The iPhone 4G from Sprint, kind of

This isn’t any newly developed iPhone hardware, or even the latest model - expected sometime this summer - but an advertising campaign from Sprint, showing off their 4G speeds.  The commercial pokes fun at AT&T for their spotty, slow 3G speeds around the United States, while Sprint already has 4G coverage.

The Sprint Overdrive offers users a 3G/4G WiFi hotspot almost anywhere in the US, allowing for multiple devices to connect simultaneously, providing them with blazing fast download speeds.  If you missed Neowin’s hands-on review of the Overdrive, head on over and check it out.

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Why is Sprint 4G so slow compared to 3G+ (UMTS/HSPA+) offered by all the carriers in Canada? Here the 3G+ gives max 21.6 Mbps down / 5.76 Mbps up, and people with 4G devices on average get about half of those speeds, which is a LOT higher than the average speeds quoted in this commercial. Is the problem the network infrastructure in the US? Is it network congestion? Why are things so slow? We have been promised 100 Mbps speeds for the 4G LTE-Advanced network being set up by the Canadian carriers.

sabrex said,
Why is Sprint 4G so slow compared to 3G+ (UMTS/HSPA+) offered by all the carriers in Canada? Here the 3G+ gives max 21.6 Mbps down / 5.76 Mbps up, and people with 4G devices on average get about half of those speeds, which is a LOT higher than the average speeds quoted in this commercial. Is the problem the network infrastructure in the US? Is it network congestion? Why are things so slow? We have been promised 100 Mbps speeds for the 4G LTE-Advanced network being set up by the Canadian carriers.

Is nothing wrong. As I am explaining a few posts above WiMAX is not 4G. WiMAX is officially 3G technology. This Sprint/WiMAX/4G advertisementsis nothing more than a fiasco. As you correctly saying 3G/HSDPA can perform a lot faster in real life situation than WiMAX. Wait/stick with LTE if you want to have 4G.

sabrex said,
Why is Sprint 4G so slow compared to 3G+ (UMTS/HSPA+) offered by all the carriers in Canada? Here the 3G+ gives max 21.6 Mbps down / 5.76 Mbps up, and people with 4G devices on average get about half of those speeds, which is a LOT higher than the average speeds quoted in this commercial. Is the problem the network infrastructure in the US? Is it network congestion? Why are things so slow? We have been promised 100 Mbps speeds for the 4G LTE-Advanced network being set up by the Canadian carriers.

Don't listen to nMIK because he has no idea what he's saying.

Why does cell reception and speed suck in America, the answer is pretty simple.

One, America is huge and hence requires a lot of cell phones towers. Now because there are so many towers, cell phone companies are reluctant to fully upgrade them everytime a new technology comes out. So what they do is just leave the old tower there and add components to it to support 3g or w/e.

Two, 3g has a few bands ranging from 850-2100. The lowest band offers the greatest coverage, but at the cost of speed. The highest band offers the best speed at the cost of coverage. American companies generally use the 850/1700 bands, other countries generally want to use the 2100 one.

Three, instead of building more towers they like to shove as many people as they can onto one. Now combine that with a old tower thats partially upgraded it's just going to get congested and lead to lower speeds and dropped calls.

Oh and I forgot to mention, America doesn't support HSPA+ fully yet. Hell we don't even have full coverage of HSDPA either.

AT&T and T-Mobile are rolling it out over certain locations in the coming weeks.

Hence our current network can only support 14Mbps in peak conditions.

Edited by -Razorfold, Mar 22 2010, 5:03pm :

nMIK-3 said,

Is nothing wrong. As I am explaining a few posts above WiMAX is not 4G. WiMAX is officially 3G technology. This Sprint/WiMAX/4G advertisementsis nothing more than a fiasco. As you correctly saying 3G/HSDPA can perform a lot faster in real life situation than WiMAX. Wait/stick with LTE if you want to have 4G.

BTW, even if some of what you were saying was accurate (so far, none of it has been even close), Sprint's WiMax network is easily upgradeable to LTE if that's the direction the rest of the industry goes. The difference is, Sprint is 2+ years ahead of the other carriers for rolling out 4G, so they have more time to adjust for network loads and iron out any possible issues as they gather new customers.

Please shutup and stop trolling now, 3 pages worth of your blabbing is just flat annoying.

vaximily said,

BTW, even if some of what you were saying was accurate (so far, none of it has been even close), Sprint's WiMax network is easily upgradeable to LTE if that's the direction the rest of the industry goes. The difference is, Sprint is 2+ years ahead of the other carriers for rolling out 4G, so they have more time to adjust for network loads and iron out any possible issues as they gather new customers.

Please shutup and stop trolling now, 3 pages worth of your blabbing is just flat annoying.


My fellow friend do you even know what we are talking about?? Sprint the last four years is loosing billions of dollars and millions of customers quarterly. They invest billions of dollars of building a WiMAX hotspots for their data services. The whole plan is taking years of development and tones of money and tones of R&D for new devices. Is not like you wearing a jean you do not like it and instantly go to the restroom to change clothes. Even Verizon's adoption of LTE is extremely difficult. CDMA and LTE is completelly different. An Antenna that supporting both LTE and CDMA is not even exist. Actually BlackBerry storm is from the few devices supporting both EVDO and UMTS.

Sprint is not 2+ years ahead of others offering 4G. First I said millions of times already that WiMAX is not 4G. Second you want to call it 4G there still NO actual phone supporting it. Second the current HSPA+ networks are way faster than Sprint WiMAX, T-Mobile USA for example is offering 20+Mbps speeds under their 3G network in many US states and third Verizon is will start rolling out their 4G LTE network latter this year.

So what 2+ years of ahead development and what 4G are you talking about?? loool

Please do your homework before you post just to argue with somebody...

My fellow friend do you even know what we are talking about?? Sprint the last four years is loosing billions of dollars and millions of customers quarterly. They invest billions of dollars of building a WiMAX hotspots for their data services. The whole plan is taking years of development and tones of money and tones of R&D for new devices. Is not like you wearing a jean you do not like it and instantly go to the restroom to change clothes. Even Verizon's adoption of LTE is extremely difficult. CDMA and LTE is completelly different. An Antenna that supporting both LTE and CDMA is not even exist. Actually BlackBerry storm is from the few devices supporting both EVDO and UMTS.

What has that got to do with anything? WiMAX stuff exists btw. There are a lot of ISPs in america that are WiMAX only and they're extending their coverage to more places.

