supported on XP. MS...bad move!
MS has divorced themselves from a huge installed base. MS is forcing me to go with Chrome and Firefox. With them I get the same benefits as IE9 and beyond but don't have to upgrade to Windows 7 and beyond. This is but one way they are losing market share. Another is that once XP users upgrade and have been using other browsers, they no longer bother with IE and rightfully so.

And there's another reason why they should drop the IE name: it's misleading. It's not an internet browser; it's a Web browser. "Web Explorer" would be a better name, but it's too generic like "IE".

But seriously, I like the idea of rebranding it. Hopefully, it will aid the push to get everyone off IE8 and below.

Eberton Sobreira said,
This browser-war is booooring. It sucks. I use IE8/9 and Chrome. Period. They are the best for me.

The war's long over. IE lost years ago. It's dying a slow and painful death in an abyss of dwindling usage.

Not buying this theory.

Firefox is still holding pretty strong and not dropping much, despite a persistent "OMG it's such a memory hog" reputation.

My theory: Computing is changing. We no longer "have" to use Microsoft operating systems and software to work at top efficiency. Especially not when mobile. The downwards trend isn't due to a poor reputation of IE. That's oversimplifying things. The downwards trend is simply due to IE not being the most useful (or even possible) choice for so many users. IE is not even a choice for the world's popular smartphones and tablets today. Not. Even. A. Choice. Let that sink in for a moment. And no, I don't count WP7 as "popular" just yet. It may one day be, and that day may be when IE starts to at least flatten out. That people find themselves getting along just fine on their mobile with Chrome, Opera, or Safari opens their minds to the whole idea of "Hmm, maybe I should use this browser on my desktop as well. I'm so used to it now." This has never happened until ~4 years ago with the arrival of iPhone and Android, and this was also when IE started having real problems.

Edited by Northgrove, Nov 7 2011, 3:36pm :

Northgrove said,

Firefox is still holding pretty strong and not dropping much, despite a persistent "OMG it's such a memory hog" reputation.

Yeah, but that's mostly FUD. IE on the other hand fully deserves its infamy.

Northgrove said,
Not buying this theory.

Firefox is still holding pretty strong and not dropping much, despite a persistent "OMG it's such a memory hog" reputation.

It's not a reputation.

Firefox does memory leak. And badly. Not a problem for the average joe using a browser 10 minutes once in a week. But for a dev it can be a problem.

It's not fun when Firefox use 600MB of ram after 10 hours.

[quote=LaP said,]It's not a reputation.[/quote]
You're right, it's FUD.

Firefox does memory leak. And badly. Not a problem for the average joe using a browser 10 minutes once in a week. But for a dev it can be a problem.[/quote]
All software has memory leaks. If you ever wrote any code you'd know that. Whether directly or indirectly with third party middleware/libraries. The latest Firefox builds have minimum leaks.

Try installing ABP and noscript and you'll soon reduce your memory footprint.
[quote=LaP said,]
It's not fun when Firefox use 600MB of ram after 10 hours.[/quote]
Any browser can use that if you open enough tabs/visit the right sites.

LaP said,

It's not a reputation.

Firefox does memory leak. And badly. Not a problem for the average joe using a browser 10 minutes once in a week. But for a dev it can be a problem.

It's not fun when Firefox use 600MB of ram after 10 hours.

my IE commit charge/RAM was as follows:

28 tabs:
3.2GB commit/1.8GB RAM
160-230 browser actions

my Firefox commit charge/RAM usage is as follows:

28 tabs:
980MB commit/1.2GB RAM
175 browser actions


so who's bloated now?

iwillneverstop said,
DOES MICROSOFT REALLY WORRY ABOUT BROWSER MARKET SHARE?
Can anybody give some reasons?

The less people use IE, the less people use Bing. That annoys the hell out of Steve Ballmer lol.

You can't deny the fact that at the end IE 6 was simply far behind other browsers. IE 7 had never been close. imo IE 7 was worse than IE 6 because IE 6 was at the beginning good just took too much time to update it. IE 8 was better but still lagging way behind.

Unless you were a fan of MS or did not really use a web browser that much there was no good reason to use IE 6, 7 and 8 over other browsers out there.

IE 9 is good but not better. It's better for some parts and worse for other parts.

You can't expect people to forget 10 years in a wing flap. Why would they ? Because it's the precious MS.

MS is not different that any other companies. I'm sorry but when your product ***** for 10 years you can't expect people to buy it again in a hearth beat because it is finally as good as the competition.

And if the Firefox team doesn't resolve the memory leak soon things wont be easy for them too once people switch they don't come back easily.

It really began picking up steam with IE3 in 1996, very quickly becoming the #1 browser. They must have been doing something right

There seems to be a misconception that just because IE has a large market share it must be popular. It has the market share it has today by virtue of being installed by default (even the EU) on every desktop PC/laptop being shipped. End of argument.

That's why IE is losing market share today. More and more people are net savvy and actively choose to download another browser. Very few people, given the choice actually prefer to use IE. Sure, you'll get a few fanboys, but that's minuscule.

MS is sending mixed signals by retaining Extended Windows XP Support but not releasing IE9 for XP. While I loved IE9, Some of the corporate websites I have to access are still supported only by IE8 and do not work with IE9. The company will not make these websites IE9 compatible as many of their machines are still running XP.

I've said it before, but Microsoft really shot themselves in the foot with IE6 and their subsequent "bowing down" to corporations who refuse to migrate past it. If Microsoft has been sensible/wise, they would have ended support for IE6 long long long ago rather than pandering to big companies with lazy IT depts/developers.

Internet Explorer would be so much better had they done this!

http://blog.mid.as/index.php/2...osoft-holding-back-the-web/

IE still faces severely issues for me, the number one is that it's from Microsoft - they never put enough quality into the product: too little and too late. The tabs is a good example - I used to laugh at people who had like five IE windows opened at the same time...

Also, extensions... Opera (the browser) I am using now doesn't have very good ones either, but they make up for it with better customization, better than Firefox, and nice features such as the mouse gestures.

