Nokia Lumia debut better than iPhone's launch

There's been a lot of talk about how the launch of the Windows Phone-based Lumia smartphones from Nokia have been a disappointment so far. That was until last week when the company said it sold four million Lumia devices.

Now a new study claims that the Lumia launch may not be as challenging as some might expect. In a press release from Strategy Analytics, the research firm states that the first three quarters of the Lumia smartphone launch have actually exceeded the shipment numbers of Apple's iPhone in its first three quarters.

The press release quotes Neil Shah, a senior analyst at Strategy Analytics, as saying that, according to their estimates, Nokia shipped 6.9 million Lumia devices for its first three quarters. He adds:

This compares with 3.7 million units of the rival Apple iPhone family in its first three quarters during 2007, and 1.3 million units for the Samsung Android family in its first three quarters during 2009. It is an encouraging start for Nokia and Microsoft.

While those numbers may indeed be true, we should also keep in mind that the smartphone market is a lot larger in 2012 compared to 2007, when Apple first launched the iPhone. The press release also points out that Apple will likely launch the next iPhone later this fall and adds, "Nokia will need to pull something impressive out of the bag for the next-generation Windows Phone 8 launch later this year to sustain its tentative early momentum."

Richard Kerris has already said that the company has some great products ahead this Fall and especially this Spring. While the smartphone market is competitive, Nokia has a shot at turning the ship around if it can get the right products out at the right time.

Source: Strategy Analytics press release

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This is clearly the most ludicrous comparison ever. I wonder how many units it sold compared to the N95, which was around at the same time as the original iPhone? Android in 2009 was, well totally crap, I could sell more sand to a Saudi than Samsung sold of the 1.x Android phones.

ok great but they need to start selling in numbers big enough to push marketshare towards the double digits. until that happens, the platform won't be accepted as a 3rd choice.

Ppl say MS are abandoning WP7 devices with WP8 its total BS. WP8 uses a completely new kernel, lets apps run in native code etc its so different its best to just start again with brand new hardware thatll run all the new features properly. The security part of the phone that is geared towards the corporate market needs a special chip that comes on the S4 SoC to use etc. Also there not cutting ppl out of the WP8 market so much as ppl can still code for WP7 then put in little extras for WP8 (like higher resolution textures when it detects a bigger display size) and itll run on WP8. Ppl will code for WP8 when they need those features only available in WP8.

You do realise apple transparently leaves older phones behind. Thats there only device so it makes it look like there still supporting older hardware but there not as with windows phones older iphones wont have the hardware to run new things they put into the operating system so its just disabled when it installs. If it performs better on older phones good, does apple really care if it does... no, cus they WANT you to buy the next device same as every other manufacturer out there. Also i think WP8 will put it ahead of apples iOS technically speaking. The only gimmick for the next iphone is cable free charging, it may be WOW OOOOO OMG if your travelling around the place youll prolly find youll still need a cable charger to charge it cus its easier than carrying around some stupid mat or a dock which needs be plugged in anyway then ya just sit it on top. Its BS tbh. you can get mats that do the same thing with just an addition to ya phone to make it work, that bin out for ages

essay over dont slam MS for making it CLEAR that it needs new hardware to run it, its a bold move which will pay off cus they wont need to change this now as its what WP7 SHOULD have bin but didnt have time as they needed something out in the market to gain traction for the brand

bbbb but... Windows Phone is doomed and performing horribly. *cries people that have some insane need to cheer a product to fail*

Easy development platform, Solid OS, Solid future...

There are also the other 'facts' of WP7 doing well for TMobile and doing well in non-USA countries.

It isn't a big 'share' of the market, but it isn't losing share or credibility, especially as the WM6.x devices are fully moved out of corporate operation that has hurt the 'generalized' numbers.

The WP7 marketshare is just a bit under the Mac market share compared to Windows, so if the WP7 numbers would have you call it a failure, then you must also deem Mac and OS X a failure as well.


Anyone that moves from the three platforms, or users coming from iOS or Android get why WP7 is doing well.

Just the fact that a WP7 users can go months without restarting the phone and never see an App or OS crash or have a feature fail is important to people.

When there is no terminology for a 'crash' on WP7 or initialization like (FC) that is known by all Android users, this is a good indication that it is doing at least one thing better than Android and iOS.

Do a simple search for iOS or Android crash - there are a lot of articles just comparing which OS and Apps crash the most and what is the usual cause of the crashes.

