Editorial

The IDC report gone astray, is Microsoft really at fault?

The IDC has blamed Microsoft and the release of Windows 8 as the reason for the decline of the PC market in a report that stated sales of computers were down 13.9 percent in the year's first quarter. The report pointed to Microsoft as leading factor for the decline of the market but the report overlooks some obvious market trends that were the true reason for the market contraction.

First, let us take a look at Windows 8. While there are quite a few mixed emotions about the platform, one item we can highlight is that the platform is selling. According to Microsoft, as of January 8, the company had sold 60 million licenses for the platform.

Doing some simple math, we can extrapolate that to today; Microsoft has sold well over 100 million licenses (1:1 extrapolation puts it at 134 million, but we suspect there was a sales decline after the price drop expired and the holiday season) based on previous sales rates. Selling that many licenses would indicate that the platform is selling well but that consumers are putting the OS onto older hardware instead of purchasing new machines if you consider that the IDC is saying that new machines are not selling well.

Sales figures aside, there is a lot more to consider as to why the sales decline is not solely on the shoulders of Microsoft. The market for desktops is shrinking and it's being replaced by other devices such as tablets, which the IDC does not include in its figures for reporting.

Because the market is moving away from one platform and on to another, does not mean that it is the fault of Windows 8. If a product better fits a consumer need, then that product will grow in the market while the older style technology will fade.  It’s the same reason the covered wagon was removed from mass production, not because the wagon was bad, but because the crazy new horseless carriage was a better fit for the consumer.

Microsoft built a product that fits many needs with one OS, which can best be seen by its use with the Surface Pro. While it’s a bit unclear if the IDC includes these products in its figures, as it says it includes "portables" but not tablets, the market is moving away from its need to purchase a traditional PC for the home with the release of each new OS. Instead, they are moving to tablets that are full featured but take up less space and are usually at a competitive price points to laptops.

But, among everything else that can be said about Windows 8, there is one item the IDC is ignoring – Lenovo, in the U.S., did exceptionally well while all other vendors played it safe and missed the initial launch window.

Take a look at Lenovo’s many new machines, including the Yoga and Carbon, two high-quality products that consumers desired. They were not plastic pieces of junk that were simply rehashed old designs with slightly upgraded parts inside. Because of this, Lenovo was able to grow in the U.S. and prove that there is room for vendors to innovate and capitalize on the enhanced abilities of Windows 8.

Windows 8 forced OEMs to think outside the box for the first time in decades and caused many of them to stumble as they got lazy with their designs and features, wanting to milk the same products over and over again to increase profits. Because Lenovo took a risk, it saw the reward of going outside the traditional box and creating unique products that consumers desired.

At what point do we stop blaming Microsoft and start blaming the vendors who failed to capitalize on the true value of Windows 8? Microsoft does not make a laptop or a desktop, but only a tablet (which the IDC does not appear to count in its calculations), so for an item to sell, it requires a vendor to build desirable products using Microsoft’s software. If there are few desirable products on the market, then the market will contract, as consumers have no reason to spend their disposable income.

The IDC took a slanted view to the numbers it was seeing and tried to justify them by only looking at one side of the equation. The market is a complex arena of vendors of hardware and software and if one party comes up short, then the entire ecosystem will suffer. But to point the finger only at Microsoft when Lenovo bucked that trend seems a bit biased and reckless by the IDC.

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M-Tech D9FHD-E. NVIDIA Quadro K5000 with 4GB dedicated GDDR5 memory (like yours), i7 3960 processor (not mobile but desktop version - 3.3GHz 6 core 15MB L3), 2 512GB Crucial M4 SSDs, 1 1TB 5400rpm, bluray burner.

You can actually have up to 4 hard drives but you have to give up the bluray. The drives (3 or 4) can be any combination of SSD and HD, I just prefer the idea of the 2SSD using Raid 1 (full mirroring).

Though it only comes factory installed with MS software, there is the option of purchasing without OS.

And yes, I am old enough I not only remember Betamax, I owned 2 of them. I still have movies in Beta and BetaHD format. Far superior to VHS. I saw my first Betamax when I was in college (1973). It was in a console model with 25" television, radio (am/fm??), betamax, and I think (not sure) a turntable built in.

Thank you for the update on GUI.

Edited by NatalieEGH, Apr 26 2013, 2:58am :

M-Tech D9FHD-E. NVIDIA Quadro K5000 with 4GB dedicated GDDR5 memory (like yours), i7 3960 processor (not mobile but desktop version - 3.3GHz 6 core 15MB L3), 2 512GB Crucial M4 SSDs, 1 1TB 5400rpm, bluray burner.

You can actually have up to 4 hard drives but you have to give up the bluray. The drives (3 or 4) can be any combination of SSD and HD, I just prefer the idea of the 2SSD using Raid 1 (full mirroring).

Though it only comes factory installed with MS software, there is the option of purchasing without OS.

And yes, I am old enough I not only remember Betamax, I owned 2 of them. I still have movies in Beta and BetaHD format. Far superior to VHS. I saw my first Betamax when I was in college 1973. It was in a console model with 25" television, radio (am/fm??), and turntable.

Thank you for the update on GUI.

First, everyone here neglects to talk about the most powerful laptop in the world, HP's 8770w laptop. Specs include NVIDIA Quadro K5000M, with 4 GB dedicated GDDR5 video memory, 2TB storage at 7200rpm, 32GB RAM, and its CPU is a Intel® Core™ i7-3920XM (2.9 GHz, 8 MB cache, 4 cores). Now I dare anyone to beat that monster!

Secondly, Steam is now avail on Linux and purportedly more games will come to Linux thus hastening the demise of Windows or at least Windows 8 in its current form. Whilst I'm sure IDC didn't take into consideration fringe users like gamers, it does pile up against Windows and its creator MS thus validating what their report stated.

Finally the GUI wasn't invented by Xerox. It was a thesis by some graduate student at some university I can't recall which. I remember seeing the video back in college in a computer graphics course I was taking many years ago. It showed a prototype GUI now we would call that a POC (proof of concept). BTW, this was so long ago that when I mention video I'm not talking about youtube or flash. I"m talking Sony Betamax, remember those?

