Rumor: The Start Button to return in Windows 8.1

Aside from Microsoft potentially enabling users to skip straight to the desktop upon booting Windows 8.1, another rumor on the street is that Microsoft is also looking at bringing back the Start Button in the update following user feedback. Mary Jo Foley of ZDNet reports that one of her sources not only confirmed the boot to desktop option, but that "Microsoft also is considering bringing back the Start Button as an option with Windows Blue", although "until it ships, anything can change".

While it won't be bringing the Start Menu with it, the return of the Start Button would give an easier channel directly to the Start Screen, and provide users with a familiar button as opposed to clicking essentially nothing in the bottom left corner. A number of third-party solutions bring back the Start Button in Windows 8, and they've proved a popular solution for people who aren't willing to get used to the changes Microsoft has made.

It's not completely confirmed that the Start Button will return in Windows Blue/8.1, but if Microsoft is indeed responding to feedback from consumers and enterprises, we could be seeing an option to bring back the Button in the next leaked build of the operating system.

Source: ZDNet | Image via Stardock (of Start8)

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OK Listen up Microsoft...if you want people to use Windows 8, you will do the following:

1)Remove Metro...Yes the whole thing, people hate it...Use it to create a completely separate Tablet OS, call it something like Windows 8 Tablet Edition. But keep it the hell away from Windows 8 Desktop.

2)Bring back the Start Button. The great thing about Start is the quick access to search. Everything is there on one screen. It is also great for my fav shortcuts etc.

3)Get rid of all that invisible crap, hot corners, swipe to change apps all that bull****. I want real clickable buttons

While they are fixing their mistakes how about some close buttons on their little fullscreen phone apps? Having to click the top of the screen and drag down to close a program on a desktop is just ridiculous. Apparently it's not considered modern to have controls you can actually see anymore, let's hide them instead and make everyone hunt for secret hot spots and learn mouse gestures to do anything.

Microsoft also needs to ship Windows 8.1 with pre-installed icons pinned on the Start Screen, such as Shutdown options, Default Programs, Windows Update, just to name a few that I felt were missing and had to add manually.

And please for the love of God, implement tabs for Windows Explorer
see Clover : http://ejie.me/

well in my opinion I think that a start button would be ideal for the fact that it would give the bottom corner somewhere to click rather than having a invisible click to get to the start page.all thou I would not want the start button to have the functions be like in Windows 7 just a plain windows button to go back to the start page.
I Must admit I am a big fan of windows 8 for lots of reasons but main ones being, its faster booting and apps run alott faster and its a cleaner, as well as being able to start internet explorer straight from the main start page rather than going desktop its a quicker acess.

If they do bring back the start button, I hope it's only an option. Some of us like the new way of doing things. I always auto hid my task bar anyway. taking away the start button never felt any different to me. Oh well, I guess they're never going to be able to make everyone happy.

Therein is the perfect example of Microsoft's arrogance and the huge mistake it made. The word is "option." During the installation of Windows-8, user should have had the option to have (a) Start button, (b) Start Menu, and (c) boot directly to desktop. Thus, users without touch-centric devices could still have the full Window-7 functionality along with its look and feel. Alas, Microsoft chose not to.

Meh, If the Start Menu comes back as an option, I definitely wouldn't use it. I've hated it since the beginning. I guess I'm the 1% of people who actually like the Start Screen.

Meh, i have no problem with it how it is, but if some users have then i guess making it an option isn't a bad thing. Bit of a step backwards mind you, users would have adapted over time.

Also, personally i think this story is just an inaccurate rumor.

I don't recall Macs ever having a start button/menu to begin with. Mac users would decry Apple if they removed the dock...

The Start Button without a Start Menu is useless. MS needs to just pull their heads out of their ass and return Windows to a usable, productive state. This means bring back the Start Button and Start Menu with its full functionality and turning off the stupid Start Screen. The Metro experiment on a desktop computer failed before Windows 8 was even officially released. The feedback to Microsoft about this was overwhelming, yet they ignored the fact that a tablet interface on a desktop, or even a laptop, was not wanted. Unfortunately, Windows users are not the "sheep" that Apple users are. We think for ourselves and have our own way of doing things. Microsoft, get this Windows Blue update released with the "bugs" you introduced in Windows 8 fixed immediately!

