Surface Pro 3 specs and pricing spotted, completes the family portfolio

During the past couple of weeks, Neowin has been looking at the upcoming Surface mini press event with a bit of suspicion that the 'mini' portion of the event is a bit of smoke and mirrors to cover up the fact that the entire Surface family is about to undergo some change. To that degree, we uncovered the specs of the Surface mini and even that we were hearing that Intel would be playing a big part of the event as well.

While Microsoft had previously said that Surface Pro 3 reference that was spotted was 'accidently' posted up on a support page was a simple mistake, it looks like the Surface Pro 3 just got a lot more real as pricing and specs of the devices have been uncovered.

The folks over at WPcentral appear to have gotten their hands on the SKUs that will be announced Tuesday as the pricing information is now being pushed out to retail databases and here is what is known, or at least presumed to be, the Surface Pro 3 information.

For starters, there will be five, yes five, variations of the product that span the entire pricing range:

  • i3-4GB RAM-64GB - $799
  • i5-4GB RAM-128GB - $999
  • i5-8GB RAM-256GB - $1299
  • i7-8GB RAM-256GB - $1549
  • i7-8GB RAM-512GB - $1949

There will also be some new covers as well, but this is where the information is a bit more aloof as we already believe that the Surface mini will have its own variation for a cover too. Anyways, the new covers are expected to come in Cyan, Purple, Black and Red; the red cover could be limited to Microsoft retail outlets.

All of this information falls in scope of what we have been hearing for some time, that Microsoft wants to create an entire 'family' of Surface products that span a wide range of prices, as well as functionality. That 'family' functionality could be determined by its size, such as the rumored 12in variant of the Surface and the smaller 8in size too. When you bring the current 10in size into the picture, if all of the above holds true, then Microsoft would have Surface products at all of the popular tablet and mobile PC sizes. 

Microsoft's Surface mini press conference is scheduled for Tuesday (and we will be there) and based on all of the leaks, it is turning out to be a product packed event.

Source: WPcentral

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wow, the i7 models are sure going to command a price so better be all 13 inch or else...who'd pay that much of a small tablet...

Must be cool to own one of these Surface Pro now. Because today at a local Starbucks, I saw 3 Surfaces Pros, and 5 MacBook Pro.
Good to see the growing of popularity of Surface Pro.
Great Job Microsoft!!!

Yeah good luck selling that with that ridiculous price. After 6 months we will be seeing so many inventory clearance promotions in the guise of one day sale from MS and loss number buried deep somewhere in their financial statements.

To begin with MS really need to bring price of i3 below $500 and throw that keyboard included in that price.

For the love of humanity I sill can't figure out why they don't include the keyboard for the high price they charge for these things. Your looking at almost $1000 after taxes. Ludicrous!

Is the $1299 price for i5-8GB RAM-256GB real? I'd definitely consider buying it at that price.

BTW anyone test Linux on a Surface Pro? Not sarcasm; I really wanna know how well it runs.

So the stylus is in again? It wasn't long ago that people were being mocked and called luddites for wanting a stylus and told to join the 21st century, but now Microsoft brings it back so it's all awesome and cool. People are so fickle.

/always preferred a stylus myself

I purchased a 128gb Surface Pro 1 after the Surface 2's were out (in February) to replace my Surface RT so I could run Visual Studio, WoW, & Adobe CS2 Ext. It was only $599 which is cheap compared to anything else with those specs (Wacom screen, 10 finger multitouch a Intel i5, nice resolution screen Ext) That's one thing I think sets Microsoft apart from the rest is their high build quality, mice, keyboards even products like Zune (all of mine are still working great even my brown brick 30gb which has had more drops and falls than songs that it holds lol) the only exception to their quality would be the rev 1 Xbox360 which could have probably been tested in house more before releasing it so they would be the first next gen console (usage scenario's like placing it in a poorly ventilated area, pet dander build up on fans). Personally I believe Microsoft will be supporting all of the Surface line including the Surface RT far longer than any other Windows, Apple & Android/Chromebook OEM including the merge between Windows Phone & Windows RT.

Still useless unless in shops globally (i.e. UK) and competitively priced - this still feels like Zune all over again to me.

Am I the only person that really wanted a Atom based Surface? Price it just a little above the ARMs version but keep the rest of the specs about the same. I have a Surface RT and I really like it (got it at TechEd 2013 for $99) but the only thing I don't like about it is that its RT. Fix that on the Surface 2 and it would be almost perfect.

Agree with others who say that it's too expensive. I'll still probably get one, but there's a reason Macs are on average still in single digit market share globally (or low double digits, whatever), and that is simply, price.

but it's obvious they're not going for the volume game, they're playing for margins, like Apple does

They position it as a "reference model" and keep prices high so they wont upset their hardware partners like HP, Dell, Lenovo etc.

I don't think that above prices are true. An upgrade from the 256GB to a 512GB SSD would cost you $2 per GB. The end user price for SSD's right now is about $0.50 per GB. Even at $1 per GB it wouldn't be more than $250 for the larger storage version.

Gungel said,
I don't think that above prices are true. An upgrade from the 256GB to a 512GB SSD would cost you $2 per GB. The end user price for SSD's right now is about $0.50 per GB. Even at $1 per GB it wouldn't be more than $250 for the larger storage version.

mSata SSDs more than 2.5" SSDs

Gungel said,
I don't think that above prices are true. An upgrade from the 256GB to a 512GB SSD would cost you $2 per GB. The end user price for SSD's right now is about $0.50 per GB. Even at $1 per GB it wouldn't be more than $250 for the larger storage version.

Storage is the new selling point to make money on. Look at Apple charging $100 for an extra 16GB and people are willing to pay.

Yay an i7 model! Would love that but the price is steep. Want to see £ prices but have a feeling it is going to be a few hundred pounds more than a Macbook Air, maybe even the same price as a Macbook Pro retina which is a shame as no way can I justify a Surface Pro via a Macbook Pro retina.

Here's a thought experiment for everyone saying this is going to be a flop:

Forget everything you know or think you know about this device besides the specs, and price. Now slap Apple's logo on the back and call it an iPad Pro, now do you think it will sell? I'll answer that for you: "Yes, It would." Do you know why? Because Apple fans don't down talk every move Apple makes, in fact they praise even the smallest things they do.

