Samsung to offer its own alternative to the Windows 8 Start Screen

Seventeen years after its introduction in Windows 95, the Start Button and Start Menu is gone, replaced with Microsoft’s current technological marmite; the Start Screen. If you hate it, it’s here to stay. If you love it, well you don’t have to worry.


Samsung's S Launcher

Samsung has followed Start8, from Stardock, in adding their own Start Menu to Windows 8. First seen back in August, the ‘S Launcher’ will be available as a download when the latest series of Windows 8 devices hit the shelves. The final product won’t be included when the products ship.

While not as polished as Stardock’s Start8, it still gives users the familiar interface that the Start Menu has offered since Windows XP. Documents, Pictures, Computer and even quick access to Shutdown are all available in one handy package. It’s more of a gadget than a Start Menu, adding an Apple-esque dock to the desktop. Let’s hope the patent wars don’t bleed into the desktop world!


Stardock's Start8

Microsoft is adamant that the Start Button and Start Menu are gone and the Start Screen is the interface to move Windows into the touch-centric world of tablets, hybrids and touch enabled monitors.

Source and Image: Laptop Mag

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I can understand people wanting a start menu, at first I wanted it as well. I wanted an option that would provide users with a desktop version of the metro interface. However I've come to really enjoy the startscreen on a non-touch laptop. At this point I don't want to go back to the desktop and the start menu.

In my mind it is similar t othe DOS to Windows transfer. I remember my first computer experience on WIndows 3.1. My uncle was telling me about how DOS was much better. How it allowed users much more freedom in what they wanted to do. In his mind the new interfaced only slowed down productivity. People often react negative towards change, at first they won't be able to see the upside and put things in perspective.

HOWEVER this Samsung t*rd is NOT the solution. It isnt just ugly on its own, it goes against the entire idea of Modern UI. With its rounded design and see through bubblegum look it doesn't belong on a modern Windows. Start8 does looks like it is a good middle road for people who dont want to actually embrace the real Windows 8 (only the 'desktop' mode that basically functions like a DOS mode in Windows 95, my uncle would be jealous).

I'm going to make this easy for the n00bs who can't get used to the start screen, Yes the old classic menu had some perks and having both old and new would be a benefit..

Screw paying for Start8 for a start! Also screw this bloat..

Just install http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/ Get your start menu back and keep metro (or not u can disable it if you really want with this its a simple tick box thats all)

MrAnalysis said,
I'm going to make this easy for the n00bs who can't get used to the start screen, Yes the old classic menu had some perks and having both old and new would be a benefit..

Screw paying for Start8 for a start! Also screw this bloat..

Just install http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/ Get your start menu back and keep metro (or not u can disable it if you really want with this its a simple tick box thats all)


It's way too classic... Start panel functionality is from XP...

At the moment Start8 is best in terms of look and functionality.

coth said,

It's way too classic... Start panel functionality is from XP...

At the moment Start8 is best in terms of look and functionality.

I take it you got that info from just looking at the screenshot? Because i have it installed and it has the Windows 7 style start menu. You have 3 choices in styles not just the one in the screenshot. It actually works better than Start8 its a fair bit less buggy and its very quick and customizable.

Not actually forced into the Microsoft store, but actually brought to its door, by the pinched ear, while kicking and scraqming!

instead of all of these add ons i really wish microsoft would of given users a choice at install to either use modern or disable it. i assume this samsung app will cost money like start8. ive noticed most of the visual styles for w8 cost $$ too. doesn't make sense considering almost ever theme ive seen and used for w7 was free.

McKay said,
One step closer to Samsung putting Touchwiz on their PC`s :-)

They did on the Series 7 Slate with Windows 7. I hated it for the brief period I owned one and quickly installed Windows 8 Developer Preview which was far more usable.

I didn't say I didn't like Win8, because I do. I just don't being forced into the Microsoft store each time I start, and I really hate the looks of the Fisher Price Operating System (Win8). At least third party apps like Start8 give me another alternative, and looks much better. Also Start8 is the best of that kind of app, (I have tried them all).

bigbubba said,
I didn't say I didn't like Win8, because I do. I just don't being forced into the Microsoft store each time I start, and I really hate the looks of the Fisher Price Operating System (Win8). At least third party apps like Start8 give me another alternative, and looks much better. Also Start8 is the best of that kind of app, (I have tried them all).

Uh, you're never forced into the store. Unless you consider seeing the icon to being forced?

bigbubba said,
Hey Fanboyz, I heard that Microsoft had a law suit against it by Fischer Price.

Countersuit by Duplo. Seriously though, I like it.

There are already 10 similar products on the web. Samsung is no 11. And also there is also an attempt to port Windows 7 explorer to Windows 8 ( wich seems to work with few minor glitches ).
By far, my favourite is Classic Shell menu.

eiffel_g said,
There are already 10 similar products on the web. Samsung is no 11. And also there is also an attempt to port Windows 7 explorer to Windows 8 ( wich seems to work with few minor glitches ).
By far, my favourite is Classic Shell menu.

actually win7 explorer was ported over a loooong time ago
google it

I have some really good advice for everyone:

For those of you who like the Windows 8 start screen, I suggest you carry on using it. If however you like Windows 8 but prefer the older style start menu, install Stardocks Start 8. Those of you who have Samsung machines and like the idea of having something from Samsung, or have another machine from a different vendor and quite like the look of the Samsung offering, I suggest you use that.

so.....why all the arguing? love it, we get given choice and people moan when others use something different to themselves. WE ARE BORG! lol

glen8 said,
I have some really good advice for everyone:

For those of you who like the Windows 8 start screen, I suggest you carry on using it. If however you like Windows 8 but prefer the older style start menu, install Stardocks Start 8. Those of you who have Samsung machines and like the idea of having something from Samsung, or have another machine from a different vendor and quite like the look of the Samsung offering, I suggest you use that.

so.....why all the arguing? love it, we get given choice and people moan when others use something different to themselves. WE ARE BORG! lol

qft

and your comment points out the problem we have..
what people are saying and why.
If i liked the major new changes i wouldn't be going out of my way
to run around and desperately try and discredit win8 haters.

and the last thing you said was "we get given choice"
EXACTLY there is no choice.. when M$ could have added one into the OS
to help transition people over to some of the major new changes in Win 8.