There's no real advantage of using IE over any browser. In this market, you need it. Chrome has its speed, fast development, minimal UI and Firefox has its addons. Tell me... why should I use IE?

Tpiom said,
[...]
I forgot to mention it's only for Windows. If you use different systems, like me, it has its advantages to use the same browser: import/export, same addons, etc. Not to mention it's very fragmented.

Why doesn't XP have the latest version? Microsoft just decides to kill the support when it's convenient for them - not what's best for the users.

Yeah right! Lack of XP support is killing IE but neither MS nor its fanboys want to hear the bitter truth. Although I find myself using IE9 on Windows 7/8 but MS shouldn't have abandoned XP. (And please don't bother bring up the same argument about it being 10 years old). Copying Chrome in the UI department isn't going to help either. They need to put back those removed features.

It's funny when third party Browser makers care more about an OS's user base than the OS maker itself. LOL. This is yet another reason not to support IE even on Windows 7/8. Show your displeasure by using (along with friends and family) alternative browsers.

Joey S said,
It's funny when third party Browser makers care more about an OS's user base than the OS maker itself.

Like all your comments, this is just some random nonsense that isn't supported by anything.
If you're talking about the fact that IE9 does not run on XP, that's because it uses DirectX10 which XP does NOT support. That's also a reason why it's a LOT better in handling graphics than other browsers.

Coi said,

If you're talking about the fact that IE9 does not run on XP, that's because it uses DirectX10 which XP does NOT support. That's also a reason why it's a LOT better in handling graphics than other browsers.

Firefox specifically uses Direct3D 9 hardware acceleration so it works in both XP and Windows 7. Microsoft could have done the same, but instead chose to ignore a large proportion of their user base.
Coi said,

Like all your comments, this is just some random nonsense that isn't supported by anything.

Please elaborate.

Joey S said,

Firefox specifically uses Direct3D 9 hardware acceleration so it works in both XP and Windows 7. Microsoft could have done the same, but instead chose to ignore to use a newer, improved technology which the users of XP unfortunately can't use.

Fixed.

I'm not a IE hater lets say IE is not my browser of choice. this should have been in forum but people in forum wont respond so i'll write here. My in law works in municipality and she has novel groupwise to log in. when she goes to that page it says the page has security threat (certificate problem) for crying out loud its from municipality fix it.. and here is what happens, IE8 gives warning if i ignore then it goes to the mail page (gives warning everytime i try to log in thou) tada working... firefox gives same thing but as soon i add it, it works like a charm no warning afterwards. Then comes IE9 give me warning and if i ignore and click next just gives me blank page if i refresh then i go back to warning page again. here is how i tried to fix it, I downloaded the certificate saved it and put it on the safe list (internet options, content certificate) what the heck did i do it wrong. my inlaws are use to IE but i made her run firefox for mail. ... wait did i forgot moral of the story.. hmm i still prefer Firefox over IE (thou IE exist in my computer and so does Opera and Chrome)

I'll use IE 9 over Firefox or Chrome EVERY DAY of the week. To be honest, and hoping this doesn't get me a warning, but the whole reason either of those are kicking so much butt, is totally because of fanboys!

As a straight up browser, meaning no add-ons, IE9 kicks both those browsers butt! The only 2 good add-ons are adblock and flashblock anyway, and IE9 can block ads very easily.

Personally, I normally don't care what the UI looks like, but Chrome's is absolutely ignorant!!

As like every one else though, I use a few different browsers, Firefox and Chrome aren't one of them though and NEVER will be, but I WILL use IE 9 every dang day!!

Definitely to bad MS took so long to wake up to the age of the updated browser.

cork1958 said,
I'll use IE 9 over Firefox or Chrome EVERY DAY of the week. To be honest, and hoping this doesn't get me a warning, but the whole reason either of those are kicking so much butt, is totally because of fanboys

Wait, so Linux users aren't using IE because they are fanboys? LOL. Come back to reality dude. People actively choose to use Firefox, Chrome, Opera. Those who use IE don't know what a browser is. If they did, they'd be using FF.. You see the logic
cork1958 said,

As a straight up browser, meaning no add-ons, IE9 kicks both those browsers butt! The only 2 good add-ons are adblock and flashblock anyway, and IE9 can block ads very easily.

Yeah, and if you stopped Windows preloading IE components so IE doesn't startup faster than it should, then.. Wait! LoL.

The only IE addons I've ever seen are those annoying toolbars/malware. I'll stick to Firefox thanks.

cork1958 said,

As like every one else though, I use a few different browsers, Firefox and Chrome aren't one of them though and NEVER will be, but I WILL use IE 9 every dang day!!

And there we go, case closed, you're a fanboy. Nothing wrong with that of course. But you can't expect anyone to take you seriously when you say you'll never use anything but IE "every dang day".

Joey S said,

People actively choose to use Firefox, Chrome, Opera. Those who use IE don't know what a browser is. If they did, they'd be using FF.. You see the logic

Now who's the fanboy here?
I use IE9 because it's the fastest, most secure and I don't feel the need for thousands of little crappy add-ons that slow down your PC / browser and actually turn out useless anyway.

Coi said,

I use IE9 because it's the fastest, most secure and I don't feel the need for thousands of little crappy add-ons that slow down your PC / browser and actually turn out useless anyway.

You like adverts? You like malware and viruses? Good luck with IE lol.

I've said this ever since the Internet Explorer 9 developer platform was released: Microsoft singlehandedly destroyed their browser's reputation. Over 10 years of bad performance, lacking features, slow update pace and bad press are stuck in the back of people's heads, something that won't be easily forgotten. Microsoft should have dumped the "Internet Explorer" brand and give version 9 a new name instead so it could have a fresh start in the eyes of the consumer.

That's why it's important to have real competition. If you let one company dominate the web browsers it'll set back progress for years and do untold damage

It's true. My roommate who's a Comp Sci major finds it hard to believe the latest IE can be any good. He said he's perfectly content with this Firefox and the extensions he has. Oh, and that IE doesn't have any AdBlocker or whatever (Yes, I know there's a workaround for IE9).