Sprint and those companies (Clearwire is one of them) share hotspots and towers. It's not like Sprint is building tons of stuff just for themselves.

An Antenna that supporting both LTE and CDMA is not even exist.

You forgot to mention one key feature, LTE Advanced isn't even out yet. Ooops.

Sprint is not 2+ years ahead of others offering 4G. First I said millions of times already that WiMAX is not 4G. Second you want to call it 4G there still NO actual phone supporting it.

Oh yes there is. HTC Max 4g.

There are no phones supporting LTE Advanced either, want to argue about that now too?

So what 2+ years of ahead development and what 4G are you talking about??

LTE IS NOT 4G FOR MOTHER****INGS SAKE SO WHAT 4G ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

I honestly think Paris Hilton is less stupid and less thick-headed than you are. And that's saying a lot.

Edited by -Razorfold, Mar 22 2010, 10:31pm :

According to my Sprint tech guy Sprint has 100-120 mhz of bandwidth in most cities available for 4G. That means they can share 5 or 6 channels around to minimize slowdown. ATT only has 40 mhz available in most cities for 4G type service so they are gonna have the same problem they have now when they ever decide to roll it out.

nMIK-3 said,
Somebody please notify Sprint that WiMAX simply is NOT 4G enough with this joke already...

The Mobile WiMAX (IEEE 802.16e-2005) mobile wireless broadband access (MWBA) standard is sometimes branded 4G, and offers peak data rates of 128 Mbit/s downlink and 56 Mbit/s uplink over 20 MHz wide channels. The IEEE 802.16m evolution of 802.16e is under development, with the objective to fulfill the IMT-Advanced criteria of 1000 Mbit/s for stationary reception and 100 Mbit/s for mobile reception.[4]

WiMAX is one of the possible routes for 4g. The other is LTE.

/- Razorfold said,

The Mobile WiMAX (IEEE 802.16e-2005) mobile wireless broadband access (MWBA) standard is sometimes branded 4G, and offers peak data rates of 128 Mbit/s downlink and 56 Mbit/s uplink over 20 MHz wide channels. The IEEE 802.16m evolution of 802.16e is under development, with the objective to fulfill the IMT-Advanced criteria of 1000 Mbit/s for stationary reception and 100 Mbit/s for mobile reception.[4]

WiMAX is one of the possible routes for 4g. The other is LTE.

Nope it was. The only official recognizable 4G standard is LTE. Period.
WiMAX is more like WiFi with the ability to cover large cities.

nMIK-3 said,

Nope it was. The only official recognizable 4G standard is LTE. Period.
WiMAX is more like WiFi with the ability to cover large cities.

3GPP Release 10 isn't even finalized yet. So until it does, LTE is no more a standard than WiMAX is. Period.

Edited by -Razorfold, Mar 21 2010, 12:38am :

/- Razorfold said,

3GPP Release 10 isn't even finalized yet. So until it does, LTE is no more a standard than WiMAX is. Period.


If you say so. You can believe whatever you want is a free world after all. loool

For the record International Telecommunications Union (the guys who set the standards of the global Telecommunication solutions) have certified WiMAX as an official *3G* technology:
http://www.wirelessweek.com/Archives/2007/10/WiMAX-is-3G/

Second, in the very few other markets that they choose WiMAX as a wireless solution, like India, WiMAX is advertised as a 3G technology, like it should be. Only Sprint thinks and advertise WiMAX as 4G.

Of course in the rest world 4G=LTE.

nMIK-3 said,

If you say so. You can believe whatever you want is a free world after all. loool

How old are you? 5?

The current version of LTE doesn't meet ITU's standards for 4g. LTE Advanced (3GPP Release 10) is expected to meet it but that won't be finalized until 2010/2011.

Until then, LTE is no more of a 4g standard than WiMAX is.

Edited by -Razorfold, Mar 21 2010, 12:41am :

nMIK-3 said,
For the record International Telecommunications Union (the guys who set the standards of the global Telecommunication solutions) have certified WiMAX as an official *3G* technology:
http://www.wirelessweek.com/Archives/2007/10/WiMAX-is-3G/

Second, in the very few other markets that they choose WiMAX as a wireless solution, like India, WiMAX is advertised as a 3G technology, like it should be. Only Sprint thinks and advertise WiMAX as 4G.

Of course in the rest world 4G=LTE.

Good job in linking an article from 2007. Since then WiMAX has undergone several changes, including speed / bandwidth increases, and was submitted to the ITU for approval for 4g.

3GPP submitted their version which was LTE. At that time, neither WiMAX nor LTE met the standards for 4g evolution. LTE isn't expected to meet those until Release 10 is finalized.

So I'm going to repeat it for the third time now. LTE is NOT a standard. LTE Advanced is EXPECTED to become a standard.

Edited by -Razorfold, Mar 21 2010, 12:17am :

For the last time. WiMAX is not 4G. Is been certified as a 3G.
So in case you do not get it WiMAX = 3G.

LTE was, is and in your case will be the only 4G standard for cellular networks.

I told you before. No matter what you believe, I do not care what you believe WiMAX is not 4G. Never was and never will.

Friendly advice. Wikipedia is not always the best source of information.

nMIK-3 said,
For the last time. WiMAX is not 4G. Is been certified as a 3G.
So in case you do not get it WiMAX = 3G.

LTE was, is and in your case will be the only 4G standard for cellular networks.

I told you before. No matter what you believe, I do not care what you believe WiMAX is not 4G. Never was and never will.

Friendly advice. Wikipedia is not always the best source of information.

Now go read through my points all over again, and find where I said WiMAX is 4g. Oh that's right, I didn't. I said it was submitted as one of the contenders for 4g, which happenned in 2008. Your article was from 2007.

There's a difference there.

LTE isn't 4g either. LTE Advanced (Yes it's different) is expected to become 4g. As of right now there is no formal standard as to what 4G is, theres only a specification which contenders have to meet.

Friendly advice. Wikipedia isn't my only source of information and you need to learn how to read.

Edited by -Razorfold, Mar 21 2010, 2:05am :

/- Razorfold said,

Now go read through my points all over again, and find where I said WiMAX is 4g. Oh that's right, I didn't. I said it was submitted as one of the contenders for 4g, which happenned in 2008. Your article was from 2007.

There's a difference there.

