Steam to challenge Windows Store by offering non-gaming software

Valve's Steam service started out as a way for people to download the full version of Half-Life 2 in 2004. It has since expanded to include over 1,000 PC and Mac games from pretty much every major game publisher, as well as many indie games. Valve has said that there are over 40 million registered users on Steam. Recently, Valve confirmed it was working on porting Steam to Linux.

Today, Valve announced that it will be expanding beyond games for the Steam service. The company announced that, beginning on September 5th, it will start selling non-gaming software products on Steam. Specific products were not announced but Valve did state:

The Software titles coming to Steam range from creativity to productivity. Many of the launch titles will take advantage of popular Steamworks features, such as easy installation, automatic updating, and the ability to save your work to your personal Steam Cloud space so your files may travel with you.

Valve also said non-gaming software titles can also be submitted for consideration for Valve's upcoming Steam Greenlight program, which lets developers use social networking to convince Valve to publish their software on Steam.

It will be interesting to see which companies are among the first to launch their software products on Steam, which already has a massive user base for its game titles.

Notably, this software store will soon compete directly against Microsoft when it launches Windows 8. Considering Valve is heavily entrenched in the software distribution for gaming, this could pose a serious challenge to Microsoft.  

Source: Valve press release

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I think you're all forgetting that it's possible for the Windows Store and Steam to co-exist. Their title selection will be vastly different I'm assuming.

The Windows 8 store is DESIGNED to provide links and listings to work with distributors like Steam, and should be their greatest advertising/access point for the titles they carry.

Microsoft is NOT using the Store for non-WinRT titles, beyond providing links to the publisher/developer sites, that Steam could populate and provide download links through their software.

Steam/Valve is either really stupid, have no vision, or have no understanding of the Windows 8 Store technologies. It should be their best friend, and 'awesome' for them, and yet they see it as competition.

All it will take is a Steam competitor to 'get' what the Windows 8 Store offers for existing and non-RT applications and use it with their partners, so they are the links of distribution and purchasing the products. (Steam will blow away in the wind if a big enough player does this.)

Listing individual Steam games on the Windows Store isn't effortless since desktop apps have to pass certain requirements. The Steam client itself would currently fail several of them, as would some of its games.

There is also a lot of potential overlap between their catalogues; whenever a game gets ported to WinRT the developer would no longer want the Steam version to be listed on the Windows Store. Big-budget games won't be going WinRT for a while yet, but the slightest possibility of that happening is cause for concern for Valve.

So instead of paying 30% of the profits from selling apps on windows store to Microsoft, you can pay steam 30% of your profits to sell your apps from their store.

anyone else hide all this store crap too ?
i don't wanna see it so in steam for example i use mini games list view
like in steam 1.0 and disabled notifications and i'd do the same to windows 8 too
i don't want any of that crap.. i have a web browser.
oh and i don't care about this new idea.. its fine with me.

The first line of the story is BS lol

When i was in the private steam beta playing CS i don't remember anyone saying that (from valve)

Well I see a future in this for Valve. Steam has an amazing payment system. Usually pretty much all app stores require a credit card or PayPal (which sort of requires a credit card too) for all payments. Steam is one of the only stores where I can just pay with my regular online banking here in Belgium.

In Belgium the Windows Store will probably be mostly unusable because there won't be support for specific Belgian payment systems. The large majority of Belgians doesn't have a credit card.

Ambroos said,
Well I see a future in this for Valve. Steam has an amazing payment system. Usually pretty much all app stores require a credit card or PayPal (which sort of requires a credit card too) for all payments. Steam is one of the only stores where I can just pay with my regular online banking here in Belgium.

In Belgium the Windows Store will probably be mostly unusable because there won't be support for specific Belgian payment systems. The large majority of Belgians doesn't have a credit card.

Really? That is interesting and I didn't know that. Glad I learned something new today!

I think people are completely misreading this move.

While it's easy to read this as a counter to the Windows 8 store, I believe it's wiser to take all of Valve's actions together and read them as a whole--specifically, expanding into Linux.

Linux lacks an intelligent, standard software installation process. It always has been--and continues to be--varied across distributions. Steam on Linux could actually resolve this by becoming a cross-distro app ecosystem that streamlines the entire installation process and user app library. It would kill the (frankly) idiotic repository system in use now, or at least remove it from being customer-facing.

If expanding to non-games is part of their Linux strategy, it makes a world of sense, and would be a good thing for Linux's future in the eyes of regular users.

If the expansion is to compete with Windows 8's store, then Valve is being retarded.

Joshie said,
I think people are completely misreading this move.

While it's easy to read this as a counter to the Windows 8 store, I believe it's wiser to take all of Valve's actions together and read them as a whole--specifically, expanding into Linux.

Linux lacks an intelligent, standard software installation process. It always has been--and continues to be--varied across distributions. Steam on Linux could actually resolve this by becoming a cross-distro app ecosystem that streamlines the entire installation process and user app library. It would kill the (frankly) idiotic repository system in use now, or at least remove it from being customer-facing.

If expanding to non-games is part of their Linux strategy, it makes a world of sense, and would be a good thing for Linux's future in the eyes of regular users.

If the expansion is to compete with Windows 8's store, then Valve is being retarded.


Depends if Linux support includes open source, and free software which is what Linux is all about...

mdtaUK said,

Depends if Linux support includes open source, and free software which is what Linux is all about...

Linux only does well when money is involved. It's nice and fuzzy to be idealistic and talk about FOSS, but FOSS will never be 'consumer cool', and relying on it will make the "Year of desktop Linux" that much more impossible.

I don't hate on idealism, but idealism is for niches. You can't dream about wonderful things and expect them to change the world if you don't care what the world thinks of it. Money is the only way to make Linux attractive to people.

Spending money puts Linux in cars and appliances, where closed source commercial software runs on top of it.

Profitability made a clunky Java VM layer into the Android success story.

Every 'solution' to Linux's 'problems' revolves around finding a way to make money. Steam would offer that. Resentment solves nothing, and needs to be filed away with 'RTFM' and every other damning attitude that keeps Linux a consumer failure.

Joshie said,

Linux only does well when money is involved. It's nice and fuzzy to be idealistic and talk about FOSS, but FOSS will never be 'consumer cool', and relying on it will make the "Year of desktop Linux" that much more impossible.

I don't hate on idealism, but idealism is for niches. You can't dream about wonderful things and expect them to change the world if you don't care what the world thinks of it. Money is the only way to make Linux attractive to people.

Spending money puts Linux in cars and appliances, where closed source commercial software runs on top of it.

Profitability made a clunky Java VM layer into the Android success story.

Every 'solution' to Linux's 'problems' revolves around finding a way to make money. Steam would offer that. Resentment solves nothing, and needs to be filed away with 'RTFM' and every other damning attitude that keeps Linux a consumer failure.

Linux has always been about ideals over commercial consideration.

mdtaUK said,

Linux has always been about ideals over commercial consideration.


You're responding to my post with the very topic my post addressed. It's as if you left a semester of sex education and asked aloud, "Yes, but where do babies come from?"

Joshie said,
It would kill the (frankly) idiotic repository system in use now, or at least remove it from being customer-facing.

I don't think it would, what it could do is complement it.

