Report: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey was the most pirated movie of 2013

For some unknown reason, the found footage teenage comedy Project X was the most pirated movie on BitTorrent sources in 2012, despite not having much of an impact in the actual film box office. For 2013, a new report claims that the most pirated movie was  The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, which certainly was a huge box office hit when it reached theaters.

TorrentFreak, which claims to have come up with its figures from several sources, says that director Peter Jackson's first third of his Hobbit trilogy was downloaded 8.4 million times from BitTorrent sites. Django Unchained, the controversial Western from director Quentin Tarantino, came in second on the pirated list with 8.1 million. The action film sequel Fast and Furious 6 was third with 7.9 million.

The rest of the top 10 pirated movie list consists mostly of big budget studio films with one exception as the Oscar winning Silver Linings Playbook came in at number 5, just behind Iron Man 3 in fourth place. Star Trek Into Darkness, Gangster Squad, Now You See Me, The Hangover Part III and World War Z round out the top 10 list this year. Other major box office successes such as Man of Steel and the Hunger Games: Catching Fire, didn't make it on the pirate list this year.

Source: TorrentFreak | Image via New Line Cinema/MGM

Report a problem with article
Previous Story

Editorial: What I predict won't happen in the tech world during 2014

Next Story

Rumor: Sony and ZTE could launch new Windows Phone 8 devices

60 Comments

Commenting is disabled on this article.

Theaters over here are constantly complaining about how piracy is killing the business with less and less people going to watch movies.

Just recently they ran a promotion of 3 days where sessions where just 3€. In those 3 days every frigging session was complete, with people queuing in every theater.

That should be telling them something if they didn't know already: the reason people don't go to the theater now as they did before is not piracy, is the 8€ ticket (over 10€ if it's 3D) + another 8€ for the popcorn (as bringing in snacks is forbidden).

Oh, we/you could have it worse....
A friend of mine is married to an Indian woman, they regularly fly from London to Mumbai and vice-versa.
He told me no further than yesterday that back then to watch Man of Steel in 3D in London with his wife it cost him about £25 per seat (roughly 30€), while just this week, he watched the 2nd Hobbit movie in 48 FPS 3D in India in a crazy souped up theater complex for 120 Indian Rupees (about 1.4€...)

Arkos Reed said,
Oh, we/you could have it worse....
A friend of mine is married to an Indian woman, they regularly fly from London to Mumbai and vice-versa.
He told me no further than yesterday that back then to watch Man of Steel in 3D in London with his wife it cost him about £25 per seat (roughly 30€), while just this week, he watched the 2nd Hobbit movie in 48 FPS 3D in India in a crazy souped up theater complex for 120 Indian Rupees (about 1.4€...)

Yes it could be worse, but still ticket prices have rised absurdingly fast compared to salaries.

They could lower the prices and get the theaters full again, or they could just stick with these prices and blame piracy.
So far they are choosing the later.

ichi said,
Just recently they ran a promotion of 3 days where sessions where just 3€. In those 3 days every frigging session was complete, with people queuing in every theater.

That should be telling them something if they didn't know already: the reason people don't go to the theater now as they did before is not piracy, is the 8€ ticket (over 10€ if it's 3D) + another 8€ for the popcorn (as bringing in snacks is forbidden).

only 8€? here is almost 13€ and in 3D is almost 17€ and with popcorn being 7€ < lol

cut the prices and people will go, no way i pay for see a movie with my country economy, especially when most movies turn out crap

Wow, so now we're using piracy to measure some form of success? Well, I guess it's pretty unbiased since you don't have region locking or pricing to sway the "votes". Interesting.

Ill buy stuff if I like it.. to know this, I must watch it first.... I pay for my food in a restaurant after Ive eaten it, so im applying the same principle. I have a fairly large blu ray collection, and have upgraded many of my favourite dvds to blu ray too.. so Im doing my bit. The only way I can see an end to piracy is by not charging so much, make stuff affordable.. Shifting more at alower price is likely to yield the same profits.

neonspark said,
it was so bad, nobody would pay for it ha ha ha.

Yet the profits from the first movie by itself have already more than paid for the production of the entire trilogy. At this point, any money made on the other two is pure gravy.

"Nobody would pay for it" alright.

