Reminder: How to dump Gmail and move to Hotmail

If you have been disturbed about what Google has been doing behind the scenes and want to move from land of Google to Microsoft, we have a handy reminder on how to do that. We know that Google was not the only one spying on you behind your back but for a company whose motto is “Don’t be Evil”, it can certainly no longer be trusted.

We are well aware that there are many email services out there with Hotmail being just one of them. If Hotmail is not your cup of tea, Yahoo and Apple also offer viable alternatives for email. 

But if you want to use Hotmail, it is relatively simple to port your email account to the service and the helpful video below gives step-by-step instructions for the process.

We know that porting your email is only a small step to defending your privacy, but Google (and the others who knowing used the exploits) monitored unauthorized browsing with nefarious intentions. If Google got caught spying here, what else could they be up too? Posted below are the full instructions from Microsoft on how to switch:

  1. Create a Hotmail account. If you don’t already have one, you need to create a Hotmail account. The best way to do this is to get a new email address either @hotmail.com or @live.com. Or, if you already have an email address you want to keep using, you can keep using it and sign up here. You don’t have to use our domain.
  2. Import your old messages from Gmail. You’ll probably want to keep your old email and contacts so we’ve made it simple to bring them in. TrueSwitch is an easy tool which will import your email and contacts and forward any new email to Hotmail for 90 days. Go to the TrueSwitch site and follow the steps there. When you sign back in to Hotmail, you’ll notice that it’s beginning to import your emails (this could take a few hours if you have a lot of emails to bring over).
  3. Connect your Gmail account. This step is optional, but if you want to make sure you receive future messages from Gmail, you can have Hotmail automatically get all new emails that are sent to your old Gmail account. These are the steps to connect your accounts:

          a. In your inbox, click Options and then More options.

          b. Click Sending/receiving email from other accounts.

          c. Click Add an email account.

          d. Provide your Gmail account details

 

A lot of content comes through your inbox such as bank and mortgage statements that Google could be cataloging about you even if you thought you were browsing privately. While Microsoft could certainly do the same as Google, Google has proven that it will intentionally exploit holes in security features to further track your Internet usage. What else the search giant is doing behind the scenes is unknown but considering they are actively exploiting these security holes does open Pandora’s box for other unethical actions. 

 

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The TrueSwitch tool is just not working.. done it 3 times and still no mail migration yet. Got about 1500 gmail emails and only seen 1 appearing in hotmail... and that 1 was from trash... sigh.

rayjin said,
The TrueSwitch tool is just not working.. done it 3 times and still no mail migration yet. Got about 1500 gmail emails and only seen 1 appearing in hotmail... and that 1 was from trash... sigh.

Try the manual way. Set up the Gmail account in Hotmail itself (enable POP for all email in Gmail). Also set up Fowarding from Gmail to the new Hotmail account to get your messages as they come in. Then, go to Hotmail's Contacts page and under the Manager button you'll see the import function for contacts. Lastly, in Goog Calendar's options you can find the private ical link to download the .ics file which you can then import into Hotmail's calendar.

After using my brothers hotmail account recently I've decided to move back to hotmail. Created a new alias as well and sucking everything in from GMail. Fed up with Google putting everything together, changing stuff every 10 minutes plus with the size of their ad network targeted advertisting is far too accurate for my liking.

Plus the Windows Live integration with Facebook and Windows Phone makes it a winner too.

meccs said,
The title should read:

Reminder: How to dump the Devil and move to Satan

I agree 100%

I think I'd have to rank Hotmail as about a pubic hair WORSE than Gmail and that's not saying much for either, as both are about 2 of the worst web based e-mails there is!!

ok trying to move from gmail to hotmail using the guide above and it keeps telling me my gmail can not be validated o.O i have used the proper passwords etc etc has google blocked trueswitch ?

(Spork) said,
ok trying to move from gmail to hotmail using the guide above and it keeps telling me my gmail can not be validated o.O i have used the proper passwords etc etc has google blocked trueswitch ?

Are you using two step validation on gmail?

I have moved all my gmail, hotmail/live/msn and yahoo emails into a single .Mac account.

Remember if the people rant selling you a service, then what they are selling is probably your info. They have to make money some way.

I'd like it if When you bought Windows you got an @windows.ms account. That would give people a reason to use Live services. It worked well for Apple and they have a lot less market share. Microsoft would then, since you bought a PC with Windows instead of just making a Live account, give you some discounts on things like Web Office, and extra SkyDrive/Email space.

Okay so aside from the fact that I was absolutely disgusted by Neowin's irresponsibility in perpetuating fear based on ignorance, I'm once again baffled that tech savvy users don't know any better. Has one of you people demonizing google actually read how google works? One? After the initial news about this latest "OMG PRIVACY!" drama it was made pretty clear how it works and why and as others have pointed out it's come out that other services do the same thing - Which doesn't make it right but they should be getting just as much heat for it.

Months after Google first announced changes to their privacy policy users still don't get that the main change there is that Google is just able to share data across the network now to attempt to tailor ads to the user more efficiently. YEARS after the first "zomg google!" drama and I still see people thinking that google reads your email. Believe me, or better yet believe the people at google who have clearly documented how it works, there isn't some guy that sits at Google and reads all your email.

It's absolutely ludicrous that tech savvy users don't get it. Since when have we ever trusted news outlets to give us reliable information about tech stuff? Because 99% of the time they get it wrong. Yet we're apparently willing to trust them on Google, and Neowin now seems to be doing a good job of spreading misinformation on the subject as well. Learn, people, read.

Amarok said,
Okay so aside from the fact that I was absolutely disgusted by Neowin's irresponsibility in perpetuating fear based on ignorance, I'm once again baffled that tech savvy users don't know any better. Has one of you people demonizing google actually read how google works? One? After the initial news about this latest "OMG PRIVACY!" drama it was made pretty clear how it works and why and as others have pointed out it's come out that other services do the same thing - Which doesn't make it right but they should be getting just as much heat for it.

Months after Google first announced changes to their privacy policy users still don't get that the main change there is that Google is just able to share data across the network now to attempt to tailor ads to the user more efficiently. YEARS after the first "zomg google!" drama and I still see people thinking that google reads your email. Believe me, or better yet believe the people at google who have clearly documented how it works, there isn't some guy that sits at Google and reads all your email.

It's absolutely ludicrous that tech savvy users don't get it. Since when have we ever trusted news outlets to give us reliable information about tech stuff? Because 99% of the time they get it wrong. Yet we're apparently willing to trust them on Google, and Neowin now seems to be doing a good job of spreading misinformation on the subject as well. Learn, people, read.

What did you really expect from most people on this site? All though, it makes for a good laugh.

Pro-Microsoft/Hotmail news:
ZOMG Why is this writer so anti Google, it's ridiculous!!

