Things get worse for Nokia as European carriers lose interest

Nokia’s transition from Symbian to the Windows Phone 7 operating system can’t come quickly enough, as evidence mounts that European mobile operators are beginning to turn away from products that are no longer attractive to new phone buyers.

Europe has traditionally been a safe haven for Nokia sales, much needed too as the company has repeatedly failed to make any impact on the valuable US market.

Forbes.com reports that a research note from analysts MKM Partners indicates a steep decline in interest for Nokia’s Symbian range among European networks, citing as an example the claim that carriers are offering extreme discounts on Nokia’s seven month old N8 smartphone, in response to sales levels that have been “eroding rapidly” in recent weeks.

Contrasting this with strong launches of high-end Android devices, such as the Samsung Galaxy S2 and HTC Desire HD, and even good sales performance among mid-range Android phones, such as the Sony Ericsson Xperia Play, the author of the note points out the N8 can now be acquired in certain European markets on contract from just €15 per month.

The author further explains that the beautiful E7 QWERTY slider, which also features HDMI-out and an 8MP camera, has also failed to gain the support from operators that Nokia hoped it would.

The analyst doesn’t predict much good news ahead either, noting that smartphone sales are expected to fall by around 17% in Q2 2011 compared with Q1, but that this decline may be even steeper if carriers continue to be turned off by the Symbian devices that Nokia is still pushing to them. 

To add salt to the wound, he adds that Android’s projected increase in market share over the next quarter is “likely underestimated by the markets”, suggesting that Android may well grow even faster than anticipated.  Given that over 400,000 Android devices are activated every day, it looks like the growth of Google’s smartphone platform could become even more phenomenal.

Nokia’s first Windows Phone devices are expected before the end of this year, but all indications are that sales in significant volumes won’t really kick off until 2012.  That’s an awfully long time for Nokia to wait while its market share continues to fall, while carriers and distributors are turning their back on their products, and while consumers themselves are rapidly losing interest in what Nokia has to offer.  

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I always used to be a Nokia Man after their first series of Symbian phones I got bored and switched to a windows based HTC. I eventually came back with the N95 which was (apart from the flaws) possibly one of the best phones I owned. It's only problem was the lack of QWERTY keyboard. After buying into the Hype of the N97 and hoping nokia wouldn't repeat the mistakes of the past I was wrong. It sucked and nothing thye did improved on this.

I was about to switch again and then they came out with the N900. After nearly 2 years I can honestly say it's (still) great. It had all the power tools, the community and apart from lacking a bit of polish their was a LOT of potential for the device.

I lost any respect for Nokia when they pulled down their trousers and took a gigantic c**p on their N900 users by effectively abandoning the OS. So much potential and yet they let their customers down again. As a company they make fantastic (always flawed) hardware but they became complacent (as Apple is now) and stop innovating and eventually peddling the same crap model after model and when others finally caught up they had nothing left but their "fans" which they slowly ****ed off user after user.

It will be a long time before I get another Nokia.

Yep, the market leader is dead, despite outselling everybody else in the market place for phones... so everybody else must be deader than dead. Note that Nokia may have some problems in the smart phone sector, but seeing that is only 23% of the actual marketplace for mobile phones, it really doesn't matter.

nokia is too outdated.. even sony ericsson started using Android.. No sign of that for Nokia. My next phone will be an Android based phone for sure

asusp5ld2 said,
nokia is too outdated.. even sony ericsson started using Android.. No sign of that for Nokia. My next phone will be an Android based phone for sure

The technology for making phone calls was perfected a long time ago now, so the peddlers of phones resort to selling platforms to run applications on, which are themselves dated, as they were created in the past also.

Nokia is dead. Only Microsoft will save them.

I dumped Nokia years ago. The 33XX was, IMO the last time they had a really solid phone. Symbian blows.

I've been on the Nokia boat since 1999, when I was a kid. My last Nokia phone is the N900, which had a huge potential, but the support for this device has failed badly. My Samsung Galaxy S2 is on it's way; as soon as I get this baby I'll dump Nokia for good.

The only thing I'll probably miss is the shock resistance of Nokia. You can drop any Nokia phone 1000 times and chances are that the device will still work.