RottGutt said,
The Start Button without a Start Menu is useless. MS needs to just pull their heads out of their ass and return Windows to a usable, productive state. This means bring back the Start Button and Start Menu with its full functionality and turning off the stupid Start Screen. The Metro experiment on a desktop computer failed before Windows 8 was even officially released. The feedback to Microsoft about this was overwhelming, yet they ignored the fact that a tablet interface on a desktop, or even a laptop, was not wanted. Unfortunately, Windows users are not the "sheep" that Apple users are. We think for ourselves and have our own way of doing things. Microsoft, get this Windows Blue update released with the "bugs" you introduced in Windows 8 fixed immediately!

Really easy to say everyone who enjoys the startscreen is a sheep. Personally I think the startscreen is an improvement, even on non-touch. It combines the startmenu, desktop, notificationbar as well as much more into one screen. Live tiles are much more effective then having statis icons spread over various menus, maps and other screens.

I do think the UI itself needs to be optimized for non-touch but the startscreen itself is a much needed improvement. The traditional desktop with start button looks old compared to a newer OS.

I don't really get it. If you recall, there was a start button on the desktop in the Win8 developer preview (which took you to the start screen), and it was removed because it caused more confusion than it helped. There's no start button available from within apps (because a core principle of the design is that apps get 100% of the screen with no distracting system chrome), so having one on the desktop just means you have two apparently different methods of getting to Start to learn (or mislearn), instead of one consistent method.

contextfree said,
I don't really get it. If you recall, there was a start button on the desktop in the Win8 developer preview (which took you to the start screen), and it was removed because it caused more confusion than it helped. There's no start button available from within apps (because a core principle of the design is that apps get 100% of the screen with no distracting system chrome), so having one on the desktop just means you have two apparently different methods of getting to Start to learn (or mislearn), instead of one consistent method.

The starbutton in the taskbar was confusing but Windows 8 has always has a start button, its one of the charms. if they add an option to put th charms (and other hidden UI features) on the screen for those with large non-touch screens it could be a huge improvement.

But yeah just adding the start button to the desktop environment would be a pointless act. you already have the left hotcorner that does the exact thing. But yeah if this reduces some of the complaints then why not. For me the startscreen is the main screen but if others operate from the desktop and see the startscreen as a full version of the menu then fine.

Yeah I do think an optionally pinnable sidebar/taskbar sort of thing could be a good idea for large displays - it could have the charms, clock, and other useful stuff.

The problem with everything microsoft has done is when "Windows Classic" went away, microsoft didn't just completely remove it. They gave users an option and slowly weeded it out. Here they just cut it high and dry.

A Start "Button" won't solve anything becuase your still brought to the gawd awful start screen that can't do anything without the charms bar. Which already has a "Start Button" to begin with. Bringing back the "Start Button" would seem just as bad as bring the entire thing back if becuase of redundancy.

Put in a start button that takes you to metro?
Windows 8 continues to set new records for being the biggest blunder in the entire history of computing.

Order_66 said,
Put in a start button that takes you to metro?
Windows 8 continues to set new records for being the biggest blunder in the entire history of computing.

It's a start button that takes you to a fullscreen start menu...

rfirth said,

It's a start button that takes you to a fullscreen start menu...

I'm pretty sure around 99% of people who know what the windows 8 abomination is also know what someone is referring to when they use the word "metro".

As long as they make it optional I wouldn't care. I do not miss or need the start button and it would only waste space for me.

It should never have gone away. Very nasty move on Microsoft's part, most especially in not giving users the choice of how the OS would look, feel, and act during the installation process. Two form factors, two UIs. Its that simple.

FalseAgent said,
Doing this will shut up 90% of Windows 8 whiners, so i'm all for it.

Well 80% of them want the start menu, so this will shut up about 10% of them.

warwagon said,

Well 80% of them want the start menu, so this will shut up about 10% of them.

99% don't know the difference between a start button and a start menu.

lctb51 said,
Removing the start menu is like removing a door knob then hiding it, it is unnerving!

HA! Sooo True! That comment made me laugh out loud.

They really should put it back. That invisible 10 pixel hotspot... well, Windows 8 is a disaster. That Sinofsky dude did it all, and then left. Unbelievable.

Giving people options instead of forcing something down their throats is a good thing.

Most companies don't understand this concept.

Still using Vista (and numerous old programs) because of it.

DAOWAce said,
Giving people options instead of forcing something down their throats is a good thing.

Most companies don't understand this concept.

Still using Vista (and numerous old programs) because of it.

I don't get these comments. Did someone hold a gun to your head and tell you to do something?

warwagon said,

hidden

duplicated

How many software start buttons do you need? How many hardware? I have two software and two hardware...

The Start button never left. It just didn't have a logo on it, for some bizarre reason.

As for booting directly to desktop, this would make sense for desktop users (i.e. - people without tablets, touch laptops and convertibles).