Oh and I am not a Microsoft fan. If it were not for games I dearly enjoy being written to use DirectX, I would not bother with Windows. I started working with computers in the days of Apple II, and Tandy Computers, back when you had to tell it to open a connection to your cassette tape drive to load your programs. I am used to having FULL control of my computers and writing files where I choose to write then and using the file naming I choose, including the file extension (I think now called type .mpg, .dll, ...). I do not like MS preventing me from writing files anywhere I want or having files/areas I am not allowed to look at. It is my computer. If I want to do something that will break it and require me to reload the OS then, at MOST I should get a message that says "IF YOU CONTINUE, IT IS ON YOUR HEAD AS YOU MAY DESTROY THIS SYSTEM. Do you want to continue?".

In fact I use VMWare and run Ubuntu Linux when not playing games, but I must say, MS is an extremely inexpensive OS with all the functions it provides. Look up the prices for FTP, Telnet, ... Prior to MS driving Netscape out of business (at that time people hailed MS as the hero, I was one of the few that did not), a browser had to be paid for. That little package called Windows provides several thousands of dollars worth of software and it usually all works together. You can cut and paste from one application to another and at least for MS applications it will automatically convert formats. That used to be impossible. It would still be impossible to cut a paste between two different vendors documents if not for Microsoft Windows.

No, I might not like MS because I know how to do things and do not want some person that is trying to make the OS idiot proof limiting me, but I have to respect the product. Microsoft made the OS so simple people that cannot even read or do basic arithmetic can use computers. Were it not for the Graphical User Interface (GUI) home computers would still be the domain of geeks and nerds because people would have to be using the command line inputs for everything still and no offense intended but most users never wanted to bother learning how to do things and memorizing all the commands. Yes, Macintosh had it first but Palo Alto Research Center had it 20 years before Apple and they gave it to anyone that wanted to use it. The Mac is a fine machine but the interfacing between applications done by MS is much better.

I used to buy/build a new computer every couple of years. I would go all the way to bleeding edge. This was done so my computer could last a while for my playing of games and using other software. A little over 3 years ago, I bought my ASUS G73SW laptop. I regularly go to Best Buy and compare my system with the systems currently being sold. My 3 year old (high but not near bleeding edge when I bought it) is still better than almost all the systems being sold. I will get specs, find out GPU and CPU and compare.

Why should I pay for a new computer when my computer is still near the top of the consumer heap if not the gamer heap?

If I were to buy today, I would go for something like a Falcon Northwest Mach 5 with Intel i7 3970 processor on ASUS Z79 motherboard with trip NVidia 6GB Titans or maybe M-tech if I were to get another laptop.

It is really disappointing that in 3 years only a handful of consumer versions. The top Dell Alienware Aurora only offers the 3960 (nothing to sneeze at) and a single NVidia 690 or dual 680s with a max of 4GB (Falcon total is 18GB with latest GPU). When Nelson Gonzalez and Alex Aguila were in charge Alienware was a name that made uses bow in respect, not anymore.

Now there are 4 sets of computers people have: the desktop, the laptop/notebook, the tablet, and the cellphone.

Cell phones are get powerful enough and the OS and software is maturing to the point that many traditional desktop uses are migrating there. Add cloud storage and many of the reasons people buy computers have just been eliminated. People have the calendar, phone, internet, and even television in a device that weights only an ounce or too. Speeds are fast enough to watch a movie in HD and if you have a bigger device display it there.

For those wishing a bigger display there is the tablet. It can hold hundreds of books, thousands on mpg files, and do all the cell phone can if attached wirelessly to the net or to a cell phone tower. You also have applications like word processors and spreadsheets.

For those wanting still larger there are the laptops with lots of local memory but features that basically have not changed in a while. 3D laptop displays and touch screens have been available for a couple of years, why are they not yet in consumer models. Why are broadband technologies like WiMax not yet standard features? Vendors have gotten lazy and are still offering the same features as 10 years ago, and yes I have a friend with a 10 year old laptop that has the same features as every laptop at BestBuy or sold by Dell except it is older versions so slower.

Then finally we have desktops. They should be the supercomputers of the microcomputer world. They should be screaming fast but no, most are being sold with i3 or i5 processors. Check BestBuy an i7 is not even kept in many, if not all, the stores (I checked 2 local stores and was informed they were an online order only and one of the stores was in an affluent suburb of St Louis).

Yes the hardware for consumer desktops and laptops has been upgraded a little but in relation to other devices that offer similar, if not better because of convenience, the devices have stood still. Why go out and buy something in today's economy that adds is better only by a few percent. If features are not added to desktops and laptops, I suspect within a few years the market will reduce to hard core gamers and to businesses, homes will be happy with their tablets and cell phones.

The IDC has blamed Microsoft and the release of Windows 8 as the reason for the

Is it absolutely impossible to conceive that persons may exist who are not in the know as to what is "IDC"? If so, of course they as outsiders must be incredibly stupid.

ok, which?

Industrial Development Corporation
Interactive Data Corporation
International Data Corporation
InterDigital Communications
Interdnestrcom
International Detention Coalition
International Development Collaborative
Invensys Development Centre
Israel Development Center

If you had bothered to read the report Win 8 wasn't listed as the sole cause of PC slump. It was listed as one aggravating factor of PC sales slump. Looking at MS's own numbers, Windows sales rose by 76% at Win 7's debut heck even Win Vista HAD BIGGER SALES NUMBERS GROWTH than does Win 8 (65% vs Win 8's paltry 24%). Doesn't bode well for Win 8 now does it? Fortunately for MS, not all of its jewels are in one box. It has the cash cow of MS Office products, Xbox and its biggest gamble - The Tablet. And if its gamble doesn't pay off big in a BIG way, then this miscalculated move will take everything with it. Open source and cloud computing will then be poised to eat MS Office sales alive and thus we will all witness the sinking of the once great ship the Titanic. Ooops I mean Microsoft.

This article is extremely naive and clearly is written by a MS "lover". It ignores the reality of the numbers. First, of course users are moving more toward tablets & smartphones. Apple itself in its computer sales has been hurt because of its iOS sales. I hope all will agree on this.

Moving on to point number 2, Windows 8 is now the new Windows Vista. Or I should say Vistaster! Trying to say that Win 8 had nothing to do with the decline is unbelievable. In Latin America we have a saying: It's like trying to cover the sun with your hand and saying "sun, what sun? I don't see any sun!" This is the same thing. People don't want Win 8. Too radical of a shift. Businesses certainly aren't going to retrain their entire EU base just to get used to a new OS. Win 7 and even Win XP serve them just fine thank you.

I recently got my daughter a new Lenovo laptop, came with Win 8. We both hated it. Hated Win 8 so much I decided to wipe it clean and install Ubuntu Linux on it. As a side note, that didn't work the UEFI and other technical issues prevented this. What did I do? TOOK THE WIN 8 laptop BACK TO THE STORE FOR A REFUND!