With the level of toxicity towards Microsoft at the moment, they could make what is truly the best device, something we've all been asking for, at the right price, and it would still be a massive flop. This same thing happened with the original Zune. Now that I think of it the only reason why Xbox 360 managed to even make it in the console industry was because they had a far superior online system, so far superior that we were willing to pay monthly for it. Anyway the point I'm trying to make is that the Microsoft community has been slowly cannibalizing itself for the last 2 decades, and at the same time actively pushing people away to the rival platforms. You know that nagging person that we all have in our lives? that person that nothing you ever do is good enough? yeah that's you people, that's what you sound like to Microsoft right now.

The original zune failed because it was released too late, and only in a single market. The only place I saw one for sale was in the duty free shop at an airport. The price was rediculous, half the features wouldn't work because they were locked to the US only, etc.

They really need to hit a lower price point... I just don't see many people using this as their main machine, yet they're priced as such...

Mr. Dee said,
Too expensive, might as well buy a MacBook Air and load Windows 8.1 on it.

MB air has touch screen and Wacom pen?

clearly what you want is a MacBook air. For people that want a high ppi display and a pressure sensitive stylus would definitely buy this over the MacBook air.

I agree with everyone else saying the price is just too high. It is a tablet. I get the fact it is supposed to be a hybrid tablet - laptop, but for all practical purposes it is still a tablet. As such anything over $800 is pricing itself out of the extremely high end of other tablets, and honestly those are too expensive as well.

$799 for your entry model is just too damn much. It can have the best specs in the world. At that price point it does not matter. People will not consider it.

And this is why the Surface currently does and will continue to struggle. The price point.

DirtyLarry said,
I agree with everyone else saying the price is just too high. It is a tablet. I get the fact it is supposed to be a hybrid tablet - laptop, but for all practical purposes it is still a tablet. As such anything over $800 is pricing itself out of the extremely high end of other tablets, and honestly those are too expensive as well.

$799 for your entry model is just too damn much. It can have the best specs in the world. At that price point it does not matter. People will not consider it.

And this is why the Surface currently does and will continue to struggle. The price point.

cool, buy an Asus T100 instead then if you can't afford a Surface Pro

These are not casual tablets these are for professional use. I'd spend that extra 100$ to get the Pro over an iPad any day. For casual use Surface and Surface Mini would do just fine.

The price is too high.
Microsoft will be failed to sell a lot of Surface 3.
I will wait for Dell and Lenovo to release their new tablet with spec like surface 3, but cheaper at least 20-30%

Perfect timing for me, actually. I was just about to buy a Surface Pro 2 in a few weeks.

I am wondering about the docking station. If the SP3 is bigger, I am curious about what that means for the accessories like the docking station and the "blades" MS was talking up a while ago.

me too, actually bought SP2 last week, had a problem and then saw the news so got a refund instead of replacement. I have read that the docking station has sides that can be pulled out so maybe already accommodate the larger size? not sure about blades but haven't seen any for sale so is it that big of a deal?

polychromenz said,
me too, actually bought SP2 last week, had a problem and then saw the news so got a refund instead of replacement. I have read that the docking station has sides that can be pulled out so maybe already accommodate the larger size? not sure about blades but haven't seen any for sale so is it that big of a deal?

new Dock

i3-4GB RAM-64GB - $599
i5-4GB RAM-128GB - $699~799
i5-8GB RAM-256GB - $999
i7-8GB RAM-256GB - $1299
i7-8GB RAM-512GB - $1499

Would be perfect price point. Though highly unlikely. The price and bad battery life is what kills the deal on these tablets.

MaSx said,
i3-4GB RAM-64GB - $599
i5-4GB RAM-128GB - $699~799
i5-8GB RAM-256GB - $999
i7-8GB RAM-256GB - $1299
i7-8GB RAM-512GB - $1499

Would be perfect price point. Though highly unlikely. The price and bad battery life is what kills the deal on these tablets.

Get just over 8 hours out of my pro2. yes more would be good but its a full OS tablet that gets me through the work day at long last so no complaints here. Will be interesting to see how it fares though with those i7;s.

Osiris said,

Get just over 8 hours out of my pro2. yes more would be good but its a full OS tablet that gets me through the work day at long last so no complaints here. Will be interesting to see how it fares though with those i7;s.

I expect about the same if they have the same idle drawl. Any CPU tasks would take more power for the faster CPU, but also take less time to complete, so it may nearly balance out.

mrp04 said,
What's new? There are no new CPUs yet, odd that they're releasing a new model already.

new Intel Haswell chips came out 2-3 weeks ago

itpro69 said,

new Intel Haswell chips came out 2-3 weeks ago

They were just refreshes. 100MHz bumps at the same price. Same power usage and same everything else. Not worth a whole new Surface model. They've previously bumped up the Intel CPU in the Surface quietly, no reason the Haswell refresh alone would warranty a whole new Surface model. There has to be something else that's new. Haswell refresh CPU, different SSD, and different RAM configurations are all things you can change without changing any other part of the system.

mrp04 said,

They were just refreshes. 100MHz bumps at the same price. Same power usage and same everything else. Not worth a whole new Surface model. They've previously bumped up the Intel CPU in the Surface quietly, no reason the Haswell refresh alone would warranty a whole new Surface model. There has to be something else that's new. Haswell refresh CPU, different SSD, and different RAM configurations are all things you can change without changing any other part of the system.

The new thing will be the 12"model probably wont be called the Surface Pro 3 to avoid the direct comparison and confusion with SP2.

mrp04 said,

They were just refreshes. 100MHz bumps at the same price. Same power usage and same everything else. Not worth a whole new Surface model. They've previously bumped up the Intel CPU in the Surface quietly, no reason the Haswell refresh alone would warranty a whole new Surface model. There has to be something else that's new. Haswell refresh CPU, different SSD, and different RAM configurations are all things you can change without changing any other part of the system.

new screen, new accessories, new stylus, new kickstand

itpro69 said,

new screen, new accessories, new stylus, new kickstand

New accessories and stylus don't warrant a new model, they're external and would likely work on the old ones unless they totally move away from Wacom which would be a big mistake unless they have created a very good stylus.

A new screen and kickstand would be a new model, but why so soon after SP2? Why not wait until Broadwell CPUs are out and do it then? The screen isn't bad and they just improved the kickstand.

