Steven Sinofsky leaves Microsoft, effective immediately

Steven Sinofsky, the head of Windows and the guy who presided over the launch of both Windows 8 and the Surface, has officially left Microsoft effective immediately. According to a Microsoft press release announcing the leadership shakeup, Julie Larson-Green will be promoted to head of all Windows software and hardware engineering, while CFO and CMO Tami Reller takes on the business of Windows.

AllThingsD reports that there has been growing tension between Sinofsky and other executives at Microsoft, and the two decided to part ways mutually. Sinfosky has been at Microsoft since 1989, working mostly in the Office unit before his promotion to President of the Windows Division in 2009. His duties as President included work on Internet Explorer, Outlook.com, SkyDrive and other (former) Live services, as well as restoring the Windows division after Vista's less than desirable launch.

In a press release by Microsoft, CEO Steve Ballmer says:

I am grateful for the many years of work that Steven has contributed to the company. The products and services we have delivered to the market in the past few months mark the launch of a new era at Microsoft.... To continue this success it is imperative that we continue to drive alignment across all Microsoft teams, and have more integrated and rapid development cycles for our offerings

Sinofsky follows by saying:

It is impossible to count the blessings I have received over my years at Microsoft. I am humbled by the professionalism and generosity of everyone I have had the good fortune to work with at this awesome company

The Verge also has this letter, written by Steve Ballmer to the team on Sinofsky's departure:

Over the past few months we have delivered the foundation for a new era for Microsoft. From Office to Bing to Windows Phone and Windows Azure, to Xbox and of course Windows and Surface and everything in between, we’ve unleashed a huge wave of devices and services that people and businesses love. I simply couldn’t be more proud of the effort you have all put in to get us here and to set the foundation for our future. At the Windows launch in New York, at the Windows Phone event in San Francisco, and again at the Build event on Redmond campus, I was struck that while externally many people look at these events as the finish line, they really represent the starting line of a new era.

As we enter this new era, and with the successful launch of Windows 8 and Surface behind us, Steven Sinofsky has decided to leave the company. Steven joined Microsoft in 1989 as a software development engineer and has contributed to the company in many ways from his work as a technical advisor to Bill Gates, to leading the evolution of the Microsoft Office business, to his direction and successful leadership of Windows and Windows Live as well as Surface. I am grateful for the work that Steven has delivered in his time at our company. Effective immediately, Julie Larson-Green will lead Windows engineering. She will be responsible for all product development for Windows and Windows Live, in addition to Surface. Julie has been a stalwart leader of building compelling “experiences” from her time on Internet Explorer, through the evolution of Office and most recently to the re-imagination of Windows. Her unique product and innovation perspective and proven ability to effectively collaborate and drive a cross company agenda will serve us well as she takes on this new leadership role. All of the current Windows engineering teams will report into Julie, and Julie will report to me.

Tami Reller will lead business and marketing strategy for Windows including Surface and partner devices. She will provide broad stewardship to our PC marketing efforts while managing the line business functions for Windows. Her work on Windows since 2007 has been exemplary and her strong talents in working with internal groups and partners will also serve us well. Tami also will report to me.

We are facing a time of great opportunity. What we have accomplished over the past few years is nothing short of amazing, and I know we have more amazing in us. I am excited about our people, I am energized by our ability to change and grow, and I look forward to the success which lies ahead. Thank you for all you do, and please join me in congratulating our new leadership and celebrating all that we have accomplished so far.

Steve

This departure is perhaps as surprising as the departure of Scott Forstall from Apple late last month, and the future of Microsoft's Windows division could be very different without Sinofsky at the head.

Source: AllThingsD | PR | Image courtesy of fukapon via Wikipedia

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All the idiots who keep saying, the start button is the issue and the UI is the issue, really need to grow up. Whether I build my own PC or buy a branded one, I use the start menu maybe once or twice. I use after I install all my apps and I create either desktop shortcuts or pin them to the taskbar. With the Windows shortcuts, you don't even need the start menu. IT'S OLD - GET OVER IT. However, using the the new touch UI as the app launcher is also not that great of an idea.

Even tho I personally have no issue navigating the UI with a mouse or keyboard, I rarely use the new UI for anything. When I install apps, I hurry an remove any icons created and pin them to the taskbar. I open the Metro UI only to use a few of the options provided. I love the slick integration of Facebook/Yahoo Messenger into the Messaging application. Even tho I have download some RT based apps, I haven't had time to use them as yet so I won't commit on that front.

The only thing I am concerned with about this executive position change is, if they chose the right person for the job. Let's go back in time a bit. I am not saying that females are bad at UI design. What I will say is ones I am aware of have failed.

First, Microsoft Bob's UI failed. The concept of the idea which Gates came up with was good. The overall look of the UI was terrible. Who designed it? It was designed by Gates future wife to be, Melina.

Office 2007 and the introduction of the ribbon UI. As stated above the UI was designed by Green. Was it a good idea? I started using Office with Office 95 and every version afterwards kept the general style and look. everything was familiar. Office 2007 introduced a fancy menu for the same tasks. Instead of a gradual change, it was to radical to quick. Much like the move from XP which basically kept the general look and fell of Windows 9x, to Vista which was an abrupt shock. The new Ribbon UI was hated for quite a while, but MS stuck with it. I think an option to go back to the default one we all know would have been nice, but then what si the point of spending time and money to make changes? Sometimes it not about what people want. My argument is also, people will say well its the same old application, why gloss it with new UI changes and stick another number on it? If it is new, it needs to not only be named new, it needs to look new. Would u consider a new car to be new if it looks exactly like the model before it? I wouldn't...look at Apple. In 6 years they have made basically 2 phones. # years each they looked all alike. The original iPhone, the 3G and 3GS all look so much alike that you can't tell them part unless you are close to them. Same for the next 3 models. Same for the iPad. No innovation, just subtle boring stupid changes. Those things don't make the product new or fresh.

Now we have Windows 8 UI. It is specifically designed for Touch. The tight integration of the phone, the desktop and Xbox, require that they all care a similar look and feel. Microsoft needed to get into tyhis market as fast as possible. This is only the first rendition.

Last I checked, Windows Phone 7, Android 1.0, iPhone OS 1.0 and ealt versions of Windows, OSX, Mac OS were all clumsy, ugly half-assed UI's that sucked on first usage. Over time those progressed and evolved to mainstays. This was a radical change that will surely be improved with the next version.

I am perfectly okay with the death of the start menu. It was tiring, fairly useless and outdated. Many class 1 operating systems don't have such a button. yes it has been part of Windows since Windows 95 and NT. SO WHAT! Its a 3 decade old concept, let it die.

No one is begging anyone here to buy Windows 8. I wasn't at first, but for $40 I see nothing to cry about. IE10 is amazing, its faster than Windows 7 even on the same hardware which means I don't have to buy anything. The Metro UI skin? I could care less. I use it when I have too and I move it when I don't need it. very simple, very easy, nothing to complain about.

All these idiots here who think you can do better? Then sit in front of your PC and make it for us, sell it on the open market and we will decide if it is better. Looks aren't everything. Microsoft has always been about function. You may not like the approach and it hasn't always worked, but they must be doing something right. They are still here and they aren't going anywhere. They have never been knocking on the door of bankruptcy...can you say the same for others I could name?

@yowanvista

I am not an MS Fanboi... are you calling the touchscreen OS a failure based on sales? Cost comparisons? Functionality? I actually like it, so I am curious as to whether you are buying into a popular MS bashing trend, or speaking from actual experience.

He has done a lot of good for Microsoft... it's a shame it had to come to this. I wonder what the underlying cause is... certainly not for turning Windows around after Vista.

well after windows 8 debacle and current state of affair its a way to accept responsibility....

Lets see if windows phone 8 survived this mess, but so far i dont see any sign of positive change, windows 8 needs to be fixed and M$ should acknowledge it....