Steam most likely isn't going to offer all the software that Linux repos have (why would you want to install bind or apache from Steam, anway?), and repos won't have every title that Steam would offer (although Canonical's Software Center might have some of them).

I don't see Steam implementing package dependency resolution, not do I see Linux going with a statically compiled model for anything other than proprietary software. The overlapping would be minimal.

wow, there's quite a lot of hate on steam within the comments. May I ask exactly what is wrong with steam? Personally I have never had any problem with the steam service, and having steam running in the background has really been a non issue for me due to the fact that it doesn't use that many resources on my computer.

As for the people stating that the majority of PC games are pirated off steam, I would like to see a citation on this little factoid, although I would not consider it that far-fetched. The main reason I wouldn't consider this that far-fetched, is because if the majority of PC games are being bought on a particular platform, then surely it would make sense that the majority of pirating would come from the platform with the most market share.

Personally for me, steam drew me away from the pirating of games. (And ironically, it was after I pirated half life one and decided to buy it, that introduced me to the platform) To me, it was DRM done right. When you buy a game, it is attached to your account, not your computer. No license keys to deal with. No limited time to download. no counters keeping an eye on how many computers you've installed it on. The game is yours to do as you wish on what ever computer you wish. And is still there for you to download years in the future for when ever you need it. Having this kind of DRM attached to other software to me is a godsend, and I'm looking forward to see what software will be sold in the steam marketplace.

Ad Man Gamer said,
wow, there's quite a lot of hate on steam within the comments. May I ask exactly what is wrong with steam?

Mostly Windows fans I think. They'll viciously attack anyone or anything that says anything bad about their latest shiny Ballmer product. The Apple brigade has nothing on hardcore Windows lovers. With something as horrible as Metro on the desktop they're working overtime to defend it.

TRC said,

Mostly Windows fans I think. They'll viciously attack anyone or anything that says anything bad about their latest shiny Ballmer product. The Apple brigade has nothing on hardcore Windows lovers. With something as horrible as Metro on the desktop they're working overtime to defend it.

I personally like steam, even though I don't play many games on my computer, and I have no problem with them release software (as long as the software is safe and affordable).

What I despise are people who are disingenuous in an attempt to discredit competitor's products, and business who abuse their customers/partners/position.

Hence why I got rid of my Apple products, and never liked Steve Jobs.

Steam would like to be the engine that powers PC games and software. Because for so long now, Microsoft had not provided a way for users to obtain third-party software.

Gabe obviously would like Microsoft to stay out of that space, and now they are including their own solution, its in his best interest to downplay Windows 8, and keep people on Windows 7 where Steam will be the only viable choice.

It is a shame because this makes him seem like a douche, even though Steam will work fine on Windows 8, and perhaps even better in terms of game performance, and at present there really is no treading on toes.

Glassed Silver said,
I hear laughter in Redmond...
GS:win

Didn't Redmond, or more specifically, Steve Ballmer laugh at iOS and Android at some point as well? I guess we know who had the last laugh there.

Microsoft has a history of underestimating the competition and emerging technologies. The internet was a big one. Even Microsoft's app store is very late to the party. GNU/Linux has had those features for decades, iOS and Android had them from the start, and OS X has had its store for quite some time.

I for one wish Valve and Gabe all the best. If he can offer a truly multiplatform app/game store, then it's going to pay off big time.

simplezz said,

Didn't Redmond, or more specifically, Steve Ballmer laugh at iOS and Android at some point as well? I guess we know who had the last laugh there.

Microsoft has a history of underestimating the competition and emerging technologies. The internet was a big one. Even Microsoft's app store is very late to the party. GNU/Linux has had those features for decades, iOS and Android had them from the start, and OS X has had its store for quite some time.

I for one wish Valve and Gabe all the best. If he can offer a truly multiplatform app/game store, then it's going to pay off big time.

iOS did not have an App store from the start, that was on V2 of the OS

simplezz said,

Didn't Redmond, or more specifically, Steve Ballmer laugh at iOS and Android at some point as well? I guess we know who had the last laugh there.

Microsoft has a history of underestimating the competition and emerging technologies. The internet was a big one. Even Microsoft's app store is very late to the party. GNU/Linux has had those features for decades, iOS and Android had them from the start, and OS X has had its store for quite some time.

I for one wish Valve and Gabe all the best. If he can offer a truly multiplatform app/game store, then it's going to pay off big time.

considering the money they make off android i think that laugh was right on spot... just sayin'

as for steam, if i could choose between windows store and it i would go for the microsoft one without question, but surely they won't offer the exact same software

Edited by deleted_acc, Aug 8 2012, 8:16pm :

Sraf said,
iOS did not have an App store from the start, that was on V2 of the OS

Weren't they pretty much THE first app store though? His point still stands in Ballmer underestimating the competition...

simplezz said,

Didn't Redmond, or more specifically, Steve Ballmer laugh at iOS and Android at some point as well? I guess we know who had the last laugh there.

Microsoft has a history of underestimating the competition and emerging technologies. The internet was a big one. Even Microsoft's app store is very late to the party. GNU/Linux has had those features for decades, iOS and Android had them from the start, and OS X has had its store for quite some time.

I for one wish Valve and Gabe all the best. If he can offer a truly multiplatform app/game store, then it's going to pay off big time.

However, while Microsoft has been guilty of underestimating competition, the competition has been just as guilty of underestimating Microsoft (or how much resistance Microsoft can put up).

Glassed Silver said,
I hear laughter in Redmond...

GS:win

can i ask why you and others sign every little comment with your signature like your writing someone a letter ? Autograph for the fans ? lol
that's kinda weird cause your name is at the top of every comment anyway..

simplezz said,

Didn't Redmond, or more specifically, Steve Ballmer laugh at iOS and Android at some point as well? I guess we know who had the last laugh there.

Microsoft has a history of underestimating the competition and emerging technologies. The internet was a big one. Even Microsoft's app store is very late to the party. GNU/Linux has had those features for decades, iOS and Android had them from the start, and OS X has had its store for quite some time.

I for one wish Valve and Gabe all the best. If he can offer a truly multiplatform app/game store, then it's going to pay off big time.

I don't think iOS started with an appstore. They got it with the second generation I believe. But you are so right with the laughter part. Reminds of he who laughs last....

dead.cell said,

Weren't they pretty much THE first app store though? His point still stands in Ballmer underestimating the competition...

Not really, WM had some small ones (3rd party), and IIRC Symbian had one before iOS, and that's just in the mobile space

(I'm also not saying they were any good, the one I had for WM5 sucked ass)

simplezz said,

Didn't Redmond, or more specifically, Steve Ballmer laugh at iOS and Android at some point as well? I guess we know who had the last laugh there.

Microsoft has a history of underestimating the competition and emerging technologies. The internet was a big one. Even Microsoft's app store is very late to the party. GNU/Linux has had those features for decades, iOS and Android had them from the start, and OS X has had its store for quite some time.

I for one wish Valve and Gabe all the best. If he can offer a truly multiplatform app/game store, then it's going to pay off big time.


I was just stating something that I think is happening in Redmond right now, due to the fact that if you puzzle this news with the last news bit (http://www.neowin.net/news/val...-windows-8-is-a-catastrophe) then you'll know where Valve's emotions come from at least partially.