I thought the whole purpose of Windows 8 was consistency across every device? Customizations are always good but every user should get the same out of the box experience on a Windows device.

Sadelwo said,
I thought the whole purpose of Windows 8 was consistency across every device? Customizations are always good but every user should get the same out of the box experience on a Windows device.

they do..

you have to go and download and THEN install it.

Bought it. Love it. I'm not a 3rd grade simpleton that loves colored blocks and crappy "Metro" apps on my computer. I use my computer for business, not as a simple media streamer or tablet, which it is not meant to be. Windows 8 without Start8 or equivilant software is worthless to me.

I'm so glad there's software like this. If I ever do install Windows 8, booting directly to the desktop, and getting back the start menu are the first things I'll want to do.

NeoPogo said,
There is Samsung making crap up and going against Microsoft! BOYCOTT SAMSUNG!

Go out, drink a beer and relax....... life is short...........

let the idiots and retards keep using what they want... Both of you LoL
Want to get rid of this f*cking mac os for good.

Mac OS is better than you! LOL

iguanas said,
let the idiots and retards keep using what they want... Both of you LoL
Want to get rid of this f*cking mac os for good.

I would use Start8 to launch desktop apps w/out having to go to the Start screen, but I don't have a problem with Metro either.

A340600 said,
I would use Start8 to launch desktop apps w/out having to go to the Start screen, but I don't have a problem with Metro either.

Same stand.

Classic Shell ... the original Start Menu restorer, and the best. Fully customisable and totally free!
http://classicshell.sf.net/

Start8 looks OK, but not nearly as customisable, and not available for free. This new choice
from Samsung, with a launcher dock at the top of the screen, and the menu in the middle
is a break from the norm ... but how long before it stops being free like Start8?

PERSONALY !... just made the switch to win 8 to see using rtm from my technet ... Stardock Start 8 worth the 5 $ ..... simple and easy ... pc more or less just like win 7 and still can flick to the modern ui and look at windows store install and play some free games and when done move to hot corner and close open apps and go back to desktop mode with start menu just :like before.....

ONLY 1 THING thou tried to install kaspersky av 2013 trial after reboot it hangs but can say system restore works lol

Start8 fits in perfectly with Windows 8. If a person didn't know any better, they would think it is a part of Windows. It even allows you to switch to the Modern UI way of things in an instant giving you the best of both worlds; something which Microsoft gave lame excuses for!

This Samsung launcher on the other hand is downright horrible to look at.

if tools like start8 and this give users the productivity they are used to using
then its a good thing,its not "bloat ware" if its useful to a end-user.

but the last thing we need is to have the market flooded with start-menu app's.
MS could do the right thing and offer there own add-on. but as always the beta forums
were full of people saying if you dont like it its just tough luck. not exactly helpful
to users who have a hard time adapting to new things.

redman68 said,
And watch your experience diminish !!!!!!

By not using useless and lacking apps made for tablets? Man, I'm using Win8 + Start8, I haven't seen this horrible Start Screen for weeks, and I'm missing nothing, trust me.

It is sad that we have to install 3rd party software to get start menu heh... Microsoft really wants to bring us to touchscreen era while 90% of us still use mouse and keyboard on our PCs... Microsoft, one does not simply hit the ground running >.>

What can be defined as "crapware" is questionable given Microsoft has completely lost understanding of usability as evident with the Start screen and tries to market it as "better" and "improved".

MsftGaurav said,
What can be defined as "crapware" is questionable given Microsoft has completely lost understanding of usability as evident with the Start screen and tries to market it as "better" and "improved".

Isn't it odd that many of us find the Start screen completely usable then? Nothing about a screen of large clickable squares can reasonably be deemed unusable. I'm pretty sure 'usability' wasn't the word you meant. Perhaps you meant to convey that you merely dislike the Start screen.

Calum said,

Isn't it odd that many of us find the Start screen completely usable then? Nothing about a screen of large clickable squares can reasonably be deemed unusable. I'm pretty sure 'usability' wasn't the word you meant. Perhaps you meant to convey that you merely dislike the Start screen.

And is not even more odd that a lot of "regular", "average" people completely dislike it? One size does not fit all..... We are not in North Korea.....

Calum said,

Isn't it odd that many of us find the Start screen completely usable then? Nothing about a screen of large clickable squares can reasonably be deemed unusable. I'm pretty sure 'usability' wasn't the word you meant. Perhaps you meant to convey that you merely dislike the Start screen.

wow you again ?
this is the second comment you made here in a row where your telling someone what they meant to say lol

large squares ?
Over top of my custom made OSD sensor panel ? what ?
my custom created quick launch ?
I don't know about anyone else but my custom UI enhancements
do NOT need to be blocked / deleted and removed by Redmond
with out my permission.