Do the same search for WP7, notice the only crash references are from developers working on an App, a specific bug in a test update, or hardware failure. There is not a constant and ongoing nightmarish conversation of random crashes or stability issues.

The interesting aspect is that by moving to NT in Windows Phone 8 it becomes even more stable, not only with the more robust managed application platform, but even DirectX and Native Apps get the advantage of NT's stability and additional technologies like PCA that can even correct code in realtime.


What kind of research and analytical company draws a conclusion from this data where there are so many confounding factors at play? Seems like they're grasping at straws to produce some sort of positive spin for Nokia.

Manish said,
What kind of research and analytical company draws a conclusion from this data where there are so many confounding factors at play? Seems like they're grasping at straws to produce some sort of positive spin for Nokia.

A company who owns Nokia stock lol

The problem I have with this article is that you are comparing a world wide launch on multiple carriers to a USA only launch on 1 carrier

Shikaka said,
The problem I have with this article is that you are comparing a world wide launch on multiple carriers to a USA only launch on 1 carrier

Ya, but the same argument was made when WP7 was topping the charts in France and various other countries around the world, as it wasn't the UK or the USA, it didn't matter then. Now it does?

Albert said,
reeeeeeheeheeally. that was me channeling jim carrey. yet in other neowin news. nokia only sold 300k+ unit in america.

http://www.neowin.net/news/nok...-sold-330k-phones-in-the-us

so which neowin news is talking through jim carrey's butt?

Both "could" be correct, remember there are other countries outside of the US of A where people can buy goods. I think you will find Europe is perhaps Nokia and WP7 largest market.

This article was DOA as far as I'm concerned... You want to make an apples to apples comparison, then compare the launch numbers of the Lumia 900 to that of the Samsung Galaxy S II and iPhone 4S, and you'll see the Lumia was totally eclipsed by both the others phones individually!

Whoever writes these articles just wants attention.

-=MagMan=- said,
This article was DOA as far as I'm concerned... You want to make an apples to apples comparison, then compare the launch numbers of the Lumia 900 to that of the Samsung Galaxy S II and iPhone 4S, and you'll see the Lumia was totally eclipsed by both the others phones individually!

Whoever writes these articles just wants attention.

Your comment is DOA. Do you even know what you're arguing?

First of all, the Galaxy S II and iPhone 4S are not debut devices for their respective brands. They are established brands. Comparing Lumia sales with the sales of these models is the very definition of making an apples to oranges comparison.

Second, when the first iPhone came out, it also didn't have to compete with monster sellers like the SGSII or the iPhone 4S. The market was wide open for Apple to take. The Lumia line does not have this luxury. That's what makes the 4 million sold despite the entrenched mindshare of Samsung Galaxy and Apple iPhone lines so impressive.

bj55555 said,

First of all, the Galaxy S II and iPhone 4S are not debut devices for their respective brands. They are established brands. Comparing Lumia sales with the sales of these models is the very definition of making an apples to oranges comparison.

Lumia's were not debut devices for their respective brands either (WP7) and Nokia is one of, if not the most, established mobile brand

Sonne said,

Lumia's were not debut devices for their respective brands either (WP7) and Nokia is one of, if not the most, established mobile brand

I'm talking about the line of phones as a brand. I doesn't matter how well established Nokia is. Some of their models sell poorly and some sell better. The Lumia line debuted only months ago.

Besides, Samsung and Apple were pretty damn well established as phone makers well before the SGS II and iPhone 4S came out.

The point is that SGS I and the iPhone 4 were both monster hits before the SGS II and iPhone 4S came out. The Lumia line is still on its first generation.

Edited by bj55555, Jul 23 2012, 4:13pm :

The market is so big right now and Nokia as alot of us have observed that it needs to assist Microsoft in the marketshare increase in the smartphone market, not only in the US but in the world. Microsoft shot every user in the foot with no WP8 upgrade. But its a war that will be long fought and won by the best product. We must wait and see.

The iPhone was always a consumer orientated phone, never a business orientated one likewise with android. WP8 will be orientated initially at the business market and that's where it will either take off or fall, with the tight integreation with Windows 8 it could be quite successful. With Nokia pushing the WP8 it could just as easily be the leading handset maker after a 5 year battle.

I may have read or understood the article incorrectly but, I thought the Lumia sold numbers were worldwide, whereas in 2007 when Apple launched the iPhone it was 1 carrier in the USA only. Add to that the fact that the iPhone's price was twice or more than twice the price of a Lumia. I understand that Nokia is looking for a silver lining here... but not sure this is it.