This needs a lot of clarification and since it was going to make news and none was provided that is interesting. I can speculate but there is plenty of that already in here lol
I am skeptical that it had anything specific to do with win 8 if anything the overall direction they took with maybe but i doubt it. The timing of Windows 8's release and his leaving IS a bit coincidental though so i can't blame people for being suspicious on that angle.
So fired or not ?
I guess we'll be seeing more on this story..

Hmmm. Lets factor this out - Ballmer says Windows RT sales are Modest and the guy responsible is fired... Yup, Surface RT is not the iPad killer people want. Truth is discovered finally. Maybe the Surface Pro will be the "one" or may be the second coming of Windows Pen Extensions (remember that on XP?). We will have to wait and see.

NeoPogo said,
Hmmm. Lets factor this out - Ballmer says Windows RT sales are Modest and the guy responsible is fired... Yup, Surface RT is not the iPad killer people want. Truth is discovered finally. Maybe the Surface Pro will be the "one" or may be the second coming of Windows Pen Extensions (remember that on XP?). We will have to wait and see.

1. That's not what Ballmer said. That has since been clarified, so please keep up.
2. StevenSi left. There is a difference between being fired and leaving.

How the hell does this thread have over 170+ replies? Was it because someone left a company with a Golden parachute or is it some deeper meaning that I am not seeing?

There were tons of rumors about how the DevDiv wanted .NET and C# and managed code everywhere while WinDiv wanted C++ and native code and tried not to use managed code. If they were true, Sinofsky's departure may have been caused by Midori (or whatever its final name is), which would make the entire WinDiv switch to managed code for almost everything.

Coming soon - "Windows 8 - Desktop Edition".
Marketing subtitle - "You spoke and we listened".
Well, one can but hope.

"I've always advocated using the break between product cycles as an opportunity to reflect and to look ahead, and that applies to me too.
...
After more than 23 years working on a wide range of Microsoft products, I have decided to leave the company to seek new opportunities that build on these experiences.
...
Some might notice a bit of chatter speculating about this decision or timing. I can assure you that none could be true as this was a personal and private choice that in no way reflects any speculation or theories one might read - about me, opportunity, the company or its leadership.

As I've always believed in making space for new leaders as quickly as possible, this announcement is effective immediately and I will assist however needed with the transition.
...
Steven Sinofsky

Sent from Surface RT"

I have decided to leave the company to seek new opportunities that build on these experiences = It is the buzzterm for fired.

Brony said,
I have decided to leave the company to seek new opportunities that build on these experiences = It is the buzzterm for fired.

Not necessarily...but glad you think so.

its very simple.

If something was selling well due to the guy that maged that team you dont fire them

if its not selling well and bad feedback you fire them

Proves windows 8 OR surface is a failure.

Example HSBC dont fire their top trader who earns them £££ just because they wanted a mix up. BUT if the trader is losing them £££ then they fire him.

simplez

But, he didn't get fired did he? Nor is anyone within the retail industry even alluding too Windows 8 performing disappointingly.

~Johnny said,
But, he didn't get fired did he? Nor is anyone within the retail industry even alluding too Windows 8 performing disappointingly.

Bingo!

"have more .. rapid development cycles" - I especially hope this applies to Internet Explorer which has been significantly lagging behind other web browser offerings since... well, IE6 (!)

Wow, finally... Woo Hoo!

In case anyone doesn't follow the politics of technology, trust me when I say this is a really good thing.

For example...

If you look back at one of the major 'software' reasons that TabletPC didn't do well it was the departure from support for the Ink and TabletPC technologies in Office, that was the sole responsibility of Sinofsky.

Office when TabletPC launched initially had a brilliant level of Ink and touch support, that was 'removed' in the subsequent versions. For example, one of the main features of TabletPC and Word was the ability to pen a letter or document in your own handwriting, and still have all the features of the wordprocessor to arrange, edit and modify the handwritten text. (You can probably still find a video of this being demonstrated by Bill Gates.) It kept both the Ink and the recognized text, so spell check worked on your handwritten text.

Sinofsky didn't like the work that this feature required of the Office team and ripped it out and shunned inherent TabletPC support in Word and Excel, instead relying on the OS level handwriting popups for input and limited Ink editing. This crippled TabletPC for writers and there were several other major integrated Ink features removed from Word and Excel as well.

The OneNote team even had to FIGHT to keep the Ink features. Also if you look at the 'mobile' versions Sinofsky is the reason Excel/Word/OneNote do not support handwriting on WP7, when it should have been an inherent feature.


This is just one example of how his decisions crippled what others at Microsoft were doing. He is a brilliant software engineer and understands platform concepts well, and is why the Office development and infrastructure is beyond robust, but when his decisions hurt Windows and other Microsoft brands, it was ego versus what was right for Microsoft.

I hope the people that pick up where he left off, realize the importance of things that Sinofsky shoved to the side and get them back with the cohesion that is still missing in many pieces of Windows 8. The killing of Live without having a strong replacement set of product in place, the low priority to Windows 8 Apps provided by Microsoft (Mail, Music, etc are just oK, and not the showcase Apps they should be.)

So, I hope he is off to do good things and isn't in a place to make horrible decisions that has hurt Microsoft.

As much as people realize I am a fan of Windows 8, there are things that his decisions kept the product from being even better, and I lost all technical respect for him as he pivoted on a few key issues that were stupid.

MsftGaurav said,
So they fired the Dictator and hired the biggest UI idiot ever as head of Windows?

The UI model of Windows 8 didn't come from him. You can blame him for the Office ribbon, but considering it has been a major success, it isn't a credible attack.

thenetavenger said,

The UI model of Windows 8 didn't come from him. You can blame him for the Office ribbon, but considering it has been a major success, it isn't a credible attack.

Office ribbon was a failure. Thanks to Ribbon 2007, most customers keeps with Office 2003 during years. Years later, Microsoft fixed the mess with Ribbon 2010.

thenetavenger said,

The UI model of Windows 8 didn't come from him. You can blame him for the Office ribbon, but considering it has been a major success, it isn't a credible attack.

The ribbon was a major success ? We must not live in the same world.

Guys, Guys.... You give Steven to much credit... He is still human!
He just did his job, and is going to find something else. How hard is that to believe. It's not like when someone works at Microsoft they stop caring about other things. He's proud about what he delivered and now it's time for a next chapter. Why is that so hard to believe...

He should have waited a little bit.Now its not a good time.Its like showing no faith to Windows 8 and he quits so he is not there to take the blame.It doesnt look good at all and i am surprised at that move of his,cause i always saw him as a real professional.

so its not because of windows 8 but because he is a bad team player he is the last person i would expect to leave Microsoft

I'm a big hater of Windows 8. I've used it a lot. I will use it on a tablet without an issue, I think it's perfect for that.

But seriously, the people coming in and saying it's a failure without even looking at official figures are just dumb.

This news came sort of like a shock (although stories about tension between Sinofsky and other heads had been floating around, remember the courier?).

However what is more shocking is the response to this. Haters will immediatly take this news to claim WIndows 8 a failure. Some would even go as far as to predict huge changes to Windows 8 comming through an update before the spring. How out of touch are these people?

Microsoft has committed to a new UI across all their platforms. They aren't going to abbandon it, even if innitial signs are poor. I'm a fan of WIndows 8 and even I expect innitial sales to be poor. Most consumers dont know about it and will only find out about it when they purchase a new PC. It is only after that when they're familiar with Windows 8, when they decide to get a tablet and pick one with Windows8 that we'll see a sales increase. As well as a future for Windows in the information age.

However taking this as a sign that Windows 8 has low sales/is a failure doesnt make any sense. For starters, Larson-Green loves the modern UI. I anything they're now more behind the modern UI then before. And so far all the signs have been positive:

- 75% says Win8 sold as expected
- 25% says WIn8 sold above expectations
- Surface sales have been 'fantastic'*

That's all we know right now. I understand some of you don't like Windows 8 but many actually do so without hard data it's only going to be 'he said/she said'. In no way is this enough for some of the predictions made in this comment section.