LTE isn't 4g either. LTE Advanced (Yes it's different) is expected to become 4g. As of right now there is no formal standard as to what 4G is, theres only a specification which contenders have to meet.

Friendly advice. Wikipedia isn't my only source of information and you need to learn how to read.

When you understand that all this time you are arguing with yourself then come to discuss it. Look my original post just look at it I say NOTHING regarding LTE. I am saying that WiMAX is not 4G. As per my article. Google or Bing "WiMAX is not 4G" and you will get plenty of articles from 2007-2009 stating just that. Do not make me post them here. But please do me a favor and just stop posting just to argue with someone. Sit back and watch Sprint suffering (once again) from the WiMAX adaption loosing customers and revenues for another year while at the same time LTE dominating the world as the only 4G technology. Cheers

@Joshie loool mate

nMIK-3 said,

Nope it was. The only official recognizable 4G standard is LTE. Period.
WiMAX is more like WiFi with the ability to cover large cities.

LTE is forward compatible with 4G standards, but is not 4G.

nMIK-3 said,

When you understand that all this time you are arguing with yourself then come to discuss it. Look my original post just look at it I say NOTHING regarding LTE. I am saying that WiMAX is not 4G. As per my article. Google or Bing "WiMAX is not 4G" and you will get plenty of articles from 2007-2009 stating just that. Do not make me post them here. But please do me a favor and just stop posting just to argue with someone. Sit back and watch Sprint suffering (once again) from the WiMAX adaption loosing customers and revenues for another year while at the same time LTE dominating the world as the only 4G technology. Cheers

@Joshie loool mate

WiMax is 4G, with regards to Sprint/Nextel's choice of technologies. It is revolutionary compared to their 3G, hence it is 4G.
Touting "4G" as some global standard is rediculous.

And LTE is not 4G, Just like GSM was/is not 3G. UMTS is the closest anyone had to 3G, and even then, it wasn't 3G.

nMIK-3 said,

When you understand that all this time you are arguing with yourself then come to discuss it. Look my original post just look at it I say NOTHING regarding LTE. I am saying that WiMAX is not 4G. As per my article. Google or Bing "WiMAX is not 4G" and you will get plenty of articles from 2007-2009 stating just that. Do not make me post them here. But please do me a favor and just stop posting just to argue with someone. Sit back and watch Sprint suffering (once again) from the WiMAX adaption loosing customers and revenues for another year while at the same time LTE dominating the world as the only 4G technology. Cheers

@Joshie loool mate

Right, first thing. I never disagreed that WiMAX is not 4g, I just said it was submitted as one of the contenders for it. Second, you keep banging on about how LTE is 4g but like I and others have pointed out to you it isn't.

Read: http://www.telecomasia.net/content/lte-not-4g-yet . Oh but that's right you can't so I'm going to quote it and bold it for you:

LTE is sometimes called a 4G standard, which is actually not correct as it merely satisfies the 3GPP requirements for a 3G standard. In reality, international standardization bodies, such as 3GPP and ITU, have already set high-level requirements for 4G technologies, and those will be met by LTE-Advanced.

So you're the one arguing with yourself, not me.

As for sprint loosing money and LTE dominating the world? What crack do you smoke because that **** is so potent it has managed to teleport you into the future. Oh yeh that's right, LTE isn't even fully released yet.

Russia and Sprint use WiMAX. America is waiting till 2011 for LTE advanced to be finalized before rolling it out. Europe is rolling out LTE advanced in 2012.

So sorry I don't see LTE dominating the world at least for another 2 years. In that time Sprint can keep saying they have 4g because well its better than what other carriers have in America.

But please do me a favor and just stop posting just to argue with someone, and learn to read their posts before making yourself look like a bigger fool than you already are.

Edited by -Razorfold, Mar 21 2010, 5:02pm :

/- Razorfold said,

Right, first thing. I never disagreed that WiMAX is not 4g, I just said it was submitted as one of the contenders for it. Second, you keep banging on about how LTE is 4g but like I and others have pointed out to you it isn't.

Read: http://www.telecomasia.net/content/lte-not-4g-yet . Oh but that's right you can't so I'm going to quote it and bold it for you:

So you're the one arguing with yourself, not me.

As for sprint loosing money and LTE dominating the world? What crack do you smoke because that **** is so potent it has managed to teleport you into the future. Oh yeh that's right, LTE isn't even fully released yet.

Russia and Sprint use WiMAX. America is waiting till 2011 for LTE advanced to be finalized before rolling it out. Europe is rolling out LTE advanced in 2012.

So sorry I don't see LTE dominating the world at least for another 2 years. In that time Sprint can keep saying they have 4g because well its better than what other carriers have in America.

But please do me a favor and just stop posting just to argue with someone, and learn to read their posts before making yourself look like a bigger fool than you already are.

You are so funny dude... Right after my team lost in soccer I read your post here.
Thanks for making my day!

Simon said,
It's amazing how worked up people can get over such trivial things.

Nice fights like these aren't useless...readers can learn a lot. It is also useful for me to have something snippy to say to some people.

Regression_88 said,
WiMax is 4G, with regards to Sprint/Nextel's choice of technologies. It is revolutionary compared to their 3G, hence it is 4G.
Touting "4G" as some global standard is rediculous.

And LTE is not 4G, Just like GSM was/is not 3G. UMTS is the closest anyone had to 3G, and even then, it wasn't 3G.

For the history.

1G = Analog wireless phones. Usually the car-phones you use to see on 1980s Hollywood movies.
2G = GSM. Digital technology appears for the first time. At 2G, GSM was only able to do Voice and TEXT then WAP came and introduced the Mobile Internet. WAP charges are based on time connected online (like dial-up)
2.5G = GPRS this technology works on TOP of GSM brings many extra protocols and with it for the first time operators are able to charge by the receiving/sending data ammount.
2.75G = EDGE another technology that works on top of GSM is the evolution of GPRS. Higher speeds on 2G GSM data transfers is what EDGE is mostly known.
3G = UMTS or WCDMA no matter how you call it is the same thing. Is comes from the GSM Association and is the evolution of GSM. 3G is able to to offer breakthrough for its time speeds equal to 300+ kilobits. At the same time Video Call and 3G became synonyms and going hand to hand in Europe and the rest of the world. (For some reason that no one really knows, USA is probably the only market in the planet with 3G technologies but NO Video Calls.)
3.5G = HSDPA the technology almost every 3G network use in the planet today. Just like GPRS and EDGE came as an update to GSM, HSDPA is an update to the UMTS/WCDMA 3G networks. Currently it can offer 20++ Mbps speeds.
4G = LTE. LTE also came from GSM association. Is the evolution of UMTS/WCDMA and is mostly known for its very high speeds over 3G.
**like before LTE will see many updates in the near future. Updates that will use the 4.5G nickname.