Now, I think Valve will not suffer a lot, but you know, it's certainly a funny point that arises from those two news combined.

So yeah, I'm all with you when you say Microsoft is underestimating competitors all the time in a way, but that wasn't what I was on, merely that now they know where some of that criticism comes from.

GS:win

dead.cell said,

Weren't they pretty much THE first app store though? His point still stands in Ballmer underestimating the competition...

No and no to all these comments. Yes, Ubuntu and Debian for that matter have had stores/app repositories for ages mainly because installing stuff for the average n00b is a pain in the ass. No, iOS was never designed for app development it was just a platform like the classic for playing music, videos and maybe browsing the internet. Contrary to popular belief, the App Store was released ages after the first version of iOS but whatver, Symbian has had app stores for as long as I can remember and Windows has had an abundance of program stores and websites dedicated to listing software for as long as we've had a better than dial-up connection.

As for the Ballmer's prediction on iOS it was largely a valid prediction and many said it at the time, WP7 has been more popular to take up then iOS devices. The first iPhone sales were less than expected and if I recall, Apple were seriously contemplating what they were going to do in the future. If you look around you will not see any iPhone (), iPhone 2nd or even iPhone 3. Things only started happening with the 3Gs and now the iPhone 4/4s (same thing). So yeah the technology world changes really fast and if you don't have a research and development fund of $50 billion then you probably won't survive very long, like we saw with poor old RIM-king of the smarter phones.

Sounds like a natural progression to me. The fact that Stream is a true multiplatform distribution system will mean it has many advantages over anything Microsoft can offer.

simplezz said,
Sounds like a natural progression to me. The fact that Stream is a true multiplatform distribution system will mean it has many advantages over anything Microsoft can offer.

Well, that depends. There better be a toggle to only show things compatible with the platform I'm currently on. If I'm on Windows I don't want to see Mac apps (or linux ones in the future) and if I'm on a mac I sure don't want to see any Windows apps either.
And of course, they better let me launch the apps without it having to go through steam and asking their servers and so on.

simplezz said,
Sounds like a natural progression to me. The fact that Stream is a true multiplatform distribution system will mean it has many advantages over anything Microsoft can offer.
It's no more a multiplatform distribution system than NewEgg selling downloadable versions of games.

It isn't a platform. It has injected DRM on OS dependant code for each game. You don't write once and run on all platforms with Steam. You have to create a version for each platform you want to be distributed to. Adding Linux adds almost no value to game developers because nobody uses linux... 1% or so... a rounding error.

They have a ways to go to becoming a "platform."

I'm generally democratic but not on this one. Steam is garbage. I'm putting aside $500 now. I'm buying every Xbox for Windows branded game as they are released till it runs out whether or not I want to play it. For the sole purpose of supporting the demise of the malware formally known as Steam, it's fanboys, and Internet Gangsta wannabes and perverts.

MorganX said,
I'm generally democratic but not on this one. Steam is garbage. I'm putting aside $500 now. I'm buying every Xbox for Windows branded game as they are released till it runs out whether or not I want to play it. For the sole purpose of supporting the demise of the malware formally known as Steam, it's fanboys, and Internet Gangsta wannabes and perverts.

Yeah or you could just not use Steam if you don't like it instead of acting like a drama queen.

I don't use it. And I will actively support it's demise so developers opt for Xbox for Windows.

TRC said,

Or you could just not use Steam if you don't like it instead of acting like a demented drama queen.

MorganX said,
I don't use it. And I will actively support it's demise so developers opt for Xbox for Windows.

Have fun throwing your money away then, Steam isn't going anywhere.

MorganX said,
I'm generally democratic but not on this one. Steam is garbage. I'm putting aside $500 now. I'm buying every Xbox for Windows branded game as they are released till it runs out whether or not I want to play it. For the sole purpose of supporting the demise of the malware formally known as Steam, it's fanboys, and Internet Gangsta wannabes and perverts.

Why are you opposed to Steam anyway? I suppose you also oppose Origin.

MorganX said,
I'm generally democratic but not on this one. Steam is garbage. I'm putting aside $500 now. I'm buying every Xbox for Windows branded game as they are released till it runs out whether or not I want to play it. For the sole purpose of supporting the demise of the malware formally known as Steam, it's fanboys, and Internet Gangsta wannabes and perverts.

Wow, you must really really hate Steam if you need to start 3 separate comment threads on the same news post. Go outside and take a deep breath of fresh air. Nobody is forcing you to install Steam. Steam is not required and you do not have to live your life with it if you don't want to.

EA was far too intrusive even before origin but since they are not a service for multiple publishers, they're insignificant, though ME is a big franchise. I really don't care for any free services including PS Network which is absolutely the worst. Hate to say it but sometimes people that can't afford say, $50/yr shouldn't be allowed in.

xTdub said,

Why are you opposed to Steam anyway? I suppose you also oppose Origin.

Does this mean more TF2 items when you preorder?
I hope people dont need to open Steam to run non-game software. Just use it to download.

Doli said,
Does this mean more TF2 items when you preorder?
I hope people dont need to open Steam to run non-game software. Just use it to download.

Exactly.

Doli said,
Does this mean more TF2 items when you preorder?
I hope people dont need to open Steam to run non-game software. Just use it to download.

I'm sure it will require Steam to be running at all times...

I don't think anyone can claim that the Windows 8 store will be more successful than this (especially early on). Windows 8 store is limited to metro apps only; Steam will sell "classic" Windows software. Windows 8 store will be limited to Windows 8 only; Windows XP+Vista+7 users will be able to get apps from Steam. It already looks like people are not going to warm up to Windows 8 as fast as they did to Windows 7.

For tablets that work great with metro, Windows 8 store all the way; for the rest of us, I'm looking forward to seeing how the well Steam library fills out.

Aaron44126 said,
I don't think anyone can claim that the Windows 8 store will be more successful than this (especially early on). Windows 8 store is limited to metro apps only; Steam will sell "classic" Windows software. Windows 8 store will be limited to Windows 8 only; Windows XP+Vista+7 users will be able to get apps from Steam. It already looks like people are not going to warm up to Windows 8 as fast as they did to Windows 7.

For tablets that work great with metro, Windows 8 store all the way; for the rest of us, I'm looking forward to seeing how the well Steam library fills out.

While you won't buy desktop software from the Windows store directly that doesn't mean it won't be listed, something MS is going to allow from the start. Now if after that point when you click on the link it takes you to some other web store or the developers website directly that matters little to most people I think. In the end even desktop software will benefit from the Windows store listing it, not just metro apps. I think it'd be silly not to list your app in there.

Here's the really hi-larious part about Steam deciding *now* to offer non-gaming software - it's something that Steam could have done any time, (The only online competitor that *doesn't* offer non-gaming software is Origin - both Impulse and iTunes have offered non-gaming software from the beginning.) What makes it all the sillier is that Microsoft Flight (you know that casual flight sim that Microsoft recently killed) actually has *their* link in the Windows Store go to *Steam*. Steam's DRM is non-intrusive *only* when you purchased the game or other software via the service; however, registering a game you purchased in any other way (including physically) via Steam is just as intrusive as any other DRM - least-intrusive does NOT mean that the DRM isn't there. I have nothing at all against Steam as a service - or even as an online store; if I did, I wouldn't use it. However, what is with the illogic some folks have when viewing Microsoft?