I am more qualified than Microsoft to know what i like period.

sooo uhh what is is i meant to say ? lol

I am Not PCyr said,

wow you again ?
this is the second comment you made here in a row where your telling someone what they meant to say lol

large squares ?
Over top of my custom made OSD sensor panel ? what ?
my custom created quick launch ?
I don't know about anyone else but my custom UI enhancements
do NOT need to be blocked / deleted and removed by Redmond
with out my permission.

I am more qualified than Microsoft to know what i like period.

sooo uhh what is is i meant to say ? lol


Your comment doesn't even reference anything said on this thread. Did you read my comment? We were talking about whether it was usable; he said it wasn't, so I pointed out to him that it is. There's a difference between something not being usable and something not being liked.

And so we get fragmentation - many different third party implementations, because many users (not you, Win8 fanboys, but many others) wanted a start button option on the desktop because it improved their productivity, and said so throughout the beta cycle but Microsoft stubbornly wouldn't provide it.

gb8080 said,
And so we get fragmentation - many different third party implementations, because many users (not you, Win8 fanboys, but many others) wanted a start button option on the desktop because it improved their productivity, and said so throughout the beta cycle but Microsoft stubbornly wouldn't provide it.

This is a good way to show Microsoft that it was a bad decision to remove the startmenu complete. I'm sure in Windows 9 its back in any form.

gb8080 said,
And so we get fragmentation - many different third party implementations, because many users (not you, Win8 fanboys, but many others) wanted a start button option on the desktop because it improved their productivity, and said so throughout the beta cycle but Microsoft stubbornly wouldn't provide it.

This is not fragmentation. If I have photoshop installed and you do not, is that fragmentation? Fragmentation is when you cannot reliably install software on one version of the OS and not be sure it will work because of software differences between vendors. If you were to download software from the Win8 store and it did not run because the developer tested with one set of APIs, but your computer had different APIs, that would be fragmentation. A computer my parents have has a bar at the top of the desktop that duplicates the start screen. My computers do not have this. Is that fragmentation? No, it is not, because I can run office, photoshop, or any of the other programs on their computer or mine, without any difference. The Wndows API is the same, it is just a difference in the pre-installed software.

Exactly. I don't understand why those who are so pro Windows 8 fail to understand why many people dislike the new Start Screen. I actually don't HATE the new start screen however there is one simple issue with it which is driving me up the wall - being forced into Metro versions of web browsers rather than being allowed to manually select whether it takes you to the metro or desktop version. Chrome specifically. Unless they've fixed it since I tried it in the last few weeks, I simply could not find a way to make Chrome launch the desktop version of the application when I loaded it from the start screen...

That and I was so irritated that Microsoft bundled advertising into built-in applications such as the weather application.. in fact I was so incensed by that, it was enough to make me trash Windows 8 and go back to Windows 7 as soon as I read about it.

Chicane-UK said,
Exactly. I don't understand why those who are so pro Windows 8 fail to understand why many people dislike the new Start Screen. I actually don't HATE the new start screen however there is one simple issue with it which is driving me up the wall - being forced into Metro versions of web browsers rather than being allowed to manually select whether it takes you to the metro or desktop version. Chrome specifically. Unless they've fixed it since I tried it in the last few weeks, I simply could not find a way to make Chrome launch the desktop version of the application when I loaded it from the start screen...

That and I was so irritated that Microsoft bundled advertising into built-in applications such as the weather application.. in fact I was so incensed by that, it was enough to make me trash Windows 8 and go back to Windows 7 as soon as I read about it.

The issue here though is you lot seeing Metro as just a start menu screen. It isn't. Windows 8 is a new computing platform, a metro platform. The changes in Windows 8 that are not related to Metro are a very small percentage of the whole. If you don't want Metro, then you don't want the majority of Windows 8. Most of the non-Metro UI improvements can be replicated with third party freeware/powertoys on Windows 7.

Also you are not forced into metro web browsers at all, far from it. If you're IN Metro and click on a browser tile, it's not unreasonable to assume you wan't to stay in metro which is what it does. Otherwise, why wouldn't you have clicked the pinned icon on the taskbar instead? Also if it bothers you THAT much, there is an option in IE to always open on the desktop. If Google doesn't offer that option in their app, that's hardly Microsoft's fault.

Lastly, the applications are not "built in". They are bundled. They are separate entities created by a different team, no different to Windows Live Messenger and that has adverts. Don't want adverts? Then pay for alternative apps. That said, I would like it if they gave you an option to pay a pound or two to remove the ads.

Chicane-UK said,
Exactly. I don't understand why those who are so pro Windows 8 fail to understand why many people dislike the new Start Screen. I actually don't HATE the new start screen however there is one simple issue with it which is driving me up the wall - being forced into Metro versions of web browsers rather than being allowed to manually select whether it takes you to the metro or desktop version. Chrome specifically. Unless they've fixed it since I tried it in the last few weeks, I simply could not find a way to make Chrome launch the desktop version of the application when I loaded it from the start screen...

That and I was so irritated that Microsoft bundled advertising into built-in applications such as the weather application.. in fact I was so incensed by that, it was enough to make me trash Windows 8 and go back to Windows 7 as soon as I read about it.

Browsers function uniquely in the start screen. Whatever browser you have set as default will launch the Metro version from the start screen for some reason. I just have Chrome pinned to my taskbar and is pretty much open 100% of the time anyways so it doesn't bother me.