Off course this is not everything. Besides the European GSM's Association standards for 2G, 3G and 4G we also have the American standards of CDMA and iDEN which are 2G technologies, EVDO as 3G etc. But since Verizon switch to LTE for their 4G services with the first commercial LTE network in America going live from them later this year. (AT&T and T-Mobile USA will follow little later). Sprint is now the only major company still supporting CDMA. If we can even consider the "bleeding from everywhere" Sprint a major player is more than clear that CDMA reached the end of the road.

WiMAX is not even a Cellular technology. For example it cannot even handle Voice Calls over cellular network. (I am not sure if it is able to handle it now in its latest version but I highly doubt it since is a WiFi evolution meaning is a pure data transfer technology and not a cellular technology) All Voice Calls over WiMAX are using VoIP protocol. Most of the companies supported WiMAX (on papers) from the beginning including giants like Nokia has now completely backed-out from the project.

Now if you want to characterize WiMAX as 4G and you hope it has any change of success, as I said before is a free world and anyone can believe whatever thinks is right. For the rest of the world LTE is the only 4G technology adapted everywhere around the world, including Europe, Asia, Middle East, Oceania, Japan and for the first time GSM's Association LTE is adapted from 3 out of 4 big players of the US market, that's Verizon, AT&t and T-Mobile. Most of the companies that dropped WiMAX support right before the standard was release, stated that WiMAX is dead as a cellular technology even before is born. However it is perfect to be used as a HUGE WiFi hotspot to cover large geographical areas.

Officially WiMAX got the title of 3G technology and this didn't came randomly. Even kids of the first grade can do the simple maths. If 3.5G/HSDPA is able to offer 20Mpbs+++ speeds (with up to 40Mbps in theory) the slower ~10Mbps WiMAX cannot be called 4G.

3.5G = HSDPA the technology almost every 3G network use in the planet today. Just like GPRS and EDGE came as an update to GSM, HSDPA is an update to the UMTS/WCDMA 3G networks. Currently it can offer 20++ Mbps speeds

Wrong. HSDPA supports maximum 14Mbps. HSPA+ supports upto 42Mbps. Two different things, but as you've proved numerous times you just like to generalize things into 1 name so.

Officially WiMAX got the title of 3G technology and this didn't came randomly. Even kids of the first grade can do the simple maths. If 3.5G/HSDPA is able to offer 20Mpbs+++ speeds (with up to 40Mbps in theory) the slower ~10Mbps WiMAX cannot be called 4G.

Officially LTE got the title of 3g. There is no branding of what is 4G yet because LTE-A still isn't out yet. LTE Advanced DOES NOT EQUAL LTE. LEARN TO GOD DAM READ

And btw, how far in the past do you live that you think that WiMAX can only sustain 10Mbps.

Wimax offers peak data rates of 128 Mbit/s downlink and 56 Mbit/s uplink over 20 MHz wide channels. The IEEE 802.16m evolution of 802.16e is under development, with the objective to fulfill the IMT-Advanced criteria of 1000 Mbit/s for stationary reception and 100 Mbit/s for mobile reception.

WiMAX is not even a Cellular technology. For example it cannot even handle Voice Calls over cellular network. (I am not sure if it is able to handle it now in its latest version but I highly doubt it since is a WiFi evolution meaning is a pure data transfer technology and not a cellular technology)

You do know that when you make voice calls over your 3g/hsdpa/hspa+ phone you're using the 2G GSM frequencies and technology right? You aren't using the 3g/hsdpa/hspa+ DATA technologies. 3g/2g can co-exist and you can use both at the same time.

You can do the exact same with WiMAX. Oh look the world's first 2g + WiMAX phone. Shocker. http://www.htc.com/www/product/max4g/overview.html

/- Razorfold said,
You do know that when you make voice calls over your 3g/hsdpa/hspa+ phone you're using the 2G GSM frequencies and technology right? You aren't using the 3g/hsdpa/hspa+ DATA technologies. 3g/2g can co-exist and you can use both at the same time.

You can do the exact same with WiMAX. Oh look the world's first 2g + WiMAX phone. Shocker. http://www.htc.com/www/product/max4g/overview.html

Thanks for pointing that out. I'll also point out that LTE is the same as WiMax in that it is a DATA technology and could also only support VoIP.

/- nMIK-3 said,
Sprint is now the only major company still supporting CDMA.

1. Verizon... Big Red... 3G... CDMA... is any of this ringing a bell to you? Verizon has continued to pump money into their 3G CDMA network, even though their about to start building out their LTE network. Don't be confused and think that because LTE is coming that CDMA is going away. All Verizon phones will use CDMA for voice, just like AT&T and TMO's phones will use GSM for Voice (Unless they go to VoIP).
2. WiMax is NOT a CDMA technology you tool, just like LTE isn't a GSM Technology.

/- Razorfold said,

Wrong. HSDPA supports maximum 14Mbps. HSPA+ supports upto 42Mbps. Two different things, but as you've proved numerous times you just like to generalize things into 1 name so.


Now you can't be serious. I just summarize in an article, all the history of wireless phones from 1980s till today, every single line is written by me and not wikipedia copy paste, I forgot to mention HSPA and instead of do something useful and contribute by adding that you hitting on me by saying I do not know what I am talking about?? Seriously dude you have some issues...

/- Razorfold said,
Wimax offers peak data rates of 128 Mbit/s downlink and 56 Mbit/s uplink over 20 MHz wide channels. The IEEE 802.16m evolution of 802.16e is under development, with the objective to fulfill the IMT-Advanced criteria of 1000 Mbit/s for stationary reception and 100 Mbit/s for mobile reception.

Yes I know dude. But you need to realize these stuff you copy and pasting are only happening on papers. In Sprint/real world this is not the case. Wake up please.

/- Razorfold said,

You do know that when you make voice calls over your 3g/hsdpa/hspa+ phone you're using the 2G GSM frequencies and technology right? You aren't using the 3g/hsdpa/hspa+ DATA technologies. 3g/2g can co-exist and you can use both at the same time.