Also, make it so when you open a file in the desktop, you stay in the desktop by default (as in the file will open up in the desktop environment, unless no desktop application is installed to open that file). The same with the Modern UI - try to keep the user from having to enter the desktop when opening a file by default (again, unless the file type can only be opened in a desktop application). This will make the experience a lot more seamless for average joe, while the power users can make their customizations that fit their routine.

To **ALL** who think that the lack of the Start Menu is progress/evolution/whatever :
1. Windows 8 should come with a Start Menu, and if YOU don't like it, DON'T USE IT!
2. Get A LIFE!

KsenOug said,
To **ALL** who think that the lack of the Start Menu is progress/evolution/whatever :
1. Windows 8 should come with a Start Menu, and if YOU don't like it, DON'T USE IT!
2. Get A LIFE!

1. Windows 8 don't come with a Start Menu, and if you want one, than download one
2. Get A LIFE!

I'm OK with the comeback of the Start button... but there should be an option to remove it. I'm not missing the start button at all. And it should be removed by default on tablet devices that have start Button.

I'm not bothered about the Start Button since moving my house to where it was does the same thing but it being an option is a huge plus for those who are struggling learning Windows 8.

The Boot to Desktop is a welcome feature though!!

8.1 update they bringing back start button. Next update 8.2 they bring back start menu

And btw this great news and maybe there is hope for Windows 8 after all if this rumor true!

While I like Win8, both these would be welcome
(If you think about it both WP8 and the RT devices have 'start buttons' on the unit body)

minoskid said,
I'm reading all of the Windows 8.1 news, and I think that this update gonna be #WIN

Hopefully. I miss #WIN. All we have is #TILE

If Windows 8.1 Boots to Desktop and The Start Menu returns and acts like the start menu I am used to, that's when I will upgrade. Yes I know it is a stupid reason why I never upgraded and I don't want to hear it from the Microsoft fanboys. This is how I feel. You don't like it. Don't comment.

But guess what, a lot of people feel that way and it looks (as predicted) we have forced Microsoft's hand.

Please re-read what we're talking about. We're talking about the Start Button. The Start Menu isn't coming back.

The Start Button will bring up the Start Screen like how the early betas had it.

DarkNet said,
Please read what I am talking about. If it doesn't come back, I won't install it. Simple.

Microsoft got their licensing fee from you, they don't really care about your opinion as a non-8 user.

Maybe not, but it seems they're starting to care about the amount of users NOT paying their licensing fee recently... And frankly it's a shame it had to come down to that.

deadonthefloor said,

Microsoft got their licensing fee from you, they don't really care about your opinion as a non-8 user.

With all these rumors lately; apparently they do. I'm glad Microsoft is struggling with Windows 8 Sales. I'm glad they are struggling with Windows Phone sales. All these things should serve as a wake up call to Microsoft. See why majority of people have no interest in your product and work on that.

I was fixing some stuff on my Aunt's laptop that was running Windows 8. I found it to be the worst OS MS have ever put out.

For every User that complains from this in W8, all I do is creat a new Toolbar form:

C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs

Cannot get any easier tan that! I am surprised at how most comments in 'Tech' blogs complain, they are people supposed to be the ones with knowhow for simple things like this, Defently marketing has dumb down knowledge! It's a shame.

VHMP01 said,
For every User that complains from this in W8, all I do is creat a new Toolbar form:

C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs

Cannot get any easier tan that! I am surprised at how most comments in 'Tech' blogs complain, they are people supposed to be the ones with knowhow for simple things like this, Defently marketing has dumb down knowledge! It's a shame.

There is a lot more to the Start Menu than just a list of programs.

I forgot, if you put a Direct Access to the most used 'Program' or desktop App like 'Outlook' inside the 'Start' folder, guess what; you go straight to the Desktop and get s Start Menu... So simple!

C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office 15\root\office15\outlook.exe

techbeck said,

There is a lot more to the Start Menu than just a list of programs.

This is one of my biggest problems with the start menu. Its a completely overloaded button, doing a million things but none very well. Its not a great app launcher, not a great search tool, and isn't easy to customize with the functionality I need.

Im feel so sorry about all the microsoft's fanboys that claimed that MS was so "smart" when MS decided to remove the Start Button.

Brony said,
Im feel so sorry about all the microsoft's fanboys that claimed that MS was so "smart" when MS decided to remove the Start Button.

It's clearly you that don't understand that things that pop out of nowhere depending on where you place the mouse cursor are clearly the latest in user friendliness. I think it could be made far more easier though, if they required the user to jump three times on their right leg and quack like a duck to make the corners work, but I don't think the world is ready yet for such a leap ahead in user interfaces. A man can dream though... a man can dream...