People who know enough to realize there's other browsers outside IE, but aren't in the loop as far as tech goes, are quick to judge IE after feeling angered at MS for having a lousy browser in comparison (with good reason). They'll find it hard to see IE as being a decent competitor, and the resentment will overpower logic.

If Microsoft can continue to impress us with better browsers, and a slightly more frequent update cycle (rather than every release of Windows), it'd help kill this brand perception. Hotmail is in a similar predicament.

Quikboy said,
It's true. My roommate who's a Comp Sci major finds it hard to believe the latest IE can be any good.

Well I can't find anything compelling that's gonna make me give up Firefox + extensions. That's the problem with Microsoft and IE in general. They think if they can match feature sets, that's enough. It's not. And they haven't even done that.

And all that's before you get into the whole ActiveX drive by malware issue.

Quikboy said,

Oh, and that IE doesn't have any AdBlocker or whatever (Yes, I know there's a workaround for IE9).

There are multiple ways to block ads in IE, unfortunately, like Chrome's adblock addons, none of them work as well as Firefox's ABP. And you'd be surprised how much quicker a page loads and performs inside the browser once all that crap is blocked. So it's not just the annoyance factor, but also general performance.

Quikboy said,

...are quick to judge IE after feeling angered at MS for having a lousy browser in comparison (with good reason). They'll find it hard to see IE as being a decent competitor, and the resentment will overpower logic.

As I've said before, people (generally) who know what browser is don't use IE. IE's market share is based on ignorance (of what a browser is) and being installed by default. Very few people go and actively seek to install a new version of IE.
Quikboy said,

If Microsoft can continue to impress us with better browsers, and a slightly more frequent update cycle (rather than every release of Windows), it'd help kill this brand perception. Hotmail is in a similar predicament.

I predict once IE's market share goes below 30%, Microsoft will do a WinMo/WP7 and rebrand it, hoping people will forget its horrible past. Either that or use some anti-competitive move to force out the competition.

cleverclogs said,
Once again, still don't get what the point of extensions are. Does the AVERAGE user needs these... no.
ie9 ftw.

Agreed, I turned off extension support in Safari.

cleverclogs said,
Once again, still don't get what the point of extensions are. Does the AVERAGE user needs these... no.
ie9 ftw.

I got abp, some ip lookup one, screen capture elite, yet another smooth scrolling, greasemonkey (with youtube downloader scripts), and status-4-evar. I can not live without abp, screen capture elite and the greasemonkey youtube downloaders.

cleverclogs said,
Once again, still don't get what the point of extensions are. Does the AVERAGE user needs these... no.
ie9 ftw.

Clearly you've never used the web with Firefox and ABP. Once you try it, you can't ever go back

Joey S said,

Clearly you've never used the web with Firefox and ABP. Once you try it, you can't ever go back

Well, I am the evidence you can. I tried all other browsers, and actively decided to stay with IE9.

Needs more Extensions/Addons if they made it able to install Firefox Plugins then they would be on a winner

Someone from IE dev team read this please ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

http://www.buzzhunt.co.uk/wp-c...r-to-give-them-a-chance.png

The article outlines the major flaw - as far as I'm concerned - quite quickly. IE6/7 was horrible, and then true competitors such as Firefox started to appear. At that point in time, any IT guy would recommend any browser other than Internet Explorer.
Sadly today, everyone thinks the same way; they have to use a browser other than Internet Explorer. Although it's not the case, IE's reputation in the past is damaging it's current position.

The reason why IE9 is losing market share;

It's slower than other browsers.

It doesn't support real add ons. The ones available in the IE9 "Gallery" are nothing more than bookmarklets or ports from other browsers with severely limited functionality. Second to that, they install into the OS and are a pain to uninstall sometimes.

Wakers said,

It's slower than other browsers.

This proves that the biggest reason for IE's marketshare drop is simply ignorance. Bigoted people who just are scared to check the facts.

Microsoft's browser is still behind firefox and chrome in customisability. I hate the way add-ons are installed and there is no way to delete them or prevent them from installing at all. I can customise firefox the way i want. In short, IE9 still sucks ........

Psykosonik said,
Microsoft's browser is still behind firefox and chrome in customisability. I hate the way add-ons are installed and there is no way to delete them or prevent them from installing at all. I can customise firefox the way i want. In short, IE9 still sucks ........

Tools -> Manage add-ons...

Microsoft is not after the market-share. If they were they would have released a version for XP too!

They have a share of almost 40% on Windows 7. So they could have gained a very larg share. IE doesn't make them much money. Windows does. And therefore not making a version for XP, was them forcing the 80% PC users with XP, to upgrade.

Microsoft is really not worried about this.

The number one reason to avoid IE is the fact that the majority of malware out there is written specifically to target it.

It makes perfect sense from fraudster's point of view. If your goal is to infect as much PCs as possible (to increase the success rate of your scheme), then you're gonna write a code to attack the default, the most common browser.

zhiVago said,
The number one reason to avoid IE is the fact that the majority of malware out there is written specifically to target it.

It makes perfect sense from fraudster's point of view. If your goal is to infect as much PCs as possible (to increase the success rate of your scheme), then you're gonna write a code to attack the default, the most common browser.

Or the most easily exploited web browser. Microsoft isn't very good at getting patches out to their users quickly. Firefox and Chrome are.

By the way, correlation does not equal causation.

I switched to IE when I upgraded to Windows 7.Its fine, but what I believe is killing it, is the lack of updates like FF and Chrome do.MS needs to make IE updates separate and automatic, atleast for home users, and to release them quickly.

kInG aLeXo said,
I switched to IE when I upgraded to Windows 7.Its fine, but what I believe is killing it, is the lack of updates like FF and Chrome do.MS needs to make IE updates separate and automatic, atleast for home users, and to release them quickly.

I'd really love to update my IE on a monthly basis… /s

kInG aLeXo said,
I switched to IE when I upgraded to Windows 7.Its fine, but what I believe is killing it, is the lack of updates like FF and Chrome do.MS needs to make IE updates separate and automatic, atleast for home users, and to release them quickly.

Ah yes, because most home users are in the know about their version numbers right?