You can do the exact same with WiMAX. Oh look the world's first 2g + WiMAX phone. Shocker. http://www.htc.com/www/product/max4g/overview.html

Just look 3 operator in UK. They started from scratch with only UMTS towers. UMTS is able to handle voicecalls, SMS and pretty much any other cellylar technology available with no need of GSM. This is what I am talking about. LTE works the same way. Meaning you can use LTE as the only solution to build a full cellylar network from scratch.
And no a phone that support both 2G GSM and 3G is not using both technologies at the same time. If your phone is connected to 3G all data including voice are going over the 3G network. This is why 3G calls have better quality over the GSM calls.

If you still do not get it is not my problem sorry.

vaximily said,

Thanks for pointing that out. I'll also point out that LTE is the same as WiMax in that it is a DATA technology and could also only support VoIP.


See my above post and you will get it too. Think of WiMAX as a WiFi hotspot because this is what it is. Is not a cellular technology. Lets say you are using Sprint and their CDMA is down while WiMAX is up. You can use your phone only to browse the web and nothing more. If it was LTE, it can handle everything as it is a full cellular network of its own. Like GSM, UMTS the same with LTE. You can build a network from the scratch and only use LTE for everything.

vaximily said,

1. Verizon... Big Red... 3G... CDMA... is any of this ringing a bell to you? Verizon has continued to pump money into their 3G CDMA network, even though their about to start building out their LTE network. Don't be confused and think that because LTE is coming that CDMA is going away. All Verizon phones will use CDMA for voice, just like AT&T and TMO's phones will use GSM for Voice (Unless they go to VoIP).
2. WiMax is NOT a CDMA technology you tool, just like LTE isn't a GSM Technology.

Nobody said that because Verizon choose LTE they will discontinue CDMA overnight. According to Verizon executives CDMA will stay in their network for at least 10 more years. My point is that CDMA investments and future development is practically dead and it is for a while now. Even if they come up for something lets say 5G no one will be interesting of using it. Even Verizon their biggest client moved to LTE. This is what I meant.
The rest you said regarding voice calls on LTE going over GSM is simply wrong. I am explaining to you that 3G can handle Voice. The same as LTE. Your 3G/GSM phone can support both networks and switch between them but it only use one at a time.

Edited by nMIK-3, Mar 22 2010, 9:27pm :

Now you can't be serious. I just summarize in an article, all the history of wireless phones from 1980s till today, every single line is written by me and not wikipedia copy paste, I forgot to mention HSPA and instead of do something useful and contribute by adding that you hitting on me by saying I do not know what I am talking about?? Seriously dude you have some issues...

I copy and paste points to prove you wrong, not to make up my own fantasy. You see I actually do the research before posting to make sure I know what I'm saying is right. You don't.

See my above post and you will get it too. Think of WiMAX as a WiFi hotspot because this is what it is. Is not a cellular technology. Lets say you are using Sprint and their CDMA is down while WiMAX is up. You can use your phone only to browse the web and nothing more. If it was LTE, it can handle everything as it is a full cellular network of its own. Like GSM, UMTS the same with LTE. You can build a network from the scratch and only use LTE for everything.

And what happens if LTE tower go down? Oh that's right you lose everything, all cellular and all data connections.

Yes I know dude. But you need to realize these stuff you copy and pasting are only happening on papers. In Sprint/real world this is not the case. Wake up please.

Ahhh, but in the real world those speed restrictions would apply to LTE too wouldn't they? Or is LTE a magical piece of technology that I can access from Pluto without any speed loss? Just because Sprint hasn't upgraded their towers to support those speeds, doesn't mean WiMAX is a slow piece of ****. I did mention PEAK DATA RATES.

And no a phone that support both 2G GSM and 3G is not using both technologies at the same time. If your phone is connected to 3G all data including voice are going over the 3G network. This is why 3G calls have better quality over the GSM calls.

Are you an idiot or something? 3g phones come with both 2g and 3g technologies in them. The reason being is simple:

1. If you're making a voice call, the voice goes over 2g.
2. If you're using the internet, the data goes over 3g/hsdpa/hspa+
3. If you're doing both, the voice goes over 2g, and data goes over 3g/hsdpa/hspa+

Your 3G/GSM phone can support both networks and switch between them but it only use one at a time.

No it can use BOTH at the same time. Which is why you're able to connect to the web and talk on the phone at the same time. CDMA cannot support both, hence you cannot talk and be on the web at the same time, one will disconnect.

UMTS/HSDPA/HSPA+ are DATA ONLY.

Edited by -Razorfold, Mar 22 2010, 10:41pm :

/- Razorfold said,

And what happens if LTE tower go down? Oh that's right you lose everything, all cellular and all data connections.

Dude are you smoking something?? I am telling you LTE is able to handle Voices just like GSM. What it is you do not understand??? If LTE goes down along with GSM you have no service. If LTE goes dow you use GSM. What it is that you do not get??

/- Razorfold said,
Ahhh, but in the real world those speed restrictions would apply to LTE too wouldn't they? Or is LTE a magical piece of technology that I can access from Pluto without any speed loss? Just because Sprint hasn't upgraded their towers to support those speeds, doesn't mean WiMAX is a slow piece of ****. I did mention PEAK DATA RATES.

LTE suffers slow speeds at the begging. First commercial network in Sweden also didn't had the expected results. But LTE already solve its issues in actual real time test. Google NTT Docomo and LTE and see what speeds were able to achieve in real time situations. You will be impressed. They even downloaded full 1080p movie over the air in seconds.


/- Razorfold said,
Are you an idiot or something? 3g phones come with both 2g and 3g technologies in them. The reason being is simple:

1. If you're making a voice call, the voice goes over 2g.
2. If you're using the internet, the data goes over 3g/hsdpa/hspa+
3. If you're doing both, the voice goes over 2g, and data goes over 3g/hsdpa/hspa+


What is your issue please tell me?? If you do not know the subject please do not discuss it!! Please.
1.NOOOOO if you are on 3G service and you are making a voice call your Voice call is routing over 3G. This is where you connected to. GSM has nothing to to with your voice call.
2.Yes
3.Noooo. On GSM if you are on the internet over EDGE and receive a voice call your data goes ON HOLD while you accept the voice call. 3G networks can handle both Voice Calls and Data an the same time. This is why you can talk and browse at the same time. Everything is handle by the 3G tower. Because you can do it does not mean that your voice is switching back to GSM.