I was never bothered by the removal of the start button, more bewildered: why remove the Windows Logo from being permanently shown on screen? It should have been left there as a branding exercise if nothing else...

This would be nice on servers. When you RDP to a Windows Server 2012 box running a full GUI - it can be fun trying to get your mouse in the exact right spot in the lower-left corner of the RDP window to get to the start screen there.

or you know you could use the short cut Alt+Home to bring up the start menu

or right click the top of the window and use the remote commands menu and go into the start option.

or in full screen rdp there is this nice little down arrow which also brings up the remote commands menu.

Of course the second/third option probably requires win8 as the client and i dont know about the first one.

awergh said,
....

Yes those are all W8 (RDP App) commands.

I use something called Remote Desktop Connection manager which loads a hostlist saved in XML. This tool is apparently quite common in server admin land, where I just learned of it.

Trying to find a 10px hotcorner on a scaled down desktop UI can indeed be tricky.
There are other options mind you.
As long as the right click start has the same options as Win8/Server2012 RTM (with Run Powershell as Administrator) I'm installing blue immediatly upon release.

Yes, little things do matter and MS does respond but I cannot believe the toxicity surrounding this issue. Why does technology have to be elevated to the level of religion and politics? Can someone point out where anyone ever expressed passionate love for the Start button before?! For years I have trained people on Windows software and whenever I would say "Hit the Start button..." they would fumble around for 5 seconds finding it or say "What's that?" It got to the point where I would just automatically say "lower left corner" because they clearly didn't know what Start was or how to use it.

How do people even cope when they login to the desktop of OS X and don't find a Start button there?! My God it must suck to be Microsoft with this kind of irrationality out there!

Do you get the feeling that the same guy that decided to remove the start button, was the same guy that thought an "ORB" would be a great idea in Office 2007, or that removing the word "FILE" from the upper left corner of Photo Gallery, and Windows Live Mail was also "intuitive"

Little things mean a lot, and having a button at least give me a target to point folks to when I tell them to right click on it to get to control panel. I'll take it if I can get it, but I'm not crying if it doesn't come. To think dumb little things like this will probably boost sales by the millions though.

Finally one good decision, but in order Windows 8 not to fail they need to do more... For now Windows 7 is the king.

Brony said,
how windows 8 is faster?. only in Boot time?

Read the engineering Windows blog here: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/

While it does boot faster, that is not the only thing. The entire OS is faster. One particular mention is the graphics stack. Text got faster, 2D drawing got faster, image decoding got faster, these are things almost every application uses and they got 130% to 300% faster in Windows 8.

I just converted a Win 8 laptop to Win 7 for a customer. The entire machine is quicker now. Except for boot times.

Even without the start menu, this is one of those common-sense UI things that MS should have done from the beginning..

Love or hate metro/start screen/start menu/etc, ( and I'm one of those that hates the Start Screen ), the button on the bottom left has been a Signature part of Windows for as long as Most people have used it. Most technical troubleshooting starts with "Click on the start button and..." Abandoning it so quickly, while it can work for us, will (and HAS) left many casual users confused.

And from a Business point of view, having to re-train, and re-write existing training, to work for Windows 8 is an investment they don't want (or need) to make so long as they can stick with Windows 7 that works and acts the same way as it's previous versions.

I don't even care if it takes me to the Start Screen, having nothing in that corner doesn't make sense for desktop/laptop users. Should have kept that button from the leaked builds

a button in the corner that you dont need to see is making the gui more complex. also the sidebar is available from everywhere not just the 25 yera old desktop.

There should be an option to enable the classic start button ala Windows 7 or have the default one in Windows 8. Options never hurt anyone, in fact, made things better. Although I don't understand all this fuss with the new Start Screen.

Kudos to that. Everyone has different tastes and preferences. So whats hurting them to give the option of whether users can choose between the old start menu or new. Even the option of disabling Metro (or even removing it would be nice) - At the end its about consumer choice.
The Metro apps may have their use - but on my desktop I have my own type of programs.
If I want to tinker with apps - Metro then can be selected or I will just use my Android devices

It's absolutely stunning and sad that people will completely ignore Windows 8 because of this "issue". An "issue" that can be fixed in less than 60 seconds with a simple piece of freeware. In the time it took for most to write a comment bashing Microsoft, they could have removed the "issue".