Edited by _dandy_, Dec 31 2013, 8:27pm :

2xSilverKnight said,
Yeah but the movie is still bad. People paid thinking they were going to see a good movie.

Bad? Like bad acting? Bad story? Bad music? Effects? Nah those were all pretty good IMO. If by bad you mean boring then fine, you got bored.

This is like a prequel to LotR and it's how you do a prequel the right way. Starwars anyone? I will say no more.

laserfloyd said,

Bad? Like bad acting? Bad story? Bad music? Effects? Nah those were all pretty good IMO. If by bad you mean boring then fine, you got bored.

Don't kid yourself! While most stuff about the hobbit was ok to great, the story was utter crap. The book is not one of my favourites, but at least it wasn't filled with inconsistent characters and slapstick comedy.

These stats are based only on torrents, because it's easy, but if they accounted DDLs, Newsgroups and Streamin, oh my !

The hobbit most pirated movie of the year? SERVES HIM RIGHT ! Peter Jackson and New Line are the champions of consumer milking (up there with George Lucas of course)

LOTR theatrical cut per episode
LOTR theatrical cut Deluxe pack
LOTR Director's Cut per episode
LOTR Director's Cut Deluxe pack

LOTR HD theatrical cut per episode
LOTR HD theatrical cut Deluxe pack
LOTR HD Director's Cut per episode
LOTR HD Director's Cut Deluxe pack

and you can bet they'll do the same with the Hobbit
Heck, they managed to do 3 movies out of a 300 page kid novel where 2 would alreday be overkill, that in and of itself is milking

Oh, and the latest trend in home releases : split the Additional contents/scenes over all formats, so you have to buy several of them to lawfully watch all extras (see Star Trek Into Darkness)

F them

Arkos Reed said,

Heck, they managed to do 3 movies out of a 300 page kid novel where 2 would alreday be overkill, that in and of itself is milking

Oh, and the latest trend in home releases : split the Additional contents/scenes over all formats, so you have to buy several of them to lawfully watch all extras (see Star Trek Into Darkness)

F them

As much as I love the hobbit book (and the rest of the lord of the rings books) I haven't seen the hobbit movie, or rather part 1, yet for the very reason they've somehow managed to make a 300 page book into 3 movies.

At first I was very stunned by it and couldn't grasp why or how they've done it, but I've slowly come to the assumption they've just made a story based on the hobbit but detailed totally from the story line.
I could very well have forgiven them for it if it was like the lord of the rings where, the book's were do detailed and long that they had to cut large parts of the books out just to keep it down to 3 films. Personally, I'd have preferred a film for each book, but the hobbit just seems crazy.

I'm not sure how much walking across fields, mountains and sitting in wet caves I could take, if the story line IS following the book.

But like you said, home releases are really bad. I have well over 400 DVDs now, with around half of them ripped to my server with Roku and Plex doing the leg work.
It's still quite disappointing when I stick an archived DVD in and have to watch all the pre-movie trialers with no option to skip, along with being told to stop being a pirate warning (for the record, if I could download a car, I bloody well would!) ... Luckily they've addressed most of that, but I can't help but feel things could have been made better. Granted some of the limitations on DVD menu structures mean that we're only able to have basic games, quizzes and still images, but some of the 'bonus' content they brag about is shocking.

If we had the option to stream cinemas releases at home, I think most people would buy them rather then downloading a crappy video of some guy holding a camera in the cinema with people walking past, laughing and munching on popcorn. Sadly, they're too interested in stopping the pirates to see that the consumers are the ones that'll buy to watch, no the pirates. Only delaying the ability to watch movies is causing consumers to watch pirated versions.

And for the rest that do wait... at least in the UK, we're forced to wait longer while media companies have a monopoly on the videos. Sky in the UK tend to pay for exclusive access to movies for up to a year before other providers are allowed access, even on DVD or bluray and that's a shame because not every one wants sky and by the time 2 years are up, you'll have probably read about or forgotten the movie you were once so hyped to see... and as a social consequence you have no one to talk to it about.

Arkos Reed said,
The hobbit most pirated movie of the year? SERVES HIM RIGHT ! Peter Jackson and New Line are the champions of consumer milking (up there with George Lucas of course)
[...]
and you can bet they'll do the same with the Hobbit

I sincerely hope you don't think you're being particularly insightful with your Hobbit "bet". I also object to your comparing Peter Jackson with George Lucas.