Pro-Google news:
Yeah go ahead, bash that M$ with ****ty hotmail I use GMail and never looked back!!1!1

Anti-Google news:
And you say Micro$oft never does this?? They know your age so of course they do!!!

Dump Google! Google was once a good search engine, now they steal data from people's unsecured Wireless routers with their MapCars (packet capturing) and now this exploit? DUMP GOOGLE!

MS benefits from Facebook and their Bing integration. Facebook also does not use the correct P3P cookies either. But that's OK. Let's switch to their mail service instead.

I don't think anyone is going to actually switch email services over this although they may say otherwise. Good thing I never liked Gmail and always use Hotmail as the primary service. Far more usable IMHO.

Google recently terminated my YouTube account without warning, then re-enabled it after appeals. I was relieved it wasn't my Gmail account and started thinking of using Hotmail (which I mocked people for using).

I rather stay with Yahoo! as my backup (former primary) if they'd turn on full session encryption like Gmail and Hotmail.

Good to see the scare mongers are out in force, some of you guys are so hesterical it's hilarious xD "OMGZ Google is gonna control da internetz"

LMFAO! Yeh sure I,ll go open up a new Hotmail account, after all it was MS who allowed my account to be hacked and sold off, also there fault when said account was logged into and I was charged £50 without my consent. MS customer service was spot on tho, locked out my account for a month then told I would get a refund within 60days. 180, yes 180 days later I was finally refunded.

No im happy with gmail, you can take your hotmail and get to ****!!!

I used HoTMaiL way before MS took it over. I left for good when Google effectively offered their email customers unlimited storage and MS gave me 10 mb. It is too late for MS and I wont go back. The hotmail of today exists because MS had to follow Google and others. I want to be with a company that innovates not follows.

I really resent only having 10 mb of email storage at that time and that they had no free pop or imap access.

derekaw said,
I used HoTMaiL way before MS took it over. I left for good when Google effectively offered their email customers unlimited storage and MS gave me 10 mb. It is too late for MS and I wont go back. The hotmail of today exists because MS had to follow Google and others. I want to be with a company that innovates not follows.

I really resent only having 10 mb of email storage at that time and that they had no free pop or imap access.

That's totally understandable. That said, if we were to "innovatenot follow" I assume you would look at the solution again. Hoepfully I'll see you around with a Hotmail acct in a few months

You could do that; if you want your email associated with one of the most insecure services or if you're paranoid that Google knows what websites you visited this month, then yeah sure go ahead and do that. I'll stick with Gmail.

The great thing about Gmail is that you can easily leave it. Not so with Hotmail.

In any case, if you are going to put the effort into moving mail providers might as well move it to a private server..

NyaR said,
The great thing about Gmail is that you can easily leave it. Not so with Hotmail.

In any case, if you are going to put the effort into moving mail providers might as well move it to a private server..

whats the hard part, closing your accoumt, because that's all... at least hotmail does not try to force you to send every contact an invite to gmail who actually does not use google's crap

Morden said,

whats the hard part, closing your accoumt, because that's all... at least hotmail does not try to force you to send every contact an invite to gmail who actually does not use google's crap


Hotmail even auto disable idle account that are not being used.

NyaR said,
The great thing about Gmail is that you can easily leave it. Not so with Hotmail.

Wow, because clicking 'Options' -> 'Close your account' and verifying with your password is so hard right..

hotmail got too many things when u enter it for the average user. they need to remove them or make it like the WP7. put the basics in a line and 3 dots (...) for more so advanced users can do more. i feel myself confused when i try to do something and see so many buttons there.

Happy with my Hotmail account since 1998 and wouldn't switch to anything else if I were paid per login.

Tried Yahoo (what a junk crap email), have a Gmail (forced to create one and have never once signed into that junk), and some years back when AOL was huge I had AOL mail (what a joke). I have since moved to the Live Mail desktop client and couldn't be happier with it. For those complaining of Hotmail, try the desktop client. The only issue I have with it is I wish there was a wildcard filter for blocking junk and a notification for when passwords are expiring. Give me those 2 features and it will be perfect.

This 'issue' is utterly ridiculous, it is lead by the Anti-Google fanboys (Seriously! This is common web programming practice to make workarounds for the differences between browsers to achieve the same level of functionality across browsers. When you go online, it is the web designer who controls what happens in the browser content area, not yourself, unless it is your website. )

Apart from this, the technical suggestion on how to switch is Gmail from Hotmail is the wrong solution. If you really wanted to do this, you would be far better off setting up a forward from within Gmail and set it to delete the mail after forwarding (will be in the trash for 30 days). Also you can turn off the spam filter in Gmail (by creating a filter for mail in:spam to never send to spam) so Hotmail would filter the Junk instead of Gmail, so you don't have to occasionally check Gmail when an important email hasn't come through because it was detected as spam.

Why should I change to GMail? Hotmail user since 2000 and not looking back.

Even when Hotmail was with 2MB of space I didn't care one bit about Gmail. and its GBs of space.

yeah. I read the article. :-D

I'm completely happy with my Google services AND how my private information is handled. If you think their privacy policies are so horrible, chances are you haven't even read them. As I've repeatedly said over the last few articles seemingly needing to push Hotmail (Seriously, someone is obviously getting paid for all this Hotmail hype around here).....Hotmail's boat left a long time. I didn't miss it, I chose to jump off it.

I've been a user of hotmail since 2000. It has come a long way since then, making numerous improvements to its looks and functionality. I think, however, Hotmail still can't compete with Gmail's simplistic layout and useful options offered to an everyday user.

It's not so much that Gmail is far superior to Hotmail now but when Gmail was first introduced, it was much better than the old clunky Hotmail. It offered a clean layout, was quick and offered a free pop access (most other email providers charged a premium for such service back then).

I think people just got used to using and became more comfortable with Gmail since its introduction. Hotmail and many other email providers have fallen behind and are only struggling to play the catchup. It's a vast challenge for Hotmail as most users have Gmail address as their primary email address. Without adding a really cool feature/service that can differentiate itself from Gmail, Hotmail will continue to struggle in winning back any Gmail users.

Nice reminder but i ain't switching from gmail to ick hotmail though nice try MS.Tekkerson: if you don't like what neowin posts then simple DON'T READ IT. they ain't forcing you to read anything.

I've always preferred Hotmail mainly since their junk mail filtering is much better than anything out there. Had a GMail account for years but never used it. While some may see it as cluttered, others see it as a way to keep control of their account. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

It is funny that this appears on Neowin, as Neowin is still collaborating with Vibrant Media / Vibrant Ads which was also caught spying on us behind our backs.

Nice guide. But why would I want to switch from the best email client out there to the one that has had more security holes than Swiss cheese in the last 10 years?