I can see why MS took this miscalculated route. It didn't want to miss on the mobile market. Its misstep is to try and bolt on a tablet/smartphone OS onto a traditional PC. WRONG! All of the techie websites, respected PC editors and even homeless people have said: BAD MOVE.

What MS should've done from the start is give users the option of swinging both ways. As of this writing, there are rumors MS may indeed give in to consumer pressure. For MS' sake and for us consumers I hope this turns out to be true.

Oh and for those of you who would drink the Win 8 kool-aid (Reg TM) with glee, need I remind you that to fully exploit Win 8s "features" you really need a touch screen? Well guess what baby cakes, touch screen PCs COST MORE. Yup, higher cost commodities in THIS ECONOMY. Just be rational for once. If you have Win 7 (or XP) PC are you going to swap it out or buy a new touch screen PC - which are pricey - JUST TO GET A NEW OS on it? well would you??

Finally those of you in the Windows world you criticize the MAC-philes as a cult. The cult of Apple (and you're right actually on this). But you folks are just as bad. Blaming IDC JUST BECUZ YOU DIDN'T LIKE THEM TELLING YOU THE TRUTH TO YOUR FACE!

I, and all those I can influence, have sworn off buying any new PC if it comes with Win 8. At least in its current form. If I do buy some new HW and it comes with Win 8 then immediately it'll get nuked and slapped with a fresh copy of FREE Linux.

To put my money where my mouth is, I just bought a new desktop. I had a choice; Win 7 or Win 8, same price. Guess which one I chose.

If MS were to whither and die I wouldn't shed a tear. All good things come to an end. And if a few billionaires and millionaires were created along the way, then it was a good party. Party's over.


What did I do? TOOK THE WIN 8 laptop BACK TO THE STORE FOR A REFUND!

Suppose it was unthinkable you might have checked first before buying a computer that you already knew had the dreaded Windows 8. Instead you bought it and then brag about returning it for a refund. Making the store eat it.

Of course I knew it had Win 8 on it. IT SAID SO RIGHT ON THE DISPLAY MODEL. In the spirit of fairness despite all the negative press I had heard I decided to give it a spin myself. Not just blindly listen to what all these Win 8 nay sayers had to say but try it out for myself. And I did. And I hated it.
Hated it.
Hated it.
And what was worse is that due to UEFI and other implementation specific issues, obliterating Win 8 and installing Linux instead was impossible. After lots of research, pain and suffering, I finally decided to return it. Had it been able to install Linux on it, we would've kept the HW at least. Shows you how much you're privy to my personal going ons.

As soon as tablets became popular (thanks to Apple's iPad), it was clear that the PC industry would decline a bit. People who think Windows 8 is responsible for the PC industry declining should do their research before making silly comments like that.

As a consumer of top-level market research, I have to say that I've seen an astonishing drop in the quality of IDC's products over the past year or two. For the past twenty odd years IDC has been one of the most reliable producers of independent market research. These days though, their reports give the impression that they don't fundamentally understand the markets they report on.

In my local IDC office there's been a major change in that time with many of the "old hands" packing it in and being replaced with younger analysts who just don't have the depth of understanding their predecessors had. Gartner's recent offering on the same subject is far more mature and draws substantially better conclusions.

I generally agree with the tone of this editorial. Perhaps it's IDC that has a major problem and not the PC industry or Microsoft.

Nope. The blame lays squarely on Microsofts shoulders. If they didn't serve up the worst operating system in their history (I'll throw it out there imo i'll take hardware incompatibility and general sluggishness over this tablet crap) and force it upon everyone without an alternative choice then they wouldn't be in this situation.

What choices do general consumers, desktop and laptop users alike, have as an alternative to Windows 8 ? ... pay more for apple ... get beyond confused with linux ? buy a tablet ? this is exactly why.

If Microsoft and that Sinofsky idiot (Why did he jump ship immediately afterwards huh ?) wasn't too pig headed and daft to listen to the feedback they were given immediately following developers preview that they need 2 versions with metro and tablet stuff away separate from desktop and laptop edition as an evolution of Windows 7 they would be fine... but no and now you reap what you sew Microsoft.

Digitalx said,
I'll throw it out there imo i'll take hardware incompatibility and general sluggishness over this tablet crap

This makes no sense whatsoever. I don't understand this kind of zealotry. Install one of the many 3rd party Start Menu solutions and you have Windows 7+. How is "hardware incompatibility and general sluggishness" better than that?

Digitalx said,
Nope. The blame lays squarely on Microsofts shoulders. If they didn't serve up the worst operating system in their history (I'll throw it out there imo i'll take hardware incompatibility and general sluggishness over this tablet crap) and force it upon everyone without an alternative choice then they wouldn't be in this situation. ...

You should install Windows Vista then if you think hardware incompatibility and general sluggishness is NOT as important or if NOT more important. In fact, don't even bother to install SP1 or SP2. I'll take Windows 8 over Vista any day.

Would you run Windows 7 if your graphics card driver can't use any of the new video hardware acceleration? Why don't you install Windows 7 and use the "Standard VGA driver" and see how well it'll perform. I mean, why use the GPU acceleration when your CPU can brute force it?

I most certainly would be glad to and prefer using that over windows 8 because at least you don't have an entirely useless half of an OS sitting there which is for most part unnecessary and PITA to use on a desktop and shouldn't even be there in the first place alongside all the other unnecessary junk like tablet/full screen applications, dual modes of applications and so on.

There's a reason android and iOS don't get adopted widely on PC's/macs/conventional computers. Microsoft need to pull their head out of where the sun doesn't shine and realise this.

Digitalx said,
I most certainly would be glad to and prefer using that over windows 8 because at least you don't have an entirely useless half of an OS sitting there which is for most part unnecessary and PITA to use on a desktop and shouldn't even be there in the first place alongside all the other unnecessary junk like tablet/full screen applications, dual modes of applications and so on.

There's a reason android and iOS don't get adopted widely on PC's/macs/conventional computers. Microsoft need to pull their head out of where the sun doesn't shine and realise this.

That makes about as much sense as if I were to say "I'm not using another version of Windows until they remove Paint. It's totally useless and unnecessary."

Yes, Microsoft is DEFINITELY at fault here! Customers HATE Windows 8 and they HATE "Metro" or "Modern UI" or whatever stupid name they call it these days! They refuse to listen to criticism and force it down our throats, like it or not! Well, I am not buying it, and moving on to Linux. I am also putting my Xbox in the garbage! See ya Microsoft, you finally outlived your usefulness to me!