I don't bother with Metro apps on my desktop other than one: Trackage. Package tracker that syncs between PCs automatically. It just shows the tracking status quickly and then I close it.

TCLN Ryster said,

The issue here though is you lot seeing Metro as just a start menu screen. It isn't. Windows 8 is a new computing platform, a metro platform. The changes in Windows 8 that are not related to Metro are a very small percentage of the whole. If you don't want Metro, then you don't want the majority of Windows 8. Most of the non-Metro UI improvements can be replicated with third party freeware/powertoys on Windows 7.

Also you are not forced into metro web browsers at all, far from it. If you're IN Metro and click on a browser tile, it's not unreasonable to assume you wan't to stay in metro which is what it does. Otherwise, why wouldn't you have clicked the pinned icon on the taskbar instead? Also if it bothers you THAT much, there is an option in IE to always open on the desktop. If Google doesn't offer that option in their app, that's hardly Microsoft's fault.

Lastly, the applications are not "built in". They are bundled. They are separate entities created by a different team, no different to Windows Live Messenger and that has adverts. Don't want adverts? Then pay for alternative apps. That said, I would like it if they gave you an option to pay a pound or two to remove the ads.

But you have no choice but to enter "Metro" to load up applications... it's not like there is an alternative here. If you want to load programs you need to load up the Start Screen and you're then into Metro..

And I simply can't accept the reasoning for the advertising in, for example, the Weather app. It ships, from Microsoft, with the OS - out of the box. I don't care if it came from some obscure skunk-works team working in the shadiest corner of an office somewhere in Redmond - it's still an app that comes out of the box and to put adverts in it is a poor show. You are paying for the operating system. I don't think you should pay and still expect to receive adverts. I can tell what I say will have no sway with your viewpoint and I don't think anything you say will sway mine - we'll have to agree to disagree on this one!

For me it looks great. But I don't switch to an OS where I have to change everything with third party tools. I feel me like in Windows 98 where I have to tweak and patch my system. Nope, without me.

thekim said,
For me it looks great. But I don't switch to an OS where I have to change everything with third party tools. I feel me like in Windows 98 where I have to tweak and patch my system. Nope, without me.

You don't have to change anything with third-party tools in Windows 8.

Calum said,

You don't have to change anything with third-party tools in Windows 8.

But I don't agree with the windows defaults. So I had to.

thekim said,

But I don't agree with the windows defaults. So I had to.

You don't have to, in order for Windows to work totally fine, which is what your comment implied and which is what I was getting at. You choose to because you don't like what Windows 8 offers.

That's just like someone saying they had to engineer a fridge onto the bottom of a microwave because they didn't like that the microwave came with no fridge. They didn't have to, as the microwave worked totally fine for its purpose; they chose to because they oddly believed that the microwave should come with a fridge attached.

Calum said,

You don't have to, in order for Windows to work totally fine, which is what your comment implied and which is what I was getting at. You choose to because you don't like what Windows 8 offers.

That's just like someone saying they had to engineer a fridge onto the bottom of a microwave because they didn't like that the microwave came with no fridge. They didn't have to, as the microwave worked totally fine for its purpose; they chose to because they oddly believed that the microwave should come with a fridge attached.

I don't agree that Windows 8 works "totally fine".

Jarrichvdv said,
Why doesn't Microsoft block this kind of software?
Why should they? Customizations have always been available on Windows - shell replacements, DLLs to alter themes, etc. Some people do find the legacy method to start apps better. I, for one, would be happy to recommend such alternatives if friends/family dislike the new start menu.

Jarrichvdv said,
Why doesn't Microsoft block this kind of software?
How would they, and why should they?

It would be blocked on Windows RT, since it isn't a Windows 8 style app. But Windows 8 itself isn't locked down on the desktop, at all, and I imagine a lot of people will want this.

Jarrichvdv said,
Why doesn't Microsoft block this kind of software?

I don't think they care about what Samsung does, that thing has to be clicked on with the mouse doesn't it? I doubt it takes control of your windows key etc, so anytime anyone hits the winkey they'll get the default start screen. Now stuff like Start8 and so on, eh, user choice, if you want to stick with the old then that's up to you.

Jarrichvdv said,
Why doesn't Microsoft block this kind of software?

They don't want to get sued by Apple for copying the blocking of software users might find useful

Jarrichvdv said,
Why doesn't Microsoft block this kind of software?

They don't and never have... In fact that is the big 'lie' of Windows 8 that people are 'forced' to do anything or need software like StarDock's Start Menu (sorry Neowin).

You can add a simple item to the task scheduler to logon directly the desktop and have your Address bar and use the cascading menus of a toolbar for your shortcuts and have a Win7/Win95 experience without buying or doing anything special.

Microsoft also allows for custom 'shells' to be installed and used, which people forget to mention. There were people that were so hung up on Program manager, that back in the Win95 days, there were ways to get the Win3.1 program manager set as the Shell or even a command prompt as the shell.


In either case, anyone that cannot move on to the Start Screen and accept it as 'bigger more functional' Start Menu, that loses NO fucntionality. It only looks different and once people 'accept' the change will find it is a better Start Menu than what they are used to on Windows 7.

(People always do this, don't understand so they hate the new stuff. This happened with Win3.1 new File Manager, Win95's Explorer, WinXP Start Menu, and the new Vista Start menu that is evolved in Win7. There are from every one of these timelines 3rd party software and 'tricks' to give people back the previous version. After a couple of years they finally 'get it' and forget they once hated the Start Menu that they are now wanting 'back'.