*Long* before the theatrical releases of the LotR movies were out, it had already been clearly stated, on multiple occasions, that each theatrical release was going to be followed by an extended edition before the next movie came out in theaters. The messaging had always been clear from the get-go. And that's exactly what we got. BluRay wasn't even getting off the ground when it was RotK's turn to come out, so you either bought the theatrical or the extended versions. Personally, I only made 3 purchases to get 3 movies. Sounds fair to me.

Then as BluRay came onboard, the movies were re-released to take advantage of the format. Then it was your choice to move from SD to HD or not--the content remained otherwise identical. You weren't missing out on anything, except taking advantage of technology that didn't even exist at the time of the initial releases. You're not being honest if you equate that with double-dipping.

Not sure what you mean by "per episode" vs "deluxe pack". If you're talking about the individual movies vs the trilogy package, again, the content is absolutely the same and it makes no sense for anyone to ever get both. The only reason to get the "deluxe pack", as you call it, is if you've never bought any of the movies individually.

Compare that now with Revisionist George, who kept re-releasing everything every couple of years, for the last 30 years, remastered, extended, with a few extra seconds here and there, with altered scenes, cleaned up, "the way it was meant to be seen" (for the 12th time)...and then he kept releasing this stuff on DVD, despite BluRay having been on the market for years and people screaming at him for BluRay versions...

As for The Hobbit...I waited for the extended 3D BluRay. If 3D's not my thing, then the 2D version is part of the same package and I can watch that instead. I'll do the same with the next 2. So in the end, I will have made a total of 3 purchases, for 3 movies. You're only kidding yourself if you think this is milking a franchise the way George Lucas does.

I'm admitting that i didn't download the movie on a torrent network, but i did watch it on a website streaming it.

I enjoy these movies so i bought it on blu-ray and i'll do the same with the newest one.

I watched it on HBO (I think it was), and wasn't that impressed with it. It just wasn't what I thought it'd be. In fact, I thought it sucked. Did I pirate it? No, didn't want to take the chance with another ISP letter/connection cut off. After seeing it, would I ever pirate it? H### NO! Even if it DID have Kim Kardashian in it (which I think the person two posts above me must be smoking wacky tobaccy)....still, a big fat NO!

Make it worth watching and people will pay for it to support another movie worth watching. I was never a big fan of the LoTR series anyways. Besides I am really getting tired of Kim Kardashian.

Gotenks98 said,
Make it worth watching and people will pay for it to support another movie worth watching. I was never a big fan of the LoTR series anyways. Besides I am really getting tired of Kim Kardashian.

I got the reference, look mum, I GOT THE REFERENCE!

That won't change anything. The only true way to slow down piracy is to make it so inconvenient, so difficult that most people just can't be arsed faffing about to get the movie free and they just give up and pay for it. Sure some people may just not purchase it in protest but let's face it, they were never going to buy it anyway so it's not really a lost sale.

People probably wanted to sit at home and enjoy The Hobbit in comfort, if you include all the adverts / trailers before the film you would probably be in the cinema for over 3 and a half hours easily... that's just too long to be un-comfy for, especially if your pretty tall and have no legroom.

I go to the cinema a fair few times a year, just not for films that are excessively long. I'm more than happy to wait for the Blu-ray in this case.

Mr. Hand said,
Then wait for the DVD? Is there some life necessity that you see it right now?


Ah the DVD.
Big movies tend to take a while to come out on DVD. Mostly because media/cable companies get exclusive rights first, before its even allowed to go to other cable/streaming providers, let alone onto DVD.

By that point, you're looking at least a year and there are other movies your friends are watching or you've simply forgotten about.

I know every year I see the upcoming movie releases on Apple trailers and make a note to watch them when they are released on DVD... but I tend to just browse my local stores and websites for new titles. Unless it's a massive hit, I'll probably miss it.

sagum said,


Ah the DVD.
Big movies tend to take a while to come out on DVD. Mostly because media/cable companies get exclusive rights first, before its even allowed to go to other cable/streaming providers, let alone onto DVD.

By that point, you're looking at least a year and there are other movies your friends are watching or you've simply forgotten about. And as anyone knows after visiting the cinemas with friends, you can be talking about a film for days and weeks.. months together and, of course trying not to talk to people around you who've not yet watched it is a bit of a pain.

