Serious Sam dev: Windows 8 certification "should be abolished"

Alen Ladavac, CTO at Croteam, developers of the Serious Sam series of computer games, lashed out at the Windows 8 certification process, writing that it is a "broken concept and should be abolished" in a post on Steam's community forums.

Of the issues Ladavac takes with the Windows 8 certification process, the first he targeted is the fact that tiled UI applications in Windows 8 can only be released through the Windows Store, and not through any other channels. This essentially prevents users from downloading an application from the Internet (even a free one) and running it on a Windows 8 machine, unless it's through Microsoft's store.

Apps must be certified before appearing in the Windows Store. Ladavac complains that this is equivalent to "bringing the 'console experience' onto your desktop," and that all apps on the Windows Store will be subject to the whims of Microsoft's requirements policies.

Mature games like Skyrim, Call of Duty, and Serious Sam were originally banned from the Windows Store due to their content, though this policy has been reversed by Microsoft. However, these mature titles have not yet appeared on the Windows Store and likely won't until December at the earliest.

Additionally, modding has been forbidden by Microsoft's terms. "They could very well forbid Open Source if they want," Ladavac wrote. "But even if these terms were not there, this is still a certification system. With all of its downsides, including uncertain release dates, rare and late patches, and everything turning out to be more expensive and sucking more."

Source: PC Gamer

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21 Comments

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this hypocrite needs to stfu. i see he is selling his games in the apple store, therefore you have no ****in point.

They have solid points. I'm hoping they will get enough complaints to review there polices as they did for the M rated games.

Get rid of it and let apps do what ever they want on people's devices. People can read the zero star rating and review that says "F**** UP YOUR SYSTEM!!! DELETES ALL YOUR FILES" /s

RT is Zune reincarnated. Another feeble M$ attempt to mimic a successful business model (Apple) and get it wrong yet again by acting as if they've already succeeded. They should just get together with Sony and jerk each other off instead of all their customers.

Ravensky said,
Sounds like no STEAM for Windows RT...

Well even if there was, would all of the games have to be recompiled to work on ARM? I don't see that happening...

xendrome said,

Well even if there was, would all of the games have to be recompiled to work on ARM? I don't see that happening...


Obviously ALL games won't be but they already added Mac support and are adding Linux so it's not inconceivable that they'd be able to support ARM in the future.

Ravensky said,
Sounds like no STEAM for Windows RT...

It will happen. Once Windows 8 has reached more marketshare, they (Steam) will be pressed to make an app for all the RT users. They're just playing tactics, seeing if Microsoft will make the first move.

Asmodai said,

Obviously ALL games won't be but they already added Mac support and are adding Linux so it's not inconceivable that they'd be able to support ARM in the future.

The difference here is that both Mac OS and Linux run on x86/x64 based processors where as WIndows RT will be ARM only. Yes I know that Linux also runs on a variety of other processors as well but it is likely that the Steam port will only run on x86/x64 based installations. In order for Steam to run on the ARM processor it would have to be compiled for and potentially recoded (in part or in whole) to target that architecture. Same goes for any games that a person would want to run and for older titles forget it unless it comes in the form of an emulator. In that case it would be slow

Note: See one of the first Sims games to come out on Mac. It used a Windows to Mac binary translator (another name for an emulator) and didn't run natively. It lacked many hardware supports initially which they implemented into the translator in later patch updates but its performance was still abysmal compared to the Windows counterpart.

Of the issues Ladavac takes with the Windows 8 certification process, the first he targeted is the fact that tiled UI applications in Windows 8 can only be released through the Windows Store, and not through any other channels. This essentially prevents users from downloading an application from the Internet (even a free one) and running it on a Windows 8 machine, unless it's through Microsoft's store.

What? You can download non-metro apps from the internet and install them just fine on Windows 8 (apart from RT). And almost all non-tablet games will be x86.

Apps must be certified before appearing in the Windows Store. Ladavac complains that this is equivalent to "bringing the 'console experience' onto your desktop," and that all apps on the Windows Store will be subject to the whims of Microsoft's requirements policies.

How's that any different from other stores like Steam or the App Store? You can't just add your game to Steam, you have to submit it to them, they test it etc and then add it to their store.

And yet again you don't have to use the Windows store. Want your game to only remain on Steam? That's upto you. People can install Steam and download your game on Windows 8 just fine.

The difference is iOS and Android don't have 90% market share. This is a highly competitive market with 4 players (RIM, MS, Google, Apple) where everyone has its own store.

MS is next to alone in the consumer desktop, laptop and netbook market. Nobody complained about the WP app store.