I'm not seeing any very meaningful thing they can improve over the SP2 right now. Oh well I hope I'm wrong and they surprise us with something really cool.

For those complaining about the price. These prices put the Surface in line with Apple's pricing. Any lower and you risk pricing out the OEMS, and if you ask me, the OEMs right now are far from premium quality. If you want the premium Microsoft experience, then thats the Surface. If you want something cheap, go with the OEMs

wv@gt said,
These prices put the Surface in line with Apple's pricing.
You hit the number one problem on the head. The Surface should not be in line with Apple's pricing.

JHBrown said,
You hit the number one problem on the head. The Surface should not be in line with Apple's pricing.

Exactly, apple charges a ridiculous amount for all of it's products and people will pay it. I'm yet to hear if MS has actually made profit on the surface line but it really wouldn't surprise me if they'd made a straight loss, they're copying apple's pricing and it doesn't work. £1000 for a MS device? LOL I THINK NOT.

LOL at that pricing! If I'm going to spend that much on a Windows 8 machine, there are better options. I guess they missed my memo that they need to price these things aggressively to get them in the hands of consumers. An i3 with 64GB for about 800-850 bucks? And they call Apple customers sheep for buying expensive products!

Very true, I just paid 850 for a new i5 11in Air.
Pro For Air,
128GB vs 64
Good keyboard you can use in your lap
i5 CPU
9-11hr battery

Pro for Surface
1080P
Touch screen
Tablet mode?

You are correct. Apples trackpads and keyboards are the best in the industry and that awesome battery life. However, I was talking strictly Windows machines. You can get a nice Windows 8 laptop for that ridiculous price.

JHBrown said,
You are correct. Apples trackpads and keyboards are the best in the industry and that awesome battery life. However, I was talking strictly Windows machines. You can get a nice Windows 8 laptop for that ridiculous price.

And if you want a laptop you should buy one.

if of course you want a tablet, added mobility, inking/Wacom then yes perhaps you should look at a surface pro product instead of a laptop.

JHBrown said,
You are correct. Apples trackpads and keyboards are the best in the industry and that awesome battery life. However, I was talking strictly Windows machines. You can get a nice Windows 8 laptop for that ridiculous price.

Laptops don't have the ability to work without their keyboard attached and don't have Wacom pen support. Those are THE selling points of the Surface. If you don't care for those then you really shouldn't be considering the Surface at all and should be comparing laptops since the money you're paying for more portability, flexibility, and Wacom digitizer can be instead spent on better CPU, GPU, RAM, SSD, etc.

JHBrown said,
You are correct. Apples trackpads and keyboards are the best in the industry and that awesome battery life. However, I was talking strictly Windows machines. You can get a nice Windows 8 laptop for that ridiculous price.

Track pads, yes. Keyboards, no.

benthebear said,

Track pads, yes. Keyboards, no.

Hey Ben, can you point me to a better laptop keyboard? I've actually been looking recently for a client. Of course keyboard feel is all personal, but I just can't find a solid Windows laptop with a better keyboard.

JHBrown said,
Hey Ben, can you point me to a better laptop keyboard? I've actually been looking recently for a client. Of course keyboard feel is all personal, but I just can't find a solid Windows laptop with a better keyboard.

With everyone going to chicklets, there is NO difference at all anymore. Just in how deep the keys are: IE type on a macbook pro then a 11in or 13in Air, they feel shallower.

are they killing the RT regular size in favor of surface mini as RT and Pro as regular size? are these pretty much the new surfaces surfacing this fall 2014?

While these news is exciting, I'd like to see a lineup like this:

Surface 3 - Tegra K1 - $399
Surface Pro 3 - Atom - $599
Surface Pro 3 - i3 - $799
Surface Pro 3 - i5 - $999
etc..

I don't think you will see anymore surfaces with the tegra chipset, I think ms is moving everything to snapdragon for smaller tablets, as they use that for the phones, and intel i(x) for the larger tablets.

itpro69 said,
HD4400/HD5000 not good enough?

Decent for general use but they'll still struggle to run any modern games at decent graphical levels or fps.

yowanvista said,

Decent for general use but they'll still struggle to run any modern games at decent graphical levels or fps.

I guess its a business/professional tablet, not a gaming machine

Enron said,
What kind of graphics do these guys have? GTX Titan?

Intel HD, its a thin portable tablet not a gaming workstation

virtorio said,
A device doesn't need to be fat, heavy or expensive to have a better graphics option than that.

No, but it does have to have a bigger battery than you can feasibly fit into a tablet.

They need to make ALL Surface machines (mini, RT, pro, whatever) come with a stylus, and ALL models should have a place to safely store/dock the stylus so it doesn't get lost. They should target these things as creative devices, note-taking devices, and differentiate them from all the other tablets and convertables out there.

pmbAustin said,
They need to make ALL Surface machines (mini, RT, pro, whatever) come with a stylus, and ALL models should have a place to safely store/dock the stylus so it doesn't get lost. They should target these things as creative devices, note-taking devices, and differentiate them from all the other tablets and convertables out there.

The inking is one of the great things about these devices, these devices aren't the domain of graphic artists alone.

The mini is rumoured to be built around inking so expect to see it front and centre. Which compared to most other tablets out there...especially the fruity variety...the great inking experience on windows combined with onenote is second to NONE.

The fact the pro also runs a full OS and is a tablet PC is also another point of differentiation from the competition.

Yeah, the only thing that will be missing inking/pen is the regular "Surface"... and that really needs to change. "Surface" needs to be synonymous with pen/inking. Consistency across the lineup.

pmbAustin said,
Yeah, the only thing that will be missing inking/pen is the regular "Surface"... and that really needs to change. "Surface" needs to be synonymous with pen/inking. Consistency across the lineup.

I agree I guess the issue with that is going to come down to cost. Adding Wacom seems to increase the cost a bit to a 10" device. Will be interesting to see the price that the mini comes in at.

If the latest Microsoft TV commercial is any indication, the Surface line is still designed for play and content consumption. Still missing is any indication that serious data entry is possible--the form factor dictates that shortcoming. Yes, the pricing is way too expensive for its utility.

TsarNikky said,
Yes, the pricing is way too expensive for its utility.