I know every year I see the upcoming movie releases on Apple trailers and make a note to watch them when they are released on DVD... but I tend to just browse my local stores and websites for new titles. Unless it's a massive hit, I'll probably miss it.

Mr. Hand said,
Then wait for the DVD? Is there some life necessity that you see it right now?

You mean only so you can sit through trailers you can't skip.

warwagon said,

You mean only so you can sit through trailers you can't skip.

Don't forget all the unskippable warnings telling you how your soul will burn in hell if you pirate the movie! I mean seriously, what are the point of those warnings? pirates won't see them. I mean if they could invent a tech that makes it so those unskippable warnings popup if the disc is pirated, then yeah I might see the point of them. However, right now all they are doing is punishing their honest customers. Essentially they are saying "thanks for buying our movie you would be pirate scum, now wait while we shove these warnings down your throat! oh and while we have you hostage, maybe your interested in these movies too?" </rant>

As appaling as piracy is, wasn't there a report on one of these most pirated movies also being a record breaker for highest grossing in box offices?

(Surely it's either affecting the take or it isn't?)

Sorry, I failed to clarify (using my phone to post, so I get impatient and annoyed trying to post due to typos etc...)

I thought the sales here helped, and actually in some cases boosted, due to the fact the the people who pirated, also bought said material retail, once again sorry for not taking the time and going through the threads to provide source (nor do I like using the copy/paste on this phone)

It is rather sad that people keep breaking piracy records. I honestly wonder if the Motion Picture Association is taking this into account and rather than put all its efforts into punishing pirates, maybe they should put a little effort into changing either the release schedules or finding some other options for getting the content to the consumer. Piracy is not always about people not being willing to pay for something. a lot of times it is because either the proper means are not accessible or other reasons.

Lord Method Man said,

Where was the Hobbit not being shown? I'm not buying this excuse. It's being pirated because people don't want to pay to see it, period.

The Hobbit was released here, I never liked watching movies in a cinema, some people like it , I do not. I like watching on my own LCD or laptop. I pirated the movie, if it was available for download (with price set to local standards, just as MS does), I would have bought it in a heartbeat.

The people who make movies deserve to be paid, the world is content hungry, prices should be set by region / country keeping in mind the purchasing power.

i was not specifically talking about The Hobbit. just stuff in general. also they do not have it at my local theater, i have to drive an hour and a half to see it.

Lord Method Man said,

Where was the Hobbit not being shown? I'm not buying this excuse. It's being pirated because people don't want to pay to see it, period.

I went to see it at the cinema twice in 3D, I then bought the blu ray, I also pay for Netflix and it was available on there. Recently I got a 3D TV and I pirated a 3D copy of it because I felt like I'd paid more then enough for the movie by that point. Also a lot of the time pirated copies of movies are so much better than retail copies, for example, Yify give you a fantastic quality/file size which is great if you want to download something quick. If I could legally download movies with decent quality/file size ratios and at a decent price, say £10 instead of £15-20, I wouldn't be inclined to pirate a movie every once in a while.

Lord Method Man said,

Where was the Hobbit not being shown? I'm not buying this excuse. It's being pirated because people don't want to pay to see it, period.

That's an incredibly nieve opinion, but I will expand on what Geoffrey should have said.

1, The films should released much closer together around the world, not 6 months or a year in one country ahead of another.
2, The films, when released should be much cheaper. If a film was £4.99 instead of £14.99, it would tempt more people.
3, Digital media shouldn't have restrictions - If I've paid to download a film, I should be allowed to watch it a week, month or year later, when ever I decided, not within the '48 hours' period that the provider is letting me.
4, Channel companies should allow users to download a series episode a week in advance, for say ~99p-£1.99 I would almost certainly pay this each week to download one or 2 of my fav TV shows ahead of the broadcasting date.

Im sorry, but industry is doing most of this to themselves with greed, stupidity and backhanded contracts.

Edited by Adam1V, Dec 31 2013, 6:31pm :

Adam1V said,

That's an incredibly nieve opinion, but I will expand on what Geoffrey should have said.

No. You're just trying to rationalize your piracy. And point #2 just reinforces the fact i stated that you just don't want to have to pay for it.