I use the little "e" thingy, or "the one that kinda looks like the old simon game", or "I just click on that orange and blue one" is the response most home users have.

For me it's not perception that stops me using IE9, it's just that on my computer it's slower than Chrome with the sites I use, I would be happy to use it if MS made it faster - simple

UKer said,
For me it's not perception that stops me using IE9, it's just that on my computer it's slower than Chrome with the sites I use, I would be happy to use it if MS made it faster - simple

Only as fast as your ISP will allow A true workman never blames his tools

I was using ie, and despite Firefox was getting better n better, I stacked w ie until ie8. It's just the startup speed the bothered me at first... After switching to Firefox n it got slower as well, I tried chrome n finally I landed myself w a browser that's fast at start!!! Ie9 is fast too, but I guess I won't bother switching. There's a saying - if it's not broken, don't change it. That's my take on choosing/switching browser.

I am a web developer and I hate IE. its like for every website IE has some incompatibility issues and I am using Microsoft technology for web development. I mean come on.. chrome release a version every month whereas IE release every 2 years. IF they want to be in browsers list in the future they should think twice. I think the only reason that IE is still most used because its pre-installed with windows and average users or local intranet admins are lazy enough to install a better browser.

In regards to my personally preference, I prefer Chrome -> Firefox -> IE.

However, in regards to my perception of IE, it went from bad browser to avoid to (IE6) a rather nice browser (IE 8-9) but still a bit behind the features of Firefox / Chrome.

Mozilla and Google are still more agile when it comes to refreshing there browsers where Microsoft still takes longer to refresh (however as pointed out nowhere near as bad as it was before when MS was content with it's market share and ignored IE).

etempest said,
In regards to my personally preference, I prefer Chrome -> Firefox -> IE.

However, in regards to my perception of IE, it went from bad browser to avoid to (IE6) a rather nice browser (IE 8-9) but still a bit behind the features of Firefox / Chrome.

Mozilla and Google are still more agile when it comes to refreshing there browsers where Microsoft still takes longer to refresh (however as pointed out nowhere near as bad as it was before when MS was content with it's market share and ignored IE).

MS's browser refreshes often require windows updates... which require restarts which is annoying.

It's inevitable that ie9 is going to loose marketshare, there is too many perfectly good browsers out there. Microsoft just needs to keep IE up to date and competitive which they are doing now. It's just a matter of preference. I currently use Chrome the most but I have no allegiance to any browser. This hatred of Microsoft and anything associated with them is is getting a little stale. Grow Up!

Good or bad, MS is reapping what he sowed. And although I know IE9 is a much better browser than it's previous versions, FireFox's flexibility and myriad of add-ons is what keeps me using it.

I used to like the browser wars, but we've come to a point where people actually expect the browsers to follow the standards and the whole point of browsers these days is to have a minimalistic yet functional UI.
IEs success was not only based on the fact that it was bundled with windows, but the fact that they had many non standard stuff that it took years for web developers to grow out of.

now save from very little details one always expect every browser to display the same page the same way across all platforms.

I agree. IE9 is a decent browser,but it's the brand and the erception about the brand which is slowly killing it. Lack of add ons in a major impediment,but I do use it as my secondary browser.
It is almost the same as Symantec AV. It was a bloatware in 2005/06,but Symantec has come a long way since then. Still,people keep on saying Norton is too slow and will hog th system et al.

There are excellent (in my opinion, better as well) open-source alternatives to IE. Not many times do we get the choice of excellent open-source software Vs. closed proprietary.

On top of that, Microsoft abused its power with IE so that sites were "IE only" due to the standards they purposely failed to adhere to. Therefore, businesses and consumers were 'locked in' to Microsoft for many years. IE9 have supposedly changed this attitude, but I don't believe that Microsoft's business values have changed. Have they hidden or not documented features that potentially could be used as a future 'lock in', we don't know.

I fail to understand any computer literate user that uses IE above the open-source alternatives when they are this good.

Also, I do use closed proprietary applications if open-source doesn't fit my needs; I'm not an open-source extremist.

biggest mistake with IE9, it doesn't run on XP which still has 50%+ market share, so by the time XP dies in 2018 IE will be reduced to 5% market share.

alexalex said,
biggest mistake with IE9, it doesn't run on XP which still has 50%+ market share, so by the time XP dies in 2018 IE will be reduced to 5% market share.

In 2018, XP will be long gone and forgotten and have no where near 1% market share, so that ain't gonna have an affect, one way or another, on IE. By then, Firefox will be king of the hill anyway

alexalex said,
biggest mistake with IE9, it doesn't run on XP which still has 50%+ market share, so by the time XP dies in 2018 IE will be reduced to 5% market share.

IE9 has a dependency on DX10. There is no DX10 for XP, due in no small part to the change in the WDDM.
That's like asking for a turbo charger on a model T.

There is a difference between we telling people to install Chrome / Firefox and the quality of IE.

Many, really "in the know" knows IE 9 is really good, and in many ways leap over Firefox.

But anyone who has ever developed for the Web during IE 6 era, would have understand. Until the day IE becomes SO Good to ignore, we will never use, or tell others to use IE.

This will be our revenge.

iwod said,
There is a difference between we telling people to install Chrome / Firefox and the quality of IE.

Many, really "in the know" knows IE 9 is really good, and in many ways leap over Firefox.

But anyone who has ever developed for the Web during IE 6 era, would have understand. Until the day IE becomes SO Good to ignore, we will never use, or tell others to use IE.

This will be our revenge.

Not only is that pathetically petty, but it's monumentally idiotic.

What you're basically saying is, even if IE(n) is the best available browser, you wouldn't recommend it out of spite. Which would essentially hold the web back by making people cling to outdated/inferior browsers.

So, petty, stupid AND hypocritical. Nice.

Athernar said,

Not only is that pathetically petty, but it's monumentally idiotic.

What you're basically saying is, even if IE(n) is the best available browser, you wouldn't recommend it out of spite. Which would essentially hold the web back by making people cling to outdated/inferior browsers.

So, petty, stupid AND hypocritical. Nice.

No, its idiotic to reward someone by using their product even after it has failed you many times over. Smart people reward those who deserve it.