*('modest' was a misquote forcing Ballmer to reveal sales were actually fantastic)

Ronnet said,

However what is more shocking is the response to this. Haters will immediatly take this news to claim WIndows 8 a failure. Some would even go as far as to predict huge changes to Windows 8 comming through an update before the spring. How out of touch are these people?

Why?.

Windows 8 Metro interface is a disaster, nobody asked and nobody liked it. And do you know what is worst?. Well, Windows 8 features BOTH interface and both are not optional. What are they thinking?.

"AllThingsD reports that there has been growing tension between Sinofsky and other (FEMALE) executives at Microsoft, and the two decided to part ways mutually."

Ballmer will be next to go I guess.

Remember Windows ME?

Windows 8 is heading that way...

Before the "defend MS no matter what" guys reply, I think windows 8 is the perfect OS......
for tablet pcs and the like.
Just not for desktops, at the very least in the setup Microsoft should include an option to enable or disable metro crap and boot straight to the desktop surely its not that hard...
That way all you Microsoft apologisers can be happy and I can be happy, and Microsoft can sell more copies than ever... everybody wins!

Hitman2000 said,
Remember Windows ME?

Windows 8 is heading that way...

Before the "defend MS no matter what" guys reply, I think windows 8 is the perfect OS......
for tablet pcs and the like.
Just not for desktops, at the very least in the setup Microsoft should include an option to enable or disable metro crap and boot straight to the desktop surely its not that hard...
That way all you Microsoft apologisers can be happy and I can be happy, and Microsoft can sell more copies than ever... everybody wins!

Why not just pin desktop as the top left tile...and just press enter?

Voila.

BTW, I actually liked Windows ME. It worked perfectly well (even Hibernation) on the machines I used it on. I actually have my original box and CD around here somewhere.

Shane Nokes said,

Why not just pin desktop as the top left tile...and just press enter?

Voila.

yeh but it just annoys me having to do that, like I said would it not been simple for Microsoft to add an option of "boot straight to desktop", thereby making everybody happy..
Also the annoying thing is that when I alt tab out of games or other applications it still goes back to metro, why cant it go back to the desktop...

Shane Nokes said,
Why not just pin desktop as the top left tile...and just press enter?

Simple, because desktop users use the START BUTTON. They do not pin things anywhere, despite the lies Microsoft/Sinofsky used as the excuse for its removal.

Hitman2000 said,

yeh but it just annoys me having to do that, like I said would it not been simple for Microsoft to add an option of "boot straight to desktop", thereby making everybody happy..
Also the annoying thing is that when I alt tab out of games or other applications it still goes back to metro, why cant it go back to the desktop...

This is one thing I will agree with you, as it is a perceived removal of control from users that was not necessary.

Sinofsky made a bad decision on this by not allowing users to make the desktop the primary UI and the Metro UI secondary through a simple option.

Even if the Start Screen was left as the Start Menu replacement, it could have been offered in a more elegant way by simply offering an option to make the desktop the main UI, even if the Start Screen is used for search and other features.

Users are truly locked to Metro, but it seems that way and has created a lot of bad reactions, and this is just one of a million things Sinofsky has done in the past 10 years that are unforgiveable. (His killing of complete Ink support in Office which hurt TabletPC was another horrible decision.)

dvb2000 said,

Simple, because desktop users use the START BUTTON. They do not pin things anywhere, despite the lies Microsoft/Sinofsky used as the excuse for its removal.

Then uh, use the start button? Noone prevents you.

Skyfrog said,

You mean except for the fact that it doesn't exist in Windows 8.

Huh, what's that thing that pops up when I move my mouse to the bottom left corner...and what is this weird looking flag type button that has been on every single keyboard I have owned for the last 15 years...also what about this thing when I move to the top right and it pops out and has this button that says 'Start' underneath it.

Please advise...what are these strange things that all say 'Start' or show the traditional Windows logo (in the case of the keyboard)?

I could have sworn those were start buttons...

Should I be worried that these are imaginary and do not exist?

Please advise...

The Microsoft OS failure blame-game:

Windows ME - too soon after 98SE

Windows Vista - drivers and OEMs

Windows 8 - Sinofsky

Order_66 said,
The Microsoft OS failure blame-game:

Windows ME - too soon after 98SE

Windows Vista - drivers and OEMs

Windows 8 - Sinofsky

Sinofsky is also responsible for Windows 7...

Studio384 said,
Sinofsky is also responsible for Windows 7...

True, but I don't think that was the point

I've read that this guy is a bit of an ******* when it comes to getting what he wants. If he doesn't get it, he'll take it to Steve and get it because Steve acts as his bitch.

I really hope he's leaving because they now realise the removal of the start menu was a horrible idea and maybe they'll bring it back. Lol. I can hope.

Anyway. I don't think two people in a role like this is a good idea. What if the two bosses can't agree? Is it a case of run to Steve and plead your case?

Nashy said,
I've read that this guy is a bit of an ******* when it comes to getting what he wants. If he doesn't get it, he'll take it to Steve and get it because Steve acts as his bitch.

Anyone would be your bitch if everything you touched turned to gold.

I hope they keep the course they're going on the interface front despite his departure. Metro needs some refinements, and there needs to be better desktop integration, but I'm glad they made that bold step.

Anthony Tosie said,
I hope they keep the course they're going on the interface front despite his departure. Metro needs some refinements, and there needs to be better desktop integration, but I'm glad they made that bold step.

He wasn't behind the UI, so it should. The addition of the new UI was in play long before he took over Windows.

He however is the one that restricted features and didn't push for focus on getting the Windows Apps more refined.

For example, there is no reason he couldn't have left a 'desktop' as main UI option, and originally it was SUPPOSED to have this mode for business users, so that migration in enterprise would leave Windows 8 looking more like Windows 7 to make the transition seamless.

Even with the Start Screen as the new Start Menu concept, giving users the option to keep the desktop as the main UI, with pieces of the new UI enabled as uses wanted would not have been hard and is how it was supposed to be.

Go back and watch the original Windows 8 presentation ideas that told business specifically Win8 would offer the ability to look just like Win7, and this is where they also talked about the full time DWM that would enable the Glass look and effects even on older hardware for business so that the UI was consistent and not cause confusion with the need for Classic or Basic UI options.

A large portion of the software based composer and new DWM model was to keep consistency, and then at the last hour, this was all ripped out and done away with by Sinofsky.


thenetavenger said,

.

I like what you said here. Just so you know where i`m coming from, i`m not a 8ater or lover, it`s an OS, i have a copy and have no problems using it. It did seem though that Sinofsky was really prevalent in the pushing out of the whole "modern ui" with little regard for what went before.
Here`s something i witnessed today while shopping in a well known supermarket, you know the ones that have a big electrical section.
I was just looking at a Nexus 7 which was next to some non touchscreen laptops which were running Windows 8 but where at the desktop. A elder bloke and his wife came up to have a nosy, they had obviously used windows before because he had no problem with the touchpad, etc. Anyway he said "How do i get to the bit where i can look at my pictures and documents", clicked a few things and eventually got there by clicking the folder icon in the superbar. At this point a member of staff came over and showed them the new hot corner and modern ui. "Well that`s a bit stupid", his wife them chimed in, "How are we supposed to know that?".
Now i`m sure after a bit of practice they would have got used to it, but it just didn`t look or feel fluid to them using a touchpad.
Like i said earlier i don`t dislike Windows 8, i think sometimes innovations like this need to be gradually brought in before they become more generally accepted.
Maybe Sinofsky beat Ballmer at a round of golf, that`s the ultimate reason

Maybe with Julie at the Windows helm, she can help unify the Ribbon in File Explorer to look like the one in Office 2013. To me, that would make it look more like the rest of the UI updates in Windows 8. That, and change the stupid icon for Control Panel. I mean, c'mon.