Dude, it's priced basically the same as the cheapest MacBook Air and gives you the same utility. It's fairly priced. Would I like it cheaper? Duh, but we can't say that's too expensive at $800.

Max Norris said,

I hear they make keyboards for the thing.

Those smart covers suck to type on, and not just for the surface, the iPad ones are horrible too. Unless you're hands are baby sized, they are just uncomfortable to type on. The soft touch ones, you might as well be typing on the screen...

shockz said,

Those smart covers suck to type on, and not just for the surface, the iPad ones are horrible too. Unless you're hands are baby sized, they are just uncomfortable to type on. The soft touch ones, you might as well be typing on the screen...

No, real keyboards. If you want to do real data entry, then just plug in a real desktop keyboard.

Simple.

Xabier Granja said,

Dude, it's priced basically the same as the cheapest MacBook Air and gives you the same utility. It's fairly priced. Would I like it cheaper? Duh, but we can't say that's too expensive at $800.


This is the funniest type of comment I keep reading on surface article, it's a new kinda of microsoft zealot. Apple isn't cheap, it never has been, and there's always been a 'moron tax' on anything you buy from apple, e.g. 32GB of RAM is £800 or something preposterous.
There's a brilliant video that someone posted the other day of steve ballmer laughing/mocking apple for the iphone 'who would buy that! FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS!? We have smart devices for NINETY NINE DOLLARS'... Funny how MS has dole a role reversal and became apple.
The surface might be great, but there is no way on earth you can say it is good value for money - it really isn't, it's being priced as if it was a mac. Apple gets away with it, MS doesn't.

TsarNikky said,
If the latest Microsoft TV commercial is any indication, the Surface line is still designed for play and content consumption. Still missing is any indication that serious data entry is possible--the form factor dictates that shortcoming. Yes, the pricing is way too expensive for its utility.

Good news then, because the Surface features USB ports! Attach the peripherals you want, and carry on! Windows 8.1 features a wide range of productivity apps, not to mention Metro Office is coming. So your argument couldn't be any more invalid.

n_K said,
This is the funniest type of comment I keep reading on surface article, it's a new kinda of microsoft zealot.

My friend, I never said the Surface is good value for the money. What I said was that it's fairly priced considering it's squarely aimed at the MacBook line and so prices more or less match: in this sense it is competitive for the premium market, but that doesn't mean it's good value; nothing premium ever is.

If I was such a zealot I wouldn't be %90 decided that I'm buying an Acer Switch 10 for %380 instead of on of these new Surfaces. It'd be great to get one of them but at those prices I find better value in a more plasticky Acer.

In today's market, I think there's 2 choices: buy a premium computer that'll last you 5 years or buy the value offerings and upgrade every year/2years. I've had 6 value pcs in the past 6 years:

2008 - Dell Inspiron 1420
2009 - HP Pavillion DM3Z
2010 - Acer Aspire One
2011 - Apple MacBook
2012 - Asus Vivotab RT
2013 - Surface RT
2014 - maybe an Acer Switch 10?

Edited by Xabier Granja, May 18 2014, 4:29pm :

'2011 - Apple MacBook'
Sorry, you said value? And it stopped working a year later or what?
Computers will last as long as you treat them right. I've got old PCs from the mid-90s and laptops too, all still work fine because I've maintained them, paying more for the same spec machine by a different brand doesn't mean it's going to outlive the cheaper item. There's £500 gold HDMI cables, I'd happily put money on them not outlasting a £5 cable.

Hmm, I'm very curious about this announcement - I wonder if it's the same size as the SP2. I just got my SP2 in December, and I can't believe it's about to be "old" in less than five months. If it's replacing the SP2, than the SP2 wins the shortest lifespan award, not to mention it's going to upset some SP2 owners...

never buy any other tech ever again, there is always something new just around the corner. Your SP2 just doesn't stop working when a new model comes out

itpro69 said,
never buy any other tech ever again, there is always something new just around the corner. Your SP2 just doesn't stop working when a new model comes out
You're not understanding me here - I'm all for new technology/future progress. If a SP3 does get announced on Tuesday, my SP2 will become the shortest lifespan for a new product I have ever owned...That is all, not saying my SP2 will stop working or anything like that. Looks like the Surface Pro series has <1 year life cycle (taking release of SP1 and SP2)

itpro69 said,
Your SP2 just doesn't stop working when a new model comes out

THANK YOU! Someone said it. I hear people complaining so much about their products getting "old". In this day and age you should expect a newer generation of what you have within months.

Why does it matter? I still have a launch day Surface Pro 1 and I don't lament the fact that the platform was updated a few months later.

These things are running Windows, not iOS. They're removing ancient parts of the OS to speed it up, not adding things to slow it down like some other devices do between generations.

Vonauda said,
Why does it matter? I still have a launch day Surface Pro 1 and I don't lament the fact that the platform was updated a few months later.

These things are running Windows, not iOS. They're removing ancient parts of the OS to speed it up, not adding things to slow it down like some other devices do between generations.

How is that the same thing? You had a year before your tech expectedly became obsolete. The poster is commenting on the shorter release cycle being unexpected.

I agree though that in this day and age you should almost anticipate a new version every six months.

Personally id be more bummed out if I purchased a surface pro last week or this week. At the very least even if you didn't want a 12" version and even if theres not a revision to the SP2 (or a similar 10"SP3), chances are there will be temporary discounts or sales on the SP2. Although you could easily argue that's the cost of not keeping up witht he news, much like peeps who buy new iphones and ipads when a launch event is clearly around the corner.

Osiris said,

How is that the same thing? You had a year before your tech expectedly became obsolete. The poster is commenting on the shorter release cycle being unexpected.

I agree though that in this day and age you should almost anticipate a new version every six months.

Personally id be more bummed out if I purchased a surface pro last week or this week. At the very least even if you didn't want a 12" version and even if theres not a revision to the SP2 (or a similar 10"SP3), chances are there will be temporary discounts or sales on the SP2. Although you could easily argue that's the cost of not keeping up witht he news, much like peeps who buy new iphones and ipads when a launch event is clearly around the corner.

I picked up my SP! in Feb 2013; the SP2 was release in October. He picked his up in December for a product that's coming out in June probably. That is about an 8 month cycle for all of the releases except the RT which was pushed out with Windows 8.

tsupersonic said,
Hmm, I'm very curious about this announcement - I wonder if it's the same size as the SP2. I just got my SP2 in December, and I can't believe it's about to be "old" in less than five months. If it's replacing the SP2, than the SP2 wins the shortest lifespan award, not to mention it's going to upset some SP2 owners...