Athernar said,

Not only is that pathetically petty, but it's monumentally idiotic.

What you're basically saying is, even if IE(n) is the best available browser, you wouldn't recommend it out of spite. Which would essentially hold the web back by making people cling to outdated/inferior browsers.

So, petty, stupid AND hypocritical. Nice.

Um... i did say become so good to ignore. If it is the best, which depends on ones opinion, then of coz we will use it. Until then, Microsoft will have to work VERY hard to win back what they lose.

Cash Money Billionaire said,

No, its idiotic to reward someone by using their product even after it has failed you many times over. Smart people reward those who deserve it.

If the software is good, then that's all that matters. Thus by definition, it "deserves it".

Unless you're some sort of ignorant and irrational fanboy with his/her head stuck in the sand.

Well written and worth a read..

Is everything all right at neowin atm D:

While I'm not convinced that MS should drop the IE name, at least your argument was coherent and justified. A nice change from the normal crap

I use Palemoon x64....yeah, hashed firefox, but I have more customizations available on FF than I do with IE. Just typing about:config gets you to some of the obscure settings that you can't get to on IE. I keep IE updated, if for anything else, the once in a while MS updates that have to have IE, but that's it.

While I use Safari on my MacBook I still use IE9 on my Windows box and VM. Chrome just really does nothing for me as it seems they spend no time trying to improve the user experience, and Firefox just feels to heavy to me.

Epic0range said,
While I use Safari on my MacBook I still use IE9 on my Windows box and VM. Chrome just really does nothing for me as it seems they spend no time trying to improve the user experience, and Firefox just feels to heavy to me.

Me too

Maybe you don't know:

1) To block ads in Internet Explorer 9: just go to http://fanboy.co.nz/adblock/ie.html. Click "Fanboy Adblock List for Internet Explorer 9" - Add TPL (Tracking Protection List).

P/S: Fanboy Adblock List is also famous in Firefox world.

2) To Spell Check For IE:
Download and install Speckie (http://www.versoworks.com/home/)

3) Internet Explorer 10 Platform Preview 3 (Developer Preview) has Spellchecking, Autocorrection (More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_10)

I think it's like this. I will NEVER put another piece of Symantec software on my computer, EVER again. This because of how badly that software treated myself and all my customers. The day came when the software itself was causing more trouble than the viruses. I think people have the same perception of Microsoft. There was a period of a few years, the virus years, where Windows was flat out unusable because of pop-ups, malware, bluescreens, freezing etc. etc. etc. People didn't want to have to worry about that stuff, and the Mac was so much less of a target, and less problematic because they didn't have as big of a job, and they didn't have to worry about backwards compatibility. So people ended up heading in that direction, and elsewhere. If MS had done nothing since then, I would have given up too. It was that close actually. But they have improved, and continue to improve. If not for that , I'd be gone too. But it was close. I can't really blame anyone for leaving IE. MS dug themselves this hole, and now they are in the position of digging out. The product is good. Now they need marketing. They need to win over the ones who don't have a horse in this race, because there is a percentage that will never come back no matter what.

IE9 has too many bugs. For example, try to post a Note on Facebook, that contains any link or URL. First off, ANY spacing between paragraphs is gone, and the url's are totally screwed up. THIS ONLY happens with IE9. This is just one example. It is also an example of something that does NOT happen on any other major browser.

And what is up with website favicons with IE9?? Sometimes they are there in the tab and sometimes they are not...

IE9 is not junk because of any major issue, it is because of a slew of seemingly insignificant issues that hamper work flow, and that are not found in FF, Chrome, Opera, or Safari

The reason for bugs to appear is mostly because of the website itself. Although every browser can have difficulties handling pages (depends on the page and/or the browser). But still, that's why multiple browsers exist.

IE9 is fantastic browser. It has trouble rendering some sites, but so does Chrome. I still prefer Chrome's UI of putting the tabs all the way at the top. Eagerly awaiting IE 10.

lack of an extension community is probably what kills it most for me. chrome and firefox have it going on up front and visual, right from the go

The problem is windows doesn't come with Internet explorer 9, it is an upgrade through windows updates. If windows came with it I doubt many people would look to change it.

Personally I upgrade any vista or w7 computer to ie9 and leave it. Do I put chrome on the system.

Myself? I use chrome purely for Adblock, flash ads kill my net book, while with Adblock it handles everything I need perfectly!

IE9 isn't that bad. But the thing is, like Chrome, there are too many quirks to me that drive me from using it. Same with Firefox, except after version 2 it went downhill. I've stuck with Opera for over 5 years now because it's the closest thing to what I need.

I'm not sure what IE 9 offers that makes it better than any of the other browsers. I use Safari, Firefox and Chrome, and they all have something I like. I tried IE 9 and 10, the UI looked terrible, and nothing was very intuitive.

Still, that's no reason to hate it. You want to know why people hate IE though? Because it's damn near impossible to run multiple versions, and the upgrade route is painful for a lot of home users. Which means to test compatibility, you're either stuck reading through issue logs, running multiple VMs, or just saying screw it. People can laugh at Chrome's version 20, but at least you can be relatively sure that people running Chrome have a reasonable new version installed.

threetonesun said,

Still, that's no reason to hate it. You want to know why people hate IE though? Because it's damn near impossible to run multiple versions, and the upgrade route is painful for a lot of home users. Which means to test compatibility, you're either stuck reading through issue logs, running multiple VMs, or just saying screw it. People can laugh at Chrome's version 20, but at least you can be relatively sure that people running Chrome have a reasonable new version installed.

Choice is good, use what works for you Just keep in mind that most people don't want to do any of those things. For most people, I think modern IE is fine, it's just that people still think that it's old IE. I think the interface is great, very clean and intrusive.

I think IE9 is decent and leave it on peoples PC's that I fix as opposed to instantly swapping it for Firefox/Chrome etc...like I did with previous versions of IE. That being said I still think it lacks in a few departments for the "enthusiast". Perfectly fine for family/friends, but for advanced users not so much.