Where I live, it's a mindset. I went to the theaters 34 times this year (it was a good year). Every time I asked someone if they would like to go with me, they would ask how was I going to see that movie if it wasn't even online. The idea of watching it in a room didn't even cross their minds.

Lord Method Man said,

Where was the Hobbit not being shown? I'm not buying this excuse. It's being pirated because people don't want to pay to see it, period.

Some people pirate because there is no legal, DRM-free download available for purchase. Some people passionately hate physical media.

Adam1V said,

4, Channel companies should allow users to download a series episode a week in advance, for say ~99p-£1.99 I would almost certainly pay this each week to download one or 2 of my fav TV shows ahead of the broadcasting date.

Im sorry, but industry is doing most of this to themselves with greed, stupidity and backhanded contracts.

5. The Hobbit should have been made in 1 movie or at the very most 2 movies.

The Hobbit is not a big book. Making it a 3 movies experience is pure utter greed. The ticket for the Hobbit is basically 45$.

I enjoyed the first movie but while the 2nd movie was technically great i could not recognize the story at all. It totally felt like a different story. I'll be honest i've read The Hobbit something like 20 years ago but i've not felt this with LOTR movies even though i've read the LOTR books more than 20 years ago (before The Hobbit).

Pratically the whole DoS movie i was "wtf i can't remember that being in the book".

Lord Method Man said,

Where was the Hobbit not being shown? I'm not buying this excuse. It's being pirated because people don't want to pay to see it, period.

Well yea, I mean that's a lot of it, but it's also because.. well, they can.

I have a friend who download a lot movies, but not just the big movies, he downloads tons of utter rubbish, I mean straight to DVD stuff you'd never even hear of. Why, I don't know.

Piracy has nailed distribution, & it's become the norm for so many people that it's legality it completely trivial to them.

Lord Method Man said,

No. You're just trying to rationalize your piracy. And point #2 just reinforces the fact i stated that you just don't want to have to pay for it.

You make me laugh, #2 - the price of a movie has everything to do with it. Let's up the scale to £1000 a movie or a free illegal download, how do you think the sales figures will look then?

Or they reduce the films to £1.99, how will they look then?

So to answer your question, correct I am not willing to pay £15 for a movie, the same as I'm not willing to pay £65 for a console game.

Adam1V said,

So to answer your question, correct I am not willing to pay £15 for a movie, the same as I'm not willing to pay £65 for a console game.

Then don't buy them. It still just a rationalization and doesn't justify piracy.

Lord Method Man said,

Then don't buy them. It still just a rationalization and doesn't justify piracy.


Now don't compare downloading movies / mp3s / software to stealing a car. If I could put a car in my computer copy / paste it, and place the original car back, I would.

Blueclub said,

Now don't compare downloading movies / mp3s / software to stealing a car. If I could put a car in my computer copy / paste it, and place the original car back, I would.

I wonder how long it would take to 3D print a car . . . :-D

DConnell said,

I wonder how long it would take to 3D print a car . . . :-D

And how long it will take before people call this action stealing

Lord Method Man said,

Then don't buy them. It still just a rationalization and doesn't justify piracy.

If I buy a paperback book, read it and give it to my friend after, is this called piracy?
What if I buy that book digitally and give it to a friend after? Why is it considered piracy just because it's digital?
The copyright rules are outdated and need to be updated to reflect a more digital life.
I also think you need to open your eyes to simply saying people should not pirate material, it's not that clear cut.

Adam1V said,

If I buy a paperback book, read it and give it to my friend after, is this called piracy?

No because of first sale doctrine, same with a physical disc.

It doesn't make it legal to photocopy the book and distribute it to others. You sound just like the Napster kiddies getting banned back in the late 90s with your pathetic rationalizations. You're just childish and entitled and don't want to have to pay for anything.

Lord Method Man said,

No. You're just trying to rationalize your piracy. And point #2 just reinforces the fact i stated that you just don't want to have to pay for it.

I agree with Method Man. Explaining piracy and rationalizing it is two different thing. There are many reasons why people pirate these types of movies, including DRM, prices and availability. However, piracy shows a sense of entitlement. If you don't approve of the DRM or prices of a product, don't buy it. Piracy just shows that you should get everything you want on your own terms, aka: entitlement.

Senlis said,
Piracy just shows that you should get everything you want on your own terms, aka: entitlement.