Isn't this the trend for everything now? apple and samsung are notorious in this arena. every 6-12 months a new iPhone. for last 3 years alone 4 ipads announced. Galaxy S5 got announced less than a year after S4. Note 4 is coming where note 3 is not yet available in some markets.

trojan_market said,

Isn't this the trend for everything now? apple and samsung are notorious in this arena. every 6-12 months a new iPhone. for last 3 years alone 4 ipads announced. Galaxy S5 got announced less than a year after S4. Note 4 is coming where note 3 is not yet available in some markets.
Actually, not really. All those devices are on a yearly release cycle (if not a year, roughly 11 months and change). The only exception being the iPad 4, which got released ~8 months after iPad 3. There aren't even any rumors of the Note 4! Also, the Note 3 is available in over 140 countries, according to wiki...

tsupersonic said,
Actually, not really. All those devices are on a yearly release cycle (if not a year, roughly 11 months and change). The only exception being the iPad 4, which got released ~8 months after iPad 3. There aren't even any rumors of the Note 4! Also, the Note 3 is available in over 140 countries, according to wiki...

oh yea? right now speaking it is just revealed S5 prime with new hardware (Technically new Phone) less than two months after original S5 announced. so? what is not true again ???

trojan_market said,

oh yea? right now speaking it is just revealed S5 prime with new hardware (Technically new Phone) less than two months after original S5 announced. so? what is not true again ???
Ha, the S5 Prime is NOT a successor to the S5 and it hasn't even been announced yet! All rumors point to the S5 Prime being a true flagship in the lineup (metal body, 1440p display, etc. - but again these are rumors). Using your logic, it's like saying the S5 Mini (also unannounced) is the next S5, which they're not, because they're two different devices with different price points, but released after the S5.

"i3-4GB RAM-64GB - $799"

That is insane. Depending on where I look, I could buy a laptop and a larger SSD at a lower price.

Ian William said,
I could buy a laptop and a larger SSD at a lower price.

Obviously. Laptops in a tablet form factor are going to be more expensive, nothing new there.

Ian William said,
"i3-4GB RAM-64GB - $799"

That is insane. Depending on where I look, I could buy a laptop and a larger SSD at a lower price.

A touch screen 12" 4GB (presumably 1080p or higher) one?

Ian William said,
"i3-4GB RAM-64GB - $799"

That is insane. Depending on where I look, I could buy a laptop and a larger SSD at a lower price.

go buy one then

it won't be a high res touch screen with Wacom digitiser or the high end build quality of a Surface

Ian William said,
"i3-4GB RAM-64GB - $799" That is insane. Depending on where I look, I could buy a laptop and a larger SSD at a lower price.

If we're lucky, the type cover will be included...

Brandon Live said,

A touch screen 12" 4GB (presumably 1080p or higher) one?

Yep, it's called the Lenovo Yoga 2. With keyboard, same price, and better specs.

Astra.Xtreme said,

Yep, it's called the Lenovo Yoga 2. With keyboard, same price, and better specs.

Except that's not even close to true. That may be a fine device, but it's an 11 inch lower res screen, a crappy Celeron CPU, a slow non-SSD drive, worse battery life, in a substantially heavier and larger package.

Brandon Live said,

Except that's not even close to true. That may be a fine device, but it's an 11 inch lower res screen, a crappy Celeron CPU, a slow non-SSD drive, worse battery life, in a substantially heavier and larger package.

Wrong.... i5, 1080p, 500GB SSHD+16GB SSD, 8 hour battery life. It's 13", so slightly thicker, and 1 lb heavier (big deal). A 64GB Surface barely leaves any space for applications. Sure you can add an SD card, but then performance is absolute garbage. For $900 (with keyboard), an i3 64GB Surface is completely laughable.

Astra.Xtreme said,

Wrong.... i5, 1080p, 500GB SSHD+16GB SSD, 8 hour battery life. It's 13", so slightly thicker, and 1 lb heavier (big deal). A 64GB Surface barely leaves any space for applications. Sure you can add an SD card, but then performance is absolute garbage. For $900 (with keyboard), an i3 64GB Surface is completely laughable.

13" is a different class and the weight and size difference is *huge*. You have to compare to the equivalent model, which is the 11.6" Yoga 2. That's the one I described above. By the way, the *cheapest* Yoga 2 13" is $1000, or $899 on sale. Again, with only a 16GB SSD. That makes a big difference in price. And no, 64GB doesn't "barely leave space for applications." There are 16GB devices with plenty of space for most people.

No one is saying this totally hypothetical rumored device which we know little about is for everyone. But the *rumored* price is completely on par with competitive devices.

Brandon Live said,

13" is a different class and the weight and size difference is *huge*. You have to compare to the equivalent model, which is the 11.6" Yoga 2. That's the one I described above. By the way, the *cheapest* Yoga 2 13" is $1000, or $899 on sale. Again, with only a 16GB SSD. That makes a big difference in price. And no, 64GB doesn't "barely leave space for applications." There are 16GB devices with plenty of space for most people.

No one is saying this totally hypothetical rumored device which we know little about is for everyone. But the *rumored* price is completely on par with competitive devices.

Um no, the correct comparison is price and performance specs. The difference between 12" and 13" is small, so there's no reason to dismiss it based on that... And no, it doesn't just have a 16GB SSD. Re-read the specs. Or maybe you don't understand how that storage configuration works... Now let's talk free-space. A 64GB Surface will leave you around 30-35GB of freespace. That is not a lot... A few productivity suites will burn that up in an instant. Would anybody buy a laptop/ultrabook with 30GB of freespace? Hell no.

If these things are priced competitively, why aren't they selling well? And why is it that most people in these discussions complain about the price? It must mean we're all wrong, right? Meanwhile, sub-$500 tablets continue to explode sales numbers.

Astra.Xtreme said,

Um no, the correct comparison is price and performance specs.

That's absurd. You can buy way cheaper laptops than the Lenovo if you don't care about the form factor.

The difference between 12" and 13" is small, so there's no reason to dismiss it based on that...

Simply untrue. Otherwise Lenovo wouldn't sell both models.