It may seem silly to cause all this... commotion over a button. But the big deal about this is that the start button is an application launcher and search feature that leaves the rest of the desktop intact despite using it. All of Windows in desktop mode is built on windows, and the start menu attempts to maintain the usability of these windows even while using this launcher. The Windows 8 start screen, however, took this important aspect out of the picture and replaced it with a push to the Modern UI.

The problem isn't that you can't hack around it, but that it's a signal from Microsoft on where they want the future of Windows to take place. Hint: Not in a desktop mode. This made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.

It essentially becomes a question of "Where do Microsoft want to be?" With Windows 8.1, it seems like Microsoft is about to clarify this. Many felt that Windows 8 was at a crossroads with both interfaces available, and with a gentle nudge towards the Modern UI path. With Windows 8.1, it seems like Microsoft is about to say "Sorry about that. Windows does let you do both. You choose and we'll be there!"

Northgrove said,
It essentially becomes a question of "Where do Microsoft want to be?" With Windows 8.1, it seems like Microsoft is about to clarify this. Many felt that Windows 8 was at a crossroads with both interfaces available, and with a gentle nudge towards the Modern UI path. With Windows 8.1, it seems like Microsoft is about to say "Sorry about that. Windows does let you do both. You choose and we'll be there!"

You are conflating start button and start menu. This button would probably bring up the start screen as it did in early Windows 8 betas. If anything this is just a tacit admission that they're having trouble training people to use metro.

DeaconFrost88 said,
It's absolutely stunning and sad that people will completely ignore Windows 8 because of this "issue". An "issue" that can be fixed in less than 60 seconds with a simple piece of freeware. In the time it took for most to write a comment bashing Microsoft, they could have removed the "issue".

This is because you are clearly NOT one of the 99% of home and business computer users.

Those of us who have been bashing Windows 8 since before anyone here saw it publicly have been thinking of them, not you.

Everyone here on Neowin is among the 1% of computer users, so it's not an issue for us to adapt to anything MS throws at us.

Click the desktop tile and tadá... A windows 7 like desktop with just a slightly different appearance. Just like every desktop on every Windows release to date.

Windows 7 taught us to use Winkey+typing to open or execute what you wanted. The start screen is no different. (although system/administrative stuff needs 2 presses on the down key)

Click the desktop tile and tadá... A windows 7 like desktop with just a slightly different appearance. Just like every desktop on every Windows release to date.

Windows 7 taught us to use Winkey+typing to open or execute what you wanted. The start screen is no different. (although system/administrative stuff needs 2 presses on the down key)

Actually, that Winkey trick dates back to (surprisingly) Windows 9x/NT -however, I can see how some folks weren't aware of it, as Windows-logo-keyboards were generally not standard issue until Windows 2000, which also had that trick. (In fact, the big reason I was had to do with my purchasing an OEM version of the Microsoft Natural Keyboard Elite for my personal use - in 1998, for use with Windows 98 "Classic Edition".) The Winkey trick has not gone away in any OS since - even Windows 8 still retains it (despite the Start menu itself going away).

humanz. said,
Yes, MS I'd like to use Windows like I did in 7. Please respond!

Just in Windows 7? Never used Windows before that?

Never really did understand the point of removing (well, technically moving it into the charms bar) the Start button.

Not having some kind of visual element down there (where people expect it) just adds another stumbling block for users new to Windows 8.

virtorio said,
Never really did understand the point of removing (well, technically moving it into the charms bar) the Start button.

Not having some kind of visual element down there (where people expect it) just adds another stumbling block for users new to Windows 8.

And it's a struggle for anyone who's used it once right? No. After they find it, that's it. Done. In their mind. No more use for the button. It's not needed.

After about a month of using Windows 8, I find that the missing start menu is an annoyance.

I hope they bring it back with Windows Blue.

Jaybot said,
After about a month of using Windows 8, I find that the missing start menu is an annoyance.

I hope they bring it back with Windows Blue.

Me too but it is not a real deal. However, i miss Aero more than the start button.

What a stupid idea. Evolution ****es a TINY amount of people off ... go with it and stop backtracking because of a bunch of geeks on forums bitching. Idiocy to re-enlist the button. It is fine without it. In fact, it's great without it. Don't like it? Install Windows 7. Believe me, if you keep holding back, you'll find it real hard to switch when Windows 7 is too out of date to use on the generation of hardware you're using at the time.

Spirit Dave said,
What a stupid idea. Evolution ****es a TINY amount of people off ... go with it and stop backtracking because of a bunch of geeks on forums bitching. Idiocy to re-enlist the button. It is fine without it. In fact, it's great without it. Don't like it? Install Windows 7. Believe me, if you keep holding back, you'll find it real hard to switch when Windows 7 is too out of date to use on the generation of hardware you're using at the time.