Just to point out some information...

1. If course correction was going to happen it would have been with Julie leaving, not with her being handed more control.

2. Anyone who is throwing out conspiracy theories about succession or this being entirely about money or promotions is off-base.

3. Folks this happens a lot at companies. People leave when they've finished some big projects.

Often-times what happens here is that they've put in their time, made enough money to live comfortably, and decide to leave the corporate world they've known in order to work on something else they are passionate about.

I disliked the tone on your previous posts but I really think you nailed it on this one -- all three points make a lot of sense, specially the last one.

xfx said,
I disliked the tone on your previous posts but I really think you nailed it on this one -- all three points make a lot of sense, specially the last one.

Thanks. Generally I don't have a tone btw. I just post fairly straight-forward and people pu what tone they want into it.

^ this. I'm amazed by all the haters generating the bullsh*t.

Like Sinofksy leaves = Windows 9 will come with a start menu!!!!

Seriously, are you completely nuts? To begin with, we don't (and can't) even know if he left or was fired. It's just your stupid assumptions being taken as facts while they ARE NOT.

As if it was impossible for someone to simply leave because he just can't take the pressure anymore.

Sinofsky prolly made his best, but now he might be looking for new challenges, or a break. He prolly raked a sh*tload of cash to be able to.

Being a leader takes A LOT. Working till 2AM at nights for like 3 years is not necessarily fun, you know. And it is quite common among companies...

bviktor said,

Being a leader takes A LOT. Working till 2AM at nights for like 3 years is not necessarily fun, you know. And it is quite common among companies...

Indeed. I've had times where I slept on a futon, or a bench, or on top of a mat behind a stairwell to catch some shuteye. Putting in 12+ hour days for over 20 days in a row because of how much I cared about those who would end up using that project.

It's never easy, but always worth it, because in the end you can make a difference.

Dot Matrix said,
SOURCE: Sinofsky's Out At Microsoft Because He Wanted Steve Ballmer's Job

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com...osoft-2012-11#ixzz2C4CPh81D

in response to VCFAN as well.

Having been around people who've had a similar mentality in wanting to move up into a position that was not available nor was going to be available anytime soon, they quit and immediately moved into a newer higher position somewhere else. I've never seen someone quit, sit around, and say hey I'm CEO (or whatever) material.

If we see Steven within a week or so be announced as heading some new exciting venture/company/etc then you guys are correct. Otherwise he was forced out either because as some news articles are stating that he is/was difficult to deal with or because of poor Win 8 sales.

Condere said,

in response to VCFAN as well.

Having been around people who've had a similar mentality in wanting to move up into a position that was not available nor was going to be available anytime soon, they quit and immediately moved into a newer higher position someone else. I've never seen someone quit, sit around, and say hey I'm CEO (or whatever) material.

If we see Steven within a week or so be announced as heading some new exciting venture/company/etc then you guys are correct. Otherwise he was forced out either because as some news articles are stating that he is/was difficult to deal with or because of poor Win 8 sales.

Show me where Windows 8 is selling poorly, though.

(HINT: It's not.)

Dot Matrix said,

Show me where Windows 8 is selling poorly, though.

(HINT: It's not.)

For one, I'm not exactly in the Win8 sucks camps.

Secondly, show me where is it selling greatly?

4 million upgrades? How many CP/RTM downloads were there? With NeoWin forum member posting that that they've been upgrading all the PCs in their home, shouldn't that number be more?

Net Applications stats (FWIW)

week 10/14 -10/21 = 39%
week 10/21 - 10/28 = 59%
week 10/28 - 11/4 = 82%
week 11/4 - 11/11 = 91%

So, they've not even doubled their RTM pre-Oct 26th usage numbers in 2+ weeks?

MS Surface? As far as I remember, the only model to sell out was the entry level version and that was for what a week? I don't recall the other models selling out, nor did the Asus tablets sell out either.

Condere said,

MS Surface? As far as I remember, the only model to sell out was the entry level version and that was for what a week? I don't recall the other models selling out, nor did the Asus tablets sell out either.

They were all sold out for a while. The entry level version sold out the fastest, but it wasn't much longer before they were all sold out.

Lol at all the haters immediately saying he left because windows isn't selling. First of all its been proven its selling massively.

More likely is that windows 8 is selling so well sinofsky wanted some kind of big promotion and was denied so he quit. Notice how it says as we enter the new era of windows 8 and surface,Steven has decided to leave the company.

Wow. This is quite shocking... Though, it certainly doesn't sound like he's a team player, so it might be for the best...

wrack said,
What does that hand gesture mean?

I dunno but i bet that in Italy is an insult against the family, mom, virility or worst, to be called "own goal".

Oh to be a fly on the wall at Microsoft HQ! I'm enjoying Windows 8 and can't wait for the Surface Pro. I'm hoping that whatever changes this will bring, they'll be for the better. I'd hate for the Surface to become another Zune device.

Yeah I thought he would be a CEO too after Ballmer. I am sure other opportunities are lining up already for him.

Good luck

Love that tie! On a serious note, what the hell? Dude saved Microsoft from the Vista fiasco, with Windows 7 (fastest-selling OS of all time), also had another solid and timely release with Windows 8. This is absolutely nuts. He was definitely one of the most valued executives there. I'm completely shocked.

Lprd2007 said,
Dude saved Microsoft from the Vista fiasco, with Windows 7 (fastest-selling OS of all time), also had another solid and timely release with Windows 8.

He was there after Windows 7. He isn't after Windows 8. Co-incidence? Perhaps not.

Lprd2007 said,
Love that tie! Dude saved Microsoft from the Vista fiasco

Nobody has saved microsoft from the Vista fiasco, vista is still a colossal failure and has already gone down in history as a colossal failure, nobody ever "saved" it, unless you mean saving it in a usability sense with the release of SP2.

I just love how this was a "mutal" decision... that kinda screams MS had some worries about him being high up in addition to his wanting to move up and not going much higher with Balmer not moving

Steven was probably hoping Windows 8 would flop, Ballmer would get fired and he could take the job. That didn't happen so he left.
/s

Seriously though, all the people blaming this on Windows 8, why would they replace him with Julie Larson-Green? She was behind the ribbon in office 2007 and very much involved with the changes in 8. There will be no "course correction", this is the course they've chosen and by picking her they have solidified their determination to stay the course.

siah1214 said,

Seriously though, all the people blaming this on Windows 8, why would they replace him with Julie Larson-Green?

Because he was the one blocking the much needed fixes/tweaks to W8 for desktop users...and that's going to burn them this holiday season.

excalpius said,

Because he was the one blocking the much needed fixes/tweaks to W8 for desktop users...and that's going to burn them this holiday season.

Source? You keep going into multiple posts here acting like you know what is happening...so let's see it.

Shane Nokes said,

Source? You keep going into multiple posts here acting like you know what is happening...so let's see it.

Wonder who he learnt from......

Fritzly said,

Wonder who he learnt from......

You mean my posts where I comment on my direct knowledge gained from having spent years consulting and working directly with the people being discussed?

Not the same thing, and doubtful it was learned from me...nice try though.

Shane Nokes said,

You mean my posts where I comment on my direct knowledge gained from having spent years consulting and working directly with the people being discussed?

Not the same thing, and doubtful it was learned from me...nice try though.

Attitudes have nothing to do with knowledge and/or background...... nice attempt though.

Fritzly said,

Attitudes have nothing to do with knowledge and/or background...... nice attempt though.

Actually they do. Putting out an overly confident vibe based on a wealth of knowledge regarding a subject is not the same as putting out that same vibe and having no idea what you are talking about.

Those concepts are very different. One is about confidence and the ability to be willing to have people hate you for the knowledge. The other is about wanting to be viewed as important, and not knowing how to handle it when you're not liked.