I've thrown around some comments here and there (see the disclosure), and see lots of issues with what I would sum up as usability ("filthy, cluttered and unfriendly alternative", "cluttered and un-friendly", "just awful" - loved that one). So I'd like to hear from those of you that went out and created a new account after December (when the last released was pushed out) and used the product for real.

And if you haven't done that, I'd challenge some folks to do so. Set up a new account, fwd your Gmail into Hotmail for the test period (your messages will still be "safe" in your Gmail account), bring in your contacts and calendars and give me your opinion based on real-world use.

GalileoMS said,
I've thrown around some comments here and there (see the disclosure), and see lots of issues with what I would sum up as usability ("filthy, cluttered and unfriendly alternative", "cluttered and un-friendly", "just awful" - loved that one). So I'd like to hear from those of you that went out and created a new account after December (when the last released was pushed out) and used the product for real.

And if you haven't done that, I'd challenge some folks to do so. Set up a new account, fwd your Gmail into Hotmail for the test period (your messages will still be "safe" in your Gmail account), bring in your contacts and calendars and give me your opinion based on real-world use.

I surprisingly find Live Mail easier to use than Gmail. I tried out Gmail's new interface, and it is pretty tricky with the way they hide nearly all the options. Live Mail doesn't look as pretty, but it functions well.

Bringing Metro to Live Mail would be great btw! I'm sure you guys are already working on that

andrewbares said,

I surprisingly find Live Mail easier to use than Gmail. I tried out Gmail's new interface, and it is pretty tricky with the way they hide nearly all the options. Live Mail doesn't look as pretty, but it functions well.

Bringing Metro to Live Mail would be great btw! I'm sure you guys are already working on that

Well, yeah that skipped my mind, gmail hides half the folders, which is annoying and something which does not happen on hotmail. But yeah, would love a metro UI option for Hotmail or the desktop client. The desktop client could get some work done on it, metro or aero. Outlook 2010 blows it out of the water in terms of UI. But then thats a paid product so not complaining.

andrewbares said,

I surprisingly find Live Mail easier to use than Gmail. I tried out Gmail's new interface, and it is pretty tricky with the way they hide nearly all the options. Live Mail doesn't look as pretty, but it functions well.

Bringing Metro to Live Mail would be great btw! I'm sure you guys are already working on that

I prefer hotmails interface too - until recently gmail was a dense mess (they've since cleaned up things a bit) - and I suspect that many people haven't used hotmail in recent times and are still judging on the past. I have both (I have a android phone so i need gmail) but hotmail (two accounts) is where most of my email goes (99%). I haven't seen anything in gmail (even now) that made me want to go the other way with it.

GalileoMS said,
I've thrown around some comments here and there (see the disclosure), and see lots of issues with what I would sum up as usability ("filthy, cluttered and unfriendly alternative", "cluttered and un-friendly", "just awful" - loved that one). So I'd like to hear from those of you that went out and created a new account after December (when the last released was pushed out) and used the product for real.

And if you haven't done that, I'd challenge some folks to do so. Set up a new account, fwd your Gmail into Hotmail for the test period (your messages will still be "safe" in your Gmail account), bring in your contacts and calendars and give me your opinion based on real-world use.


Check your private message

GalileoMS said,
I've thrown around some comments here and there (see the disclosure), and see lots of issues with what I would sum up as usability ("filthy, cluttered and unfriendly alternative", "cluttered and un-friendly", "just awful" - loved that one). So I'd like to hear from those of you that went out and created a new account after December (when the last released was pushed out) and used the product for real.

And if you haven't done that, I'd challenge some folks to do so. Set up a new account, fwd your Gmail into Hotmail for the test period (your messages will still be "safe" in your Gmail account), bring in your contacts and calendars and give me your opinion based on real-world use.

I use both throughout the day, and my earlier points are from that usage.

The only thing that I do not like in Gmail was mentioned by someone else: in their recent UI change, they cover up part of their label list with the messenger portion. I care much more about the list than I do the in-email chat functionality. It adjusts if you put your mouse over the list, and that's just weird (fortunately you can adjust it down).

I should add that, as a Windows Phone user, there is nothing preventing me from shifting to Hotmail beyond the perceived speed and the differences in UI/usability as I noted in my longer post above.

psreloaded said,

Well, yeah that skipped my mind, gmail hides half the folders, which is annoying and something which does not happen on hotmail. But yeah, would love a metro UI option for Hotmail or the desktop client. The desktop client could get some work done on it, metro or aero. Outlook 2010 blows it out of the water in terms of UI. But then thats a paid product so not complaining.

Any thoughts on the free Windows Live Mail desktop client?

I have nothing to hide. I'm fine with the nice clean look of Google services. Why does hotmail fell chunky. Filled with blocks and ****?

Great and unbiased article! Why are you passing this tripe as news? If you want to do an editorial fine, but this is ridiculous.

TheSpiderX said,
Great and unbiased article! Why are you passing this tripe as news? If you want to do an editorial fine, but this is ridiculous.

Exactly. Either this needs to be tagged as "Editorial" or it needs to be removed as would be done to any forum post w/o proper tags.

Move your email to Microsoft (Hotmail) and they can then track you instead of Google.

Hotmail is a filthy, cluttered and unfriendly alternative. I'll stick with Gmail - but thanks for the reminder.

Nucleotide said,
Move your email to Microsoft (Hotmail) and they can then track you instead of Google.

Hotmail is a filthy, cluttered and unfriendly alternative. I'll stick with Gmail - but thanks for the reminder.


Why is everyone assuming Microsoft is tracking its Hotmail users?
Seriously? Can you show proof?

You see news about Google spying on its users every day.. Now show me news about Microsoft doing that?
At least Microsoft's employees can't even read any of your information...

Cøi said,

Why is everyone assuming Microsoft is tracking its Hotmail users?
Seriously? Can you show proof?

You see news about Google spying on its users every day.. Now show me news about Microsoft doing that?
At least Microsoft's employees can't even read any of your information...


http://advertising.microsoft.com/uk/profile-targeting
http://advertising.microsoft.com/uk/behavioural-targeting
http://advertising.microsoft.c.../commercial-email-targeting

Do you think they look into a crystal ball to see your age, what games you play on XBL, searches made on Bing, etc? They track you.


This is FAR from what Google is doing.. I'm still waiting for proof that Microsoft is reading your mails and gets more than half of your information from outside your Live Account / information you give to them on purpose.

PotatoJ said,

Do you think they look into a crystal ball to see your age, what games you play on XBL, searches made on Bing, etc? They track you.

No, they can see my age thanks to the birth date I inserted in my Live Account.

Talking about 'games I play on XBL', that's like saying 'IE is bad because it saves your browsing history' or 'Windows Live Accounts are bad because it saves my emails'. Point is, that has nothing to do with spying or tracking, it's just saving information about your history that could be useful to you.

Same with Bing searches, and Google does a LOT more than just saving your search history...