Why doesn't Microsoft give users the option to choose between the traditional and Metro Start menus, and disable one or the other (or the whole Metro interface)? I don't like how the Start menu in Windows 8 takes up the whole screen. Start8 looks good - worth the money.

myxomatosis said,

"I don't like it, block it"


It's not a case of not liking it, it's a case of Samsung attempting to give the effect to the average user that the old Start Menu still exists and is still used in the same way, which could cause even more confusion and is dangerous.

68k said,
Why doesn't Microsoft give users the option to choose between the traditional and Metro Start menus, and disable one or the other (or the whole Metro interface)? I don't like how the Start menu in Windows 8 takes up the whole screen. Start8 looks good - worth the money.

Sorry, but that is just stupid. If you give people the option to disable Metro entirely, you're essentially giving them the option to disable Windows 8. The changes to the desktop are a very very small element of the whole of Windows 8, and if that's all you want then just use Windows 7 and install some freeware stuff to replicate those features.

And the fact that you see the Metro interface as just a "Start menu" clearly demonstrates you haven't graspect what Metro (and Windows 8) actually is.

All that being said, I do understand there will be those that want to primarily use the desktop for most of the time (at least until the Metro platform as matured), and I can see how a start menu would assist those people. As such I have nothing against tools like this. I just see no need for it personally and would rather be free of additional bloat on my PC for the sake of a few milliseconds of time.

Edited by Ryster, Oct 16 2012, 12:09pm :

TCLN Ryster said,

Sorry, but that is just stupid. If you give people the option to disable Metro entirely, you're essentially giving them the option to disable Windows 8. The changes to the desktop are a very very small element of the whole of Windows 8, and if that's all you want then just use Windows 7 and install some freeware stuff to replicate those features.

And the fact that you see the Metro interface as just a "Start menu" clearly demonstrates you haven't graspect what Metro (and Windows 8) actually is.

All that being said, I do understand there will be those that want to primarily use the desktop for most of the time (at least until the Metro platform as matured), and I can see how a start menu would assist those people. As such I have nothing against tools like this. I just see no need for it personally and would rather be free of additional bloat on my PC for the sake of a few milliseconds of time.

Saying that allowing people to disable the Start Screen disable Windows 8 is absurd; there are so many improvements "under the hood" that the Start menu is just a small part of what is new in W8. On the other hand it seems to be the one that bother a lot of potential buyers.

It's not really bloatware for the sake of bloat, it actually gives people a more familiar environment if they want it. Samsung could also just do what Microsoft did and force everyone to learn the new interface.

brent3000 said,
and the bloatware is back...

It's to stop people like my Nan getting confused when her current PC dies and it has to be replaced with a Windows 8 one.

brent3000 said,
and the bloatware is back...

Its a productivity tool, unless you want to class Office as Bloatware? or tools like tweakui?

thealexweb said,

It's to stop people like my Nan getting confused when her current PC dies and it has to be replaced with a Windows 8 one.

In an example EXACTLY like you describe, I recently had to loan a Win8 laptop to a family member that does facebook and a few things. They had never seen Windows 8, nor even was aware a new version of Windows was around.

I handed her the laptop (early 70s female) and before I got back to explain how to use the corners she was getting along perfectly with it, and had NO QUESTIONS, and this is without any of the introduction video tutorials either.

This lovely person considers Hotmail or Facebook asking for their password complicated, yet was flipping around Apps on Windows 8, and had even found a game and installed it and was playing it after checking her facebook and email in under 10 minutes.

So for these people, everyone is creating expectations of problems that just aren't real. The people that are HAVING a problem with Windows 8 are the tech minded people that WILL NOT LET GO of the old metaphor and move their thinking to accept the new Start Screen as JUST A LARGER version of the Start menu.

In our Lab testing with novice and new users, we have yet to have one person have an issue, let alone want to go back to the old UI. (Measured productivity was up 20% on full time usage employees as well, in traditional desktop and mixed Modern/Metro Apps.)


thealexweb said,

It's to stop people like my Nan getting confused when her current PC dies and it has to be replaced with a Windows 8 one.

And will your Nan know how to uninstall it when she realises that she doesn't want it or gets confused by the fact that the familiar-looking menu doesn't appear where she expects it to appear?

Regardless of whether a few people might find this usefull, the fact that it comes preinstalled makes it crapware.

jakem1 said,

And will your Nan know how to uninstall it when she realises that she doesn't want it or gets confused by the fact that the familiar-looking menu doesn't appear where she expects it to appear?

Regardless of whether a few people might find this usefull, the fact that it comes preinstalled makes it crapware.

Well the differences between this and the Win7 start menu are tiny compared to Win8, if she got a Win8 PC she'd probably take it upon herself to take it back and report it broken.

thealexweb said,

It's to stop people like my Nan getting confused when her current PC dies and it has to be replaced with a Windows 8 one.


If your nan becomes confused because of changes like this, the problem isn't Microsoft's; the problem is how your nan adapts to changes in interfaces, and like many "average" users, she will need to try harder to understand such changes. These changes shouldn't be hard to adapt to, for anyone.

Calum said,

If your nan becomes confused because of changes like this, the problem isn't Microsoft's; the problem is how your nan adapts to changes in interfaces, and like many "average" users, she will need to try harder to understand such changes. These changes shouldn't be hard to adapt to, for anyone.

Indeed, but moaners will always moan. About anything and everything.

thealexweb said,

It's to stop people like my Nan getting confused when her current PC dies and it has to be replaced with a Windows 8 one.