Its not the full start button/menu. Just a visible button to show the metro screen.

Spirit Dave said,
What a stupid idea. Evolution ****es a TINY amount of people off ... go with it and stop backtracking because of a bunch of geeks on forums bitching. Idiocy to re-enlist the button. It is fine without it. In fact, it's great without it. Don't like it? Install Windows 7. Believe me, if you keep holding back, you'll find it real hard to switch when Windows 7 is too out of date to use on the generation of hardware you're using at the time.

How is it evolution?
tips : new is not always an evolution or a good thing.

Spirit Dave said,
What a stupid idea. Evolution ****es a TINY amount of people off ... go with it and stop backtracking because of a bunch of geeks on forums bitching. Idiocy to re-enlist the button. It is fine without it. In fact, it's great without it. Don't like it? Install Windows 7. Believe me, if you keep holding back, you'll find it real hard to switch when Windows 7 is too out of date to use on the generation of hardware you're using at the time.

It's called choice, I use my PC how I want to use it, not how a massive corporation tells me how to, I bought it and I will do as I please, if I want a start button then give me a start button, it's not going to stop everyone else from using the Metro screen.

TheLegendOfMart said,

It's called choice, I use my PC how I want to use it, not how a massive corporation tells me how to, I bought it and I will do as I please, if I want a start button then give me a start button, it's not going to stop everyone else from using the Metro screen.

um, you have a choice through third party apps. Do you not install those on your computer, or do you only exercise the choices officially sanctioned by the aforementioned megacorp? No? Then stop complaining.

First you need know the difference between "The start button" and "The start menu". We are talking about the "Start button". It's UI element which helps people understand how to get the start screen.

As you pointed out not everyone is a geek, thus not everyone knows and uses the windows key on the keyboard and seeing how the other 2 ways to get the start screen are hidden, the start button will help them. In fact I never really understood why they removed it in the first place.

So how will your life dramatic change if they add an single icon in the bottom left of your screen?

Neobond said,
No need to get angry. It'll probably be optional, which is never a bad thing.

I rather see Microsoft stand their grounds on the changes of Windows 8, and work on improving the Modern side of it. Rather then crawling back because of a loudly screaming minority. The more little options added into the OS for every screaming bandwagon just ads into the bloat of the OS, which i thought MS was trying to make smaller.

Shadowzz said,

I rather see Microsoft stand their grounds on the changes of Windows 8, and work on improving the Modern side of it. Rather then crawling back because of a loudly screaming minority. The more little options added into the OS for every screaming bandwagon just ads into the bloat of the OS, which i thought MS was trying to make smaller.

Adding a start button, instead of using the hot corner, isnt really adding bloat. The option is there already, just invisible until you hover your mouse in the corner.

Brony said,

How is it evolution?
tips : new is not always an evolution or a good thing.

Indeed. Anyone old enough to remember the "New Coke"?
those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Spirit Dave said,
What a stupid idea. Evolution ****es a TINY amount of people off ... go with it and stop backtracking because of a bunch of geeks on forums bitching. Idiocy to re-enlist the button. It is fine without it. In fact, it's great without it. Don't like it? Install Windows 7. Believe me, if you keep holding back, you'll find it real hard to switch when Windows 7 is too out of date to use on the generation of hardware you're using at the time.

The start button and start menu are the future of computing, you need to adapt.

Neobond said,
No need to get angry. It'll probably be optional, which is never a bad thing.

In fact, the history of Microsoft has always been to add NEW controls in addition to all of the legacy controls of the past, thus allowing users to continue to use the computer they way they have grown accustomed to while simultaneously becoming slowly acclimated to new controls, ideas, and paradigms.

I'd go so far as to argue this is one of the key reasons (legacy support for applications and usability) why Microsoft won the desktop operating system war so long ago.

Abandoning this mindset was unconscionable and they'll continue paying the price for this for years to come.

I never understood the obsession with the removal of the Start Button. If it's only going to bring up the Start Screen then it makes no meaningful difference, except to people who use Windows 8 for the first time. As soon as you learn about the hot-corners its absence is irrelevant.

That said, it makes sense to bring it back if Microsoft can alleviate some of the criticism.

theyarecomingforyou said,
I never understood the obsession with the removal of the Start Button. If it's only going to bring up the Start Screen then it makes no meaningful difference, except to people who use Windows 8 for the first time. As soon as you learn about the hot-corners its absence is irrelevant.