Cøi said,
Point is, that has nothing to do with spying or tracking,

You think? http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/node/6715

Cøi said,

it's just saving information about your history that could be useful to you.

I think you meant "useful to Microsoft in order to increase the value of their Media Network through more accurately targeted ads"

But that's not tracking, right?

Are you aware of Microsoft unifying all the information collected through their various services exactly the same way Google has been critized for, don't you?

ichi said,

I think you meant "useful to Microsoft in order to increase the value of their Media Network through more accurately targeted ads"

Dang, I never knew IE saved my browsing history on my PC in order to get better advertisements from Microsoft.

ichi said,

Are you aware of Microsoft unifying all the information collected through their various services exactly the same way Google has been critized for, don't you?

No.

Cøi said,

This is FAR from what Google is doing.. I'm still waiting for proof that Microsoft is reading your mails and gets more than half of your information from outside your Live Account / information you give to them on purpose.

Same thing. You can't dispute that. Do you consider your searches private?

It's naive to think that any large corporation won't scan your data for relevant adverting. Yahoo! has been criticized for the same thing. MS scans your personal searches!

Edited by yekGLzhQ4Qju1FtAVcC4, Feb 21 2012, 5:37pm :

Cøi said,

Dang, I never knew IE saved my browsing history on my PC in order to get better advertisements from Microsoft.

Did you bother reading the link about Microsoft's traking cookies?


Cøi said,
No.

For your reading pleasure: http://privacy.microsoft.com/e.../fullnotice.mspx#collection

In order to offer you a more consistent and personalized experience in your interactions with Microsoft, information collected through one Microsoft service may be combined with information obtained through other Microsoft services.

PotatoJ said,

Same thing. You can't dispute that. Do you consider your searches private?

It's naive to think that any large corporation won't scan your data for relevant adverting. Yahoo! has been criticized for the same thing. MS scans your personal searches!

My point was that Google does far worse than Microsoft, how many times do I have to repeat this?

Whatever Microsoft is doing and even if Microsoft keeps your Bing searches, so you could get a history, Google does this as well and a lot more.
Now they even want you to enter your credit card number.

primexx said,
hotmail is still no match for gmail, it's cluttered and un-friendly.

Doesnt have the good mail filtering features n stuff to. Every company spies on you, not sure why people think MS is any safer. If its on the internet, its theirs.

primexx said,
hotmail is still no match for gmail, it's cluttered and un-friendly.

Like I said above, what would need to change for it to become a "match"? Obviously UI goes a lot to taste. But would love to hear your thoughts.

GalileoMS said,

Like I said above, what would need to change for it to become a "match"? Obviously UI goes a lot to taste. But would love to hear your thoughts.


I think the main things that make it cluttered are:
- The ads on the right. Extremely annoying. Gmail ads are subtle and can be disabled.
- There are too many "lines", as in the lines that define different sections of the UI. Many aren't really needed, as there are other ways to define areas.
- Too many words, and all of the action buttons are text only with the only rollover feedback being a line under them, or in the case of menus, nothing at all.

Another really annoying and unfriendly part is requiring (on occasion) users to enter a captcha code to send an e-mail. When this happens, a small yellow bar shows at the top that you are required to click on. For many 'average' users, they sometimes don't notice the yellow bar at all and even if they do notice it, they don't realize they actually need to click on the link in that bar in order to proceed to enter the captcha code. Then, when they do get to the captcha code, it is sometimes so complex that they have to enter it 10 times to get it right (or they just give up). I get so many calls about this problem.

Mikeyx11 said,

I think the main things that make it cluttered are:
- The ads on the right. Extremely annoying. Gmail ads are subtle and can be disabled.
- There are too many "lines", as in the lines that define different sections of the UI. Many aren't really needed, as there are other ways to define areas.
- Too many words, and all of the action buttons are text only with the only rollover feedback being a line under them, or in the case of menus, nothing at all.

Another really annoying and unfriendly part is requiring (on occasion) users to enter a captcha code to send an e-mail. When this happens, a small yellow bar shows at the top that you are required to click on. For many 'average' users, they sometimes don't notice the yellow bar at all and even if they do notice it, they don't realize they actually need to click on the link in that bar in order to proceed to enter the captcha code. Then, when they do get to the captcha code, it is sometimes so complex that they have to enter it 10 times to get it right (or they just give up). I get so many calls about this problem.

Great reply, really appreciate it. This is the kind of info we can work with.

On the ads, that's pretty spot on. We're trying some different things in that space (there's an article on Neowin about this). And obviously I would assume anyone here would know how to avoid the ads. But it's a fair point.

As to the UI, that's a tough call. Hotmail is the world's biggest free email service in terms of user base. That means we get all kinds of folks on the service. If you get someone less tech savvy to look at Hotmail versus Gmail today, they might have an easier time with Hotmail precisely b/c of the words. That said, for those that like a cleaner UI based on contextual menus and icons, I can see the point. A change in UI is not easy though, just look at Gmail and FB in recent times.

I don't actually use Hotmail much myself, my input is from working with primarily non-tech savvy users who do. Cluttered user interfaces can confuse and disorient people, as can overly simple ones. Having buttons hidden in menus or only showing depending on the context can certainly be difficult, as people may spend 10 frustrating minutes trying to find a button that is no longer readily visible, but with other e-mail providers the 'words' are in buttons now rather than on their own. This makes them more defined, expands the visible "click space?" and separates them from the surrounding text. This also allows better rollover feedback. If the buttons are defined themselves, they also don't need so many lines separating them from the e-mail content, which creates a softer look.

UI changes aren't easy but they've been done many times with all services, including Hotmail. One option is to (where possible) bring things in gradually rather than all at once, and provide some sort of message on what's changed and why, similar to how Google and Facebook have been doing recently with their UI changes. I understand it's not practical to always do that, but I think gradual UI evolution can be less painful.

Some Metro influence might help to make it look simpler but still be as easy to find things.

GalileoMS said,

Like I said above, what would need to change for it to become a "match"? Obviously UI goes a lot to taste. But would love to hear your thoughts.

This is the only thing that discourages me from using it... The UI. Right now for example, I tried to find the option when I connect to be directly at the 'inbox'. I can't find it... Letters-letters and again a whole page with just letters for countless options which mostly I don't need... I can't even memorize the basics. When I join in Gmail on the other hand, everything is so clean... I know everything where it is, and no, not because I use Gmail more time than Live. Please, consider making a simpler, cleaner UI. Would be great if I could chose a 'light Live' which it will be showing me only things related to Mail with clean options that actually matter...

Generally, there's 'something' that discourages me... You should be able to know what exactly is that... Open 2 browser windows with both mails after the login, and shouldn't be so difficult to solve the puzzle. I'm not expert to do it precisely. The only thing I can assure you, is that it's not MS or the term 'Hotmail' or anything foolish. I'm really trying to make it my default email. Many guys here mentioning the words 'cluttered and unfriendly' which I think are two strong clues... But it seems so long you don't give attention to...