Really like IE9 as my browser - and yes, the perception of IE has been poor overall, ever since the creation of Firefox. But, IE9 is a huge improvement and a very good browser.

remixedcat said,
lack of addons.

That's not the one big reason to switch because IE9 is still pretty much the fastest and most secure browser out there.

I agree, the perception is terrible. It's the old attitude of "MS Sucks, get rid of IE and get Firefox!" I had this the other day, and had to have a lengthy discussion about how IE didn't suck, and it was actually a very decent browser.

generko said,
I can't even view Tumblr properly on IE 9. The fonts rendered there are unreadable.

I haven't had any trouble using it with Tumblr. IE9 is actually supposed to render fonts better than the other browsers, although some people prefer how Safari does it. Regardless, they look much better on IE than they do on Firefox. Maybe you're just experiencing a glitch?

Make sure you have the right fonts installed on your system. I use IE (I don't even have another browser installed) and I have no problems with Tumblr.

ThePitt said,
since they dont support XP anymore, what they do expect?. Chrome and FF still running on XP why IE dont?

IE still runs on XP. Just not the latest version. Eventually other browsers will be the same. You don't see them supporting Windows 98 do you?

I exclusively only use IE on my Windows 7 desktop.

I never liked IE8, but after I installed and IE9 and started using it again I never looked back. Does IE have it shortcomings? YES. However, I think the the ridiculous acquisitions people make about IE being slow and unusable is BS.

I just wish they would include a spell check in IE, like Safari.

dekoy said,
I exclusively only use IE on my Windows 7 desktop.

I never liked IE8, but after I installed and IE9 and started using it again I never looked back. Does IE have it shortcomings? YES. However, I think the the ridiculous acquisitions people make about IE being slow and unusable is BS.

I just wish they would include a spell check in IE, like Safari.

Sounds like me! I use IE9 exclusively on my PC nowadays, too. Spellchecking was a big problem for me, give Speckie a try. I couldn't live without it. Once you have it installed, you'll never know that it's not a native feature. http://speckie.com/home/

dekoy said,
I exclusively only use IE on my Windows 7 desktop.

I never liked IE8, but after I installed and IE9 and started using it again I never looked back. Does IE have it shortcomings? YES. However, I think the the ridiculous acquisitions people make about IE being slow and unusable is BS.

I just wish they would include a spell check in IE, like Safari.

To Spell Check For IE:
Download and install Speckie (http://www.versoworks.com/home/)

dekoy said,
I exclusively only use IE on my Windows 7 desktop.

I never liked IE8, but after I installed and IE9 and started using it again I never looked back. Does IE have it shortcomings? YES. However, I think the the ridiculous acquisitions people make about IE being slow and unusable is BS.

I just wish they would include a spell check in IE, like Safari.

The good news is that IE10 will use the system-wide spellcheck built in to Windows 8. I'm not sure whether IE10 on Windows 7 will have it though.

dekoy said,
However, I think the the ridiculous acquisitions people make about IE being slow and unusable is BS.


IE 6, 7 and 8 was slow. They were actually all unusable with an internal app here so we had to install Firefox for employees using this web app.

You can't expect people to forget 10 years in a wing flap.

IE9 is a good browser but it fails on a few fronts, Extensions, Themes and poor click jacking and anti popup support, I know there are BHO and Addons but none in the same levels as the other mainstream ones like ad block, noscript, ghostery etc that making browsing that much smoother and more pleasant.

This. It's not that IE is necessarily bad, but chrome and Firefox just seem work better for what I need in a browser.

Dermot said,
IE9 is a good browser but it fails on a few fronts, Extensions, Themes and poor click jacking and anti popup support, I know there are BHO and Addons but none in the same levels as the other mainstream ones like ad block, noscript, ghostery etc that making browsing that much smoother and more pleasant.

I would happily use IE9 if it gained significant extension support. I'm yet to find as quick and good looking a browser but I simply use too many extensions that I'd miss.

Dermot said,
IE9 is a good browser but it fails on a few fronts, Extensions, Themes and poor click jacking and anti popup support, I know there are BHO and Addons but none in the same levels as the other mainstream ones like ad block, noscript, ghostery etc that making browsing that much smoother and more pleasant.

That's one of the reasons why I not use Fx any longer, I want not fiddle around with buggy plugins. The only "Addon" (apart from addons like Flash) that I use for Chrome and IE is a system wide working AD-Filter (proxy filter). And if you search for it, there are Addons for IE, but most of them not on this worse MS ieaddon site.

"Article said"
You couldn't leave IE on their computer in good conscience, not when it was the mess that it used to be.

A sad and painful truth.

Jose_49 said,

A sad and painful truth.

Therein lies the perception problem. IE wasnt "a mess" back then, and it certainly isn't now.

Raa said,

Therein lies the perception problem. IE wasnt "a mess" back then, and it certainly isn't now.

it was a mess back then.... it took 5 years to update from ie6 to ie7... yes 5 years..... that was messed up for me... but i have never used any browser untill ie8 when i switched..

Majesticmerc said,

Ironically the versions of IE that you didn't want were also the ones you couldn't remove.


True.

Furthermore, @Raa:
IE was a mess, Firefox changed my life. I could browse faster, have tabs, customization, and even have a proper download manager whereas I could stop the download and resume it, something little IE didn't have until 8 months ago.

I think IE9 is a great browser. I'm rocking it on my PC and WP7. Maybe IE needs to increment version numbers every week like Firefox. They're on 8 now? They were at 4 back in March!

GaMMa said,
I think IE9 is a great browser. I'm rocking it on my PC and WP7. Maybe IE needs to increment version numbers every week like Firefox. They're on 8 now? They were at 4 back in March!

I don't like too many updates like the way Chrome and Fire are doing now. One major version every year is enough.

GaMMa said,
I think IE9 is a great browser. I'm rocking it on my PC and WP7. Maybe IE needs to increment version numbers every week like Firefox. They're on 8 now? They were at 4 back in March!