Your nan will probably adapt faster than you give her credit for and appreciate the new system more.
Every non-tech person I demo for says, why couldn't they have built it that way in the first place.

deadonthefloor said,

Your nan will probably adapt faster than you give her credit for and appreciate the new system more.
Every non-tech person I demo for says, why couldn't they have built it that way in the first place.

She reached the point where existing tasks are fine, see can use Firefox and Thunderbird fine but any learning curve is too much, she moved from Sky to Sky HD which had a different UI and she couldn't use it

thealexweb said,

[. . .] she moved from Sky to Sky HD which had a different UI and she couldn't use it

Then, with all due respect, you have to ask, . . . is she even trying?

It seems to me that a lot of these people can actually learn how to use new software, quite easily, if they actually try. Just like they had to actually learn how to drive, when it came to that. They didn't just sit in front of the steering wheel and moan that the car manufacturers should have made things easier for them. If she can learn to drive or learn how to do other things, she can surely learn how to operate a new computing interface that's pretty simple (and both Windows 8 and the new Sky UI are simple, even to someone who isn't a "power user.").

Calum said,

Then, with all due respect, you have to ask, . . . is she even trying?

It seems to me that a lot of these people can actually learn how to use new software, quite easily, if they actually try. Just like they had to actually learn how to drive, when it came to that. They didn't just sit in front of the steering wheel and moan that the car manufacturers should have made things easier for them. If she can learn to drive or learn how to do other things, she can surely learn how to operate a new computing interface that's pretty simple (and both Windows 8 and the new Sky UI are simple, even to someone who isn't a "power user.").

She is trying, she's reached the point where new tasks are too much, any existing task is fine however, the brain works in mysterious ways.

ingramator said,
Anyone who installs this crapware is an idiot.

Careful, some of that crapware is made by Neowin's parent company...

Edited by rfirth, Oct 16 2012, 9:29am :

ingramator said,
Anyone who installs this crapware is an idiot.

Says who? I use start8 and increases my speed by about 200% compared to start screen.

rfirth said,

Careful, some of that crapware is made by Neowin's parent company...

And even so, it can't actually be called crapware. In fact, it's a utility which will give lot of people peace of mind....

Arceles said,

Says who? I use start8 and increases my speed by about 200% compared to start screen.

Then sadly you are missing something...

Effectively, there is NO difference, as you can pin the same items and use the 'full screen' Start Screen 'easier' than the 'Start Menu' - especially if you are a keyboard user, as the keyboard usability on the new Start Screen is far faster.

It is like this..

Win7 or traditional Start Menu.... WinKey Or click Orb - then type to search, or click click click to get to a program if you aren't into typing, or Arrow key, tab, arrow key Enter Enter Enter to open a program.

Win8 new Start 'Screen'... Winkey or mouse to lower left of screen and click (faster and can be done without looking to 'hit' the button) Then start typing to search or hit Arrow keys to the App and hit Enter. No longer having to dig through folder or the outdated concept of 'menus' that are leftover UI construct and a non-graphical list of words.

In our internal tests, our techs can get around (and these are hard core developers and engineers) about 50% faster in just navigation and accessing applications and information (all traditional Desktop Apps) but from the new Start Screen.

There is just a serious lack of understanding that the new 'Start Screen' loses functionality over the older Start menu, and other than looking different, this is just not true...

thenetavenger said,

Then sadly you are missing something...

Effectively, there is NO difference, as you can pin the same items and use the 'full screen' Start Screen 'easier' than the 'Start Menu' - especially if you are a keyboard user, as the keyboard usability on the new Start Screen is far faster.

It is like this..

Win7 or traditional Start Menu.... WinKey Or click Orb - then type to search, or click click click to get to a program if you aren't into typing, or Arrow key, tab, arrow key Enter Enter Enter to open a program.

Win8 new Start 'Screen'... Winkey or mouse to lower left of screen and click (faster and can be done without looking to 'hit' the button) Then start typing to search or hit Arrow keys to the App and hit Enter. No longer having to dig through folder or the outdated concept of 'menus' that are leftover UI construct and a non-graphical list of words.

In our internal tests, our techs can get around (and these are hard core developers and engineers) about 50% faster in just navigation and accessing applications and information (all traditional Desktop Apps) but from the new Start Screen.

There is just a serious lack of understanding that the new 'Start Screen' loses functionality over the older Start menu, and other than looking different, this is just not true...

Simply nop. I'm FASTER (and I mean it) using my start8 app. Sorry guy, your arguments, while plausible, are just not fast enough for me.

Arceles said,

Says who? I use start8 and increases my speed by about 200% compared to start screen.


How does it increase your speed? The time it takes to launch apps from both Start8 and the official Start screen is the same, and the effort involved is the same. The only difference is that the latter covers the screen. So I'm curious to know how it possibly increases your speed.

Arceles said,

Says who? I use start8 and increases my speed by about 200% compared to start screen.

I bet I can do anythign you think you can do fast on start 8 at LEAST as fast on the start screen

ingramator said,
Anyone who installs this crapware is an idiot.

Went through and liked all the hate and love comments on stardock. Haha

HawkMan said,

I bet I can do anythign you think you can do fast on start 8 at LEAST as fast on the start screen

just try to open My Computer -> left click -> properties in less than 3 seconds.

thenetavenger said,

Then sadly you are missing something...