Edited by PC EliTiST, Feb 21 2012, 9:06am :

Beyond Godlike said,

Every company spies on you, not sure why people think MS is any safer. If its on the internet, its theirs.

See my comment below, I think it's pretty much impossible for Microsoft to spy on you. (your emails, specifically)

primexx said,
hotmail is still no match for gmail, it's cluttered and un-friendly.

And seriously? I never thought it was possible for anyone to call the GMail interface better than Hotmail's.. lmao

Cøi said,

And seriously? I never thought it was possible for anyone to call the GMail interface better than Hotmail's.. lmao

Well if you haven't used Hotmail since Gmail launched, perhaps...

PC EliTiST said,

This is the only thing that discourages me from using it... The UI. Right now for example, I tried to find the option when I connect to be directly at the 'inbox'. I can't find it... Letters-letters and again a whole page with just letters for countless options which mostly I don't need... I can't even memorize the basics. When I join in Gmail on the other hand, everything is so clean... I know everything where it is, and no, not because I use Gmail more time than Live. Please, consider making a simpler, cleaner UI. Would be great if I could chose a 'light Live' which it will be showing me only things related to Mail with clean options that actually matter...

Generally, there's 'something' that discourages me... You should be able to know what exactly is that... Open 2 browser windows with both mails after the login, and shouldn't be so difficult to solve the puzzle. I'm not expert to do it precisely. The only thing I can assure you, is that it's not MS or the term 'Hotmail' or anything foolish. I'm really trying to make it my default email. Many guys here mentioning the words 'cluttered and unfriendly' which I think are two strong clues... But it seems so long you don't give attention to...

Great reply, thanks for the feedback.

I've been wanting to switch FROM hotmail to gmail for a long time My biggest problem is that everyone knows my hotmail and all my accounts are linked to it since I created it in 1997....

The only problem I have with Hotmail is the lack of proper protocol to use it with a native email client on my computer. I wish it would support exchange or imap

Rudy said,
I've been wanting to switch FROM hotmail to gmail for a long time My biggest problem is that everyone knows my hotmail and all my accounts are linked to it since I created it in 1997....

The only problem I have with Hotmail is the lack of proper protocol to use it with a native email client on my computer. I wish it would support exchange or imap

Get Gmail to fetch emails from your old account... (see "Check mail using POP3" - found in GMail settings along with guides if you don't know how)... that way all your old email will come into your new account and then you can do what you wish with it. Meaning you don't need to even bother telling anyone you have a new email... you can use either address.

Rudy said,
I've been wanting to switch FROM hotmail to gmail for a long time My biggest problem is that everyone knows my hotmail and all my accounts are linked to it since I created it in 1997....

The only problem I have with Hotmail is the lack of proper protocol to use it with a native email client on my computer. I wish it would support exchange or imap

What OS do you use?

lt8480 said,

Get Gmail to fetch emails from your old account... (see "Check mail using POP3" - found in GMail settings along with guides if you don't know how)... that way all your old email will come into your new account and then you can do what you wish with it. Meaning you don't need to even bother telling anyone you have a new email... you can use either address.

Fetching is probably done on a set interval, I'm really picky about receiving emails on time (yes I know, I'm being difficult). I did try to setup my iCloud account to work like that (I had my hotmail forward my emails to my iCloud), in the end it didn't work out

Okay seriously now what is this? At first it was kind of cute when an "article" popped up on Neowin that was slanted against Google or for Apple but this is getting ridiculous. First and foremost there was nothing "evil" about what happened with Google and Safari users. The whole situation has been well documented in other much less slanted articles over the last 2 days. This is supposed to be a tech site, which implies intelligence, and yet the completely uninformed articles about Google's privacy policies just keep rolling in.

Pretty much the only Google services that I use are search and gmail and the reason I use those is quite frankly they're the best. When privacy concerns arose I actually went out and read about how it all works and realized that it's nothing to worry about. Rather than pieces that completely slam google based on ignorance of the subject why not do a useful article about how data is actually collected and what it's actually used for? Google is fairly transparent in that regard. Because articles like this one here are fanboyism and hatred thinly disguised as an article.

It amazes me that so many people are so ignorant to how it all actually works. End users ignoring the vast amounts of documentation that google even provides so you understand your rights and your privacy is something that I understand ... but again Neowin is supposed to be a tech site and the people posting the articles are supposed to be intelligent so really I can't excuse blindly bashing a company based on ignorance.

Yeah, there's absolutely nothing wrong with google using attack code to circumvent privacy setting and spy on you

seriously...

I fully agree. I'm a Microsoft fan, but this hate against Google is ridiculous and uncalled for, and purely childish/fanboyish/whatever.

Grow up Neowin.

HawkMan said,
Yeah, there's absolutely nothing wrong with google using attack code to circumvent privacy setting and spy on you

seriously...

Care to post and example or link to this "attack code"? Otherwise you're talking out your ass.

Tweaky Nippleton said,

Care to post and example or link to this "attack code"? Otherwise you're talking out your ass.

That's what code that circuents protection that is supposed to stop what the payload is trying to do is called. The act the payload is "only" tracking cookies doesn't make it any less attack code.

And the code is I any news article about the original news item on tis.

HawkMan said,

That's what code that circuents protection that is supposed to stop what the payload is trying to do is called. The act the payload is "only" tracking cookies doesn't make it any less attack code.

And the code is I any news article about the original news item on tis.

Source for this "attack code" or your full of crap. "It's in any article" is a copout. I've read the articles. There's no "attack code" in any of them. There's no "attack" at play in this story.

andrewbares said,
I fully agree. I'm a Microsoft fan, but this hate against Google is ridiculous and uncalled for, and purely childish/fanboyish/whatever.

Grow up Neowin.


Why grow up, Google has a dangerous ammount of power currently and more and more leaks out on how they actively and secretly try to monitor and track each and every one of us. And if you got nothing to hide as most bring up as arguments... please post your e-banking details. Everyone has their privacy limits and if they're not equal to yours, its okay for companies like Google to track your every move?

What i find most funny is, when Vista came out, MS was tracking the stuff you installed and ran most, what caused problems, what they where and have been using for the development of Windows 7, but everyone was screaming murder and burn MS!! etc for 'tracking their users'. They did it to improve the OS we all love and cherish. Google does a 100 times worse and its all a-okay? ....really?

andrewbares said,
I fully agree. I'm a Microsoft fan, but this hate against Google is ridiculous and uncalled for, and purely childish/fanboyish/whatever.

Grow up Neowin.


I haven't really noticed any 'hate' against Google in these articles, but if you call this hate you should take a look at what's being said against Microsoft.
Even in the comments, people really think it's necessary to brag about their information being spied on by Google.