Go to an area with only a 3G connection. Or even better DEACTIVATE the freaking GSM from your phone. Set it only to pickup 3G signal. That means your phone will deny the GSM connection. For your surprise you will find out that your phone can do everything including Voice Calls and Data at the same time. NOW GET OFF MY BACK

/- Razorfold said,
No it can use BOTH at the same time. Which is why you're able to connect to the web and talk on the phone at the same time. CDMA cannot support both, hence you cannot talk and be on the web at the same time, one will disconnect.

UMTS/HSDPA/HSPA+ are DATA ONLY.


WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.
As I said above. Do the test I told you above. Stop playing the smart guy if you do not have a clue.

Edited by nMIK-3, Mar 22 2010, 10:15pm :

Dude are you smoking something?? I am telling you LTE is able to handle Voices just like GSM. What it is you do not understand??? If LTE goes down along with GSM you have no service. If LTE goes dow you use GSM. What it is that you do not get??

What are you smoking since you just repeated what I said without realizing it?

LTE suffers slow speeds at the begging. First commercial network in Sweden also didn't had the expected results. But LTE already solve its issues in actual real time test. Google NTT Docomo and LTE and see what speeds were able to achieve in real time situations. You will be impressed. They even downloaded full 1080p movie over the air in seconds.

And accordingly, WiMAX at first was slow as well. Now it's faster, and the later version 802.16m is set to be even faster.

Please find me this video that shows them downloading 1080p movies from a COMMERICAL provider in seconds. But apart from that lets look at the maths:

NTT DoCoMo currently advertised theoretical speeds: 250Mbps = 31.25MBps peak download rate.
1080p movie lets say 2012: 15.32GB
Time to download at peak rate: 8mins.

Now in real world situations you'll never get a peak download rate of 31.25 unless you're plugged directly into the tower and nobody else is using it. So please show me this matter of seconds.

Go to an area with only a 3G connection. Or even better DEACTIVATE the freaking GSM from your phone. Set it only to pickup 3G signal. That means your phone will deny the GSM connection. For your surprise you will find out that your phone can do everything including Voice Calls and Data at the same time. NOW GET OFF MY BACK

I don't know of any network in this world . Also I cannot force my phone to use 3g only, it flat out refuses to work and picks up no signal.

The best I can force it to use is GSM + UMTS. So I cannot test your brilliant theory.

3.Noooo. On GSM if you are on the internet over EDGE and receive a voice call your data goes ON HOLD while you accept the voice call.

We aren't talking about EDGE or GPRS here.

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.
As I said above. Do the test I told you above. Stop playing the smart guy if you do not have a clue

I already said it can use both at the same time over 3g. And you're saying I'm wrong, b because 3g can handle both and then tell me to do a test that will just prove my point?

Doesn't make much sense does it?

But what ever. I'm done arguing with you because you really have very little clue on what you're talking about and instead just repeat what I say and then claim I'm wrong.

Edited by -Razorfold, Mar 22 2010, 11:45pm :

/- Razorfold said,

What are you smoking since you just repeated what I said without realizing it?

And accordingly, WiMAX at first was slow as well. Now it's faster, and the later version 802.16m is set to be even faster.

Please find me this video that shows them downloading 1080p movies from a COMMERICAL provider in seconds. But apart from that lets look at the maths:

NTT DoCoMo currently advertised theoretical speeds: 250Mbps = 31.25MBps peak download rate.
1080p movie lets say 2012: 15.32GB
Time to download at peak rate: 8mins.

Now in real world situations you'll never get a peak download rate of 31.25 unless you're plugged directly into the tower and nobody else is using it. So please show me this matter of seconds.

I don't know of any network in this world . Also I cannot force my phone to use 3g only, it flat out refuses to work and picks up no signal.

The best I can force it to use is GSM + UMTS. So I cannot test your brilliant theory.

We aren't talking about EDGE or GPRS here.

I already said it can use both at the same time over 3g. And you're saying I'm wrong, b because 3g can handle both and then tell me to do a test that will just prove my point?

Doesn't make much sense does it?

But what ever. I'm done arguing with you because you really have very little clue on what you're talking about and instead just repeat what I say and then claim I'm wrong.


Unless you are using a 1990s Nextel Walkie Talkie your phone has an option to switch between networks. It should be on dual mode now and it allows you to choose 2G/GSM only or 3G only.

Now if your knowledge of using your phone is the same as your mobile networks knowledge, then just forget about it. Do not force yourself its ok..

In the other hand if you end up manage doing what I am telling you, I am sure other readers already done it and got what I am talking about, you will realize that all this time you do not even know what you are talking about..

The rest. I am not even going to discuss it. I am tired of explaining to you. You can believe whatever you want. I was kind enough to provide you with plenty examples but it looks like the conversation is either too advance for you to follow or you are just stupid and this is how I am going to handle you from now on.

Meanwhile go get WiMAX and imagine it is 4G. Is your money and is your imagination. You decide how to use them both. Try to show off your new equipment and I assure you that you will get hit by people like me spotting out the reality. I know sometimes the reality hearts but you just have to get use to it.

Edited by nMIK-3, Mar 22 2010, 11:57pm :

Unless you are using a 1990s Nextel Walkie Talkie your phone has an option to switch between networks. It should be on dual mode now and it allows you to choose 2G/GSM only or 3G only. Now if your knowledge of using your phone is the same as your mobile networks knowledge, then just forget about it. Do not force yourself its ok.

Nope, HTC Imagio. Windows Phone 6.5, CID unlocked and using a custom ROM that allows me to access all bands.

My phone is a global phone, hence it access CDMA, GSM, UMTS frequencies and bands all at the same time. I can force it to use either Global (Both at the same time), CDMA only or GSM UMTS only.

If I put in my AT&T sim and disable the CDMA and GSM frequencies it picks up no signal. The only way to get a 3g signal and make calls is to enable both GSM and UMTS.

The rest. I am not even going to discuss it. I am tired of explaining to you. You can believe whatever you want. I was kind enough to provide you with plenty examples but it looks like the conversation is either too advance for you to follow or you are just stupid and this is how I am going to handle you from now on.

But good to see that when you can't prove me wrong, you'll resort to insults. Never fails to work. Like how I showed you with maths its impossible to download a 1080p movie in a matter of seconds with current LTE technology. But you obviously have access to technology from the future.