I spent a good deal of my life being the latter. I wanted the attention, and the credit.

Now I don't care if I get the credit or not as long as the info is correct and someone is helped.

If you don't realize that attitudes and knowledge are very much tied together, then that's not my deal dude.

Namaste.

had a feeling this was coming eventually, the guy wanted to be in Balmers position, and that wasn't going to happen, I doubt this had anything to do with windows 8, more of a couldn't get where he wanted to be issue

neufuse said,
had a feeling this was coming eventually, the guy wanted to be in Balmers position, and that wasn't going to happen, I doubt this had anything to do with windows 8, more of a couldn't get where he wanted to be issue

That sounds sorta plausible.

scaramonga said,
Had to happen really, I hope more heads roll for the mess that is Windows 8.

You really think they're going to abandon Windows 8 and all those developers? Think again.

Dot Matrix said,

You really think they're going to abandon Windows 8 and all those developers? Think again.

Did you really think Sinofsky would be leaving, effective immediately?

scaramonga said,
Had to happen really, I hope more heads roll for the mess that is Windows 8.

Unfortunately, Microsoft seems entrenched with the direction of Windows 8.

scaramonga said,

Did you really think Sinofsky would be leaving, effective immediately?

If Steven isn't linked to head another high profile project/division/company in the news within a few weeks (ie strong Win8 sales opened up a too good to pass offer from someone to head something else instead of waiting for Balmer to retire), then yea, I'd gather this has something to do with poor Win8 sales.

mattmatik said,

Unfortunately, Microsoft seems entrenched with the direction of Windows 8.
There's a lot invested into it, plus it's doing really well. Why would this be linked to 8 or Surface, NEITHER of which are failing?

Dot Matrix said,
There's a lot invested into it, plus it's doing really well. Why would this be linked to 8 or Surface, NEITHER of which are failing?

Shh...you can't talk logic to some of the natives. They view it as a hostile attempt to invade their territory...the fabled land of Conspiratoria.

Dot Matrix said,
There's a lot invested into it, plus it's doing really well. Why would this be linked to 8 or Surface, NEITHER of which are failing?

Please tell me (and everyone else here) how you happen to know, factually, that Windows 8/RT are doing "really well" when

A) Microsoft has yet to release any OEM sales figures, and so far has only mentioned the 4 million "upgrades" sold
B) Ballmer has stated "modest" sales of Surface
C) Most reviews of the Surface are lack-luster at best
D) Most consumers I've seen looking at Win 8 / RT hardware are always asking the sales reps where the Win 7 gear is in stores

-=MagMan=- said,

Please tell me (and everyone else here) how you happen to know, factually, that Windows 8/RT are doing "really well" when

A) Microsoft has yet to release any OEM sales figures, and so far has only mentioned the 4 million "upgrades" sold
B) Ballmer has stated "modest" sales of Surface
C) Most reviews of the Surface are lack-luster at best
D) Most consumers I've seen looking at Win 8 / RT hardware are always asking the sales reps where the Win 7 gear is in stores

Microsoft has no control of OEMs running their business. They'll release sales figures on their own time.
Ballmer was also misquoted. Surface has sold out numerous times, despite these "reviews".
And, where is your source for the last bulletin?

-=MagMan=- said,

Please tell me (and everyone else here) how you happen to know, factually, that Windows 8/RT are doing "really well" when

A) Microsoft has yet to release any OEM sales figures, and so far has only mentioned the 4 million "upgrades" sold
B) Ballmer has stated "modest" sales of Surface
C) Most reviews of the Surface are lack-luster at best
D) Most consumers I've seen looking at Win 8 / RT hardware are always asking the sales reps where the Win 7 gear is in stores

Actually the comment by Ballmer about 'modest' wasn't in reference to the sales figures...it was misunderstood and a correction was already issued.

-=MagMan=- said,

Please tell me (and everyone else here) how you happen to know, factually, that Windows 8/RT are doing "really well" when

A) Microsoft has yet to release any OEM sales figures, and so far has only mentioned the 4 million "upgrades" sold
B) Ballmer has stated "modest" sales of Surface
C) Most reviews of the Surface are lack-luster at best
D) Most consumers I've seen looking at Win 8 / RT hardware are always asking the sales reps where the Win 7 gear is in stores

^This!

-=MagMan=- said,
Please tell me (and everyone else here) how you happen to know, factually, that Windows 8/RT are doing "really well" when

A) Microsoft has yet to release any OEM sales figures, and so far has only mentioned the 4 million "upgrades" sold
B) Ballmer has stated "modest" sales of Surface
C) Most reviews of the Surface are lack-luster at best
D) Most consumers I've seen looking at Win 8 / RT hardware are always asking the sales reps where the Win 7 gear is in stores

There is a reason why he said 'modest' because he knew what was possible/impossible but we had Steve Sinofsky hype the Surface so much that it would be impossible for any product to match the hype that was being put out. Steve Ballmer although excited on stage when off stage took very much a sober view on the matter where as Steve Sinofsky kept hyping the products beyond what was realistic. Sorry but the 'average' reviews received isn't because the product is bad per se but because the public was led to believe that the Surface was a 'massive game changer' when in reality it was a hybrid device to demonstrate that things can be different if enough imagination and creativity is used.

As for your 'most consumers' - who? most consumers wouldn't know the difference other than 'this is a new computer with something different'. People demanding Windows 7? what a load of crap - I hang around with people form all works of life, from high school drop outs to middle age couples, from teenagers to university students etc. and none of them are talking about 'wanting Windows 7'. The only question being asked is whether they can get Microsoft Office and can their old software run - that is it. How about stepping out beyond your own little confirmation bias echo chamber for a moment.

scaramonga said,
Had to happen really, I hope more heads roll for the mess that is Windows 8.

Sorry to hurt your feelings, but it's not a mess.

That's a shock. I actually checked it wasn't April 1 at first!
Potentially a sign of very bad news regarding Surface and / or Windows 8?

Second thought: Health problems?

That is unexpected and so soon after Windows 8 sends the message that something is wrong with WIndows 8. I like it and believe it is the right direction. But wow.
Of course no details.

Interesting. Unless he left for personal reasons there must be something going on behind the scenes at Microsoft.

Javik said,
Interesting. Unless he left for personal reasons there must be something going on behind the scenes at Microsoft.

From what I understand he was a difficult person to work with just like Forstall.

warwagon said,
There is hope for Windows 9 yet.

They'll fix the desktop usage issues long before Windows 9 with an interim W8 release. Presumably as soon as possible.

In truth, they needed to fix these issues before this holiday season, but better late than never I guess.

excalpius said,

They'll fix the desktop usage issues long before Windows 9 with an interim W8 release. Presumably as soon as possible.

In truth, they needed to fix these issues before this holiday season, but better late than never I guess.

Why do you keep trying to speak with authority in the comments on this article when you honestly don't know what is or is not coming?

warwagon said,
There is hope for Windows 9 yet.

It's playing out exactly as I predicted now that Window 8 is now released.
90% of businesses are going to skip the upgrade because it offers no new compelling features, and frankly, Metro kills productivity.
Many consumers will resist upgrading because it alters their beloved desktop experience.
OEMs will still sell Windows 7 machines (at least in their business lines).

Basically Windows Vista all over again folks. Until they fix the mess in Windows 9. Then the cycle starts all over again. Will MS ever learn?

warwagon said,
There is hope for Windows 9 yet.

I don't think so.
I think Microsoft will attempt to separate the UI of windows in tablets and desktops , both will run the same applications , and win rt will be gone. OR Microsoft will ditch the desktop completely and stick in a new version of metro UI (most probably)

Shane Nokes said,

Why do you keep trying to speak with authority in the comments on this article when you honestly don't know what is or is not coming?

Coz smart@sses gonna smart!

Shane Nokes said,

Why do you keep trying to speak with authority in the comments on this article when you honestly don't know what is or is not coming?