I absolutely disagree. I don't see it as being entitlement as such, I mean some may act like that now because piracy has become such of a norm in many places.

But we aren't talking about armed robbery here, it's the unlicensed mass sharing of data.

The individual downloader realizes how completely irrelevant they are to the whole picture & hence the illegality is completely trivial. In other words, who cares if I download?

Do you think Warner Brothers would care if I bought one of their DVD's or Blu-rays & was dissatisfied with the film or it's presentation, & regretted purchasing it? No, of course not. Because who am I?

Disregarding pirates as "Napster kiddies" & folks who feel entitled, is only doing yourself a disservice in understanding why people, who wouldn't even steal a 1p sweet, pirate.

Senlis said,

I agree with Method Man. Explaining piracy and rationalizing it is two different thing. There are many reasons why people pirate these types of movies, including DRM, prices and availability. However, piracy shows a sense of entitlement. If you don't approve of the DRM or prices of a product, don't buy it. Piracy just shows that you should get everything you want on your own terms, aka: entitlement.

Copyright / intellectual property holders show a sense of entitlement. They place configurations of property higher than physical property rights. It undermines ownership of storage devices. Saying that I am unable to configure my physical property in a way I see fit just because someone put time / effort / what-have-you into creating that configuration is ridiculous. What about the time / effort / etc. I put into paying for the storage medium?

From your perspective, I guess pirates are entitled for wanting to own their physical property in lieu of someone else owning it.

Edited by nvllsvm, Jan 1 2014, 8:31pm :

nvllsvm said,

Copyright / intellectual property holders show a sense of entitlement. They place configurations of property higher than physical property rights. It undermines ownership of storage devices. Saying that I am unable to configure my physical property in a way I see fit just because someone put time / effort / what-have-you into creating that configuration is ridiculous. What about the time / effort / etc. I put into paying for the storage medium?

From your perspective, I guess pirates are entitled for wanting to own their physical property in lieu of someone else owning it.

In the case that the terms of purchase are unnaceptable, we have two different views. Your view is that you should get it for free with those restrictions removed. Why do you feel that you should get that product regardless? My view is to not buy the product and buy someone else's product.

Lamp0 said,

I absolutely disagree. I don't see it as being entitlement as such, I mean some may act like that now because piracy has become such of a norm in many places.

But we aren't talking about armed robbery here, it's the unlicensed mass sharing of data.

The individual downloader realizes how completely irrelevant they are to the whole picture & hence the illegality is completely trivial. In other words, who cares if I download?

Do you think Warner Brothers would care if I bought one of their DVD's or Blu-rays & was dissatisfied with the film or it's presentation, & regretted purchasing it? No, of course not. Because who am I?

Disregarding pirates as "Napster kiddies" & folks who feel entitled, is only doing yourself a disservice in understanding why people, who wouldn't even steal a 1p sweet, pirate.

From what I understand of this post, you are saying that stealing (and I know there are semantics about that term) a movie or game is insignificant, and therefore OK. The same arguments could be made for armed robbery, since the store owner is insured and insurance companies have a lot of money, but I digress.

I don't agree with, "My actions don't really hurt anyone, therefore they are OK argument". Regardless, the problem is when a multitude of people feel the same way. Then you have a large collection of people each committing seemingly harmless acts which add up to a large loss.

Senlis said,
From what I understand of this post, you are saying that stealing (and I know there are semantics about that term) a movie or game is insignificant, and therefore OK. The same arguments could be made for armed robbery, since the store owner is insured and insurance companies have a lot of money, but I digress.

I don't agree with, "My actions don't really hurt anyone, therefore they are OK argument". Regardless, the problem is when a multitude of people feel the same way. Then you have a large collection of people each committing seemingly harmless acts which add up to a large loss.

I am not saying that it necessarily makes it "OK", but for the individual downloader, the irrelevance of their simple downloads makes whether it's "OK" or not, pretty easy to disregard. I mean, a DL is as removed to the individual downloader, as sharing a CD.

Whilst a single armed robbery might be insignificant to the total, it's still a pretty audacious action to undertake.

I honestly don't know which side I'd come down on in regards to piracy. I mean I don't think any one has gone from riches to rags because of piracy & it hasn't broken the entertainment industry. If piracy stopped completely, I don't think it'd make that much difference. People aren't going to be splashing their amount if they suddenly can't get it for free.