John Callaham said in his article,
Notably, this software store will soon compete directly against Microsoft when it launches Windows 8. Considering Valve is heavily entrenched in the software distribution for gaming, this could pose a serious challenge to Microsoft.

Nonsense, it's not going to compete with the Windows store at all. The Windows store is for Metro apps, Steam is for Desktop apps. Entirely no competition. Now if Microsoft open up the Windows Store so that it also sells and distributes desktop apps, THEN and only then would there be competition.

It has already been said by Microsoft that they will include desktop applications in the Windows Store, but instead of direct buying and installation it will redirect users to the website of the developer, from where they can buy and install it

TCLN Ryster said,

Nonsense, it's not going to compete with the Windows store at all. The Windows store is for Metro apps, Steam is for Desktop apps. Entirely no competition.

I'm not sure how that will remain however. You can already find at least one non-metro app in the Windows store that redirects to Adobe's site: Adobe Acrobat Reader.

The way non-metro apps will be implemented in the store may be questionable; however they are definitely going to exist there. Microsoft stated as much over a year ago now.

TCLN Ryster said,

Nonsense, it's not going to compete with the Windows store at all. The Windows store is for Metro apps, Steam is for Desktop apps. Entirely no competition. Now if Microsoft open up the Windows Store so that it also sells and distributes desktop apps, THEN and only then would there be competition.

Too bad EXISTING desktop apps already have their existing "repositories". Such as cnet, filehippo, softpedia, etc. Users won't use Steam instead of those just because Gabe wants them to.

Steam: Run the apps in fullscreen or any resolution you like.

Windows 8: Run all apps in fullscreen. I heard fullscreen is the future for us desktop users with big screens...

PS. Not sure I like the idea of other things than games on steam though. Perhaps soundtracks? DS.

fobban said,
Steam: Run the apps in fullscreen or any resolution you like.

Windows 8: Run all apps in fullscreen. I heard fullscreen is the future for us desktop users with big screens...

PS. Not sure I like the idea of other things than games on steam though. Perhaps soundtracks? DS.

This is how misinformation starts to spread. You probably have installed Win8 and know that only metro apps will run full screen, the rest/desktop apps will be able to run in any mode you want, just like in Win7.

georgevella said,
This is how misinformation starts to spread. You probably have installed Win8 and know that only metro apps will run full screen, the rest/desktop apps will be able to run in any mode you want, just like in Win7.

And best yet, the Windows Store will include non-metro apps, games and goodies.

Shadowzz said,

And best yet, the Windows Store will include non-metro apps, games and goodies.

I did not know that you could supply non-metro apps. Does that apply to everyone or only selected partners?

PsYcHoKiLLa said,
I have a feeling Adobe might sign up to this, it could be the anti-piracy they need for their suite.

Uhh, you know steam titles are some of the most pirated things out there right? It's not exactly hard to work around.

I'm having trouble interpreting this in any way other than confirmation that Valve's Windows 8 concerns are ENTIRELY about ecosystems.

Gabe's comments have been spun around to make it sound like it isn't whining about market competition, but expanding to match the general appstore model this rapidly isn't exactly lining up with those spins.

No context. Xbox for Windows and Windows Store. Steam I hate. It only exists because it's free, it's games are easier to pirate, and most gamers don't want to pay $38/yr for a far superior Live! account. Windows 8 may change that. $38/yr for most or all features functionality of Live! for the PC, I think that's work for anyone except the software pirates.

MorganX said,
No context. Xbox for Windows and Windows Store. Steam I hate. It only exists because it's free, it's games are easier to pirate, and most gamers don't want to pay $38/yr for a far superior Live! account. Windows 8 may change that. $38/yr for most or all features functionality of Live! for the PC, I think that's work for anyone except the software pirates.

It's funny that you think Windows Store apps won't be easy to pirate.

MorganX said,
It only exists because it's free, it's games are easier to pirate, and most gamers don't want to pay $38/yr for a far superior Live! account.

a) How can Steam exist and financially prosper (it really does extremely well) BECAUSE the games on there are easy to pirate? And how are they easier to pirate than PC games before that? Dubious logic.
b) People who buy games on PC do so because they want the superior version, the problem isn't some small fee. I've seen countless ex-console-only gamers jump ship to PC in the last year because of Steam and a superior experience overall (not only graphics but stuff like load times, mods (DayZ), better patch support and so on).
c) XBLive isn't really superior to Steam.

Edited by dr_crabman, Aug 8 2012, 8:34pm :

MorganX said,
No contest. Huh? to which part exactly? Steam games are cracked and pirated so fast I use torrents of steam games as my Trial before I buy the Xbox version.

So you bitch about Steam, when you use their versions of the game for piracy? As demos to your Xbox games?

Considering you seem only intent on "really" playing on the Xbox, did ya ever stop and think that maybe the rest of the PC gaming community might actually use Steam to say... oh, I dunno, buy their games legitimately to play on a platform they actually like? That it exists because maybe people don't like aiming with their thumbs? Or that there's a wide variety of games for the PC that aren't available on consoles?

No, that probably didn't cross your mind at all.

a) I never said they didn't sell games. There is an anti-GFWL community of Steam shill's that do not wish to pay for a Gold account and spread FUD such as GFWL DRM is worse or more intrusive than any other DRM.[quote=dr_crabman said,]

b) I agree. Arkham City for PC was definitely superior and GFWL. This isn't about PC vs. Console, it's about Steam v. GFWL/XfW

c) I believe that it is. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Since GFWL has a small annual fee for a closed environment, most who spread FUD against it, never actually have tried it.

>>Considering you seem only intent on "really" playing on the Xbox<<

Incorrect, unfortunately games on Steam are rarely available for the PC using GFWL and probably won't be available for XfW.

>>No, that probably didn't cross your mind at all<<

It is irrelevant to my point which focused squarely on those who pirate Steam games who are very anti-GFWL. Those who pay for games generally buy them wherever they are available. Those who spread anti-GFWL fud are generally pirates and those too cheap to even consider $38/yr. Open, free networks generally attract more riff raff where a child or teen can be exposed to all types of Internet freak gamers. Identification and non-repudiation are well worth the $38/yr alone if you have kids.

That's because using GFWL has been a horrible experience for myself and many others. Shouldn't something be decent first, making you want the premium experience? It has zero to do with being "too cheap", hell if you could see how many games my friends and I have on Steam alone, you should damn well know that people don't have issues dishing out money for games, especially with good sales. (hell, I'm broke and bought like 3-5 games on the summer sale)

If you like GFWL, that's totally cool by me. You're welcome to your own opinion. But to say Steam only exists for pirates? That my friend is just a complete lie. Hate the product or services you want, but don't make up lies about them. It just invalidates your argument completely and makes me not even want to take you seriously...

Steam has been heading rapidly down the crapper since the place got flooded with indie titles. I don't find much good on Steam now, due to the sea of **** they're all floating in.