I would like to know whats coming.

I don't think we'll ever know for real why he's going. (Steve Sinofsky)
And as far for win8. it was a huge adjustment for me.
But once i got used to the shortcut keys, i have no big problems
and i'm a poweruser, (cisco) networking, programming...
if you don't like it, don't buy/use it

and having a multiguesture touchpad is a plus XD
left, right, top swipe, zoom, pinch... on a laptop

On a more serious note I have mixed feelings about this. I think he did a great job with Windows 7, but Windows 8 seemed like they were trying to do too much too quickly. I don't know if that falls on him or on those above him.

excalpius said,
It falls on him.

Not at all...see my above reply to another of your posts to see why commenting like this doesn't help you.

Interesting, Looks like things are not going so well for Surface and Windows 8. This makes sense when you look at the Surface Reviews wich overall are best described as lack lustre.

Actually awesome job on Windows 8 and Surface, cannot be better considering the big change and functionality of this thing.

Lets wait for 6 months, then come to any conclusion. All the negativity is coming from non-users, the product is ahead of its time and iOS and Android will have to follow the trend. No other tablet is a good tablet but also can do PC level activities in a nicer package.

derekaw said,
Interesting, Looks like things are not going so well for Surface and Windows 8. This makes sense when you look at the Surface Reviews wich overall are best described as lack lustre.

it is cloudy today in Seattle, must mean that WP8 is selling poorly.
it is Monday, must mean Win8 is selling poorly.
I saw some guy who uses Win8 on a the street, he did not seem happy nor sad, must mean Win8 is selling poorly.
I saw a silver car on the road, must mean Win8 and/or WP8 is selling poorly.
it is now night time, must mean WP8 is a total failure.

To you, anything and everything is an indication that Microsoft is a failure. Your hate is showing.

nohone said,

it is cloudy today in Seattle, must mean that WP8 is selling poorly.
it is Monday, must mean Win8 is selling poorly.
I saw some guy who uses Win8 on a the street, he did not seem happy nor sad, must mean Win8 is selling poorly.
I saw a silver car on the road, must mean Win8 and/or WP8 is selling poorly.
it is now night time, must mean WP8 is a total failure.

To you, anything and everything is an indication that Microsoft is a failure. Your hate is showing.

To borrow a page out of your style guide book for replies...

...

In the comments section of another post, the Microsoft fanboys were saying that the firing of Forstall after the release of iOS 6 was an indication that Apple is a failure. And now that a top executive at Microsoft is leaving shortly after the release of an OS update that he was in charge of is not a sign that Microsoft is failing?

blah blah blah for a few more paragraphs.

...


How did I do?

omgben said,

To borrow a page out of your style guide book for replies...

...

In the comments section of another post, the Microsoft fanboys were saying that the firing of Forstall after the release of iOS 6 was an indication that Apple is a failure. And now that a top executive at Microsoft is leaving shortly after the release of an OS update that he was in charge of is not a sign that Microsoft is failing?

blah blah blah for a few more paragraphs.

...


How did I do?

8/10 on the iToot scale.

Try harder next time and you'll get to 10/10, the zealot level accomplishment.

omgben said,

To borrow a page out of your style guide book for replies...

...

In the comments section of another post, the Microsoft fanboys were saying that the firing of Forstall after the release of iOS 6 was an indication that Apple is a failure. And now that a top executive at Microsoft is leaving shortly after the release of an OS update that he was in charge of is not a sign that Microsoft is failing?

blah blah blah for a few more paragraphs.

...


How did I do?

my comment was directed to derekaw, who on the very day that WP8 was released, called it a failure because, among other reasons, it was priced lower at Wal-Mart than other places. He said I must be selling poorly to have a reduced price, if it were priced that before it went on sale, how could it be selling poorly? He has been trying to find any reason to declare WP8 and Win8 a failure, including here, where Sinofsky leaving must mean that Win8 is selling poorly.

You are missing the point. MS creates the Surface not to gain the market share on that product. They just want to set the bar for other OEMs to follow. So far, it is working well.

derekaw said,
Interesting, Looks like things are not going so well for Surface and Windows 8. This makes sense when you look at the Surface Reviews wich overall are best described as lack lustre.

omgben said,
In the comments section of another post, the Microsoft fanboys were saying that the firing of Forstall after the release of iOS 6 was an indication that Apple is a failure. And now that a top executive at Microsoft is leaving shortly after the release of an OS update that he was in charge of is not a sign that Microsoft is failing?

you got that wrong totally. Forstall was in charge of the Apple maps debacle and got the chop, Sinofsky was in charge of the Windows 8 debacle and got the chop.

Clear now?

soulxfer said,
Actually awesome job on Windows 8 and Surface, cannot be better considering the big change and functionality of this thing.

Lets wait for 6 months, then come to any conclusion. All the negativity is coming from non-users, the product is ahead of its time and iOS and Android will have to follow the trend. No other tablet is a good tablet but also can do PC level activities in a nicer package.

You say to wait for six months... but at the same time you are firing proclaims aabout everything..... I would agree and wait six months to see what happens.

Yorak said,
He probably got tired of all the death threats.

He'd probably get crushed under an avalanche of obsolete keyboards and mice thrown at him by raging nerds.

virtorio said,
That's only a good idea if there is someone worthwhile to replace him with.

An intern with less than 3 seconds of experience would be better than that raving lunatic Ballmer, there are plenty of candidates.

Glassed Silver said,
Wow... this is going to make for some exciting news in the coming weeks however you look at it.

GS:mac

Not really unless... "Microsoft brings the start menu back with an optional patch" or something

Luis Mazza said,

The damage is already done.

Good riddance!

And now that the W8 damage control has begun, I expect we will see Windows 8 fixed for desktop use by next summer if not sooner.

excalpius said,

Good riddance!

And now that the W8 damage control has begun, I expect we will see Windows 8 fixed for desktop use by next summer if not sooner.

Not going to happen. Julie Larson-Green who runs Windows Experience is the person being put in charge. She was a person who was a key driver behind decisions made for Office since Office XP. This includes having been the push behind the Ribbon UI, and the changes made to Windows in both Win7 and Win8.

So if you wanted to see damage control it would have been her heading out...not.

Making comments like this points out to others that you don't know much of what happens in companies or why decisions are made...probably not a smart thing to do if you want to be a trusted source of knowledge.

Shane Nokes said,

Not going to happen. Julie Larson-Green who runs Windows Experience is the person being put in charge. She was a person who was a key driver behind decisions made for Office since Office XP. This includes having been the push behind the Ribbon UI, and the changes made to Windows in both Win7 and Win8.

So if you wanted to see damage control it would have been her heading out...not.

Making comments like this points out to others that you don't know much of what happens in companies or why decisions are made...probably not a smart thing to do if you want to be a trusted source of knowledge.

How do you know if she likes or dislikes the lack of Win7 elements on Win8?
You seem to know as much as him, but we're at least being logical: lots of people are complaining, sales are not ao good and one big guy was fired. What else do you expect to support a damage control?

Luis Mazza said,

How do you know if she likes or dislikes the lack of Win7 elements on Win8?
You seem to know as much as him, but we're at least being logical: lots of people are complaining, sales are not ao good and one big guy was fired. What else do you expect to support a damage control?

Simple. I've chatted with Julie before, and was aware of what direction things were moving shortly after Vista was released. I was part of a very small group that was shown what direction things were moving (back in 2007) and we had input into several areas.

I know exactly what sort of things she works on. She was the person in charge of the Windows Experience for Windows 8, and this includes the UI and general design elements. This UI is what her team did.

This post is another example of someone not quite knowing how things work in a company like this.

Shane Nokes said,

Simple. I've chatted with Julie before, and was aware of what direction things were moving shortly after Vista was released. I was part of a very small group that was shown what direction things were moving (back in 2007) and we had input into several areas.

