Some current Windows Phone devices to get Apollo?

A few days ago, the head of Microsoft's Windows Phone division, Terry Myerson, dodged questions from financial analysts when asked if the upcoming Windows Phone 8 (also known as Apollo) would be offered as a free update for current Windows Phone 7-based devices. Now there's word that Microsoft might offer Apollo on at least some current Windows Phone products.

The web site WP7App.de (via WMPoweruser.com) claims to have chatted with a Microsoft rep at this week's CeBIT computer trade show. The report claims that, according to the unnamed Microsoft rep, a number of current Windows Phone 7 products, including the Lumia phones made by Nokia, would "definitely" get the free update to Windows Phone 8. Older first generation Windows Phone that were first released in 2010 might also get the Apollo upgrade but they might not have all of its features.

If true, this is certainly good news for anyone who wants to purchase a current generation Windows Phone 7.5 device who might have been worried that they could be stuck with the current version of the OS. Windows Phone 8, which will share the same kernel as Microsoft's Windows 8, is rumored to be made available sometime before the end of 2012.

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Has anyone thought that considering Nokia's partnership with Microsoft maybe the Lumias were always meant to be Apollo phones just released ahead of time to get a suitable number of Apollo supporting phones into the market early..
This gives Microsoft the exposure and early market share it will need for such a significant release..
Just my thoughts...

You can pretty much exclude AT&T from that. Microsoft has already revealed that the REAL update policy all along has been "we make the updates available to any carrier that desires it", which means any carrier can (and has) say "screw you, customers". The only way you are going to get your Focus updated to 8107 is by hacking it (which I did). AT&T isn't about to make Apollo available to existing phones---they'll make you buy a new phone.

ScubaDog said,
You can pretty much exclude AT&T from that. Microsoft has already revealed that the REAL update policy all along has been "we make the updates available to any carrier that desires it", which means any carrier can (and has) say "screw you, customers". The only way you are going to get your Focus updated to 8107 is by hacking it (which I did). AT&T isn't about to make Apollo available to existing phones---they'll make you buy a new phone.

Lyoub
Isn't it the law now that if you call the carrier they have to give you the unlock key

Come on MS, there is only like a 100 devices out in the wild (most given away for free in some lame competition) and you stop releasing updates for them already? All this when you accused your competitors for the same not too long ago. Such hypocrisy!

So consider MS's recent dig at Apple for "slowing down" iPhones by shipping updates, let's see if MS can do better and offer WP8 without slowing down WP7 phones. This is in fact a great way to improve upon your competitors. Just because Android handsets are slow to get updates doesn't mean MS shouldn't.

Apollo will run on all current Windows Phones. Certain features may be disabled, but I promise you will get the upgrade. Otherwise, they wouldn't have gone through all the trouble of making Windows Phone run on low end devices.

I know this because I am from the future.

You're 200% right.

Enron said,
Apollo will run on all current Windows Phones. Certain features may be disabled, but I promise you will get the upgrade. Otherwise, they wouldn't have gone through all the trouble of making Windows Phone run on low end devices.

I know this because I am from the future.

Does Apollo really matter that much to older devices? Most of the work being done is for new hardware features like 720p displays, dual-core CPUs, NFC, etc... It's not as if your older phones are magically going to get those features.

dagamer34 said,
Does Apollo really matter that much to older devices? Most of the work being done is for new hardware features like 720p displays, dual-core CPUs, NFC, etc... It's not as if your older phones are magically going to get those features.

Apollo allows applications to have a degree of native hardware access. This is huge for things like games and emulators which perform very poorly in an interpreted environment.

dagamer34 said,
Does Apollo really matter that much to older devices? Most of the work being done is for new hardware features like 720p displays, dual-core CPUs, NFC, etc... It's not as if your older phones are magically going to get those features.

There's also new APIs for applications, and possibly a few changes to the UI, such as "Folders"

yowanvista said,
Cool, more fragmentation..

So it's not fragmentation according to your Android comment but when it comes to WP it is? ROFL even more man. Such a sensationalist fanboy.

funkydude said,

So it's not fragmentation according to your Android comment but when it comes to WP it is? ROFL even more man. Such a sensationalist fanboy.


Android doesn't suffer from such. Manufactures roll out updates occasionally and if not we always have custom roms.

yowanvista said,

Android doesn't suffer from such. Manufactures roll out updates occasionally and if not we always have custom roms.