No, that would be the economy, the death of Steve Jobs, and the iPad and Mac laptop (still VERY popular) sales cannibalizing Apple dollars (hence Apple's overall great sales figures).

But for Windows PCs the numbers are worse than Apple's and, despite this nonsense op-ed, that's because Windows 8 has just simply frightened away consumers and business users from purchasing.

Most have just decided to delay their next purchase since their old computer probably works just fine enough and they are not savvy enough to downgrade (and don't want to go through the trouble).

But they will NEED to buy in another year or two, so if Microsoft fails to fix the problems with Windows 8 by THIS summer, the entire PC industry will lose yet another holiday sales season and business upgrade cycle.

Microsoft does in fact need OEM's. Microsoft makes some hardware good, but its history of making hardware ain't that stellar.

At this point Microosft needs to get into the hardware market. Give us a Microsft Tablet, Laptop and Desktop and Phone and lets compete against the OEM's. Either they do a better job, or they go ot of business. Microosft doesn'tneed them to survice. Businesses would jump on that hardware in a heartbeat.

MS can no longer trust the OEM's to do the right thing.

I agree. The OEM's are doing a Vista again. They didn't like Vista nd they don't like Windows 8 and they show it by offering poor hardware support. I thought they learned there lesson when they lost so much money with Vista. WHich is why they jumped on Windows 7 to get back some of what they lost.

There is nothing wrong with Windows 8. It was yes like Vista a ratical change from the norm. All the OEM's had to do was ramp up production on touchscreens so the price goes down, that way laptops and desktops with Windows 8 could have remianed the same price. But no! They all had ot act like a bunch of spoiled losers. Since production of the screens wasnt very high and no one was ordering that many, there was no reasn to drop cost. A touchscreen pc cost $300 more than the same one without. Showing that an increase in production could have easily halved the cost or eliminated the cost.

TechieXP said,
I agree. The OEM's are doing a Vista again. They didn't like Vista nd they don't like Windows 8 and they show it by offering poor hardware support. I thought they learned there lesson when they lost so much money with Vista. WHich is why they jumped on Windows 7 to get back some of what they lost.

There is nothing wrong with Windows 8. It was yes like Vista a ratical change from the norm. All the OEM's had to do was ramp up production on touchscreens so the price goes down, that way laptops and desktops with Windows 8 could have remianed the same price. But no! They all had ot act like a bunch of spoiled losers. Since production of the screens wasnt very high and no one was ordering that many, there was no reasn to drop cost. A touchscreen pc cost $300 more than the same one without. Showing that an increase in production could have easily halved the cost or eliminated the cost.

You are really reaching my friend! Did you seriously say that manufacturers are purposely sabotaging Windows 8? This is by far the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Windows 8 is loved by Internet Windows supporters, hated by the general public, plain and simple. It is an ok OS but definitely not worthy of spending anything over $50 on.

JHBrown said,
You are really reaching my friend! Did you seriously say that manufacturers are purposely sabotaging Windows 8? This is by far the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Windows 8 is loved by Internet Windows supporters, hated by the general public, plain and simple. It is an ok OS but definitely not worthy of spending anything over $50 on.

I guarantee you that most of the "general public" hasn't even used Windows 8 yet so I'm not sure how they could possibly hate it.

Certainly I don't think that manufacturers are intentionally sabotaging Windows 8, they would have nothing to gain from this, but they certainly are using it as a convenient scapegoat for a stagnant marketplace full of stale and/or mediocre hardware.

It is the same thing that they do when you call tech support about a problem you're having, the first thing they do is blame Windows, then you have to prove that Windows isn't the problem before you get any real help. The end result is that end-users think Windows is buggy while the manufacturers come off smelling like roses.

The concept is the same, blame Windows for poor sales, everyone concludes Windows 8 is bad and not the hardware.

Do you really think they'd have better sales if they could sell the same hardware with OS X or Linux or Windows 7?

I still remember these same type of articles when they were claiming the Desktop PC was dead, due to laptops. That never turned out true either. I knew then they were wrong about that.

These "analysts" are most likely Apple fanboys. I'd be willing to bet on it.

The PC is not dieing, and never will die. Just because there are lower sales means absolutely nothing. PC users don't have to upgrade all the time like Apple fanboys do. Plus many PC users upgrade the parts, they don't run out and buy a whole new computer (again like Apple fanboys are forced to do).

No tablet will ever replace a desktop PC. The screen size on a tablet is just too small, and pinch to zoom does not compensate for that difference. I love my desktop and its 27" LED display. Tablets don't have the CPU power, or GPU power a desktop has.. and they never will. They also don't have the storage space a PC has, or a full size real keyboard that a PC or laptop has.

I'm so sick of the media just literally twisting the truth around into BS. It like what they do to everything anymore.

And where are all the articles on how Apple is dieing, or will be dead in a few years... you know, because their stock has literally tanked the past few months due to lower sales. I guess that means the tablet market is dieing also, if you go by their logic.

Yes, it is the whole point. The sales of new PC is decreasing but, those sales are cumulative. For example, it is not strange to find that some companies are still using xp machines.

There is more to meet the eye with the slump of windows sales than to blame windows 8. Even though I hate it like a passion, it is more to do with hardware offerings and enterprise which will not adapt the new OS do to software incompatibility which goes for any new OS. There is a small area where enterprise does not want to invest hours of training on Window 8 which there is a pull back in the market do to this, but still, you can pre order enterprise/business computers with Windows 7 pro. Back to the hardware issue, I find it appalling that OEM still release screens in this day of age with 1024x768 resolution. OEM's should be releasing products with no less than 1080p resolution. Give consumers a wider choice and provide more 1920x1200, 2560x1440, 2560x1600 solutions.

Just my 2 cents

I build my own... been doing that for quite awhile now. I've bought 2 PCs and built the rest (one was a custom job from Indelible Blue with OS/2 Warp pre-installed and the other an all-in-one PC from IBM or HP or someone that I ran FreeBSD on)...

Prepackaged PCs have just never been exciting to me. I even built a hackintosh... tho' I must admit the aesthetics of a real mac were better.

pretty much, it's a silly report, they could have just as easily said windows 8 sales are declined because of PC makers

A lot of computers are still running XP on old hardware. If these are taken out of support, we will see some Windows 8 / PC traction. It was bad strategy on part of Microsoft to have windows XP supported till 2014.