I know exactly what sort of things she works on. She was the person in charge of the Windows Experience for Windows 8, and this includes the UI and general design elements. This UI is what her team did.

This post is another example of someone not quite knowing how things work in a company like this.

You mean you chatted with her about 5 f**** years ago and you want me to believe you're the wise guy here because you know what a company that is quickly losing market share is planing for the next 5 f***** years?
Get a life.

Luis Mazza said,

You mean you chatted with her about 5 f**** years ago and you want me to believe you're the wise guy here because you know what a company that is quickly losing market share is planing for the next 5 f***** years?
Get a life.

But the point is, you are PWNED.

Luis Mazza said,

You mean you chatted with her about 5 f**** years ago and you want me to believe you're the wise guy here because you know what a company that is quickly losing market share is planing for the next 5 f***** years?
Get a life.

I spent the prior 5 years consulting with them as regards Windows, Office, Xbox, and MSN/Windows Live projects.

I spent the better part of the 5 years since then working directly on campus, mostly on projects under IEB (Interactive Entertainment Business, primarily focused on Microsoft Studios & Xbox for my time there), and CSS working on various improvements to the customer experience for support...for Xbox, Windows Phone, and Zune.

I have practical working knowledge of the company as of this year. I know just how things work, and know a lot of the players involved.

So yes...I know what I'm talking about...as for having a life? Have one...thank you...move on to your next insult.

Luis Mazza said,

You mean you chatted with her about 5 f**** years ago and you want me to believe you're the wise guy here because you know what a company that is quickly losing market share is planing for the next 5 f***** years?
Get a life.

Well, I can back up Shane Nokes' claim. I left Microsoft in late 2010, but Julie is the person responsible for many of the UI experience you see today. I am fairly certain Julie has the biggest input into bringing Metro interface to life on Windows 8.

I attended the first internal Windows 8 kick-off conference, and at the time, they already had a very decent idea as to how Windows 8 would turn out. The decision to roll out Windows 8 experience is very much a top-down management, all the way from top execs (like StevenSi + Julie..etc) to all various orgs under Windows.

Edited by ThunderRiver, Nov 13 2012, 4:02am :

ThunderRiver said,

Well, I can back up Shane Nokes' claim. I left Microsoft in late 2010, but Julie is the person responsible for many of the UI experience you see today. I am fairly certain Julie has the biggest input into bringing Metro interface to life on Windows 8.

I attended the first internal Windows 8 kick-off conference, and at the time, they already had a very decent idea as to how Windows 8 would turn out. The decision to roll out Windows 8 experience is very much a top-down management, all the way from top execs (like StevenSi + Julie..etc) to all various orgs under Windows.

Thank you for the backup there. A lot of people don't know how this stuff looks from the inside so they just sort of guess.

I wasn't at that kick-off conference, but a lot of the underpinnings of 8 were already a big focus even back in 2007. Sure 7 was the primary thing on their minds, but some planning for 8 was already well underway.

There's a lot of people who don't seem to realize that they've been moving this direction for the past 12 years. It has taken longer than planned in some cases, and some things have definitely changed...but a lot of the work happening now has been in the pipeline for a long time.

I just took a look at Mini-Microsoft blog http://minimsft.blogspot.com/2...osoft-without-sinofsky.html, and surprisingly, his argument actually makes perfect sense.

StevenSi needs to go away, and make his own destiny (just like Marissa Mayer). If he is to be a CEO of another company, he will be far more qualified to come back as CEO of Microsoft. It is very hard to kick Steve Ballmer aside, and for as long as Steve Ballmer is around, StevenSi will not likely get the CEO seat.

Shane Nokes said,

Not going to happen. Julie Larson-Green who runs Windows Experience is the person being put in charge

irrelevant

Sinofsky got up Ballmer's nose, and Windows 8 is on the nose. If Larsen-Green doesn't fix the 2 HUGE problems with Windows 8 (desktop default, and start button) she will be out the door too!

dvb2000 said,

irrelevant

Sinofsky got up Ballmer's nose, and Windows 8 is on the nose. If Larsen-Green doesn't fix the 2 HUGE problems with Windows 8 (desktop default, and start button) she will be out the door too!

No she won't. I said it before, and I'll say it again. The desktop portion of the OS is falling by the wayside. We're pushing towards devices and technology that just won't support it. Computing is moving forward.

WinRT is the way forward for Microsoft, and you'll be seeing more of it in Windows 9.

Dot Matrix said,

No she won't. I said it before, and I'll say it again. The desktop portion of the OS is falling by the wayside. We're pushing towards devices that just won't support it.

The desktop is going nowhere. What are you smoking?

dvb2000 said,

irrelevant

Sinofsky got up Ballmer's nose, and Windows 8 is on the nose. If Larsen-Green doesn't fix the 2 HUGE problems with Windows 8 (desktop default, and start button) she will be out the door too!

/Facepalm

You can ignore my point all you want. It doesn't change the facts...no matter how much you may wish.

Shane Nokes said,

Simple. I've chatted with Julie before, and was aware of what direction things were moving shortly after Vista was released. I was part of a very small group that was shown what direction things were moving (back in 2007) and we had input into several areas.

I know exactly what sort of things she works on. She was the person in charge of the Windows Experience for Windows 8, and this includes the UI and general design elements. This UI is what her team did.

This post is another example of someone not quite knowing how things work in a company like this.


And that group was called the Test Pilots lol.

Dot Matrix said,

No she won't. I said it before, and I'll say it again. The desktop portion of the OS is falling by the wayside. We're pushing towards devices and technology that just won't support it. Computing is moving forward.

WinRT is the way forward for Microsoft, and you'll be seeing more of it in Windows 9.


I wouldn't take it that far. Metro is for content consumption, whereas the desktop is for creation. There will always be a need for a desktop. Moving to a simplified only 2 apps up at a time scenario is not condusive to moving computing forward, it actually does the opposite. People are more productive when they can multitask, metro really hinders that. And no, app switching is not multitasking. Multiple items on your screen at once, in view, is. And by multiple i mean more than 2.

Chris123NT said,

And that group was called the Test Pilots lol.

I can't confirm or deny the 'Test Pilots'. I can say that I wasn't part of a group named that.

I did have input into a specific group, and was part of others as well.

You know a bit of my background Chris

dvb2000 said,

irrelevant

Sinofsky got up Ballmer's nose, and Windows 8 is on the nose. If Larsen-Green doesn't fix the 2 HUGE problems with Windows 8 (desktop default, and start button) she will be out the door too!

Exactly. I do not use Windows 8 for this reason, and won't until it is "fixed". Metro is just a GIMMICK. I have absolutely no intention to upgrade from Windows XP/7 and Office 2007 - they do all I want.

Shane Nokes said,

I know exactly what sort of things she works on. She was the person in charge of the Windows Experience for Windows 8, and this includes the UI and general design elements. This UI is what her team did.

She did a great job with Office 2007. I hope Microsoft take user feedback seriously for development of Windows 9.

68k said,

She did a great job with Office 2007. I hope Microsoft take user feedback seriously for development of Windows 9.

i also use win xp professional to do all my job... support many old programs... why win 7 have some issue to support old program like games and others...

Luis Mazza said,

Yes... By two microbes. That's what microbes do anyway.

ROFL. You just can't take it when you fail, can you? If they are microbes, then you're simply just nothing.

bviktor said,

ROFL. You just can't take it when you fail, can you? If they are microbes, then you're simply just nothing.

Sure. THIS IS ALL FULL OF WINNERS HERE.

ROFL.

Making millions, you know....

Welcome to the new Microsoft board of wise failed gossipers.

Lol

Edited by Luis Mazza, Nov 13 2012, 9:24am :

Luis Mazza said,

Sure. THIS IS ALL FULL OF WINNERS HERE.

ROFL.

Making millions, you know....

Welcome to the new Microsoft board of wise failed gossipers.