Meanwhile go get WiMAX and imagine it is 4G. Is your money and is your imagination. You decide how to use them both. Try to show off your new equipment and I assure you that you will get hit by people like me spotting out the reality. I know sometimes the reality hearts but you just have to get use to it.


I never said WiMAX is 4g, something you still haven't managed to understand even though I must have repeated it in every post of mine.

And I don't even use Sprint or WiMAX. So don't try and claim it's because I'm biased.

Go enjoy your LTE Advanced, oh wait that's right it doesn't come out till 2012. And as of yet there are no phones that support LTE-Basic (outside of Japan) let alone LTE-Advanced.

Edited by -Razorfold, Mar 23 2010, 12:40am :

Since you are playing "catch me if you can" I decided to reply to your last post.

/- Razorfold said,

We aren't talking about EDGE or GPRS here.

Maybe if you stop quoting only what you want, you will also stop generating unrealistic arguments. You told me 3G is used only for data and when on 3G you call is going over GSM. Speaking of EDGE/GPRS was in my example of how data works over GSM. The part you cut off continued and stated how 3G data and voice works.

And of course has nothing to do with what your idea of now GSM/UMTS networks is.

Nice try.

/- Razorfold said,
I already said it can use both at the same time over 3g. And you're saying I'm wrong, b because 3g can handle both and then tell me to do a test that will just prove my point?

Doesn't make much sense does it?


No you didn't.
What you said is that 3G supporting both at the same time not because 3G is able to handle it, but because your Internet connections is done by 3G while your Voice switch to GSM. This was your statement/argument.

This is what you said.

Now you learn that all GSM Association Standards are backward compatible and can stand for their own.

Interesting example is 3 Network in UK. They build their network from the scratch based on UMTS. Without the use of GSM at all.

Further research has proven me wrong on one point but for a reason.

My phone won't be able to make voice calls over 3g because AT&T has it blocked on their system. The phone itself is able to make voice calls over 3g only, but since the network blocks it it fails to connect.

Hence when I connect to the internet and make a voice call. The call goes over GSM, and the data goes over HSDPA.

So yes I was wrong on that point and I apologize, but I had no other way of testing it since the only two providers I have is AT&T and Verizon.

Interesting example is 3 Network in UK. They build their network from the scratch based on UMTS. Without the use of GSM at all.

3 UK uses GSM. Go look it up.

Now you learn that all GSM Association Standards are backward compatible and can stand for their own.

Never said they weren't / couldn't. So stop putting words into my mouth.

Edited by -Razorfold, Mar 23 2010, 12:55am :

/- Razorfold said,
Further research has proven me wrong on one point but for a reason.

My phone won't be able to make voice calls over 3g because AT&T has it blocked on their system. The phone itself is able to make voice calls over 3g only, but since the network blocks it it fails to connect.

Hence when I connect to the internet and make a voice call. The call goes over GSM, and the data goes over HSDPA.

So yes I was wrong on that point and I apologize, but I had no other way of testing it since the only two providers I have is AT&T and Verizon.

Thank God and honestly thank you for this post! Finally some progress in our discussion here.

I am not sure thought how this will work. As I already mention even if your phone supports both frequencies it only uses one at the time. Yes it can transfer calls and data from 3G to 2G or the opposite simultaneously but I doubt is possible to just use 3G for Internet and GSM for voice.

If that was the case then Voice Calls on AT&T would be great and all the current drop calls problems would not exist. All AT&T's drop call problems they suffering from, are related to their 3G Network. Their GSM network in most metropolitan areas is extremely reliable.

/- Razorfold said,

3 UK uses GSM. Go look it up.

3 UK started as a UMTS 3G network only and for a while it was like that.
I stated this example to proove my point that 3G/UMTS is a network of its own. Same with LTE.
I also know for sure that latter on 3 signed roaming agreements with other UK networks for GSM coverage. To be honest I am not sure if now they build their own GSM towers, personally I do not see the reason, but it has nothing to do with our conversation.

/- Razorfold said,

Never said they weren't / couldn't. So stop putting words into my mouth.

When I said that WiMAX is pure data network and cannot handle basic cellular funtions by its own you said the same apply with GSM/3G and that UMTS cannot handle Voice Calls and the same will apply for LTE. That data will go over LTE while GSM will be needed for voice.

These are your own words. Now that is clear that this is not the case, I really hope you understand what I meant by saying WiMAX is not a cellular standard (is more like WiFi) while LTE is.

When I said that WiMAX is pure data network and cannot handle basic cellular funtions by its own you said the same apply with GSM/3G and that UMTS cannot handle Voice Calls and the same will apply for LTE. That data will go over LTE while GSM will be needed for voice.

These are your own words. Now that is clear that this is not the case, I really hope you understand what I meant by saying WiMAX is not a cellular standard (is more like WiFi) while LTE is.

Vax said that not me. I know WiMAX is not a cellular standard and I never said it was.

My point was that neither WiMAX nor LTE as they stand today are 4g technologies.

LTE-Advanced (3GPP Release 10) is expected to become a 4g technology, but since it isn't out yet nobody can tell. I mean I'm sure it will. But to claim that LTE is a 4g technology is wrong, because it isn't. Same thing applies with WiMAX.

Brad Sams, Tom Warren and myself all got to use this Sprint 4G Overdrive while in Las vegas @ CES2010, and I must admit, it definitely makes 3G look like dial-up. Such a great little device! Doesn't require you to plug it into a wall or anything.

Bad thing is, the battery life.

Does 10 times faster means the latency is divided by 10 ?
I seriously doubt it, and to me it's at least as important as the download speed : What's the point of loading a webpage in 100ms if it takes 250ms to even start loading it (plus with that kind of 4G-> Wifi device it would be tempting to do a little online gaming on the go with your laptop).

Interesting. I often get 3 Mbps using MyWi from my iPhone and their disclaimer says 4G is 3-6 Mbps. How is that 10 times faster? Maybe it's 10x faster than Verizon

crazyfish said,
Interesting. I often get 3 Mbps using MyWi from my iPhone and their disclaimer says 4G is 3-6 Mbps. How is that 10 times faster? Maybe it's 10x faster than Verizon

Exactly the comment I was about to post. I love how advertisements can get away with out-right lies as long there is small text on the bottom of the screen stating the truth. I get an average of 1-1.5mbps on my iPhone w/ 4-5bar 3G on AT&T. The add states 3-6 mbps in the small text. Ummm... so even at 6 mbps top speed that is not 10 times faster. I guess if you have at least elementary math skills you are probably over-qualified to work for Sprint's marketing department.