People tend to forget that when the iPhone was launched it was nothing more than a phone with a touchscreen. It wasn't even 'smart'--it had no Flash, Java or app support. All they had were HTML-based 'web apps'. Hell, it didn't have MMS or 3G to begin with.

Compared with its contemporaries at that time, such as the N95, the first iPhone was a joke in comparison. No wonder Nokia thought that this touchscreen thing would only be a passing fad, because I myself thought that the iPhone would've failed too.

I think it was only iOS 3 and after where the iPhone was starting to become a true smartphone.

The iPhone also only initially launched in one country, didn't have 3G capability, apps or an app store...

So I find myself asking what's the point of this comparison?

Garry said,
The iPhone also only initially launched in one country, didn't have 3G capability, apps or an app store...

So I find myself asking what's the point of this comparison?

ya comparing the launches is apple's and oranges

at the rate cell phone tech is going at, it's like comparing the launch of the original Mustang to a 350Z; two very different eras

I wonder how the owners will feel when they find out that moving to Windows Phone 8 will require them to purchase another device. I'd feel hard pressed to support such a manufacturer who sells a phone that is obsolete so quickly.

I know this isn't a new announcement of course, but it's going to surprise some owners who don't keep themselves in the tech loop.

There are tons of outdated Android phones that barely got any updates and yet they still sell well.

The general public really doesn't care about updates, they want a phone that does everything they need it to do now.

imachip said,
I wonder how the owners will feel when they find out that moving to Windows Phone 8 will require them to purchase another device. I'd feel hard pressed to support such a manufacturer who sells a phone that is obsolete so quickly.

I know this isn't a new announcement of course, but it's going to surprise some owners who don't keep themselves in the tech loop.

lol still grasping at something to hate about WP8? like Razordfold said, plenty of forgotten and outdated droid ware out there

Toysoldier said,

lol still grasping at something to hate about WP8? like Razordfold said, plenty of forgotten and outdated droid ware out there

I don't hate Windows 8 at all, this is a Lumia comment. I feel quite sorry that those who buy a phone today are left in the same situation as some Android phones, yes they get 7.8 but it's not giving them the Win 8 App Store. It shouldn't be treated as the norm.

This is because when the iPhone was first released it was not subsidised. No matter what contract you had to pay an extortionate amount for the phone upfront because of the apple tax. It was only when the iPhone 3g came out did the phone become cheaper and was the price subsidised by contracts.

On the other hand you can pick up a lumia 610 in the UK for free on like a 15 quid a month contract atm...

Tk1917 said,
On the other hand you can pick up a lumia 610 in the UK for free on like a 15 quid a month contract atm...

...therefore, Aliens.

thealexweb said,
What about the massive writedowns Nokia has had to do to phones its shipped but can't sell?

I haven't seen anywhere where they were having a hard time selling phones... They were backordered from what I saw and what was largely reported...

The Yugo sold more than the Model T on launch day...

At just the right angle I look bigger than John Holmes.

Lets see how many other interesting things we can say to get better press. skew much.

subcld said,
better than iphone and galaxy

LOL No, not even close feature wise
And lets not forget microsoft is abandoning the lumias with software upgrades

Beyond Godlike said,

LOL No, not even close feature wise
And lets not forget microsoft is abandoning the lumias with software upgrades


im talking about Strategy Analytics report
he compared Nokia lumia start with iphone and galaxy
John Callaham didn't mention that in neowin article for some reason

Beyond Godlike said,

And lets not forget microsoft is abandoning the lumias with software upgrades

no, they're not. if anything, they're abandoning wp7 devices with some feature upgrades, some of which require hardware upgrade anyway. we're yet to see the list of features from WP8 ported to 7.8, but one thing for sure - update to WP7 is coming.

x.iso said,

no, they're not. if anything, they're abandoning wp7 devices with some feature upgrades, some of which require hardware upgrade anyway. we're yet to see the list of features from WP8 ported to 7.8, but one thing for sure - update to WP7 is coming.

Agreed. And a complete moron can see from the lists that much of the new features and improvements in WP8 are hardware specific... How would they do that for existing devices? I see nothing wrong with phones not getting an update that wouldn't even take advantage of the hardware anyway... The WP7 devices will still be getting an update that adds software only features, and I think that's reasonable.

yeah but didn't the iPhone originally launch unsubsidized? at $500-$700 a unit. Compare that to $100, of course the iPhone didn't launch spectacularly.

petrolly said,
yeah but didn't the iPhone originally launch unsubsidized? at $500-$700 a unit. Compare that to $100, of course the iPhone didn't launch spectacularly.