Lol

I failed so hard that I've consulted with Jim Allchin, Julie Larson-Green, Jon DeVaan.

I've worked on AAA titles at Microsoft Studios, and in various special projects for Xbox, Windows Phone, & Zune.

Does it make me better? No. Does it possibly mean I know what I'm talking about? Yes.

So please stop, it is needless embarrassment for yourself. I mean this in earnest, not in a facetious manner.

That's how hard I fail

Shane Nokes said,

I failed so hard that I've consulted with Jim Allchin, Julie Larson-Green, Jon DeVaan.

I've worked on AAA titles at Microsoft Studios, and in various special projects for Xbox, Windows Phone, & Zune.

Does it make me better? No. Does it possibly mean I know what I'm talking about? Yes.

So please stop, it is needless embarrassment for yourself. I mean this in earnest, not in a facetious manner.

That's how hard I fail


I wanna fail like you...

Shane Nokes said,

I failed so hard that I've consulted with Jim Allchin, Julie Larson-Green, Jon DeVaan.

I've worked on AAA titles at Microsoft Studios, and in various special projects for Xbox, Windows Phone, & Zune.

Does it make me better? No. Does it possibly mean I know what I'm talking about? Yes.

So please stop, it is needless embarrassment for yourself. I mean this in earnest, not in a facetious manner.

That's how hard I fail

I'm sorry, but all of your experience didn't and doesn't put you in management and strategy.

Dot Matrix said,
We're pushing towards devices and technology that just won't support it.

Compact start menu is perfect for desktop users who use mouse. Mouse is better than touch screen and it is not going away, because it requires much less calories to operate. People at Microsoft who are responsible for removing desktop as default UI, and start menu have no clue about importance of customer needs and should not work at important positions which affects millions. People who claim that Windows Mobile and Windows 8 must serve as replacement for desktop are living in denial. Just look at windows "metro" OS market share and it will be clear that its a complete fail. Many customers expressed their opinions about missing features long before release and Microsoft choose to ignore them. This is NOT how you do business in "demand & supply" economy.

EJocys said,

Compact start menu is perfect for desktop users who use mouse. Mouse is better than touch screen and it is not going away, because it requires much less calories to operate. People at Microsoft who are responsible for removing desktop as default UI, and start menu have no clue about importance of customer needs and should not work at important positions which affects millions. People who claim that Windows Mobile and Windows 8 must serve as replacement for desktop are living in denial. Just look at windows "metro" OS market share and it will be clear that its a complete fail. Many customers expressed their opinions about missing features long before release and Microsoft choose to ignore them. This is NOT how you do business in "demand & supply" economy.

Ever think that there is more to computing than the damn desktop? Do you really expect to keep using the decaying Win32 paradigm forever? If you expected to, you're playing in the wrong field.

excalpius said,

Good riddance!

And now that the W8 damage control has begun, I expect we will see Windows 8 fixed for desktop use by next summer if not sooner.

Ballmer said recently that start menu isn't coming back so i think it is unlikely.

Dot Matrix said,
Ever think that there is more to computing than the damn desktop?
Yes, I think that there is more to computing than the desktop. But I also live in Real world where majority of workstations are desktops. I also understand that keyboard and mouse are ergonomically superior (soft keys, less movements, positioning, etc.) to touch-screen. Small touch screen would never replace 20"+ monitor with mouse and keyboard. It means that desktops will stay and people who think that removing and restricting desktop features on OS is a good thing are living in the fantasy land.

Dot Matrix said,
Do you really expect to keep using the decaying Win32 paradigm forever?
Not sure what are you implying here. User Interface type have no restrictions on choice of the platform type. Desktop UI can perfectly run on Win16, Win32, Win64 and Win∞.

Luis Mazza said,

I'm sorry, but all of your experience didn't and doesn't put you in management and strategy.

Oh really? You have no idea of what I have or have not done, other than the very basic mentions of things. I don't go into heavy details of projects.

Due to the nature of the work I literally cannot go into specifics. Needless to say it's another case of you not being quite aware of how things work, but willing to try to save face again.

So again please stop...you're only making yourself look really bad.

Shane Nokes said,

Oh really? You have no idea of what I have or have not done, other than the very basic mentions of things. I don't go into heavy details of projects.

Due to the nature of the work I literally cannot go into specifics. Needless to say it's another case of you not being quite aware of how things work, but willing to try to save face again.

So again please stop...you're only making yourself look really bad.

I'm making myself look really pathetic, you mean... discussing with a poser that likes to play the mysterious type, with no real good arguments.
Maybe it is because of people like you that Microsoft is so self-centered and loosing market. Sony is doing the same. The brand... oh the brand. It slowly fades, not like the egos, though. Those last forever.

Good luck.

Luis Mazza said,

The damage is already done.

Hurry up Microsoft.

wow that comment provoked all that from the M$ fanboy defense patrol ?
Obviously i agree with you Luis

And the know it all's here proved nothing either with the "flippant ramblings"
its common knowledge that M$ works by management making any decision they want and then that trickles its way down through the dept's.
And whether they are cohesive or smart and productive as a whole is a side issue and an after thought. so some guy who had something to do with some thing at some point in time at M$ means squat lol

Every time someone says Windows 8 was a mistake these guys have a temper tantrum and cry all butt hurt like its some kind of personal attack.
Since we're all a minority we don't matter so don't worry about it
And since we're all misinformed and using it wrong don't worry about it etc etc..

Kinda funny how such a "small vocal minority" of trolls making crazy baseless claims about the wonderful and revolutionary futuristic operating system that is windows 8 can cause SO much anguish from the windows 8 cheerleaders lol

and no they will never fade.. they had the ego long ago, comes with the territory
reminds me of that super old commercial where there was a million people sitting in office cubicles all with their ears plugged babbling on ....

Luis Mazza said,

I'm making myself look really pathetic, you mean... discussing with a poser that likes to play the mysterious type, with no real good arguments.
Maybe it is because of people like you that Microsoft is so self-centered and loosing market. Sony is doing the same. The brand... oh the brand. It slowly fades, not like the egos, though. Those last forever.

Good luck.

You are way way off the mark. No one says that Shane or me had huge input into the outcome of Windows 8. We (at least I am) are merely telling you how much influence Julie Larson Green had into the Windows and Office UI experience. She climbed up that high in the chain for a reason.

Whether she can revert the changes, well, it is still up to her, but I wouldn't bet on her admitting any fault for reverting any changes.

As for fanboy defense, I have none, because 1) I left Microsoft, so I only tell you what I knew before I left 2) I use Mac 98% of the time, and yes I do run Windows 8 on the side, but I have no preference to support or bash against it. It is not a bad OS, but I don't have touch based hardware to enjoy the OS fully.

Finally, would I want Microsoft to succeed? Absolutely, I still have quite a bit of Microsoft shares, so of course, I want the stock price to go up. But that doesn't change the fact of how much influence Julie has on the company. Whether I agree or disagree with her decision is irrelevant. After all, I only have voting powers on electing the board of directors (BillG still gets my vote).

Luis Mazza said,

Yes... By two microbes. That's what microbes do anyway.

A man would take his loss and admit defeat, but then again ...

Borix said,

A man would take his loss and admit defeat, but then again ...

I'm sorry, what have I lost?
This website is clearly pro-anything-windows. The only thing I'm losing here is my time, but then again... what are these few minutes anyway?

Borix said,

A man would take his loss and admit defeat, but then again ...

Quote from another comment I made

"Neowin is full of screaming failed boys... There's so much BS everywhere, so many 'specialists' everywhere, that reason is fast becoming a shame.
Being reasonable is a shame around here these days."

Luis Mazza said,

Quote from another comment I made

"Neowin is full of screaming failed boys... There's so much BS everywhere, so many 'specialists' everywhere, that reason is fast becoming a shame.
Being reasonable is a shame around here these days."

But the point is, you are PWNED.