HawkMan said,

That's what code that circuents protection that is supposed to stop what the payload is trying to do is called. The act the payload is "only" tracking cookies doesn't make it any less attack code.

And the code is I any news article about the original news item on tis.

Interestingly enough, that P3P "attack code" of yours is also used by Microsoft, and encouraged in their support site to work around IE problems.

http://www.cylab.cmu.edu/files...h_reports/CMUCyLab10014.pdf

ichi said,

Interestingly enough, that P3P "attack code" of yours is also used by Microsoft, and encouraged in their support site to work around IE problems.

http://www.cylab.cmu.edu/files...h_reports/CMUCyLab10014.pdf

Well actually I was talking about the Safari code which is a straight out attack code to circumvent protection and insert cookies that are supposed to be blocked. by any definition is attack code.


If something that defeats protection by sneaking around and using holes in the protection isn't attack code I don't know what is. But it is the very definition of attack code.

As for the P3P stuff, the P3P standard itself reccomends to use this workaround, for BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY. not to defeat the very purpose of P3P like google are doing. that means they are abusing the standard and breaking the purpose of it, and not following a security standard for their own malicious purposes.

HawkMan said,

As for the P3P stuff, the P3P standard itself reccomends to use this workaround, for BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY. not to defeat the very purpose of P3P like google are doing. that means they are abusing the standard and breaking the purpose of it, and not following a security standard for their own malicious purposes.

Backwards compatibility with what? The whole single point of using incorrect CP tokens is bypassing the P3P mechanism in IE entirely.

P3P is obsolete, the "like" and "+1" functionality wasn't yet considered back when the work on P3P was droped. The only way to implement new functionalities and get them to work on P3P is bypassing it with invalid or misguiding CP tokens, which is what most sites are doing and what MS suggest on their support site.

Had work on P3P continued we might have support for this kind of feature and all this would be a non issue, but back in 2007 the P3P specification was already almost twice as long as Alice in Wonderland, and it wasn't even feature complete. No wonder that almost every browser decided to not implement it.

I don't know about you, but I prefer seeing Google, Facebook and the likes getting their stuff working by placing a syntactically incorrect CP string that explains the issue rather than placing misguiding CP tokens that lie about the cookie usage.

Not so long ago Facebook achieved the "like" functionality by placing one single incorrect CP token: HONK.
Microsoft themselves use incorrect tokens in the CP of their P3P policies on several of their domains, but since they are just meaningless tokens there's no explanation of why they are in there.

HawkMan said,
Yeah, there's absolutely nothing wrong with google using attack code to circumvent privacy setting and spy on you

seriously...

Define "attack" code.. Hawkman, seriously, I don't hate you, but you really need to stop commenting on crap you don't understand.

andrewbares said,
I fully agree. I'm a Microsoft fan, but this hate against Google is ridiculous and uncalled for, and purely childish/fanboyish/whatever.

Grow up Neowin.

It is 2 other major tech companies riling up their fans and using their media PR shills to spread hate about Google. Almost every single time crap like this comes out against Google, it is proven 3 days later it was nonsense and FUD. But the damage is done. Majority of people don't have enough knowledge, don't process information that shows why initial articles and attacks were not justified but continues quoting how Google is evil.

This is all the game and since people are getting gullable, more then ever influenced by marketing messages and these PR articles, this is how perception is created.

Same is happening with Android, with Flash and Google.

There are things to criticize Google for, but these things are just so stupid and can only be believed and drummed up by those who really have no understanding about technology or critical thinking. What people want to hear they will process it because it suits their point.

Microsoft and Apple know this. Apple is master manipulator with PR and marketing. That's the major force behind them but Microsoft has a far reach as well.

In simple terms, things are blown out of the proportion and things are sidetracked from the real issues like these things should have been fixed in browsers for a while if security was such an issue but haven't.

Google didn't hack your browser, they used the capabilities of a browser just like anyone else could. So if you want to get mad, I suggest looking at Apple and Microsoft for not doing things different way in their browser.

Xypro said,
Happy With hotmail since 05, but great reminder, but also biased towards MS

Glad to hear you're a happy user, but it's not too fair on Brad to accuse him of bias. If he were to post on moving onto a different provider would he not be biased towards that provider as well????

Yeah.. not that I have any need for this because Hotmail is just awful.

And why would anyone be disturbed? Does anyone really think that Microsoft doesn't do the exactly the same things?

People are so naive. Google isn't doing anything others are not doing. Only their service are kick ass.

Boz said,
Yeah.. not that I have any need for this because Hotmail is just awful.

And why would anyone be disturbed? Does anyone really think that Microsoft doesn't do the exactly the same things?
"not that I have any need for this because Hotmail is just awful."
How?
People are so naive. Google isn't doing anything others are not doing. Only their service are kick ass.

Boz said,
Yeah.. not that I have any need for this because Hotmail is just awful.

And why would anyone be disturbed? Does anyone really think that Microsoft doesn't do the exactly the same things?

People are so naive. Google isn't doing anything others are not doing. Only their service are kick ass.

Would love to hear what's so awful about it. Maybe we can do something to change your mind.

Boz said,
Yeah.. not that I have any need for this because Hotmail is just awful.

And why would anyone be disturbed? Does anyone really think that Microsoft doesn't do the exactly the same things?

People are so naive. Google isn't doing anything others are not doing. Only their service are kick ass.

SOme explanation please... as to why its awful, cuz personally I love it.

GalileoMS said,

Would love to hear what's so awful about it. Maybe we can do something to change your mind.

Hey Galileo, its a good thing that ur team is trying to actively make the service better and interacting with us, the users actively. Much appreciated.

Boz said,
Yeah.. not that I have any need for this because Hotmail is just awful.

And why would anyone be disturbed? Does anyone really think that Microsoft doesn't do the exactly the same things?

People are so naive. Google isn't doing anything others are not doing. Only their service are kick ass.

Look a kid who hasn't logged into Live Mail in quite some time. I prefer it to gmail's interface now.

Boz has an Android fetish, thus it's obvious he would stand by Google. Expected response is expected, not sure why anyone would even try arguing with him given his reputation.

psreloaded said,

Hey Galileo, its a good thing that ur team is trying to actively make the service better and interacting with us, the users actively. Much appreciated.

Sure thing. We're trying hard and there are good things coming down the road thanks to all the feedack you guys give us.

_Heracles said,
I haven't uses g-mail for anything in a long time.

All of my gmail accounts forward to my Live Domains account.

Rudie32 said,
My friends would laugh at me if i got a hotmail account. lmao! Only thing worse is an excite.com account.

You'll reach an age where you'll make decisions for yourself, believe me.

Rudie32 said,
My friends would laugh at me if i got a hotmail account. lmao! Only thing worse is an excite.com account.