Edited by Shadrack, Mar 20 2010, 7:32pm :

crazyfish said,
Interesting. I often get 3 Mbps using MyWi from my iPhone and their disclaimer says 4G is 3-6 Mbps. How is that 10 times faster? Maybe it's 10x faster than Verizon
"Based on download speed comparison of 3G's 600Kbps industry avg vs 4G's 6 Mbps industry avg." So they are saying on average it is 10x faster. But I agree, marketing BS!!

Edited by war, Mar 20 2010, 8:26pm :

war said,
"Based on download speed comparison of 3G's 600Kbps industry avg vs 4G's 6 Mbps industry avg." So they are saying on average it is 10x faster. But I agree, marketing BS!!

But it's industry average marketing BS! Thats at least 5.7x better than standard marketing BS!

war said,
"Based on download speed comparison of 3G's 600Kbps industry avg vs 4G's 6 Mbps industry avg." So they are saying on average it is 10x faster. But I agree, marketing BS!!

You are all missing a few big points.

1. Latency. Even if the theoretical throughput on your 3G is 3Mbps, the ping is so high it wouldn't do you much good to have that speed. WiMax is generally between 80 - 150 ping, depending on your location.
2. Potential throughput. Even the fastest 3G networks top out somewhere around 10mbps as THEORETICAL throughput (note, your AT&T and TMO connections haven't been upgraded to support anything close to that, so don't hold your breath). WiMax and LTE have something like 30-50+ mbps potential throughput, so as the networks get upgraded the speeds can go much higher.
3. Getting anything over about 1.2mbps is pretty unusual, for all of the 3G networks. If you're getting those speeds (consistently), feel special, because it's not the norm. WiMax provides a very consistent 4-6mbps to all users, regardless of location (partially because of lower network loads on the new technology, but also because of a more robust protocol stack that it all runs on).

pyehac said,
Make it compatible with T-mobile's 3G, and I'm sold.

Totally misses the point of 4G then doesn't it...

Let them come out with their own 3G hotspot...

xendrome said,
Totally misses the point of 4G then doesn't it...

Let them come out with their own 3G hotspot...

BAHAHAHAHAH. I literally LOL'd. T-Mobile... 3G... Hotspot... hahahahaha, what a joke.

From what dozens of TMO users in my area have said, their 3G data speed isn't much better than that of Nextel's data speed, which is just plain pathetic (although intentional on Nextel's part).

You know something. I am too addicted to computers anyway. I am glad I am one of the minority who don't use their phone for the internet. That way at least when I go out my addiction stops.

djpailo said,
You know something. I am too addicted to computers anyway. I am glad I am one of the minority who don't use their phone for the internet. That way at least when I go out my addiction stops.

Hahaha. Good point! Very insightful. When I go out, checking something on the Internet with my phone is as much as a nervous (and bad) habit as people lighting up cigarettes. Staying connected is good, but so is fresh air.

Shadrack said,
Hahaha. Good point! Very insightful. When I go out, checking something on the Internet with my phone is as much as a nervous (and bad) habit as people lighting up cigarettes. Staying connected is good, but so is fresh air.

While I must admit that I'm now connected 24/7 (as of November when I got my Samsung Moment with Android), the perfect solution is going camping almost every single weekend in an area over an hour from the closest cell signal, that way I just turn off the phone and forget about it all =)

Put an Apple logo on the Sprint 4G hotspot and people would run out to buy iPhones from AT&T and hotspot devices from Sprint and cost twice as much in the end

neufuse said,
Put an Apple logo on the Sprint 4G hotspot and people would run out to buy iPhones from AT&T and hotspot devices from Sprint and cost twice as much in the end

rofl

neufuse said,
Put an Apple logo on the Sprint 4G hotspot and people would run out to buy iPhones from AT&T and hotspot devices from Sprint and cost twice as much in the end
Sadly, you're spot on.

Hi. I am going to carry a cancer pack in my coat pocket close to my reproductive organs so that I can give my friend free internet access. I might die young, but at least my friend will think I am cool while I'm here.

revbenboss said,
Hi. I am going to carry a cancer pack in my coat pocket close to my reproductive organs so that I can give my friend free internet access. I might die young, but at least my friend will think I am cool while I'm here.

>_< There is so much fail in that post.

revbenboss said,
Hi. I am going to carry a cancer pack in my coat pocket close to my reproductive organs so that I can give my friend free internet access. I might die young, but at least my friend will think I am cool while I'm here.
Your computer mouse carries cancer too! Oh GOD!! Run!!

revbenboss said,
Hi. I am going to carry a cancer pack in my coat pocket close to my reproductive organs so that I can give my friend free internet access. I might die young, but at least my friend will think I am cool while I'm here.

Best get back to living in a bush then cause metropolitan areas will give you cancer and kill you.

revbenboss said,
Hi. I am going to carry a cancer pack in my coat pocket close to my reproductive organs so that I can give my friend free internet access. I might die young, but at least my friend will think I am cool while I'm here.
So one (or more) of the following may apply to you:
... you are very short and thus can't find a coat with pockets above hip level
... you lack fashion sense
... you don't have an iPhone (obvious since you said you'd give your friend Internet access)
... you are insecure and over-confident at the same time
... you don't know your friend that well
... you know very little about RF
... you fail at sarcasm

revbenboss said,
Hi. I am going to carry a cancer pack in my coat pocket close to my reproductive organs so that I can give my friend free internet access. I might die young, but at least my friend will think I am cool while I'm here.

I don't see why others don't see your brilliant genius.

revbenboss said,
Hi. I am going to carry a cancer pack in my coat pocket close to my reproductive organs so that I can give my friend free internet access. I might die young, but at least my friend will think I am cool while I'm here.

you need to get laid dude.

Not a bad burn, since the argument that 4G's availability is spotty is only valid if you acknowledge at&t's 3G is only superior in a handful of coastal metropolitan areas.

Shadrack said,

Hi!

http://www.imgftw.net/img/1259771916.PNG

And I live in New Mexico. Your comment just failed.


Er, actually my comment only fails if your score there is superior to the other networks. I'd quote my original post for you, but it's really not that far up to read. You probably don't even have to scroll to see it. Come back when you have screenshots from a Verizon/Sprint/T-Mobile user standing right next to you. <3