LaP said,
The difference is iOS and Android don't have 90% market share. This is a highly competitive market with 4 players (RIM, MS, Google, Apple) where everyone has its own store.

MS is next to alone in the consumer desktop, laptop and netbook market. Nobody complained about the WP app store.


But yet again you don't need the store unless you're on RT. And Win RT doesn't have 90% marketshare.

-Razorfold said,

But yet again you don't need the store unless you're on RT. And Win RT doesn't have 90% marketshare.

You DO need the store if you want to release a "Metro" tile based app. Sure you can release what is essentially a Windows 7 app and it will run just fine on Windows 8 (but not RT) but if you want to use the new metro API's the you DO have to release it through the Windows Store. You can't make a freeware Windows Live Tile metro app and release it for download on your website, that's the issue.

Asmodai said,

You DO need the store if you want to release a "Metro" tile based app. Sure you can release what is essentially a Windows 7 app and it will run just fine on Windows 8 (but not RT) but if you want to use the new metro API's the you DO have to release it through the Windows Store. You can't make a freeware Windows Live Tile metro app and release it for download on your website, that's the issue.

So? Just like if you want to release an iOS app you DO need the Apple store. Where's the massive outcry against that?

Microsoft isn't saying you have to use the Metro APIs (well you do if you want to target WinRT), win32 apis work just like they always have. And PC games (like serious sam) aren't going to be using Metro APIs anyway. If you don't want to use the MS store then simply make your program using the Win32 apis and voila, nobody is stopping you.

-Razorfold said,

So? Just like if you want to release an iOS app you DO need the Apple store. Where's the massive outcry against that?

Apples to Oranges. Smart Phones and heck Consoles (PS3/Xbox360/etc.) have been "walled gardens" while desktop OSs have not. The outcry is that in the past when MS introduced a new API to Windows they didn't require you submit your software to them for approval and take a 30% cut.

-Razorfold said,

So? Just like if you want to release an iOS app you DO need the Apple store. Where's the massive outcry against that?
[snip]

At this point Apple doesn't hold 90% market share in the smartphone market. Where as Microsoft does in the OS market. When you have that kind of share you don't want to do anything to **** off those with more power.

What is preventing me from installing it from Steam? Windows 8 locks you out of installing anything except from the Windows store? That can't be...anti trust lawsuit anyone?

Ravensky said,
What is preventing me from installing it from Steam?

You can of course continue to install and use Steam. The issue is the way Microsoft requires all WinRT apps to be distributed through the Windows Store, taking a 20-30% cut of all sales. It's anti-competitive given Microsoft's dominance in the operating system market. That means you will never see a Metro app for Steam. Even Android allows you to purchase and download apps through competing stores.

theyarecomingforyou said,

You can of course continue to install and use Steam. The issue is the way Microsoft requires all WinRT apps to be distributed through the Windows Store, taking a 20-30% cut of all sales. It's anti-competitive given Microsoft's dominance in the operating system market. That means you will never see a Metro app for Steam. Even Android allows you to purchase and download apps through competing stores.

By "even" android,I think you mean, "only" android.

Also the steam app for android would be allowed on the windows store, since it not contains the social stuff. So what's the problem.

theyarecomingforyou said,

You can of course continue to install and use Steam. The issue is the way Microsoft requires all WinRT apps to be distributed through the Windows Store, taking a 20-30% cut of all sales. It's anti-competitive given Microsoft's dominance in the operating system market. That means you will never see a Metro app for Steam. Even Android allows you to purchase and download apps through competing stores.


Q,Q anti-competitive... dude common.
WinRT is NOT (again NOT) aimed for desktops, laptops or servers. But for tablets.
In this market MS is a small (tiny) player. And following Apple's same tax-cut. (or you want the Play Store and enjoy installing malware through the store?).
They have no issues using the iTunes store, this while MS offers a much, much larger target audience with developing in 1 language for 1 OS only. Since RT and WP aren't that different.
And the 30% is still lower then burning your sh*t to discs, distributing them across the world and 3rd parties selling it for you.

Or let MS take care of consumers and the distribution.

Shadowzz said,
Q,Q anti-competitive... dude common.
WinRT is NOT (again NOT) aimed for desktops, laptops or servers. But for tablets.
In this market MS is a small (tiny) player.

Competition laws aren't based upon marketshare in a particular sector but about market influence. It is illegal for a company to use its market influence to unfairly disadvantage the competition. For instance, Microsoft might have a tiny share in the anti-virus market but if it blocks products from competing companies and forces customers to use their anti-virus software then that is anti-competitive. That's why Microsoft was fined for its practices regarding Internet Explorer.

Competition laws exist to protect consumers from predatory business practices.