Galileo from the Hotmail team here. In addition to a @live domain you can use your own personal domain as well. So if your issue is with your friends seeing the @hotmail domain, there are alternatives.

GalileoMS said,

Galileo from the Hotmail team here. In addition to a @live domain you can use your own personal domain as well. So if your issue is with your friends seeing the @hotmail domain, there are alternatives.

I have had my personal domain running on top of hotmail for quite some time. Live Domains is probably the sexiest stealth product from MS. I'd love it if they advertised it more.

Just Bing/Google "Live Domains." You get full Office 365 services for free for personal use. No SLA of course.

GalileoMS said,

Galileo from the Hotmail team here. In addition to a @live domain you can use your own personal domain as well. So if your issue is with your friends seeing the @hotmail domain, there are alternatives.

Is there a way to change an existing @hotmail to @live?

MrHumpty said,
I have had my personal domain running on top of hotmail for quite some time. Live Domains is probably the sexiest stealth product from MS. I'd love it if they advertised it more.

care to share a URL so we can all get access to this "live domainn" sevice with free office 365?

Just Bing/Google "Live Domains." You get full Office 365 services for free for personal use. No SLA of course.

Jebadiah said,
No

That's correct. You can add up to 5 aliases to your account, which are fully different @hotmail or @live addresses tied to your account. Note, these aliases are not Windows Live ID's, so you can't log in to them.

I still think they would get 100x more users if they killed the ads (in fact start a campain to ridicule google ads on mail) AND stop calling it hotmail. give it a name that is not a 90s legacy.

neonspark said,
I still think they would get 100x more users if they killed the ads (in fact start a campain to ridicule google ads on mail) AND stop calling it hotmail. give it a name that is not a 90s legacy.

I would love Bing Mail.

neonspark said,
I still think they would get 100x more users if they killed the ads (in fact start a campain to ridicule google ads on mail) AND stop calling it hotmail. give it a name that is not a 90s legacy.

Like "live mail"

Anyway, it is hard not to call it Hotmail when the addresses end in ... hotmail.

Shiranui said,

Like "live mail"

Anyway, it is hard not to call it Hotmail when the addresses end in ... hotmail.


its actually called Live mail nowadays. The main login portal is mail.live.com. They kept it Hotmail BECAUSE of the legacy it has i still encounter people who never heard of gmail and ask if its some kinda hotmail.

neonspark said,
I still think they would get 100x more users if they killed the ads (in fact start a campain to ridicule google ads on mail) AND stop calling it hotmail. give it a name that is not a 90s legacy.
For starters, they already have an ad campaign attacking Gmail's scanning of emails for ad generation. However, without ads, then it wouldn't pay for itself. I don't even really notice Live ads, nor do I really notice Gmail ads; as long as it's a computer reading (and only reading rather than also comprehending/correlating) my email, then I'm fine with that to get the experience on Gmail compared to all other services.

Hotmail would get a lot more users if they redesigned their UI and sped up their interface akin to Gmail. Hotmail is simply nowhere near as usable as Gmail.

Gmail is incredibly fast, while Hotmail is just now starting to catch up. There are also little things that are very annoying, like how I have my Hotmail/Live account set to "go to my Inbox," yet it still goes to the Hotmail highlights page that I do not ever use.

As there is a Hotmail developer on here:

1. Hotmail definitely feels slower. Gmail's UI layer has been rewritten more recently, and Hotmail did get a significant speed boost around two years ago. Nothing like what Skydrive saw semi-recently though, which Hotmail would benefit from.

2. Hotmail does not [easily] show the number of unread emails in the title like Gmail. It also irrelevantly displays "Hotmail -" as the first part in the page title, when I already know that based on the icon and the email address that is cut off in the rest of my tab's title.

3. There is way too much going on in terms of links above the email list (in the inbox). I always have to look around for the Delete link/button.

4. Quick Views are very cool, and they represent a good first step toward #5.

5. Lack of label-like grouping. This is probably the number one thing that will keep me at Gmail. Honestly, I think Microsoft could improve on the idea and the Hotmail team could likely drive some useful changes to Outlook as a result. After all, it's just a fast filter/labeling system that allows the same email to co-exist in multiple bins (key).

6. Hotmail themes really do not compare to the simple Gmail themes. It's--almost amusingly--the reverse situation from Bing.com to Google.com. I always feel like I am reading my email from the 90s given the theme options.

7. The spam filter seems to be catching up. I cannot think of the last spam email that I got now that I have properly moved my personal email directly into the Inbox (rather than being filtered into its own group/folder that I had to click on to read). At least in terms of spam that I did not sign up for (... Best Buy and Barnes and Noble).

I have an even longer list of the small features that I sent to someone debating the switch a long time ago. I have nothing personally against Hotmail, particularly because you can now use the live.com addresses, but it's really not comparable to Gmail in terms of speed, features or usability. When Hotmail undoubtedly switches to Metro, then I think it will probably get a lot of the under-the-hood tweaks that will bring it up to speed.

Pickypg, I'll delete some of the reply b/c there's a lot of stuff and I'll hit on all the points possible.

"...like how I have my Hotmail/Live account set to "Go to my Inbox" yet it still goes to the Hotmail highlights page that I do not ever use."
That shouldn't happen. If you want to debug that let me know.

"1. Hotmail definitely feels slower."
There are obviously a number of factors that could be involved, above all where you are located geographically. We did push out a lot of speed updates late last year. Have you logged in since then?

"2. Hotmail does not [easily] show the number of unread emails in the title like Gmail. It also irrelevantly displays "Hotmail" as the first part in the page title, when I already know that based on the icon and the email address that is cut off in the rest of my tab's title."
A lot of this goes to preference and that's perfectly fine (although I see "Gmail" as well in my tabs). We do show unread messages clearly identified by the bold fonts in your folders and categories in Quick Views. As to the title, again, it's your preference and that's fine. I'm assuming this bothers you b/c when you're reading other tabs you can quickly glance over to the Gmail tab and see if any messages came in. I'd argue that it's less relevant than the desktop notifications in Gmail+Chrome and our taskbar notifications in Hotmail+IE9.

"3. There is way too much going on in terms of links above the email list (in the inbox). I always have to look around for the Delete link/button."
Lots of folks feel that way. I would add that we do have Instant Actions which allow you to delete (and a whole bunch more) from icons that overlay on the message line in your inbox.

"5. Lack of label-like grouping."
Added in December, we call them categories and you'll see the filters under quick views. These are customizable to your liking.

"7. The spam filter seems to be catching up."
Yep, recent blog post on that (search for the Inside Windows Live blog).

As to your closing point, I understand completely. But let me ask you this, if you were to recommend email services to someone, would you recommend Hotmail in addition to (vour stated preference) Gmail? Not saying you'd recommend it over Gmail, but would be the 2nd best alternative in your opinion?