That said, it makes sense to bring it back if Microsoft can alleviate some of the criticism.

i never understood why they brought in the start menu to begin with was fine without it in win 3.x

theyarecomingforyou said,
As soon as you learn about the hot-corners its absence is irrelevant.

99% of computer users have no idea why there would even be something like INVISIBLE "hot corner" controls for their desktop computer.

They would have been a fine ADDITIONAL control element for touch-based machines, etc., but to remove all of the VISUAL cues in a GRAPHIC User Interface was the unbelievably bad New Coke-level decision with Windows 8.

All MS needed to do to avoid costing themselves and their partners billions in lost sales to date would have been:

Boot to Desktop option for non-touch enabled PCs (you know 99.9999% of the MS marketshare).

Start Button on the taskbar, brings up Start Screen (with a windowed vs. full screen option for people with monitors larger than 1200 wide or so).

Auto-hide options for the invisible GUI gadgets (hidden in Accessibility settings or something similar) such that touch users would have them hiding by default (the current behavior) while desktop/mouse users had them showing by default (like the current taskbar does).

It wasn't rocket science to fix these things. And I know for a fact MS had top level feedback warning of these problems before the world saw even the first glimpses of Windows 8 in alpha/beta/preview.

MS chose to ignore the very people who had their best interests in mind...and they've paid one helluva price.

If Steve Jobs had been alive, he would have eaten Microsoft's lunch this past year...

YYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tyler R. said,
YYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Really..

Read your PM ;-)

I think the button thing is a good idea for those who still use the start screen. I never really used the start menu much and I occasionally dust off the start screen. I don't use metro/modern apps much so I have no real need to go to the start screen often.

Yes Microsoft and get rid of the stupid hot corners. I'd be happy if they simply added a desktop/non-touch mode and UI elements.

Neobond said,
Yes Microsoft and get rid of the stupid hot corners. I'd be happy if they simply added a desktop/non-touch mode and UI elements.

Never cared for the hot corners and they are a pain to use with more than one monitor.

I have that same problem, including within apps. The other one I hate is auto start of the Windows Phone app when I connect it via USB *FULL SCREEN MADNESS* right there lol

techbeck said,

Never cared for the hot corners and they are a pain to use with more than one monitor.


I have to agree that the hot corners have become a nuisance to me. Especially in desktop apps that have buttons near screen corners. Even in IE10, I run the mouse to the top left to click the Back button and find it covered by the last open app.

Neobond said,
I have that same problem, including within apps. The other one I hate is auto start of the Windows Phone app when I connect it via USB *FULL SCREEN MADNESS* right there lol

Huh, when i connect my 920, all that comes up is Windows Media Player
xpxp2002 said,

I have to agree that the hot corners have become a nuisance to me. Especially in desktop apps that have buttons near screen corners. Even in IE10, I run the mouse to the top left to click the Back button and find it covered by the last open app.

Huh, there's a good 10 pixels between the top of the button of back and the hotcorner.
I get it when using the top left corner doubleclick to close windows sometimes though.

Personally i like the hotbars, they give you more options with less clicking (more mousemovements though)
One of the few things i think improved over windows 8 is the things you can do by your mouse with less clicks then previous Windows'. But thats just me, I seem alone in liking the keyboard/mouse improvements Win8 has brought.

Honestly, the hotcorners seems like an idea agreed upon after not being able to come up with something better. That pretty much sums up a lot of what happens with Microsoft really; they get an idea of what they want to do, but don't iron out the details until later. In the meantime, we get stuck with the unfinished mess, and rely on third parties like Stardock to fill these gaps.

Thankfully, companies and third party devs have the ability to offer these customizations. Though, it would be nice if Windows was a lot more customizable by default, but that's probably asking for too much.

Neobond said,
Yes Microsoft and get rid of the stupid hot corners. I'd be happy if they simply added a desktop/non-touch mode and UI elements.
This. I welcome the addition of a touch-optimized UI in Windows 8, just keep it out of the user experience for mouse and keyboard users.

Start button that will bring up the metro start screen. Not the old start menu. Currently there is a hot spot for this but would be cool if it was visible. May help users adapt.

I think they also need a better way to navigate between metro/modern/whatever apps and desktop apps.

At the moment the 'metro' taskbar only shows metro apps, and the desktop taskbar only shows desktop apps. Some way to unify these would make the metro apps a lot more useful to primarily desktop users.

It is a little odd that they don't show it, but then you'd switch to Metro from the legacy taskbar.

Although I'm sure the desktop task switcher shows each metro app, so the user journey is a little muddled already.

techbeck said,
Currently there is a hot spot for this but would be cool if it was visible. May help users adapt.