Actually, Android does have the issue. Custom ROMS only last as long as fanboys work on that device, and that is not every single device. The most popular ones will get worked on, but eventually the less popular ones won't get many updates.

Also, in this case, we are talking major upgrades, not patches. Is every Android device on ICS? Is there a Custom ROM For every single one? I highly doubt that.

The reality is, Fragementation is natural part of computer industry, you can't avoid it, not even Apple. Eventually, OEMs, Carriers, and Fanboys have to stop supporting old hardware and move on. The support cost is too great otherwise and new features often require advancements in hardware.

What matters ths most is how it is communicated and handled. It should be a clear policy. I agree with the above poster who said support every 2 major upgrades. That is fair and reasonable.

If they make it available for lumia devices then why not original devices from 2010? the specs are almost identical so no reason to cut support. Ive always assumed all devices will get wp8 and ill wait to hear the official word before i listen to more rumors

zikalify said,
If they make it available for lumia devices then why not original devices from 2010? the specs are almost identical so no reason to cut support. Ive always assumed all devices will get wp8 and ill wait to hear the official word before i listen to more rumors

The GPU has had a significant update in 2011 devices.

zikalify said,
If they make it available for lumia devices then why not original devices from 2010? the specs are almost identical so no reason to cut support. Ive always assumed all devices will get wp8 and ill wait to hear the official word before i listen to more rumors

Second generation hardware is much more powerful, although you might say, hey it's 500 Mhz only it's a different architecture and improves performance by much more than that.

still1 said,
Its a joke right... No WP8 on WP7 devices.... start of fragmentation...

Could be, but it depends on how it's handled, really

still1 said,
Its a joke right... No WP8 on WP7 devices.... start of fragmentation...

So you also think that the iPhone is fragmented because the 2G and 3G no-longer receive updates?

StarLion said,

So you also think that the iPhone is fragmented because the 2G and 3G no-longer receive updates?

if it doesn't receive updates then yes....

FalseAgent said,

even if it is, Windows Phone hardware is far less fragmented than android's.

Will you guys give it up already and just admit that it is fragmented just like anything else out there. The reason it is less fragmented is because there is like 1% of smartphones that run it and it hasn't been out long enough yet. The same reason why there was no fragmentation when it was launched.

recursive said,

Will you guys give it up already and just admit that it is fragmented just like anything else out there.

Why? It's not fragmented at all. Maybe in the future, but not now.

Auroka said,
Awesome!
I doubt the HTC Trophy is going to be one of those.

I hope it is... It's basically the same as the Radar (I think is the name), so hopefully they'll push it to both...

Pygmy_Hippo said,
Fingers crossed for my Omnia 7

First gen devices aren't that much different from 2nd gen devices, Lumia 800 doesn't even have front camera for example. But Tango devices with only 256 ram might be too underpowered to run WP8, and that might be the reason why they won't say which devices might receive WP8.

If true, MS would be wise to make this officially known. I for one, am not planning to buy a new device until Apollo is released, but if I know for certain that the Lumia 900 would be upgradable I'll definitely take the plunge sooner than later.

shamburg said,
If true, MS would be wise to make this officially known. I for one, am not planning to buy a new device until Apollo is released, but if I know for certain that the Lumia 900 would be upgradable I'll definitely take the plunge sooner than later.

I'm in the same boat. Seriously considering the 900 this summer, but with Apollo around the corner I'm a bit nervous about it becoming outdated straight away. The 900 has the biggest chance out of all the devices the way I see it

shamburg said,
If true, MS would be wise to make this officially known. I for one, am not planning to buy a new device until Apollo is released, but if I know for certain that the Lumia 900 would be upgradable I'll definitely take the plunge sooner than later.

Agreed. They should really make this very clear.

shamburg said,
If true, MS would be wise to make this officially known. I for one, am not planning to buy a new device until Apollo is released, but if I know for certain that the Lumia 900 would be upgradable I'll definitely take the plunge sooner than later.

The Lumia 800 should get the same update too then? I thought it ran identical hardware to the 900, just with a smaller screen.

They can't make it clear because Sinofsky's philosophy on Windows is to not make any promises about the product or even discuss anything about the product until Microsoft is sure that it feel like a quality product. This was a radical departure from Microsoft's typical way of handling in-development versions of Windows, which was to publicly share all plans and details about it early in development cycle.

shamburg said,
If true, MS would be wise to make this officially known. I for one, am not planning to buy a new device until Apollo is released, but if I know for certain that the Lumia 900 would be upgradable I'll definitely take the plunge sooner than later.