And no, it doesn't just have a 16GB SSD. Re-read the specs. Or maybe you don't understand how that storage configuration works...

The SSD is only 16GB. That's way cheaper than a 64GB one. A 500GB HDD is practically free. It was significantly worse performance and noticeable battery impact. The main point, though, is the price difference.

Now let's talk free-space. A 64GB Surface will leave you around 30-35GB of freespace. That is not a lot... A few productivity suites will burn that up in an instant. Would anybody buy a laptop/ultrabook with 30GB of freespace? Hell no.

That is not an accurate number. Remember this is a new device. The space requirements for Windows have been greatly reduced this year (particularly with new devices including a recovery SD card instead of a full recovery partition).


If these things are priced competitively, why aren't they selling well? And why is it that most people in these discussions complain about the price? It must mean we're all wrong, right? Meanwhile, sub-$500 tablets continue to explode sales numbers.

How can a product which doesn't exist yet be expected to be selling well? You know little or nothing about this product's specifications or features, let alone how it will do in the market.

Silly argument.

Brandon Live said,

That's absurd. You can buy way cheaper laptops than the Lenovo if you don't care about the form factor.

Find one with similar specs then... i5, touchscreen, 1080 res, etc. I bet you won't...

Brandon Live said,

Simply untrue. Otherwise Lenovo wouldn't sell both models.

What are you talking about? Price is a pretty big reason...
Hold a 12" diagonal piece of paper next to a 13" one. The size isn't much different...

Brandon Live said,

The SSD is only 16GB. That's way cheaper than a 64GB one. A 500GB HDD is practically free. It was significantly worse performance and noticeable battery impact. The main point, though, is the price difference.

Again, re-read the specs. It has a 16GB SSD + 500GB SSHD in a storage array. Is it as fast as a normal SSD? No, but it's considerably faster than a normal HDD. Since you don't seem to understand how that tech works, research it...

Brandon Live said,

That is not an accurate number. Remember this is a new device. The space requirements for Windows have been greatly reduced this year (particularly with new devices including a recovery SD card instead of a full recovery partition).

That's the first I've heard of that, but hopefully it's true. Regardless, Office and other pre-installed apps are a big reason for that space to be consumed. It still doesn't take away from the fact that 64GB is a tiny amount of space to begin with on a PC OS.

Brandon Live said,

How can a product which doesn't exist yet be expected to be selling well? You know little or nothing about this product's specifications or features, let alone how it will do in the market.

Silly argument.

I was talking about the Surface in general... The biggest problem has always been the price and going by the "rumors", they aren't doing much to combat that. I figured I was pretty clear when I said that sub-$500 tablets continue to consume more market share.

Astra.Xtreme said,

Find one with similar specs then... i5, touchscreen, 1080 res, etc. I bet you won't...

What about this one?
http://www.microsoftstore.com/...otebook/productID.295782600

Or this one?
http://www.microsoftstore.com/...trabook/productID.295782200

There are many.


What are you talking about? Price is a pretty big reason...

Umm, that's what I said. That is, the difference between 11.6/12" and 13.3" matters.

Hold a 12" diagonal piece of paper next to a 13" one. The size isn't much different...

Ignoring the important aspect ratio difference...
Hold it up to an 11.6" piece of paper and you'll find it's even closer! Amazing!


Again, re-read the specs. It has a 16GB SSD + 500GB SSHD in a storage array. Is it as fast as a normal SSD? No, but it's considerably faster than a normal HDD. Since you don't seem to understand how that tech works, research it...

What the hell is an "SSHD"? No, it has a 16GB SSD and a 500GB regular old spinning HDD. There are different approaches for making use of these kind of hybrid drives. Some use the flash as a large cache. Others install the OS and built-in apps there.

But how it works isn't important here. The point is HOW MUCH IT COSTS. Which is less than a 64GB SSD.

That's the first I've heard of that, but hopefully it's true. Regardless, Office and other pre-installed apps are a big reason for that space to be consumed. It still doesn't take away from the fact that 64GB is a tiny amount of space to begin with on a PC OS.

It's small, it's not "tiny." And it's plenty for a lot of people, especially considering that it's expandable through the SD slot.

I was talking about the Surface in general... The biggest problem has always been the price and going by the "rumors", they aren't doing much to combat that. I figured I was pretty clear when I said that sub-$500 tablets continue to consume more market share.

No one has argued with you on that point. Clearly the goal of this device is not to make a dent in the sub-$500 low/no-margin market sector. Instead it's competitively priced versus its target: The MacBook Air (and thus other ultrabooks which compete with that as well).

elenarie said,
Waaaaaaaaaaaaay too expensive. I guess the SSD is bumping up the price a bit, however, it still is too much.

Which ones? The i3's are a little high, especially for not coming with a touch/type cover included - but how do you figure on the rest?

elenarie said,
Waaaaaaaaaaaaay too expensive. I guess the SSD is bumping up the price a bit, however, it still is too much.

Little early to say that. You don't know any of the other specs or design features.

Brandon Live said,

Little early to say that. You don't know any of the other specs or design features.

It really doesn't matter the power, specs design etc. Microsoft NEEDS to drop the price. The price should not just justify the cost of the device and add more (like apple does) and it really doesn't matter that it is priced comparable to close PCs. They have gotten too expensive. It needs to come in at 599 for the lowest up to maybe 1200.

elenarie said,
Waaaaaaaaaaaaay too expensive. I guess the SSD is bumping up the price a bit, however, it still is too much.

Surface 2s will drop in price once S3 comes out.

Tarrant64 said,

Which ones? The i3's are a little high, especially for not coming with a touch/type cover included - but how do you figure on the rest?

Every edition. It is expensive, man. I bought the cheapest edition of Surface 2 Pro for my girlfriend as a gift with a Type 2 keyboard. Do you know how much I spent? 1150 EUR! Yes, you read that right, 1150 EUR which is about 1550 USD.

The prices in Europe for pretty much every Surface device are disastrously more compared to those for the US market.

2,437.43 USD - This is how much it costs to buy the best edition of the Pro right now. And that's from Microsoft's own freaking online store.

_Alexander said,

Surface 2s will drop in price once S3 comes out.

Not really. The price difference in Europe between the two was about 50-100 EUR at most, back when I was buying the Pro 2.