Precisely. One of my key criticisms is that Windows 8 has INVISIBLE controls on its main start screen, which runs counter to 30+ years of best practices for a GUI.

Desktop home and business users surely would have been able to get used to the Start Screen if it had just been presented as a replacement for the start menu, as long as they could see things to click on and try out.

Having invisible controls on the first screen they see created too many usability hurdles for the 99% of home and business users who won't ever use a touch screen with the desktop and aren't computer literate to the level that we here on Neowin are.

Those who warned MS internally about these issues have been proven right, of course. If MS can fix this and the boot to desktop issue in time for a release this summer/fall, they will stem the tide of defection and deferral in time for this holiday sales season and next year's corporate buying wave.

If I have the ability to directly boot on the "Desktop" and they bring back the "Start" button on the desktop, I will re-install Windows 8.

ZeroFearX said,
If I have the ability to directly boot on the "Desktop" and they bring back the "Start" button on the desktop, I will re-install Windows 8.

we dont know for sure what the start button would do. if it takes you to start screen then there is no point

Shadowzz said,
If thats the only reason not to use Windows 8...

I will welcome the change. Definitely a good move where we hit solid buttons rather than clicking invisibility.

Shadowzz said,
If thats the only reason not to use Windows 8...

Hey if thats all it takes give the consumers what they want! I remember reading a blog post about all the Windows 8 feedback they got was going into Windows Blue so if this makes it better for people coming from Windows 7 or people simply like the start button (tbh I kinda miss the old guy ) then let it resurrect from the dead!

If it wasn't for Start8 (the fact that it brings back the start menu, not for a brand) I would still be using Windows 7.

ZeroFearX said,
If I have the ability to directly boot on the "Desktop" and they bring back the "Start" button on the desktop, I will re-install Windows 8.

You have the ability to do this today. In fact this capability has been there since day one. What's stopping you?

ingramator said,

Hey if thats all it takes give the consumers what they want! I remember reading a blog post about all the Windows 8 feedback they got was going into Windows Blue so if this makes it better for people coming from Windows 7 or people simply like the start button (tbh I kinda miss the old guy ) then let it resurrect from the dead!


I'm all in for choice, I do understand tho that Windows 8's choices where quite limited. Mainly cause of a new developing platform. They took 5-6 years for Vista, only 2-3 for Windows 8/RT. While the change is bigger i think, at least the directional change MS is taking is allot bigger.

And yeah as long as its constructive feedback its all fine. But 1 feature shouldnt be a reason to not use an OS thats superior to its predesessor in every possible way.

Windows 8 gets burned into the ground for its appearances. While Windows is still as customizeable as Windows 7 or any other Windows for that matter. (I do wish Active Desktop saw a return though).
5 minutes on the internet and you can have a rotating 3d desktop, wobbly windows, burning away windows on closing. Or any other of the Compiz 'goodness' you find on Linux.

Hokgiarto Saliem said,
And they have fixed the cleartype / grey scale antialiasing like in Windows 7 with IE 8.

The later IE versions do it better, but Windows font rendering in general is terrible...

Shadowzz said,

I'm all in for choice, I do understand tho that Windows 8's choices where quite limited. Mainly cause of a new developing platform. They took 5-6 years for Vista, only 2-3 for Windows 8/RT. While the change is bigger i think, at least the directional change MS is taking is allot bigger.

And yeah as long as its constructive feedback its all fine. But 1 feature shouldnt be a reason to not use an OS thats superior to its predesessor in every possible way.

Windows 8 gets burned into the ground for its appearances. While Windows is still as customizeable as Windows 7 or any other Windows for that matter. (I do wish Active Desktop saw a return though).
5 minutes on the internet and you can have a rotating 3d desktop, wobbly windows, burning away windows on closing. Or any other of the Compiz 'goodness' you find on Linux.

+1 Agreed!

Shadowzz said,
If thats the only reason not to use Windows 8...

Not that I care for it but what he said was that he would if the option is added.
Try again Sam...

ZeroFearX said,
If I have the ability to directly boot on the "Desktop" and they bring back the "Start" button on the desktop, I will re-install Windows 8.
Same here!

ZeroFearX said,
If I have the ability to directly boot on the "Desktop" and they bring back the "Start" button on the desktop, I will re-install Windows 8.
You must don't know how to use a PC, because my Windows 8 has Start Button and a Start Menu, just like its been in every version of Windows since Windows 95/NT.

Start8 takes care of both of those issues, allows you to boot right to the desktop and brings back the start menu and start button =) I LOVE IT!!! Best $5 I ever spent.