The tripping point is features in WP8 that the older phones won't offer. Just like Mango for WP7.5 that added in a new sensor, which it approximates for older devices, but newer phones designed for 7.5 have the actual sensor in them.

So depending on the full WP8 feature set, it won't be whether the phone will get the update, it will be about WP8 features that need XYZ features that won't be possible on the current generation of phones.

(For example, what if Microsoft adds in a new interface specification for video out or
'insert random feature here' - this feature will not be usable on WP7 and might be important to people.)

The rest of the WP8 features will work and be great on existing devices though.

So if you like the hardware features of a Nokia 900 there is no reason to not get one.

To be successful with WP, Microsoft should do as Apple. Free update and available to all devices, up to a point.

x-byte said,
To be successful with WP, Microsoft should do as Apple. Free update and available to all devices, up to a point.

Remember a few years back Apple used to charge for a few dollars for iOS updates, luckily the threat from Android put an end to that nonsense.

thealexweb said,

Remember a few years back Apple used to charge for a few dollars for iOS updates, luckily the threat from Android put an end to that nonsense.

They only charged for iOS updates on the iPod Touch, they never charged for the update on the iPhone

Sraf said,

They only charged for iOS updates on the iPod Touch, they never charged for the update on the iPhone

Woops, I only had an iPod Touch at the time so I assumed it was the same process for both

thealexweb said,

Remember a few years back Apple used to charge for a few dollars for iOS updates, luckily the threat from Android put an end to that nonsense.

I remember their lame excuse when iOS's first revision came out to add "apps" to the iPod touch and they charged you for the apps on the iPod touch and not the iPhone... which was so stupid considering they are the same thing minus a phone radio basically

thealexweb said,

Well was there any change in the law? If not why the change when it happened?

They were just using it as an excuse to charge but they didn't really have to.

x-byte said,
To be successful with WP, Microsoft should do as Apple. Free update and available to all devices, up to a point.

Agreed. I hope that they push Apollo out to current Windows Phone 7 devices... I'm O.K. not getting Windows Phone 9, but we should be able to get at least one major update.

I mean, if you think about it, they intend to release a major update every year and most people are in 2 year contracts... It would make sense to support 2 major versions before forcing an upgrade.

x-byte said,
To be successful with WP, Microsoft should do as Apple. Free update and available to all devices, up to a point.

Yeah put new software on an old device making it slow so the user goes out and buys a new one. That's what makes Apple successfull!

thealexweb said,

Well was there any change in the law? If not why the change when it happened?

Don't think the law changed. They just changed the way they account for iPod revenues. I imagine they had to wait until the end of the financial year to change it to make their accountants lives easier

neufuse said,

I remember their lame excuse when iOS's first revision came out to add "apps" to the iPod touch and they charged you for the apps on the iPod touch and not the iPhone... which was so stupid considering they are the same thing minus a phone radio basically


At least Apple offered people an upgrade path instead of forcing you to buy entirely new hardware, unlike many other companies.

.Neo said,

At least Apple offered people an upgrade path instead of forcing you to buy entirely new hardware, unlike many other companies.

Unless you own a 3 year old mac mini, then you can't upgrade to mountain lion.

x-byte said,
To be successful with WP, Microsoft should do as Apple. Free update and available to all devices, up to a point.

Definitely, obviously it would require higher levels of testing and compatibility, which is why it's easier for Apple to do this, since they make both the software and hardware.

Otherwise yeah, make it a free update and win.

.Neo said,

At least Apple offered people an upgrade path instead of forcing you to buy entirely new hardware, unlike many other companies.

Unlike many companies? You mean like Android phone makers, because supporting Android is expensive when they have to fully rebuild for older devices.

As for 'like many companies', this is a bit misleading, as the same companies you are talking about, also make WP7 devices and they all got WP7 Mango updates (a major revision in line with all the iOS x versions) and with Microsoft doing the OS work, their devices should also get the 8.x update as well.

trip21 said,

Yeah put new software on an old device making it slow so the user goes out and buys a new one. That's what makes Apple successfull!

Microsoft is actually reducing the system requirements for Windows Phone not increasing them