And you think that Windows Store is not gonna get flooded with indie games, I bet it will be filled up even faster than Steam with all kinds of indie titles

MS Pandya said,
Steam has been heading rapidly down the crapper since the place got flooded with indie titles. I don't find much good on Steam now, due to the sea of **** they're all floating in.

Really, so apart from EA who have their tiny own (horrible) store, what other companies have you had difficulty finding?

I find Steam to offer the best discounts during holidays, fast (re)download of titles to counter any current platform. So it has a bit of DRM which isn't great but it's certainly not as intrusive as some others.

MS Pandya said,
Steam has been heading rapidly down the crapper since the place got flooded with indie titles. I don't find much good on Steam now, due to the sea of **** they're all floating in.

Uhmmm... if anything you have a broader choice.
If you can't find stuff on Steam, here's an idea: check out the sales lists that get released -for example- on Neowin (like with the Summer Sale) or check out Amazon.com or any other site for finding games... chances are good you'll find it on Steam then.

Oh and I know some might not like indie titles, but really, I personally think some of the indie titles are leaps and bounds better than "AAA" titles, simply because they have soul and weren't made to just make more money as is often the case... *cough* EA *cough*
But if you still like some of the AAA titles better, that's cool, not judging, just saying that more choice might be distracting to you, but it takes nothing away from you and gives others so much.
I bet in other situations this would be the same but flipped around for you and others - so be grateful, you never know when you'll sit on the other side of the table.

GS:win

MS Pandya said,
Steam has been heading rapidly down the crapper since the place got flooded with indie titles. I don't find much good on Steam now, due to the sea of **** they're all floating in.

What? The awesome indie games on there are the reason why people love Steam and it's not hard to filter out the good ones if you spend a minimal amount of time on let's rockpapershotgun.com or in gaming forums. Not much good? PC gaming hasn't been this healthy and diverse since I don't know when.

MS Pandya said,
Steam has been heading rapidly down the crapper since the place got flooded with indie titles. I don't find much good on Steam now, due to the sea of **** they're all floating in.

You must not know about this awesome feature known as "search"... If you don't like Steam, that's cool. But don't sit around here making up arbitrary reasons for not liking it...

Lawls, Steam will go the way of the dodo. Windows Store will provide a larger audience, which means more money. Developers will all move away from Steam.

Why would they Steam is offered on Windows XP, Vista, 7 and 8, also on Mac and soon to be ported to Linux.
On the other hand Windows Store is available only on Windows 8/RT and mainly for Metro apps

s3n4te said,
Lawls, Steam will go the way of the dodo. Windows Store will provide a larger audience, which means more money. Developers will all move away from Steam.

Sticking to Steam because I like that my purchase is valid for multiple platforms and their promise to make everything DRM-free should they ever cease to exist.

For applications, well, that's something entirely different, I use the Mac App Store, my Windows doesn't really have non-game software.

GS:win

razr777 said,
Why would they Steam is offered on Windows XP, Vista, 7 and 8, also on Mac and soon to be ported to Linux.
On the other hand Windows Store is available only on Windows 8/RT and mainly for Metro apps

XP and Vista aren't going to be around forever, they're both losing share etc. The windows store is also by extension in Windows Phone and to a degree on Xbox, devs can get their games on all the platforms with some minor tweaks (which is the same for steam, steam doesn't mean your game automatically works on Windows and linux and OSX without the developer doing nothing, that's false.)

ahhell said,
Maybe not right away but in a year or so, definitely yes.

Not sure if trolling or just... I have almost 200 games on Steam. I will never ever switch from Steam to Windows store for my games. Millions of other Steam user will do the same.

cocoon said,

Not sure if trolling or just... I have almost 200 games on Steam. I will never ever switch from Steam to Windows store for my games. Millions of other Steam user will do the same.


Also I can buy boxed copies and then make them digital "purchases" with all the benefits of Steam, but still having a nice box on my shelf.

I know Xbox for Windows will be similar (I -HOPE-), but it's working so so well on Steam already, only a fraction of my games don't get this benefit (apart from really old games I didn't try so far of course, I don't know about some of them).

GS:win

razr777 said,

On the other hand Windows Store is available only on Windows 8/RT and mainly for Metro apps

I have a hunch that it will coincide with WP8's

cocoon said,

Not sure if trolling or just... I have almost 200 games on Steam. I will never ever switch from Steam to Windows store for my games. Millions of other Steam user will do the same.

I agree. I don't have quite as many games as you, but the people with steam accounts are life-long customers.

s3n4te said,
Lawls, Steam will go the way of the dodo. Windows Store will provide a larger audience, which means more money. Developers will all move away from Steam.

I LAWL'd so hard my RoflCopter crashed !

razr777 said,
Why would they Steam is offered on Windows XP, Vista, 7 and 8, also on Mac and soon to be ported to Linux.
On the other hand Windows Store is available only on Windows 8/RT and mainly for Metro apps

In a few years XP will be near nill, Vista too, 7 will be trailing off. The long game puts the MS Store on 70 to 80% of desktops if not higher. Frankly, if MS is as aggressive as they seem in pricing Win8. No doubt adoption will be significant 3 years out.

Also adding "soon to be ported to Linux" is pointless. Linux is a rounding error in market share. 1% or so after all these "years of linux."

s3n4te said,
Lawls, Steam will go the way of the dodo. Windows Store will provide a larger audience, which means more money. Developers will all move away from Steam.

Given that Valve's terms are almost certainly going to be a lot less restrictive I think it will interest developers more, particularly developers of desktop class applications.

I am Not PCyr said,

I LAWL'd so hard my RoflCopter crashed !

Right. F*ck the $500+ dollars worth of games in my Steam account, I'll just buy them all over again and stop using Steam. /sarcasm

MrHumpty said,

In a few years XP will be near nill, Vista too, 7 will be trailing off. The long game puts the MS Store on 70 to 80% of desktops if not higher. Frankly, if MS is as aggressive as they seem in pricing Win8. No doubt adoption will be significant 3 years out.

Also adding "soon to be ported to Linux" is pointless. Linux is a rounding error in market share. 1% or so after all these "years of linux."

The only thing holding me back from Linux is games. If WINE was better, or those games existed native, I would use Linux along with a bunch of other "power-users". I think Linux will get up to 5% market share in the next 3 years if Steam works out like Valve is hoping it will.

Vice said,
Interesting.

Yes, but I don't think this is going to work well. Steam is a single user multiple PC medium, and once multiple users want to use to same bought programs on a single PC, it becomes a hassle. Unless that obstacle is overcome, this won't be a good end well for Valve.

siah1214 said,
For anyone wondering why GabeN hates Windows 8, you now know why.

Yup, I don't think there was any doubt that the thing Gabe hates about Windows 8 is that it's actually competing with Steam for once with the store and xbox live integration. This move just makes it clear for those who think it was about something else.

flexkeyboard said,
that old fart...

Steam with DRM
Windows Store no DRM

take your pick

Another way to look at it is Windows Store = Windows 8. Steam = XP, Vista, 7, 8, OS X, Linux.

flexkeyboard said,
that old fart...