Another Apologist Neowin windows 8 article. Windows 8 is a crap OS and offer no significant improvement to windows 7 rather than bloatware metro crap. One of the question asked is why lenevo is doing well then the answer is because Leveno is selling windows 7 preinstalled on most of the computer and bundling windows 8 dvd in case. There has been article on neowin or some other news forum stating this fact. Business in UK are demanding windows 7 and Lenevo is catering those demands by providing what people need. Windows 8 is a huge flop and no matter how people spin off things but it will remain flop.

Auditor said,
Another Apologist Neowin windows 8 article. Windows 8 is a crap OS and offer no significant improvement to windows 7 rather than bloatware metro crap. One of the question asked is why lenevo is doing well then the answer is because Leveno is selling windows 7 preinstalled on most of the computer and bundling windows 8 dvd in case. There has been article on neowin or some other news forum stating this fact. Business in UK are demanding windows 7 and Lenevo is catering those demands by providing what people need. Windows 8 is a huge flop and no matter how people spin off things but it will remain flop.

Lenovo is only offering Windows 7 on BUSINESS PCs.

Auditor said,
Another Apologist Neowin windows 8 article. Windows 8 is a crap OS and offer no significant improvement to windows 7 rather than bloatware metro crap. One of the question asked is why lenevo is doing well then the answer is because Leveno is selling windows 7 preinstalled on most of the computer and bundling windows 8 dvd in case. There has been article on neowin or some other news forum stating this fact. Business in UK are demanding windows 7 and Lenevo is catering those demands by providing what people need. Windows 8 is a huge flop and no matter how people spin off things but it will remain flop.
My thoughts exactly!

Auditor said,
Another Apologist Neowin windows 8 article. Windows 8 is a crap OS and offer no significant improvement to windows 7 rather than bloatware metro crap. One of the question asked is why lenevo is doing well then the answer is because Leveno is selling windows 7 preinstalled on most of the computer and bundling windows 8 dvd in case. There has been article on neowin or some other news forum stating this fact. Business in UK are demanding windows 7 and Lenevo is catering those demands by providing what people need. Windows 8 is a huge flop and no matter how people spin off things but it will remain flop.

Not sure what logic you use to say "bloatware metro crap" when Windows 8 actually uses LESS memory even with the "bloatware metro crap". In fact, a metro app can suspends and restores itself automatically by Windows. And even more, you can uninstall any and all of the metro apps if you so desire. And what you have left is a giant start menu for your desktop apps. Or better yet, maybe pin all the frequently used ones to the taskbar - exactly like Windows 7. Or if you have high resolution monitor, then choose the double-height taskbar and you can easily fit 50 icons (like I do).

but we suspect there was a sales decline after the price drop expired and the holiday season) based on previous sales rates.

the neowin writer takes time to do a write up and people like vcfan call the data garbage. someones out trying to save MS face.. MS has screwed the pooch and everyone knows it. MS fans as well. they pounce like cats when their beloved MS is being spoken about.

ChrisJ1968 said,
but we suspect there was a sales decline after the price drop expired and the holiday season) based on previous sales rates.

the neowin writer takes time to do a write up and people like vcfan call the data garbage. someones out trying to save MS face.. MS has screwed the pooch and everyone knows it. MS fans as well. they pounce like cats when their beloved MS is being spoken about.

no one said the data is garbage. the data is legit,but they now exclude a certain category of PCs. Someone buys an ultrabook instead of a notebook, DOESNT COUNT according to IDC. Automatic decline right there.

IDC is soooo full of ****. They have a hidden agenda. Theres a different category called "Ultraportables" that includes ultrabooks and windows tablets. NOT COUNTED in these figures. The number is not even this close of a decline.

BTW netbooks inflate windows 7 numbers.Windows 8 doesn't have the luxury of having netbooks yet. Microsoft couldn't start letting OEMs put windows 8 on netbooks because that would completely void what windows 8 is about.And you know OEMs would have thrown windows 8 on cheap POS non touch netbooks just to get volume sales. Blue is supposed to add support for smaller touch screen tablets and devices. Theres a strategy here.

Edited by vcfan, Apr 11 2013, 4:40pm :

grab planet mercury and blame it for the earths orbit kind of issue.

MS blamed the OEM;s outright for lackluster sales. that in itself is the proof in the pudding as to how dismal win8 actually is... when companies go out to blame... it isn't for praise...

Companies like IDC or Gartner will write anything their client wants. And - surprise - they will also give 'awards' for whatever to whoever pays. Platnum sponsor at some Gartner conference? Prepare the PR because you're a WINNER!

Love the Windows 8 fans and their excuses to why Windows 8 has nothing to do with this travesty. Like it or not boys, Windows 8 is to blame along with manufacturers. Question, what kind of innovation is everyone looking for in a PC? That's the excuse I keep hearing. My computer that I built is freaking awesome. I don't get this lack of innovation excuse.

Apple's Mac OS/X based products are down near 8%. The IDC report doesn't take into account Windows 8 tablets or hybrids, which are a good portion of the Windows 8 and PC sales. Taking those into account, then something like Mac's OS/X product line drop (8%) is more in line with the dip.

Is that a good number? No. But the market is flooded with options now. And you have companies like Dell and HP in a bit of uncertainty...and that's not Windows 8's fault at all.

Tell me, why is Acer and ASUS doing well w/ Windows 8?

JHBrown said,
Love the Windows 8 fans and their excuses to why Windows 8 has nothing to do with this travesty. Like it or not boys, Windows 8 is to blame along with manufacturers. Question, what kind of innovation is everyone looking for in a PC? That's the excuse I keep hearing. My computer that I built is freaking awesome. I don't get this lack of innovation excuse.

If Windows 8 is the sole reason, then Windows 7 should be saving it, which isn't the case. Even Mac sales are down. Is that Windows 8's fault too?

Dot Matrix said,

If Windows 8 is the sole reason, then Windows 7 should be saving it, which isn't the case. Even Mac sales are down. Is that Windows 8's fault too?

Re-read my post. I did not say it was the sole reason. It however has something to with it. Can you answer my question though. What innovation is everyone looking for from manufacturers that is being thrown around by Windows 8 fans, as the reason for this decline?

JHBrown said,
Re-read my post. I did not say it was the sole reason. It however has something to with it. Can you answer my question though. What innovation is everyone looking for from manufacturers that is being thrown around by Windows 8 fans, as the reason for this decline?

Look at how innovative Surface is, and you'll get your answer. We should be seeing that kind of innovation on the desktop, but we're not.