Nokia came into the market almost as a nobody. Apple pretty much had sales before it even released. People knew it was coming and wanted it. The Lumia came in unknown, in a competitive landscape.

wixostrix said,

Nokia came into the market almost as a nobody. Apple pretty much had sales before it even released. People knew it was coming and wanted it. The Lumia came in unknown, in a competitive landscape.


I couldn't disagree more; it's the REVERSE of what you state: In the mobile phone space, Apple was literally a "nobody" having never sold a phone, while Nokia had been selling phones for nearly 20 years.

It's also important to note that after the not-so-great iPhone 1 launch, Apple reversed course soon after and launched with subsidized phones in the U.S., which greatly helped their volumes over time.

The market is a lot bigger now than it was when the iPhone lauched.

[edit] i should read the whole article before replying to it lol

Edited by LaP, Jul 22 2012, 11:44pm :

While those numbers may indeed be true, we should also keep in mind that the smartphone market is a lot larger in 2012 compared to 2007, when Apple first launched the iPhone. The playing field is much bigger as more and more devices hit the market.

So shouldn't that make it harder to sell Lumias?

When Apple released the iPhone, there really wasn't any competition. So they had the market to themselves. When Google released the first Android phone (which didn't sell all that well), there only was 1 phone on the market to compete with. When Microsoft / Nokia released WP / Lumia, there was 2 very well established mobile OSes and a massive amount of devices to compete against.

-Razorfold said,

So shouldn't that make it harder to sell Lumias?
When Apple released the iPhone, there really wasn't any competition. So they had the market to themselves.

Yeah i agree with you.

But at the same time a simple rule of three can't be applied here. It's a little more complicated than that.

It doesn't really matter if the iPhone and Android phones had good or bad launch. They are 1st and 2nd right now.

Nokia can't wait 3 years for their WP phones to get a significant market share. They got to make a dent now cause the market is moving fast and is extremely competitive (which was not the case 5 years ago). It would have probably been a good lauch 5 years ago. Now while not catastrophic it's nothing to write home about.

-Razorfold said,

When Apple released the iPhone, there really wasn't any competition. So they had the market to themselves.

Plenty of people had smartphones before the iPhone. They just all sucked compared to the iPhone, so that's why it seemed like it had, "no competition." Heck, (while I think he should've stated it less as if it was fact cuz it probably was just his opinion, but, hey, I guess that's business for ya,) Steve Jobs did say it was 5 years ahead of any phone on the market.

MASTER260 said,

Plenty of people had smartphones before the iPhone. They just all sucked compared to the iPhone, so that's why it seemed like it had, "no competition." Heck, (while I think he should've stated it less as if it was fact cuz it probably was just his opinion, but, hey, I guess that's business for ya,) Steve Jobs did say it was 5 years ahead of any phone on the market.

I totally agree...

MASTER260 said,

Plenty of people had smartphones before the iPhone. They just all sucked compared to the iPhone, so that's why it seemed like it had, "no competition." Heck, (while I think he should've stated it less as if it was fact cuz it probably was just his opinion, but, hey, I guess that's business for ya,) Steve Jobs did say it was 5 years ahead of any phone on the market.

But smartphones in general weren't geared toward consumers as they are now either. You have to take that into account. Apple has tremendous brand power so usually comparing sales is not contest. So with the competition the iPhone didn't initally have, the Lumia line has exceed the launch of the iPhones. That the fact. Does it really mean anything? Personally, I think not much. Lumia are sold in more channels than the iPhone was so that has to be taken into account.

With that being said, Nokia has still successfully put millions of devices in the market, and that is an worthy accomplishment. They're selling phones. People just can give them that?

Also, people don't keep the same phone forever.

Edited by wixostrix, Jul 23 2012, 1:15am :

-Razorfold said,

So shouldn't that make it harder to sell Lumias?

When Apple released the iPhone, there really wasn't any competition. So they had the market to themselves. When Google released the first Android phone (which didn't sell all that well), there only was 1 phone on the market to compete with. When Microsoft / Nokia released WP / Lumia, there was 2 very well established mobile OSes and a massive amount of devices to compete against.

I have to agree as well. I'm glad to see Nokia and Microsoft hitting good sales numbers. It's a great OS and the hardware looks great too. I can't wait to upgrade to a Lumia.