Effectively, there is NO difference, as you can pin the same items and use the 'full screen' Start Screen 'easier' than the 'Start Menu' - especially if you are a keyboard user, as the keyboard usability on the new Start Screen is far faster.
...(faster and can be done without looking to 'hit' the button) Then start typing to search or hit Arrow keys to the App and hit Enter. No longer having to dig through folder or the outdated concept of 'menus' that are leftover UI construct and a non-graphical list of words.


1st) Jump lists is a serious down. Having them, reduces the amount of programs you need to have on your taskbar. This is important when you usually have 10+ of them opened (Regularly) and launch specific apps, which varies from 2 - 3 each days.

2nd) Search is worse on Windows 8 due to the filtered search. It is unknown to me why didn't they did it like this: You start typing and display the other search result if nothing was found on Apps...

3rd) You do not need to look for the button. You could have always clicked the left corner. For the contrary you need to be less precise than Windows 8, because you had a bigger range to trigger the start menu..

mollick2 said,

Win Key + E.

Are you even trying?


That Opens my PC, not my PC Properties. and even so, If I where to access from there, there are more actions involving in it just to go to system properties, plus I already have to use both hands while with the mouse I only use 1.

Arceles said,


That Opens my PC, not my PC Properties. and even so, If I where to access from there, there are more actions involving in it just to go to system properties, plus I already have to use both hands while with the mouse I only use 1.


Hah another person that never even tried win 8 and is ****ing and moaning. All you have to do is right click on the left corner (or hit Win+X) and click "system" and bam! There's your system properties. It's actually EASIER than it was in Windows 7.

You're all forgetting the main point: just because it is great for you (take your pick, start menu or start screen) does not mean that it's great for everyone. Stop trying to convince one another that you're right and they're wrong, you're wasting your breath like someone trying to convince me that the Start Screen is the best thing since sliced bread.

ingramator said,
Anyone who installs this crapware is an idiot.

I'm not quite sure how you reached that conclusion, but alright. Personally I think that anyone that buys a tablet is an idiot and the majority of people disagree with me, so to each their own.

Intrinsica said,
You're all forgetting the main point: just because it is great for you (take your pick, start menu or start screen) does not mean that it's great for everyone. Stop trying to convince one another that you're right and they're wrong, you're wasting your breath like someone trying to convince me that the Start Screen is the best thing since sliced bread.


I'm not quite sure how you reached that conclusion, but alright. Personally I think that anyone that buys a tablet is an idiot and the majority of people disagree with me, so to each their own.

My biggest frustration is with people like Arceles that didn't even try the new way, they just looked at it, said, "that's stupid" and immediately tried to find some way to make it just like the old way. Even if the new way would actually improve their workflow if they tried to learn how to use it.

Intrinsica said,
You're all forgetting the main point: just because it is great for you (take your pick, start menu or start screen) does not mean that it's great for everyone. Stop trying to convince one another that you're right and they're wrong, you're wasting your breath like someone trying to convince me that the Start Screen is the best thing since sliced bread.

Well Said

ingramator said,
Anyone who installs this crapware is an idiot.

I don't hate the Stardock concept. I"m not installing it, but at least it looks nice, and is completely optional. The Samsung software is just atricious

Arceles said,


That Opens my PC, not my PC Properties. and even so, If I where to access from there, there are more actions involving in it just to go to system properties, plus I already have to use both hands while with the mouse I only use 1.


Windows Key + Pause/Break opens the properties, no need to even use the mouse at all.

Chris Breeden said,

Windows Key + Pause/Break opens the properties, no need to even use the mouse at all.

Beat me to it... You'd be surprised how many people in the IT world don't know this one.

I just pinned/placed all my usual stuff to the desktop so I can have that familiar feel. I love not having to open a browser for maps, email, weather, news, and loads of other things. It's definitely having each foot in a different world at times but I'm used to it and I like it.

Arceles said,

Says who? I use start8 and increases my speed by about 200% compared to start screen.

Just wondering how old are the people who can't adapt to new things. So how old are you? For statistics.

B itches please:

WinKey + x + F = Programs and Features
WinKey + x + b = Mobility Center
WinKey + x + v = Event Viewer
WinKey + x + y = System
WinKey + x + m = Device Manager
WinKey + x + k = Disk Management
WinKey + x + g = Computer Management
WinKey + x + c = Command Prompt
WinKey + x + A = Command Prompt with Admin Privileges
WinKey + x + t = Task Manager
WinKey + x + p = Control Panel
WinKey + x + e = File Explorer
WinKey + x + s = Search
WinKey + x + r = Run
WinKey + x + d = Desktop.

Jose_49 said,
B itches please:

WinKey + x + F = Programs and Features
WinKey + x + b = Mobility Center
WinKey + x + v = Event Viewer
WinKey + x + y = System
WinKey + x + m = Device Manager
WinKey + x + k = Disk Management
WinKey + x + g = Computer Management
WinKey + x + c = Command Prompt
WinKey + x + A = Command Prompt with Admin Privileges
WinKey + x + t = Task Manager
WinKey + x + p = Control Panel
WinKey + x + e = File Explorer
WinKey + x + s = Search
WinKey + x + r = Run
WinKey + x + d = Desktop.

That's great but the average user doesn't even know what CTRL+ C does

warwagon said,

That's great but the average user doesn't even know what CTRL+ C does

And the average user doesn't need to access any of those things anyways (well maybe apart from desktop and explorer).

warwagon said,

That's great but the average user doesn't even know what CTRL+ C does


Well, isn't that the "average user's" fault then? They should learn how the operating system works before trying to use it.