LookitsPuck said,
Apple's Mac OS/X based products are down near 8%. The IDC report doesn't take into account Windows 8 tablets or hybrids, which are a good portion of the Windows 8 and PC sales. Taking those into account, then something like Mac's OS/X product line drop (8%) is more in line with the dip.

Is that a good number? No. But the market is flooded with options now. And you have companies like Dell and HP in a bit of uncertainty...and that's not Windows 8's fault at all.

Tell me, why is Acer and ASUS doing well w/ Windows 8?

I doubt Windows 8 tablets has anything to do with this. Last I checked, they weren't exactly selling like iPads and Android tablets.

techbeck, did you view (or even better, actually try) the last leak of what would become Windows 8 prior to the Developer Preview? The reaction (even here at Neowin) was pretty much "meh" - and it differed externally not a whit from Windows 7 - Start menu and all. It was, in fact, largely described as Windows 7 Service Pack 2. Rather embarrassing, that. While a lot of users may indeed be quite happy to remain in what is essentially a gilded cage, that is not true of ALL users - Windows 8's upgrade sales put a rather large hole in that theory. Further, not a single one of us that are actually RUNNING Windows 8 - even those running 8 on non-touch hardware - are attacking 7 or saying that 7 is a *bad* OS. Lastly, utterly discounting ModernUI - which 7 lacks - as a straight upgrade or crossgrade, 8 has better backward compatibility in terms of both applications and hardware with 7 than 7 did with Vista or XP, or even Vista did with XP. (Name a Microsoft OS since Windows for Workgroups with 8's degree of backward-compatibility with the last preceding OS, let alone the last two, from Microsoft. I can't - and that even throws the NT-based OSes into the mix - all of them.) ModernUI is very much a 1.0 effort from Microsoft - that's not disputed one inch. However, I can name another 1.0 effort (in fact, I can name two) that ALSO weren't received well initially at first, but are selling well today - Android and iOS. iOS didn't really gets its legs under it until the SECOND - not first - iPhone. Android didn't break out until Gingerbread; as good as Froyo was, it was far more touch-centric than even Google liked, and was a poor fit for tablets. It takes time for something new to get its legs under it, as even Google and Apple found out the hard way.

If the surface system is the best that MS can offer for Windows 8.. no wonder the windows 8 thing is a fiasco.. Microsoft needs to fire Ballmer since 2 OS'es have gotten less then favorable reception.. although this one makes vista look like a decent OS.

Well, what can I say? Microsoft needs to adapt to emerging markets, this time, is the touch-based one.

MS is trying to evolve all of its Windows platforms, so the company itself isn't absorbed by upcoming "threats" such as Android.

Windows 8, all that I see is an unfinished product, that will be shaping good on Windows 10, not on 9. Even though MS is starting to implement "fast release cycles", I don't think it'll be able to do great for Win 9. The changes are so radical, that for the first time ever, they couldn't even bring an icon redesign for a Windows release.

Let's wait and see, what comes up next.

Tbh, computers are nowadays quite performant. Also cheaper ones. Why on earth should i replace if its still good enough? Pc sales in saturated markets will decline because of that. Plus there are tons of other pieces of the puzzle to explain the numbers. Win8 is hardly a key element here. If it is, then blame the communication. Win8 as a product alone is good. Period.

If people don't like Windows 8, they ask the computer store guys to downgrade to Windows 7, just like what they did with Vista and downgraded to XP. In my area, if 10 people walk into computer stores, 7-8 of them ask for either Samsung Galaxy Tab or iPad. Truth is, tablets have come to the point where they can handle what the majority of what people do nowadays. Windows 8 was to inspire OEM's to make new convincing designs to grab the publics interests. but what do they do? Take last years Windows 7 Laptop, throw Windows 8 on it with pointless "Utilities". Even Apple's Mac line is seeing less sales, people are shifting and the OEM's dropped the ball. Microsoft shares some blame as well because of this stupid region launching policy. it hurt Zune and it is hindering Surface. Launch global and market like hell you will see the difference. Just as technology shiften from mainframes to microcomputers (today's desktops) so the form factor is changing again. Either OEM's adapt or they'll die.

The lack of a Start-menu is not really a big deal. The Start-screen can be avoided most times when learning how to use the OS efficiently. You can pin your programs to the taskbar or put shortcuts on the desktop. Just using the Start-screen when searching (Win-key and type) as in Windows 7. The fact that you see th Start-screen every time you login should not stop anyone either. If it does then its just silly.

If you want a Start-menu replacement really badly then go and download one free from the Internet or buy one from for example Stardock. You are not restricted to anything.

I do recognize that ordinary users are scared of Windows 8 but that is because Microsoft has done a bad job informing about using the desktop.

Complainers are always the loudest ones in the conversation when criticism is the topic.

recursive said,
Yep, was wondering how long it would be before an apologist would try and shift blame away from MSFT. Turns out not that long..

the whole freaking computer market is oversaturated, this was bound to happen, it's not just Windows based computers, even google is having a hard time selling chrome books, apple selling macs, etc,etc

Plus cellphones. People rather do most facebook, twitter through their phones.... Because it seems that that is the only thing people do apart from breathing, sleeping and eating.

Microsoft is at fault because it continues to charge too much for the OS, which is probably the most expensive single component on a PC BOM. People will only pay so much for a PC, so an OEM has only so much they can do and still end up with a device people will pay for.

pulibros said,
Microsoft is at fault because it continues to charge too much for the OS, which is probably the most expensive single component on a PC BOM. People will only pay so much for a PC, so an OEM has only so much they can do and still end up with a device people will pay for.

In theory Apple charges more for the OS when its bought with a Mac... but since people only see retail "upgrade" numbers, everyone seems to think its ultra cheap..... hint: it's not

Of course it's Microsoft's and Windows 8's fault..... explains why Apple computer sales are down almost 7% right?....

recursive said,
The iPad is selling. Is the surface, or other Windows 8 tabs selling the same quantities as the ipad?

uh the iPad isn't a "apple computer" by apples definition.... that would be their Mac line

neufuse said,

uh the iPad isn't a "apple computer" by apples definition.... that would be their Mac line


The iPad is cannibalizing sales of Mac as well as Tablet PC will do with desktops. When laptops were first introduced they were very expensive and did not match desktop boxes; when the gap narrowed they started eating sales of desktops.
My daughter replaced the desktop in her room with an iPad because it is, for her, more convenient. I do not believe that we are living in a "post PC era" but surely a Tablet or a laptop is nowadays more affordable and useful than a desktop.