Who cares about what the version number is, as long as they are making improvements then we shouldn't complain at least they aren't waiting 5 years before version bumps. Would you prefer that? Unless your in IT overlooking a huge company it shouldn't effect you, you realize that you DON'T have to upgrade to the latest version when it comes out. No one is forcing you, you could wait from like version 5 until 8 if you wanted, although its not like its a hassle to upgrade you just do an auto update and it automatically updates keeping all you settings.

I much prefer that Firefox/Chrome continue to improve their product rather that leave it for years w/o updates

iwillneverstop said,

I don't like too many updates like the way Chrome and Fire are doing now. One major version every year is enough.

Why do version numbers matter? It's not like there is some intervention in your part when upgrading. Just trying to understand the purpose of your statement.

Yep. Many MS haters tend to make jokes on IE based on outdated facts.

IE9 is not my main browser but it's awesome none-the-less!

EDIT: Btw, first! -- It's my first first ever on this site! I'm throwing a big party tomorrow night. Everyone is invited.

Before I say anything else I'll say that the Trident engine for IE10 is starting to actually look respectable BUT...

1.) IE9's support for standards is still lacking even against browsers out a year before it. Scroll to the bottom and keep in mind this site doesn't list all of the technologies websites use: http://www.caniuse.com/

2.) The user interface of IE9 sucks, the buttons are small, you can't customize the toolbars (moving the tab bar t it's normal position is NOT customization, it's called restoring normal opertations, file menu is not at the top when it IS enabled, the favirotes and commands bars are on the wrong side and not at the top, etc etc etc), it's NOT user-friendly. Safari (A Mac product for goodness sakes) is MORE customizable than IE9.

3.) Microsoft cares about selling licenses and doesn't listen to customers. Why are people sticking with XP? Because Vista and 7 are slow, can't be customized and now Microsoft is turning Windows 8 in to a toy for five year olds who think tablets are the future just because Apple released the iPad...so what, people will buy dirty toilets if Apple released them but Microsoft insists on further destroying Windows.

4.) Not releasing IE9 for XP and not releasing IE10 for Vista (and jnot releasing IE 10 Preview 3 for Windows 7 users!) is only further justification to move away from Microsoft products: it's not longer your OS, it's the we-do-what-we-want-and-don't-listen-to-our-users OS.

5.) Microsoft isn't only hostile towards customers but it's actively hostile towards consumers in general. Microsoft (and Apple) are part of the MPEG-LA patent pool (AKA patent trolls) IE9 does NOT support the HTML5 video element BY DEFAULT OUT-OF-THE-BOX which means IE9 does NOT support the HTML5 video element. License and patent encumbered codecs such as H.264 (which sounds like a virus does it not?) would require millions of dollars for Opera and Mozilla to implement and of course with any paperwork who is to say that in 20 years the MPEG-LA won't silently update their license agreement and start sending the feds to knock down the doors of small businesses because their web designers used H.264 without paying?

6.) Internet Explorer 9 still hurts the web: it'll be supported until 2020 along with Windows 7. IE9 doesn't compete with other browsers released a year earlier even the first day it was out (see point #1 above) so web designers who build standards compliant websites will be increasingly cursing IE9. The HTML5 video element will still not be supported as universally as we need. Neowin will be reminding you that Microsoft wants you to ditch that silly old Windows 7 in 2018 for Windows 9 or 10...that doesn't sound familiar at all does it? But there will be people who hold on to Windows 7.

7.) Microsoft has shown that they are not serious. They're frigin gigantic and yet ask any competent web designer about IE7 and they'll tell you that Microsoft essentially didn't make any real effort with IE7. IE8? 99.9% of the work done was CSS 2.1 related. So why not IE9 for XP? Just like there was no DirectX 10 for XP, they want to sell licenses and they're not serious about giving customers what they really need.

8.) If you don't agree with Microsoft they'll send their own employees out (who aren't intelligent enough to use proxies when using IP's that resolve to microsoft.com!) to gang-up and trash talk you because to them a customer who tells them what they have done is not what they need or want is someone to ridicule instead of learn from.

So if the non-Microsoft employees reading this ever wondered why IE is losing market share like it is you now have an in-depth understanding of why. All the comments bashing the truths that I stated will of course be made by Microsoft employees trying to fool non-Microsoft employees that I am alone in this but if you search online you'll find hordes of people upset with Microsoft. Perhaps they should start listening to the customers they've lost instead of copying silly Apple toys.

Mouettus said,
Yep. Many MS haters tend to make jokes on IE based on outdated facts.

IE9 is not my main browser but it's awesome none-the-less!

EDIT: Btw, first! -- It's my first first ever on this site! I'm throwing a big party tomorrow night. Everyone is invited.

JAB Creations does not leave much room for improvement, but I will try to add a few points.

1. The source code needs to be publically available. If I don't have the source code, I have no reason to trust it to do my banking or anything else.

2. It needs to run on an OS that I use before I can consider running it. Microsoft's efforts to kill Windows XP made me switch to Linux and I am quite happy with it. I have no intention to be one of those people that pay Microsoft for an OS every few years that is fundamentally no less obsolete than its predecessor in that the only organization that can reliably make improvements to it is Microsoft. If Microsoft wants me to use their web browser, they will need to port it to Linux.

3. The last version that had a attractive interface was IE6. If they want people to consider using their web browser when it is available for their OS, they will need to stop making it ugly by default.

Edited by Shining Arcanine, Nov 7 2011, 7:34am :

Very well stated argument, JAB Creations. I truly applaud you for it and I stand by your words. I believe the same. But you should also be aware there are a lot of Microsoft employee that are on Neowin and they are trying to spread a lot of BS. Whatever you say may be challenged. And I want to see who has the balls to argue against your very well crafted argument.

Shining Arcanine said,

JAB Creations does not leave much room for improvement, but I will try to add a few points.

1. The source code needs to be publically available. If I don't have the source code, I have no reason to trust it to do my banking or anything else.

2. It needs to run on an OS that I use before I can consider running it. Microsoft's efforts to kill Windows XP made me switch to Linux and I am quite happy with it. I have no intention to be one of those people that pay Microsoft for an OS every few years that is fundamentally no less obsolete than its predecessor in that the only organization that can reliably make improvements to it is Microsoft. If Microsoft wants me to use their web browser, they will need to port it to Linux.