Brandon Live said,

Little early to say that.

Just saying that I am in Europe pretty much makes everything else irrelevant.

Enjoying that crazy $1949 price? Good! Now how about you pay us $600 just because you're from Europe! Because screw you, WE US R MASTER RACE! :/

elenarie said,

Just saying that I am in Europe pretty much makes everything else irrelevant.

Enjoying that crazy $1949 price? Good! Now how about you pay us $600 just because you're from Europe! Because screw you, WE US R MASTER RACE! :/

OR the EU charges lots of tax?

And the U.S. prices shown do not include tax either.

elenarie said,

Every edition. It is expensive, man. I bought the cheapest edition of Surface 2 Pro for my girlfriend as a gift with a Type 2 keyboard. Do you know how much I spent? 1150 EUR! Yes, you read that right, 1150 EUR which is about 1550 USD.

The prices in Europe for pretty much every Surface device are disastrously more compared to those for the US market.

2,437.43 USD - This is how much it costs to buy the best edition of the Pro right now. And that's from Microsoft's own freaking online store.

Considering the lowest edition of the Surface Pro 2 doesn't actually cost $1550 you can blame your government for the price difference.

Tarrant64 said,
The i3's are a little high, especially for not coming with a touch/type cover included - but how do you figure on the rest?

Not sure about that. The i3 model seems directly positioned against a 11" MacBook Air: where the latter has a 768p screen + i5, the SP3 gives you 1080p + i3, so you win some you lose some... seems well balanced to me:

MacBook Air = 899.
Surface Pro 3 = 800 + 99 (assuming they'd lower the price on those grossly overpriced covers) = 899.

That could be a winning strategy if you ask me.

Xabier, yeah - maybe the i3's aren't so high then after all. Great point with the MacBook Air.

I guess what I'm hearing is that based off of 3 simple specs, processor, RAM, and SSD, price should be determined. Let's just forget about the slim and portable form factor, battery life capability, screen capability (wacom, 1080p), Windows OS, software, etc.

A BMW is expensive too you know, yet people will still buy it because it is in it's own right something entirely different than a Honda.

Just because someone cannot afford premium hardware, doesn't mean that it's priced too high. It just means you can't afford it.

Xabier Granja said,

Not sure about that. The i3 model seems directly positioned against a 11" MacBook Air: where the latter has a 768p screen + i5, the SP3 gives you 1080p + i3, so you win some you lose some... seems well balanced to me:

MacBook Air = 899.
Surface Pro 3 = 800 + 99 (assuming they'd lower the price on those grossly overpriced covers) = 899.

That could be a winning strategy if you ask me.

You can get the accessories for reasonable prices on eBay from the seller "manufacturer_certified" which seems to just be Microsoft dumping things as "refurbished" when most of the Surface things seem to be new with a refurbished label slapped on.

mrp04 said,

OR the EU charges lots of tax?

And the U.S. prices shown do not include tax either.

The $ is quite weak against the Euro; this contributes to prices difference.

Funny how everyone is liking OP's comment without even understanding the context.

@elenarie

Go blame the euro for it's high exchange rate and your governments for setting high import and sale taxes. Also, minimum wages in euro zone are quite higher than US.

Economics 101


OR the EU charges lots of tax?
And the U.S. prices shown do not include tax either.

American prices are dirt cheap, I would easily be able to lease a Tesla S as a student if we had your leasing prices, here in Sweden.

eddman said,
Funny how everyone is liking OP's comment without even understanding the context.

@elenarie

Go blame the euro for it's high exchange rate and your governments for setting high import and sale taxes. Also, minimum wages in euro zone are quite higher than US.

Economics 101

What about countries that do not have the EUR as their currency? What about countries that are not part of the EU?

EU != Europe

elenarie said,

What about countries that do not have the EUR as their currency? What about countries that are not part of the EU?

EU != Europe

Then expect far worse import and sale taxes.

I, myself, live in a non-euro country and surfaces are about 40-50% pricier than US, but I know better to realize that it's not MS' doing but the local governments punishing taxes.

eddman said,

Then expect far worse import and sale taxes.

I, myself, live in a non-euro country and surfaces are about 40-50% pricier than US, but I know better to realize that it's not MS' doing but the local governments punishing taxes.

5% taxes on sales of IT hardware and software does not equal 50% increase in price.

elenarie said,

5% taxes on sales of IT hardware and software does not equal 50% increase in price.

Import tax is 5% too?

Besides all these stuff, availability plays a role too. Less surfaces imported, meaning less devices in the market and hence high prices set by greedy sellers.

eddman said,

Import tax is 5% too?

Besides all these stuff, availability plays a role too. Less surfaces imported, meaning less devices in the market and hence high prices set by greedy sellers.

Or, drumroll, MS intentionally requires higher price. Absofreakinglutely everything that MS sells in Europe is much, much expensive. Just checked, directly from Microsoft, US 8.1 Pro is $199, for me it is $289.

Even if you add 5% import and 5% sale tax, doesn't add up to a 50% increase in price.

elenarie said,

Or, drumroll, MS intentionally requires higher price. Absofreakinglutely everything that MS sells in Europe is much, much expensive. Just checked, directly from Microsoft, US 8.1 Pro is $199, for me it is $289.

Even if you add 5% import and 5% sale tax, doesn't add up to a 50% increase in price.

For what country? I was under the impression it was normally 20%, plus additional transportation fees.

elenarie said,

Or, drumroll, MS intentionally requires higher price. Absofreakinglutely everything that MS sells in Europe is much, much expensive. Just checked, directly from Microsoft, US 8.1 Pro is $199, for me it is $289.

Even if you add 5% import and 5% sale tax, doesn't add up to a 50% increase in price.

You said the sale tax is 5%. How mush is the import tax?

Also, you said the best SP2 is 2,437$. Converted to euro it's 1778 euros. The 512Gb version in US is 1800$.
Are you in Europe? If yes, then that's how it is with pretty much anything with almost all companies. 1800$ = 1800 euros. That's how it's done, unfortunately.

Edited by eddman, May 18 2014, 8:33pm :

rfirth said,

For what country? I was under the impression it was normally 20%, plus additional transportation fees.