ShareShiz said,
You still need a laptop or desktop to be able to use your tablet.

It depends by what you mean with "Tablet"; my Tablet PC replaced my laptop and I do not need a desktop to use it. Granted depending by what I want to do, my 23" monitors could be a better choice than my 10" Tablet screen.

A 'Tablet PC' is still a PC, a tablet is a tablet.

Replacing a PC with a tablet PC is like replacing a PC with a notebook. Replacing a PC with an actual Tablet (not a tablet PC) would effect this market shift

Correct me if im wrong but a PC is a PC, Notebook, Tablet/Slate PC? Tablet is anything ARM based (In marketing terms)

brent3000 said,
A 'Tablet PC' is still a PC, a tablet is a tablet.

Replacing a PC with a tablet PC is like replacing a PC with a notebook. Replacing a PC with an actual Tablet (not a tablet PC) would effect this market shift

Correct me if im wrong but a PC is a PC, Notebook, Tablet/Slate PC? Tablet is anything ARM based (In marketing terms)

more or less this is my idea as well. A Tablet PC is a PC, an iPad and similar devices are "Media tablets" and as such I do not consider them PCs.
Said that it seems that nowadays whoever you speak with has a different parameters to categorize them.

I would blame the manufacturers. Stop making "pretty" computers and start making something useful at a affordable price. We don't need more companies like Crapple so stop trying to be like them.

ShareShiz said,
I would blame the manufacturers. Stop making "pretty" computers and start making something useful at a affordable price. We don't need more companies like Crapple so stop trying to be like them.

People want pretty...they want high quality material. Its the cool factor and makes them look more important than others. I want function over anything else. I get tired of hearing the cheap plastic feel of some devices. Well, my cheap plastic feel device can withstand more punishment than yours so again, I prefer function over anything else. Pretty comes last in my book.

Love the Ed Bott Tweet in the pic.

To me, the failure is coming from OEMs who are unwilling to produce name brand hardware. It's the same story year after year. A new OS from Microsoft is greeted with mediocre hardware from the OEMs. Windows 8 is no different, hence why Microsoft made the Surface and took matters into their own hands. It pretty much caught the OEMs red handed, which is why ACER has choice words for them.

I am almost positive that if MS included the old start menu and gave users a choice, even for a short time, W8 sales would be much better. I installed a replacement start menu on a test system and makes Win8 much more usable and gives time to actually get used to the new interface and where everything is. Also, since Blue fixes a lot of things and appears makes it easier to find certain settings, the old Start menu would of helped a lot of people. Seems like Blue is fixing/addressing a bunch of issues that should of been in the initial release.

Also, its true people do not like change and forcing it on them in this manner is not a good thing. MS has also has a history of every other OS not being so good.

techbeck said,
I am almost positive that if MS included the old start menu and gave users a choice, even for a short time, W8 sales would be much better. .

You can still buy Windows 7.. so if windows 8 is so bad and this rumor is true, why isn't windows 7 saving the market?

What if the Surface and Surface pro are having a statistical change towards IDC metrics? What if PC's are just having a longer tail? What is Xbox and PS nextgen console sales are slowing down PC? what if the fact everyone already has 3-4 pcs lying around and they all perform well?

I'm almost positive that average Joe consumer has no idea what the difference is between Windows 7 and Windows 8 and the only place this is actually an issue is in the minds of tech bloggers and analysts.

IgorP said,
I'm almost positive that average Joe consumer has no idea what the difference is between Windows 7 and Windows 8 and the only place this is actually an issue is in the minds of tech bloggers and analysts.

If the average Joe ha never used a computer before, I would agree with you. But for those who are using Windows prior to 8, they will notice that the start menu is different/replaced.

spudtrooper said,

You can still buy Windows 7.. so if windows 8 is so bad and this rumor is true, why isn't windows 7 saving the market?

What if the Surface and Surface pro are having a statistical change towards IDC metrics? What if PC's are just having a longer tail? What is Xbox and PS nextgen console sales are slowing down PC? what if the fact everyone already has 3-4 pcs lying around and they all perform well?

Never said the rumor was true or false. Just my opinion on the subject. And yes, you can still buy Windows 7 but how many poeple are going to go out, and purchse/spend more money on a system they just bought?

Tablets from Apple/Android probably contribute to the PC sales dropping as well. And OEMs do not have faith in Windows 8 apparently since the lack of support and some of the comments they make. Then there are lots of companies/users still on Windows XP. I do agree that lots are keeping their PCs for longer than they used to as well. So this could be why Windows 7 is not helping...because people/companies aready have it. But who knows. I think blaming MS for it fully is wrong.

spudtrooper said,

what if the fact everyone already has 3-4 pcs lying around and they all perform well?

This.

Surely we've just reached a plateau where the software that most people use is fast enough on current hardware. People don't feel the need to upgrade laptops/desktops because email, web surfing, word processing, all the common things people do on their computers haven't seen an appreciable speed boost in years.

Tablets are worth upgrading when the new version comes out with a 2 or 3 fold increase in CPU speed because they still struggle to do the basic things.

techbeck said,

If the average Joe ha never used a computer before, I would agree with you. But for those who are using Windows prior to 8, they will notice that the start menu is different/replaced.

So you're suggesting that there are masses of people walking into stores, fiddling with display computers, noticing that there's no start button/menu and then walking out again in disgust?

My experience is that people who aren't tech savvy either buy what the salesperson suggests or they buy based on a recommendation form a tech savvy friend.

IgorP said,

So you're suggesting that there are masses of people walking into stores, fiddling with display computers, noticing that there's no start button/menu and then walking out again in disgust?

My experience is that people who aren't tech savvy either buy what the salesperson suggests or they buy based on a recommendation form a tech savvy friend.

No, not suggesting that at all. Just that if someone used Windows before, they will know that the start menu is different. The biggest complaint it seems is that the start menu is different. Why I voiced my opinion the way I did.

techbeck said,

No, not suggesting that at all. Just that if someone used Windows before, they will know that the start menu is different. The biggest complaint it seems is that the start menu is different. Why I voiced my opinion the way I did.

Sure, I wasn't suggesting that people wouldn't notice the start menu was gone after using Windows 8, but presumably this would happen either at the point of sale or after the purchase was already made.

You said in your original post that Windows 8 sales would have been better had Microsoft included the option to use the old start menu. I was just saying that I doubt this has any bearing on the majority of people's purchase decisions as most would not even know the start menu was gone before purchasing.

spudtrooper said,
You can still buy Windows 7.. so if windows 8 is so bad and this rumor is true, why isn't windows 7 saving the market?