Steam with DRM
Windows Store no DRM

take your pick

I don't know where you got the ridiculous idea that the Windows Store would have no DRM, and as for Steam it is probably one of the most non-intrusive DRM systems there is. No discs to insert, no long keys to type in or activation or any other nonsense. You just install your game and run it, from any computer you want.

Only crashes a lot, is intrusive crappy app, crappy web store, crappy everything, takes forever to download anything, generally sucks, the community sucks, etc. etc. Another login with who knows what kind of security and controls.

I don't care for it but that's just my opinion. BTW, you can generally get a disc to insert in the mail before you can download something from steam. In fact, some games even though you have the disc, still want you to download them. garbage.

Windows store will have DRM. Some of us don't mind paying for our software.

flexkeyboard said,
that old fart...

Steam with DRM
Windows Store no DRM

take your pick

Vice said,
Another way to look at it is Windows Store = Windows 8. Steam = XP, Vista, 7, 8, OS X, Linux.
Linux has it's own packet manager and apple will never let valve to sell 3rd party apps.

flexkeyboard said,
that old fart...

Steam with DRM
Windows Store no DRM

take your pick


made me laugh... So wrong... Windows 8 is DRM too...

Anthonyd said,
Linux has it's own packet manager and apple will never let valve to sell 3rd party apps.

ios app yes.... mac app dont think so!!!

Anthonyd said,
Linux has it's own packet manager and apple will never let valve to sell 3rd party apps.

Valve already sell 3rd party apps on OS X. They are called Games. Do you not class Games as software? - Also Apple has no say over what other companies do on their OS X platform because it isn't locked down like iOS is.

Also yes Linux has its own, but so does OS X and Steam is already there. XP, Vista and 7 don't. Steam will cover all platforms which is something no other App store does.

MorganX said,
Only crashes a lot, is intrusive crappy app, crappy web store, crappy everything, takes forever to download anything, generally sucks, the community sucks, etc. etc. Another login with who knows what kind of security and controls.

I don't care for it but that's just my opinion. BTW, you can generally get a disc to insert in the mail before you can download something from steam. In fact, some games even though you have the disc, still want you to download them. garbage.

Takes forever to download anything? All of your other points I can look past, but that sounds like a very personal crappy internet problem or not choosing a different content server.

MorganX said,
Only crashes a lot, is intrusive crappy app, crappy web store, crappy everything, takes forever to download anything, generally sucks, the community sucks, etc. etc. Another login with who knows what kind of security and controls.

I don't care for it but that's just my opinion. BTW, you can generally get a disc to insert in the mail before you can download something from steam. In fact, some games even though you have the disc, still want you to download them. garbage.

Your joking right? I've never had steam crash on me. The downloads are pretty fast (when steam isnt running a huge sale). A 5GB game downloads in less than an hour for me on steam.

flexkeyboard said,
that old fart...
Windows Store no DRM

The Windows Store has a 5 machine activation limit. You can unlicense a machine at any time, but the 5 machine limit is there, and it definitely is DRM.

MorganX said,
Only crashes a lot, is intrusive crappy app, crappy web store, crappy everything, takes forever to download anything, generally sucks, the community sucks, etc. etc. Another login with who knows what kind of security and controls.

I don't care for it but that's just my opinion. BTW, you can generally get a disc to insert in the mail before you can download something from steam. In fact, some games even though you have the disc, still want you to download them. garbage.

So lets see, it crash's a lot... I haven't had it crash in years. It takes forever to download, 5-30 minutes is a long time? Last I changed I could not get a disk in the mail in that time. Maybe you should get a decent computer and ISP, obviously yours both suck.

Vice said,
Valve already sell 3rd party apps on OS X. They are called Games. Do you not class Games as software? - Also Apple has no say over what other companies do on their OS X platform because it isn't locked down like iOS is.

Also yes Linux has its own, but so does OS X and Steam is already there. XP, Vista and 7 don't. Steam will cover all platforms which is something no other App store does.

You won't be able to buy OS X apps that are already into the apple store since apple won't allow VALVe to take their 30% cut, simple as that. I don't see any OS X app being sold on steam and not on the apple store, it's stupid since steam isn't installed on 100% of Macs.

You can already buy digital apps on XP, Vista and 7, unless they do a massive sales it won't change anything. (pirates will keep pirating, others will use free software or apps maker website).

flexkeyboard said,

Steam with DRM
Windows Store no DRM

Are you really that naive that you think the Windows Marketplace won't have DRM?

Anthonyd said,
You won't be able to buy OS X apps that are already into the apple store since apple won't allow VALVe to take their 30% cut, simple as that. I don't see any OS X app being sold on steam and not on the apple store, it's stupid since steam isn't installed on 100% of Macs.

You can already buy digital apps on XP, Vista and 7, unless they do a massive sales it won't change anything. (pirates will keep pirating, others will use free software or apps maker website).

Please, stop talking cack. What you're saying is just completely untrue. There are already other apps out there that sell OS X software such as MacUpdate. And the apps are both in that store and on the App Store. And games sold on Steam are also in the App Store so please just stop spreading lies.

TRC said,

I don't know where you got the ridiculous idea that the Windows Store would have no DRM, and as for Steam it is probably one of the most non-intrusive DRM systems there is. No discs to insert, no long keys to type in or activation or any other nonsense. You just install your game and run it, from any computer you want.

Also, Offline support is solid with Steam. Even though you can totally cheat it by forcing a computer offline they still keep it because for some customers it is very much needed.

MorganX said,
Only crashes a lot, is intrusive crappy app, crappy web store, crappy everything, takes forever to download anything, generally sucks, the community sucks, etc. etc. Another login with who knows what kind of security and controls.

I don't care for it but that's just my opinion. BTW, you can generally get a disc to insert in the mail before you can download something from steam. In fact, some games even though you have the disc, still want you to download them. garbage.

Umm... I never have had Steam crash on me. The other part here is that when you install a game and it needs to download more then it's probably because there has been updates since they made the disc (or finalized it depending...) and when you installed it. Steam does make you install the most recent updates but so does any xbox or ps3 game (if you want to stay online during play). Just saying...

MorganX said,
Only crashes a lot, is intrusive crappy app, crappy web store, crappy everything, takes forever to download anything, generally sucks, the community sucks, etc. etc. Another login with who knows what kind of security and controls.

I don't care for it but that's just my opinion. BTW, you can generally get a disc to insert in the mail before you can download something from steam. In fact, some games even though you have the disc, still want you to download them. garbage.

Reinstall steam if you are genuinely having woes but it's much more liely your just trolling, and consider changing internet provider if your download speeds are turd...

Vice said,

Another way to look at it is Windows Store = Windows 8. Steam = XP, Vista, 7, 8, OS X, Linux.


Another way to look at it is we're talking about 2015:
Windows Store = Windows 8 market Share Lets say 50% going with Win7 Adoption
Steam = Win7 59% - OSX 10% - Linux 1%

My guess is that Windows 8 Share will be higher by then.

Oh man, when the black friday and christmas sales go on, that means software will be on sale to on steam!!!!

As for linux, lawl, steam on Linux will have DRM to. Itll only be on crapbuntu also.

siah1214 said,
For anyone wondering why GabeN hates Windows 8, you now know why.