Don't you think this is a little extreme and that a lot of the content written in the article is just pure speculation (in relation to the last paragraph). Don't forget that even if you did move your email account to 'x' Google will probably still store your data for a while as I'm sure most companies do after you delete/remove your account from their services.

If i said 72 hrs ago that Google exploit security holes to track users against their will...would you have thought that was crazy too?

Point is, Google showed that they have low ethical standards when it comes to tracking users and will do whatever it takes to get more information about you in to their servers.

KitCh said,
Don't you think this is a little extreme and that a lot of the content written in the article is just pure speculation (in relation to the last paragraph). Don't forget that even if you did move your email account to 'x' Google will probably still store your data for a while as I'm sure most companies do after you delete/remove your account from their services.

If they would store the data, at least it's data you currently have and not new data you have coming in. Not a good thing either way, but stopping anyone from gaining access to new information is a move in the right direction.

bdsams said,
If i said 72 hrs ago that Google exploit security holes to track users against their will...would you have thought that was crazy too?

Point is, Google showed that they have low ethical standards when it comes to tracking users and will do whatever it takes to get more information about you in to their servers.

You're a Mac user, aren't ya?

Adamodeus said,

You're a Mac user, aren't ya?

Troll much? Safari is available on other platforms too. And if you have been following anything, you would know that this is not a browser issue or OS issue.

bdsams said,
If i said 72 hrs ago that Google exploit security holes to track users against their will...would you have thought that was crazy too?

Point is, Google showed that they have low ethical standards when it comes to tracking users and will do whatever it takes to get more information about you in to their servers.

Damn right, they found a privacy hole in Safari and chose to exploit it to their own ends rather than actually tell anyone about it.

smooth_criminal1990 said,

Damn right, they found a privacy hole in Safari and chose to exploit it to their own ends rather than actually tell anyone about it.

Let's forget then that it was Google who fixed the bug in webkit months ago, that would make the isse way less clear cut to be fun to argue about.

bdsams said,
If i said 72 hrs ago that Google exploit security holes to track users against their will...would you have thought that was crazy too?

Point is, Google showed that they have low ethical standards when it comes to tracking users and will do whatever it takes to get more information about you in to their servers.

If I said 72 hours ago that Microsoft was going to accuse Google of malpractice for implementing P3P workarounds that MS themselves use and that they encourage in their support site, you'd have thought I was crazy too.

Read this report: http://www.cylab.cmu.edu/files...h_reports/CMUCyLab10014.pdf

bdsams said,
If i said 72 hrs ago that Google exploit security holes to track users against their will...would you have thought that was crazy too?

Point is, Google showed that they have low ethical standards when it comes to tracking users and will do whatever it takes to get more information about you in to their servers.

Unfortunately, you were not well informed. Please do some research beforehand.

Thanks for reminding everyone again... March is quickly approaching, and people need to act fast if they care (which sadly I'm guessing most don't... or are too stupid to even realize the evil that is Google even when they have all those warning notices on their sites saying the change is happening).

j2006 said,
Thanks for reminding everyone again... March is quickly approaching, and people need to act fast if they care (which sadly I'm guessing most don't... or are too stupid to even realize the evil that is Google even when they have all those warning notices on their sites saying the change is happening).

They are sharing data across sites they own. Not with others. It makes for a better, more cohesive experience. If they gather data from each individually, that's OK but not sharing?. Where did my tinfoil hat go?

Not to mention that MS shares all their data across Live services.

farmeunit said,

They are sharing data across sites they own. Not with others. It makes for a better, more cohesive experience. If they gather data from each individually, that's OK but not sharing?. Where did my tinfoil hat go?

Not to mention that MS shares all their data across Live services.


MS's bussiness model isnt sharing your personal data with 3rd party's/governments etc.
Google's is.

Shadowzz said,

MS's bussiness model isnt sharing your personal data with 3rd party's/governments etc.
Google's is.

Google's business is an ad network, exactly the same as the Microsoft Media Network.

Traking, profiling and delivering targeted ads is an integral part of both.

ibsan said,
Thanks for the reminder...

Expect nothing less when Microsoft pays off its news puppets. Regardless, moving to Hotmail is a better idea than staying with Google who doesn't value your privacy.

I'm actually looking for going the other way around. I have had my Hotmail for years but I like Gmail more and more by the day.

Ently said,
I'm actually looking for going the other way around. I have had my Hotmail for years but I like Gmail more and more by the day.

good decision

Jebadiah said,

Expect nothing less when Microsoft pays off its news puppets. Regardless, moving to Hotmail is a better idea than staying with Google who doesn't value your privacy.

Assuming Microsoft paid Neowin to write this article is silly.

Callum said,

Assuming Microsoft paid Neowin to write this article is silly.

Not to say that they did, but why would it be silly?

ichi said,
Not to say that they did, but why would it be silly?

Such an assumption is based on absolutely nothing. It's foolish to believe something without proof, and it's even more foolish to state something has happened when nothing at all indicates it has happened. People should only believe things have actually happened when there is proof it did happen; anything else could possibly be dangerous. E.g. People believing something happened even though there's no proof it did is exactly why the world contains many religious people who oppress others. (That's just one example, to point out how it is silly).

Callum said,
Such an assumption is based on absolutely nothing.

But such is the definition of an assumption, ie. take for granted without proof.

Getting paid for pushing corporate interests on forums and online communities is not uncommon. There's a marketing industry paying people to do exactly that, and Microsoft was a known AEG customer (does that company still exist, btw?) so those practices aren't exactly alien to them, and Neowin is big enough to not fly under the radar of professional shills.

Stating it as a fact is indeed unwarranted, but being suspicious is quite reasonable, IMO.

ichi said,

But such is the definition of an assumption, ie. take for granted without proof.
[. . .]
Stating it as a fact is indeed unwarranted, but being suspicious is quite reasonable, IMO.

That was exactly my point He implied it was definite, rather than just a suspicion. I wouldn't have taken issue with it otherwise.

Callum said,

Such an assumption is based on absolutely nothing. It's foolish to believe something without proof, and it's even more foolish to state something has happened when nothing at all indicates it has happened. People should only believe things have actually happened when there is proof it did happen; anything else could possibly be dangerous. E.g. People believing something happened even though there's no proof it did is exactly why the world contains many religious people who oppress others. (That's just one example, to point out how it is silly).

Right, however when so many websites post the same thing in roundabout the same period and in the same fashion, it makes sense that something bigger is calling the shots. I made an educated guess based on my experiences on my job where I see these things in action.

Jebadiah said,

Right, however when so many websites post the same thing in roundabout the same period and in the same fashion, it makes sense that something bigger is calling the shots. I made an educated guess based on my experiences on my job where I see these things in action.

A guess is fine, when it's conveyed as suspicion rather than unfounded certainty