The keyboard shortcuts are there to make getting to certain items quicker; thus, as long as the keyboard shortcuts are kept, people shouldn't complain that Microsoft has ensured it takes a couple of milliseconds or a couple of seconds longer to get to certain items with the mouse, because those users aren't utilising the convenience that Microsoft has implemented (the keyboard shortcuts).

Arceles said,

just try to open My Computer -> left click -> properties in less than 3 seconds.

AHAHAHA. I assume you meant right click to get to system view? It's EASIER IN WINDOWS 8. Right click bottom left corner and click System. 2 clicks vs 3.

less than 2 seconds required.

EDIT: I see someone already posted that and Arceles is yet to reply. I'd like to think he is reevaluating his hate for Windows 8 but he probably is just mad that he is wrong.

siah1214 said,

Hah another person that never even tried win 8 and is ****ing and moaning. All you have to do is right click on the left corner (or hit Win+X) and click "system" and bam! There's your system properties. It's actually EASIER than it was in Windows 7.

Goodness... I have it installed from at least amount thanks to dream spark, and that big rectangle is really slow. but yeah, there is a shortcut in there, nonetheless I'm faster, FASTER you heard me, with start8.

Arceles said,

Goodness... I have it installed from at least amount thanks to dream spark, and that big rectangle is really slow. but yeah, there is a shortcut in there, nonetheless I'm faster, FASTER you heard me, with start8.

Only because you refuse to learn how to do things slightly differently in 8. I honestly can do everything just as fast or faster (thanks to the Win+X menu) than I can in 7. Every time someone complains about how productivity is killed with the start screen and how the 7 start menu is faster I ask them to give examples, and they've always been garbage.

mrp04 said,

Only because you refuse to learn how to do things slightly differently in 8. I honestly can do everything just as fast or faster (thanks to the Win+X menu) than I can in 7. Every time someone complains about how productivity is killed with the start screen and how the 7 start menu is faster I ask them to give examples, and they've always been garbage.

Yeah... whatever, whatever fits one seriously, and no, wont use the star screen because is not a real improvement (more like an alternative) over the nice start menu, I seriously can learn to use the start screen but, to what purpose? to do what I already do in a fast fashion and with only one hand? I see not much purpose on that except to look good on tablets and to appeal certain kind of people. In any case better switch to debian/ubuntu, where I do use the terminal for complex task.

Arceles said,

Goodness... I have it installed from at least amount thanks to dream spark, and that big rectangle is really slow. but yeah, there is a shortcut in there, nonetheless I'm faster, FASTER you heard me, with start8.

Trolls gonna troll

Jose_49 said,
B itches please:

WinKey + x + F = Programs and Features
WinKey + x + b = Mobility Center
WinKey + x + v = Event Viewer
WinKey + x + y = System
WinKey + x + m = Device Manager
WinKey + x + k = Disk Management
WinKey + x + g = Computer Management
WinKey + x + c = Command Prompt
WinKey + x + A = Command Prompt with Admin Privileges
WinKey + x + t = Task Manager
WinKey + x + p = Control Panel
WinKey + x + e = File Explorer
WinKey + x + s = Search
WinKey + x + r = Run
WinKey + x + d = Desktop.

The keyboard combinations was the main argument people used to explain why the Ribbon in Office was useless; against them was used the argument that they were all power users; now it is the opposite.
I am sorry but the average user will never use these combination; they all jumped on board using mice and menus.

Arceles said,

just try to open My Computer -> left click -> properties in less than 3 seconds.


Right click new start tile -> System.
Yes faster.
Oh and there's all kinds of other management things there.

Arceles said,

That Opens my PC, not my PC Properties. and even so, If I where to access from there, there are more actions involving in it just to go to system properties, plus I already have to use both hands while with the mouse I only use 1.

I miss understood you, in which case Win Key + Pause/Break does exactly what you wanted. Even works in previous versions. Go ahead give it a try. Takes much less then 3 seconds.

Chris Breeden said,

Windows Key + Pause/Break opens the properties, no need to even use the mouse at all.

having to lean forward and use 2 hands to do what i would have done previously leaning back in my lazyboy recliner using a mouse on a separate stand to the right of my chair is simply out of the question.
It's cute how if I don't do things the same as everyone else i'm dumb and doing it wrong lol

and i have never met someone that knew that key combo which i've been using for a decade at least. so no that crap is NOT new to me
this hit multi key combo's on your keyboard retort is just plain dumb
it doesn't get any better of an excuse the more its posted guys..

I am Not PCyr said,

having to lean forward and use 2 hands to do what i would have done previously leaning back in my lazyboy recliner using a mouse on a separate stand to the right of my chair is simply out of the question.
It's cute how if I don't do things the same as everyone else i'm dumb and doing it wrong lol

and i have never met someone that knew that key combo which i've been using for a decade at least. so no that crap is NOT new to me
this hit multi key combo's on your keyboard retort is just plain dumb
it doesn't get any better of an excuse the more its posted guys..


Right click on the start menu hot corner and click system. Done.

You can still do it while leaning back on your lazyboy recliner and it requires the same amount of clicks (or less depending on whether or not you have the computer shortcut on your desktop) as it does on Windows 7.

Arceles said,

just try to open My Computer -> left click -> properties in less than 3 seconds.

You don't even know the difference between right click and left click. I feel sorry for you...

Pluto is a Planet said,

You don't even know the difference between right click and left click. I feel sorry for you...


Well technically on Windows 8 you can left click to get to system properties So even though he's bashing Win8, he inadvertently just admitted you can open computer properties in the same amount of steps.