Maybe we need a whole new News story just for this guys comment and the million unrelated replies he's gotten so far. DRM DRM DRM OH NOEEESSS !!!11

I replied to so..
It looks that way but your not Gabe so that seems like a bit of jumping to conclusions to say the least.. You can read his mind ? Can you read mine then then ?
Windows 8 sucks.. that's right you got it right
And maybe that's why Gave doesn't like it ?
Believe it or not, everyone that hates windows 8 isn't competing
with Microsoft for a content delivery platform lol

flexkeyboard said,
that old fart...

Steam with DRM
Windows Store no DRM

take your pick

Actually, they will both have exactly the same DRM. It will check your installed applications against your username and password and if a purchase for that app has been made to your account it will authorise you to download and install that app.

Steam's DRM is completely transparent. Doesn't get in the way of games AT ALL.

TRC said,

I don't know where you got the ridiculous idea that the Windows Store would have no DRM, and as for Steam it is probably one of the most non-intrusive DRM systems there is. No discs to insert, no long keys to type in or activation or any other nonsense. You just install your game and run it, from any computer you want.

yeah like those cdkeys that dont work, for a GTA,, rolleyes digital games should not have cdkey or serial in the first place.

MorganX said,
Only crashes a lot, is intrusive crappy app, crappy web store, crappy everything, takes forever to download anything, generally sucks, the community sucks, etc. etc. Another login with who knows what kind of security and controls.

I don't care for it but that's just my opinion. BTW, you can generally get a disc to insert in the mail before you can download something from steam. In fact, some games even though you have the disc, still want you to download them. garbage.

You must live in the back hole of nowhere and have a PC 10 years old as Steam "never" crashes for me and the download speeds are brilliant, as for the community sucking, is that because nobody wanted to be your friend?

Vice said,

Valve already sell 3rd party apps on OS X. They are called Games. Do you not class Games as software? - Also Apple has no say over what other companies do on their OS X platform because it isn't locked down like iOS is.

OS X is increasingly locked down, by default Gatekeeper does not allow you to install software that isn't from the Mac App Store. You can turn it off, but will the average Mac user do that?

Vice said,

Another way to look at it is Windows Store = Windows 8. Steam = XP, Vista, 7, 8, OS X, Linux.

And yet another way to look at is:

Windows Store = preinstalled on 500 million+ Windows 8/RT machines.
Steam = preinstalled on nothing.

Windows Store = Windows Media Player = Internet Explorer
Steam = Real Player = Netscape

Avatar Roku said,

And yet another way to look at is:

Windows Store = preinstalled on 500 million+ Windows 8/RT machines.
Steam = preinstalled on nothing.

Windows Store = Windows Media Player = Internet Explorer
Steam = Real Player = Netscape

And then the European Union steps in and forces Microsoft to offer other stores on their OS just like the IE thing. haha

Kaedrin said

The Windows Store has a 5 machine activation limit. You can unlicense a machine at any time, but the 5 machine limit is there, and it definitely is DRM.


I think the point they were making is the DRM antics Steam and titles from Steam have been less than 'smooth' often causing nightmarish problems not only with the software, but system installed crap that can create additional problems.

There is a difference between using the OS managed vault and account technology ALREADY present in Windows, and using intrusive additional running software that causes problems.

(And Yes, Windows 7 has built in Vault/Credential technology built in, that sadly Steam and other publishers/developers just do not use because they do not realize it is there.)

So if you have the choice have a highly secure and screened Application purchase, or one from Steam that is less screened and adds in goofy DRM services, people will not be in love with Steam. (Steam does NOT have the technology to see all code intent like Microsoft's technology can with WinRT.)

Microsoft SPECIFICALLY stated that Windows 8 Store was NOT to compete with technologies like Steam, and yet Steam wants to compete with Windows 8 Store anyway.

The Windows 8 Store with traditional application listing could shove users to software publisher links and then on to Steam for purchase and download, it is designed to work with independent software companies or companies that use Steam.

This is why it is a bit insane of Steam to try to circumvent Windows 8 Store or even see it as a threat, as it would be the best TOOL for people to find software Steam distributes as well, because it CAN be listed.

If Steam thinks Apps (WinRT) developers are going to use Steam, they and the developers are foolish to try to compete in this space, as Microsoft wants Apps (WinRT) to be secure and screened.

Regarding Apps (WinRT) Steam also does not possess the technology to post compile/port Apps like Microsoft's servers can do. Create a WinRT App, and even if Microsoft creates Windows 8 for several other platforms beyond x86,x64,ARM - the Microsoft servers can convert the existing Applications to the new platform for almost all the Apps.

This is what Microsoft servers are doing for WP7 to WP8 Apps, as they are making the WP7 Apps run native to WP8 even with the core kernel differences. Seamless porting.

Steam is misguided and by distancing themselves from Microsoft are cheating themselves, as Microsoft has provided a 'void' to be filled by companies like Steam, and they are crapping all over it and Microsoft.

Of course the Steam/Value thing could be publicity only, and they could be having good relationship internally with Microsoft, which they have done in the past to get non-Microsoft fan support in the public, while taking advantage of Microsoft agnostic generosity that they provide to developers and partners. (Just like Microsoft has done with Apple over the years, outside of public perception, they have a tight internal history of working together.)

threetonesun said,

Hah... haha... ahhhhh.

I guess I chose Linux, then.

Have fun, choosing a mangled platform with 1/100th the leading software titles will bring you lots of opportunity. (Opportunity to run VMs and Wine solutions, to get software running at a fraction of the speed.)

Also for gaming, Linux just cannot touch Windows 7 or Windows 8 in technology or performance. The way Windows 8's kernel has GPU scheduling and management, there is no way for Linux to EVER compete in high end gaming or high end computing anymore.

They lost this war about 6 years ago, and made no attempt to progress forward or change course.

A MODERN OS must manage GPU resources, processing, scheduling to utilize GP-GPU along with 3D and drawing technologies without applications fighting each other.

Linux's use of the GPU is like the world before CPU preemptive multi-tasking, software fighting for use of CPU resources and able to hold up other processes.
Sadly, the same is true today of Linux (OS X, FreeBSD, etc.), and there is no OS kernel management or control of GPU resources.

This is NOT true of Windows since Vista, the NT kernel manages the GPU, ensuring that a complex engineering Application using GP-GPU functionality will NEVER hamper the GPU for UI operations or responsiveness. This is why the desktop in Windows 7 is always responsive and even demanding GPU applications like games can run side by side, as the OS manages the GPU scheduling, NOT the applications.

I know people 'still' want to love Linux, or even FreeBSD or OSX, but the core needs of modern technology needs more than they offer. This has been coming since 2005, and instead of paying attention to what Microsoft was SAYING and doing with the XBox 360 and Windows NT, they dismissed the technologies, and even made fun of it, and it was at their own peril, because Microsoft was right and still is with regard to treating the GPU and other processes like a CPU.

Vice said,

Another way to look at it is Windows Store = Windows 8. Steam = XP, Vista, 7, 8, OS X, Linux.

Ya, not so much. Apple won't let Steam dabble beyond legacy/gaming. Linux has NO need for them. XP is disappearing rather rapidly.

Windows 7 gaming is the only place they have a home out of that list. So they need to call Microsoft and schedule a meeting to pucker up and kiss butt.