They don't sell Windows 7 in retail stores, as far as I can tell. At least, not at ours. As soon as Windows 8 and Office 2013 came out, Windows 7 and Office 2010 were taken out. Regardless of how I feel about Windows 8, we do get many people looking for Windows 7 or Windows 7 PCs.

At that point, it becomes my job to sell them on Windows 8 simply because we don't provide the option of Windows 7 if they want it.

spudtrooper said,

You can still buy Windows 7.. so if windows 8 is so bad and this rumor is true, why isn't windows 7 saving the market?

What if the Surface and Surface pro are having a statistical change towards IDC metrics? What if PC's are just having a longer tail? What is Xbox and PS nextgen console sales are slowing down PC? what if the fact everyone already has 3-4 pcs lying around and they all perform well?


What if the world spun in the other direction? What if the moon had color? What if there is really life on another planet?

I just wnated to coninue where you left off. But to be serios, what if the OEM's ha supported Vista like they did Windows XP and 7? What if they supoort Windows 8 which they had 3 frikkin years to prepare for?

IgorP said,

Surely we've just reached a plateau where the software that most people use is fast enough on current hardware. People don't feel the need to upgrade laptops/desktops because email, web surfing, word processing, all the common things people do on their computers haven't seen an appreciable speed boost in years.

Tablets are worth upgrading when the new version comes out with a 2 or 3 fold increase in CPU speed because they still struggle to do the basic things.

I haven't upgraded to a new computer/laptop in about 8 years. I'm still rocking dual cores on all my machines. Sure my laptop fan sounds bad. But, I clean it out about once a month and it still goes strong.

However, after just 6 months I have to upgrade my tablet. Not only was it slow as hell, but the screen on it sucked and broke after just one drop with a cover.

tomcoleman said,
why dont M$ get the message the larger market share just dont like windows 8 - Bring back the start menu

If Windows 8 is killing the market (Which isn't the case), then why is Windows 7 not saving it (The Start Menu is dead Jim).

That's it! Imma gonna introduce and patent an operating system composed only of a start menu and become a zillionaire. So long, suckers!

tomcoleman said,
why dont M$ get the message the larger market share just dont like windows 8 - Bring back the start menu

The start screen has an amazing future. They just need more time, envision it correctly and righteously adapt it to all circumstances.

tomcoleman said,
why dont M$ get the message the larger market share just dont like windows 8 - Bring back the start menu

Firstly, you forgot the apostrophe in "don't" and the word you were actually looking for was "doesn't". Secondly, using a dollar sign to replace the S is incredibly immature. Thirdly, you asked a question yet didn't include a question mark.

As for bringing back the Start Menu, that's simply not a sensible solution. It was poorly suited to high-resolution displays due to the limited horizontal resolution and had numerous other limitations, like the truncating of folders and application names, the small size of the icons, the nested hierarchy, the lack of customisation and the inability to display dynamic information. The solution is to address the limitations of the Start Screen.

win7 is saving it to an extent, there was an article from a big it tech website saying that they are selling more win7 than win8 pc's and many win8 pc's have been replaced with win7 pcs on showroom floors as people said they wanted win7 instead.

theyarecomingforyou said,

Firstly, you forgot the apostrophe in "don't" and the word you were actually looking for was "doesn't". Secondly, using a dollar sign to replace the S is incredibly immature. Thirdly, you asked a question yet didn't include a question mark.

I <3 you

I hate reading all the broken English comments. I can't even reply to them. I just LOL.

ShareShiz said,

I <3 you

I hate reading all the broken English comments. I can't even reply to them. I just LOL.


but yet you did

francescob said,
That's it! Imma gonna introduce and patent an operating system composed only of a start menu and become a zillionaire. So long, suckers!
Shut up and take my money!

McKay said,
If Windows 8 is responsible for declining PC sales, why are Macs declining too?

It doesn't effect Apple, Apple knew years ago that the post-PC era was coming in fact they are who announced it. Desktop PC's are no longer Apple's bread and butter and haven't been for many years, they have other products to pick up the slack. Microsoft on the other hand scoffed at a post-PC era and are now paying the price for their ignorance and lack of vision...and there bread and butter IS desktop PC's

I agree. I run 2X23" monitors off my desktop and I'm thinking of adding a third. Screen real-estate = productivity. You can't run a business on an iPad.

theyarecomingforyou said,

Firstly, you forgot the apostrophe in "don't" and the word you were actually looking for was "doesn't". Secondly, using a dollar sign to replace the S is incredibly immature. Thirdly, you asked a question yet didn't include a question mark.

And you know what's funny? If he were using Windows 8, it would've corrected "dont" for him automatically

Oh yeah, +1 on the spelling lesson!

I just bought a new desktop last week. I had the choice: Win 7 or Win 8 - same price. I went Win 7. So much for all this talk about desktop PCs going away. Take that!

I completely agree.
I've been bashing OEMs in the last years about their lack of innovation and general laziness.

Things did not change with Windows 8 introduction. We get basically the same ****ty hardware they used to produce with one updated feature : the OS.

Few of them (the OEMs) actually tried to offer advancements but it was rather fueled by Apple pressure with the MacBook Air. Meanwhile, prices remain outside the consumer confort zone.

Nothing really changed. It is easy to understand why Microsoft was fed up and came out with its own hardware. Is there a Surface desktop looming ahead? One can hope. Unfortunately its price would be too high considering Microsoft is trying to replicate Apple's playbook and its associated inflated sticker prices.

TheCyberKnight said,
...

I contacted ASUS via their Facebook fan page to inquire if they had plans to release a powerful laptop (such as G55VW) with a touchscreen and updated features. Their answer was "I have not heard anything solid about plans to include a touchscreen on a model like the G55VW." Hopefully they will...

Exactly. A lot of what's being offered isn't worth buying (hardware wise). A lot of the PC hardware vendors aren't stepping up to the plate, IMO.

TheCyberKnight said,
I've been bashing OEMs in the last years about their lack of innovation and general laziness.

Why should they invest massive capital in producing high-end products only for them to run a dumbed down child-optimized phone/tablet interface that people clearly aren't drawn to?

That's not "lazy", thats understanding the market.

MVD said,

Why should they invest massive capital in producing high-end products only for them to run a dumbed down child-optimized phone/tablet interface that people clearly aren't drawn to?

That's not "lazy", thats understanding the market.

Don't waste your time... It's ASUS' and ACER's fault, not MS' at all. They have convinced themselves.