Symbian is now defunct essentially. Any knowledgeable customer wouldn't put a foot near such devices, no doubt retailers wouldn't want to be accused of offloading such devices either.

heres an idea... ive seen the n8 run on android before
if they can do the same thing with windows 7 , that would be a sure way to shift sales of the n8 ... an official rom flash to swap the OS on the n8

the problem goes beyond mobile devices.. its everywhere.. even beyond technology, because everything lacks globalization - there shlouldnt be Linux, Windows and Mac; Supra, Nike and Adidas; Sony Ericsson, NOKIA and Samsung..

everything should be unified in one - one for each type of product, this way no one will be losing

its just a matter of time stupid people realize that things shouldnt be divided, even political borders should fall, as well as this plague called religion, which is massively dividing people - islam is used to manipulate the people there to commit these suicidal acts, as for christianity - its used to manipulate people to sit on their asses and take it all like stupid sheep


there should me mass globalization for all and everything and no problems, even insignificant like this one or the OS wars.. or browser wars will ever exist

allwynd said,
the problem goes beyond mobile devices.. its everywhere.. even beyond technology, because everything lacks globalization - there shlouldnt be Linux, Windows and Mac; Supra, Nike and Adidas; Sony Ericsson, NOKIA and Samsung..

everything should be unified in one - one for each type of product, this way no one will be losing

its just a matter of time stupid people realize that things shouldnt be divided, even political borders should fall, as well as this plague called religion, which is massively dividing people - islam is used to manipulate the people there to commit these suicidal acts, as for christianity - its used to manipulate people to sit on their asses and take it all like stupid sheep


there should me mass globalization for all and everything and no problems, even insignificant like this one or the OS wars.. or browser wars will ever exist

Without competition, prices would be enormous, and we would only get what they want us to.. Competition is mandatory for progress! Rule # 1

allwynd said,
the problem goes beyond mobile devices.. its everywhere.. even beyond technology, because everything lacks globalization - there shlouldnt be Linux, Windows and Mac; Supra, Nike and Adidas; Sony Ericsson, NOKIA and Samsung..

everything should be unified in one - one for each type of product, this way no one will be losing

its just a matter of time stupid people realize that things shouldnt be divided, even political borders should fall, as well as this plague called religion, which is massively dividing people - islam is used to manipulate the people there to commit these suicidal acts, as for christianity - its used to manipulate people to sit on their asses and take it all like stupid sheep


there should me mass globalization for all and everything and no problems, even insignificant like this one or the OS wars.. or browser wars will ever exist

And the only thing on TV would be the daily address of our benevolent and glorious chairman of the united workers party

allwynd said,
... everything should be unified in one - one for each type of product, this way no one will be losing...

No competition equals no reason to innovate. Everyone loses.

We'd still be using Internet Explorer 6 were it not for competing browsers being introduced for example.

allwynd said,
the problem goes beyond mobile devices.. its everywhere.. even beyond technology, because everything lacks globalization - there shlouldnt be Linux, Windows and Mac; Supra, Nike and Adidas; Sony Ericsson, NOKIA and Samsung..

everything should be unified in one - one for each type of product, this way no one will be losing

its just a matter of time stupid people realize that things shouldnt be divided, even political borders should fall, as well as this plague called religion, which is massively dividing people - islam is used to manipulate the people there to commit these suicidal acts, as for christianity - its used to manipulate people to sit on their asses and take it all like stupid sheep


there should me mass globalization for all and everything and no problems, even insignificant like this one or the OS wars.. or browser wars will ever exist

Globalization and your version of Communism don't mix too well

z0phi3l said,

Globalization and your version of Communism don't mix too well

communism was a pathetic attempt for globalization that made people suffer more than benefit from it.. ure dumb

It's got a point, Nokia were good in the day. But now they are behind, Symbian was quite a bad OS. The Ovi Store was just a load of crud, and the OS was just clutter.

If they want to stay up, they need to use the popular OS's like Android and WP7. That's why makers like HTC are doing so well.

TechDudeGeorge said,
It's got a point, Nokia were good in the day. But now they are behind, Symbian was quite a bad OS. The Ovi Store was just a load of crud, and the OS was just clutter.

If they want to stay up, they need to use the popular OS's like Android and WP7. That's why makers like HTC are doing so well.


And that is what they are going to do. The question is if they're going to be too late to the already tough game.

TechDudeGeorge said,

If they want to stay up, they need to use the popular OS's like Android and WP7. That's why makers like HTC are doing so well.

Except that WM7 isn't popular by all accounts. If Nokia had gone with a mature, popular, open, free, and secure OS like android, then it might have stood a chance, but going with WM7 when it's still unproven is just corporate suicide.