3. The last version that had a attractive interface was IE6. If they want people to consider using their web browser when it is available for their OS, they will need to stop making it ugly by default.

Yeah, I'm sure Microsoft is producing bank information stealing web browsers. What a ridiculous reason to switch to Linux. lol! Open Source? seriously? Wow, and I thought I was paranoid.

Shining Arcanine said,

JAB Creations does not leave much room for improvement, but I will try to add a few points.

1. The source code needs to be publically available. If I don't have the source code, I have no reason to trust it to do my banking or anything else.

2. It needs to run on an OS that I use before I can consider running it. Microsoft's efforts to kill Windows XP made me switch to Linux and I am quite happy with it. I have no intention to be one of those people that pay Microsoft for an OS every few years that is fundamentally no less obsolete than its predecessor in that the only organization that can reliably make improvements to it is Microsoft. If Microsoft wants me to use their web browser, they will need to port it to Linux.

3. The last version that had a attractive interface was IE6. If they want people to consider using their web browser when it is available for their OS, they will need to stop making it ugly by default.

Wow you sure have some opinions to give out.

Shining Arcanine said,
JAB Creations does not leave much room for improvement, but I will try to add a few points.

Krome said,
And I want to see who has the balls to argue against your very well crafted argument.

Thanks guys...and I'm not bashing Microsoft, I just think they don't realize their new-os-every-three-years attitude won't work in the long term. I've seen an increase of Linux users to my site (and I'll be switching to Linux from XP myself eventually) and even Mac users.

If they wanted my money they'd make Windows 8 like XP, cut out the junk that I have to constantly clean out after a new install (the goofy theme, there is a Vista theme for XP if you look, the pagefile in a day of $25 4GB sticks and instead of adding junk like SuperFetch (which exists only to encourage people to buy more RAM and yes Microsoft, we ALL know about that since the RAM manufacturers screwed themselves over (OCZ doesn't make RAM anymore for a good reason) Microsoft would be better off patching bugs and security holes, adding new features and keeping the customization that Mac doesn't have and Linux requires hours in a console typing code when it should have a graphic user interface by now. Also icons with text labels to the side would make buttons easier to click (now that most people have wide screen aspect ratios) but they have even attacked Fiddler by removing the text label to intentionally make their software more difficult to use.

I just don't think Microsoft can drop the big-almighty attitude. That's why IE is losing market share and that's why Linux is slowly gaining it. Heck, Vista and 7 are so bad I've started installing Linux on people's computers because I've never had a problem with LibreOffice (formally known as OpenOffice) opening a Microsoft document when Microsoft Word refuses. I don't have to disable lots of crap. I won't be using it and what is there is more than good enough for most people by default. If Microsoft wants to give competent people an attitude and make their software more difficult to use then I'll just keep my money and spend it on my girlfriend instead and it'll be one less person I'll have to worry about in 2020 that won't upgrade from Windows 7 with IE9 who keeps complaining they can't watch an HTML5 video when I refuse to support greedy patent trolls.

JAB Creations said,

Heck, Vista and 7 are so bad I've started installing Linux on people's computers because I've never had a problem with LibreOffice (formally known as OpenOffice) opening a Microsoft document when Microsoft Word refuses. I don't have to disable lots of crap. I won't be using it and what is there is more than good enough for most people by default. If Microsoft wants to give competent people an attitude and make their software more difficult to use then I'll just keep my money and spend it on my girlfriend instead and it'll be one less person I'll have to worry about in 2020 that won't upgrade from Windows 7 with IE9 who keeps complaining they can't watch an HTML5 video when I refuse to support greedy patent trolls.

What the freaking stupid are you talking about? Unloading crap from Windows 7? How much bare bones could it get? I am UI developer and appreciate the time Microsoft has put inside Windows 7 and IE9. I actually care about my family and friends and INSTALL Windows 7 with IE9. Wow, you need to take your head out your ass, its not 2002 anymore.

JAB Creations said,
Why are people sticking with XP? Because Vista and 7 are slow, can't be customized and now Microsoft is turning Windows 8 in to a toy for five year olds who think tablets are the future just because Apple released the iPad...so what, people will buy dirty toilets if Apple released them but Microsoft insists on further destroying Windows.

This is totally rubbish, much like the rest of your pointless rant.
Vista and 7 are NOT slow at all, unless you're such a poor guy that can't afford a PC above $500. Actually, that means any PC above $500 will run Windows 7 fast.

Not customizable?

You can download MANY themes, and even customize them yourself:
http://windows.microsoft.com/e...ownloads/personalize/themes
And if that isn't enough, you can still change your whole UI:
http://www.custopack.com/

I know CustoPack Tools is a third party program, but please don't tell me XP could be customized without any third party tool as well.

Windows 8 is not a toy for five years old, it will be a unified OS available for all devices. When you're saying "toy" you're probably referring to the Immersive UI, which is only for tablets, and is NOT going to be implemented on today's desktops! I know they said they probably would, but knowing them, they won't make such a stupid mistake.
Seems like you're another a guy that thinks he knows everything about how the final product will be when he didn't even see a Beta yet.

Nexus69 said,
its not 2002 anymore.

Windows 7 is NOT barebones, there's tons of excess crap running in the background. I've been able to shave the memory down to under 250 megabytes in VirtualBox with no open programs. The copy of XP I run in VirtualBox to test IE7 uses that with IE7 running along with several tabs. Plus how can you like Windows 7 from a GUI perspective? (That's a rhetorical question.) HALF of what makes a good GUI is customization of toolbars, Windows 7 can only customize the color scheme for crying out loud. So if you think pretty colors is all that is required for a good GUI then you should consider where YOUR head is. If you think newer mean better get back to me when MTV decides to play a music video or are you unfamiliar with the early 80s MTV? (That's also a rhetorical question.) Going back to IE9 it's a shame that you bothered to reply without reading as I've made it clear in my initial post that IE9 is still dead-last in standards support even against versions of browsers released a YEAR before IE9 AND it's user interface is the LEAST customizable (if you consider the very limited things you can change customizable) and most user-unfriendly to use.