Macedonia and Sweden. Both sharing the same price, even though we know Swedes earn billion times more than Macedonians. Companies just give the non-EU countries the middle finger and treat them as EU countries. Same goes for Bulgaria which is an EU country yet not as rich as the Western European countries.

elenarie said,

Macedonia and Sweden. Both sharing the same price, even though we know Swedes earn billion times more than Macedonians. Companies just give the non-EU countries the middle finger and treat them as EU countries. Same goes for Bulgaria which is an EU country yet not as rich as the Western European countries.

VAT is 18% in Macedonia and 25% in Sweden. That's your problem.

I'm not even sure if that includes Import Duty... and certainly doesn't cover transportation costs and exchange rates.

rfirth said,

VAT is 18% in Macedonia

5% for IT stuff. Also, the US does not have any transportation costs, exchange rates, and whatever other crap is needed to bring over the products from Asia?

No need to play that card, since transportation costs are ridiculously low, say two Pro devices to get a container of devices here from China or wherever they are being manufactured. Two years ago we ordered about 15,000 EUR of one container of heavy furniture, it cost about 800 EUR to bring the whole container here in Macedonia (half the world!). Considering how small surface the Surfaces take :p it is a joke to even consider the transportation costs. Add to that Microsoft's strong transportation / retail / partnering channels, it is nothing.

Also, exchange rates, what exchange rates? I am not paying with EUR from a US-located company. Whenever you deal with MS here, you deal with their local representatives (for example, MS Sweden, and MS Macedonia, in the example that I mentioned). And you pay with SEK in Sweden, and with MKD in Macedonia. Thus no exchange rates apply.

Edited by elenarie, May 18 2014, 8:11pm :

elenarie said,

Macedonia and Sweden. Both sharing the same price, even though we know Swedes earn billion times more than Macedonians. Companies just give the non-EU countries the middle finger and treat them as EU countries. Same goes for Bulgaria which is an EU country yet not as rich as the Western European countries.

MS doesn't sell surfaces in Macedonia officially. They are imported by third-parties, hence the astronomical prices. Taxes must be high too.

As for Sweden, again, find out the import tax. Being a member of the European union, IINM, they follow a common set of rules for items imported form outside of EU.

All in all, electronic stuff are expensive in EU because of the numerous types of high taxes put in place by the European governments, because minimum wages are much higher compared to US.

I think they will make the reference designs and OEMs will make their own versions. One thing to note though is that there are only 3 large enterprise class OEMs (Lenovo, HP, and Dell) now and one of those is in deep trouble (HP). As The pool continues to shrink due to consumers choosing other platforms, Microsoft may have to take steps to continue the viability of their platform as the best solution for the Enterprise such as the acquisition of an OEM. Since there is virtually no chance MS will purchase Lenovo and HP is a mess, I suspect that after Dell goes through their streamlining process Microsoft will acquire their PC/Mobile devices division. Microsoft did after all give them 2 Billion dollars to assist in their going private. In that regard, the investment makes sense.

korupt_one said,
most oems do a very ###### job with devices, so why not.

hahaha - that was Microsoft's line when they decided to release the surface originally. Can't see that they have done any better than the OEM's, in fact they lost $1b on their first attempt.


korupt_one said,
most oems do a very ###### job with devices, so why not.

With the exception of Lenovo, most OEMS do a very #### job <--I agree

dvb2000 said,

hahaha - that was Microsoft's line when they decided to release the surface originally. Can't see that they have done any better than the OEM's, in fact they lost $1b on their first attempt.

Right...because sales is the ultimate factor in deciding how good a device is. Surface is miles ahead of most OEM products.

dvb2000 said,

hahaha - that was Microsoft's line when they decided to release the surface originally. Can't see that they have done any better than the OEM's, in fact they lost $1b on their first attempt.

That depends what you're measuring.

Financially, it was a bit of a flop, sure. But technologically, just the hardware itself and the design of the Surface, it was very very far from a flop.

Which was the point. Microsoft wanted a reference design that other OEM's could use to improve THEIR designs.

suprNOVA said,
Is Microsoft just gonna take out all OEMS and try to become Apple?

To be fair, it's the most logical next step for Microsoft. I'm loathed to quote that famous saying by Alan Kay - "People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware." - but given they can't depend on the vendors doing a good enough job on the hardware design, and if they really want to make their hardware and software perfectly compatible and fully optimised it's the most sensible thing to do.

Plus, if Surface get more and more successful for Microsoft, it can only mean greater revenue for them.. which, as a business, is sort of what they're all about :)

nickcruz said,
You must be speaking of another Lenovo.
Let's be honest. Lenovo is a cubic zirconia in the rough. Even their most recent ThinkPad 8 phoned it in on some aspects. From their thinkpad 8 line's spec sheet:

Preloaded Apps/Software:
•Lenovo Companion
•Lenovo Support
•Lenovo Tap to Display (QuickDisplay)
•Lenovo Tap to Share (QuickCast)
•AccuWeather
•Amazon Kindle
•Evernote
•Skitch Touch
•Norton Studio
•RaRA Streaming Music
•Skype
•Zinio
•Microsoft® Office (Trial only on Win8.1 Pro)
•Microsoft One Note
•Norton Internet Security 2014 with 30 days of virus protection (Ready to Install)
•Nitro Pro 8
•Lenovo Solution Center
•ThinkVantage System Update

dvb2000 said,

hahaha - that was Microsoft's line when they decided to release the surface originally. Can't see that they have done any better than the OEM's, in fact they lost $1b on their first attempt.

MS had a $900B *write down*, not a loss. I understand your confusion on that note as the vast many "journalist" did a poor job of reporting what that means. It means they predicted X amount of profit on their previous books but that did not materialize so they took a one time write down of those projected profits. They still lost money but its more in the arena of $300-400M. And the remaining G1 devices that they sell goes right to profit.

Microsoft didn't lose 1billion dollar. First of all the exact amount is 900 million dollars and it is a write down. It means their inventory was worth 900 million less than they initially calculated in their book keeping. Reason? They cut the prices of Surface.

if they make ###### products why are they the only oem that still makes a lot of money and are profitable from windows based systems.

korupt_one said,
if they make ###### products why are they the only oem that still makes a lot of money and are profitable from windows based systems.

I'll just quote myself from above:
Lenovo is a cubic zirconia in the rough.
I won't call their machines terrible. But as far as polish and minimal crapware they are far from a model citizen.