Microsoft SPECIFICALLY designed the Windows Store to work with Steam distribution technologies, as they DO NOT want to distribute or provide legacy applications. This is a big market for all publishers and distributors.
*This is why Valve and Steam are being really stupid and instead of working with the technologies are shooting themselves in the foot.

They could work with the Store to make it their greatest entry point for sales, as non-WinRT titles are listed and link to the publisher and can have links through Steam for distribution.

And yet they are so 'ignorant' they see the Windows 8 Store as 'bad' or competition. They need people that understand what is going on, and instead of crapping on potential, use it.


BTW
The Windows Store, is available via the Web for Windows XP, Vista, 7...

thenetavenger said,

Ya, not so much. Apple won't let Steam dabble beyond legacy/gaming. Linux has NO need for them. XP is disappearing rather rapidly.

Ya, not so much aka yes Steam will be selling Apps on XP, Vista, 7, 8, OS X and Linux. I love how people read a comment and just because they don't like it they make up facts in their head and just say NUH-UH!

The fact is Steam will be selling apps on all those platforms I listed. And Apple have no say on what Steam do as OS X is not a closed down system. Prove me wrong by showing facts. Other competitors to the App Store such as MacUpdate which sell apps directly to consumers on OS X already exist and as much as you don't like it, Steam is selling software on OS X right this second. Games are Apps people.

EDIT: I just seen the posting spree you've gone through in this comment chain, can't believe I wasted my time replying to you after the complete waffle you've laid out.

thenetavenger said,

Also for gaming, Linux just cannot touch Windows 7 or Windows 8 in technology or performance. The way Windows 8's kernel has GPU scheduling and management, there is no way for Linux to EVER compete in high end gaming or high end computing anymore.

Unigine benchmark results beg to disagree with you.

Vice said,

Ya, not so much aka yes Steam will be selling Apps on XP, Vista, 7, 8, OS X and Linux. I love how people read a comment and just because they don't like it they make up facts in their head and just say NUH-UH!

The fact is Steam will be selling apps on all those platforms I listed. And Apple have no say on what Steam do as OS X is not a closed down system. Prove me wrong by showing facts. Other competitors to the App Store such as MacUpdate which sell apps directly to consumers on OS X already exist and as much as you don't like it, Steam is selling software on OS X right this second. Games are Apps people.

EDIT: I just seen the posting spree you've gone through in this comment chain, can't believe I wasted my time replying to you after the complete waffle you've laid out.

Wow. You just contributed absolutely nothing. Yes, steam will be selling on XP, Vista, 7, 8, OS X and Linux what he has said is that they are being ignorant by blatantly ignoring the fact that Windows 8 is there with a store, that they can use to their advantage. Microsoft aren't taking cuts from desktop software, nor are they hosting it. This is intentional, they could have easily done it but they didn't want to **** off these distribution companies that already exist.

As for OSX and linux... whatever... their market share is of no concern and I'm sorry but the "year of the linux desktop" is not going to happen basically because there too much informality, but thats irrelevant.

PS Steam have made virtually no money from the Mac version off Steam AND if they want Apple can, as of ML limit the installation of Steam if it becomes too much competition with their store by setting it up as a "security threat"

Anyway.

thenetavenger said,

Have fun, choosing a mangled platform with 1/100th the leading software titles will bring you lots of opportunity. (Opportunity to run VMs and Wine solutions, to get software running at a fraction of the speed.)

Also for gaming, Linux just cannot touch Windows 7 or Windows 8 in technology or performance. The way Windows 8's kernel has GPU scheduling and management, there is no way for Linux to EVER compete in high end gaming or high end computing anymore.

Here we go again with the blatant lies... I can do anything you can do on Windows for free on GNU/Linux. I don't need to pay 2k for proprietary Windows software when I can do the exact same thing for free with high quality FOSS on GNU/Linux.

As for gaming, did you completely miss the Valve blog where L4D2 ran 20% faster on GNU/Linux and OpenGL than Windows and Direct3D? Here it is if you missed it: http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-zombies/

It's time for you to stop telling these blatant lies thenetavenger.

thenetavenger said,

They lost this war about 6 years ago, and made no attempt to progress forward or change course.

A MODERN OS must manage GPU resources, processing, scheduling to utilize GP-GPU along with 3D and drawing technologies without applications fighting each other.

Blah blah blah. More lies again. Any evidence to backup these claims? Or are you just making this rubbish up as normal?

thenetavenger said,

Linux's use of the GPU is like the world before CPU preemptive multi-tasking, software fighting for use of CPU resources and able to hold up other processes.
Sadly, the same is true today of Linux (OS X, FreeBSD, etc.), and there is no OS kernel management or control of GPU resources.

You don't have a clue how GPU's, drivers, or kernels work. The kernel doesn't manage GPU resources, that's down to the driver. Sheesh, for someone who bangs on about the NT kernel and GPU's so much I would have thought you'd know that, but I guess it just goes to show, you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. I very much doubt you've even used GNU/Linux in your life.

thenetavenger said,

More nonsense...

You should win an award for talking the least factually correct of anyone on this site. Everything you say is either an outright lie or based on monumental ignorance.

Enron said,
What does Steam do that Windows Store doesn't?

It will sell desktop class apps, and unlike the RT store it won't just be a redirected link, they will automatically update. I guess you like Angry Birds and fart apps?

Enron said,
What does Steam do that Windows Store doesn't?

Supports non-RT apps and runs on multiple platforms. Not much really...

ingramator said,

Wow. You just contributed absolutely nothing. Yes, steam will be selling on XP, Vista, 7, 8, OS X and Linux what he has said is that they are being ignorant by blatantly ignoring the fact that Windows 8 is there with a store, that they can use to their advantage. Microsoft aren't taking cuts from desktop software, nor are they hosting it. This is intentional, they could have easily done it but they didn't want to **** off these distribution companies that already exist.

As for OSX and linux... whatever... their market share is of no concern and I'm sorry but the "year of the linux desktop" is not going to happen basically because there too much informality, but thats irrelevant.

PS Steam have made virtually no money from the Mac version off Steam AND if they want Apple can, as of ML limit the installation of Steam if it becomes too much competition with their store by setting it up as a "security threat"

Anyway.

Here we go another waffle king making up facts. At-least you have a Windows logo as an avatar to easily identify your bias ahead of time.

MorganX said,
Only crashes a lot, is intrusive crappy app, crappy web store, crappy everything, takes forever to download anything, generally sucks, the community sucks, etc. etc. Another login with who knows what kind of security and controls.

I don't care for it but that's just my opinion. BTW, you can generally get a disc to insert in the mail before you can download something from steam. In fact, some games even though you have the disc, still want you to download them. garbage.

Steam crash ?

I can't even remember the last time Steam crashed for me.

Javik said,

It will sell desktop class apps, and unlike the RT store it won't just be a redirected link, they will automatically update. I guess you like Angry Birds and fart apps?

No, I was just asking an honest question. While I appreciate the answer, I'm not sure why you are jumping to conclusions and being so condescending. You'd be a poor salesman. If I walked into a car dealership and asked what does car A have that car B doesn't, you don't just list two features and then say "I guess you just want to ride a bicycle to work then."