Flawed said,

Except that WM7 isn't popular by all accounts. If Nokia had gone with a mature, popular, open, free, and secure OS like android, then it might have stood a chance, but going with WM7 when it's still unproven is just corporate suicide.

lol, yea android is so much better then WP7....Like nokia wants to seperately update each phone or just 1 OS they barely have to worry about, which comes from a company thats been in the OS market since the first IBM P.C. Which has enough experience on tons of mobile devices.

Yet they still have the advantage android has... Nokia can change the OS unlike its competitors which can only ask for functionality and/or features.

Flawed said,

Except that WM7 isn't popular by all accounts. If Nokia had gone with a mature, popular, open, free, and secure OS like android, then it might have stood a chance, but going with WM7 when it's still unproven is just corporate suicide.

Mature - more like beta
Popular - yes
Open - google's stuff is not as open as you think
Free - there's no such thing as a free lunch
Secure - hahahaha

Your brain is flawed. Pun indended.

It includes phones, tablets and all the other devices that are powered by Android, from landline handsets to Archos-style handheld PMPs. However, that figure also includes 'reactivations' of handsets that have already been purchased, so it's not necessarily true to assume that 400,000 'activations' a day is the same as 400,000 new Android devices sold every day.

Still, it's an enormous number - in four days, Google activated as many Android devices as Microsoft was able to sell Windows Phones in three months. Certainly puts into perspective the scale of the mountain that Microsoft and Nokia have to climb - and every day that passes while Microsoft lags behind its competitors with a feature-lacking OS, and while Nokia is idly peddling its long-in-the-tooth Symbian wares, is another day that the task gets even harder for them both.

gcaw said,
It includes phones, tablets and all the other devices that are powered by Android, from landline handsets to Archos-style handheld PMPs. However, that figure also includes 'reactivations' of handsets that have already been purchased, so it's not necessarily true to assume that 400,000 'activations' a day is the same as 400,000 new Android devices sold every day.

Still, it's an enormous number - in four days, Google activated as many Android devices as Microsoft was able to sell Windows Phones in three months. Certainly puts into perspective the scale of the mountain that Microsoft and Nokia have to climb - and every day that passes while Microsoft lags behind its competitors with a feature-lacking OS, and while Nokia is idly peddling its long-in-the-tooth Symbian wares, is another day that the task gets even harder for them both.

I thought Google said that the "activations" figure IS just new devices? http://architects.dzone.com/dose/dzone-daily-dose-93

Google has certainly made noises in that respect in the past (and so has Apple for that matter), but I think the fact that they continue to refer to x hundred thousand "activations" rather than "new device sales" suggests that there's almost certainly some fudging of figures by both Google and Apple.

For example, while both camps unequivocally claim that their figures exclude "upgrade" activations, they don't explicitly exclude things like devices that are replaced under warranty or whether devices that are returned and refunded are then substracted from the total - which again leaves plenty of room to massage the figures a bit.

The point to take away from this is that you can't directly correlate the "activations" figure with the number of devices currently in active use.

What is reactivation?

gcaw said,
It includes phones, tablets and all the other devices that are powered by Android, from landline handsets to Archos-style handheld PMPs. However, that figure also includes 'reactivations' of handsets that have already been purchased, so it's not necessarily true to assume that 400,000 'activations' a day is the same as 400,000 new Android devices sold every day.

Still, it's an enormous number - in four days, Google activated as many Android devices as Microsoft was able to sell Windows Phones in three months. Certainly puts into perspective the scale of the mountain that Microsoft and Nokia have to climb - and every day that passes while Microsoft lags behind its competitors with a feature-lacking OS, and while Nokia is idly peddling its long-in-the-tooth Symbian wares, is another day that the task gets even harder for them both.

I used to like and support Nokia until they annoyed me by coming out with disappointing products time after time.

I wonder if WP7 on Nokia phones would be able to save them considering it is still a maturing platform with a weaker app market than iOS and Android. Going with Android would have been a safer bet but knowing Nokia, they would not like their phones being rooted/modified.

This article summed it up pretty well. Pretty much no one I know is interested in getting a new Nokia phone unless they are on a budget or want a free phone with a contract.

one of the reasons i got my wife to get a htc phone rather than a nokia as they just keep pushing the old flogged symbian

They should have noticed it years ago with the slow and boring symbian os. They make good phones, but the OS was old news.

Wan said,
They should have noticed it years ago with the slow and boring symbian os. They make good phones, but the OS was old news.

symbian is quite perfect for a phone, good for a lowend smartphone
i'm using now an e52 and when it will die i'll really miss all that phonephone things like the weight, the battery, the smoothness, the durable design with a normal non fragile screen, the form factor that fulltouch can't use, the fast search contact, the ability to automatically read sms when i'm driving, access a lot of functionality pressing only a key without even needing to watch the screen
hell it's perfect from the phone point of view!
addittionally you have gps turn by turn navigation, wifi to use as a mediaserver for on the road sharing too
and all this for 200€ without contract or extra taxes

it was perfect until the market shifted from perfect phone with advanced features to big screens that accidentally can be used to make a call
and yes, i know that sometime the submenus are a little complicated and confusing

fehu said,

symbian is quite perfect for a phone, good for a lowend smartphone
i'm using now an e52 and when it will die i'll really miss all that phonephone things like the weight, the battery, the smoothness, the durable design with a normal non fragile screen, the form factor that fulltouch can't use, the fast search contact, the ability to automatically read sms when i'm driving, access a lot of functionality pressing only a key without even needing to watch the screen
hell it's perfect from the phone point of view!
addittionally you have gps turn by turn navigation, wifi to use as a mediaserver for on the road sharing too
and all this for 200€ without contract or extra taxes

it was perfect until the market shifted from perfect phone with advanced features to big screens that accidentally can be used to make a call
and yes, i know that sometime the submenus are a little complicated and confusing

Seems like you've never used a smartphone, or at least a decent one. I've had several of these so called (by you) "perfect" Nokias. The problem is, they aren't so perfect. The OS itself is slow and sluggish which in overall makes a bad experience. I love the smoothnes of WP7 and if you know how to lock the phone you won't accidentally call someone (by this logic even keys can be pressed though so I don't know what you're smoking). Oh and I love my HD screen... enjoy your tiny one.

Seriously, you're like my father... even calling digital decoders worse than analog because he isn't used to the new remote. You should embrace new and better technology.

wp7 android and ios are fast, symbian is not sluggish
what was pointing is that modern smartphone concentrate too much on the smart and little on the phone
you can have a screen bigger than 4", but what if i need a phone?
a phone must be comfortable to write on, perfect reception, size comfortable, weighht comfortable, days long battery, ui and application optimized for consulting sms contacts and making calls
all the others are good and sometime usefull things, but if you miss the above basic thing it's a low quality phone glued to maybe an excellent device

people until now needed a phone, now on want to play with angry bird because want a little toy or need something else
and saddly i've seen a lot f my friends use a normal phone to make calls and a smartphone to something else
it's the marked that shifted, differently symbian wold still be one of the most interesting os

(sorry if it's hard to read, but english is not my language)

that's whole point, smart is what drives the sales, Nokia forgot about inventions and moving forward and rest their heads on 'phone' part ... Nokia's phone were not bad (mostly) but the problem is they were just phones and price for Android smartphone is same or even lower compared to Nokia one.

Don't know about you but myself prefer having smart+phone cheaper than just a phone

SHADOW-XIII said,

Don't know about you but myself prefer having smart+phone cheaper than just a phone

all started from the "symbian is ugly this is the reason nokia has problems"
actually my phone its a perfect phone, has a very good gps, has wifi and installable applications, for the same price i can only get a corby, i badly want an android but prefer nokia
there's still a market segment for symbian that need symbian and i'm the demostration

Again with this "symbian is sluggish" thing?! How many symbian phones have you used? There are tons of different s60 phones out there with different cpus.

S60V3 phones were slow but the latest ones with 600 MHz ARM11 cpus are pretty fast.
S60V5 (symbian^1) phones are generally slow. I concur.
Symbian^3 phones might have a 680 MHz ARM11 cpu, but thanks to BCM2727 multimedia chip and full hardware acceleration, are smooth and responsive.

SHADOW-XIII said,
that's whole point, smart is what drives the sales, Nokia forgot about inventions and moving forward and rest their heads on 'phone' part ... Nokia's phone were not bad (mostly) but the problem is they were just phones and price for Android smartphone is same or even lower compared to Nokia one.

Don't know about you but myself prefer having smart+phone cheaper than just a phone


I will be pretty happy replacing my Samsung Galaxy S with a Nokia branded WP smartphone by years end thanks to the PHONE part alone.